The Bright Side: Polian will get to see how sucky Jim Sorgi is

by BigBlueShoe on Jul 16, 2008 8:39 AM EDT in Analysis Comment 20 comments

Jim Sogi, Maytag Repairman

If there is a bright side to Peyton Manning missing a big chunk of training camp and pre-season it's that longtime back-up QB Jim Sorgi will get plenty of practice reps with the first unit. He will also play more snaps with the first unit offense during pre-season than any other time prior. This likely means management will finally see what we fans have suspected for a while.

That Sorgi stinks, and they need a better back-up QB.

Now, for me personally, I don't hate Jim Sorgi. I just don't think he has the tools to lead this team to wins if anything happens to Peyton. Now, if I'm wrong, this is Sorgi's opportunity to prove his worth. If he screws up, it simply re-inforces my stance. The key here is if he stinks it up, Bill Polian better damn well do something about replacing him.

I wrote an article several months ago about Chris Simms possibly finding his way to Indy as a back-up. Now, local Tampa Bay bloggers are starting to warm to this idea. Now, I admit the blog entry I have linked (via Buc'Em) is wrought with errors (they say Peyton will miss all of camp and part of the regular season, and they don't even list Sorgi as the Colts back-up), but it does give insight into what Simms might be thinking. If he wants to prove himself, what better place to do so than in Indy during pre-season minus Peyton Manning. Simms has struggled in Jon Gruden's hybrid West Coast offense, which seems so complicated that only 85-year-old grizzled QBs like Rich Gannon, Brad Johnson, and Jeff Garcia can understand it.

In Indy, the Manning-Moore offense is tailor made for Simms' football knowledge and strong arm. He's an option the Colts should give serious consideration to, especially if Sorgi looks shaky even in the Hall of Fame game. Again, if there is a positive to this situation it is we will finally see what Jim Sorgi has in terms of talent. No more excuses. He either shows he has skill this pre-season, or the Colts have to find someone else to back-up Peyton.

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Simms

The Colts are my team. I am an Indy guy and Colt’s fan living in Tampa but, can’t help watching and reading articles about the Bucs as well. I can tell you that I and most of the others who watch the Bucs, think that Simms is a joke. I think he would be an awful fit in Indy. I haven’t seen him do anything memorable in Tampa. He would be no upgrade to Sorgi. The Colts may very well need to upgrade the back-up QB spot, just NOT with Simms. And remember, Sorgi would probably look a lot better if he’s given a chance to play with the starters. Conversely, Manning doesn’t look as good playing with the scrubs…...look at the San Diego game last year. Don’t get me wrong, I think Manning is the best to ever play the game. It’s just that surrounding players make an impact.

by drlove on Jul 16, 2008 9:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Which San Diego game?

The one where he seemed to single-handily lead them to victory only to have Adam miss a gimme FG, or the playoff game where he shredded SD’s defense for over 400 yards?

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by BigBlueShoe on Jul 16, 2008 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And thx

For the info on Simms. I thought he played very well in 2004 (?) when he led the Bucs to the playoffs.

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by BigBlueShoe on Jul 16, 2008 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

San Diego game

I’m talking about the first game in San Diego…..the away game…..the 6 interception game. They still almost won it, you’re right. That shows you how good Manning is. But, if there weren’t so many injuries, and he had more of the first team around him, they would have blown San Diego out of the water….and not have to depend on a Vinitieri field goal. Simms still sucks.

by drlove on Jul 16, 2008 10:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

I just don’t get this argument to replace Sorgi. Especially when you start arguing that someone like Chris Simms is an upgrade. Are you serious? Simms is poop – that’s why he couldn’t hold down a starting job at Texas (Major Applewhite? What’s he up to these days?), and why he can’t win the starting job in TB. Also, you make the argument that the Manning-Moore offense is tailor made for Simms, but you give no supporting statements. Sorry, but I don’t buy that the Colts system is just perfectly set up for Simms, and if he came in, the sky’s the limit. I think the Colts offense is complicated and takes years to master. I think Sorgi’s experience in the system outweighs any possible difference in talent between him and Simms, if there even is any.

If you want the Colts to make an upgrade at the backup QB position, you are basically saying you want the Colts to spend more money. No one any better than Sorgi is going to play here for the same money. Thus, you want the Colts to spend more money and take a bigger cap hit on a guy that never sees the field. Just think about that – more of a cap hit for a guy who the Colts may or may not need at some point in the future for a few games. In the meantime, the Colts may not be able to sign a player that can actually help the Colts win a championship when Peyton’s on the field, which is the only time the Colts will ever win a championship. I’m sorry, I just think it’s dumb. We will only win championships if Peyton is playing. If he gets injured, we have no shot. I know what you will say BBS, because you’ve said it before: “Yes, but we may need someone to step in and win some games for a few weeks during a Peyton injury, and that could be the difference between making the playoffs when Peyton can play, and no postseason.” Frankly, I am much more willing to gamble on the chance that Peyton can continue to stay healthy, and if not, that our improved D along with Sorgi can win some games in the meantime, than I am committing more money and taking a bigger cap hit after year for a guy who holds a clipboard.

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by shonuff on Jul 16, 2008 10:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That's fair

I haven’t seen Sorgi DO anything to make me think he can be an NFL QB. Simms has played QB well before, and he did lead Tampa to the playoffs a few years ago. He’s got a strong arm (unlike Sorgi), and he’s shown he can make NFL throws. I think bringing up his college career is a little silly. I mean, Vince young dominated in college and Peyton Manning was a “choker.” Tennessee won a championship the year after Manning turned pro, with Tee Martin. A person’s college career means nothing in the NFL.

I think Simms could cut it. Remember, this guy is coming back from a ruptured spleen. He could have died on the football field with that injury. Don’t let Jon Gruden’s inept coaching cloud your views on Simms. Gruden is garbage. Players don’t like playing for them because he grinds them into the ground, and will turn on them in a heart beat.

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by BigBlueShoe on Jul 16, 2008 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Regardless of whether

the Bears see Sorgi or manning in his first game back, my chances just go a bit better.

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by Adam T on Jul 16, 2008 10:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Dilfer

I think the Colts might call Dilfer out of retirement just like Ricky Proehl. Or maybe Farve. I’m just kidding on both. But if we Colts fans have to go through the pain of Sorgi struggling there will be hell to pay. Hey, I think Shaun King is still playing arena football. King looked better than Sorgi in preseason I thought. I think we can all relax because we all know it will be a cold day in hell when Manning doesn’t start a regular season game. My biggest fear is tha he will be a little rusty.

by colts9318rock on Jul 16, 2008 10:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't be so sure about Dilfer

His retirement was due in part tearing his ACL last week.

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by JakeTheSnake on Jul 16, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

QBs

All I can say is that I’ve watched Simms closely for his tenure in Tampa and haven’t been impressed. He’s had a few bright moments, and some absolutely awful ones too. Is he better than Sorgi? I don’t know. We’ve really only seen Sorgi on limited occasions and surrounded by inferior players than what typically surrounds Peyton. They don’t call him the Maytag repairman for nothing. Maybe if Sorgi had a run of 4 or 5 games starting and surrounded by the first team, he would get comfortable and look great. I hope that doesn’t happen, because I want Peyton playing. When I saw Sorgi playing in that ridiculous game last year against the Titans, I was really irritated. I was the first one calling for his head. However, in all fairness to him, it’s difficult being surrounded by less than the best. And, when Sorgi goes into a game, the 2nd and 3rd team go in as well. My point earlier is that even Manning can have a game with a few more ‘presses’ and interceptions (trying to make things happen), when his best supporting cast is not present. Sorgi has less than the best supporting cast every time he goes into a game. I respect Polian and his abilities in evaluating talent. He obviously sees something in Sorgi. I have to respect that. We may get Sorgi’s real potential put to the test sooner than later….unfortuately. I prefer him to be the Maytag repairman.

by drlove on Jul 16, 2008 11:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Simms

Just a quick look at his FO stats

2004: Awful in limited time, 87 attempts, below replacement level
2005: Mediocre starter ~20th in the league, above average per play
2006: Awful in limited time, 105 attempts before his spleen was ruptured by a sack ending his season, below replacement level

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by shake n bake on Jul 16, 2008 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's worth noting

that other QBs have no faired well in this offense of Gruden’s both during Simms’ tenure after after. Last season, Gruden’s supposed savior, Jeff Garcia, had a mediocre statistical season (only 13 TDs in a pass first offense). Before that, they had Gratkowski (horrible) and Greise (bad).

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by BigBlueShoe on Jul 16, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

collecting QBs

Yes, Gruden seems to have a knack for collecting bad to mediocre QBs. He ought to focus on getting just one really good one. Just goes to show you how clueless Gruden is. Anyone who would play Gradkowski for one minute is obviously living in another world. I’ll say this though about Gruden, he’s great at making faces.

by drlove on Jul 16, 2008 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sorgi=Deer in Headlights

The only reason Sorgi has only lasted on the roster this long is because he’s been relatively cheap and will never have a starters mentality to clash with Peyton. He hasn’t shown anything in his limited time with the starters that would give me any confidence that we could win with him on a consistent basis. His throws are ALWAYS high and he seems scared out there.

With that being said, I’m all for giving Simms a shot. He can only be as good as the pieces he has around him and Simms has NEVER had the type of weapons he would have if he came here. How many pro bowlers were on that the 05’ buc offense? I live in Cocoa Beach, Fl so I’ve seen him more than enough times to realize that he’d make a great back-up.

by vcoxiv on Jul 16, 2008 1:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Colts need NFL QB sons. It’s worked so far. Now we can have Archie and Phil be the dads on the team. Archie will secretly be jealous that Simms was on the Super Bowl-winning Giants with the great linebackers while Archie was with the Saints. Passive-Agressive attacks would be flying. Good times.

Sorgi isn’t a good QB. That’s been made evident. However, I would be a little hesitant to get Simms. IMO, the backup QB should have a spotless injury history. Simms had that serious spleen rupture, and he hasn’t played since.

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by Colts Homer on Jul 16, 2008 1:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You know

If someone (a blogger perhaps) wrote an article on his or her blog offering suggestions as to who the Colts should target as a potential back-up once 53-man cuts start happening, I’m pretty sure I’d link to it. Just saying. ;)

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by BigBlueShoe on Jul 16, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Polian already said they are not signing another QB.

I firmly believe Betts will be pretty good though and look forward to seeing more of him. He almost reminds me of Jim Harbaugh in some ways. It will not hurt Sorgi to get more playing time with the starters. And we can finally see him more often to evaluate him this preseason better.

The o-line will also have to learn to protect longer since his release is obviously not as quick as Manning’s.

by HelloKitty on Jul 16, 2008 9:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs