Rice will help, but how much?

by BigBlueShoe on Nov 13, 2007 11:49 AM EST in Analysis Comment 6 comments

A regular contributor over at Mile High Report, styg50, has provided some good commentary on Simeon Rice in the comments here. Quote below, styg50 addresses whether or not Simeon is a "problem player":

I agree that "problem players" are all almost universally on bad teams. But it is still their choice to be a problem. The players have agents, a union, and their own common sense to help them make the proper decisions about when and where they play, and what kind of risks they are willing to take, with their mouths or with their contracts. If you are on a bad team there are perfectly good remedies and situations, and to Simeon's credit he actually created a better remedy than already existed by forfeiting part of his guaranteed signing bonus, after Denver signed some new young DEs.

But what does it say about a "problem player" who has no driving force within them to be independently good, regardless of what others are doing? In football I would say that it is a strong indicator that they have deeper concerns then their job (which may or may not be ok), and at worst it would indicate that they are second-handed psychologies. I would classify TO as a second-hand life, living more through how he is perceived than who he thinks he is. But he can change. Moss can change. They may already have. The test isn't when they are succeeding, but when the pressure is back on.

I don't know what to make of Rice. But I do know it will be real easy to find out. If he can produce and be effective for IND, than he isn't a liar. You need to listen closely if he talks about his injury and his performance (or lack thereof). And then watch.

I stand by my assessment that the Colts do not want to be the best friend of Rice, but merely a (hopefully temporary) employer. He says he was humbled by going to waivers. I don't believe him. He said he was humbled by being cut by TB too, and eventually he got over it, if he was ever humbled at all.

Thanks for the POV, styg50. Much appreciated. Your assessment of TO is spot on as well.

One thing that's consistent about Bill Polian and Tony Dungy is they typically do not bring in "problem players." Dungy loves Simeon, and Simeon loved playing for Dungy. I don't think Simeon fit the defensive scheme Denver was running, which, in my opinion, is an old and out-of-date system. Denver's system, designed by former-Dolphin defensive coordinator Jim Bates, relies on big, fat, slow DTs to take on two or more blockers and quick, fast, and tall DEs to shoot upfield. It requires heavy d-line rotation, but QBs like Manning, Brady, and Palmer kill these defenses because they simply don't allow you to substitute. That's no knock against Denver or its fans. I'm just not a fan of that system, which very few teams use now. Also, Denver needed Simeon to be a fulltime player, which he isn't anymore. Polian even said that on his radio show.

Simeon was built and bred to play DE in a Tampa 2. Any other defense and he is just a waste of a roster space. In Indy, I think he'll get used as a situational rusher. He's older now, and he's recovering form injury himself. Don't be surprised to see Josh Thomas start and have Simeon take Thomas' place on third down. Or, we could see Simeon on third down and long playing some DT in place of Ed Johnson. All in all, it's a good move, especially if Dwight is down for a month or so. The defense might have to carry this team for a while as players like Harrison and Clark heal up.

Imagine that: The defense carrying this team during the regular season. My how things change so quickly.

0 recs | Comment 6 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Do you

have any young guys who could be starting in Freeney's place? They would be the one's who could be hurt the most if this signing goes south.

Josh Thomas?

I would say the defense is already carrying the team, they only allowed SD 9 offensive points, and prevented the blowout that the turnovers should have created.

by styg50 on Nov 13, 2007 12:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Thomas

has nowhere close to Freeney's pass rushing ability. He's more of a run stopper (compared to the other Colts DEs, he's still a fast medium-sized DE). Thomas on run downs and Rice on passing downs should be a decent fill-in.

I would like to see Mathis get a shot rushing from the blind side. Some of his success is from facing bigger slower RTs and Freeney drawing the extra help, but he has been a great pass rusher since he made his way into the lineup. He can probably get better pressure than Thomas or Simeon can at this point in Rice's career.

by shake n bake on Nov 13, 2007 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mathis...

probably won't switch sides. Left tackles are too big and quick for him. It's the premier position on the O-line so you need a top pass rusher to get pressure from that side. I would rather Mathis went to OLB on that side and Thomas did the DE there. That would put pressure on and keep the run shut down on the right as well.

by will on Nov 13, 2007 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately...

No. Most of our draft picks have been used to strengthen the interior of the defensive line. The only young guy is Keyunta Dawson. He was a 7th rounder that I unfortunately don't have much information about.

Jeff Charleston is listed as Mathis' backup, but I don't know much about him either.

I was actually thinking that when Freeney went down, why haven't we worked on DE depth? Most of the DE's we draft end up playing tackle in our system.

One option is to start Ed Johnson and Dawson at tackle, and put Brock at DE like we used to. We can move him inside on passing situations and have Rice play the DE spot.

by the21eraser on Nov 13, 2007 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That would work too

except Dawson left the Chargers game injured.

by shake n bake on Nov 13, 2007 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rice In Denver...

If anything, Denver wanted Rice to be a part-time player while Simeon clamored for more PT. Rice didn't like the fact that the Broncos were featuring the rookies(Moss and Crowder) and knew his playing time would decrease. I agree he wan't a good fit, and the Broncos hoped he would be a good mentor for the younger D-Ends. Plan failed.

That said, I tend to agree with you about the core of Bates system, though as he has done in other stops he is creating a hybrid based on the current and future roster. The mistake the Broncos made early in the season was to continue and feature the linebackers as the force of the front 7. That was the case when Al Wilson, Ian Gold and John Mobley/D.J. Williams were in their prime, but with Wilson gone, Williams learning a new spot and Gold a shell of himself, the talent on D simply isn't at linebacker. The Broncos have changed that up, featuring more 8 man fronts and allowing the D-line to attack more.

It has been better, if you really study the tape, and came together a bit last week in K.C., a tough place to play no matter how bad the Chiefs offense is....

TSG -- MileHighReport.com

by John Bena on Nov 13, 2007 1:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs