Let's talk defense and officiating (Lions)
by Nideak on Dec 16, 2008 4:59 PM EST
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Print1) Let me say that after watching the game again (in super fast motion, I only watch the running game, both offense and defense) the officiating was even crappier the second time around. The muffed punt has been covered, but their WRs (especially Standeford) were great at holding down field. And by great I mean "really really breaking the rules right in front of the officials and no flag being thrown". This wasn't your standard 'you can call holding on every play' holding. Two times Tim Jennings' jersey was pulled so much you could see his tummy (I think he had eggs for breakfast), both on two of Kevin Smith's longer runs. The illegal contact/PI calls in this game were also craptastic. The Colts should have probably been called in the first quarter for a PI down field, and when the refs failed to do so, they made sure to make up for it in each subsequent quarter.
2) Clint SessioN is a beast, still. The Colts ran a nifty defense a few times, showing how much they trust Session, Bullitt, and Bethea. The Colts would play a 'nickel' look, but the 3 LBs would be Bullit - Keaiho - Davis, and then Session would be over the slot. He was able to make a TFL (tackle for loss) on quick screen to Johnson on the first play of the game, and made a few stops in the backfield on the run from this formation. He was very active, the most active of the line backers. He was out of position a few times, but it wasn't his fault (will cover whose fault it was in 5...4...3...2...1...)
3) OH. MY. GOD. The defensive line played horrible. Yes, there was the standard 'Freeney and Mathis are gonna get their necks broke if you don't call that' holds on pass plays, but Jesus, this was Freeney's worst game against the run I can ever remember. The Lions would frequently line up with a trips right formation in either a 2 TE - 2 WR - 1 RB or 3 WR - 1 TE - 1 RB set, start the run to the strong side (the trips side) and then cut back. During the game, the runs looked to be the fault of the safety (usually bullitt) because he was missing a tackle. This is partly true, however the bigger problem was WHY the Lions kept running the weak side cut back to Freeney's side. The Lions weren't, for the most part, blocking Freeney, because Freeney would slant straight down the line of scrimmage into nothingness. He could have passed a field sobriety test he was going so straight down the LOS. The fews times the Lions DID block Freeney on a run was when the run was actually to the strong side, away from Freeney, and they didn't block #93 with a lineman. They would pull the far TE against the grain and WHAM (for John Madden) block freeney out of the play.
To continue this thought, the Colts ran so many stunts and twists, it made no sense. Freeney and Mathis could have schooled these guys one on one (which they often were being blocked), but the Colts rarely gave them the chance. On multiple plays they would both stunt inside of the tackles, or loop around the entire line switching sides. These can be effective, when used at the right times, but they just wore them out on Sunday.
4) I would love for someone to explain to me what happened on the Colts first drive of the second half. Simpson takes a sprint draw for ten-ish yards to the 20 yard line for a first down. Next thing you know, its 4th and 20 from the 40. So confused. No penalty, no explanation, nothing. I'm assuming there was a hold somewhere, but I never saw it.
5) Speaking of never seeing things. STOP GIVING ME SCREWED UP CAMERA ANGLES. I DON'T NEED HEAD ON OR BACK SIDE SHOTS FROM FIELD LEVEL. If you want to give me north-south looks, do it from the catches end zone cam. Otherwise just stick with the normal look.
6) The Colts D has played a lot of man coverage (not cover 3) the past 2 weeks. They haven't been blitzing on these plays, but I'm thinking they are playing more man to allow Freddie and Clint more freedom to attack the line of scrimmage.
7) Some quick Colts' passing game + ref notes: If that was offensive PI on Marvin Harrison, Randy Moss has 0 catches for 0 yards and 0 touchdowns. FOR HIS CAREER. The Lions were amazingly good with contact 5-10 yards down field. The Walt Colemanites did a good job of following their leader.
The Colts got called for an off-sides in the 2nd quarter (I believe, I wasn't taking notes). This was a great call, considering the LT was making a humping motion towards the ground.
Thats all. I would say, in general, all of the frustating things from this game (other than the turnovers) were all fixable. The colts are getting shredded on the weak side runs, but its all schematic or players not playing backside containt. Both of which are not only fixable, but easily fixable. So I would assume that once those gets fixed, plus Foster, Dawson, Brackett and Sanders are back, this defense will be rarin to go.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors.
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Re 4
I think on the Simpson run it was a hold on Pollak. On the replay I saw him get beat and make a diving grab at the DT who despite being in the hole is SOMEHOW unable to tackle Simpson.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
It would have been lovely for fox to actually show us the ref making the call
instead of listening to Thom Brenemen (sp) and Billick slurp each other.
looking at the other games that was at best their "C" Team
and I suspect it was much lower than that
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Dec 16, 2008 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not a nickel look if there are three linebackers on the field. It’s just having eight in the box. They do it all the time, regardless of whether it’s Bob or Melvin. In the nickel, Buster leaves the field for Ratliff. (Which is odd. What good is a MLB if he can’t play in coverage?)
This is not to take anything away from Session though, he has been great lately.
Thom/Billick is much lower than C for Fox. Though Billick should and likely will be moved higher quickly. He’s pretty good, as you’d expect a coach to be. Thom is bad at baseball and football and probably everything else in life. Like spelling.
No...
I understand what 8 in the box was. If you had read what I said, it was not 8 people in the box. It was 7 people in the box and Session out on the slot guy. I said it was a “nickel” look. The use of quotes was to show that it wasn’t, in fact, nickel. It wasn’t a 4-4 configuration. It was run multiple times, but you only have to rewatch the first play of the game. Session was out at the hash mark over the slot.
It's the nickel
You get two LBs out there and Keiaho has the radio. I’d rather have Session out there than Davis.
the argument, though (which is stupid, I admit), doesn’t refer to a play where Buster leaves, but rather one where all three LBs remain and the offensive alignment shifts Session over to cover the slot man because neither safety has time to get there.
Sigh.
Do you not know what quotes means? The 3 line backers weren’t IN THE BOX. Session was split out on a receiver. If he was in the box, so were Hayden and Jennings, so I guess the Colts had 10 men in the box. I understand its not nickel, which is why i had it in quotes. 9 times out of 10, actually 10 times out of 10, until this game, when the Colts were in their base 4-3 and in man coverage in a trips formation, Bullitt/Sanders would come down into man and press the slot receiver. This didn’t happen in this case, it was Session split out on the man in press coverage. I’m not going to respond to your post below, so I’ll just say it here: If you don’t think having a LBer in press coverage on a receiver and your SS playing SAM is a level of trust (which is exactly what I said in my original post) then just don’t bother reading my posts :)
Sigh right back
At this point we’re arguing semantics, which is a waste of time. Yes, I know what quotes mean. I don’t care where the linebackers are. My point, which is a minor nitpick at best that you keep defending, is that a) it’s not uncommon or unique or tricky that they do that sometimes and b) you can’t say it resembles a nickel when there are still 3 people lined up in the role of LB, even if one is Bullitt. Bullitt and Session traded places. Your usage of nickel plus quotes would be more appropriate for a situation where they left Session out in coverage on a third wide receiver rather than subbing Ratliff in for Davis, thus making him in essence the fifth DB. If Bullitt is playing LB, that just means Session is the new 4th DB. Like if the other team was going no huddle, forcing them into an unfavorable matchup.
You’re misinterpreting my other post too because you’re being too goddamn defensive. Of course having a linebacker on a receiver is the highest level of trust. When did I ever disagree with that? The strong safety wasn’t playing SAM though. He slides down into the WILL region. Once he’s over there, when the offense splits that man out into the slot the D has three options: rotate Bullitt back deep and Bethea up to cover him (which can work, but also takes more time); have the weakside corner, who suddenly has nobody to cover, bust ass to get over there (again, there might not be time for this); or have Session at SAM slide a few yards up and to the left and play the slot. In this case, Jennings/Hayden (whoever is on the weak side) is basically stuck in run support or covering the flat or a tight end. You’re right that he could count as being in the box as well.
You make it sound like they did this on purpose and that it’s a favorable matchup for the Colts. It’s not. Session does a great job and we’re all happy for it but they’re not running that alignment because that’s their preferred method for covering a wide receiver. They’re doing it because of where they are on the field and what the defense is forcing them to do.
UNLESS this is referring specifically to a play in which they were lined up as:
……54 ……… 52 ………. 33
93 ……. 99 ……. 79 ……… 98 ………………. 55 (slot)
(hopefully that displays properly). If Bullitt was on that same side of the field and Session slid out then I apologize and take this all back. This is in fact unique, and a bit odd. It’s still not in any way pretending to be a nickel, but it is a decision made intentionally and not simply a shift based on it being the easiest of three options, which makes it a good catch on your part and means I’ve just been picking a fight this whole time. My assumption was that you were talking about this:
……33 ……… 54 ………. 52
93 ……. 99 ……. 79 ……… 98 ………………. 55 (slot)
which happens from time to time. Bob (or Melvin) will creep down in with the LBs and could be there for run support, could run blitz on the weak side, or could backpedal into a zone. And if the O decided not to have a receiver on that side, he’d just play linebacker.
Are we clear? Is there anything else you’re going to accuse me of missing?
hmm
you are right, however, that him being up in press is unusual. In my 2nd diagram up there, 55 wouldn’t necessarily be right in the slot there, but farther back and maybe not directly across from the guy. I assume the instructions were to hit Johnson coming off the line every time, even if you’re a linebacker, which might be why he was up there, but still, yes, I do agree that that is a lot of confidence in your 2nd year LB that everyone expected to lose his job when Hagler got better.
a minor nitpick 'at best' that i keep defending..
More like, you keep harping on, no?
The play was unusual. As I said, 100% of the time, when the Colts are in their 4-3 base, but in man, the safety will be over the slot, not aligned like a linebacker.
The alignment was NEITHER that you posted. It was:
……33……52…….54
E……….T……….T……….E……………..55
Having both the SAM and the WIL on the same side of the formation, and then SAM in press coverage on a slot receiver outside of the box is unusual for a team like the Colts. I keep notes of all of their defensive stuff. I’m a nerd. One day, when my boys are old enough, I hope to coach their peewee team, and then, after we win the championship, the Raiders. The last time the Colts used a LB to press a WR was the Patriots game, the LB was Keiaho, he was split FAR wide, jamming Moss. But he wasn’t covering moss. He jammed Moss at the line, then slid in towards the middle of the field in a zone.
I’m not trying to ‘accuse you’ of anything. I didn’t say they were in nickel. I said exactly what was on the TV screen. I understand the difference between a 4-3, a nickel, a dime, a dime bag, a quarter, a quarter pounder with cheese, a 46, a 4-4, a Colt, 45, etc..
The fact that it jumped out at me is why it was part of my post.
but... but...
I’m only harping because you keep defending!
Watching the D is fun. Usually I am more focused on the D line during the play but always try to watch the DBs beforehand. The past two games I’ve been mostly watching Buster or joking with the people next to me (there has been a much lighter atmosphere at the last two games). You have already shown the knowledge necessary to coach the Raiders to a better record than they have had lately, you know. Perhaps you could take the Fassel route and submit a handwritten application letter to Count Davis. If you wait til after you win the peewee championship you could be out of luck because he might be dead.
I’ll recant, because Keiaho usually hops over to the strong side when they play a nickel. That’s where he was for the BS DPI call that lost the Jags game. Still, aside from the press aspect of it, it’s not unheard of. The Moss case makes me think it’s actually a good idea if they can work it so that the LB hits him but doesn’t have to run with him – since LBs can hit harder. If Welker wasn’t so damn slippery it’d be nice to just level him every play with a linebacker then let someone else cover his zones.
How many other plays did Session do that in? How far did he end up going down the field in the ones after the first play of the game with the tfl?
How many other plays did Session do that in? How far did he end up going down the field in the ones after the first play of the game with the tfl?
4 plays total. 2 pass plays 2 run plays. On the first pass play, obviously, was a tfl. The second play, I don’t know, he got 5 yards down field on the TV before the wonderful camera work took over. Pass wasn’t in his direction.
Anyhow, wording was probably wrong. Not really a nickel, but ‘reverse nickel’. I guess 4-3 with the safety in man on the slot receiver would be more of a nickel look.
I did read what you wrote. That’s why I responded. Regardless of their placement, having three guys positioned as linebackers isn’t a nickel look. Session being out there in the slot wasn’t some trick alignment the D was running, it was simply him sliding out because the offense dictated that that man was his responsibility. This happens all the time. Bob run blitzed out of that look frequently last year. It is definitely a good sign for us that Session is quick enough to handle that responsibility and still react to the short stuff like the first play and get in there that quickly.
Re: 1
The thing that stood out to me in this game and thinking back to the game against the pats is that we need taller CBs. Not by an inch or two… by a good 3 or 4 inches.
Tim Jennings: 5’8" Calvin Johnson: 6’5" (that’s NINE INCHES, people!)
Dante Hughes: 5’10" Randy Moss: 6’4"
Kelvin Hayden: 6’0" Reggie Williams: 6’4"
Jennings was matched up with Chambers and Jackson last year too, each of whom tower over him. There aren’t that many tall CBs though, and the good ones command a ton of money. On jump balls like that against guys who are 6’5" and awesome just about any corner gets beat. Best to just be prepared for it and try to hit him hard as he catches it instead of trying to outjump him. That worked on several instances sunday in the middle of the field, and probably would’ve worked on that one on the sidelines if they had done that instead of going for the ball.
Ronde Barber
Maybe one of the best tampa-2 CBs, ever, is only 5-10.
Brian Kelly, whom people wanted to bring in, and had a good career with Tampa, is 5-11
The difference between them (along with Hayden and Jackson) and someone like Nnamdi Asomugha (6-2) is that in a primarily zone defense, height isn’t as important. In man, you’re running with the receiver and may have to, in the process of running, jump to get the ball at its heighest point, or be tall enough to knock the ball out of the receivers hands. In zone, you’ll primarily be facing the QB, in a back pedal type motion. Its easier to get jump/lift in this position, and height isn’t as important.
And I think I remember Tim Jennings having some sort of insane vert in the combine.
spreaking of officiating...
This isn’t related to this post, and I have no idea why I just thought of it, but…
People have been pointing out all the ways that officiating has affected playoff races (Pittsburgh, Baltimore, San Diego, Denver, etc) but here’s one that slides under the radar: If the Colts end up tied with Tennessee after next week and the Ravens fall out of the race, how huge is the sequence at 6:07 of the 4th quarter here:
http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=281005033&period=4
This is the awful call that not as many people noticed: False start, but the play is allowed to continue. Collins misses on the pass, bringing up fourth down, but a TERRIBLE non-existent roughing the passer is called. On a play that shouldn’t have even happened! And instead of being one of those weird cases where two non-equivalent penalties offset, it completely superseded the false start that should’ve cancelled the play. So the Titans got 15 free yards and a first down instead of the Ravens having decent field position to grind clock and probably ice the game.
Suppose they get that call right. Baltimore’s got a double case of being screwed out of the playoffs by the refs (though I still think they were toast either way against Pittsburgh) and the Colts get a home playoff game if they win out. Hell, they’d be in the running for the 1 seed (unlikely, since Pittsburgh would have to lose to Cleveland)!
Of course, if the Titans lose that, maybe they beat the Jets, etc. Still, that one gets overlooked and in many ways it’s worse than the other high profile mistakes. Hochuli’s was simple human error. Letting the play continue after a false start and then calling a penalty that didn’t happen is just bad judgement.
Suppose they...
call Rashean Mathis for rape on Marvin Harrison on the pick-6 in the first jax – indy game, or call Reggie Williams for OPI instead of Freddie Keiaho for OPI… Either way, the Colts are 11-3 and still playing for the #1 seed, with a great chance to get it. Officials are doing great this year, just ask them. 97% (or was it higher) accruacy!
No kidding. I hate when people say that the Colts should’ve been 1-6. Well, if you use the logic that luck doesn’t count, then bad luck doesn’t either, and they’d have been 2-5 because of the Jags game. The anti-Colts crowd always forgets that.
Still, I think that losing that game created a sense of urgency that contributed to the current streak. If they had pulled that game out maybe they don’t have the same results in a game or two in the streak. Maybe that Steeler game wouldn’t have been a must win. There’s too much emotion and other factors in football to say that they’d be 11-3, so I try not to get too upset about it. Now, if they were 8-6 right now and out of it, I’d be singing a different tune. Like the Chargers… if they didn’t get screwed, maybe they do end up with greater focus, more confidence, and pull out another extra win or two. Hard to say. In hindsight, I think it hurt them more than it hurt us.
The fact that a desperate Jags team in a must-win situation executed their game plan to perfection, played their best, and still needed two bad calls to beat the Colts is what gives me the most hope about tomorrow night. The Jags could be 0-14 and still scare me because they always get up for the Colts, but I think that they can’t possibly be better than they were in that game, meaning hopefully we’re not looking at too great an obstacle to overcome to clinch. I, for one, think Mad Jack deserves a nice 44-10 spanking.
Yeah, you never know how one decision changes each subsequent action, thats for sure. The one thing that gives me hope, though, and not just the hypothetical being able to win the division if Walt Coleman doesn’t screw us, but also when talking about Super Bowl chances:
This team has played complete games on offense and on defense. I bet, if you were to grade the two, the defense has actually graded out better than the offense as a unit this year. But in only one case have all 3 phases played a complete game together (Balt). This is always the big thing for me. Its the reason I didn’t panic in ‘06. They have proven they CAN do it. If they play a complete and I don’t mean perfect, but complete, game in the playoffs, they can beat anyone. If they can play 3 complete games (they played 2.5 complete games in 06 imo) they can make it to tampa. No team really scares me out there vs. our defense. I guess I’m a little concerned about Pitts, but I think Manning and the offense will rise above it. I hope so. I know Manning will, I’m more concerned about Ugoh, Johnson, Pollak, and Diem.
Pittsburgh’s offense scares me a lot less than their field. We should really all be rooting for the Titans this weekend. The turf in Pittsburgh will be as bad as it used to be in Gillette.
I’m still pessimistic about the defense. They can be driven on by any team with patience and that means fewer possessions for the offense. The Jets scare me for this reason. I hate Favre and he’s overrated but he has been accurate on the short stuff this year and the dinks and dunks plus Jones can move the ball on the Colts. Luckily there doesn’t seem to be a way for Denver to get out of the 4th slot now so that first round matchup is likely avoided. I would hate to lose to stupid Favre. Hopefully Pennington will beat them next week. Jenkins, the real reason for that team’s turnaround, has been fading and isn’t dominating anymore, which really makes Miami’s running game look good.
I’d say they were pretty complete against the Bengals. Maybe the kick coverage wasn’t the best, but that game was a laugher. Hopefully tomorrow night will be a nice complete effort too.
The defense has been better, lately. Think about the detroit game. They got multiple stops, but 2 of those resulted in fumbled punts. That was 6 more points on the scoreboard and how many off of it for the Colts? If the Colts just get the FIRST one, score 3 or 7, the game is so far out of reach going into half time they the lions might not run the more, they’ll do more deep drops, get some sacks, etc… those turnovers changed the game.
Yes, they can still be moved on, some, but they haven’t been at 100% in a while. Im hoping that once they get everyone back, get healthy and in sync, they’ll be good enough. Same with the offense, just need to get a rhythm.
Yeah. 06 helped me to be less of a pessimist too. Remember how overmatched they were supposed to be against KC and Baltimore? Heh. They can put it together no matter what. Still, despite the stats, I don’t think they have been 100% effective this year. If they’re not bad on third down, they’re bad on 1st or 2nd to put them in impossible 3rd and shorts. I can’t tell you how many times the crowd has stood up for third down and I only stood up because I couldn’t see, knowing that the other team would convert. I’m almost always right.
I’m a jerk and a pessimist though. Still, the Baltimore game and a drive here and there have been the only times they’ve truly dominated. I realize it’s ridiculous to expect them to always dominate, of course, but sometimes I just find myself with no confidence. Sometimes holding the other team to 3 is still a failure, if it takes 9 minutes off the clock. Well, not failure, but definitely disappointment.
Believe it or not, I’m much like you. The 9 minute drives kill me. Death by 100000000 paper cuts is what I call it. Its unwatchable if you’re a Colts’ fan sometimes… the Cleveland game was the worst. But the fact that they ARE able to do it occasionally gives me hope that they can do it consistently. We’ll see. I hope we they win tomorrow, but I was also hoping that they’d have to play all 16 to fight, claw and scratch. Oh well, this uncertainty is what makes it interesting… right?
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