Another possible defensive coordinator candidate
by Brad Wells on Jan 21, 2009 11:22 AM EST
in Colts Analysis
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Former Broncos defensive coordinator Larry Coyer
Photo: cache.daylife.com
Yesterday, we ran down the list of possible defensive coordinators in wake of Ron Meeks resigning. One name I'd like to toss into that bag of candidates is former Buccaneers assistant head coach Larry Coyer. You all might remember Coyer when he was the defensive coordinator of the Denver Broncos. He ran a Cover-2 scheme in Denver and the results were very positive. From 2003-2006, Coyer's defenses in Denver ranked in the top 7 overall, surrendered an average of 93 rushing yards a game, and gave up an average of 18 points per game. His downfall in Denver involved two people: Mike Shanahan and Peyton Manning.
My opinions on Shahahan are well known to Denver fans, and many of them hate me for it. He was one of the most over-rated coaches in football, and his firing a few weeks ago was LONG overdue. Shanahan knew next to nothing about coaching defense and often pointed the finger at others when things went bad rather than manning up and accepting responsibility for his own stupidity. Guys like Ted Sunquist (former GM, fired by Shanahan), Jim Bates (former assistant head coach, fired by Shanahan), and Coyer (former Broncos DC, fired by Shanahan) are all examples of Shanny sacking his subordinates rather than accepting personal blame.
In Coyers' case, the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Denver's defense was a top 10 defense when he ran it from 2003-2006. Since he has been fired, Denver's defense has become a laughing stock. The excuse Shanny used to fired Coyer was the performance of the Denver defense in the playoffs against Peyton Manning, and their supposed "collapse" at the end of the 2006 season.
In 2003 and 2004, the Broncos had the unfortunate luck of facing Peyton Manning and the Colts in the first round (both games in Indy). Those two games were blow outs by halftime, and in many ways exposed the glaring coaching deficiencies of Mike Shanahan. The reason Denver failed so miserably in the 2003 and 2004 playoffs is because Denver's Cover-2 defense had ZERO pass rush. As we Colts fans can attest to, a good, well-coached Cover-2 can help you get to the post-season, but if you do not have a pass rush-- you are dog meat.
Shanny's answer to the pass rushing personnel problem was to sign draft busts Courtney Brown and Gerrard Warren from Cleveland. All Coyer did was take these losers and coach them into solid players. But, "solid" players do not help generate pass rush in the playoffs. You've got to have game breakers rushing your opponent's passer. But with so much money tied up in CB Champ Bailey, finding a great DE was not an option for Denver.
Again, rather than owning up to the personnel failures himself (Shanahan had complete control over personnel), he simply fired his coordinator following the 2006 season. Since then, Denver has gone through a series of horrible defenses, ranging from Jim Bates' out-dated "Two Fatties in the middle" defense to the "WTF" scheme they ran last year, which surrendered 28 points per game.
After Coyer left Denver, he ended up in Tampa Bay as Jon Gruden's assistant head coach and defensive line coach. He did an admirable job there, replacing Ron Marinelli a d-line coach, and working with another highly over-rated coach in Gruden. Small side note- It is fitting that both Gruden and Shanahan were both fired in the same year. It is also fitting that both these boobs will not be coaching in 2009. If the NFL never sees these clowns again, it's a good thing.
With Gruden now gone from Tampa Bay, Coyer is out of work. He is 66 years old, but if he is brought in here it is because Caldwell and Polian respect his ability to coach and teach. He has a proven track record, but has worked for some crappy bosses the last two jobs he has had. Maybe a change of culture (and a pass rush) would work for him.
Now, I await the flurry of Broncos fans who will no doubt call me a jack-ass and insult my mother. It's ok. If Peyton Manning owned my team the way Manning owns the Donkeys, I'd hate the Colts blogger too.
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Doesn't sound like a bad choice at all
I’d put him with Alan Williams/Herm as the best of actually attainable coaches (behind Kiffen and Fraizer)
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
You still think
Herm is capable of the Job? Personally, Herm is at the bottom of my list. The only thing I would want him to do for the Colts is be a DB’s coach or some other kind of assistant.
by metal_militia on Jan 21, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
if terrible head coaches can be great coordinators
then I think it’s a decent bet a mediocre head coach could be an excellent coordinator.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Jan 21, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Although he is behind Herm and Allan as far as I'm concerned
How bout throwing Rod Marrineli in the mix since both the Kiffan’s went to coach at the University of Tennessee?
PS.
I’d say this Coyer dude and Herm sound like the 2 best candidates for the Colts new DC job. But if Herm comes to the team, I put Allan Williams at DC and give Herm Allan’s old job (D-backs coach). I just think Allan deserves to be DC more then Herm, because Herm can coach the D-backs and Allan has in my mind earned his stripes for the Colts far more then Herm.
by PatsR18*andDONEwithoutCHEATING on Jan 21, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting candidate
Sounds like a pretty decent choice. It’s hard to say how good he is at specifics but it seems like there are no glaring negatives and his D did decently well. Looks like most of his experience came in the college ranks.
Also, wikipedia says his son went to IU (and played on a national championship soccer team) so he has some semi-local ties.
I saw this
On the Colts forum last night, and from what they said he sounds better than a band-aid. I’m still pulling for Rivera or Kiffin, but at least this wouldn’t be an “Oh my God…” choice. I’m just trying to figure out why Rivera hasn’t been extended or announced as the permanent DC in San Diego. At least that gives me hope. Kiffin if a 5% chance or less. Not ruling it out, but unlikely.
I’m not so sure about this guy. He seems like another Meeks equivalent. Nothing special, but not horrible either. I’m still holding out hope that Marvin Lewis will be fired soon and Polian brings him in.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
I dunno about Marvin Lewis
Marvin Lewis may not be that great of a candidate. Since he was under Cowher longer then Dungy and coaches more like Cowher then Dungy. Which means he blitzes more and would most likely put Daniel Morh & Antonio Johnson at DT. Then keep Freeney at DE, put Kiaho in Brackets spot, put Wheeler in Kiaho’s spot then put Mathis (clearly a failure at the LB position) in Session’s spot, then let Gary Bracket & Keyanai Dawson go, move Session back to safety, and let Raheem Brock, Josh Thomas, & Eric Foster battle for the end spot opposite Freeney. No offense or anything, but I don’t think that sounds like a good line up for the Colts. Or maybe he’ll put Wheeler in the middle you never know.
I like the idea of moving Allan Williams to DC and giving Herm Edwards Allan Williams old job (D-backs coach) since Herm has never been a coordinator.
by PatsR18*andDONEwithoutCHEATING on Jan 21, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
it's like his username
you can see where he’s going, but the are some mistakes along the way and it probably wasn’t a good idea to start with.
I think he’s describing a move to a 3-4, but that doesn’t make sense because Marvin Lewis runs a 4-3 in Cinci.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Jan 21, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
and Marv Lewis never worked under Dungy from what I can tell
and a few of those player names aren’t even close to right.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Jan 21, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
What I'm saying is as simple as this
Marvin Lewis, because he was under Bill Cowher longer then Tony Dungy isn’t a good candidate for the Colts new DC. he would want his depth chart would look something like this because he as under Cowher longer then Dungy:
DE-Dwight Freeney, Josh Thomas
DT-Daniel Mohr, Darrel Read
DT-Antonio Johnson, & who ever else the Colts draft
DE-Raheem Brock, Eric Foster
SLB-Robert Mathis, Marcus Howard (2 good DE’s, but failures waiting to happen at the LB position)
MLB-Phillip Wheeler, Freddie Kiaho
WLB-Freddie Kiaho, Jordan Sen
SS-Bob Sanders, Melvin Bulit, Clint Session
CB-same
FS-Antwone Buthai, Matt Geordano
And Marvin Lewis would want to cut Keyantai Dawson & Garry Brackett because they are too small.
by PatsR18*andDONEwithoutCHEATING on Jan 21, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
It's not a 3-4
It’s just a bigger sized 4-3
by PatsR18*andDONEwithoutCHEATING on Jan 21, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
I am amazed the combination of how well you know the roster
and how bad you are at spelling their names. Half of the player names are wrong, but you knew 20 defenders.
The point is moot since the new DC is hired, but changing the D like that is so retarded that I doubt anyone would actually try that, let alone someone with the coaching skills to be a NFL Head Coach.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Jan 22, 2009 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
Marvin Lewis would
He has never played a 3-4 in Cinci and placed David Pollock a 260 LBS DE @ OLB.
by PatsR18*andDONEwithoutCHEATING on Jan 22, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
LB
+ Lewis doesn’t play a Tampa 2. And allot of the time small OLB’s like Clint Sesson, Cato June, & Derrik Brooks in a Tampa 2 are regarded as safety’s in almost every other type of defense
by PatsR18*andDONEwithoutCHEATING on Jan 22, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
OK time for my 2 cents
First off I would like to say that this is one good article and the person who wrote it must really hate Mike Shannahan and John Gurden. And although Larry Coyer sounds like a perfect match for the Colts with their elite pass rush and some what stacked roster @ the DE position, I think KingRichard makes a good point in saying he could be another Ron Meeks. A good but not great DC (even though he could have a good shot at getting the Colts D in the NFL’s top 10). I think if this guy did coach the Colts, their run D could continue to struggle against the run and only be solid. Since when Coyer coached at Denver all he could do to fix their pass rush was make it solid. So I still like the Idea of promoting Allan Williams to DC and hiring Herm Edwards as a DB’s coach if he is fired from KC. But I’d still say this Larry Coyer guy is the next best idea for the Colts new DC, because it would be nice to see Coyer turn Antonio Johnson and Daniel Morh into solid run stuffing tackles who can still rush the QB. + all the good NFL teams like the Ravens, Pats, & Giants usually try to promote their current staff before promoting others to high profile coaching positions like DC. And again I like the idea of having Herm as the Colts D-Backs coach since he has never been a Coordinator and proven himself worthy of being a good DB’s coach with the Chiefs when he was coaching with Dungy under Marty Shotinhimer and Buccs when he as under Tony Dungy.
by PatsR18*andDONEwithoutCHEATING on Jan 21, 2009 11:34 PM EST reply actions
The Writer of the article
I can tell the person who wrote this article really knows what their talking about. Considering the fact that recently Mike Shannahan was offered interviews galore by about all the NFL teams aside from the Colts and Sea Hawks in need of a new head coach and never hired. And John Gruden hasn’t even been considered by a single team. So unless Gurden decides to go back to the Raiders and coach (don’t bet on it), I think the person who wrote this article has been right all along in saying Mike Shannahan and John Gruden are to highly over paid coaches who should and will be sitting at home with out a job when the 2009 NFL season starts.
by PatsR18*andDONEwithoutCHEATING on Jan 21, 2009 11:40 PM EST reply actions
Seattle
Oh yeah, Seattle that’s another good team that promotes their coaches like the Pats, Ravens, and Giants.
by PatsR18*andDONEwithoutCHEATING on Jan 21, 2009 11:41 PM EST reply actions
Manning
It’s a shame this guy only thinks the Colts are worth anything. Also a shame that he doesn’t see Manning put the blame on his team mates for their losses either. What a shame. But then…all colts are well equipped with blinders so maintain tunnel vision.
I don't even know who you're trying to insult
It’s a shame that Manning is the only guy that thinks the Colts are worth anything? And it’s a shame that Manning doesn’t see Manning put the blame on his team mates? What? Or it’s a shame that Coyer would want to go to a perennial playoff team and didn’t go stay or go back to a team that just fired their HC? I’m lost.
You're Right!
Manning has taken the blame for every bad pass he’s ever thrown and for every loss…he never points at his receivers and argues with them for his mistake.
Whoa…my nose just grew.
I still don't understand why it is so difficult
for people to understand the concept of a TEAM sport. really.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jan 23, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Shannahan and Gruden
Oh…and Shannahan has openly admitted that he doesn’t want to coach this year…seeing as how he has a multi million dollar house that he’s building in Denver…and he runs and own a steak house. By the way, the Jets offered a job to Shanny…but like I said, Shanny not interested in coaching this season. Oh yeah, and about Gruden, all jobs were practically filled by the time he was fired…since that’s the case…makes sense no one hires him. Weird huh…
Good one...
Yeah…that could be it…
Or
It could be that Shanny actually did get a job offer from the Jets.
But
You obviously did your research. So we’ll go with what you said…
I hear he's going to KC.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jan 23, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yep..
Gruden and Shanny were two boneheaded coaches who never took any responsibility for their team’s failures. This is different from say Tony Dungy who…..never takes any responsibility for the 34 trillion 1 and done playoff results he has had.
The bias is amusing to me. Dungy is perfect and never to blame for anything but every other coach whose team falters is to blame. Gotcha. Oh wait I forgot…every time a Dungy team has failed in the playoffs it was because of injuries and these other coaches are coaching a pro bowl roster so losing is just them not knowing anything about football. My bad.
I just fail to see how anyone can be that biased and think they are being logical rather than a homeristic idiot.
Dungy is one of the most overrated coaches in history to go with your belief of Shanny and Gruden. You take Manning and that passing game away and the Colts would have blown ass during his time there.
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