Vince Young now says the retirement talk was wrong, but not really

by BigBlueShoe on May 30, 2008 11:01 AM EDT in Analysis Comment 110 comments

More fun from Vince Young. Last week he said his rookie year (which produced a Rookie of the Year award and a Pro Bowl nod) was so stressful for him that he nearly retired. Now, Vince is saying he never really planned to hang them up. OK, I guess that means that NFL.com writer Thomas George misquoted Vince when he wrote this:

At age 24 -- only one year into his NFL career -- [Vince Young] said he considered retirement.

"I really thought long and hard about it," Young said on Thursday after practice. "There was so much going on with my family. It was crazy being an NFL quarterback. It wasn't fun anymore. All of the fun was out of it. All of the excitement was gone. All I was doing was worrying about things.

"My teammates helped lift me out of it. I prayed really hard. And I began to focus on God's calling for me. Play football. Be a role model."

So yeah, looks like Thomas George pulled a John Tomase, right? I mean, that has to be a misquote, because it states pretty clearly that Vince Young considered retirement. Vince even said he thought "long and hard about it." Well, no. Vince wasn't misquoted. He just said something stupid, again:

In an interview with the Tennessean on Thursday, one week after Young told an NFL.com reporter that he thought about hanging it up after his rookie season, Young said that while the pressures of being a quarterback are pretty intense, he never really planned to quit.

"I was never going to quit football,'' Young said. "Football, that is my pride and joy, it is my dream. I am playing my dream. And I don't plan on giving that up any time soon.''
But at the same time, Young didn't say that he was misquoted in last week's story, when he said that he thought long and hard about retiring. Now he's saying that everything had been "blown out of proportion." It seems that the pressure and constant attention that came with being the Titans' star made for a tough adjustment.

OK Vince, you need to make up your mind. You lied in one of those interviews; either the one with NFL.com or the one Thursday with the Tennessean. You cannot one minute say you contemplated retirement and in, in two days later, say you never planned to do it. Either Thomas George misquoted Vince (which Vince says he didn't) or Vince is lying to the Tennessean about his retirement talk.

You can't have it both ways.

At this point it's moot. Who cares if Vince Young wants to retire or not. The point is this is yet another example of Vince Young's utter and complete stupidity. For people like me, it provides enjoyable entertainment. For Titans fans, I offer up the same warning I gave Jaguars fans regarding Byron Leftwich: Vince Young lacks the mental toughness to quarterback your team.

Oh, and he's a complete dumb ass to boot.

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I will say it again...

The Titans are like the Falcons circa 2001-2002. This is because…

1. They worship their QB despite his sub-par play
2. Both QB’s can’t throw accurately
3. Titans fans, just like Falcons fans did, blame all of their offensive woes on their offensive coordinator. Both Chow and Knapp tried to “limit” their respective QB’s by, and here’s the shocker, trying to teach them to throw the football with accuracy and precise timing.
4. Titans fans think their QB will “revolutionize the position” despite the fact that every successful QB in the NFL has had good accuracy and arm strength. Just look at Brady and Manning who are two of the best. They have great accuracy and arm strength, but can’t run that fast. In the end speed is just not that important for a QB.
5. Both Mike Vick and Vince Young are DUMB and have no idea how to lead their team with class and dignity. Now I am not saying that Vince Young is a “dog fighter” or a “pot head” but I will say that he lacks the cognitive skills to run a pro offense and doesn’t seem like he is really serious about treating his job as an actual career. He seems to treat it like a backyard game of football during Memorial Day in which his “skills” alone will make up the difference between victory and defeat. I hate to break it to Vince Young and his Titan “fan boys” but pretty much every player on the Colts defense is as fast or faster than he is so scrambling around is just going to get him hurt and leave the Colts with another win. That, of course, is why “VY” is ultimately a good thing for us Colts fans.

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 12:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's not Vince's fault you guys are too dumb

to understand the difference between ‘thinking about’ something and ‘planning to do’ something.

Our best pick-up this off-season has been 'Dinger. Go Titans!

by August West on May 30, 2008 1:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And they don't know the difference

between “worship” and “not ready to cut him after only two years.”

by gramsey712 on May 30, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And

why are you guys so wrapped around the axle about this anyway?

Is there nothing else to do in Indianapolis?

by gramsey712 on May 30, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My Take

I’ve never thought Vince Young would be a good pro along with other QBs who made their name with their feet and not with their arm. Vince Young has always been innaccurate, and he now shows the lack of judgment to go out partying and getting shitfaced. It’s fine to go to a bar and not cause trouble, but getting as drunk as he looked in that picture shirtless, that’s embarrassing. Vince Young has never been the QB everyone thought he was. People didn’t realize the talent surrounding him at Texas was probably the best outside of USC, the other school who has sent bust after bust after bust to the pros.

Leadership is the most overrated “attribute” in pro football. What makes leadership and clutch ability? Did Vince Young make the 60 yard field goal against the Colts in 2006? No. Did Peyton Manning miss the easy kick in the 2006 playoffs? No. So why is Peyton a choker and VY the king of clutch? Simple. The media loves VY, and they should. He’s a big name who was great in college and won a championship. Now that he is clearly not the player everyone thought he was going to be, they are trying to hang on to that. Peyton Manning had a crappy defense up until 2005, so he never could win a playoff game because of that. The media got on his back for no good reason, so the choker tag was applied even when the loss was out of his hands.

I consider myself a pretty damn good draft analyst mostly because of precedent. I consider QB my best position to analyze. I love it when I call busts like VInce Young. Now Jay Cutler needs to do well, as I said he was by far the best QB in the 2006 class. Lienart and Young have done their part of being busts, now Cutler needs to do his part.

coltshomer.blogspot.com=my blog, Pro-Colts Stuff. Check it out.

by Colts Homer on May 30, 2008 1:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

So you are mad at Vince

because the media likes him more than Peyton?

That makes sense.

And how is that Cutler thing working out for you?

by gramsey712 on May 30, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I still

don’t understand how the fuck you can call someone a bust after TWO SEASONS.

by gramsey712 on May 30, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

I think Cutler’s working out well. I expect he’ll have a productive season.

by TouchdownMonkey on May 30, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As I expect

Vince will have a productive season.

by gramsey712 on May 30, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cutler

297-467 63.6% 3497 20TD 14INT 88.1QB rating 7.5YPA 11.8YPC
Young
238-382 62.3% 2546 9TD 17INT 71.1QB rating 6.7YPA 10.7YPC

So Cutler wins in every aspect of passing the football

my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com

by shake n bake on May 30, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

By the way, who was Cutler's OC last year that helped him improve despite undiagnosed diabetes?

Just wondering.

by August West on May 30, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

BIll Walsh?

but seriously, he didn’t have a huge jump from his rookie season. Completion % up 4 points, TD:INT ratio was similar, Yards per attempt and per completion were about the same. His QB rating actually dropped by .4.

my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com

by shake n bake on May 30, 2008 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

splitting hairs

I’d say from the comments that he thought about retiring but he didn’t make the decision to retire then change his mind and play.

my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com

by shake n bake on May 30, 2008 1:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If you actually read the article instead of the drivel BBS passes for this 'analysis'

he talks about is commitment to winning Super Bowls, the coping mechanisms he’s created to help bond with his teammates and his drive to improve.

Nice to see that wasn’t mentioned at all. Tagging this post as analysis is like calling masturbation getting laid.

by August West on May 30, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK, seriously

Why such a hard-on for Vince Young?

Does it make ya’ll feel better to bash him? Do you have to be a Vince Young basher to like the Colts? If that’s the case, then I will leave it alone. Because it’s not looking like we are gonna change your mind.

by gramsey712 on May 30, 2008 1:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

We bash him because...

Because he sucks and we love the fact that the Titans are going to be bad-mediocre for at least 3-4 more years! It makes winning the AFC South that much easier.

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

So you bash

him because you think that him playing makes it easier for the Colts to win?

Once again, you make a whole lot of sense.

by gramsey712 on May 30, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh and...

We can call Vince Young a bust after two seasons because…

1. He has failed to improve
2. Failed to mature
3. Punched players
4. Left games before they were over (remember that first Colts game last year where Bob Sanders laid the smack down on him?)
5. Talks smack that he can’t back up (see Bob Sanders again. Bob said,

“That’s how people get hurt … We’re after you. You know what I’m saying? I told him, ‘If I was you, I’d be quiet.’ ... “I didn’t think that was smart on his part … He was running around talking and clapping and chanting. I’m like, ‘Look, we’re hitting you. Are you serious? You’re going to start acting like that?’”

6. Costly penalties (see throwing the football at Kelvin Hayden last year that cost his team)

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 2:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

1. The team and VY have taken steps improve this year, as opposed to last year when no weapons were available to him and the OC/play calling sucked… even still he had a higher completion .
2. That’s VERY debatable.
3. He hit Donnie Nikey on the helmet in the pre-season. So what? Donnie didn’t care, the coaches didn’t care and nobody on the team got mad. It’s not the first time a teammate snapped at Nickey for his over the top practice hits. LenDale nearly killed him 2 years ago.
4 x%x 5. He also played through a lot of pain and made a whole lot of opponents looks real stupid over the past 2 years.

The final analysis, you have no idea of what you speak.

by August West on May 30, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and 6. He shouldn't have done that, you're correct.

by August West on May 30, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh and...

He fumbles A LOT

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 2:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The list of QBs who fumbled more in 2007

Jon Kitna
Eli Manning
Jason Campbell
Kurt Warner
Jay Cutler
Philip Rivers
Josh McCown
Tony Romo

by August West on May 30, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jay Cutler!!!!!

Say it ain’t so!!!!!

He’s not a bust!!!!!

by gramsey712 on May 30, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And he only fumbled 1 more time than these QBs

Ben Roethlisberger
Drew Brees
Donovan McNabb
Matt Hasselbeck
Brett Favre

by August West on May 30, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Selective Stats

Eli Manning had 13 fumbles last year which was a career high for him. The other QB’s you listed either…

A. Fumble all the time just like Vince Young (see Kurt Warner)
B. Had career years in regards to fumbles

Regardless of how you judge it 10 fumbles is a lot of fumbles and the year prior to that he had 12 fumbles. The other QB’s on the list, such as Eli Manning and Tony Romo, have fumbling problems, but they are still far superior to Vince Young because they are more accurate and can actually run a pro offense.

Its amazing how you “fan boys” defend your loser QB!

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's said so much because it's true.

by August West on May 30, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That last comment was supposed to go elsewhere but the system wigged out

by August West on May 30, 2008 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So in summation, about 1/2 the QBs in the league, including 3 of the 4 conference championship QBs

can’t hold on to the damned ball either by your standards.

Check your stats next time chief.

by August West on May 30, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't he 2-2 against the Colts?

And only a dropped pass away from the field goal attempt at 3-1?

by gramsey712 on May 30, 2008 2:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

a missed 60 yard FG

and a second half with the Colts playing their starters from 0-4

my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com

by shake n bake on May 30, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Touche!

That really didn’t mean anything. I’m more of a team person.

I just typed that to get ya’ll going, and I expected more of a vitriolic response!

by gramsey712 on May 30, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is sad to see

a poor writer bash an athlete in order to generate hits for his website. But hey, mission accomplished. Congrats. I saw that there was a news article about Vince, and I came straight to your site, sure that there would be a new hate-filled rant. And there was. Is this a Colts blog, or is this an anti-Vince blog? It gets tough to tell.

At any rate, well done on getting more traffic to stampedeblue.com. You’ve successfully achieved the same thing that the shouting matches between ESPN analysts do: nothing.

by ctex80 on May 30, 2008 3:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow thanks!

If you don’t like it ctex80 then leave. You are a douche anyway!

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 3:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

haha

You just called someone a douche! Self-ban!

Go Colts!

by KingRichard on May 30, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

If mouthbreathing douchecanoe doesn’t get a ban (and it shouldn’t because it’s hilarious) then I don’t think douche does.

my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com

by shake n bake on May 30, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You grasp at those straws Titans fans!

Btw, that whole “Is this a Colts blog or…” argument is old and tired. That’s what all the moronic Pats fans use. The least you could do is be original.

Go Colts!

by KingRichard on May 30, 2008 3:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

So ya'll

are saying that there is no chance that the Titans beat the Colts this year?

by gramsey712 on May 30, 2008 3:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

There is a chance but...

Listen lets go through by position and see who has the advantage…

1. QB- Colts by a large margin
2. RB- Colts
3. WR- Colts
4. TE- Colts by a large margin
5. OL- Tie (maybe slight advantage to the Titans)
6. DE- Colts
7. DT- Slight edge to Titans
8. LB- Colts
9. CB- Colts
10. S- Colts by a large margin
11. K-Tie
12. Punter- Who cares

So in virtually every category the Colts have a significant advantage so it will be very hard for the Titans to win this year.

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 3:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Then why

have 3 of the last 4 (not counting the last game last year that was only a game for a half) been so close.

I mean with that kind of advantage, ya’ll should be killing us!

by gramsey712 on May 30, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry if that

argument is “old and tired”. Haven’t been reading this blog for very long. How many different fan bases have to mention it before you think they might, just maybe, be on to something?

I love the “if you don’t like it ctex80 then leave” approach, Master. And the “you are a douche anyway” part really put me in my place. Equally compelling arguments.

by ctex80 on May 30, 2008 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

"Old and tired"

The reason that the “Isn’t this a Colts site? Shouldn’t you be talking about the Colts?” argument is old and tired is because of the lack of imagination of the people who make it. What exactly would you (and others) suggest—that we limit the posts on this site to strictly Colts news and ignore stories about our biggest rivals and the NFL in general? If that’s the kind of sports blog you want, then fine. Do it on your own site. Around here, many of us believe that big news stories from our rivals and the NFL in general affect our team. The Colts don’t play in a vacuum, after all. We are rabid sports fans who, unlike some fans I could mention, are intersted not only in our own team, but also in the league and the game in general. When the Michael Vick thing went down, we talked about it. When the Patriots lost the Super Bowl, we talked about it. And now when the QB of a nasty division rival says something stupid, we’re gonna talk about it.

This is what sports blogs are all about. Look at how much discussion these last two VY threads have engendered: well over 200 comments combined! And while there’s been a lot of vitriol and name-calling thrown around, there’s also been a lot of interesting and very illuminating debate which has been well-supported with stats, quotes, and links to articles. I myself have learned several things, including a couple of names I didn’t expect to see in the QB fumbles list. I can’t think of a better microcosm of the passionate, well-supported, entertaining debate that makes a good sports blog than these discussions.

To try to shut that down by saying that this site should stick to the boring choice of covering the Colts and only the Colts seems to me to be the equivalent of threatening to take your toys and go home.

by ctnyc on May 30, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

there's a difference you're missing between 'coverage'

and ‘flinging open the door and taking a dump on a player just because BBS likes to distort and twist stories to piss people off.’

I’m out. This blog has the class of Fox News and the intelligence of Highlights for Children. Thanks for proving the meme correct that anonymity makes most people childish.

You guys have fun watching your team get old and getting your ass beat over the next decade by the Titans and VY.

by August West on May 30, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

old?

The Colts are the second-youngest team in the NFL

link, scroll to January 15th

my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com

by shake n bake on May 30, 2008 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

He really is taking his toys and going home.

by ctnyc on May 30, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They've started

They’ve started taking jabs at us over on MusicCityMiracles.

by TouchdownMonkey on May 30, 2008 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well that's fair

That’s their site.

by ctnyc on May 30, 2008 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Division

Division opponents should, and usually are, tough and close because the other team knows you so well.

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That is typically the case.

Makes sense.

by gramsey712 on May 30, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But I guess we could still agree

to disagree.

I just don’t understand the hate for Vince Young.

by gramsey712 on May 30, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

because

he makes ur team worse than they are. you would be better off with volek back in there

by skywalker on May 30, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So ya'll

keep dogging him because he makes your opponent worse?

by gramsey712 on May 30, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

we need

competition

by skywalker on May 30, 2008 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Listen, BBS and I hate Vince Young so much because of all the hype for a guy that is simple not that good. Sure Vince Young may develop that way just as Reggie Bush may develop one day, but it is not looking that way for either player.

The Titans have some solid pieces and you have one of the best coaches in the league. Vince Young makes your time worse. Kerry Collins is a better QB and even he is not that good.

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

All the hype?

Colts fans hate a player for being “over hyped”? Really?

And if we have one of the best coaches in the league, wouldn’t he start the best qb that he has?

by ctex80 on May 30, 2008 3:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Glad

Glad you mentioned that because its worth noting that Fisher never wanted Young; he preferred Leinart and Cutler.

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You were comparing Young to Collins

That is what I was responding to. One at a time, kids.

by ctex80 on May 30, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Come on Master!

Like Shake n Bake says “link it or it didn’t happen”

I personally still have not see Coach Fisher quoted that he wanted Leinert Or Cutler.

by gramsey712 on May 30, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In 14 years

including with the Oilers and when in the AFC Central division, Jeff Fisher has only managed to be in the top 2 6/14 times. has only won the division twice in 14 YEARS. he’s not that good

by skywalker on May 30, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

also

has been a .500 team or less in 9/14 years

by skywalker on May 30, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your boy

MasterRWayne said he was one of the best coaches in the league, not I. While I like Fisher, I’m not trying to make a case for his credentials.

by ctex80 on May 30, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also for the price of Vince Young...

All the money you guys pay Vince Young and for the same price the Colts get…

1. Ed Johnson
2. Freddie Keiaho
3. Gary Brackett
4. Tayjuan Hagler
5. Marlin Jackson
6. Kelvin Hayden
7. Antoine Bethea (a pro bowler)
8. Jeff Saturday (pro bowler)

Also in the 2006 draft instead of Young you could have gotten…

AJ Hawk
Ernie Simms
Jay Cutler
Antonio Cromartie
Joseph Addai
DeMeco Ryans

All of those players are currently better than Vince Young.

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 3:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Good for you?

Fail to see the point here.

And Tom Brady would have been the first overall pick.

Aren’t time machines wonderful?

by ctex80 on May 30, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

For my citation

See…

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/NFL_Czar/Reggie_Bush/6684

Leinart, however, was the choice of Tennessee coach Jeff Fisher and GM Floyd Reese. But Titans owner Bud Adams told his coach and personnel man to draft Texas quarterback Vince Young even though Leinart was rated higher on the final Tennessee draft board. Adams, who moved his team from Houston to Nashville in 1997, wanted Young, his hometown kid.

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 3:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I would rather have Vince than Leinart. No Contest.

And I think a number of Titans fans would agree with that.

by ctex80 on May 30, 2008 3:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

As

As Bill Polian said…

“If you start listening to fans pretty soon you will start sitting with them.”

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No answer

You still didn’t answer my point; are all of these players worse than Vince Young?

AJ Hawk
Ernie Simms
Jay Cutler
Antonio Cromartie
Joseph Addai
DeMeco Ryans

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I would rather have Vince than all of these players, yes.

Without Vince, Kerry Collins would be our starting qb. I think that the best long term investment is Vince, in that I believe he has the most potential. While this is obviously a list of very good – great players, I would rather have Vince because the only other QB on the list is Cutler, who I don’t think has the same upside as Vince. I know you don’t agree, but do you at least comprehend what I am saying?

by ctex80 on May 30, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Could have traded back for Cutler

and gotten Cutler plus any player taken after #17 (950 points of value on the draft value chart)

that would include
Cromartie (875)
Addai (620)
DeMeco Ryans (580)
Marcus McNeil (400)
Devin Hester (330)
Mo-Jo Drew (300)
Antonie Bethea (8.6)
Marques Colston (1)

So you would rather have Vince Young than:
Jay Cutler and Antonio Cromartie
Jay Cutler, Joseph Addai and Devin Hester
Jay Cutler, Marcus McNeil and MJD
Cutler, Addai and Drew

I won’t even go into the sleeper picks, I’ll just leave it at guys everyone knew would be good.

my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com

by shake n bake on May 30, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great post

Great post Shake, as usual.

Titans fans its fairly obvious to see that Vince Young was a pretty pore pick. Yes I know that he has “upside” and whenever I hear this it means, “he is really big and strong and can run fast.” Yet it has been shown time and time again that these “skills” are not essential to a great QB. Manning and Brady are two of the best EVER and they can’t run that fast, but man can they torch you were their arm!

Also Shake you could add Santonio Holmes to that list.

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 4:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Good Call

missed him,

Holmes (720)

my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com

by shake n bake on May 30, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty "pore" Pick? Really?

English, guys, E-N-G-L-I-S-H.

Ok, I’ll try to explain what many others have tried to…

We, the fans of the Tennessee Titans, do not believe that two seasons are enough to evaluate a quarterback’s career. In 4 or 5 years, perhaps we will say that we should have made a different draft choice. Please tell me that you people understand pragmatism.

Shake,

Do you not realize that we could play that game with almost every draft ever? I know that you think you are making a salient point, but it is merely an immature “what if?” scenario that has little purpose in this discussion. We also could have taken Tom Brady with our 1st round pick in 2000 and shocked the world. So what?

by ctex80 on May 30, 2008 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

that's why I stuck to top guys

Guys like Cutler, Cromartie, Addai, Ryans, MJD, etc were thought to be pretty good even at the time. It’s not like Vince Young had no questions around him and was a clear cut obvious pick at #3. There were questions about Young then like there are now. They could have had a much better draft just with guys that were thought to be top players at the time of the draft.

my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com

by shake n bake on May 30, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Red Herring

Wow thanks for going for spelling when you have nothing else to back the shit that has been spewing from your mouth recently.

Listen, Shake and I have made a series of points regarding how poor the Titans draft was in 2006. In fact, the Titans tend to draft poor overall but that is another story. Bottom line is that your OWNER drafted Vince Young because he would “sell more tickets” not because he was the best player on the board and that is why your organization… SUCKS!

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good God, boy

You just don’t get it. You cannot accurately evaluate a draft 2 seasons after it occurred!!!!!!
You still have no idea what the legacy of ANY of the players in that draft will be. Do you understand this? What part of this concept eludes you? Maybe I’ll put it in terms you will understand…

Was Peyton Manning’s legacy COMPLETE after 2 years in the league? 5 years? 8 years? Now???

by ctex80 on May 30, 2008 4:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks!

That bring up a great point; namely that after two years it was clear Manning was better than Ryan Leaf and most other players in the 1998 draft.

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes,

after 2 years you could tell that Peyton was better than one of the biggest busts of all time. Good job.

by ctex80 on May 30, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The book on Manning up until two years ago was that

he was a stat whore who never won shit. Not in college, not in the pros.

by ctex80 on May 30, 2008 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

only for morons who don't understand that

that football isn’t an individual sport.

my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com

by shake n bake on May 30, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tee fucking Martin

won a title at Tennessee, for Christ’s sake.

by ctex80 on May 30, 2008 4:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

maybe that suggest that QB play isn't the main factor

in winning a title

my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com

by shake n bake on May 30, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I doubt you'd agree with this statement

Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Steve McNair.

Trent Fucking Dilfer won a title and McNair didn’t

my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com

by shake n bake on May 30, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not making that argument

you fucking morons. The Tee Martin comment and the remark about “the book” on Manning were to illustrate how people make incorrect assumptions and assessments about players when they don’t have all of the information.

And I could give a shit if you think Dilfer is better than McNair.

by ctex80 on May 30, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The book?

That was what the crappy A-Holes at ESPN were saying about Manning. You know the SAME people that are now saying that Vince Young is a “winner.”

Which brings up the point that winning games is more about the TEAM than any one player. What part of that is so hard to understand?

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 4:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You know, I’m generally up for a good argument involving the umerciful ridicule of some annoying opposing fans, but I really wish you guys would all shut the hell up.

Go Colts!

by KingRichard on May 30, 2008 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's still months til football season

it’ll probably get worse before it gets better.

my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com

by shake n bake on May 30, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Quoting Metallica:
SAAAAAD BUT TRUUUUUUuuUUUEAAH! :(

Go Colts!

by KingRichard on May 30, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Quoting Birdman

I’d rather pop a bottle, before a pop a gat

I’m out

link (to explicit rap)

my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com

by shake n bake on May 30, 2008 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just don't get

Why the Titans fans get so defensive about a guy that really has yet to develop into even an average starting QB. Titans fans act as if BBS and I went up and smacked their mother across the face.

by MasterRWayne on May 30, 2008 4:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Pretty much. It’s not hard to see that the guy has shit stats. Hasn’t progressed one bit since his rookie year. Compulsive whiner who just can’t help but say some of the stupidest stuff I’ve ever seen. But hey, let them deal with it. Sucks to be a Titans fan! ahahaha

Go Colts!

by KingRichard on May 30, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh well.

There is no point in all of this. I will never agree with MasterR and Shake and BBS that Vince Young is the worthless human being and god-awful quarterback that they say he is. They will never concede that

a. You can’t evaluate a draft after two years.
b. The only time this site gets traffic is when you talk shit about Vince.

So round and round we would go. Obviously rational dialogue is not welcome here. I have strayed far from it myself on this site. My sincere apologies for the vulgarities and baiting. Good luck with the upcoming season, and with your lives in general. I wish you all the prosperity and health in the world.

by ctex80 on May 30, 2008 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

not true

we get traffic when we talk shit about the cowboys too ;-)

by skywalker on May 30, 2008 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Listen up genius. First off, there is no law governing when people are allowed to criticize an NFL player. Secondly, insulting the site isn’t going to make us believe you or want to read your babble anymore than we have to.

This is a Colts blog after all right? I mean, that’s what you and all of the other Titans fan screams as if it somehow makes you impervious to being in the wrong. So why the hell are you coming over here wasting our time with this trash, if you are just going to resort to sarcastically apologizing like you are somehow the better man in the end?

The way I see it (granted I have no authority around here), you have two options:
1. Be a little more open minded and join in on the (good) discussion that happens around here quite often.
2. Hit the bricks.

The King has spoken.

Go Colts!

by KingRichard on May 30, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jesus

I actually have a full day of work and get to a computer to read this same BS…again!

Give it a fucking rest guys. Can’t we all agree that it’s impossible to grade a player, especially a QB, after only two years?!?

by SuperHorn on May 30, 2008 5:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I refuse to agree with that.

Go Colts!

by KingRichard on May 30, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why?

by SuperHorn on May 30, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um…lets see, because I said so? I don’t think there is any logic behind giving any quarterback a 3-5 season pass. Any and all quarterbacks who are worth a crap have shown steady progression year after year. I mean look at Ben Roethlisberger (ha! I bet you thought I was going to use Peyton as an example…sucker!). He isn’t the greatest passer, the most accurate, or mind blowing in any aspect of QB play. But he uses his physical and mental abilities to make the plays work and has had success (re: 15-1 rookie season, SB win in second season). Generally you can see the good qualities in a player even though they might be new to a team’s system or just lacks experience. You can see something that impresses you and makes you think, “Man, this guy has a chance to be great.” Does anyone really see that in Vince Young? The only argument anyone has posted is, “Well, he’s still young! Give him time! You can’t expect him to be great after two seasons!” Yeah, you’re right. It’s wrong for us to expect him to be great after two seasons, but for the love of god, there has to be some inkling, some sliver of hope that makes you think that he has a chance. VY does not possess any quality that makes me or sane football fan believe he is going to be worth the time of day.

Go Colts!

by KingRichard on May 30, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

re: 15-1 rookie season, SB win in second season

Wait a second, if you’re using wins as a metric, didn’t VY progress last season?

"Man, this guy has a chance to be great." Does anyone really see that in Vince Young?

Are you really that ignorant? You think that people awarded him ROY based on his HYPE?!? Give me a break.

by SuperHorn on May 31, 2008 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn’t using wins as a metric. I was using cohesiveness and the ability to adapt to a system and situations which lead to wins. The Titans won 10 games last season because of their defense and running game. Are you that ignorant to not see this?

And yes, he was made Rookie of the Year because of the hype. If you don’t think Devin Hester deserved that award then you are messed in the head, plain and simple.

Go Colts!

by KingRichard on May 31, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I still am confused by your statement

I mean, anyone who watches football has to understand that a quarterback that is accurate and can run would be the ultimate combination. I can deal with the fact that you may think that Vince is still “raw”. But, I find it hard to believe that you can’t see Vince’s upside.

And, you’re making big assumptions by calling me ignorant about the Titans wins. I never said that they were because of VInce…I was only pointing out that if you are using that progression as a metric, then VY fits that criteria.

by SuperHorn on May 31, 2008 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't being sarcastic.

Really meant it. You are right. This is a Colts blog and you can trash players as much as you like. No laws impeding that. I’m not impervious to being wrong. I’ve actually admitted I was wrong on this blog. I also concurred with you that the trash talk back and forth was a waste of time.

I’m sure that this blog does have plenty to offer other than negative comments about opposing players/teams, I just haven’t seen much dialogue on those posts. Scroll up and down the home page and let me know if that statement is incorrect.

So this is me, not sarcastically, wishing you all the best, King.

by ctex80 on May 30, 2008 5:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

k

Go Colts!

by KingRichard on May 30, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In defense of Matt Leinart

I will probably get yelled at for this, but I’m kinda iffy on calling Leinart a bust yet. I mean, if you want to call him a bust because he busted up his collarbone, sure. People want to make a big deal about Ken Wisenhunt rotating quarterbacks, but it isn’t that big of a deal. Everyone reacts like he was DRAFTED by Ken Wisenhunt, which is a feat, since Kenny boy was still employed by Pittsburgh and Denny Green was there. There’s one thing that’s often overlooked in the draft process, and that’s FIT. Is this player a good FIT for the team that he’s on? I’d say Matt Leinart won’t amount to much in Arizona, the talent isn’t THAT great there, and his removal neither hurt nor helped the Cardinals be anything than mediocre. Now, in some alternate history, Leinart was drafted by the Titans when they had Norm Chow? Probably a better fit, as Leinart already has an inside track to his offense. Ownership is bad in Arizona. There was no reason to fire Denny Green, and they pretty much flushed any progress Matt made in his rookie year.

Now, I wouldn’t mind a few questions being answered for me:

1. Why do you feel Matt Leinart is a bust? Saying he sucks and blah de blah will be ignored.

2. What specifically could he do to not be a bust in your eyes?

3. Is there any specific and objective reason you hate Matt Leinart?

Thank you

by Marik on May 31, 2008 9:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I thought this was a VY hate thread only

I don’t think Leinart is a bust. Too early to tell.

by SuperHorn on May 31, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's less to evaluate on Leinart

since he’s been hurt and was being subbed out. He could improve, but his numbers so far have been ugly and not what you want for a guy that fell to 10th overall.

my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com

by shake n bake on May 31, 2008 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Being stupid isn't a death sentance for NFL QBs

Brian Burke finds here that there is little to no relationship between Wonderlic scores and a QBs rate stats (Yards per attempt, INT%, yards per completion, etc)

There is a relationship between wonderlic scores and total passing stats in a QBs first 4 seasons (smart QBs learn the offense and get on the field faster), so it might not be a good idea to keep changing the offense on a QB with less than average intelligence.

my blog http://shakennbaken.blogspot.com

by shake n bake on May 31, 2008 12:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

reason for being defensive

MasterRWayne…...the reason the Titan’s fans are being so defensive about your assessment of VY is because they are still holding out hope that he’ll mature into something. Otherwise, they know that they’re wasting the next 3 to 4 years. I think it’s called denial. Obviously Vince Young is somewhat of a joke. I compare him to Michael Vick. Both had some physical skills, but neither would ever be destined to lead their teams to any kind of meaningful dynasty. I think the Titans can be assured of coming in third or fourth in the AFC South with that hack at QB.

by drlove on Jun 1, 2008 2:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs