Vince Young

by Navin R. Johnson on Aug 3, 2007 10:14 AM EDT Comment 24 comments

Let me get my allegiances out of the way. I am a Colts fan. I am also a fan of the University of Texas and, thus, Vince Young. As far as this particular incident goes, I have mixed emotions. He stuck up for his receiver after a dirty hit. He is also the quarterback and leader of the team and is expected to stay cool in situations like this. What I find astonishing is that there have now been three separate mentions of what happened in Titans' camp. I don't think this event warrants VY being labeled as a "very dumb man" or a "silly little over-rated dumbass" or for his class to be questioned. I honestly feel like there has been more coverage of this little skirmish than there has been of the training camp of the Colts. This is not a big deal.

I understand that many of you feel that Vince Young is not that great or overrated or (insert accuracy statistic here). And that's fine. I've been there, saying the exact same things when this same guy couldn't complete a pass. I vividly remember calling for his benching in favor of a guy named Chance Mock. Ever heard of him? There's a reason for that. But at the time he was better than Vince Young.

VY will never be the passer Peyton is. There's a very good chance he will never be the quarterback Peyton is because, well Peyton is damn good. Personally, I believe he has a chance to revolutionize not only the position, but the game. His rookie year only scratched the surface of what he is capable of.

My opinions aside, it seems that many on this site seem to have a personal vendetta against him. Why is this? I fail to see what Vince Young has done to personally injure the Indianapolis fan base. You think he's overrated? Fine, make your point and move on. Honestly, what makes you hate him so much that?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors.

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because he's the opposite of

Jesus in cleats Manning, thats why.

BBS hates all qb's who are extremely athletic (unlike Manning) and aren't good pocket passers (unlike Manning). He's also a Vick basher, well before that became popular.

by Terry on Aug 3, 2007 10:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

WHAT?

Ok, this is just blatantly false. I have absolutely nothing against athletic QBs. If a guy can run and elude rushers, that's great. It's a nice bonus. However, if a QB cannot make a 15 yard out route pass on a frozen rope (one of the most difficult passes to make), then he is garbage. I don't care if the guy can run all over the field like Gayle Sayers.

QBs throw the football.

And if your QB can't throw accurately from the pocket, he's garbage. He's fools gold. Guys like Vick, Plummer, and Vince Young are very comfortable throwing on the run. All stink throwing from the pocket. Between the three of them, Plummer was the better QB.

That's saying something.

Athletic guys like McNabb developed into great QBs by learning how to throw from the pocket. If your QB can't do that, then he should get dumped. Elusiveness and running ability are great bonuses (look at Steve Young), but if the guy can't throw in from the pocket, he's a worthless piece of crap who is simply eating up cap space. He might win you some regular season games, and maybe a playoff game.

He'll never help you win it all, and that is what your team should always strive for. Anything less is cheating fans.

Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Aug 3, 2007 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Give it time

So, let me get this straight. You have made the judgement that Vince Young is a "worthless piece of crap" after 11 games?! That seems like a rather hasty judgement to me. This guy hasn't even had a training camp as the starter. Peyton completed 56.7% of his passes his first season. Was he a worthless piece of crap at that point?

by Navin R. Johnson on Aug 3, 2007 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is a bit hasty ...

but it is his opinion ... and frankly, scrambling quarterbacks don't have a great history in the league (unless your name is Steve Young).

Somehow, I don't think they're related.

by PaytonMenning on Aug 3, 2007 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree BBS

by Terry on Aug 3, 2007 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

vick and young

well they go on about vick and young 'revolutionizing ' the qb position... well vick will be doing it from a jail cell, and Young by throwing hits at his team mates.. i think i prefer the classic passer in that case.

by bluegirl on Aug 3, 2007 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Vick vs. Young

How does what Vick does impact Vince Young? They are completely different players, and completely different people. They are both black, athletic quarterbacks and that is where the comparison SHOULD end. Please don't lump them together.

by Navin R. Johnson on Aug 3, 2007 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't have anything against Vince Young

I'm just staunch in my belief that the mobile QB who wins numerous games with his arm AND legs in college does not transfer successfully over to the NFL over time. Yes, for a season or two - sometimes even three - he can dupe the league, like Vick, VY and Cunningham all were able to do. But with enough time, defensive coordinators will figure out a way to negate that QB's use of his legs. Then, they have to rely on their arm. Cunningham proved he could do it, when surrounded by weapons. Vick couldn't, partly because he's inaccurate, partly because of a dreadful WR corps. VY this year will have to prove he can be accurate, because he's lost most of his offensive arsenal.

I don't hate VY, I just don't understand why every time a QB who can pick up first downs with his feet enters the league everyone thinks he will "revolutionize" the position. If that were true, Vick would have done it already. He was infinitely more talented than VY.

by BSanders37 on Aug 3, 2007 1:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

for once we agree

there is no question that a qb must be able to pass the ball from the pocket to be good, no question. Now you can be both a running qb and pocket qb like Steve Young, but throwing from the pocket successfully is the number one trait all really good qbs must possess.

If Young never develops this skill, then he'll be another Vick, however, I do think he has more talent thrwoing the ball from the pocket than Vick.

by Terry on Aug 3, 2007 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough

I will grant you that Vince still has plenty to prove in this league. He is, in fact, a second year player. I don't want to put him in the HOF just yet - there is plenty of improvement needed.

I will also grant you that Vick is a better ATHLETE than VY is. I don't think that is in question. But in many cases (especially this one) great athletes do not make great football players. I don't know how many times I have seen Vick bounce around behind the LOS trying to buy time because he has yet to make a decision after looking downfield for a good 35 seconds and turn right into the arms of an oncoming DT. I think pocket awareness and field vision is what seperates the two. In my estimation, Vince is a much better FOOTBALL PLAYER than Vick could ever hope to be.

Regardless, Vick's failures or whatever anyone has done in the past has no bearing on the present(No I'm not Mark McGuire). The fact that people were wrong about Vick does not prove that they are wrong about VY.

by Navin R. Johnson on Aug 3, 2007 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My god...

Not another VY debate. He is unproven... there is nothing to debate. Come back after the season and we'll talk.

The bottom line is, he should be applauded for standing up for his teammate, and cut for trying to punch his other teammate in the helmet with his throwing hand. If VY is a "leader" like everyone says, then you lead by example. You keep your cool and address the issue. I bet if he had just said something to Jeff Fisher, that DB would be looking for work today. Instead it's an international incident and reflects badly upon the Titans.

by the21eraser on Aug 3, 2007 3:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Intent

My intent was not to create "another VY debate". I was simply trying to figure out why there is such a passionate dislike of him among you when he has done nothing of consequence to the Colts or the fans. I guess the only conclusion I can draw is that because of Peyton, you are fundamentaly oposed to the dual threat QB.

OK that is all I wanted. And if you don't want me to defend him, stop attacking him. Fair enough? He is unproven. Give him a chance to prove himself.

by Navin R. Johnson on Aug 3, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do not anger VY

For those of you who have fundamental disagreements with marv is open, I can tell you that his opinion is an educated one as opposed to that of your own.

Yesterday's skirmish is nothing out of the norm for VY. It's a big part of what has and will make him so successful. You see, VY is the ultimate leadrer and competitor. A lot of atheletes say that. A lot of people say that about atheletes. Never has there been a more ruthless competitor than Vince Young. He wants to beat you a LOT worse than you want to beat him. He instinctively knows where your weaknesses lie, and will exploit them unmercifully. The LAST thing you want to do is anger him. Ask the sophmore DB at UT that VY clocked during summer 7 on 7 drills after an interception and subsequent trash talking. Ask the defensive lineman from last years rookie camp that VY body slammed. Vince is simply being Vince. He does not like to lose, even a little bit. He does not ask for the reigns. He demands them.

VY is a transcendent player that only comes along a few times per generation. I don't think Nickey will be throwing those cheap shots any more during this camp. Mission accomlished VY.

Manning would be wise to make hay while the sun is shining and VY is still inexperienced. The clock is ticking.....and VY is coming....

by HookEm10 on Aug 3, 2007 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Stop posting.

If VY sees this, he might eat your soul.

by PaytonMenning on Aug 3, 2007 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay...

There's really no need for a pithy response to that argument. Just put his name on the NFL MVP trophy and hand him the keys to the AFC South. You've convinced me. Consider me now educated.

by BSanders37 on Aug 3, 2007 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sooooooooooo

Question for HookEm10 and Terry:

Which QB is unquestionably, unequivocally and undeniably going to be the absolute best to ever play the position, VY or Romo? Please advise, as I need to purchase the Rookie Cards of the winner.

by ctnyc on Aug 3, 2007 5:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

obviously Romo

silly question. ;)

by Terry on Aug 5, 2007 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Knock'em out

I think decking the guy is leading by example. Vince just showed he is "down" for his teammates. And they conversely will be down for him. Nicky prob won't even make the team with that sort of play, and it just showed EVERYONE on that team that that kind of stuff (dangerous tackling in pre-season) is unacceptable. Last time that will happen in Titan's camp believe me! Young isn't Manning, Manning is the "marble model" but he is only one way to be successful as a leader. Had Manning done the same in camp to a dis-respectful nobody, we would all salute his big sack for doing so. You have to understand the psyche of your team, and perhaps that will make the Titans more formidable. Give them that fire.They aren't playing tiddlywinks out there! Anyone who says Vince is dumb because he shouldn't have used his throwing hand, is an idiot...... It's his best punching hand! Ever been in a real fist fight because somebody dissed you after standing up for the right reason? You don't think "hmmm, I shouldn't punch with my right hand because it will adversely effect my tuba playing......" Don't be a wimp! These are rough and tumble cats being rough and tumble......also, Vick is a sadistic criminal, and Young a 2nd year QB. Let's not compare anymore. GO HORSE!

by peterbones on Aug 3, 2007 7:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, it's best not to criticize ...

VY might come over to your house, eat your food and sleep with your momma.

He's a bad mutha ...

shut your mouth!

by PaytonMenning on Aug 3, 2007 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea...

You wouldn't be saying that today if VY was out 6-8 with a broken hand.

by the21eraser on Aug 4, 2007 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

self control

and will Vince young get mad in a game and try to knock out an opposing teams corner because he doesn't like the hit he put on a receiver? that could get him tossed and cost the team a game... or get someone else on his team hurt when he tries to pull VY out of trouble...

what everybody is missing here is that he is supposed to be a PROFESSIONAL and that is positively unacceptable behaviour... if he wasn't their prize quarter back would every be trying to justify it as 'sticking up for his teammates' it was his own team mate he hit... so he only sticks up for some team mates? talk about how to split a locker room...

by bluegirl on Aug 4, 2007 12:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Let's apply some logic please...

Much like those of us who don't have access to classified information on global warming, extra terrestrial visitation, or the war on terrorism...the common poster (yours truly included) can only comment on what the media has given us to form an opinion. Let's face it, we are on the outside looking in with regard to most newsworthy items and this one is no exception.

The facts are that what we saw were TWO consecutive cheap shots by a special times player trying to make a roster. See last year's camp when Nickey got into a scrape with Lendale White. The guy is a TOOL. I'm all about a player taking the skills they have and pushing it right to the limit, but what Nickey did to those 2 receivers was over the top. Vince, as the leader of the team, cannot and will not tolerate that. It has nothing to do with being a pro or an amateur. Because someone is a pro football player does not mean that they must put aside every human emotion. For those of us you have ever played the game...even in high school....quite the opposite is true. It's an emotional pressure-cooker on every play, whether it's in a game or in practice.

It's absurd that you would attempt to pain VY as an axe murderer or anything 2nd rate because he lost his cool in a heated situation. Who among us have not lost our temper at work? The only difference is that their work happens to involve physical contact and ours does not.

by HookEm10 on Aug 6, 2007 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You telling me ...

If you hit somebody at work, they wouldn't fire you?

Why should Vince be held to a lower standard?

by PaytonMenning on Aug 7, 2007 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

asdf

you don't get it. he's just being a GOOD LEADER. See, GOOD LEADERS smack around people on their own team when they dont like what they did.

Little known fact: until last season the Colts had no one willing to slap anyone else on the team around for infractions imagined or real. That is until Rocky Boiman smacked Terrence Wilkins for taking the last donut before morning practice in Training Camp '06. After that, the Colts had a GOOD LEADER and were Super Bowl Bound*.

So don't rag on Vince. smacking around other players is just leadership. DUHHH

*Note: none of this actually happened. This post is full of sarcasm.

Charlie Weis Ate My Baby

by jdb on Aug 7, 2007 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs