What "tweaks" will Coyer bring to our Colts' Tampa-2
by BigBlueShoe on Jan 22, 2009 11:24 AM EST
in Analysis
86 comments
So, Larry Coyer is likely Indy's new defensive coordinator. While I always appreciate praise from you folks, I didn't really pick Coyer as the DC. I said he was a possibility. I've always liked Coyer, and I thought he got a raw deal in Denver courtesy of Mike Shanahan (Side note: Looks like Shanny has defected and is joining Scott Pioli in KC).Coyer goes way back with Jim Caldwell. They were on the coaching staff at Iowa together back in 1977. Caldwell also played DB for Coyer at Iowa when Coyer was Iowa's defensive coordinator (Caldwell played defense in college, and his first years coaching were on the defensive side of the ball).
So, in many ways, Coyer is to Caldwell what Tom Moore is to Tony Dungy.
With Coyer here, Caldwell is now able to begin putting his stamp on things. Remember what was said last week [emphasis mine]?
Dungy said the plan that named Caldwell as the heir to the job made it easier for him to think things through and make the right decision. But he promised that Caldwell was not going to be a clone. He expects Caldwell to tweak things and put his own stamp on the Colts moving forward.
So, what are these "tweaks?"
First and foremost, any talk of switching to a new defensive scheme is utter silliness. I know some think the 3-4 is better. These "some" are wrong, and don't have a lick of proof to back up their claim. Yes, I know two 3-4 teams are in the Super Bowl this year. Great! I'm happy for them. Two years ago, two Tampa-2 defenses were in the Super Bowl. Last year, a 4-3 blitz defense won the Super Bowl.
No one scheme is better. It is all about coaching and personnel.
Sometimes, the personnel makes the defense. Coyer ran a version of the Tampa-2 in Denver from 2003-2006. In many ways, it was a hybrid between the Tampa-2 and the 4-3 blitz (made famous in Philly under former Colts DC Jim Johnson). The best write-up I have found on the system Coyer ran is provided by a traitor... er, excuse me, a Bronco fan living and working in Indiana. His name is hoosierteacher, and he writes a great series of articles at Mile High Report called MHR Football University:
The Show Blitz system (spoken as if one is saying, "the team is showing blitz") is a fun system to watch for fans. In a nutshell, the LBs and safeties creep up to the line of scrimmage on many downs and "show" a blitz is coming. At the snap, most of the players either bring an overwhelming blitz, or drop back. In most applications the players go back into zone, but in the Coyers system the players dropped back into man coverage. They staggered their distance from the line of scrimmage to allow lateral movement to cover their principles (targets, assignments), and then went after them. One cute tactic was to stagger only for non blitz plays early in the game, then to eventually stagger on a play that was blitz, which confused the offenses.
It's an interesting concept for a system, but as you can see it is very similar to the 4-3 blitz. While hoosierteacher doesn't say this, in my opinion this system was born because Denver's front four simply were not that good. Recall the 2003 playoff game between Indy and Denver. Tony Dungy moved Jeff Saturday from center to guard. He went one-on-one with Denver's best lineman (Trevor Pryce) and completely and utterly stoned him. The result was Peyton Manning setting NFL playoff records in that game, and blowing the Broncos out by halftime
So, in many ways, I think this system was born out of necessity than just simple scheming. As hoosierteacher says, the system (and the coach) had several flaws:
Once teams saw through this, it lost some effectiveness. Coyer (as great of a coordinator as he is) also failed to adjust his system, both tactically (in game) and strategically (over the course of a season).
Adjusting the system is difficult when your front four are crap. Basically, in order for Denver to generate a pass rush, they had to blitz their linebackers. No blitz, no rush. No rush, you lose. That simple. When you are limited in this way, in-game adjustments are nearly impossible. I'm not making an excuse for Coyer here. I'm just saying that when Courtney friggin Brown is your best DE, you are pretty limited in what you can do adjustment-wise.
So, how does this apply to the Colts? Basically, if you look at the strengths of the "Show Blitz" system, we can expect our linebackers to blitz more in 2009:
Advantages of the system include:
- Hard to scheme against. Everything the defense does (whether in run or pass) presents the offense with choices that can result in a minor gain or a major disruption.
- Tires the OL. Like the Zone Blitz systems, this system keeps OLmen guessing and taking a lot of hits.
- Present multiple chances for turnovers. INTs are common, since the QB faces a lot of pressure.
Now, one of the big weaknesses of Coyer's system in Denver is it was vulnerable to the big play. Look no further than Brandon Stokley streaking down the RCA Dome turf in 2004 as an example. Coyer is not going to totally implement his system here. Instead, he will take elements of it and employ them in our Tampa-2. With defensive ends like Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, and the up-and-coming Marcus Howard, Coyer has more options.
- He could "show blitz" but drop back into normal Tampa-2
- He could blitz Bob Sanders, drop into Cover-3
- He could blitz his outside linebackers, put Bethea in Cover-3, and drop Brackett and Bob in zone.
The key here is to provide more packages that can possibly fool people, or make them guess, and use our linebackers more to blitz the run or pass. The run blitzing might be the biggest change. If Indy gets their opponent into 3rd and long, they pin their ears back, play Tampa-2, and come after the QB with reckless abandonment with their front four.
Personally, I'm not big on trying to "fool" people with a scheme-heavy defense. Lineup and beat the opponent with technique. Very rarely do you really "fool" anyone in this league. But, with Coyer, he has a strong knowledge of how to run a one gap defense, and he certainly knows the Colts Tampa-2 style. He has a strong relationship with Caldwell, and he is a respected assistant.
We shall see the final results in a few months, but so far this looks like a strong hire.
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Very nice summary!!
To you fellas that are more in the know…do you think having Coyer as the DC will change priorities in the draft? From what I read it still all starts up front…so a run stuffing, athletic DT would still be the major need right? What about more blitzing style linebackers? Could this mean a move for Howard to LB on certain plays? I’m just thinking out loud here…don’t think I am crazy!! What do you guys think?
by TRDean on Jan 22, 2009 11:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
It’s funny that you mention blitzing linebackers because last year in the draft most people were somewhat shocked that Polian drafted Wheeler, who just so happened to be a blitzing linebacker.
It’s always fun to look to the past and see signs that make sense now.
Regardless of the system, your defensive line must be solid. Trying to go around it leaves you vulnerable to everything the Colts have shown they are vulnerable to. So yes, I’ve said it ever since the season ended, I really do think the Colts are serious about shoring up the d-line and will more than likely get a stud DT in the draft.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
by KingRichard on Jan 22, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I had the same exact thought
Caldwell must have had this change in mind last season when they took Wheeler.
I hope he (Wheeler) learned enough of the coverage game to not make him a vulnerability when in coverage. That said, if he can get to the QB consistently when blitzing, it won’t make much of a difference. He’ll just start blitzing all the time.
by mgrex03 on Jan 22, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure I remember them saying that they let Caldwell into draft discussions last year
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Jan 22, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wheeler might be the new mold for Colts LBs
if Coyer want to bring the blitz with any kind of regularity and success, blitzing ability would actually become a factor in which LBs the Colts like.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Jan 22, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually think
The majority of our LBs fit this. Remember when I said Keiaho was our second best coverage guy behind Brackett? And then you pointed out he wasn’t that great in coverage and was a much better run stuffer/blitzer? I never disagreed with you. And Session’s known as our hard hitter, he’d probably do better in a blitzing role. Brackett’s the only question mark. I’m not sure we resign him, and even if we do, he’s awesome in a T2 system, but he’s getting older, and I’m not sure how well he’d do in a blitz system. I already said we should take a DT in the first if Jerry or Raji are there, but if we’re starting to actually (gasp) think of using LBs for blitzing, it opens up a ton of options and doesn’t make us sitting there with our heads in our hands if we miss one of them. Sintim might fall to us, Cushing will most likely be there, and I’ve been hearing good things about Matthews and McKenzie. After the things that are coming about Cushing, if we can’t get Jerry or Raji, he’s sounding like “THE” guy. As in the “Oh my God, Cushing just detroyed that guy.” leader type LB that we’ve been missing.
Richard, you might want to skip this part, your boy Rashad is involved.
"The hit of the day goes to Brian Cushing, as he completely lit up Liberty tailback Rashad Jennings. Cushing was very solid all day long when I had my eyes on him, and I’m starting to think he might be able to play weakside in the pros because of his great range. "
“Another "You got JACKED UP” moment was when USC linebacker Brian Cushing debacled Zona receiver Mike Thomas on a slant route. It was really fun to watch as Cushing laid his shoulder into him, stayed up on his feet, and stared down Thomas when he was on the ground, Ali style. Corvey Irvin and Robert Ayers were really fired up on that play, slapping Cushing on his helmet. "
When I read that second one I was like…“That’s who we need.”
I sent out an e-mail this morning to Matt McGuire, (the dude from WalterFootball), asking about Hood and Beckwith. From what I read, after the dropoff in ILB after the first, he was looking like he’d go around the 3rd. Glad he got back to me, first person information is alot better. Anyway, this is what he had to say about Hood/Beckwith;
"I see a lot of analysts having Beckwith in their top 5 ILBs, and quite frankly, I don’t see it. On film he isn’t very involved. I don’t see much range when he drops back into zone coverage. He doesn’t make a lot of big hits. He struggles occasionally when taking on blockers. He shows great tackling technique and he has some burst when he reads and reacts. But I’m not buying it. I don’t think he is going to come off the board until the 5th round.
Evander Hood is your prototypical three technqiue, but I am not sure what Indy’s defensive philosophy is now with Dungy gone in terms of what they look for. He is a player and he shows a great ability to dip his shoulder and blow by guards. On film, he has a big motor and grades out extremely well on what I call “chase tackles” when he runs to the sideline to make a tackle displaying mobility. Occasionally he lacks toughness and he struggles against bigger linemen. Hood is likely to come off the board in the 2nd round and someone might love him enough to take a gamble in the late first."
And let me just say, I was the one sharpening my pitchfork and soaking the torches. And I really dig this hire. We’re possibly one of teams with the most potential in the pass rush but we dont’ do it. And the blitz not only messes with the offense, at least now they don’t know if they can run through that gap without a face full of LB. I’d rather try to preserve Bob’s career a little and not continue to use him everygame as our SS that’s really a LB. He can’t take it and remain around for much longer.
by monstersbox on Jan 22, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see Cushing as a Colt
He started as a DE and is quite a bit bigger than any of our LBs. He’s training with Joe DeFranco so I hesitate to say he’s slow, but I don’t know that he can be quick enough to play in this D. (You can look up his shuttle run and 10yd dash training from last week on youtube)
There are also other non-football reasons I would not want to see him as a Colt.
by willyduer on Jan 22, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
McShay was raving about Cushing in his senior bowl practice breakdown
the one bad thing he had to say about Cushing was about him in zone coverage. Indy might be running the one system he doesn’t fit into.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Jan 22, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said yesterday
USC’s track record in the NFL is not good at all. A good number of them are work ethic issues.
Call me Missouri, but they’ll have to show me first before I get on board with any Trojan.
by mgrex03 on Jan 22, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
Absolutely right, Missouri. :D
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jan 22, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure I’d rule out an entire school, but it is interesting to note that. They seem to have the most talent but perhaps also coast on that talent.
Cushing’s teammate, Maualuga, strikes me as the better player anyway. But I guess he’s kind of a top 10 guy in many circles.
by willyduer on Jan 22, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Since 2004
35 USC players have been drafted (not a small sample).
Only 2 have become pretty good players. A third would be Reggie Bush, but he hasn’t lived up to a #2 pick.
The 2? Lofa Tatupu and Steve Smith (NYG). Find me another. That’s why I will continue to say we should stay away from USC players.
by mgrex03 on Jan 22, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I said the first time
that Sam Baker was pretty good this year.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Jan 22, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, include him too
That’s still only 10% over the past 5 drafts. I’ll pass, until a couple others show their worth in the NFL.
by mgrex03 on Jan 22, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And
So Polomalu’s isn’t that great eh?
Matt Cassel? (I think he’s no good, but other people don’t)
Ellis could have a great career
Fargas was better than McFadden this year
Willie McGinest
Carson Palmer
Steve Smith (New York one) could have a good career
FatDale
Frank Gifford
Ron Mix
O.J. Simpson
Ronnie Lott
Lynn Swann
Marcus Allen
by monstersbox on Jan 22, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I said since 2004
Which is when Pete Carroll’s recruits started getting drafted.
Polamalu, Fargas, and Palmer played for Carroll, but were not recruited by him.
Cassel had 1 year in a very good organization. He also didn’t play at USC, even though he was there.
Ellis wasn’t very impressive this past season. Time will tell if he ends up a good player, but I won’t hold my breath. LenDale is bad and you know it.
Steve Smith was one of my 2 guys mentioned. He’s a good player. The same can’t be said about his two WR teammates Dwayne Jarrett and Mike Williams.
Everyone else is old and not relevant to the 2009 draft.
by mgrex03 on Jan 22, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't see 2004
Maybe they were leaving before they were ready? Kind of like he was saying Sanchez needed more reps before he went to the NFL, made a bad decision by going too early?
That’s a little skewed. Ohio State’s had 37 since 2004 and their guys that have been good? Maybe Michael Jenkins? I don’t think I’d say he’s a first rounder like he was. Santonio Holmes, yep, Gonzalez and Ginn are on the fringe. But who have been busts?
Gholston, Pitcock (ouch), Antonio Pittman, Roy Hall hasn’t shown anything yet, Troy Smith, A.J. Hawk, Maurice Clarett….you can say that about tons of teams.
Miami’s had 31 and they’ve had their share. FSU, their best dudes are Cromartie who had a crap year, and a 3rd down back in Leon Washington. We’ve had the privledge of having good old Craphonso Thorpe and Buster Davis warming our benches though after they were released from their drafted teams.
The team that’s even remotely close to 30 that’s had the “best” players since 2004 is probably LSU. And the jury’s still out on some of their guys. Russell, Landry, Bowe, Addai, Webster, Clayton, Henderson.
But it’s way too early to say someone from 2004 sucks, or that they consistently produce failures at the NFL level when most of the other schools aren’t doing much better. I mean Marvin didn’t break 1000 yards his first three years until Peyton showed up. Wayne was even worse. So who knows? Maybe Leinart will come out, have a 90 QB rating and win 2 Super Bowls. I mean, he’s got his team in place.
by monstersbox on Jan 22, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For a team consistently in the top 5
And arguably the most talented team year in and year out, a 10% rate is not good.
Here’s Ohio State for you since 2004:
2004 they had 3 1st rounders: Will Smith, Chris Gamble, and Michael Jenkins, all decent NFL players.
2005: Only 3 drafted, highest Mike Nugent, who has a 81.5% FG Pct. Not bad.
2006: I’d say Hawk, Whitner, Holmes, and Mangold are decent NFL players. Carpenter was a bust.
2007: Ginn has surprised me, as he’s been pretty good. And I really like Gonzalez
2008: Gholston wasn’t very good this year. Time will tell on him as well.
Nine, maybe 10 decent guys since 2004, roughly 25%. I’d say that’s not bad, as many, many players don’t make it, even after being drafted. Especially when they are all high picks. Of those first rounders, only 2 ended up not working out. That’s 10/12. That’s fantastic.
And not that it matters too much, but the last time the Colts drafted someone from USC? 1994.
by mgrex03 on Jan 22, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's Iowa's first day picks since 2004
2004:
Robert Gallery, epic bust, but he is a good guard
Nate Kaeding, most accurate kicker in the league
Bob Sanders, awesome
2005:
Jonathan Babineaux, started all 16 games for the Falcons
Matt Roth, moved from DE to OLB by the new regime, 14 starts, 5 sacks, 2 FF this year
2006:
Abdul Hodge, slowly washing out of the league
Chad Greenway, missed whole rookie season injured, started all 32 games since
2007:
Marshall Yanda, started as a rookie, hurt early this year
2008:
Charles Godfrey, started all 16 games for the Panthers D
So that’s 1 first day pick that isn’t a starter now and only 2 that haven’t lived up to their draft status
GO HAWKS
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Jan 22, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
one thing about 2 of the OSU busts on your list
Carpenter and Gholston sure aren’t looking good, but I think part of the reason is the scheme. Carpenter was a good LB at OSU, but he went to a 3-4 at Dallas and I’m not sure he was ever able to adjust to that. Thats not an excuse and shows that he’s not world class, but some players are just better in a 4-3 as opposed to a 3-4 and vice versa.
Gholston, however, I never thought should be a top 10 pick. He flat out disappeared in some key games for the bucks. He was great when he was great, but gosh, when he was bad it left a vacuum on the line. He made his name abusing Jake Long, but did little in the BCS games. He’s out of position, too, at OLB, but you would think a pure pass rusher like Gholston would have been able to BE ACTIVE for the whole year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmGdAPjcgaM&eurl=http://www.only17points.com/&feature=player_embedded
by Nideak on Jan 22, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great points...
I think it is unfair to lay that on USC. My guess is that they will have some studs in the NFL from this draft. Also, there are too many caviats to this argument. Cassel had a great year, who cares about the organization, and he was a USC QB, who cares if he didn’t start? Let me ask this…mgrex: if Cushing or Maualuga were available when the Colts pick you would not want them because they are from USC? Serious?
by TRDean on Jan 23, 2009 6:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If there are other options available, nope
It is a virtual lock there will be somebody else available that can help the Colts more so than those two guys.
I’m open to potentially taking Cushing, but only if nobody else is available. I want no part of Rey “I own the Police” Maualuga.
You think I’m the only one thinking this way? Last year, the Patriots had the #7 pick, and wanted a LB. There were 2 available to them: Keith Rivers (USC) and Jerod Mayo (TEN). Rivers was rated higher, but they traded back to 10, and let the Bengals take the higher rated player. Guess who won Rookie of the Year?
And this applies more to high draft picks, not necessarily anything from the 2nd day, as that is a crapshoot all in itself. When a highly drafted USC player actually lives up to his billing, then I’ll think about it. The results don’t lie.
by mgrex03 on Jan 23, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
From what I’ve read the Pats are very high on Cushing.
by TRDean on Jan 23, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That has nothing to do with it
Other than the fact that maybe they considered Mayo a better fit and he was close enough or better in their eyes to drop down and improve their position in another round. Take for example this year. If we had the 10th pick and say, Green Bay or someone who wanted a DT was at 13th, with two teams in between that absolutely did not need a DT, and the choice was between Jerry or Raji, the Colts might decide not to take Raji even though he’s rated higher because Jerry would fit our system better. And then maybe we get another 4th-7th round selection, or they might’ve had the 2nd pick ni the second round from a trade earlier and we swap spots.
I really don’t think you’re thinking about USC objectively.
by monstersbox on Jan 23, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This discussion about USC...
brings up an interesting idea. As a follower of football through the years there are times when I don’t look objectively at players from certain schools. For example, recently Penn State has had some great linebackers who have been drafted fairly high. These guys have done nothing to my knowledge in the NFL. In my mind now (and this is totally irrational) I don’t trust linebackers from Penn State. This is completely unfair. I too agree that I don’t think you are looking at USC objectively. However, that being said, I too go through the same things with different universities. Once again…I would love to pick up Clay Mathiews in the second!!
by TRDean on Jan 23, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Since 1990
The only PSU LB that has turned out well in the NFL is Lavar Arrington.
13 drafted in that time (3 in the past 2 seasons). Why is it unfair to think PSU LBs will not turn out well in the NFL? Over the past 20 years, only 1 has turned out to be good (with 3 maybes recently drafted).
by mgrex03 on Jan 23, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Because..
A player comign out now is not one that has come out in the past. That is nothing more than judging current players based on what guys did before them. Just because a school produces great LBs (for instance) does not mean that the next one drafted will be great…and vice versa. It is absolutely unfair to say how someone will perform based completely on how previous players have done at their school.
by TRDean on Jan 23, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
I tried to make the point that I understand where you are coming from…but the difference is that I at least realize that my thoughts are irrational. You are not being unbiased in your thoughts.
by TRDean on Jan 23, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What am I being biased about?
I’m using facts to back up my argument. Is there another LB from PSU that has been a good pro since 1990? Please prove me wrong.
There is nothing irrational about it. I want the best players playing for the Colts. Nothing more, nothing less. I’m going to use all the information available to me (and I know Polian and co. does the same) to try to find those players.
There are lots of things you can learn from the school they attended. Some schools may stress fundamentals more. Some may be more disciplined. Some may have coaches who have been in the NFL before, so they know how to prepare them for the NFL. And there’s more you can learn as well.
I’d say the same thing about Notre Dame if it were true. I keep my teams separate as best I can. I’m also no fan of Ohio State, but Tressel runs a great program, and the high draft picks from there have been successful 10 out of 12 times since 2004. All other things being equal, I’d be more comfortable taking a guy high in the draft from OSU than a lot of other schools.
by mgrex03 on Jan 23, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Poluzny is doing well
missed 13 games with a major injury last year, but was a 16 game starter this year.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Jan 23, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You just threw schools out earlier
Hoping to disprove me. I debunked OSU quite easily, as they have done quite well in the NFL.
You absolutely cannot miss on 1st or 2nd round picks. Here’s a list of USC players taken in the 1st or 2nd rounds since 2004, when Carroll’s recruited players started entering the league:
2004:
Kenechi Udeze – DE (20) – 29 tackles/year, 3 sacks per year. Out all of 2008, and most of 2005. Doesn’t do it for me.
Jacob Rogers – T (52) - Played in 2 games in his career.
Keary Colbert – WR (62) - Averaged 24 catches/year, 23 yds/game. Played on 3 different teams in 2008, with only 12 catches. Not for me.
2005:
Mike Williams – WR (10) – 44 career catches. He made Charles Rogers look like a decent pick for the Lions.
Mike Patterson – DT (31) – Solid player, liked by my Eagles buddy.
Shaun Cody – DE (37) – Been with the Lions his entire career, and only started 11 of his 43 games with them. Only 1.5 sacks as a DE.
Lofa Tatupu – LB (45) - Very good player, and have stated as much.
2006:
Reggie Bush – RB (2) – Good player, probably not good enough for the #2 pick overall. Career 3.7 YPC. I said it was a maybe.
Matt Leinart – QB (10) – Got benched midway through his second season. Team is in Super Bowl with him on the bench. I don’t want him as my QB, but you may.
Winston Justice – T (39) – Has started 1 game in 3 years, only playing in 12 games. Big bust.
Deuce Lutui – G (41) – Started all 16 games for the Cardinals this season, and 15 last. Solid player.
LenDale White – RB (45) – I’ll let Titan fans give their opinion on him.
2007:
Dwayne Jarrett – WR (45) – 16 career catches in 2 seasons, only 1 start.
Steve Smith – WR (51) - Solid player, key part to NYG winning Super Bowl last season.
Ryan Kalil – C (59) – Started 12 games in 2008, 3 in 2007. We’ll say he’s a decent player.
2008:
I’ll hold off judgement on these guys after their rookie year, but the only player (of 7) who looked good was Sam Baker.
So between 2004 and 2007, there were 15 USC players taken in the first 2 rounds. Only 5 of them are decent NFL players. What am I not thinking objectively about?
Looking at this season then, as it looks like their 3 LBs will all go in the first 2 rounds, 1 of them will turn out to be a decent player. You’d be willing to take those odds?
by mgrex03 on Jan 23, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't debunk it quite easily
I just didn’t choose to argue with you because you’re extremely biased towards thinking USC players are trash. I replied to a post that had absolutely nothing to do with the players that were already in the NFL. The whole premise of my response was that you weren’t in the Patriots draft discussions, or if you were, tell me if you heard “Nah, we don’t want to draft him because he’s from USC.” If that was the case, they only moved down 3 spots and no analyst would say “OMG! They totally screwed themselves by taking one LB 3 spots higher than the one they should’ve drafted!” That’s a little naive. If you want to get it to this, inferring that I don’t back my points up, I’m game.
First off, let’s look at the complete history of what transpired leading up to the Patriots trading down so they could, in your opinion “Last year, the Patriots had the #7 pick, and wanted a LB. There were 2 available to them: Keith Rivers (USC) and Jerod Mayo (TEN). Rivers was rated higher, but they traded back to 10, and let the Bengals take the higher rated player.”
But, this is actually what happened:
1) San Francisco 49ers to New England Patriots
The 49ers dealt their 2008 first-round selection to the Patriots, as well as the 110th overall pick in April (John Bowie) for the 28th choice in the 2007 Draft (Joe Staley).
2) Oakland Raiders to New England Patriots
The Raiders dealt their 2008 third-round selection to the Patriots, as well as the 211th overall pick (Oscar Lua) in April for the 91st choice in the 2007 Draft (Mario Henderson).
3) Patriots to Saints. New England traded their first- and fifth-round selections (7th and 164th overall) to New Orleans for New Orleans’ first- and third-round selections (10th and 78th).
Going into the draft, the common consensus was:
“10. New Orleans Saints – Mike Jenkins, CB, USF
The Saints are arguably the most likely team to trade up, since they need a defensive tackle and would be unlikely to land either Dorsey or Ellis if they sit at this #10 spot.”
"One other scenario – if Ellis falls out of the top five, the Saints could trade up to No. 8. I don’t see them moving all the way up to No. 2 for Glenn Dorsey. "
“The New Orleans Saints trade their 1st (10) and 3rd round picks to the Baltimore Ravens for their 1st (8) and 5th round picks. Considering the situation, this trade makes perfect sense to me. In my opinion, the Saints will pick one of two defensive positions; either linebacker or tackle. They recently signed Randall Gay; so cornerback, once a big need, is out of the picture. From what I’ve read, outside of Keith Rivers, there is no linebacker worthy of a top twenty pick. The same can be said about a defensive tackle, if both Glenn Dorsey and Sedrick Ellis are unavailable. After the Atlanta Falcons select Dorsey with the 3rd overall pick and the New England Patriots select Keith Rivers with the 7th overall pick, I don’t see why the Saints wouldn’t jump over the Bengals (who are also likely targeting a linebacker or defensive tackle) to fix their biggest need.”
The Super Bowl losing team, normally the 31st pick in the draft, ended up with the 10th, 62nd, 78th, 94th, 129th, 153rd, and 197th overall picks. The team that had their first round draft pick stripped ended up with a 1,2,3,3,4,5,6 round draft order. The Colts, 3 spots higher than the Patriots, ended up with the 59th, 93rd, 127th, 161st, 196th, 201st, 202nd, 205th, and 236th pick. Their draft by rounds was 2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,7.
Fact : The Saints desperately wanted Ellis; they gave up 10th overall and.
Fact : The Patriots got lucky pulling the draft with the 49ers in 2007. Since they were stripped of their first round pick because of Spygate, they essentially moved up 22 spots in the draft. And since the value of Ellis was so high, they dropped from 7th to 10th in the draft, but worked it so they’d have 2 picks in the 3rd round. Which allowed them to draft 2 LBs to replace an aging core instead of just 1.
So the Patriots from 1 dude that when he played was great and “downgraded” to -
Mayo – “In a weak linebacker class, Jerod Mayo’s eye opening post season workouts (NFL Scouting Combine and Pro Day ) has rocketed his value up from a possible 2nd round pick to a likely 1st round pick. He ran a sizzling 4.54 forty at the combine and at Tennessee’s Pro Day on March 19th, Mayo measured in at 6’ 1” 3/8, 237 pounds, had a 40 ½-inch vertical jump, did 22 reps in the bench press and looked very quick and athletic in the positional drills." – http://www.nfldraftdog.com/2008_nfl_draft/Jerod%20Mayo.htm
Crable – “Overall: Crable stands out as one of the top prospects for the SAM position at the NFL level. He also fits the 3-4 scheme as an OLB, where he would be an ideal fit next to a pure pass rusher. He is a terrific athlete with a good frame, and he had a very productive season in 2007 for Michigan, with an obscene 28.5 tackles for a loss. His versatility and high upside make him a very attractive prospect for a number of teams…”
Summary? The trade had absolutely nothing to do with Rivers being from USC. It was a brilliant move on the part of the Patriots to address two positions they needed. If the Colts had managed to do something like this, it’d be awesome.
And don’t think I’m ducking you on your “schooling” of me on OSU. And USC overall. I’ll get to that tonight.
by monstersbox on Jan 23, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know it was a great move by the Patriots
That’s why I brought it up. They know what they are doing on draft day. The Colts have done the same thing in the recent past, with Bob Sanders. They traded down twice before they drafted Sanders.
By the way, I never meant to say you don’t back up your claims. More than anyone else here you do that. I apologize if it came off that way, it definitely was not intentional.
And Rivers may end up being a good pro. He’s only played 6 games, and as shake said, he was playing well before getting lit up by Ward, ending his season.
To think GMs don’t look at the exact thing we are now is naive. They use every bit of information available to them.
you’re extremely biased towards thinking USC players are trash
I think I’ve made it quite clear, on every occasion, that some players from USC are pretty good players. I even found some more good players after doing a little more research, and said as much.
If the Colts were choosing between two players, who come out exactly the same on their draft board, I’d feel more confident in the guy coming from another school than a guy from USC.
by mgrex03 on Jan 23, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, that I can agree with
I agree, USC makes alot of players look better than they really are. That’s what happens with all the media coverage and when everyone is “pretty good”. “Pretty good” doesn’t mean they’re “NFL good”. And I actually HATE USC. And I also don’t feel like continuing this. But my only point was, if a USC player was the best one left, and then there’s a HUGE dropoff after, I’d be fine with it. Sintim/Cushing (aside from Curry) are basically the two best OLBs. Well, I know that Larry English is doing well, but those two are still the best. Sintim’s coverage isn’t as good as Cushings (not saying much). But I actually would rather try to get Jasper Brinkley in the 3rd or 4th, get him to lose about 10 lbs, and try out Sam. Dude’s only knock was his knee, but I think that guy showed enough talent to make a 3rd round pick (which are risky anyway) worth the risk. Funny thing, he’d actually be one of the biggest guys on D.
by monstersbox on Jan 23, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rivers was doing very well until Hines Ward broke his jaw
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Jan 23, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll stay away from 2008 picks for now
And I forgot that’s what ended his season. That doesn’t make you injury prone.
by mgrex03 on Jan 23, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Those were off the top of my head
There’s actually alot more than I thought. I just did a wiki search. But here’s an interesting factoid – “USC has had more 1st Round NFL Draft picks (67) than any other team. 162 Trojans have been selected to the NFL Pro Bowl, a Trojan has played in all but two Super Bowls.”
by monstersbox on Jan 22, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh also
While I don’t put any stock into the crap McShay, Kiper, et al post about their ever-changing Mock Drafts, most of what I have read shows Cushing as going long before we pick anyway.
Another thing is that I think you’re right to say that all our LBs could work with this. It’s not as if blitzing is some unusual skill for a LB. Wheeler was known as a blitzer simply because he was asked to do it more. Any fast and aggressive LB can blitz. We just don’t think of our LBs as that because they so rarely do it.
That said, I’m a big fan of Wheeler and would like to see more of him next year.
by willyduer on Jan 22, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Long before we pick?
What? I don’t know what you’ve been reading, unless everyone in the 1st round takes a LB, then I’d be even happier. For Cushing to go before our pick that means that means Curry and Sintim will be gone. Tell me which teams need an OLB? I’ll give you GB since they’re going to a 3-4, maybe the Bills, maybe Cleveland, maybe the Jags, maybe the ‘skins. So pretty much, generally speaking, most of the teams that need or could use a DT would probably need or could use a OLB. And uh, yeah, I’d be just fine with Cushing being taken before us if that means we can get Jerry. And the teams that have a decent DT and only need a OLB probably need an ILB too. And you think someone’s like Denver is just going to take or NO is going to take an OLB when they have Maualuga and Laurinaitis there? Mike’s the hardest LB position to fill.
And I actually think that “Any fast and aggressive LB can blitz.” is completely wrong. So all you goto do to be a good DT is be fat? We could get those guys from the stands. If that were the case, we’d have some of the top blitzing LBs in the game, and we don’t. Or the most important thing for a LB would just be speed. When teams start having HoF blitz LBs that are drafted as 185 lb 4.2 second sprinters that are pissed off, I’ll agree with that. And I don’t think we can do it with our LBs because when we have done it, the other team is normally like “Woah, they’re blitzing? With those guys? Bwahahaha.” and then they throw a TD pass on an DB that looks like he doesn’t know where he is.
This is what happens when super fast LBs blitz a team with a crap O-line :
by monstersbox on Jan 22, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh, doesn’t mean anything really. People get lit up all the time. Jennings is still a stud I tell ya!
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
by KingRichard on Jan 22, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For those interested in a lengthy review of a defense that shows a lot of looks
Check out this in-depth analysis of Cal’s 3-4 system. Yes I realize that the Colts are a Tampa-2 defense, but the analysis shows where the simple confusion has QBs wondering what the heck is going on.
by LovinBlue on Jan 22, 2009 11:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
A few points about this hire and about the style of defense he ran:
1. I’ve always like that style, or the look that type of defense gives an opposing offense. Regardless of whether the Colts blitz much and offenses know this, there will always be the possilibity in the back o people’s minds that “Well they don’t blitz much, but it could come at any time.” And sometimes, that’s just enough to keep a QB, or an offense a bit nervous throughout the game.
2. I really don’t think Coyer is going to implement the man coverage aspect. Mainly because the Colts DBs are catered to play zone and would get torched on a regular basis if they were told to play man.
3. I remember a few years ago when he was running this defense in Denver. I liked how Lynch constantly started motioning towards the line just to plant the idea that he may be coming on a blitz in the brain of the offense. Whether or not he blitz didn’t matter. I think Sanders is going to be able to fit that role pretty well.
4. I’m praying that Coyer doesn’t bring all the bad luck he had with that defense in the playoffs. They were a great regular season defense, but come playoff time, teams that could exploit different parts of that defense just steamrolled them. What the Colts did to them in the 2003 and 2004 playoffs was just disgusting. And then of course Steelers dominating them the year after that.
Anyways, the more I read up on this guy and his schemes, the more I like this hire. He’ll bring in that one wrinkle that could really but the Colts defense over the hump, solidifying them as a “great” defense, not just a good one.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
by KingRichard on Jan 22, 2009 12:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Apparently I need to start proof-reading my posts more often.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
by KingRichard on Jan 22, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like this idea
Like BBS, I agree that I don’t like the idea of trying to get by on confusion because ultimately people stop getting confused and then you’re fucked. So I wouldn’t want to go too far with this idea. But the thought of changing things up a bit and keeping offenses more off guard is appealing. The most frustrating thing about the D sometimes is it just seems like the offense knows what to do and the only question is whether or not they can enforce it. Especially considering us having Bobzilla, it seems like the threat of him coming in more than he already does could really help us out. Chances are how they draft may gave us a clue into what they’re going to do…
by psvirsky on Jan 22, 2009 12:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
So...
Following a nice D-lineman I really think LB should be a need. Of the options available in the 2 round on who do you guys think are good prospects? I don’t have the ability to see the senior bowl, and watch many college games so I appreciate your comments.
by TRDean on Jan 22, 2009 12:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The word may not be official yet
Well, BigBigBlue Shoe. Aside from the fact that you didn’t mention anything about Coyer fixing the Colts run D, this isn’t A bad article. But I dunno if your can say that this Larry Coyer guy is officially the Colts new DC. Since only one source has said he is and I haven’t seen anything on NFL networks or ESPN indicating that he will be the Colts new DC. And if the rumors are true about Herman Edwards being replaced be Mike “Shanny” Shanahan in Kansas City, then I wouldn’t put the Colts still either going after Herman Edwards as their new DC or promoting Allan Williams to DC and Herm to D-Backs coach out of the question. And how does this Coyer dude plan on fixing the Colts run defense. What’s he going to do about the swiss cheese middle of their D-line and LB’s who don’t tackle then their supposed to??? Can someone please for the love of god answer this question.
by PatsR18*andDONEwithoutCHEATING on Jan 22, 2009 12:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It’s pretty simple: draft a DT.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
by KingRichard on Jan 22, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I agree...
It does not look official yet…but should be soon. Anyway, let me get this out of the way. I have a huge man crush on a certain LB out of USC named Clay Mathews. I loved watching both his father and uncle play and it would make me very happy to have him join our beloved Colts!! I just wanted to get my nuthugging out of the way so you guys know where I am coming from!! LOL!!
by TRDean on Jan 22, 2009 12:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting Hire
IF TRUE (and this still isn’t confirmed officially)
Maybe Manning and Coyer can talk about how the Colts absolutely torched the Broncos in the playoffs multiple times during Coyer’s tenure there. I don’t think that’s a selling point. Honestly, right now I don’t like this hire. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong, but I have a bad feeling about it.
by jdb on Jan 22, 2009 1:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well, maybe Manning can point out some of the weak spots of the defense that Coyer doesn’t know about so he can adjust it. That’d be nice.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
by KingRichard on Jan 22, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This sounds like the system Wheeler ran at GT
Jon Tenuta, now Notre Dame’s assistant head coach/linebackers coach, runs a system where he shows blitz almost every play. 5 people usually end up rushing, three play deep, two play where corners would usually play in a Tampa-2 and one covers the middle. Wheeler could become a star playing in Coyer’s system. This one sounds like it could be supereffective if the right personnel is acquired.
Next year is Brackett’s contract year. Could a move to a system that involves more blitzing mean he leaves in free agency? Personally, I think this is a great hire and I can’t think of anyone available who could be better.
by Colts Homer on Jan 22, 2009 4:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
agreed
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
by KingRichard on Jan 22, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like someone said above, I don’t put much stock into it, but caught Mel Kiper’s mock draft on ESPN (first time I’ve been able to watch ESPN in 4 years! I wasn’t missing anything) and both Jerry and Laryngitis were both on the board with the Colts picked (he had the Colts taking Jerry, obviously). Being a buckeye fan, I’ve seen 33 play a lot, and he did fall of this year, but he’s an all around linebacker. He can cover, blitz, and tackle, and he has decent speed for a LB. I think Jerry would be the pick, but I also think that Laryngitis would instantly be the best LB on the roster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmGdAPjcgaM&eurl=http://www.only17points.com/&feature=player_embedded
by Nideak on Jan 22, 2009 4:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Best on the roster eh? That’s a pretty strong statement.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
by KingRichard on Jan 22, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He should've
Gone to the Senior Bowl. That hurts him. Jerry is up there tearing it up, and so are other big name dudes. But Laurinaitis said his coach told him not to go because he couldn’t do anything to improve the consensus on him? That’s straight up BS. Seriously, that’s what he told the dudes from the nfl network on sirius. They were talking to him at the bowl game and that’s what he said to them.
And I dig him, but that’s either egotistical, naive, or shady. It’s one of the three, there’s no way that’s a good idea.
by monstersbox on Jan 22, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well
thats pretty dumb, especially considering his play this year probably hurt his draft stock (probably a top-10 pick if he comes out last year, he just really seemed to get lost at times this year, not sure if it was the decline in the DL or what) and the senior bowl would only have helped get him from the end of the first to more of a 10-15 pick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmGdAPjcgaM&eurl=http://www.only17points.com/&feature=player_embedded
by Nideak on Jan 22, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ugh
after looking over his entire mock, a lot of it doesn’t make sense…
I don’t see Oakland taking a WR when they clearly need OL help (oh wait, nm, guess it makes perfect sense)
I think the Bills have more holes than a TE at #11
I can’t see the Chargers using their #1 pick on a RB when they have Sproles and Tomlinson, especially since he says it will be Moreno who, while bigger than Sproles, is still relatively small.
I can’t see Philly using their #1 on Beanie Wells, not because I don’t think he’s good, but they already have a good backup RB in Buckhalter (who may leave, I know), but Brian Westbrook just signed an extension, he’s one of the best backs in the league, and the perfect compliment to an oft-injured receiving back isn’t an oft-injured big back.
Dunno about the rest, some pretty weird but not totally dumb picks. Mocks are generally stoopid anyhow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmGdAPjcgaM&eurl=http://www.only17points.com/&feature=player_embedded
by Nideak on Jan 22, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with BBS
that you can’t fool anyone in this league. You most certainly can, and the best coordinators are the ones that regularly fool people. See Belicheck, Jim Johnson, Ron Rivera, Rex Ryan. They bring exotic blitzes and funky coverage, and yeah, sometimes it breaks down, but more often than not it works. The reason that the Colts have been so boom-and-bust on defense is that everyone but EVERYONE knew exactly what we would do. Drop 7, bring Freeney and Mathis around the ends. Every play, every time. Maybe Bob would cheat up if he was feeling frisky, but after 07 every team learned to put a blocker on him and he was effectively taken out of the game. Now, maybe we put Wheeler on one side, put Bob in the box on the other, and let the o-line guess about who they should be blocking. That’s how a good defense becomes a great defense: execution, yes, but that split-second of uncertainty that lets Mathis or Freeney slip by their man.
Most of all, we can’t be having Gary Brackett blitzing up the middle. That is simply painful to watch.
by slash196 on Jan 22, 2009 6:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That's why this hire points to
Next year sadly being Brackett’s last year in Indy if Coyer implements his system fully.
by Colts Homer on Jan 22, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ughh
on third and long, pin your ears back and send the front four after the QB…can we please send one linebacker with them…we give up way to many third and longs
by VolsnCards5 on Jan 22, 2009 7:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
From your lips
to the new DC’s ears (has the Coyer story been confirmed?)
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jan 22, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
according to Phil B, the Colts have talked to him about the job but,
Coyer says anything about it will have to come from the Colts and the Colts won’t comment.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Jan 22, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They do that all the time
When a team neither confirms nor denies it just means they’re doing the contract. It happens every single time a new coach comes in to a new team. They announce it, the media asks the dude for a comment, he says he can’t say anything, and then the team “neither confirms nor denies” and then he’s the coach in the next day or two.
But at least he’s on wikipedia already.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Coyer
“Larry Coyer is currently the Defensive Coordinator for the National Football League’s Indianapolis Colts1. Prior to holding this position, he was the Assistant Head Coach for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers2 and Defensive Coordinator for the Denver Broncos3.”
Defensive Coaches
* Defensive Coordinator – Larry Coyer
Granted the citation is the yahoo report, but meh. It’s pretty much settling on a figure and paperwork.
by monstersbox on Jan 22, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wikipedia is always right behind Florio on NFL stories
probably since they have the same journalistic standards.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Jan 22, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt
That was the joke. But generally speaking, the no comment thing is basically saying “yeah, but we don’t want to piss them off before they sign the paper.” Otherwise they’d both just say no.
by monstersbox on Jan 22, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Justin Cohn recommends the Colts consider a philosophical change in their D
http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090122/SPORTS0204/301229907
P.S. I know absolutely NOTHING about Justin Cohn’s writing, so please do not shoot the messenger (ME!) if this guy is typically regarded as an ass or anti-Colts.
by LovinBlue on Jan 22, 2009 7:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
don't worry he's fails at taking a position and defending it worse
he won’t take a hard stance in the article on what they should do (he’s just "exploring the possibilities) then just drops ideas with no support.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Jan 22, 2009 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Any idea what...
… the signing of Michael Okwo might signal? (www.nfl.com/transactions – 1/16)
by LovinBlue on Jan 23, 2009 12:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
it signals that Michael Okwo won’t be unemployed again for a few months!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmGdAPjcgaM&eurl=http://www.only17points.com/&feature=player_embedded
by Nideak on Jan 23, 2009 12:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry for being a smart ass
Know nothing about him, he’s short enough to be an indy LB and he weighs around 230, which is pretty close to standard for their LBs. He’s probably just someone they want to take a look at. They recently tried to sign a pass rush speciailist out of BC (british columbia) from the CFL, but the Dolphins got him instead. This is just the time when teams will take a look at all the street FAs out there to see if they got skills.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmGdAPjcgaM&eurl=http://www.only17points.com/&feature=player_embedded
by Nideak on Jan 23, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
np - I thought it was funny
But I was curious – I’ve never paid so much attention to activity after the last game of the year and before the draft so was surprised that they would sign someone who is basically new to the team at this time. For all I know, all the players join Brett Favre for a nice hunting trip or they hang out with Tony Romo and Jessica in Cabo until spring so I wasn’t quite sure why someone was being signed at this time. I also wasn’t sure why THIS guy and what that might mean for draft or FA prospects.
by LovinBlue on Jan 23, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe it does
Like I said, I think if Jerry and Raji are gone but Laurinatis (I’m seriously going to just start calling him Larry because I always think I spell his name wrong) is still there then we’ll probably take him. Or Clint Sintim. With the possibility of Cushing/Matthews. And then go for Marks/Brace/Hood. I know some people might like that, but I think this move is supporting it. Maybe Caldwell liked what he saw with Keiaho at Mike when Brackett was out. And I’m not sure where I put this, but I’m thinking (and I hate to think this way but this is reality, and I love the guy), Brackett might be losing his job. Especially if we see Wheeler playing on the first unit in pre-season or what we hear from camp. I think they might be leaning towards trying out Session, Wheeler, and everyone at Will because it’s one of the hardest positions (requires coverage AND blitzing) and place Keiaho at Mike because at least he has the potential to blitz. Or in a crazy world they could stand Mathis up like they did with Ware.
Here’s highlights from the LB/D-line vs O-line on the South team. Jerry’s phenomenal and I like his size. Moala is not impressive at all. I see what they were saying about choosing when he wants to play. Effort is lacking. Chris Matthews shows up about halfway through, Jerry is about 70-80% through, and Moala shows up a couple times.
http://bengals.com/media/index.asp?multimedia_id=2190
In all honesty, from what I’ve been hearing about the Senior Bowl (I have the e-mails from Matt McGuire where he answered a few of my questions the other day on my work e-mail), if Jerry and Raji are gone, and we can get Larry and leave Keiaho at Will and put Wheeler or Session at Sam, and then draft Hood in the second round (McGuire said fantastic things about hood and it’s been echoed by multiple scouts), we actually might be better off. Or if we can get Sintim/Cushing and Hood/Marks in the second I think we would be too. Another possibility trading down into the high 2nd area and possibly picking up a high 4th round or something and taking Hood/Matthews (that’d probably be worst case) it’d allow us to fill out some other spots later on. According to McGuire, Dannell Ellerbe is probably one of the best coverage LBs at the Mike position. And from what I’ve read about him, I agree. He had an arrest his freshman year though, don’t know how morally stringent will be with Dungy gone. I actually really like the idea of trying to “steal” Jasper Brinkley as either a Mike or a Sam in the 3rd, especially if we get a nice comp pick for Scott. I know the dude had a knee injury, but at least that was in 2007. Before that he was considered one of the top 2 or 3 ILB/OLB in the country. The guy’s a monster. He’s bigger than almost our entire D-line but he’s supposed to be awesome in coverage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_q7QG0Fxlo&feature=related (The first part is him, it’s a SC compilation though, trust me, you’ll know who he is though)
And when a LB can do this to Tebow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bipvpIfNgJo&feature=related
And here’s his speed after a deep int (the INT wasn’t impressive but how he looks when he runs is)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I-EEd68fXM
And actually, while I was looking up Brinkley I found this -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnLqb2FP2_U&feature=related
Definitely think Wheeler’s more suited to Will or Mike, fast, but those look like arm tackles. Looks like he needs his entire body to bring someone down. Granted I haven’t really seen him on the field a whole lot so he might’ve added some bulk, but to me (and I know he weighs 235-240), he kind of looks like a safety to me.
And yeah, I think we can wait on a RB, unless you want to show me someone other than Moreno and Wells like this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW6yFIRgjWs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgpMALTonRE
Sorry, tangent, I know. ADHD acting up again. Anyway, I think if we get somebody who places an emphasis on LBs (Coyer) and Jerry and Raji are gone these would be strong drafts;
1) James Laurinaitis, MLB OSU (Pay attention to his eyes, that’s not just a physically gifted athlete, that’s an extremely intelligent one)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9-k7Czh_ww
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E87AfT_5S2g&feature=related
2) Ziggy Hood, DT, Mizzou
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80e44fdd (He shows up at 2:50)
3) Jasper Brinkley, LB, South Carolina
I’m going to stop there because I just watched like 3 hours of video. So yeah, I think that’d be a pretty sick 3 if Jerry isn’t there. And I think our defense would be borderline sick.
by monstersbox on Jan 23, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah call him Larry
don’t steal PasR18*andDONEwithoutCHEATING’s shtick.
Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA
by shake n bake on Jan 23, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That we're
Going to try to draft a LB on day 1 or early day 2?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/players/19636.html
Probably means they’re adding depth to Will, possibly playing with the idea of moving Keiaho to Mike, or doing something with Wheeler. Way too early to tell. Obviously they didn’t think we had good enough LBs though.
by monstersbox on Jan 23, 2009 12:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
holy gosh!
I tried to wiki this guy to see if he had ever done anything special (like do a rubik’s cube underwater blind folded) and it already lists that he plays for the Colts.
People are fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmGdAPjcgaM&eurl=http://www.only17points.com/&feature=player_embedded
by Nideak on Jan 23, 2009 12:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s nothing, you obviously didn’t see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Coyer
by monstersbox on Jan 23, 2009 12:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My opinion...
of the Colts LBs is that they are adequate but nothing more. I really like Brackett, but I don’t see him staying around. I think Session hits really hard…but misses too many tackles by not wrapping up. I really think that LB is a position that needs a serious upgrade. Behind DT. I would like to see larger line backers. Heck, the thing that always bugged me about Dungy’s philosophy was small and fast. Now I am by no means an expert, but there are some bigger LBs out there who can run. Same on the DL. I want to see more intensity, and better tackling. Just my wish list. As was stated earlier, if there is going to be a change in the blitzing scheme of the defense I don’t think our linebackers are suited. Wheeler may be perfect…we will see.
by TRDean on Jan 23, 2009 6:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Oh yea...
Randy Cross said the Colts are the best tackling team in the league…I disagree. I can’t count how many time I saw an offensive player hit by the Colts D and still move forward 3 or more yards. Lets see some guys be able to stone a runner!! Without having to have 5 of his teamates to help him get the job done.
by TRDean on Jan 23, 2009 6:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Gang tackling is apart of these things called “fundamentals.” Ironically, fundamentals just happened to be one of the things Dungy coached more than anything. Coincidence? Hmmm, maybe.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
by KingRichard on Jan 23, 2009 8:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gang tackling is fundamentals...
However, it is never good when it takes 5 guys to consistently bring someone down…especially when that someone has made positive yardage after first contact. How about gang tackling and putting the ball carrier on his back straight away? Better yet right?
by TRDean on Jan 23, 2009 8:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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