Vince Young lacks the mental toughness to play in the NFL
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Photo: Jamie Squire / Getty Images |
We Colts fans (and AFC South fans in general) have had our fun at Vince Young's expense. Vince is a highly talented athlete who, let's face it, is not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree. To put it bluntly, the dude is dumber than a sack of hammers. You don't need a Wonderlic test to know this, as Vince pretty routinely says and does stupid things. Since 2006, the Titans have dumbed down an already dumbed down offense in order to help Vince Young progress, and all it has done is produce 30 INTs and only 21 TDs from the University of Texas product. In 2007, Vince Young averaged a 6.7 yards per completion, fumbled 10 times (lost 3 of them), and generated a QB rating of 71.1. We saw him pout, whine, physically attack teammates, and (when crunch time came) he sat on the sidelines and watched Kerry Collins lead the Titans into the playoffs.
Yet, despite his horrid play, bad leadership, laziness, and questionable off-the-field conduct that had him disciplined by the Titans, we saw numerous apologists make excuse after excuse for Vince Young's actions. Now, the excuses need to stop and Titans fans need to start seeing reality. They need to start clamoring for change if they ever want to see their team in a Super Bowl anytime soon.
They need to start screaming for Vince to get cut. Not traded. Not benched. C-U-T. Cut.
Why? Because following his rookie season, which saw him win the 2006 Rookie of the Year award and a trip to the Pro Bowl, Vince Young nearly quit football because it was, essentially, too hard:
"I really thought long and hard about it," Young said on Thursday after practice. "There was so much going on with my family. It was crazy being an NFL quarterback. It wasn't fun anymore. All of the fun was out of it. All of the excitement was gone. All I was doing was worrying about things.
Translation:
Seriously. Are you kidding me!
Could you imagine if someone like Peyton Manning or Eli Manning had said something like this following any of the seasons prior to them winning Super Bowls. Media trolls and, likely, the same people making excuses for Vince Young would have jumped all over it, propping it up and using it as an example of how the Mannings are nothing more than spoiled little rich kids who choke under pressure. If Donovan McNabb had ever said ANYTHING even remotely close to Vince Young's confession, Philly media and fans would boo him every single time he set foot on the field. However, when Vince Young says he almost quit on his team, fanbase, and the NFL following a very successful rookie season, we get nary a peep from Vince fans.
Typical, I know.
For years, I told Jaguars fans that Byron Leftwich, another over-rated first round bust of a QB whose fans made all kinds of excuses for, needed to get cut in order for Jacksonville to take its team to the next level. Yet the Jags held out hope for "Fatty McButterpants" to finally come around, even though he couldn't do the most basic task a QB is required to do in the NFL: Throw accurately from the pocket. The same is now true for the Titans. If Titans fans want to see their club actually win games and go somewhere in the playoffs, they need to get rid of Vince Young and start over.
Real NFL QBs with a desire to work hard and win do not legitimately contemplate retirement after their rookie seasons. You can draw any kind of conclusion you want from Vince Young's statement, and likely spin it into an excuse. Maybe he had family problems. Maybe he was dealing with personal issues. Maybe he was just talking out of his ass.
Maybe, but doubtful.
The reason Vince Young likely contemplated quitting football was because, unlike college football, you actually have to WORK to be good. No more showing up on game day and "doing your thing." You must live, eat, breath, and sleep football for close to 300 days a year, minimum. You don't just show up and play. You work, and work, and work, and work, and work some more. Then, you play the games. It seems here that Vince doesn't like the work part of playing football. It isn't "fun."
Please, pass the Patron and cry me a river.
You will pardon me if I have little sympathy for someone who thinks that football isn't "fun" even though he was paid $26 million in signing bonus money. Heaven forbid Vince Young actually had to work in order to justify that money before he ever tried to throw an NFL pass. I will likely get flamed for this story, as I always do when I call Vince Young out for the fraud he is. But sometimes the truth hurts and people lash out at the messenger rather than face reality. This has nothing to do with the University of Texas or the Tennessee Titans. Both are excellent institutions in their own rights. This is about a player who is held to a different (and lesser) standard than other players at his position, and is given a pass when other players are not. Sports both builds and reveals character, and in Vince's case professional sports has revealed much of his inner life. He is not a hard worker. He is not a clutch player.
He is not a franchise QB.
Like I always say with Vince Young: If he ever turns it around and develops into a real quarterback, I'll be the first one to stand up and say I was wrong. However, I doubt that will happen. Vince Young is likely yet another over-rated college star who lacks the toughness, character, and work ethic necessary to become a great NFL player. His recent comments enforce this, and if his play continues to stagnate, it will be hard to take Vince apologists seriously anymore.
Jimmy at Music City Miracles also commented on Vince Young's "retirement" talk today as well.
UPDATE: Even Peter King thinks Vince Young is a sketchy character, and the Titans should be concerned:
I think if I'm the Titans, I'm not feeling very good about my quarterback right now. Did you see what Vince Young told Thomas George of NFL.com?
...
Wow. The Titans hand Young the keys to their franchise, he misses a plane to one of his rookie-year games (Philadelphia), and now he admits he thought of quitting at the end of the year? Now there's a solid guy.
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130 comments
Comments
Cut?
I’m sure they could sucker some team into trading for him. They got a 4th rounder for a fantastically talented moron that was (and is) still suspended from the NFL. I’m sure some desperate team could pin there hopes on Young (like the Titans are doing now).
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 27, 2008 12:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Trades
Trades take time. As long as this idiot is still on the titans, they have no shot. None. Zero. Subjectively, I want Vince Young to stay because the Colts defense pummels him. However, if I were a Titans fan, I’d want him gone NOW!
Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
by BigBlueShoe on May 27, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
(ixnay on the Vince ashingbay! We don’t want the Titans to wise up!)
HEY TITANS FANS! ISN’T VY GREAT? TELL YOUR GM YOU WANT VY TO BE YOUR QB FOR THE NEXT 15 YEARS!!!! WOOHOO!!!
by ctnyc on May 27, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In all seriousness
Young does still have time to turn his career around. I made this argument with Leinart in another thread; the sample size is pretty small at this point. The main difference between Young and Leinart is that at least Leinart can throw reasonably accurately from the pocket. So the most basic aspect of quarterbacking in the NFL is there for Leinart and not for Young.
Both QBs have been disappointing, but I think Leinart has a better chance of turning things around. It could still happen for Young, but he’s gonna have to work his ass off to be a functional starter.
by ctnyc on May 27, 2008 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vince Young
He’s gonna be fine. He’s 25 years old, had a good first year and a bad second one. Most likely, he’ll be above average when he’s 28 or so. Funny how we can give a free pass on WR because they take time to develop into NFL stuff, but we forget that QB may do too. It’s not like he’ll be Peyton Manning ever in his life, but he’ll be productive.
And about his quote, I didn’t read anything that speaks against him. He said that it’s hard and ‘no fun’ to play in the NFL, which is the not-so-clever way to say the truth. And, fine, we get it, he’s not smart. But many of the NFL players aren’t as well.
Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone
by MerryGoByeBye on May 27, 2008 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Smart
Listen, you pretty much have to be fairly smart to be an NFL QB. There is a difference between “smart” and “wise” and it seems that Vince Young has neither of these qualities. Leinart on the other hand is very “smart,” he can run a pro-offense, but he is not very “wise” as was seen in the photos of him in the hot tub.
Leinart has hope because you can correct one fault, but Vince just has too many problems. He has amazing physical skills, but those skills are complementary skills for the QB position. Without the foundation of brains and accuracy a QB just cannot succeed at the pro level.
by MasterRWayne on May 27, 2008 12:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Look men, this is Theater of the Obvious.
You’re looking at a then 23-year-old millionaire, pointing a finger, and saying, “See! He’s immature!” Y’know what? Maybe he is. In fact, as you read through that NFL.com piece, the subtext is, pretty obviously, that he’s been dealing with a lot of what most folks would call “Learning Experiences,” and although he’s struggled, he’s come through more committed than ever. In fact, there’s nothing wrong with that.
Seriously, I get that this is a Colts blog, and that you’re supposed to bash your opponents, but I will tell you that I remember Peyton Manning’s first two years, and they weren’t pretty. It wasn’t until Year 3 that he really started to look like what he is today. And the team Young inherited was no worse than those old Colts teams, he’s just done more with what he was given.
DannoE
Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Go Titans!
by DannoE on May 27, 2008 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He is given...
A top 5 defense, a great line, and a top five running game. He’s given an amazing team. If Young would stop throwing the ball to the other team, the Titans would be in the playoffs w/a first round bye and perhaps in the AFC championship game.
OH, by the way, Peyton’s 1st year Colts went 3-13, and the following year went 13-3. Do your homework before comparing a donkey to a stallion.
"GO HORSE!"
by beester on May 27, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't gonna call the Colts a bunch of donkeys. That's rude.
DannoE
Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Go Titans!
by DannoE on May 27, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The vince young comparison to Peyton Manning was the metafor
for comparing a donkey to a stallion
"GO HORSE!"
by beester on May 28, 2008 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummmm...
• “A top 5 defense”... well his first year it was a ‘last in the league’ defense and he got us 1 game away from the playoffs despite Kerry Collins losing the first 4 games.
• “a great line”... damned right it is
• “a top five running game.”... really? REALLY? Somebody in here let me know when LenDale became a top-flight running back. I know we racked up yards in some games but if you think our rushing attack was top 5 last year (not counting VY’s scrambles) then you’re kidding yourself.
We’re good, but we haven’t been that good. VY has been a HUGE part of why we’ve won even if the stats don’t show it.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last year hey had all of those things
and all he did was hurt your talanted team.
"GO HORSE!"
by beester on May 29, 2008 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Almost true
Except for the part that Peyton Manning set rookie records for yards, completions and touchdowns and he did all of this with a very bad team. Also, in his second year he threw for 4.135 yards and 26 td’s. In those 16 games Manning almost has as many yards and td’s as Vince Young has had in 32 games so please don’t even try to compare Manning with Vince Young.
by MasterRWayne on May 27, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vince Young is "more committed than ever"?
What evidence do you have of this? All I’ve seen is pictures of him getting drunk with his buddies this off-season. Please point me to something saying how he’s coming along with the new offense.
Supposedly the reason for Young’s bad season was Norm Chow, correct? And there is a new offensive coordinator this year, correct? Why in the world is he not spending every day working with him, learning this new offense. He obviously has more talent than many NFL players, and still believes that talent alone will win NFL games. This is a lesson he has not learned yet, and I don’t see anything he’s done this offseason to tell us otherwise.
I hate to use Tony Romo as an example for commitment, but he paid $9K to a guy because he backed out of a celebrity golf outing to attend voluntary OTAs with the Cowboys. You can of course say he never should have agreed to play in the Pro-Am, but Romo will not be learning a new offense this year, and had a much better season than Young did last season. He knows he has lots of work to do, and is doing everything he can to become better.
by mgrex03 on May 27, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Why in the world is he not spending every day working with him,..."
VY scheduled his classes at UT on Monday and Tuesday so that he could fly into Nashville and work one-on-one with ‘Dinger for the rest of the week. He’s shown commitment to the team. Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t make it any less true.
Vince is doing fine this off season and he’s finally learning from a NFL offensive coordinator, not a college guy. I get the feeling you’ll see a lot of doubter quieted over the next few years.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lucky
It’s a good thing Vince Young is a talented athlete because he would be a bum if he was a normal person. Seriously, hard work? Pressure? You don’t have a family to support. You are paid millions. If you don’t do well, you get cut and still have your 18 million dollar guaranteed contract. VY doesn’t know pressure. The media is in love with him. Where is the pressure coming from? I haven’t heard anyone in the media besides Merrill Hoge bash VY. I’m happy I called him as a bust when he was drafted. I love being right. I also called Reggie Bush, but that was out of pure hatred of him.
coltshomer.blogspot.com=my blog, Pro-Colts Stuff. Check it out.
by Colts Homer on May 27, 2008 1:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have a family that I support. Not sure what your point there is.
I’m also not sure how Romo’s attendance rate is relevant, but if it makes you fell any better, I personally paid a charity an extra $100 when I had to back out of a recent triathlon. I mean, I’m no Romo, but that seems about as relevant.
At any rate, Vince has been at the Titans OTAs.
DannoE
Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Go Titans!
by DannoE on May 27, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I'm Saying Is
The pressure of Vince Young’s job compared to a normal person is miniscule, since he still has 18 million no matter what he does and no one depends on him.
coltshomer.blogspot.com=my blog, Pro-Colts Stuff. Check it out.
by Colts Homer on May 27, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BBS
Hi, BBS
This is the fan formerly on Stampede Blue as Titansfan10 anyway, just wanted to say you are a great guy, and I can’t wait to bring this article back up at the end of this upcoming season.
Have a good on colts fans!
Someone once said "Vince Young bleeds two toned blue!" But I disagree, because The Great One Doesnt Bleed!!
by Vincanity on May 27, 2008 1:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If Vince Young plays well
I encourage you to do so. I’ll even front page it, with a picture of me with a little “dunce” cap on.
Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
by BigBlueShoe on May 27, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A sample of VY's offseason workout plan
Vince Young’s White Tee Party @ the ROC Wednesdays – 5.14.08
Vince Young’s Invite Only Pool Party at the Westside Tennis Club – 5.15.08
Vince Young’s Birthday Weekend KickOff Party & Premiere of the iBar – 5.16.08
Vince, Shawn Marion & Jevon Kearse host Baby Blue Carpet Affair @ Club Level – 5.17.08
Vince Young Bday BBQ Cookout & Daytime party at the Red Door – 5.18.08
Lil Wayne, Lloyd, Mannie Fresh, Lil Keke at Vince Young Bday Bash at BAR RIO – 5.18.08
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 27, 2008 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
can't seem to make it work... out....
Ok, I hear you. Whining about a NFL quarterback’s income is pointless, and very often a sign of jealousy, and sure Vince Young is under a lot of pressure, but I think the point is that the pressure on Vince Young is amplified by his incredible poor judgment both on and off the field. (Especially on it.) It’s the same frustration my son had when learning to tie his shoes. He simply couldn’t figure it out… Come to think of it maybe it will take him 5 years. And you bet your life I’m thankful to face him 2 times a season.
by borninblue on May 27, 2008 6:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oh yeah
And just like my son in the end Billy Volek was there to show him how to lace em up’
by borninblue on May 27, 2008 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Am Not Whining About His Income
I am saying that there are much worse situations that someone can be in and that the pressure is not at the height it can be at. If anything, saying this will increase pressure.
Salaries are paid by the company’s income and supply and demand. Whining about salaries is pointless, and most salaries are justified.
coltshomer.blogspot.com=my blog, Pro-Colts Stuff. Check it out.
by Colts Homer on May 27, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WOW
No better way to bring out the trolls than bash VY.
I also blog at Speed Blue Nation
by Bullard47 on May 27, 2008 8:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
no better way to show you're a troll than crap on a guy who has played about 10 bad
games in his entire lifetime.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
13 NFL games with a QB rating under 65
8 with a QB rating under 50
7 NFL games with a QB rating over 90
No one is saying he wasn’t a great college player (I even rooted for him because I hated the way ESPN was all over USC’s junk).
But since he made it to the NFL he’s had more awful games than great ones and more bad games the mediocre performances.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
QB ratings will never tell the whole story
It’s a borderline useless tool as any statistician will tell you, and that’s even more so the case when the QB scrambles regularly… sometimes 60 yards for the OT win.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Falcons fans said the same about Vick. Look at where they got them.
by MasterRWayne on May 28, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't realize felony convictions were part of the formula.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are better tools
but QB rating is the most universally used, available and understood. I think it shows pretty clearly that he’s not been a good passer by any means.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's not consistent yet, but lets see what happens the next 2 years before we close the book
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is why
the Titans fans hate us.
by coltsfanawalt on May 27, 2008 9:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yes. yes it is
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
They hate us because we OWN them and the division.
by MasterRWayne on May 28, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, not really. 'coltsfanawait' was much closer to the truth, chief.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True Dat
coltshomer.blogspot.com=my blog, Pro-Colts Stuff. Check it out.
by Colts Homer on May 28, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, Peter King said a negative comment about Young? He’s been sucking him since he got drafted.
by MrNFL on May 27, 2008 9:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I am glad...
I am glad you Titans have Vince Young. It ensures a good 4-5 years of wasted seasons.
Also, if the Titans thought so highly of Young then why haven’t they brought in any receivers via the draft or free agency? Instead they have focused on their line and running game because Fisher knows they have to win in spite of Vince Young not because of him. Just remember Fisher wanted to draft Leinart it was only when the dumb ass owner stepped in that the Titans went with Young.
But the Titans loss is our gain!
by MasterRWayne on May 28, 2008 12:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Are we still talking about this?
Man, when’s the OJ Simpson/Marvin Harrison “Find the REAL Shooters!” Cuise? That’s what I really want to know.
DannoE
Go read FRIDAY MAD SCIENCE at www.paperbackreader.com
Go Titans!
by DannoE on May 28, 2008 10:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We'll start the cause
When Marvin is actually charged with committing a crime.
Bullets Forever: Where fancy numbers and YouTube come together.
by JakeTheSnake on May 28, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marvin wasn’t involved with any shooting. Let’s wait and see if there is anything to draw him to the shooting.
coltshomer.blogspot.com=my blog, Pro-Colts Stuff. Check it out.
by Colts Homer on May 28, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
and Pacman doesn’t like to hang out at strip clubs.
by gramsey712 on May 28, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pacman
has been spotted at strip clubs and charged with crimes. Marvin was not spotted at the sight of the shooting and hasn’t been charged with anything. This is what happens when you listen to ESPN. You think VY is good and Marvin is a thug. It’s a shame.
coltshomer.blogspot.com=my blog, Pro-Colts Stuff. Check it out.
by Colts Homer on May 28, 2008 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So I think
Shooter is a thug? Now you’re psychic.
by gramsey712 on May 28, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
All the Colt’s fans are passing judgement after year 2?
Did the same apply for:
Troy Aikman http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AikmTr00.htm
Steve Young http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounSt00.htm
Fran Tarkenton http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TarkFr00.htm
Brett Favre http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FavrBr00.htm
Roger Staubach http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StauRo00.htm
Bart Starr http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StarBa00.htm
Phil Simms http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SimmPh00.htm
Joe Namath http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NamaJo00.htm
Warren Moon http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoonWa00.htm
Throw a dart at a list of every prolific quarterback in NFL history and you’ll find that about half took two-three years to develop. Give this kid a break.
by SuperHorn on May 28, 2008 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
True
Development usually takes 2-4 years for a QB. However, you can always see signs of improvement, accuracy and strength. While Vince Young has all the physical tools to be an NFL QB he has none of the mental tools nor the accuracy to be anything more than a backup in this league at this point. Throwing 9 TD’s last year is laughably low. Manning has thrown almost as many (6) in some single games!
by MasterRWayne on May 28, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2-4 years: So shut up, sit back and see how he does with an NFL caliber coordinator
Chow’s scheme sucked in the NFL before Vince got here, but now we have a guy who will work wonders with him. VY will never do what Manning does in the stats sheet, but Manning can’t do what VY does when he’s on…
By the way, Terry Bradshaw is not impressed by your judgments of a QB’s mental tools.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was He Impressed By
His Hall of Fame running back, receiver, defense, and offensive line? Stick any QB and the Steelers would have won a number of Super Bowls.
What does VY do when he is on? Win playoff games (no). Doesn’t throw INTs (no). Just accept you guys drafted a bust and look towards free agency. Matt Stafford looks like a good pick next year.
coltshomer.blogspot.com=my blog, Pro-Colts Stuff. Check it out.
by Colts Homer on May 28, 2008 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would the Colts
have won the Super Bowl without Bob Sanders and Reggie Wayne and Shooter Harrison and their Oline?
by gramsey712 on May 28, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, it's precious to see Manning defenders call somebody a whiner
because Peyton never whined and hemmed and hawed at all, I swear.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 11:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
link it
or it didn’t happen
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
workking so I can't spend all day collecting links but here's a few highlights:
• After you guys collapsed against the Steelers in the AFC championship game
• After any penalty against Indy ever
• After almost any sack
• Getting all huffy after being criticized by a kicker
Hell, even Bret Favre and Tom Brady whine on occasion. It’s a tough position and there’s a lot of retards out there criticizing you. I’m not blaming Peyton, just pointing out that VY’s not the first QB to reflect on things in a tough and truthful manner.
Using people like Peter King to back up your points just proves how stupid the reasoning is.
If any of you mouthbreathing douchecanoes had bothered to read the full interview, you’d realize that the retirement mention is 1 measly sentence, and the rest of the article is about how dedicated he is to the game, the team and the community.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
on the field is different
guys can get caught up in the moment and get frustrated. I can forgive on the field stuff much more easily. Something you’re saying in an offseason interview is different because you are far removed from the game and (hopefully if you know what you’re doing at all) have thought about things before you say them.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow I don't know how I read over that
mouthbreathing douchecanoes
That’s awesome, I’m using that one in the future.
Vanderjagt took shots at Peyton and Dungy and Manning fired back.
After the 2002 season, Vanderjagt put himself in the center of a media firestorm in an interview for the Canadian television network The Score, on their “Score Tonight” primetime show. After a 41-0 playoff loss to the New York Jets, he criticized Colts quarterback Peyton Manning for not showing more emotion, and implied that head coach Tony Dungy was too placid and not enough of a motivator. He apologized several days later for his remarks, but Manning later fired back in a sideline interview at the Pro Bowl, referring to him as “our idiot kicker who got liquored up and ran his mouth off.”
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is your link
http://prayformojo.blogspot.com/2007/11/peyton-manning-chalks-bad-game-up-to.html
And please keep bashing Vince. What you guys don’t realize is that this is exactly what happened in the middle of his sophomore year of college. Just keep talking…
by ctex80 on May 28, 2008 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes linking "This is the sports humor site that gets results."
is reputable. He said about one sentance of what he’s quoted as saying there,
“we had some protection problems that put us in some bad situations,”
That’s a quote that gets him bashed, unjustly. He said we, that includes himself since he was making the protection calls.
Is a guy that says “we lost because we played badly” attacking his teammates?
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks funny though
I’ll check it out while you guys look for real quotes of him bashing his teammates.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hilarious
Well, I really dislike Peyton Manning, even though I have no real concrete reason for hating him.Perhaps the Colts’ best bet is to dump Manning and bring in a less talented, less expensive quarterback.
The Colts will most likely lose Edgerrin James and Reggie Wayne to free agency — a direct by-product of Manning’s cap-busting contract.
the trick, though, is to set a positive example without seeming like a condescending ass, which Manning is apparently unable to do.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hilarious
“Manning graciously threw his offensive line and coaching staff under the bus after the Pittsburgh loss when he said ‘I’m trying to be a good teammate here. Let’s just say we had some problems in protection.’’ “
by SuperHorn on May 28, 2008 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"We"
He was making the line calls. He phrased it to include himself. Maybe that’s how he was trying to be a good teammate, making sure he was included in his assessment of the problem.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even Better...
http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/2003/0202/1503003.html
On Vanderjagt: “The sad thing is, he’s a good kicker. He’s a good kicker. But he’s an idiot.”
Classy.
by SuperHorn on May 28, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's the truth isn't it?
Regardless, I’ll admit the idiot kicker comment was pretty low. But yelling at your offensive line? Great QBs never do that. (It’s at the end of the video)
Bullets Forever: Where fancy numbers and YouTube come together.
by JakeTheSnake on May 28, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
An argument with his center
who he’d been with since 2000 about whether they should be running or passing the ball. They went on to score 31 points in the 15 minutes after that so I guess they got it worked out.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, How bout this
“Peyton has never lacked for directness with his teammates. He famously called his kicker, Mike Vanderjagt, "an idiot" after Vanderjagt criticized his demeanor on the field, and he took a not-so-subtle jab at his offensive line after the playoff loss to the Steelers last season, citing "problems in protection" as the reason for the Colts’ offensive breakdown.”
Its from the New York FUCKING Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/20/sports/playmagazine/20manning.html
I love that you criticize the source when you know damn well that it happened. You should only criticize the source when the information itself is questionable. Every Colts fan knows that Peyton said these things, because every one of your non-Colts friends gave you shit about it.
Would you like more sources, Shake? Is there anything else that Google and I can do for you?
by ctex80 on May 28, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you linked a humor website the first time
They were making up quotes to make (funny) jokes about Peyton. Any link to a website that’s reporting fact instead of making jokes would have been a fine source. Both the quotes you mentioned have already been talked about in this comment section.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we all know what he said
Was quickly linking a reference to the instance after your childish “link it” reply. But whatever. I’ll try to link scientific journals next time. Sorry about that. Oh, and you misspelled “sentence”. Do you believe me, or should I link to a dictionary?
by ctex80 on May 28, 2008 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defensive much?
I honestly don’t think asking for a link to a reputable source is asking too much, but perhaps y’all do things differently in Titanland.
by ctnyc on May 28, 2008 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The link it was to get a specific quote
specified. I didn’t feel like going through every quote that Peyton’s said that could be stretched into whining or criticizing teammates.
YOU LINKED A SITE THAT WAS MAKING UP QUOTES FOR COMIC EFFECT.
That’s either a dumb mistake or a dishonest attempt to discredit Peyton Manning.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read your comment again, Shake.
“The link it was to get a specific quote specified.”
That is not even English. I guess we do, in fact, do things differently in Titanland. I’ll cop to dumb mistake, if it must be one or the other. I would never want to be characterized as attempting to discredit Peyton Manning.
So, for the record, dumb mistake by me. Shake, you are truly a gentleman and a scholar. Good luck in all your future endeavors.
by ctex80 on May 29, 2008 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steve Young
Had a similar sophomore season and turned out just fine. I’d argue that they are very similar quarterbacks as well.
As far as accuracy is concerned, I’d agree that he isn’t the most accurate quarterback. He’ll never pick apart a defense in the same way that Peyton can with his arm. But, it’d be ignorant not to consider that Norm Chow could have been the problem. Anyone who watched Vince in college knows that he wasn’t playing his game last year. Norm was continually trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Give Mike Heimerdinger a chance to work with VY before you pass judgement.
I’d also point out, that no where in this thread has anyone pointed out that Vince has had zero help at receiver. In fact, one poster said he was given an “amazing team”. The receivers NEVER got serparation, and again, I’m convinced some of this had to do with Chow’s coaching. Not one of the Titans receivers from last year would have started for the Colts.
by SuperHorn on May 28, 2008 12:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LMAO!
Vince Young is not even in the same freaking universe as Steve Young! One guy was very accurate, smart and only ran when we had no other option. The other guy thinks the NFL is a game of back yard football. But you know go ahead and defend your loser QB because, as I said previously, the fact that he is your QB helps the Colts out.
As for receivers its true that Vince Young does not have a great receiving core, but he does have a great O-line which is far more important for a QB. Yet despite solid protection he is still not very accurate.
Oh and I love how you guys blame everything on Chow! Its like the Titans are the new Falcons (circa 2001) when their blamed all of Vicks sucky performances on their "offensive system." If Vince Young can’t run a pro-offense, which he can’t, then he is nothing more than a backup.
by MasterRWayne on May 28, 2008 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chow didn't have a Pro offense. If he's scheme was so good why didn't he get even a phone call
from all of the NFL teams who need a guru. They saw they tape. They knew what Fisher knew when he fired a guy he liked a lot personally: Chow wasn’t cut out for the NFL.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then He Had A Simple Offense
So why couldn’t VY run it?
by TouchdownMonkey on May 28, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“If Vince Young can’t run a pro-offense, which he can’t, then he is nothing more than a backup.”
I feel so enlightened. It’s like a light just went off. But, just so I can get all the information from an offensive guru like yourself, explain to me why a spread offense won’t work in the NFL? And save me the “speed of the game” BS, because VY can outrun the majority of defensive players in the NFL.
by SuperHorn on May 28, 2008 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
He really outran Bob Sanders in that first game last year… what a joke!
As for the speed of the game its more than just how fast you can run. Its about reading defenses (which Vince Young cant do) and its about throwing accurately (again something he cant do).
by MasterRWayne on May 28, 2008 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Majority of defensive players"
I’d consider Bob Sanders elite.
You still didn’t answer my question as to why the spread offense won’t work.
by SuperHorn on May 29, 2008 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Oh and I love how you guys blame everything on Chow!”
You’re right. That’s foolish. Because we all know that the NFL is a players league, coaching has nothing to do with it. You can just go out, buy the most talented athletes, and plug them into any system. I mean, look at the Washington Redskins! It’s worked great for them.
by SuperHorn on May 28, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still preferred the original
Vince Young is not even in the same freaking universe as Vince Young!
Y’know, that would really explain a lot about Vince if you really think about it. :D
But I think SuperHorn has a point here. Let’s compare their stats in the second year:
Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Vince Young 62.3 2546 9 2.4 17 4.5 73 6.7 4.9 10.7 169.7 71.1 Steve Young 53.7 2282 8 2.2 13 3.6 46 6.3 4.9 11.7 163.0 65.5
While Vince did rush more than Steve did (93 carries to 74), I’d argue that VY was still about as efficient of a passer. He may have thrown a few more INTs but his overall completion percentage is a lot better than the future HOFer at the same point in their respective careers.
Bullets Forever: Where fancy numbers and YouTube come together.
by JakeTheSnake on May 28, 2008 12:58 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The 1986 league leader in completion %
completed only 63% of his passes. Last year it was 69%.
There were only 3 QBs with passer ratings in the 90s in 86, last year there were 3 with QB ratings over 100 and 8 over 90.
The passing game has gotten better (rule changes and the west coast offense).
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a valid point
And I also forgot to throw in the whole “He was playing for the Tampa Bay Creamsicles Buccaneers” part, but I don’t think the change from then until now is dramatic enough to invalidate the comparison.
I’m not trying to be a Vince apologist here - he still has a long way to go before he can be considered a legit franchise QB - but let’s not go deep off of the other end either.
Bullets Forever: Where fancy numbers and YouTube come together.
by JakeTheSnake on May 28, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
finally, a voice of moderation in this malaise of commentors
/guilty of getting pissy as well.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
They should have cut Steve Young.
There is no way he could ever be a franchise quarterback.
by gramsey712 on May 28, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They did
He landed with Bill Walsh who turned bad-mediocre QBs in the passing offenses of the day into franchise QBs by introducing an passing game that was timing based and spread the field horizontally.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So
a change of scenery worked for Steve Young, but we can’t give VY a chance after a change?
by gramsey712 on May 28, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt the Titans hired Bill Walsh
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, the Titans did not hire Bill Walsh
So Vince Young is never going to be an awesome quarterback cause ya’ll say so. There is no way to win an argument that would end up in a fist fight in a bar. (As long as Shooter Harrison or Pacman are not there to settle it!) (Come on—just a joke.)
At least our games this fall will be entertaining—and here’s to the Colts crashing and burning. Good luck.
Go Titans.
by gramsey712 on May 28, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steve Young also got to learn
From the greatest Quarterback of all time, Joe Montana.
I think Kerry Collins falls just short of that title.
by mgrex03 on May 28, 2008 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steve Young also didn't have an inch of VY's physical skill, but he did have Jerry Rice, John Taylor, etc.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“He landed with Bill Walsh who turned bad-mediocre QBs in the passing offenses of the day into franchise QBs”
Are you out of you f’ing mind? I guess you are referring to Steve Deberg? Because Joe Montana is arguably the greatest quarterback in history, and Steve Young isn’t half bad either. Let me guess…you read “The Blind Side” so now you’re a Bill Walsh expert, too, right?
by SuperHorn on May 28, 2008 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Montana and Young were great QBs
Because they got into a system (that’s a huge part of the modern game) that minimized their flaws and brought out their strengths. Montana was a 3rd round pick and Young was picked up off the scrap heap. They weren’t well suited for the passing offenses that were being played elsewhere. I may have phrased the statement poorly, the QBs Walsh’s offense wouldn’t have been as good and weren’t as valued by the rest of the league because their systems didn’t fit Montana/Young/etc’s skills.
Every QB Walsh worked with had his numbers jump. Young was awful in Tampa, Montana wasn’t the same in KC.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So couldn't the same be true
for Vince Young? Let’s see what ‘dinger can do for him.
by coltsfanawalt on May 28, 2008 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt "'dinger" is Bill Walsh but it's possible
But there’s still months to go before the opener, so wait and see don’t fill my football fix.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pierre Garcon
is going to be Jerry Rice. He dominated lower divisions in college because he’s good enough to dominate high ones. He was the best player on the field in college and will continue that for the rest of his career. You can call it ridiculous, but we’ll just wait and see.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe someone should write that
Pierre Garcon is a worthless piece of crap and a waste of roster space. We should cut him immediately. His college success will not translate into the pros; it is a faster game. Colts management is delusional to hold onto him when they can fill their roster with proven commodities like Roosevelt Colvin. Furthermore, anyone here who is holding onto any hope that he can blossom needs to quit drinking the koolaid and admit that they are pathetic for even thinking about it.
I think that is the real point here.
by coltsfanawalt on May 28, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Judging by how far you folks have had to backtrack since BSS was called out on this horsesh*t post
Can we agree to give it a rest and see if VY can fulfill his potential? Nobody has come over here with hyperbole about how great VY is, so why all of the ignorant, mean-spirited and baseless comments about him from the Colts fan’s side?
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 1:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't see anyone backtracking
Read the very first paragraph of the story again. Find something factually incorrect. BBS used statistics (which are not very good), and provided 5 articles of things Young has done. He also was, in fact, on the sideline when the Titans won in Week 17, clinching a playoff berth.
He’s also exactly right in that every indication seems as though he doesn’t want to put in the work to get better. While it is certainly up for argument, let’s say for argument’s sake he has the most talent in the NFL. You will get many different people’s opinion on this, but it is certainly possible that player is Vince Young, and nobody here has said anything to the contrary about his physical abilities. His problem, and I said this earlier, is that he thinks he can win football games in the NFL purely on athletic ability.
‘Norm Chow kept trying to run an offense not suited for Young’ has been the most common excuse, and I bet there is some truth to that. However, Chow does run an NFL offense, which works very well with a passing quarterback, which he did not have in 3 seasons in Tennessee. I ask you, what makes you think Heimerdinger’s offense will be suited for Young? Is he going to let Young “dance?” What, from his previous stint as OC for the Titans, makes you think Young will succeed? He took over an offense that was already in the Top 10 in the NFL, and kept it there, which is a good sign. However, from 2001-2003, they were ranked 4th, 7th, and 1st in passing offense, which is the reason they were in the Top 10 in offense. McNair was worlds better at throwing the football than Young is.
I find it rather humorous that Titan fans talk about how Chow ran a “college” offense. The offense Young ran at UT was a “college” offense, and obviously he was fantastic at it. He was the best athlete on the field for every game he played in, and if he didn’t find his first, or maybe second option open, he’d take off for a 10 yard gain. That works great in college, but not in the NFL. Defenses adjust so much more quickly.
Also, you mentioned nobody came here with hyperbole about how great Young is? Nearly every quarterback mentioned in the “he was bad his first 2 years too” is in, or will be in the Hall of Fame. I could list you hundreds of quarterbacks who were bad their first two years, and they stayed bad. Again, Young’s talent alone will not make him a 4 year washout in the NFL. However, if he cannot come to grips on the mental demand of the position of quarterback in the NFL, he will not be a success, no matter if he is the most physically gifted player in the NFL.
by mgrex03 on May 28, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there are too many stupid and incorrect statements in your comment to address in full, but here's a taste of it:
• Those 5 articles are misleading at best. Neither of the things tagged ‘stupid’ or ‘dumb’ are actually stupid or dumb unless you’re a nitpicking idiot who belongs on the back water or the Huffingtonpost. VY was on the sidelines against Indy’s scrubs because he’d had a severe quad injury that was hush hush the last half of the year which prevented him from playing his game. He’s played really well against Indy every other time (a 95 in you precious passer rating the first game of the year), so why do you guys always go back to a point when he was obviously hurt?
• The stats are not pretty until you get to the win column, then they don’t look so bad for a then 24 year-old QB who was thrown to the wolves on a team that was in a malaise before his arrival. After just 2 years, we’ll take it, but he MUST improve
• Your assertion that he ‘doesn’t want to put in the work’ shows how ignorant and biased you are on this! He’s been working with our new OC regularly off season, even scheduling his classes so that he could! What do you want? A public itinerary and diet schedule submitted for your fcking approval? Just because you don’t read the practice notes in the Tennesseean or make an effort to learn something that’s not filtered through a national writer who doesn’t have time to watch dick doesn’t make anyone lazy but yourself when you try to be an expert on it.
• Chow’s offense was not a Pro offense. It had some elements, but until it succeeds in the pro game, it ain’t a pro offense. Chow ran a cobbled together mixture of some Pro sets, but mostly college plays from his BYU days. He’d never built a scheme against a pro defense, he sucked at play calling and our receivers NEVER IMPROVED A SPEC NO MATTER WHO WAS THROWING THE BALL. Maybe you are so spoiled you don’t realize that not every QB has Harrison, Wayne, a good slot guy and Clark out there on every play.
These are just a few of the reasons you’re arguments are self-serving and totally detached from any reasonable context. I’m not saying he’s amazing yet, but you fckers just trashing him are pathetically off base. So you’d be wise to SHUT UP, SIT BACK AND WATCH WHAT HAPPENS!
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you say QB rating isn't a good measure of performance
but you cite wins?
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup. QB leads a team. If team wins, then you can settle everything else out later
if VY was a 6 year vet it would be different. But when said QB isn’t even old enough to rent a car at most places then he gets a little leeway.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think I trashed him
Your first two bullets are fine. BBS goes over the top sometimes on his assessments, and he’ll be the first to tell you that. While some of those wins were because of Young, some others were in spite of him, as the Titans defense was fantastic, or Bironas made lots of field goals, etc.
I’m going to be “lazy” again, but I’m hoping you know the answer to this. Did Young attend all voluntary OTAs last season, and work with Chow regularly in the off season? I’m going to assume that he did, being a young player, and one who is dedicated to winning, right? What about Heimerdinger’s past tells you and me and the rest of us that the “real” Vince Young will emerge this year, or next year, or any time in the future? If he was fully committed, you wouldn’t see him in the tabloids.
Chow was in the NFL for 3 seasons, where he had McNair for one season, and Young for 2. Maybe the words I should have used were that Chow has an offense that depends heavily on the pass, which is becoming more and more the norm in the NFL. Obviously not all teams are the same. I agree that Chow was not a good fit with the personnel in Tennessee. However, to say that it has to succeed in the NFL to be an NFL offense is not correct. Carson Palmer did quite well in it, as did Leinart. And Chow was not the Receivers coach, I don’t believe. Maybe they should have fired that guy as well.
by mgrex03 on May 28, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The reason we have so much more faith in 'Dinger
is that above all, he made players better. Derrick Mason, Drew Bennett, Justin McCariens, Frank Wychek and E. Kinney were all guys who came from obscurity to perform VERY well for our team and get us to a Super Bowl, another AFC Championship and multiple playoff runs. He also was notorious for holding players accountable and demanding improvement.
During Norm Chow’s tenure we acquired god knows how many WRs who could run, catch and play, but not a single one of them improved while they were here (the one exception may be Justin Gage, but that’s debatable). That’s almost always a sign of poor coaching and that was never a problem with ‘Dinger.
Vince has always attended OTAs, and even flew the WRs to Houston to work with him in the offseason while the rest of the team was on vacation. He decided to go back to school and take a few classes towards his degree this year, but the staff told him to go for it because he scheduled classes on Mondays and Tuesdays so that he could fly back to Nashville and work with the coaches.
So that’s where I’m coming from. The media likes to create their story lines because they expect us to be as lazy as they are. So often, however, the truth is much different than they understand.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"BBS goes over the top sometimes on his assessments, and he’ll be the first to tell you that."
I knew there was a reason I never read this blog. Why go over the top when you know it’s not reflecting reality? I guess some people dig it but that’s just really not my style.
I probably wouldn’t have gotten so irate if I knew people were just trying be provocative and snarky.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's an opinion and a prediction
It can go beyond what’s provable now. We’ll see if he’s right and if he isn’t then you can go around calling him/us mouthbreathing douchecanoes.
my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com
by shake n bake on May 28, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
predictions are cool, but what's in that post above is flat-out wishing failure upon someone
and mean-spirited accusations. That’s why some people popped over to challenge them.
Also, I’ve called other people mouthbreathers, and I’ve called other people douchecanoes, but I’ll reserve the combo just for the Stampede Blue community!
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Explain to me why...
One has to run a “pro-style” offense to be successful in the NFL? Why won’t the spread work?
You are right about Chow. He ran a “pro-style” offense…and maybe a former USC quarterback would have thrived with our mediocre receivers in that system. I doubt it, but we’ll never know.
As you mentioned above, Vince may be the the most physically talented player on a field at a given time. What won Vince ROY was his ability to use those talents in the NFL. I’d imagine that the offense was “dumbed down” since he was halfway through his rookie year, and everything ran smoother. Fast forward to 2007, Vince spends an entire summer with Chow who continues to bang away trying to fit that square peg in the round hole. He takes away Vince’s legs and forces him to stay in the pocket longer, immediately taking away the aforementioned physical traits that make him so dangerous.
All reports indicate that Heimerdinger is adapting and listening to Vince, not the other way around. Another poster mentioned earlier, we dealt with this same problem at Texas. UT always ran a pro style offense with Chrissy Simms. It wasn’t until an offense was designed around Vince that we saw one of the most proflic offenses in school/NCAA history. I think ‘Dinger has that same ability. If the coaches can adapt to Vince, he has the ability to be a HOF quarterback.
by SuperHorn on May 28, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Spread Offense has worked
Namely, with the 2007 Patriots. It was rather obvious that teams can run the Spread offense. You don’t need a QB who can scramble to run it. But you do need a guy who can throw the ball. This isn’t the Urban Meyer Gimmick Offense that he calls the spread.
There has not been an offense, or very few offenses, where the quarterback will be counted on to run as much as he passes. It’s just never happened before, and the closest to it, with Vick, only had success in one season before teams figured it out. I think it is very dangerous to base your offense on not checking down to receivers and just taking off with the ball. Am I saying it won’t work? No. However, it’s never been sustainably successful.
Also, while it’s a good thing for an OC to get input from the QB, ultimately the OC should be teaching the QB, especially a young one that has questionable stats.
by mgrex03 on May 28, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"However, it’s never been sustainably successful."
First, let me say that it’s nice to hear an intelligent argument around here.
I think what makes this different is the type of athlete we are dealing with. People make comparisons to Vick, but Vince is a completely different specimen. In particular, he was much more dangerous in college with his arm. And, save me the “system” BS, because he threw more than twice as many TDs his Junior year as Vick did. If anyone has watched a good amount of Titans/Longhorn games, they’d know that Vince can make the throws that everyone else in the NFL can if his feet are set.
One of the biggest knocks on Vince coming out of college was his footwork. In HS and College, he either a) Was in the shotgun and didn’t have to worry about his feet and/or b) was such a good athlete that when under center he could use his athletic ability to make it work, ie scramble and get enough time to set is feet and throw. The first thing Heimerdinger said when he worked with Vince is that his footwork was all wrong. Anyone who has played sports knows that a compound movement such as throwing all starts with your legs. If you’re base isn’t solid, the ball is inaccurate, or sails which is what we saw all last year.
“We’re trying to fix his feet,’’ Heimerdinger said. “Just getting his feet underneath him when he throws — he just always seems to be off-balance and throws just with his arms and not with his feet. … If we can get that fixed, it will give him a chance to throw an accurate ball more often.’‘
All I’d say is let’s wait and see before we start throwing around rash statements like the Titans would be better off cutting Vince. I think we’d all agree that if Vince could get his production up to the level it was in college throwing the ball, the offense would be infinitely better. I happen to think if he can get that working, we’d be looking at a consistent top five offense.
by SuperHorn on May 29, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's good they are working on his footwork
However, he’s been playing the game for so long a certain way, it will be difficult for him to break the habit of not setting his feet. It is instinctual after a while, and will take lots of work to break it. I’m not sure just one off-season will be enough. Time will tell though
Again, he was fantastic in college, where raw talent can win you games 75% of the time, especially with the talent around him at UT. He was a much better passer, in college, than Vick was. In the NFL, however, Young hasn’t been much better, if at all, than Vick was. Young’s completion % is better, but he has many more INTs than Vick did. Vick was never an NFL passer, and Young isn’t yet either. Maybe with the right footwork he can be. I think it will be hard for him to break the habit of doing what he’s done for 15 years in football.
by mgrex03 on May 29, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree.
It will be a tough habit to break, but, also, I’m not completely convinced that it has to be broken. It’s unclear to me why an NFL team can’t run a spread, zone-read offense when you have Vince and a 4.24 Chris Johnson in the backfield. And, actually, I tend to think this is the best way to use Vince’s talents whether he has footwork problems or not.
by SuperHorn on May 29, 2008 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because I'm curious
What is your definition of a spread offense? I think we are talking about two different things, but wanted to clarify.
by mgrex03 on May 29, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If...
If he can’t throw then he sucks. Running makes the highlight reels, but in the end it just lands your QB on IR.
by MasterRWayne on May 28, 2008 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easy there...
Don’t bust a brain cell.
by TouchdownMonkey on May 28, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Titans fans,
you are right. Everyone needs to wait and see what happens with the new coordinator. I believe that Peyton has been greatly benefited from the presence of Tom Moore as OC. I am glad he has had that tool. I think that if Vince Young is struggling in two years, the fans will be frustrated and arguing for change. Some won’t, but some will.
I think the Norm Chow argument has credence. It does not guaruntee that Vince will succeed more now, but it is a very valid consideration.
I think that the comparison to the first two seasons of other great QB’s is very legitimate. I think the same can be said for Rex Grossman in Chicago, who flashes tremendous promise but has some issues to work through. In a year or so, both of these QB’s will either hae improved or will have lost the goodwill of their franchises. I think Grossman is on thinner ice in Chicago. However, you hate to throw superstar potential down the drain too soon. Exhaust all other options first. The worst feeling in the world might be watching your castaway go elsewhere and be a superstar. I think VY has that potential there, and I wouldn’t throw him under the bus yet if I was a Titans fan, either.
Also, even if as a fan I had some doubts about Young, I would not appreciate another team’s fans telling me how worthless my QB is, how stupid my franchise is for trying to make the right decision, or how pathetic my hopes are.
Good luck, Titans fans. I hope you lose to us, but make the playoffs. I enjoyed the strength of our division last year. It kept things interesting. I also hope that Dallas gets burned by Pacman, and you all look like geniuses for the trade.
by coltsfanawalt on May 28, 2008 3:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
thanks for the level-headed response. good luck as well!
The Colts are a class organization and I love that we get to compete against you guys in the best division in football every year!
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I don’t see how you enjoy it… I mean you usually lose to us a lot!
by MasterRWayne on May 28, 2008 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That trend is coming to an end.
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes...
Yes Vince Young could develop just as Rex Grossman could develop, but I fell very safe in wagering that neither of those guys will work out in the NFL. Now sometimes you have a guy that struggles a bit, gets cut and resurects himself later on just like Rich Gannon did. But even in his early days Gannon showed accuracy and skills and I do not see that with Vince Young. Combine that with the retirement talk, punching players and missing team meeting… etc and you have a picture of a emotionally immature person who is not ready for the big time.
But hey what is really great for us Colts fans is that you Titans fans have a MASSIVE hardon for Vince Young and its like the scenario when the ugly dude dates the hot chick and he gets all excited just to see the pretty girl skip town with all of this money.
That is what is going to happen to you Titans fans. Its what happened to Falcons fans and I am going to enjoy every minute of it.
by MasterRWayne on May 28, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Titans>Ric Ocasek
Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!
by August West on May 28, 2008 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brilliant
You’re giving psych evaluations now.
And, enough of the Michael Vick comparisons. That is dumb and ignorant. It indicates that you know nothing about football short of the last ten years because the two have nothing in common other than they are a) black and b) mobile.
by SuperHorn on May 29, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again.
How could you possibly evaluate those two statements after year two?
Reread stats from these QBs:
Troy Aikman http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AikmTr00.htm
Steve Young http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounSt00.htm
Fran Tarkenton http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TarkFr00.htm
Brett Favre http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FavrBr00.htm
Roger Staubach http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StauRo00.htm
Bart Starr http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StarBa00.htm
Phil Simms http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SimmPh00.htm
Joe Namath http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NamaJo00.htm
Warren Moon http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoonWa00.htm
by SuperHorn on May 29, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Logically inconsistent
To quote mgrex03 from above: “Nearly every quarterback mentioned in the ‘he was bad his first 2 years too’ is in, or will be in the Hall of Fame. I could list you hundreds of quarterbacks who were bad their first two years, and they stayed bad.”
Unless I’m misunderstanding you, you’re saying basically, “all these QBs had trouble in their first years, too.” The implication is that because they became great, so will Young. In other words: “I found some great QBs who had trouble their first couple years, that proves Young will rebound from this.” But this is not logically consistent. Just because it has happened before does not mean that it will happen in every case, or in this particular case.
If your argument is less absolute, it’s still rather pointless. If all you’re saying is, “Others have turned it around, Young MIGHT also,” I would answer, “So what?” I could just as easily type out a list of QBs that started bad and stayed bad and use it to say, “Look! These guys show that Young probably won’t improve.” Every case is different and not directly related to others. You say as much yourself when you rail against the Vick comparisons. So why do you trash a comparison to a QB who has a similar style (mobile, improvisational) to Young, but make your own comparisons to QBs who play with different styles (i.e. less mobile, more traditional pocket passer)? Doesn’t add up.
by ctnyc on May 29, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You misunderstand my point
All I am suggesting by showing these cases above is that the book isn’t closed on Young. Nothing more, nothing less. You are drawing your own inferences and putting words in my mouth.
Many, including yourself, are quick to judge Vince. Calling him a bust, or overhyped. I am saying that until we have all the evidence (ie. an entire career) to analyze, these conclusions don’t have any merit. These cases of successful quarterbacks are only meant to show that in some cases the first few years are a learning process and quarterbacks have gone on to productive careers.
by SuperHorn on May 29, 2008 12:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not to put too fine a point on it
But I covered this in the 3rd paragraph of my comment. If all you’re saying is, “look these guys did it, Young could too,” that’s fine. But in that case, to be consistent, you’d have to allow that the Vick comparison is just as legitimate. It’s not a sound argument to say that Vick comparisons are not legitimate because the two players are different, and then use comparisons to players who are even further in style from Young in order to support your point.
In other words, if it’s a valid argument that Young might turn it around because others have, then it’s equally valid to say he might not because others (notably Vick) didn’t.
by ctnyc on May 29, 2008 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose
I guess maybe a couple of arguments are getting intertwined here. Here is what I’m saying:
1. History has shown that the first two years of an NFL quarterbacks career are not necessarily good indicators as to how well they will do in the future.
2. Many people draw comparisons between Vince Young and Michael Vick…generally because the average fan sees a black athletic quarterback and immediately thinks the playing styles are similar. In the same vein, people often make the mistake of lumping Byron Leftwich into the mobile quarterback category. I think a better comparison would be to Kordell Stewart, Steve Young, or Randall Cunningham. However, I don’t think any comparison is completely accurate because Vince is a breed all of his own.
by SuperHorn on May 29, 2008 1:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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