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Lombardi was 100% right: Peyton did have a second surgery on his knee

If you watched yesterday's game (and didn't have your signal blocked by the Nazis that run Brighthouse) you saw Jim Nantz and Phil Simms confirm that Peyton Manning did indeed have a second surgery on his knee. This second surgery was first reported by former NFL GM Mike Lombardi at National Football Post back in late August. When Stampede Blue readers emailed Lombardi about the story, he stood by it 100% despite a very vocal fan backlash.

This backlash was a bit unnecessary in that the Lombardi had no real reason to lie about the second surgery, and the Colts have a very checkered history when it comes to accurately reporting and addressing injuries. Let's be honest folks, the two teams in this league that are known to flat out LIE about injuries are the Colts and the Patriots. And the policy has served them well.

The second surgery was a result of another infection getting into Peyton's knee after the first one in late July. As Lombardi said, the Colts medical people were having trouble keeping the inflammation down. The second surgery cost Peyton Manning all the preseason, and the first regular season game against the Bears. Peyton was not healthy enough to play well in that game, no matter what others suggest. If an injury prevents you from running the bread and butter stretch run play, you have no business playing QB for the Colts offense. It is as simple as that.

So, some vindication for Mike Lombardi, who did a spot job reporting this back in August. Some Colts fans owe Mike an apology, and the Colts themselves owe their fans a bit of an apology. This entire knee surgery fiasco was a mess from start to finish. The Colts should have been pro-active in dealing with Peyton's grapefruit knee 9which we knew about since the Pro Bowl), not wait for it to become a problem in late-July. Knees are not supposed to swell to the size of one's own head, let alone the size of Peyton's. His knee should have been worked on in May, not late-July. I know some here disagree with me on that, and that is fine. Hopefully, this screw-up will not cost the Colts anything in the long run for the 2008 season. In the short term, I think it cost the Colts Week One against the Bears.

If it does cost Indy something in the long run this season, the Colts medical staff needs to be F.I.R.E.D. I harp on this because I expect accountability from everyone involved with the Colts, and this rash of injuries has not given me much confidence in the Colts medical or training staff. Injuries happen. I accept that. But, the Colts haven't had "injuries" the last three year. They'd had catastrophes. Three years in a row is not "bad luck." Something isn't working, and it is pissing me off.

And the Colts should have been up front about this second surgery thing. Thinking they could hide it was just petty ignorance on their part. This is the 21st century and the Internet leaks everything. Best to just be honest and deal with it. Lying and covering up something that didn't need such antics is not consistent with the high "moral values" the Colts claim to live and work by. And keeping it close to the vest did not give them any competitive advantage. They lost Week One, remember?

OK, so lesson learned. Hopefully, Mike Lombardi wins some brownie points in the eyes of Colts fans. Maybe the reason the Colts officially do not comment on reports from blogs is because the blogs are the ones reporting actual news while the rest of mainstream media is happy to follow lockstep with the Colts, even if it means failing to report accurate or complete information to paying fans.

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They also said on the telecast that Peyton

wanted to be able to be at minicamp because that’s when they put in new stuff into the offense. They made it sound like he made the choice to risk training camp so he could participate in minicamp. He kept rehabbing instead of getting early surgery then an infection forced it.

I'm still here in the flesh
Twenty-one year old legend
I'ma live way after my death
-Lil' Wayne "Get Down"

by shake n bake on Oct 13, 2008 2:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow. You totally missed the point. LOMBARDI WAS WRONG!!!

Shoe, you blew it man. Lombardi was wrong then, and he was wrong now.

Lombardi got a detail right (which we always said he might have), but he missed the big picture with his story. He said Manning’s knee was a bigger issue than the Colts were letting on. Was it? NO.

He implied it might be an issue all season. Is it? NO.

He said there “much more here than meets the eye”. Is there? NO.

He blew the story. He reported a detail correctly and 100% missed the point. Peyton played week 1. He played well. Other than one moronic throw against Jacksonville (which was not knee related), he’s played pretty freaking well.

Don’t gloat about this dude. You were wrong to believe Lombardi’s crap. He wanted to scare people, and it was a waste of time to listen to him.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Oct 13, 2008 2:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

info right, analysis wrong?

I'm still here in the flesh
Twenty-one year old legend
I'ma live way after my death
-Lil' Wayne "Get Down"

by shake n bake on Oct 13, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree

Look, we are going to disagree on this point, and that is fine. Even if we go by your standard, that Lombardi “said Manning’s knee was a bigger issue than the Colts were letting on,” then Lombardi was indeed 100% right. The Colts tried to hide Peyton’s second surgery. If things were progressing well, as Bill Polian repeatedly said, then a second surgery would not have been necessary. Since one was, things were not progressing well. And the Colts were, indeed, hiding the fact that Peyton’s knee was a bigger issue than they were letting on.

Peyton did play week one, but had no business being out there. He did not play well. He was immobile in the pocket and could not execute the most basic hand off in the Colts offensive playbook. The injury affected him so badly he was unable to warmup probably before the game.

I’m not gloating about the issue. Lombardi was 100% accurate in his reporting and assessment, and he deserves some credit for it.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Oct 13, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also...

When have the Colts “flat out lied about an injury”? I still have yet to see that proven with a quote in print.

The Colts never said Manning didn’t have two proceedures. We still don’t know what that even means.

Read my original post. I stand by every word.

Lombardi’s story was exactly as I described it.

Wrong.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Oct 13, 2008 2:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Deshawn

When a reporter asks you a direct question, like say Did Peyton Manning have a second surgery on his knee? and you respond, No comment; in my mind, that is not being truthful with your customers (aka the fans). The Colts made it clear that the reporting by Lombardi was not credible, when in fact it was and they knew it was.

That, my friend, is lying. At the very least, it is being untruthful.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Oct 13, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What?

“Peyton did play week one, but had no business being out there. He did not play well. He was immobile in the pocket and could not execute the most basic hand off in the Colts offensive playbook. The injury affected him so badly he was unable to warmup probably before the game.”

That’s just ignorant man. I was there. He looked great. His WRs dropped 4 passes. He was moving around in the pocket just fine. You make it sound like he was limping around. He had no visible limp, and evaded the rush just fine. Don’t revise history. That’s just lame.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Oct 13, 2008 3:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't tell me

He was not “moving around in the pocket just fine,” deshawn. He could not even execute the stretch run play. That does not tell me he was “moving around just fine.”

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Oct 13, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And again

On this subject, we are going to be divided. That is fine. The important thing here is Peyton is OK now. I just do not want to see this repeated with another player.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Oct 13, 2008 3:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

They didn't make that clear...

They had no comment on the Manning story because it was by a blog. Dungy’s response was “I’d like to talk to his source” or something to that effect.

That’s not lying. Lombardi was saying Manning would be hampered all season and might not be ready week one. Maybe that’s why they painted him as uncredible. He was. He claimed there was a big problem, when there wasn’t. How much more uncredible could he be?

As for not being able to run the stretch, are you saying that means he shouldn’t have been out there? He couldn’t run the stretch week 2 and brought the team back. Your statement that he shouldn’t have been out there is just not accurate. We broke down every incomplete pass he threw week one, and it was pretty clear that the WRs and pressure caused most of them…the exact two factors that have caused problems in every subsequent week.

I don’t dispute the timing issues with Peyton and the WRs. Those are the result of Peyton missing camp. Lombardi’s post came the day Peyton reappeared and started practicing. He thought he had a big scoop, and blew it. He got the facts right and the analysis 100% wrong. He over played the significance of the second ‘proceedure’ to promote his new blog. The mere fact that Peyton is now ok, shows that Lombardi blew it.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Oct 13, 2008 3:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

not to beat a dead horse but...

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80a9e9b0

that’s video of Manning in week 1. Notice the first play. He has no problem stepping up in the pocket and converting the first. Looks like he had some business being out there. Also, Lombardi’s quote was:

“It’s clear that this is a HUGE concern short- and long-term for the Colts.”

Unless by long term, he meant 5 games, I’d say he blew it.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Oct 13, 2008 3:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm with DZ here

Lombardi had the right info, but his analysis was way off the mark. The problems at the start of the season were the OL struggling and the WRs not on the same page. The Colts have been really careful bringing their key guys back from injury. Just look at how they used Freeney at the start of yesterday’s game. He didn’t play on a 1st or 2nd down until the 2nd quarter. They didn’t run the stretch because it was the same, “better safe than sorry” thinking they used with their other top players.

I'm still here in the flesh
Twenty-one year old legend
I'ma live way after my death
-Lil' Wayne "Get Down"

by shake n bake on Oct 13, 2008 3:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Can't we all just get along....

Face it your both right. The points you both make are vaild but your emphasizing different elements as the most important so it only seems like you disagree. The biggest problem with the Colts the first 3 or 4 weeks was poor O-line, WR, and LB play. When those areas got cleaned up some, you get what we have here yesterday. Was Manning a little limited from his normal self in week 1 and 2. Yes. Does that mean he shouldn’t have been on the field…No. He was still more effective in that situation then 95-100% of other QBs in the league would have been. No QB not even Tom Brady would have won the Chicago game because the QB can only throw the ball he can’t catch it too, and he can’t even throw it if he has NO time because Defensive players are completely unblocked.

Though I obviously tend to agree a little more with DZ, I think it’s clear the the Colts have been a little too “grey” on the truth about injury situations. Since they are doing it to try and gain a competitive advantage (or probably more correctly to avoid a competitive disadvantage) I’ll give them an 80% pass. I think what we’ve all learned from this situation is to take what both the Colts and the Media say about Colt Player injuries with a HUGE grain of salt.

by Rob-Westside on Oct 13, 2008 5:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Am I the only one that liked Peyton in Week 1?

His WRs were what killed the game, drop after drop after drop. I guess that has a lot to do with going from Sorgi’s anemic throws to Peyton’s laser arm, but you can’t really put that on Peyton. He WAS ready to go Week 1.

by slash196 on Oct 13, 2008 5:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Peyton seemed fine week one.

His receivers didn’t. Marvin fumbled. The line didn’t block. But the fear that Lombardi stirred up was exaggerated, and he was obviously looking for the splash story. He found a tidbit and went with the typical “Colts are finally in trouble his year” baloney we hear every offseason.

And as much as I am irked at DZ for his untimely Cubs bashing recently, he doesn’t deserve the negative press for anything about this topic. Although I doubt Lombardi will ever be rotten like Florio or Simmons, that was a garbage way to launch his new blog.

Peyton is fine. Our season is back on track. End of story.

by coltsfanawalt on Oct 13, 2008 6:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I appreciate the passion

You gotta look out for the players and we all know the pressure that is on them to play injured.

That being said, if you believe Chris Mortensen on Sportscenter it was Peyton’s desire not to get the surgery earlier because he didn’t want to miss the usual offseason meetings and activities. He claims Peyton puts a great deal of emphasis on the preparation that takes place therein. Take that for what it is, but it does sound like Peyton to push himself too far. It’s not like anyone can really say “no” to Peyton.

by Demond Sanders on Oct 13, 2008 6:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yep.

I don’t see any of them saying “no” to him…

From what I understand, his physical therapist and he had more than one extremely heated conversation during the beginning of his rehab.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Oct 14, 2008 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blue

To hammer home the point made in the first comment, they said that Peyton said that he wanted to work in the mini-camp to get a handle on the new plays they install and meet the rookies, and thought himself that that was a higher priority than the preseason. From the looks of things, I’d say he’s right.

I also don’t buy this “The Colts are screwing their customers(fans)” line. It is their job to put the team in the best position to win. Sometimes that means not telling the whole truth so that other teams are in the dark. Like you said, the Colts and the Pats do this, and they are the most successful teams of this decade. I say they did the right thing, which is not always the popular thing.

I also blog at Speed Blue Nation

by Bullard47 on Oct 13, 2008 7:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Can we be done with this already

I already blew my brains out this afternoon listening to Kravitz bitch and moan about this for an hour straight, because he wants the Colts organization to tell him everything. What Kravitz has forgotten is good solid work like Lombardi did is called investigative journalism, which Kravitz is way too lazy to care about. We should care about winning not some BS injury that happened months ago.

by HuggyHoosiers on Oct 13, 2008 11:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not Fair to Kravitz (can't believe I just said that)

Lots of guys ‘had the story’ that Manning had two knee surgeries. They couldn’t print the story because they couldn’t confirm it. Lombardi didn’t print the story in a respected source (like his regular gig for SI); he published it on a blog with no standards for journalistic ethics. Phil B and Peter King both mentioned that they had heard the rumors, but couldn’t confirm them. Lombardi went with the story and got it wrong (in terms of severity), but there’s no consequences for that when you run a start up blog.

I agree that the story is boring and not really news, but don’t blame Kravitz for not investigating. He is held to a different burden of proof than Lombardi becuase he actually has editors. Blame Kravitz for something else…like being irrelevant.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Oct 14, 2008 8:35 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Said it before

That even if Peyton had two procedures, it didn’t matter. He’s playing, he’s fine, and if we win against Chicago and Jacksonville, this post and his report look even more ridiculous.

Hark, is the sky falling again? Also, I would advise medical treatment for your obsession about the Colts “lying”, because you seem like you have trust issues that don’t deal with footbal.

by Marik on Oct 16, 2008 12:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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