Player Review: Marvin Harrison

by shake n bake on Jan 14, 2009 5:15 PM EST Comment 17 comments

We'll stay on offense and kick things off again with a player who sparked disagreement.

For the first time in Peyton Era Marvin Harrison played in more than 12 games and fell short of 80 receptions, 1,000 yards receiving and 10 TDs.

Games	Rec	Yards	YPR	TD	DYAR	DVOA	Catch%
15	60	636	10.6	5	19 (64th)	-9.1% (63rd)	56%

Marvin's decline was hard to see, both literally and emotionally. Marvin could still beat a corner deep (ask Chris McAllister) still work the short routes for easy yards, still catch the football, but week after week he just wasn't as productive. Marvin's decline wasn't obvious on the field because it was an all around decline. He didn't get open as often and when he did it was on short routes (10.6 is his lowest YPC of his career and is 2.6 below his career average). He didn't catch the ball as well, putting up a catch % that is more in line with a deep threat WR or a questionable handed guy like TO. He was still an effective WR, but a far stretch from the Marvin we all were acustom to.

Contract Info: signed through 2011, cap charges 13.4mil, 13.0mil, 11.4mil

There are 3 possible outcomes for Marvin this offseason, pay cut, release, retirement. There is nearly no chance the Colts will be able to pay 13.4 million against the cap for a WR that has fallen as far as Marv.

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I've always loved Harrison,

but nothing gold can stay, and all beauty must die, etc. etc.

Personally… I’d like to see him retire, in that I realize that we simply cannot pay 13M in 2009 for an aging receiver… but, at the same time, I don’t want to see him playing in any jersey but ours.

Plus… he’d be retiring as a starter.

by hahasound on Jan 14, 2009 5:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I hope he retires.

I couldn’t see him in any other team’s uniform. This is a sad one Shake.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Jan 14, 2009 5:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

hope so too

Want to see him retire a colt and be in the hall of fame in 5 years…. Hate to see him pull a jerry rice. There is nothing more pathetic than watching an aging player hang on way too long.

An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing...

by bluegirl on Jan 14, 2009 5:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I want to see him get in with Dungy. That would be awesome.

by Colts Homer on Jan 14, 2009 8:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

From what I saw

I hope Polian saw it too, but I also hope Marvin realizes that a 13.4 million hit with other issues that need addressing (Saturday, Hayde, draft picks) he has to restructure. He has to realize that if he goes anywhere but the Colts he’d be lucky if he made in the 5-6 million range. I’d say if he did leave he’d be looking at more of the 3-4 million because of the common perception.

With that said, there’s more to it than is actually shown by just the pure numbers. Yes, Marvin wasn’t playing as well as he had been, but that’s not 100% his fault. Marvin was still getting open, and I’m talking wide open. Peyton and Marvin came to know each other so well that, simply put, he throws passes to him differently than any other receiver on the team. They were so in sync that I believe they took it for granted. And Peyton’s timing was definitely off in phases throughout the year. I’m not blaming anything on Peyton, but let’s just take 1 pass to Wayne away. The 72 yard TD against the Steelers came from a pass that should have been intercepted. That would’ve put Wayne’s numbers for the year with 1 pass at 1073 yards, 13.0 average, and 5 TDs. Now, and I understand that had Marvin been playing like Marvin and Manning had been playing like Manning, there are a few passes that SHOULD have been completed to Harrison and they weren’t his fault. If you remember the 4th and 1 pass that set us up for the game winning FG in SD should have been a TD. The only reason they won that game is because Harrison, who was 20 yards away from a Chargers defender, had to make an insane catch coming back to an extremely underthrown ball. There were at least two more that I can remember that should have been 30+ yard TDs where Marvin put on insane moves. I forget which game it was, but one of them he made the double coverage on him look completely like highschoolers. And there was this other one in the game:

“On the interception, WR Marvin Harrison was open down the deep middle of the field, but the pass was under thrown and it was picked off by Chargers’ CB Quentin Jammer”

That was thrown from the IND 44 yard line, that’s a 56 yard TD right there, the second was from the IND 48, that’s a 52 right there. So let’s add one 30 yarder (because I know I saw one at least that far and I don’t want to assume more than I can call conservative). And subract 42 from the SD game to account for the yards he was given. So, and like I said, I know for a fact that he had more passes missed that weren’t his fault, and yes, he had drops that were uncharacteristic but he was open enough to get them so that’s not saying he can’t still play, we’re looking at about 800 yards and 8 TDs. Well, you know, when Wayne only had about 200 more yards, I wouldn’t exactly say Marvin’s washed up. That’s not bad for a player coming off a serious knee injury who is known for being a timing receiver missing over a year and a half with his QB. And straight up, I love the guy and he’s the best QB I’ve ever seen play and will probably be the best ever so don’t take this the wrong, but yes, Peyton Manning missed a wide open Marvin Harrison on multiple occasions this year.

Ah, sorry, I was on ESPN pointing out their writers are hacks. I don’t even know if this is done, but I’m tired of dealing with idiots. (Not you guys, ESPN).

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3827402

After reading that, I’m actually 90% sure Harrison didn’t do it. I knew it was a witch hunt to begin with, but wow, they’re about to get their asses sued. Freedom of the press doesn’t prevent you from being taken to court for slander.

by monstersbox on Jan 14, 2009 8:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Marvin needs to be told by Polian, “Look. We love you and you are the greatest Indianapolis Colts receiver in history, but this is a business. Either you restructure your contract so we can resign Kelvin and Jeff or else you played your last year in Indy. We want you to stay, but 13.4 million is a lot of money in a 110 million dollar cap. So either we will see you next year at camp with a brand new contract or else we will be in Canton in five years for your induction.”

by Colts Homer on Jan 14, 2009 9:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

And

That’s probably how it’ll go. And I think Harrison will do it. All the fallout from the media bashing isn’t going to make him want to just dip out. He knows his HoF will be questioned with this BS. Admittedly unsubstantiated, but if it were me, the difference between being released with this hanging over me and taking a pay cut to retire a Colt, I know my decision would be easy.

by monstersbox on Jan 14, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

very true

If he restructured I’d be happy to have him back. Is still a better receiver than most, and part of his numbers being down is due to Peyton having come to rely on Reggie more after Marvin being out most of 2007. If he stays an offseason together again will probably get him and Peyton back on the same page.

An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing...

by bluegirl on Jan 15, 2009 5:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I definitely prefer restructuring over releasing. There were a good handful of times this year that he was pretty open deep and Peyton either under or over threw him. I mean it got to be a regular, once a game thing that we would lose a TD because Peyton couldn’t connect. Granted, perhaps Peyton expected him to be somewhere else because of lost speed but regardless, Marvin was open for long TD’s that they normally connect on. $13 Mil isn’t worth it but cut it in half and with a full training camp and preseason I think they can post numbers a little closer to what we’re used to

by psvirsky on Jan 15, 2009 7:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It'd be less expensive anyway

To get a receiver that’s at his ability now or to consider it an upgrade, we’d have to pay them 3-5 million easily. Considering that if we release him, we still owe him over 6, it’d be much less expensive to keep him and still allow us to have some cap space.

Well, I can’t say that with 100% accuracy. Does anyone know if they can restructure him to the same cap hit we’d be taking anyway by releasing him? His agent must know that if he even wanted to, which I don’t think he does, go somewhere else, he wouldn’t be making much more than 8 million including his next season’s earnings from the Colts. And there’s no way anyone takes on that 13 million hit through a trade.

About incentives. I’m pretty sure incentives met/not met aren’t factored in at the beginning of the year because the player has a chance to reach it and get paid that. So if you had to pay out incentives, you could substantially go over the cap number and that would put teams at a significant advtanage and sort of incur a “debt” if you will. So if Marvin had his salary taken down to 6 million with a 2 million bonus for 1200 yards, a 3 million for 14 TDs, and a 2 million for starting all 16 games, he would still count for 13 million this year. If he didn’t reach any of those milestones, that is a debt the league owes the Colts so we’d have 7 million to work with but only after the 2009 season.

http://www.mattspatsblog.com/?p=80

http://www.mattspatsblog.com/?p=619

Those Patriots are sneaky guys.

by monstersbox on Jan 15, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Incentives/Milestones

What if they restructure, but give him bonus money for certain milestones achieved (1000 yds, 12 TD, 80 receptions, etc.)? That way he’s truly worth his output. Anyone know how that would affect the cap hit?

by TouchdownMonkey on Jan 15, 2009 11:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Marvin

It would be good to have Marvin stay. It’s pretty clear the Colts want to surround Manning with lots of receiving weapons. I really can’t disagree with that strategy, even if we haven’t won more Super Bowls and we need to make efforts to improve the run game.

Marvin will stay depending on what he can get paid. I don’t really know how the cap works, but I would imagine if he can make a million more guaranteed somewhere else, he’ll go there. I’ld love to have him back, but I’m still interested in the idea of the Colts adding another WR. Maybe a big back and another OL as well. You can never have enough quality OL. DT is important, but I feel like those are often busts. I would just take best available talent.

Anyways, my point was it would be great to have Marvin back, but he can’t make that much money next year. I would be shocked if the Colts see it differently. I’m sure the Colts will handle it in a professional manner.

by menms on Jan 15, 2009 11:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Marvin's knee

I remember reading a story earlier in the year, I think it was recounting the pregame stuff at Pittsburgh, and the writer brought up the fact that Wayne and Manning are still doing route-tree stuff without Marvin, because Marvin’s doing rehab in the pregame. Like a few others have commented, I wonder if Marvin’s numbers this year dipped more because of being unable to work in the same rhythm with Manning than because of the physical limitations.

At this point, I think restructuring or release is a bygone conclusion, with release (or retirement) most likely. He can’t be a $13 mil cap hit next year. But I do think Marvin’s performance this year doesn’t necessarily indicate he’s been debilitated by age. A full year in training camp with Manning, perhaps getting all the way back into the practice and pregame rituals he had before, Marvin could still have a great year left in him.

That said, if Marvin goes elsewhere, as much as I’d hate to see him in another uniform, football lives are short and he should live as much of his as he wants. I don’t fault the Packers for moving on without Favre, and I wouldn’t fault Polian for doing the same with Marvin, but the worst part of the Favre news was the number of people telling him to retire and go away. If someone will pay him, I think we should all be happy that Marvin doesn’t have to give up a professional life and begin a retirement that could last 40 years. If the options were playing low-quality football or running my bar and car wash in Philly for 30 years, I might play way past my prime for any team that would let me on a roster. I don’t think we should fault Marvin if he chooses to do the same.

by CooperManningsNotTrying on Jan 15, 2009 3:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'll take marv over receiver x any day.

Marvin’s numbers were down, yes, but I think that’s less about Marvin and more about the general dysfunction of the passing game this season. Others have said it too; I can’t count the number of times this season that Marvin had toasted someone and the ball got underthrown. He’s still a terrific route-runner, is still sure-handed (yeah, he had some drops, but even reggie had his share of drops this year), and he always, ALWAYS gets the first down with his feet in bounds. Of course, if you made me choose between Harrison and a TJ Houshmanzadeh or an Anquan Boldin, it’s not a mystery who I’d pick. But I think that Marvin has the class and the competitiveness to restructure so he can stay on, and we can maybe start grooming a replacement, someone who can take the third receiver position, either on the outside or in the slot. I just have more faith in Harrison than Gonzalez right now.

And it’s hard to call a receiver done when he puts up two scores on the Baltimore Ravens. He’s not 2003 Marv, but dammit, he’s still Marv.

by slash196 on Jan 15, 2009 6:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Gonzo

I wouldn’t say Marvin is significantly better than Gonzo, and I know you didn’t say that but I’ll just say something quick. Gonzo showed significant improvement this year, especially considering he’s been learning the NFL system from the slot. But he’s starting to bring the skills that made the Colts take him in the 2006 draft and implementing them from what he’s learned about being a receiver in the NFL. The guys recognition of blitzes and pulling off routes is awesome. And I just have a feeling that if you throw the ball within the vicinity of him, he’ll catch passes he has no right catching. He’s deceptively quick and fast. He has the sixth fastest time ever recorded in the 3-cone drill. I believe it’s more important than 40 yard times in assessing WRs potential. It focuses on changes of direction and bursts of speed coming out of cuts more than straight line speed that focuses way too much on reaction time and great starts. But if you were interested, his combine 40 was 4.44 which is impressive, but he’s been clocked in the 4.36-4.38 range multiple times. Not to mention he has a 38 inch vertical.

So what’s my point? I’d actually like to see if putting Marvin in the slot, with his phenomenal route running that he still has, and Gonzalez out wide left and Wayne wide right, like they did in Jacksonville, would improve the offense. I think we’re wasting a high 4.3 40 player with great hands, great route running, and the ability to go up and get the ball. His natural position is either flanker or split end, and I actually see them going to this if they keep Marvin or if they bring someone else in. Marvin actually had most of his best passes on crossing routes and looked great in the slot. I mean, what’re teams going to do if you put him there? You can’t pull a CB into the middle and leave Gonzalez on a safety, he’ll torch him. And I’ll take Gonzalez one on one against a corner, I like his chances. Harrison in the slot would be a huge mismatch.

Anyway, I lost my train of thought, so that’s it.

by monstersbox on Jan 15, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs