Vince Young lacks the mental toughness to play in the NFL
by Brad Wells on May 27, 2008 12:01 PM EDT
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Photo: Jamie Squire / Getty Images |
We Colts fans (and AFC South fans in general) have had our fun at Vince Young's expense. Vince is a highly talented athlete who, let's face it, is not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree. To put it bluntly, the dude is dumber than a sack of hammers. You don't need a Wonderlic test to know this, as Vince pretty routinely says and does stupid things. Since 2006, the Titans have dumbed down an already dumbed down offense in order to help Vince Young progress, and all it has done is produce 30 INTs and only 21 TDs from the University of Texas product. In 2007, Vince Young averaged a 6.7 yards per completion, fumbled 10 times (lost 3 of them), and generated a QB rating of 71.1. We saw him pout, whine, physically attack teammates, and (when crunch time came) he sat on the sidelines and watched Kerry Collins lead the Titans into the playoffs.
Yet, despite his horrid play, bad leadership, laziness, and questionable off-the-field conduct that had him disciplined by the Titans, we saw numerous apologists make excuse after excuse for Vince Young's actions. Now, the excuses need to stop and Titans fans need to start seeing reality. They need to start clamoring for change if they ever want to see their team in a Super Bowl anytime soon.
They need to start screaming for Vince to get cut. Not traded. Not benched. C-U-T. Cut.
Why? Because following his rookie season, which saw him win the 2006 Rookie of the Year award and a trip to the Pro Bowl, Vince Young nearly quit football because it was, essentially, too hard:
"I really thought long and hard about it," Young said on Thursday after practice. "There was so much going on with my family. It was crazy being an NFL quarterback. It wasn't fun anymore. All of the fun was out of it. All of the excitement was gone. All I was doing was worrying about things.
Translation:
Seriously. Are you kidding me!
Could you imagine if someone like Peyton Manning or Eli Manning had said something like this following any of the seasons prior to them winning Super Bowls. Media trolls and, likely, the same people making excuses for Vince Young would have jumped all over it, propping it up and using it as an example of how the Mannings are nothing more than spoiled little rich kids who choke under pressure. If Donovan McNabb had ever said ANYTHING even remotely close to Vince Young's confession, Philly media and fans would boo him every single time he set foot on the field. However, when Vince Young says he almost quit on his team, fanbase, and the NFL following a very successful rookie season, we get nary a peep from Vince fans.
Typical, I know.
For years, I told Jaguars fans that Byron Leftwich, another over-rated first round bust of a QB whose fans made all kinds of excuses for, needed to get cut in order for Jacksonville to take its team to the next level. Yet the Jags held out hope for "Fatty McButterpants" to finally come around, even though he couldn't do the most basic task a QB is required to do in the NFL: Throw accurately from the pocket. The same is now true for the Titans. If Titans fans want to see their club actually win games and go somewhere in the playoffs, they need to get rid of Vince Young and start over.
Real NFL QBs with a desire to work hard and win do not legitimately contemplate retirement after their rookie seasons. You can draw any kind of conclusion you want from Vince Young's statement, and likely spin it into an excuse. Maybe he had family problems. Maybe he was dealing with personal issues. Maybe he was just talking out of his ass.
Maybe, but doubtful.
The reason Vince Young likely contemplated quitting football was because, unlike college football, you actually have to WORK to be good. No more showing up on game day and "doing your thing." You must live, eat, breath, and sleep football for close to 300 days a year, minimum. You don't just show up and play. You work, and work, and work, and work, and work some more. Then, you play the games. It seems here that Vince doesn't like the work part of playing football. It isn't "fun."
Please, pass the Patron and cry me a river.
You will pardon me if I have little sympathy for someone who thinks that football isn't "fun" even though he was paid $26 million in signing bonus money. Heaven forbid Vince Young actually had to work in order to justify that money before he ever tried to throw an NFL pass. I will likely get flamed for this story, as I always do when I call Vince Young out for the fraud he is. But sometimes the truth hurts and people lash out at the messenger rather than face reality. This has nothing to do with the University of Texas or the Tennessee Titans. Both are excellent institutions in their own rights. This is about a player who is held to a different (and lesser) standard than other players at his position, and is given a pass when other players are not. Sports both builds and reveals character, and in Vince's case professional sports has revealed much of his inner life. He is not a hard worker. He is not a clutch player.
He is not a franchise QB.
Like I always say with Vince Young: If he ever turns it around and develops into a real quarterback, I'll be the first one to stand up and say I was wrong. However, I doubt that will happen. Vince Young is likely yet another over-rated college star who lacks the toughness, character, and work ethic necessary to become a great NFL player. His recent comments enforce this, and if his play continues to stagnate, it will be hard to take Vince apologists seriously anymore.
Jimmy at Music City Miracles also commented on Vince Young's "retirement" talk today as well.
UPDATE: Even Peter King thinks Vince Young is a sketchy character, and the Titans should be concerned:
I think if I'm the Titans, I'm not feeling very good about my quarterback right now. Did you see what Vince Young told Thomas George of NFL.com?
...
Wow. The Titans hand Young the keys to their franchise, he misses a plane to one of his rookie-year games (Philadelphia), and now he admits he thought of quitting at the end of the year? Now there's a solid guy.
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Cut?
I’m sure they could sucker some team into trading for him. They got a 4th rounder for a fantastically talented moron that was (and is) still suspended from the NFL. I’m sure some desperate team could pin there hopes on Young (like the Titans are doing now).
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
Trades
Trades take time. As long as this idiot is still on the titans, they have no shot. None. Zero. Subjectively, I want Vince Young to stay because the Colts defense pummels him. However, if I were a Titans fan, I’d want him gone NOW!
Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
(ixnay on the Vince ashingbay! We don’t want the Titans to wise up!)
HEY TITANS FANS! ISN’T VY GREAT? TELL YOUR GM YOU WANT VY TO BE YOUR QB FOR THE NEXT 15 YEARS!!!! WOOHOO!!!
In all seriousness
Young does still have time to turn his career around. I made this argument with Leinart in another thread; the sample size is pretty small at this point. The main difference between Young and Leinart is that at least Leinart can throw reasonably accurately from the pocket. So the most basic aspect of quarterbacking in the NFL is there for Leinart and not for Young.
Both QBs have been disappointing, but I think Leinart has a better chance of turning things around. It could still happen for Young, but he’s gonna have to work his ass off to be a functional starter.
Vince Young
He’s gonna be fine. He’s 25 years old, had a good first year and a bad second one. Most likely, he’ll be above average when he’s 28 or so. Funny how we can give a free pass on WR because they take time to develop into NFL stuff, but we forget that QB may do too. It’s not like he’ll be Peyton Manning ever in his life, but he’ll be productive.
And about his quote, I didn’t read anything that speaks against him. He said that it’s hard and ‘no fun’ to play in the NFL, which is the not-so-clever way to say the truth. And, fine, we get it, he’s not smart. But many of the NFL players aren’t as well.
Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone
Smart
Listen, you pretty much have to be fairly smart to be an NFL QB. There is a difference between “smart” and “wise” and it seems that Vince Young has neither of these qualities. Leinart on the other hand is very “smart,” he can run a pro-offense, but he is not very “wise” as was seen in the photos of him in the hot tub.
Leinart has hope because you can correct one fault, but Vince just has too many problems. He has amazing physical skills, but those skills are complementary skills for the QB position. Without the foundation of brains and accuracy a QB just cannot succeed at the pro level.
Look men, this is Theater of the Obvious.
You’re looking at a then 23-year-old millionaire, pointing a finger, and saying, “See! He’s immature!” Y’know what? Maybe he is. In fact, as you read through that NFL.com piece, the subtext is, pretty obviously, that he’s been dealing with a lot of what most folks would call “Learning Experiences,” and although he’s struggled, he’s come through more committed than ever. In fact, there’s nothing wrong with that.
Seriously, I get that this is a Colts blog, and that you’re supposed to bash your opponents, but I will tell you that I remember Peyton Manning’s first two years, and they weren’t pretty. It wasn’t until Year 3 that he really started to look like what he is today. And the team Young inherited was no worse than those old Colts teams, he’s just done more with what he was given.
DannoE
Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Go Titans!
He is given...
A top 5 defense, a great line, and a top five running game. He’s given an amazing team. If Young would stop throwing the ball to the other team, the Titans would be in the playoffs w/a first round bye and perhaps in the AFC championship game.
OH, by the way, Peyton’s 1st year Colts went 3-13, and the following year went 13-3. Do your homework before comparing a donkey to a stallion.
"GO HORSE!"
I wasn't gonna call the Colts a bunch of donkeys. That's rude.
DannoE
Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Go Titans!
The vince young comparison to Peyton Manning was the metafor
for comparing a donkey to a stallion
"GO HORSE!"
Ummmm...
• “A top 5 defense”... well his first year it was a ‘last in the league’ defense and he got us 1 game away from the playoffs despite Kerry Collins losing the first 4 games.
• “a great line”... damned right it is
• “a top five running game.”... really? REALLY? Somebody in here let me know when LenDale became a top-flight running back. I know we racked up yards in some games but if you think our rushing attack was top 5 last year (not counting VY’s scrambles) then you’re kidding yourself.
We’re good, but we haven’t been that good. VY has been a HUGE part of why we’ve won even if the stats don’t show it.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
Last year hey had all of those things
and all he did was hurt your talanted team.
"GO HORSE!"
Almost true
Except for the part that Peyton Manning set rookie records for yards, completions and touchdowns and he did all of this with a very bad team. Also, in his second year he threw for 4.135 yards and 26 td’s. In those 16 games Manning almost has as many yards and td’s as Vince Young has had in 32 games so please don’t even try to compare Manning with Vince Young.
by MasterRWayne on May 27, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Vince Young is "more committed than ever"?
What evidence do you have of this? All I’ve seen is pictures of him getting drunk with his buddies this off-season. Please point me to something saying how he’s coming along with the new offense.
Supposedly the reason for Young’s bad season was Norm Chow, correct? And there is a new offensive coordinator this year, correct? Why in the world is he not spending every day working with him, learning this new offense. He obviously has more talent than many NFL players, and still believes that talent alone will win NFL games. This is a lesson he has not learned yet, and I don’t see anything he’s done this offseason to tell us otherwise.
I hate to use Tony Romo as an example for commitment, but he paid $9K to a guy because he backed out of a celebrity golf outing to attend voluntary OTAs with the Cowboys. You can of course say he never should have agreed to play in the Pro-Am, but Romo will not be learning a new offense this year, and had a much better season than Young did last season. He knows he has lots of work to do, and is doing everything he can to become better.
"Why in the world is he not spending every day working with him,..."
VY scheduled his classes at UT on Monday and Tuesday so that he could fly into Nashville and work one-on-one with ‘Dinger for the rest of the week. He’s shown commitment to the team. Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t make it any less true.
Vince is doing fine this off season and he’s finally learning from a NFL offensive coordinator, not a college guy. I get the feeling you’ll see a lot of doubter quieted over the next few years.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
Lucky
It’s a good thing Vince Young is a talented athlete because he would be a bum if he was a normal person. Seriously, hard work? Pressure? You don’t have a family to support. You are paid millions. If you don’t do well, you get cut and still have your 18 million dollar guaranteed contract. VY doesn’t know pressure. The media is in love with him. Where is the pressure coming from? I haven’t heard anyone in the media besides Merrill Hoge bash VY. I’m happy I called him as a bust when he was drafted. I love being right. I also called Reggie Bush, but that was out of pure hatred of him.
coltshomer.blogspot.com=my blog, Pro-Colts Stuff. Check it out.
I have a family that I support. Not sure what your point there is.
I’m also not sure how Romo’s attendance rate is relevant, but if it makes you fell any better, I personally paid a charity an extra $100 when I had to back out of a recent triathlon. I mean, I’m no Romo, but that seems about as relevant.
At any rate, Vince has been at the Titans OTAs.
DannoE
Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Go Titans!
What I'm Saying Is
The pressure of Vince Young’s job compared to a normal person is miniscule, since he still has 18 million no matter what he does and no one depends on him.
coltshomer.blogspot.com=my blog, Pro-Colts Stuff. Check it out.
BBS
Hi, BBS
This is the fan formerly on Stampede Blue as Titansfan10 anyway, just wanted to say you are a great guy, and I can’t wait to bring this article back up at the end of this upcoming season.
Have a good on colts fans!
Someone once said "Vince Young bleeds two toned blue!" But I disagree, because The Great One Doesnt Bleed!!
If Vince Young plays well
I encourage you to do so. I’ll even front page it, with a picture of me with a little “dunce” cap on.
Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
A sample of VY's offseason workout plan
Vince Young’s White Tee Party @ the ROC Wednesdays – 5.14.08
Vince Young’s Invite Only Pool Party at the Westside Tennis Club – 5.15.08
Vince Young’s Birthday Weekend KickOff Party & Premiere of the iBar – 5.16.08
Vince, Shawn Marion & Jevon Kearse host Baby Blue Carpet Affair @ Club Level – 5.17.08
Vince Young Bday BBQ Cookout & Daytime party at the Red Door – 5.18.08
Lil Wayne, Lloyd, Mannie Fresh, Lil Keke at Vince Young Bday Bash at BAR RIO – 5.18.08
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
can't seem to make it work... out....
Ok, I hear you. Whining about a NFL quarterback’s income is pointless, and very often a sign of jealousy, and sure Vince Young is under a lot of pressure, but I think the point is that the pressure on Vince Young is amplified by his incredible poor judgment both on and off the field. (Especially on it.) It’s the same frustration my son had when learning to tie his shoes. He simply couldn’t figure it out… Come to think of it maybe it will take him 5 years. And you bet your life I’m thankful to face him 2 times a season.
I Am Not Whining About His Income
I am saying that there are much worse situations that someone can be in and that the pressure is not at the height it can be at. If anything, saying this will increase pressure.
Salaries are paid by the company’s income and supply and demand. Whining about salaries is pointless, and most salaries are justified.
coltshomer.blogspot.com=my blog, Pro-Colts Stuff. Check it out.
by Colts Homer on May 27, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
no better way to show you're a troll than crap on a guy who has played about 10 bad
games in his entire lifetime.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
13 NFL games with a QB rating under 65
8 with a QB rating under 50
7 NFL games with a QB rating over 90
No one is saying he wasn’t a great college player (I even rooted for him because I hated the way ESPN was all over USC’s junk).
But since he made it to the NFL he’s had more awful games than great ones and more bad games the mediocre performances.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
QB ratings will never tell the whole story
It’s a borderline useless tool as any statistician will tell you, and that’s even more so the case when the QB scrambles regularly… sometimes 60 yards for the OT win.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Well
Falcons fans said the same about Vick. Look at where they got them.
by MasterRWayne on May 28, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't realize felony convictions were part of the formula.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
There are better tools
but QB rating is the most universally used, available and understood. I think it shows pretty clearly that he’s not been a good passer by any means.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
he's not consistent yet, but lets see what happens the next 2 years before we close the book
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
No
They hate us because we OWN them and the division.
by MasterRWayne on May 28, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
No, not really. 'coltsfanawait' was much closer to the truth, chief.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
True Dat
coltshomer.blogspot.com=my blog, Pro-Colts Stuff. Check it out.
by Colts Homer on May 28, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I am glad...
I am glad you Titans have Vince Young. It ensures a good 4-5 years of wasted seasons.
Also, if the Titans thought so highly of Young then why haven’t they brought in any receivers via the draft or free agency? Instead they have focused on their line and running game because Fisher knows they have to win in spite of Vince Young not because of him. Just remember Fisher wanted to draft Leinart it was only when the dumb ass owner stepped in that the Titans went with Young.
But the Titans loss is our gain!
Are we still talking about this?
Man, when’s the OJ Simpson/Marvin Harrison “Find the REAL Shooters!” Cuise? That’s what I really want to know.
DannoE
Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Go Titans!
We'll start the cause
When Marvin is actually charged with committing a crime.
Bullets Forever: Where fancy numbers and YouTube come together.
by Jake Whitacre on May 28, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Marvin wasn’t involved with any shooting. Let’s wait and see if there is anything to draw him to the shooting.
coltshomer.blogspot.com=my blog, Pro-Colts Stuff. Check it out.
by Colts Homer on May 28, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, it's precious to see Manning defenders call somebody a whiner
because Peyton never whined and hemmed and hawed at all, I swear.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
link it
or it didn’t happen
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
workking so I can't spend all day collecting links but here's a few highlights:
• After you guys collapsed against the Steelers in the AFC championship game
• After any penalty against Indy ever
• After almost any sack
• Getting all huffy after being criticized by a kicker
Hell, even Bret Favre and Tom Brady whine on occasion. It’s a tough position and there’s a lot of retards out there criticizing you. I’m not blaming Peyton, just pointing out that VY’s not the first QB to reflect on things in a tough and truthful manner.
Using people like Peter King to back up your points just proves how stupid the reasoning is.
If any of you mouthbreathing douchecanoes had bothered to read the full interview, you’d realize that the retirement mention is 1 measly sentence, and the rest of the article is about how dedicated he is to the game, the team and the community.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
on the field is different
guys can get caught up in the moment and get frustrated. I can forgive on the field stuff much more easily. Something you’re saying in an offseason interview is different because you are far removed from the game and (hopefully if you know what you’re doing at all) have thought about things before you say them.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
wow I don't know how I read over that
mouthbreathing douchecanoes
That’s awesome, I’m using that one in the future.
Vanderjagt took shots at Peyton and Dungy and Manning fired back.
After the 2002 season, Vanderjagt put himself in the center of a media firestorm in an interview for the Canadian television network The Score, on their “Score Tonight” primetime show. After a 41-0 playoff loss to the New York Jets, he criticized Colts quarterback Peyton Manning for not showing more emotion, and implied that head coach Tony Dungy was too placid and not enough of a motivator. He apologized several days later for his remarks, but Manning later fired back in a sideline interview at the Pro Bowl, referring to him as “our idiot kicker who got liquored up and ran his mouth off.”
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Here is your link
http://prayformojo.blogspot.com/2007/11/peyton-manning-chalks-bad-game-up-to.html
And please keep bashing Vince. What you guys don’t realize is that this is exactly what happened in the middle of his sophomore year of college. Just keep talking…
Yes linking "This is the sports humor site that gets results."
is reputable. He said about one sentance of what he’s quoted as saying there,
“we had some protection problems that put us in some bad situations,”
That’s a quote that gets him bashed, unjustly. He said we, that includes himself since he was making the protection calls.
Is a guy that says “we lost because we played badly” attacking his teammates?
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
looks funny though
I’ll check it out while you guys look for real quotes of him bashing his teammates.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, How bout this
“Peyton has never lacked for directness with his teammates. He famously called his kicker, Mike Vanderjagt, "an idiot" after Vanderjagt criticized his demeanor on the field, and he took a not-so-subtle jab at his offensive line after the playoff loss to the Steelers last season, citing "problems in protection" as the reason for the Colts’ offensive breakdown.”
Its from the New York FUCKING Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/20/sports/playmagazine/20manning.html
I love that you criticize the source when you know damn well that it happened. You should only criticize the source when the information itself is questionable. Every Colts fan knows that Peyton said these things, because every one of your non-Colts friends gave you shit about it.
Would you like more sources, Shake? Is there anything else that Google and I can do for you?
you linked a humor website the first time
They were making up quotes to make (funny) jokes about Peyton. Any link to a website that’s reporting fact instead of making jokes would have been a fine source. Both the quotes you mentioned have already been talked about in this comment section.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
we all know what he said
Was quickly linking a reference to the instance after your childish “link it” reply. But whatever. I’ll try to link scientific journals next time. Sorry about that. Oh, and you misspelled “sentence”. Do you believe me, or should I link to a dictionary?
Defensive much?
I honestly don’t think asking for a link to a reputable source is asking too much, but perhaps y’all do things differently in Titanland.
The link it was to get a specific quote
specified. I didn’t feel like going through every quote that Peyton’s said that could be stretched into whining or criticizing teammates.
YOU LINKED A SITE THAT WAS MAKING UP QUOTES FOR COMIC EFFECT.
That’s either a dumb mistake or a dishonest attempt to discredit Peyton Manning.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Read your comment again, Shake.
“The link it was to get a specific quote specified.”
That is not even English. I guess we do, in fact, do things differently in Titanland. I’ll cop to dumb mistake, if it must be one or the other. I would never want to be characterized as attempting to discredit Peyton Manning.
So, for the record, dumb mistake by me. Shake, you are truly a gentleman and a scholar. Good luck in all your future endeavors.
I still preferred the original
Vince Young is not even in the same freaking universe as Vince Young!
Y’know, that would really explain a lot about Vince if you really think about it. :D
But I think SuperHorn has a point here. Let’s compare their stats in the second year:
Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Vince Young 62.3 2546 9 2.4 17 4.5 73 6.7 4.9 10.7 169.7 71.1 Steve Young 53.7 2282 8 2.2 13 3.6 46 6.3 4.9 11.7 163.0 65.5
While Vince did rush more than Steve did (93 carries to 74), I’d argue that VY was still about as efficient of a passer. He may have thrown a few more INTs but his overall completion percentage is a lot better than the future HOFer at the same point in their respective careers.
Bullets Forever: Where fancy numbers and YouTube come together.
by Jake Whitacre on May 28, 2008 12:58 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The 1986 league leader in completion %
completed only 63% of his passes. Last year it was 69%.
There were only 3 QBs with passer ratings in the 90s in 86, last year there were 3 with QB ratings over 100 and 8 over 90.
The passing game has gotten better (rule changes and the west coast offense).
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
That's a valid point
And I also forgot to throw in the whole “He was playing for the Tampa Bay Creamsicles Buccaneers” part, but I don’t think the change from then until now is dramatic enough to invalidate the comparison.
I’m not trying to be a Vince apologist here - he still has a long way to go before he can be considered a legit franchise QB - but let’s not go deep off of the other end either.
Bullets Forever: Where fancy numbers and YouTube come together.
by Jake Whitacre on May 28, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
finally, a voice of moderation in this malaise of commentors
/guilty of getting pissy as well.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
Judging by how far you folks have had to backtrack since BSS was called out on this horsesh*t post
Can we agree to give it a rest and see if VY can fulfill his potential? Nobody has come over here with hyperbole about how great VY is, so why all of the ignorant, mean-spirited and baseless comments about him from the Colts fan’s side?
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
I don't see anyone backtracking
Read the very first paragraph of the story again. Find something factually incorrect. BBS used statistics (which are not very good), and provided 5 articles of things Young has done. He also was, in fact, on the sideline when the Titans won in Week 17, clinching a playoff berth.
He’s also exactly right in that every indication seems as though he doesn’t want to put in the work to get better. While it is certainly up for argument, let’s say for argument’s sake he has the most talent in the NFL. You will get many different people’s opinion on this, but it is certainly possible that player is Vince Young, and nobody here has said anything to the contrary about his physical abilities. His problem, and I said this earlier, is that he thinks he can win football games in the NFL purely on athletic ability.
‘Norm Chow kept trying to run an offense not suited for Young’ has been the most common excuse, and I bet there is some truth to that. However, Chow does run an NFL offense, which works very well with a passing quarterback, which he did not have in 3 seasons in Tennessee. I ask you, what makes you think Heimerdinger’s offense will be suited for Young? Is he going to let Young “dance?” What, from his previous stint as OC for the Titans, makes you think Young will succeed? He took over an offense that was already in the Top 10 in the NFL, and kept it there, which is a good sign. However, from 2001-2003, they were ranked 4th, 7th, and 1st in passing offense, which is the reason they were in the Top 10 in offense. McNair was worlds better at throwing the football than Young is.
I find it rather humorous that Titan fans talk about how Chow ran a “college” offense. The offense Young ran at UT was a “college” offense, and obviously he was fantastic at it. He was the best athlete on the field for every game he played in, and if he didn’t find his first, or maybe second option open, he’d take off for a 10 yard gain. That works great in college, but not in the NFL. Defenses adjust so much more quickly.
Also, you mentioned nobody came here with hyperbole about how great Young is? Nearly every quarterback mentioned in the “he was bad his first 2 years too” is in, or will be in the Hall of Fame. I could list you hundreds of quarterbacks who were bad their first two years, and they stayed bad. Again, Young’s talent alone will not make him a 4 year washout in the NFL. However, if he cannot come to grips on the mental demand of the position of quarterback in the NFL, he will not be a success, no matter if he is the most physically gifted player in the NFL.
there are too many stupid and incorrect statements in your comment to address in full, but here's a taste of it:
• Those 5 articles are misleading at best. Neither of the things tagged ‘stupid’ or ‘dumb’ are actually stupid or dumb unless you’re a nitpicking idiot who belongs on the back water or the Huffingtonpost. VY was on the sidelines against Indy’s scrubs because he’d had a severe quad injury that was hush hush the last half of the year which prevented him from playing his game. He’s played really well against Indy every other time (a 95 in you precious passer rating the first game of the year), so why do you guys always go back to a point when he was obviously hurt?
• The stats are not pretty until you get to the win column, then they don’t look so bad for a then 24 year-old QB who was thrown to the wolves on a team that was in a malaise before his arrival. After just 2 years, we’ll take it, but he MUST improve
• Your assertion that he ‘doesn’t want to put in the work’ shows how ignorant and biased you are on this! He’s been working with our new OC regularly off season, even scheduling his classes so that he could! What do you want? A public itinerary and diet schedule submitted for your fcking approval? Just because you don’t read the practice notes in the Tennesseean or make an effort to learn something that’s not filtered through a national writer who doesn’t have time to watch dick doesn’t make anyone lazy but yourself when you try to be an expert on it.
• Chow’s offense was not a Pro offense. It had some elements, but until it succeeds in the pro game, it ain’t a pro offense. Chow ran a cobbled together mixture of some Pro sets, but mostly college plays from his BYU days. He’d never built a scheme against a pro defense, he sucked at play calling and our receivers NEVER IMPROVED A SPEC NO MATTER WHO WAS THROWING THE BALL. Maybe you are so spoiled you don’t realize that not every QB has Harrison, Wayne, a good slot guy and Clark out there on every play.
These are just a few of the reasons you’re arguments are self-serving and totally detached from any reasonable context. I’m not saying he’s amazing yet, but you fckers just trashing him are pathetically off base. So you’d be wise to SHUT UP, SIT BACK AND WATCH WHAT HAPPENS!
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
you say QB rating isn't a good measure of performance
but you cite wins?
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
yup. QB leads a team. If team wins, then you can settle everything else out later
if VY was a 6 year vet it would be different. But when said QB isn’t even old enough to rent a car at most places then he gets a little leeway.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
I don't think I trashed him
Your first two bullets are fine. BBS goes over the top sometimes on his assessments, and he’ll be the first to tell you that. While some of those wins were because of Young, some others were in spite of him, as the Titans defense was fantastic, or Bironas made lots of field goals, etc.
I’m going to be “lazy” again, but I’m hoping you know the answer to this. Did Young attend all voluntary OTAs last season, and work with Chow regularly in the off season? I’m going to assume that he did, being a young player, and one who is dedicated to winning, right? What about Heimerdinger’s past tells you and me and the rest of us that the “real” Vince Young will emerge this year, or next year, or any time in the future? If he was fully committed, you wouldn’t see him in the tabloids.
Chow was in the NFL for 3 seasons, where he had McNair for one season, and Young for 2. Maybe the words I should have used were that Chow has an offense that depends heavily on the pass, which is becoming more and more the norm in the NFL. Obviously not all teams are the same. I agree that Chow was not a good fit with the personnel in Tennessee. However, to say that it has to succeed in the NFL to be an NFL offense is not correct. Carson Palmer did quite well in it, as did Leinart. And Chow was not the Receivers coach, I don’t believe. Maybe they should have fired that guy as well.
The reason we have so much more faith in 'Dinger
is that above all, he made players better. Derrick Mason, Drew Bennett, Justin McCariens, Frank Wychek and E. Kinney were all guys who came from obscurity to perform VERY well for our team and get us to a Super Bowl, another AFC Championship and multiple playoff runs. He also was notorious for holding players accountable and demanding improvement.
During Norm Chow’s tenure we acquired god knows how many WRs who could run, catch and play, but not a single one of them improved while they were here (the one exception may be Justin Gage, but that’s debatable). That’s almost always a sign of poor coaching and that was never a problem with ‘Dinger.
Vince has always attended OTAs, and even flew the WRs to Houston to work with him in the offseason while the rest of the team was on vacation. He decided to go back to school and take a few classes towards his degree this year, but the staff told him to go for it because he scheduled classes on Mondays and Tuesdays so that he could fly back to Nashville and work with the coaches.
So that’s where I’m coming from. The media likes to create their story lines because they expect us to be as lazy as they are. So often, however, the truth is much different than they understand.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
"BBS goes over the top sometimes on his assessments, and he’ll be the first to tell you that."
I knew there was a reason I never read this blog. Why go over the top when you know it’s not reflecting reality? I guess some people dig it but that’s just really not my style.
I probably wouldn’t have gotten so irate if I knew people were just trying be provocative and snarky.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
It's an opinion and a prediction
It can go beyond what’s provable now. We’ll see if he’s right and if he isn’t then you can go around calling him/us mouthbreathing douchecanoes.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
predictions are cool, but what's in that post above is flat-out wishing failure upon someone
and mean-spirited accusations. That’s why some people popped over to challenge them.
Also, I’ve called other people mouthbreathers, and I’ve called other people douchecanoes, but I’ll reserve the combo just for the Stampede Blue community!
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
Easy there...
Don’t bust a brain cell.
by TouchdownMonkey on May 28, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Titans fans,
you are right. Everyone needs to wait and see what happens with the new coordinator. I believe that Peyton has been greatly benefited from the presence of Tom Moore as OC. I am glad he has had that tool. I think that if Vince Young is struggling in two years, the fans will be frustrated and arguing for change. Some won’t, but some will.
I think the Norm Chow argument has credence. It does not guaruntee that Vince will succeed more now, but it is a very valid consideration.
I think that the comparison to the first two seasons of other great QB’s is very legitimate. I think the same can be said for Rex Grossman in Chicago, who flashes tremendous promise but has some issues to work through. In a year or so, both of these QB’s will either hae improved or will have lost the goodwill of their franchises. I think Grossman is on thinner ice in Chicago. However, you hate to throw superstar potential down the drain too soon. Exhaust all other options first. The worst feeling in the world might be watching your castaway go elsewhere and be a superstar. I think VY has that potential there, and I wouldn’t throw him under the bus yet if I was a Titans fan, either.
Also, even if as a fan I had some doubts about Young, I would not appreciate another team’s fans telling me how worthless my QB is, how stupid my franchise is for trying to make the right decision, or how pathetic my hopes are.
Good luck, Titans fans. I hope you lose to us, but make the playoffs. I enjoyed the strength of our division last year. It kept things interesting. I also hope that Dallas gets burned by Pacman, and you all look like geniuses for the trade.
thanks for the level-headed response. good luck as well!
The Colts are a class organization and I love that we get to compete against you guys in the best division in football every year!
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
Well...
I don’t see how you enjoy it… I mean you usually lose to us a lot!
by MasterRWayne on May 28, 2008 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes...
Yes Vince Young could develop just as Rex Grossman could develop, but I fell very safe in wagering that neither of those guys will work out in the NFL. Now sometimes you have a guy that struggles a bit, gets cut and resurects himself later on just like Rich Gannon did. But even in his early days Gannon showed accuracy and skills and I do not see that with Vince Young. Combine that with the retirement talk, punching players and missing team meeting… etc and you have a picture of a emotionally immature person who is not ready for the big time.
But hey what is really great for us Colts fans is that you Titans fans have a MASSIVE hardon for Vince Young and its like the scenario when the ugly dude dates the hot chick and he gets all excited just to see the pretty girl skip town with all of this money.
That is what is going to happen to you Titans fans. Its what happened to Falcons fans and I am going to enjoy every minute of it.
by MasterRWayne on May 28, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
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