Did Tom Brady know?

by Brad Wells on Feb 14, 2008 2:26 PM EST in NFL General

Tom Brady: Tainted legacy?

I have always sung Tom Brady's praises. I have lost a little respect for him this past season when he blatantly worked to break Peyton Manning's single season TD record, and failed (Manning threw 49 in 15 games, Brady threw 50 in 16). Be that as it may, before this whole video taping thing came about, I considered Brady one of the top 5 QBs all time. I've always considered Peyton Manning better because he has done more with less. Brady won Super Bowls when he had a dominant defense and the best kicker in NFL history. Meanwhile, with crappy defenses and Mike Vanderjagt, Peyton was leading his team to playoff wins. But that doesn't demean of belittle Brady.

However, in light of the new information stating Bill Belichick has been taping opponents signals since 2000, it calls into question Tom Brady's accomplishments and his legacy. Brady and Belichick are inseparable, there is no debating that. The two were nothing prior to their union. Belichick was a has been coach who couldn't win in Cleveland, and Brady was sharing snaps with Drew Henson at Michigan. Obviously, if Belichick is gathering information on an opponent's signals, the person who benefits the most from it is Brady.

Senator Arlen Specter, the man investigating Belichick's and Goodell's actions during this scandal, has openly suggested that Brady received information in-game as a result of taping the opponent, and used that information to win football games.

"The Commissioner [Goodell] sought to downplay the issue about the utility, but from information we've received, there was opportunity for the signal to be transmitted to the quarterbacks [Brady] so they could utilize these signals that they taped in violation of NFL rules."

This suggestion coupled with the recent off-the-record revelations provided by former Patriots back-up QB Doug Flutie paints a dark, dangerous portrait of Brady and Belichick's relationship.

Let's be clear about something, many people thought this meeting between Goodell and Specter would lead to nothing. Obviously, they were dead wrong. We know Goodell has been hiding vital information from the fans about Belichick's legacy of cheating. Just because this story is running alongside the Roger Clemens foot-in-mouth story does not mean fans are going to ignore or forget it. If Specter's suggestions become truth, and Flutie's suggestions made reality, then Brady could very well got the route of Pacman Jones and Michael Vick.

Knowingly taking information obtained through illegal means and using it to win football games is not different than injecting steroids into your body to give you a competitive advantage of an opponent. Each offense warrants a suspension. If Brady did this multiple times, he could be looking at a long suspension, and a tainted legacy.

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respect for Flutie

I give a great deal of respect to Flutie if he blew the whistle on these guys. He was always a great figure in the CFL and I loved to watch him play in Buffalo. The fact that he is one of those who has been talking to specter (rather than through the media) says a lot about his class and respect for the sport. And if he is saying it, to my mind that lends a lot of credibility to the story.

by bluegirl on Feb 14, 2008 2:41 PM EST reply actions

Flutie

said nothing of the sort to Labatard -- here is the qoute

"That's the rumor floated today by Dan LeBatard in one of those wacky Miami Herald chats. Tough to tell if LeBatard is joking or not (most of the chat is knee-slapping stuff, but he actually seems to have put thought into this answer), but Arlen Specter, if you're reading (old people know about this internet thing, right?), kindly look into this: "i've heard second hand about doug flutie being amazed ..."

Sooo he heard a rumor(unsubstantiated)from somebody who heard that flutie said this --- ummm yeah OK..
I've heard that Dungy is anti-gay but I put no stock in it...show me hard evidence or let Flutie speak himself --
And please, don't belittle Brady as a secondhand quarter back who's only success has come from video taping the opponents....his work ethic is tops among QBs in the league and he ranks as one of the best ever...sharing time in college has nothing to do with his abilities --- look at Chauncy Billups, one of the best point guards in the NBA right now...Boston had him for about 5 months b4 that retard Ptino decided he did not have what it took to be an NBA point guard.Man, was he ever wrong.
Arlen Spectre is a grandstanding a**hole. This is not the first time he has threatened to revoke the NFL's anti-trust status. It is actually the third. He threatened once when the NFL would not allow directTV to carry games and second when the Eagles BENCHED T.O. ---let me type that again...he threatened the NFL when the Eagles BENCHED T.O. -- he is an idiot --- oh, and by the way .. I believe he came up with the one bullet theory for Kennedy's assasination. "The chief architect of the "single bullet theory" was the Warren Commission's ambitious junior counsel, Arlen Specter, now U.S. Senator from Pennsylvania." --- http://www.geocities.com/justicewell/specter.htm

I am not defending Bellichick's blatant disregard for the rules and a memo that went out at the end of last season about taping opponents, but as one of the best coaches in the NFL has stated..
"Any coach who thinks their signals aren't being stolen is an idiot." -- Bill Parcells
I guess he is gonna have to stick to the tried and true method of binoculars and a clipboard for writing....

"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win." Sun Tzu

by OneMore on Feb 14, 2008 3:03 PM EST reply actions

Specter is usless

Specter is searching for something that isn't there. Yes, the Pats cheated. They have had no qualms about saying that. Specter is taking out a personal vendetta agaisnt the NFL and the Pats for his Eagles wasting so many attempts. While saying nothing else about the destroyed tapes, the Commish has specifically said there was nothing of that Superbowl. Specter is and always will be hack of a politition and this case is no different.

Also, 5 out of the 7 last articles on the front page haven't been about the Colts. C'mon man, I hate to say I was right, but you have more Pats info up then Colts info.

by ZTurgeon on Feb 14, 2008 3:13 PM EST reply actions

The info is NFL info

If someone else had broken the rules and faced what the Patriots are doing it would be on the front page. This information is for football fans, and in this case it's about the Pats cheating..and we're all interested in reading it. Get over it.

by yellowsnow on Feb 14, 2008 3:54 PM EST up reply actions

I don't mind

reading it and actually appreciate the point of view.
But to point it out as the truth is incorrect. The senator said the tapes "could" have given an advantage and Flutie's remarks are unsubstantiated if even true. Nothing has been proven and what if Bellichick and the other coaches were the only ones who gleaned info from the tapes and then used the info to win games..the players would have unknowingly benefitted from this knowledge....not their fault. So until ACTUAL evidence comes out, I will reserve my judgement until later.

"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win." Sun Tzu

by OneMore on Feb 14, 2008 4:19 PM EST up reply actions

gee

sounds a lot like the comments roger clemens is making... Deny Deny Deny... you can't prove anything..

Yes I did misread where Flutie was quoted, but my comments about trusting them if he is saying he saw this still stands.

And as I said in a post in a different topic, if I were a pat fan I would want an investigation with all these rumours floating around so that this could be proven or disproven, or the success of the team under Belicheat will forever be tainted.

by bluegirl on Feb 14, 2008 6:37 PM EST up reply actions

ashamed of your team?

we're just pointing out what is going on in the NFL. Main points? Pats cheated, umm Pats cheated, oh and Pats cheated. We're sorry that is the big talk on campus. We'll talk about the shitty attitude of the Pats and their cheating ways until it is no longer a story, then we'll go our separate ways. If I were you I'd want this swept under the rug as well.

Even if Specter is an idiot doesn't mean he isn't right this time around. There is something bigger going on here, and he and the rest of the football world smell it.

by bleedingblue @ Stampede Blue on Feb 14, 2008 4:03 PM EST up reply actions

I understand

Oh I don't doubt that something could be going on. Sure, I don't want there to be, but it hasn't blinded me. I do feel however, that wanting to Pats to have cheated in that Superbowl has blinded Specter. As it was already pointed out, the second anything hurts his eagles, he threatens the NFL, and seeing the chance to justify his Eagles losing the Superbowl must be like Christmas in his ryes.

by ZTurgeon on Feb 14, 2008 6:54 PM EST up reply actions

dude...

You and your horrible spelling is really starting to annoy alot of people around here. Stop reading this blog if all you are going to do is post: "Durrr dis iz kultz blogglers durr hurr thalk aboot deh cults durrrr." It has gotten old.

by KingRichard on Feb 14, 2008 4:14 PM EST up reply actions

Richard

Did ya not read the legit opinion above it? The one that had nothing to do with the site and instead questioned the validity of Specter. Didn't think so. Why would you bother?

by ZTurgeon on Feb 14, 2008 6:50 PM EST up reply actions

oigjiajdsg

I don't give a crap about what someone else said. All you ever do is whine about how this is a Colts blog and we don't talk about the Colts.

wwwwwaaaaaaaahhhhh!

by KingRichard on Feb 14, 2008 9:30 PM EST up reply actions

Richard

Hometown Trolls are still trolls.

by ZTurgeon on Feb 15, 2008 2:23 AM EST up reply actions

oimfianeg

Whatever, stop acting like a baby. If you don't like what is talked about on the blog then don't come here. It's a pretty simple concept to understand.

by KingRichard on Feb 15, 2008 3:25 AM EST up reply actions

obviously...

Brady would have benefited from the calls being known. I would say him being suspended though is a little out there.

It's simple to me...if one questions what the Pats have done in the past then one HAS to lump Brady in there, especially since he is the guy to benefit the most from the calls.

IMO all this does is continue to show Manning is the better QB since Manning was able to outperform Brady every year until this season and did it without having his coach give him plays (as in what offensive plays to run, including audibles) via cheating.

I do not hold brady accountable for this (although it is plausible he knew full well abut the cheating and was directly a part of it watching the films, etc) but the reality is he benefited from it and one should now question his success like they would the team. Some will point to this season to prove that is silly but wtf did he do this year other than have 45 years per pass behind the OL and either chuck it up for moss to catch it or throw to welker? The SB showed he does squat when he doesn't have all day to throw.

by Rob L on Feb 14, 2008 4:00 PM EST reply actions

Don't suspend,

don't dock more draft picks, Vacate their titles. They unbalanced the playing field into their favor and shouldn't get the benefits.
As far as the current Pats go, their roster was assembled within the NFL rules (as far as we know) so let them go out and try to win one in a fair game.

So when is Brady going to get his first ring (without cheating), 7 seasons as a starter, the TD record and no title (without cheating) sounds like a choker to me*

*=not really about the choker thing, I hate that term.

my blog <http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com>

by shake n bake on Feb 14, 2008 4:15 PM EST reply actions

Understand where you are coming from but

To go and do things retroactively opens up a new can of worms. There have been other superbowl winners who have actually been proven to have cheated 9most with illegal rosters and cap violations). It would mean that all those teams would have titles vacated. You can't change the past, but I would like to see the NFL step it up on all fronts so this doesn't happen again.

by ZTurgeon on Feb 14, 2008 6:47 PM EST up reply actions

roster and cap violiations

roster and cap violations are a different kettle of worms from blatant video taping EVEN after you have been told not to. Everyones tries to bend the cap rules as far as possible... and if you are referring to 49ers, that was also early in the cap era, when the rules were new and people were seeing exactly how they worked.

and one or two illegal roster spots isn't going to drastically change a team's performance.

i wish all the pats fans would stop trying to justify. It is getting old.

by bluegirl on Feb 15, 2008 7:12 AM EST up reply actions

I understand

I am not justifiying the Pats cheating, but in any sport I dont want records or titles taken away. The 49ers, the Broncos did it so they could have Davis and Elway, Bonds did steroids to break the record, and Hank Aaron used greenies. Point is to go and take something away in the past seems to open up a new set of problems. I just think they should be more focused on making sure every team, pats included, doesnt cheat so this type of stuff doesnt occure again 10 years down the road.

by ZTurgeon on Feb 15, 2008 2:51 PM EST up reply actions

Cheating is cheating

Just wanted to respond to those that feel that the tapes couldn't have helped much.

Let's compare them to steroids. Steroids don't make you a better hitter - if I were to take steroids starting today, doesn't mean I'm going to play in the MLB next year. But, it's something that's not allowed because it gives an unfair advantage to those that uses it. Bonds would still be an unbelievably good player if he hadn't used steroids, but probably wouldn't have broken 755.

So it's not about whether or not it helped you much. Point is, you broke the law and you cheated. "How much" is really a different issue.

by Bluebulb1 on Feb 14, 2008 4:45 PM EST reply actions

Not to nitpick but...

I hear this a lot and I am just trying to help other Colts fans (like me!) not get embarassed in a football debate...

One should be careful to point out that Brady did not "break Manning's single season TD record". Although Manning did it 'faster', the record has a defined length of one season. It doesnt matter if he threw 49 in 5 games and sat the rest of the season, Brady still beat the record.

All you can really say is that Peyton threw 49 and sat 6 full quarters that season, getting to 49 WAY before Brady (and not running up the score on crap teams). So factually, Peyton is the fastest QB to 49 TDs. Brady needed 16 full games and ALL the calls in the world to break it. See any of my other posts in regards to how I feel about that.

The Colts are the reigning AFC Super Bowl Champ.
Small market team - 100% Heart, 0% Media fawning over us, 0% Cameras for cheating, 0% Special handling from the League.

by WhoaWhoaRobertMathis on Feb 14, 2008 7:47 PM EST reply actions

I actually feel bad for these Pats fans.

I was glad they lost the super bowl and I readily rubbed it in. That is what they did to us, for three weeks, and would still be doing so if they had won it all. "See, this proves Brady is better and Manning is a choker, blah, blah, blah..." Once they lost, they had it coming to them. Talk about the ultimate loss, not to mention a third straight year without a ring. And all this for a bunch of fans determined to prove Brady's superiority at the expense of their team's accomplishment. But I'm off track now.

However, I can't blame a fan for being a fan. I am one myself, just for a better team ;) I also can't blame them for their hesitance to accept this and their frustration over its discussion. I would feel the same way, but it is going to be discussed. The fans wanted to be proud of a great team. They never wanted this. Most that I know want it called out and dealt with if it is true, and they want it to stop for the future.

A dirty coach was probably not alone in his deeds, but the fans of the team were not part of it. It happened, and to what degree may soon be revealed or may never be known. But the fans of the team are as much the victims here as anybody. How tragic.

by coltsfanawalt on Feb 14, 2008 7:51 PM EST reply actions

Thanks...

...coltsfanwalt. That was a pretty fair statement.

As odd as this may sound, I'm hoping it's isolated. However, I'm not hopeful of that. I think, like baseball, this is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm not wishing for that mind you, but I do think it will turn out that way. If Specter is to be balanced, he'll come after the NFL as a whole. I'm not sure anyone wants that, but I could be wrong.

by MaPatsFan on Feb 14, 2008 8:24 PM EST up reply actions

What's next?

So, we've got Belichick, who apparently has been cheating since he became the head coach of the Pats. He's accomplished everything any NFL head coach could ever want (albeit not entirely honestly), and has punched his ticket to Canton. If I'm Bill Belichick, I'm retiring. Right now. Forget the draft. Forget next season. I'm going to walk away, and keep the NFL and a crazy congressman from Pennsylvania from destroying my reputation and my accomplishments. Because truthfully, if Arlen Specter wants to destroy the Patriots, he can. If they start talking about revisiting the anti-trust exemption, the NFL is going to freak out, and start handing out post-season bans and vacating titles.

As far as Brady is concerned, his own legacy is tied into this as well. He can use the Barry Bonds argument, where he says "I'm just the QB, the coaching staff gives me the plays to run and I go from there.". On the other hand, if it's proven that the Pats staff was telling him what the defense will be doing, or he was watching ill-gotten game tape, he's culpable as well.

So, what did he know?

Check out my blog, Sports Circuits! - http://sportscircuits.wordpress.com/

by MonkeyBusiness on Feb 14, 2008 9:47 PM EST reply actions

Question....

I, personally, think this investigation by Spectre will go nowhere. It seems to me he lords this threat over the NFL every time something pops up that pisses him off...his credibility is questionable. Kick Bellichick out of the league for a few years and any other coach who knowingly violated league rules...maybe the team knew, maybe not -- we shall see..
The question I have is two fold...
Wouldn't the owners like to do away with the antitrust staus anyway? Without it, there would be no draft -- talented athletes would potentially go to any team, not the one with the worst record. Teams would be on the hook for negotiating all of their own advertising rights..thereby generating more money for themselves..there would be no salary cap, so large market teams generating the most revenue would be able to pay for the best talent and the biggest stadiums...
And..
With this coming up in November..
PHOENIX -- The NFL Players Association expects team owners to pull out of their labor agreement in November but union executive director Gene Upshaw said he was hopeful talks would lead to an extension.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2008-02-01-upshaw-union_N.htm

What happens if owners do not agree on a new deal...

I wouldn't bother you guys, but I'm bored at work and the diaries and posts are interesting... other sites are full of 13 yr old idiots who resort to name calling three replies in and others there is no response to legitimate posts or questions...

"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win." Sun Tzu

by OneMore on Feb 15, 2008 8:42 AM EST reply actions