Harrison currently the 44th Best WR in PPR Leagues
by jammerjoe on Nov 4, 2008 12:28 PM EST
Email
PrintSince the comments for the preseason analysis of Marvin Harrison by Scott Engel is closed, I thought I'd stop by and re-open the discussion in another post. I was prepared for a mea culpa if it was deserved this season, but it doesn't look like I'll have to dust off the Jamaica Hell Fire seasoning for my crow this time around.
No, this isn't an "I told you so." Losing a talent of Harrison's stature is difficult for any team, more so the fans. Harrison brought down the house on many occasions, including a brilliant Monday Night performance against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2006 when the game was seemingly out of reach. With Indy trailing 35-14 and only four minutes remaining, the Colts roared back behind Manning and Harrison and won the game in overtime, 38-35. Manning caught a huge 52 yard strike from Manning to take the ball down to the five yard line with under two minutes remaining in regulation, setting up the tying touchdown, a one yard plunge by Ricky Williams.
But it is obvious that Harrison doesn't have the burst anymore, nor is he making the sharp cuts that punctuated the first 11 years of his career. Scott was right, and that is why he is one of the best in the business.
Of course I expect nothing but rotten vegetables and fruit at this juncture, but I can always hope that someone realizes that passion can often overrule logic in the best of us, clouding our thinking and rational.
Good luck the rest of the season. I hope the Colts get healthy. Oh, and it was pure joy watching them silence the obnoxious Patriot faithful Sunday night.
Pure Joy.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors.
27 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Only Mid-season
barring injury Harrison will move up that list as him and Peyton get back into sync. Scott has been right for the wrong reason so far. Marvin can run fine and has his burst, but the nearly a year of practice time they missed has them out of sync. Just in the Pats game you said you watched, Marvin beat the corner but had to slow, stop and jump for a ball that was behind him and high.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
140 yards per game
6.3 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
and the repeated torchings of Chris McAlllister in the Ravens game
support that Marvin is still physically capable.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
140 yards per game
6.3 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Nov 4, 2008 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Mid Season
I watched the game, Harrison couldn’t get past the corner on several occassions and even the commentators noticed. As another reader pointed out, he gets open more frequently when the corner bites on the play action.
I think Gonzalez should get more involved, and I like the idea of Harrison moving to the slot. That would easily provide an increase in opportunities for him.
Managing Partner, www.RotoExperts.com
Director of Marketing www.fantasyauctioneer.com
and he didn't just call a decline
he said Marvin wasn’t even worth a draft pick. Marvin barely needs to move up (if at all) to make that one wrong.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
140 yards per game
6.3 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
Wrong, that was not said, let's just admit he is nearing the end
I heard the show. Engel NEVER said he wasn’t worth a draft choice. He said he didn’t want him on his team, there’s a difference. I don’t want Donald Driver on my team. That doesn’t mean he should not be owned in a fantasy league. I pass on certain guys on draft day because there are usually safer picks available.
Engel said Harrison has lost his classic burst and separation ability – and he has. You guys need to stop being such homers and realize this is the end of a great run. It’s good for the Colts to have Harrison because he still commands defensive respect, and helps other guys get open. But he is no longer a big playmaker himself. He is still a valuable member of the team, but he’s no longer a reliable fantasy player. If you haven’t rounded into form after nine weeks, it aint gonna happen. He had one good game. Maybe he’ll have one more.
"I really don't think Marvin Harrison becomes a value at any point. I don't draft him at all."
Shonn Greene for Heisman
140 yards per game
6.3 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
They missed almost a year of practice time
Marvin didn’t practice a day after he hurt his knee early last season. Peyton didn’t throw with his receivers until right before week one. A big part of Marvin’s greatness was him and Peyton always being on the same page. That’s missing right now. There’s no denying Marvin isn’t producing up to his standard, but you can’t get the why just from his totals and his age.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
140 yards per game
6.3 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
moving marv to the slot?
what do you guys think about moving marv to the slot. Gonzo seems to be consistently getting open more than Marvin, and I think part of the reason the offense has been off is because Peyton will try to force throws to Marvin being in the no.1 wr spot, but he is just not always open.
I think moving Gonzo out there would put more pressure on the opposing D because he is much more of a deep threat right now, and we can use Marvin in the slot as more of a possession reciever (which is what he is now anyways). I know he “torched” McCallister in the Ravens game, but in reality he only had 3 catches, and the big one was more of a result of McAlister biting on the play-action than Marvin making a good move.
Not the only one ...
Also, I heard Gil Brandt, who knows more football than all of us combined, say Harrison was at the end of the line, too. Saying Harrison is nearing the end isn’t such a bad thing, it’s dealing with reality. All great players see the end at some point, it doesn’t mean the suck. Harrison is a surefire Hall of Famer and Anthony Gonzalez is going to step in nicely for him.
HAHAHAHAHA
2 weeks later he flipped on Harrison
Can’t beat your chest for being right if you changed your mind. He ranked Marvin just 6 spots lower on the WR list than I did. 20th vs 26th
Shonn Greene for Heisman
140 yards per game
6.3 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
Against the rules?
Why can’t someone change their mind? Engel wasn;t the only one to say Harrison was fading, and he is. Gil Brandt said he was near the end, and he’s right. Harrison was a lot higher than 66 just a year ago, and his value was dropping, not climbing. If Engel had ranked him in the Top 15, that would be a “flip.” Saying he no longer even in the Top 65 indicates he was set for a falloff. If you were going to draft Harrison, and gamble on it, you had to take the risk outside the Top 20 WRs. By that point, you’re looking at players you may not want on your team, even if logic seems to dictate he should be taken there.
Bottom line – everyone here freaked out at the mere mention of Harrison falling off, and he has. What’s so shocking about a guy coming off injuries at his age falling off? He can’t be an All-Pro forever. I guesss it’s hard for some people to admit their favorite player is heading to the end.
Well there was this from Jammerjoe on the orginal post
I commend him for sticking to his guns. How many so-called analysts do you see on other sites changing their opinion like (most of us) change our underwear?
But changing your mind is fine. My issue is the this fanpost is pimping the prediction of a guy who backed out of it and adjusted it to almost the same stance that mine was. I bashed him for a stance that he ended up backing out of.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
140 yards per game
6.3 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
I didn't see any backing out
Ranking a guy 66th overall and saying you don;t want him on your own team isn;t backing out. It’s not like he put him back in the Top 10 WRs. I never heard Engel change his mind. He said Harrison was about a seventh rounder with a down arrow from the beginning. Your ranks may have been similar, but if you and Engel were drafting together, you would take Harrison in the Top 65 and he would not. Ranking a guy outside the Top 20 at his positionis not a ringing endorsement, especially for Harrison. You’re making it sound like Engel said Harrison was sompletly finished and not draftable. That’s not what he said. he said he was through as a top fantasy WR, and a ranking of 66 doesn;t reflect anything differently.
backing out
That is assuming that Scott is the only person involved in the prediction/projection game. He isn’t. His name is attached to it because it is the most recognizable, but we have a team of guys who make these decisions. Check out the Experts Challenge that Jeff Thitoff does in the Columbus Dispatch. RotoExperts dominates the field. The Fantasy Football Librarian has given us a bunch of coverage for our projections and weekly analytics and advice. My point is this. As fantasy advice goes, would you rather be sitting on Harrison right now with your team having drafted him higher than his value, or watched someone else pass up better value to draft him and, as has happened in many leagues, watch him get dropped to the waiver wire. If in fact Harrison can increase his value in the second half of the season, scooping him from the waiver would be much more palatable than selecting him 66th, or 60th for that matter, overall, don’t you think?
Managing Partner, www.RotoExperts.com
Director of Marketing www.fantasyauctioneer.com
Basically.....
I think what we have here is a good old fasion standoff! Firstly i think we can all agree that Marvin Harrison is not 24 anymore. I also think we can agree that Mr Manning and Mr Harrison have not always been on the same wavelength this season. I cant find enough evidence however to prove the argument for either side!Harrison is still getting seperation which implies he still has speed.He also isnt dropping the ball alot which also implies he hasn’t got arthritis yet.
However he clearly isn’t having the same production as previous years. That may be his fault, it may also be the fact that No. 18 is not his old self yet. I think the jury should stay out of this one until Peyton and the offensive line are back.
…………anyway who listens to what these columists write?they are of course going to be conservative about an old reciever who missed a significant amount of time!it’ll look better for them to say he’s lost it than to say he’ll be as good as new!
GOOOO HORSE!
gooo horse
Great post. This was only a half time review. I’ll be interested to see if, as you guys at ground zero propose, Harrison can come back with better production the second half. That is one of the reasons I come to blogs like this. There is no better source (filtered of course for rampant homerism) for what is happening with the local team.
Managing Partner, www.RotoExperts.com
Director of Marketing www.fantasyauctioneer.com
Fine for the Colts
If Harrison bounces back, which is a big if, that doesn;t help fantasy teams nearly as much as it helps the Colts. In my fantasy league, I’m not leaving a guy in my lineup to see if he can “come back with better prodution.” After nine weeks, you can;t wait for miracles. Remember, we’re talking about fantasy football here. By this point, you know who you can and cannot depend on, and you cannot depend on Harrison any more.
As for saying Harrison is done originally being a conservative call, I disagree. If it was, it wouldn;t have drawn so much ire here, and saying a guy drops from the first to seventh round is not conservative. Conservative would be saying,he’ll still be pretty good, but not great. Given Harrison;s history, prediciting a falloff was anything but a “safe” call.
I understand
what you are saying, however in my opinion if i was a pundit and someone asked me what i think of Harrison in the 08/09 season after a year out and getting older i would have said that he will do well to come back to his previous form. For me then to be wrong and Harrison be amazing would be less painful than if it were the otherway round. Obviously I am a colts fan and a forever optomist so the glass is half full at the minute!
Your argument stands up and its good that you have a different opinion because how boring would these sites be if everyone agreed with each other!?
Would you rather have Marv in there or some rookie you have never seen play? They still have their best corners on Harrison and usually a safety over top. Marv is still rusty look how long it took Peyton to get back to his usual self and he was only out for pre-season. Marv has been out for alot longer and understandably it will take him a little longer to get back into the rhythm but i have no doubt that he will get back to where he was.
We're talking fantasy here
In fantasy football, I’d rather have rookies like DeSean Jackson and Eddie Royal. It’s been nine weeks, I can;t wait any longer for this supposed turnaround.
After nine weeks ...
I have no more time for “ifs”.
Having no more time for "ifs"
Isn’t a good basis for fantasy analysis, given the whole endeavour is one big set of assumptions.
I was looking at Harrison just outside the top 20 WRs, and he ended up going a round earlier than I would have picked him. But given that I took Torry Holt over him, due in a large part to “expert” consensus, I don’t think I’m any worse off than if I’d taken Harrison. As it stands, I’ve binned Holt for Bernard Berrian and grabbed Donnie Avery as my #4 WR anyway.
Harrison clearly isn’t a top fantasy WR right now. That doesn’t mean he’s useless to the Colts, and it doesn’t mean he won’t turn it around in the second half of the season. But there’s no guarantee Torry Holt or Donnie Avery or Bernard Berrian or A.N. Other will be good, or bad, in the second half of the season either. All you can do is look at what they’ve done, try to figure out why, and if that set of circumstances will continue.
Marvin is far from done but it sure seems he has clearly lost some of his greatness. Yeah he may have blown by some guys but so what? Why don’t those saying this point out the other times where he has been outplayed by guys like NICK HARPER and such.
Marvin’s issue isn’t so much speed as it is he simply doesn’t run the routes like he has. maybe this will improve and it is just rust but some need to accept that maybe JUST MAYBE Marvin’s age and injury have taken their toll and the guy isn’t the dominant player he was.
I am pretty sure it is going to be his last year in Indy so it’d be nice if he went out with a good final half.
MARVIN IS STILL MY FAVORITE COLT!
You know I wouldn’t get mad if we cut Marvin after this year, unless we didn’t sign another WR. If we go out there and sign either Anquan Boldin (who will be a f/a) or TJ Houshmanzadeh! That would be great for us! But I don’t know if we will be willing to pay them!
We're sorry, commenting is temporarily disabled. Please check back in a few minutes.
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Is Eli a Hall-of-Famer? Not according to Kurt Warner, he isn’t
- Tiquan Underwood, cut on Super Bowl eve, is a Patriot again
- Woman at Giants Super Bowl parade can’t wait to see Mark Sanchez (video)
- Bradying is sweeping the nation (for the next 48 hours or so)
- Knowshon Moreno charged with DUI; has a license plate that reads ‘SAUCED’
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
