2009-2010 Indianapolis Colts

by J-Gao on Jan 7, 2009 8:43 PM EST Comment 64 comments

I, like most of you, am a bit disappointed to see the Colts fall short again this year. There were glaring weaknesses on the team, and it was Peyton Manning's awesomeness (or just being himself) that even got the Colts as far as they were. Glaring weaknesses are not as bad as they sound. The "good" thing about them is that they demand attention are more likely to be fixed by the team than more minor weaknesses.

Obvious weaknesses were both lines (offensive and defensive), which led to a below average running game. Other concerns will include Marvin Harrison's age and, of course, injuries to key players.

You can't really do much about the injuries, other than not letting the guys play - which is just a little counter-productive. But, the other problems have solutions.

Before, I go on, I will say this: I am by no means a football expert, and until recently haven't really paid much attention to the NFL. Most of my opinions are based on what I read from this blog, fanposts, and other sites. 95% of you guys probably know more than me. But I digress...

The easiest ways to fix problems is through Free Agency and the Draft. By my count, this is the order of positions that need the most addressing - Defensive Tackle, Offensive Tackle, Kick/Punt Returner, Linebacker, Wide Receiver, Full Back, Running Back, Defensive Back, and Quarterback.

The premier Defensive Tackle solutions are Peria Jerry (Miss.) and Albert Haynesworth. This position was a huge problem, as they Colts stunk at stopping the run. Jerry and Albert are both among the top players at their levels (college and pro). According to the two top mock drafts through searching "nfl mock draft 2009" on Google, Peria Jerry will be picked by Colts. Haynesworth's talent is undeniable, but many have concerns about his motivation and attitude. I personally don't think this is a huge issue. Even if he isn't playing for a contract and isn't playing to his full potential, he is still among the best. In a dream world, these two guys could slot right into both DT positions - and it's not that far-fetched, A.H. will likely could a double-digit annual salary, and the Colts aren't that far off in terms of cap space, and could get there if something is done about Marvin Harrison.

I'm going to skip to Wide Receiver after the Harrison mention. Obviously, the Colts have to very talented younger WR's in Gonzalez and Wayne. Harrison, though, while still useful, is in a rapid decline. I think the Colts would do really well to add another athletic, deep threat. For free agents, other than the likely-to-be-too-expensive TJH, there's Devery Henderson. He's a deep threat, no doubt, but I like Percy Harvin a lot. He's very versatile and could fill in as returner, receiver, and running back (?). By most mock drafts, he'll be either a late-first round pick, or early-second round. But I'd rather have the Colts pick P. Jerry with their first pick. Which is why I propose a trade. How about the 2nd Round pick and a 2010 mid-late round pick for another first-round pick or early 2nd round pick? We'll see. Also, there's Pat White. He could be had in the middle rounds 4 or 5. He's definitely got the athleticism, he just needs more polish.

Offensive Line. Well, this is a problem. It was quite good in 2007, but not so much in 2008. And not much changed - other than injuries to Saturday and Lilja. The draft doesn't look to be a huge help here, as most of the top talent will be gone before the Colts' first pick - A. Smith, J. Smith, Oher, Monroe, Black, and Britton. I'm not sure the free agents are that great either, or any that are worth the price. I might be the only one, but I don't think there should be much change. With the return of hopefully healthy Saturday and Lilja and development of Ugoh, Pollack, Johnson, etc., the line will be much this/next year.

The O-line was a huge factor in the shitty running attack. Addai fell from being one of the best RB's to, well, not. Rhodes wasn't exactly great either. If the O-line improves as I think it will, this shouldn't be a problem. The only thing I propose here is to consider Darren Sproles. I know, he's Public Enemy #1, but he's oh-so-talented. I'm not familiar with NFL financial things, so I'm not sure if his salary could fit in. But he'd be real nice on Special Teams - which was a fairly overlooked problem - and as a 2nd back. I wouldn't mind the return of Rhodes or Edge, though. Mike Hart could be a surprise as well. He was solid before going down to injury, but I'd prefer we had at least 2 RB's ahead of him.

Other than the O-line, a true full back would help the running game. This is not a position I'm very familiar with, but after reading Playoff Pride's post, I think Terrelle Smith would work.

Defensive backs and Linebackers aren't huge problems, but after seeing injuries to key guys like Sanders, Marlin, and Brackett, I think added depth could be helpful. No need to get a FA like Jonathan Vilma, but spending a 3rd round pick on a Jason Phillips, and/or latter round picks on Cary Harris and Josh Pinkard (both part of the phenomenal USC defense) would be a good idea.

That leaves QB. I realize Peyton Manning is a stud and iron man. He doesn't miss games. But what if he does, Jim Sorgi? And at some point he won't be around to save our butts. We likely won't have a top-5 pick to get someone, so I think developing a young backup QB for half-a-decade would be a solid idea. Maybe not start this year, but since I'm writing this now, I'll say that the Colts should draft a guy in the 5-7 rounds. My candidate - John Parker Wilson. He's by no means phenomenal, but seems like a guy who could learn well under Manning, and develop into a solid starter.

So here's what I've got:

Sign Haynesworth.

Consider Sproles.

Re-Sign Hayden and Saturday, and maybe Rhodes.

Keep Offensive Line of Ugoh, Lilja, Saturday, Pollack, and maybe Johnson.

Sign Terrelle Smith.

Draft:

1. Peria Jerry (Miss)

1b (trade picks somehow). Percy Harvin (Florida)

3 (2nd pick traded for the other 1st rounder). Jason Phillips (TCU)

4. Pat White (WV)

5. Josh Pinkard (USC)

6. John Wilson (Alabama)

7. Cary Harris (USC)

And, in order, to get enough money for signings - re-structure contract of Harrison (I can't picture letting him go).

I'm more of a baseball fan, so I'm not really well-rehearsed on the NFL salary structure and stuff, so I don't know how many guys the Colts can afford to sign.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors.

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That took a lot of time to think and write.

Welcome. You will fit in fast here I am sure. And you will hopefully soon embrace football’s superiority to baseball =p

Seriously, I don’t know that a lot of that is possible or likely, but I like most of it, except getting Haynesworth. No thanks, I expect we will see a huge drop in effort after he lands his payday. And I’ll never be okay with that head stomp. I am not sure we could pull off the draft trade you mentioned, but I’m pretty sure we won’t, anyhow. So I’ll just hope for either of those guys.

Thanks for your contribution.

by coltsfanawalt on Jan 8, 2009 12:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I doubt it

Out of the big 3, base-,basket-, and football, football’s probably at the bottom. Others may prefer it, but I don’t like that there are so few games, spaced so far apart. There’s really no way to change it, given the amount of preparation required, but I find it hard to stay with a sport that plays so infrequently.

"I'm a man who discovered the wheel and built the Eiffel Tower out of metal and brawn. That's what kind of man I am. You're just a woman with a small brain. With a brain a third the size of us. It's science." - Ron Burgundy

by J-Gao on Jan 8, 2009 8:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll probably get to your entire post tomorrow

But you seem like you’re interested in expanding your football knowledge and you’ve been on here trying to compete with me in longest post possible. You lave out the complete pointless tangents that I so much enjoy, but you break it down. I’ll give you a couple things before I go to bed and probably get to the rest of your stuff tomorrow.

If Percy Harvin happens to be there in the first round, I’m not saying 100% go for him, and if they do decide to take them and use the second pick on a DT then I’d be lying if I said I wouldn’t be very happy. However, I don’t like losing future draft picks by getting greedy and trying to use fix-a-flat when you actually need a new tire. Especially considering where the Colts have grown used to drafting. Our first pick, not first round because we didn’t have one because we traded it away to SF so we could get Ugoh in the 2nd round in the 2007 draft. Now that was a draft pick trade that actually worked out for us. Glenn announces his sudden retirement so having Ugoh getting up to speed helped us out a ton. And like I said, our drafts are normally pretty low in the first round anyway so it’s basically like a high 2nd round pick. But you need a magic 8 ball to actually predict what’s going to happen on draft day. Our first pick this year, considering where we typically draft, was essentially a 3rd round pick. He’s panned out, but when you’re not getting a chance to look at the best fruit possible, eventually it’ll catch up. They call picks draft day surprises because that’s exactly what they are. If we can get Percy in the first round, the dropoff in DTs and the demand for DTs is relatively low so we still have options. And if we can’t get Percy in the first round, taking one of the better DTs I’d consider just as awesome and there’s definitely options going forward. Basically what I’m saying is we could be sitting there knocking at our prom date’s parents house looking like a complete dweeb all dressed up and your date’s in the background getting busy with 3 dudes from the men’s volleyball team. (And no, that didn’t happen to me but I seriously think that’d be one of the worst feeling’s ever. I guess you could top it with either male cheerleaders or the chess club). We could end up with a higher 1st round pick that isn’t Percy (Percy’s getting busy with the chess club).

If I were the Colts, I’d actually trade away the 1st round pick because people just love to say it’s first round and sometimes moving up a few spots is very very enticing to some teams who just KNOW that the other team is going to go for that dude 1 or 2 people picks in front of them. We could probably end up trading for a pretty high 2nd round pick, keep our 2nd round pick, and pick up a 4th or 5th round pick. People are crazy when it comes to draft day. The Cowboys gave up their 1-3 picks for Roy Williams. Granted I’m not accusing them of being able to winning a game of tic-tac-toe against a computer, but giving up the future for the now generally goes against our modus operandi. But to be perfectly honest, I’d have to look at the other teams and try to guess their needs and who could possibly want to move up a bit to make it happen. I’ll probably do that at some point because the season’s over, but I’m definitely looking forward to next season. I think we have a pretty good idea of exactly what we need to work on and have it within our power to fix it by next year.

We’ve had a very good team for years, and now with a couple of precise moves, could be setting ourselves up so that the list I made of all the people that called Manning a choker or bad in the playoffs (couldn’t argue before 2006 but don’t make me open hand slap all of you) will be ruined! Actually, that very last part is complete fantasy, they’ve been doing it for years. Manning could end his career with the best team he’s ever had around him, we’re seriously that close, and that’s how it should be. Fading away like Marino, Favre, and other QBs that are considered great is depressing to me. I know what they did, but snap judgement hack writers like to portray them in a way to get paid.

And I’ll give you some points of interests to look up if the Percy thing doesn’t pan out (I think it’s more likely than not to not happen, but it’d be pretty cool).

1) DT, the names you mentioned are spot on, my preference being Jerry
2a) Shonn Green if available, otherwise move RB to 3rd round (He might’ve ended his college career too well for this to be realistic, but the demand for RB is relatively low and the talent is deep)
2b)ILB or best available – Brandon Spikes would be cool but we’d be lucky to get him this late, but who knows? Or Darry Beckwith, I’ve heard good things about him. If neither are available OT more than likely. Could probably go either OT over ILB anyway, but I feel we’ll eventually have to get a true MLB with Brackett getting older or leaving the team.
3) I think this is the round where we can get a steal, and I’m really liking Rashad Jennings. I’ve heard huge fluctuating ideas of where he should go, but everything I’ve seen doesn’t do anything but compliment him. He’s big and powerful, but also a great receiver. And he’s fast for his size, 230-240 runs around a 4.45ish 40. He reminds alot of what Peyton Hillis was showing flashes of before he got hurt. Here he is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohP5XBCu_ws

I could alter it many different ways, but I think that’d be an A+ on draft day for the first 3 rounds. That would just be my dream list, I don’t think we get Spikes in the bottom of the second round, but Beckwith or another good OT would be good choices. Jennings is my "look at that rookie run! he was drafted in the 3rd or 4th round!) dude this year. If he hadn’t gone to Liberty and stayed at Pitt, he’d probably easily be a low 1st round to mid 2nd round dude.

Anyway, take it easy.

by monstersbox on Jan 8, 2009 1:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

The last thing the Colts need is to pass up on a DT or OT in the first round for Percy Harvin. That’d be the equivalent of the Raiders drafting McFadden last year. It’s just a dumb move. Like I’ve been saying, more than likely I think they’ll draft an OT and DT in the first two rounds because those are the two most important positions the Colts need to shore up. Then a running back in the third, unless like you said someone like Brandon Spikes somehow fell down, Polian would probably grab him in the third and hope one of the many running back prospects out there will fall to the fourth. After that it’s all defense.

by KingRichard on Jan 8, 2009 8:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not Harvin

I’m not saying that Harvin should be our first pick. I posted Peria Jerry (DT) as the first pick. I was just speculating about trading for another pick to get Harvin as a bonus. Jerry’s the priority, though.

by J-Gao on Jan 8, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok, but I still disagree with drafting the guy at all considering they still have 2 other receivers they need to get involved into the offense, one of which will have a lot more of an impact than Harvin imo.

by KingRichard on Jan 8, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh and I’m also really high on Rashad Jennings. He has all the intangibles, but the best thing I like about him is he has sneaky speed. It doesn’t look like he’s that fast at first glance, but once he gets in the open the dude can fly.

by KingRichard on Jan 8, 2009 8:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2b?

Where’d the second pick in the second round come from?
Trade? What other changes now and the future for draft picks?

Are there any compensation rules like in the MLB, or not, like the NBA?

by J-Gao on Jan 8, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

New members

One thing that I’ve realized is that with the early ending of the Colt’s season there has been a lot of new members to this site. I know that this site helps me with coping with the loss, the writers are doing a great job to keep us looking foward and not dwelling on the horrible lost.

Anywho, welcome!

by MarkFive05 on Jan 8, 2009 12:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

RB

I don’t really see why we need to draft a running back like Jennings with a pick that could be used on a defensive back or lineman. Addai may not have been good last year, but I think it’s too early to give up on him, and Rhodes/Hart should be good enough as a backup. I think it was the O-line and possibly the lack of a fullback that led to the subpar running game. Unless the RB can be used as a key component in other areas, such as a special teams player, I don’t think we really need one.

By the way, does Percy Harvin have the ability to play RB in the NFL?

by J-Gao on Jan 8, 2009 5:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Here’s a few reasons why we need another running back that is more of a physical style runner:

1. Addai isn’t a #1 back, and using him as such is a huge mistake. However, he has amazing skills in the open and his intangibles such as catching and pass blocking are phenominal. His problem are he is injury prone apparently, and if the o-line can’t block very good he production takes a nose dive.

2. Rhodes is past his prime, he’s a UFA, and more than likely will be wanting more money. So wouldn’t it make sense to just draft someone, get some more youth on our side and still be cheap?

3. We can’t rely on Hart at all next season, doing so will be a huge mistake. He’d be lucky to even be 90% when the season starts, let alone ready to fill a backup spot in support of anyone. And considering neither Rhodes and Addai aren’t premiere backs, who is Hart supposed to back up? Backing up a back up is just dumb.

4. Percy Harvin isn’t a running back. He hasn’t been coached as a running back, and more than likely wouldn’t make it in the NFL as a running back. He’s a jack of all trades, and in the NFL you need to pick a trade and master it. That’s the only way to become successful.

by KingRichard on Jan 8, 2009 7:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Look down and read what I put

I address what Harvin would add to the running game. And you can’t deny players like Sproles, Bush, or an insanely fast WR doesn’t force defenses to adjust their scheme. And I agree with you, but like I said, we could get a Rashad Jennings in the 3rd round. And I’ve seen Harvin run, he’s a better runner than Bush is. Bush always skated to the outside and outran people. Harvin runs between defenders and will deliver a blow if a guy’s in his way. I haven’t looked it up but I actually think he has more rushing yards than receiving this year. I know he has about 860 or so rushing. And he was injured off and on so that’s pretty good production. He’s a runner with speed as opposed to a speeder that can run. His ability to run after he catches the ball and has defenders around him is what turned me onto him.

Let’s both watch the game tonight and take what we see to either validate or refute both arguments. I’ve really only seen him in highlights and heard about him through the local media, but I’ll pay close attention. And I have no problem coming in and saying “I was an idiot for saying that.”, but he could prove us both wrong and end up being a top 15 pick if he has a great game so the argument’s a wash anyway.

by monstersbox on Jan 8, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree.

A power back is necessary.

Good points, all.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Jan 8, 2009 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Okay

I still think that we have bigger issues to address through the draft than an RB. But point taken. It’s a risky situation. I still don’t get why people are so down on Addai. He was great just a year ago.

I hope that Harvin has just one or two good plays halfway through the game, and stays quiet the rest of the way. Then, he might be around long enough to draft – in case the elite DT’s are taken.

by J-Gao on Jan 8, 2009 8:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm upset.

We get the 28th pick and San Diego has #16.

Indianapolis Colts: Peria Jerry, DT, Ole Miss
Both sides of Indianapolis’ run defense has to be addressed. Defensive tackle has always been a problem for the Colts, especially after the Ed Johnson marijuana scandal. I could see the Colts taking the best available player in terms of a running back, defensive tackle or offensive tackle.

From that groovy NFL Draft site Walterfootball.com

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Jan 8, 2009 5:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

New Era Scouting has the Colts taking Jerry too

http://www.newerascouting.com/nfl_draft/mock_draft/1754-first-round-mock-draft-2/

Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA

by shake n bake on Jan 8, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dont Matter

We’ll be better next year!

by J-Gao on Jan 8, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that's the consensus

And I’m not exactly sure if people dogging my Harvin pick in the 1st round actually understood what I meant by that. Let me explain. What I meant was that yes, we need major help in the return game without question. As I said, the return game is underrated and more of a factor than people give it credit for. Secondly, we have no true deep threat and who knows what’ll happen going into next season with Harrison? I like Garcon but for some reason we didn’t use him as a returner often, but when we did he was great. But he hade a vague knee injury that I don’t feel like looking up right now. Secondly, everyone complains about our run game and wants it addressed. Percy isn’t going to be able to be a feature back and carry the ball 20 times, but he has NFL running ability and looks like a RB when he does run. Thirdly, the dude runs a 4.3 and if a player with that speed and catching ability plays in the slot, the defense has to adjust to account for it and it alleviates pressure placed on the run game. So even if he isn’t running, he actually is helping the run game.

I’m not saying trade up to get him, I’m not even saying he’ll be there by our pick. What I am saying, is that I don’t expect the Colts to not get Jerry or a DT, but if he’s still around by our pick, I wouldn’t be pissed off like I would be if they picked a WR or RB or something other than a DT. This analogy to the Raiders taking McFadden isn’t even remotely close to the same thing. They already had Fargas and another back that they were planning on starting this year. Percy would actually fix areas that NEED fixing. His ability to legitimately play RB and WR and be a great returner address deficiencies that we actually have. What I am saying, is that I would like them to take a DT and fully expect it, however, he’s the only guy that if he wasn’t a DT I would be saying “Well, at least he’s a possible fix to problems that we do have.”

And Jerry and Marks are considered two of the top DTs in the draft. The reason why everyone’s predicting us to take them is because, while teams may like to have an upgrade at DT, they have bigger problems at other positions. The demand for other positions is higher than DT for most teams. Think of the teams that could be strongly pursuing DTs as their biggest need.

DET – Teams with head coaching changes always have to be considered loose cannons. Depending on who ends up there will have alot to do with how they want to go with their franchise. With that said, Detroit knows what they have in Calvin Johnson, I’m almost 100% sure they take one of the QBs with their first 1st round pick, their second will probably be a lineman to have him grow with whomever they choose as QB. They might stay on offense through the second round and get a TE or slot receiver type for a safety valve. Or they might go defense, but their CBs are the worst part of their defense. And besides, who expects Detroit to do anything rational at this point?

KC – Needs help on their line and if they don’t go for one of the high profile QBs (and remember trends, everyone’s a copycat and after watching Ryan and Flacco turn their teams around these guys are going to go like hot cakes by bad teams trying to turn themselves around) it means that they think Thigpen is the answer. If they decide to stay with Thigpen, they might be looking for a replacement for Tony Gonzalez in the draft and take one early since it’s his favorite target. Or they could fire Herm and going into a complete rebuild mode and if they rebuild they’ll focus on shoring up the side of the ball that has more potential and probably try to solidify their offense and focus on defense after. That’s the normal procedure for most teams.

STL – I’m pretty sure they wanted Jake Long last year, and Pace isn’t the same guy he used to be. Bulger has been getting blasted the entire season and that’s been the general trend of the Rams the past few years. They’ll probably go O-line then secondary.

OAK – Look for the biggest name, offensive weapon to be wasted in Oakland again. But if someone decides to inject the children Davis feeds on with common sense before feedings, they’ll probably lean towards trying to fix their O-line to actually let everyone know if Russel and McFadden are truly busts or not. Then he’ll probably get the fastest guy available in the second round after the effects of the common sense serum wears off.

There’s a few other teams that I could continue to list, but I honestly think the only people who might consider DTs as a focus are Denver, Green Bay, and Atlanta. Atlanta might try to replace Lawyer Milloy though because he looked terrible in the Arizona game. And he’s not young. If Green Bay’s secondary hadn’t completely collasped they probably would’ve gone for a LB or to a lesser extent a DT. But Woodson’s getting older, been moved to safety, and their secondary unexplainably fell apart. Their O-line definitely took a step back so they’ll probably want to fix that and they don’t have the ability to pressure QBs so they’d probably get a DE above a DT anyway. Denver is definitely going to go heavy defense. But they need help at almost every position. Denver will probably take best available player on defense for the first two rounds.

Ok, so what’s my point with my ramblings? The teams that could use a DT have bigger problems. That’s the reason why people are projecting us at getting one of the top DTs in the entire draft at 28. Again, my point was, Peria Jerry is the clear cut guy we want. He’d be perfect and would definitely have an immediate impact. However, if somebody else that thinks he fits their system and someone in front of them takes the guy they want (Denver, Atlanta etc.) they might get him before us. After Peria Jerry and Marks, there’s about 5 guys at DT that nobody has a clue which order to put them in. And I don’t see 5 DTs going before it comes to our pick in the 2nd. And as I said before, Percy also directly addresses other SIGNIFICANT problems we have. And we’re not going to be able to get a Percy Harvin talent by the end of the second round.

As I said, I’m not saying getting him diminishes our goal of getting a DT, I’m saying I wouldn’t be pissed because I could see the logic behind it. Especially if the two guys I mentioned aren’t available, it’d be a waste to use the pick on a dude that would have an extremely high chance of being in the 2nd round anyway. And to tell you the truth, if both Percy and the other two weren’t there, I wouldn’t be pissed if they took a LB.

The draft is completely theoretical. Nobody knows what’s going to happen and the best teams are the ones that have the ability to adapt to the way other teams are drafting and people sitting around in draft rooms arguing with each other. Some teams could be dead set on a guy, have him taken, then someone else makes an argument about taking a guy that they like. One bewildering and questionable move could throw four or five teams out of whack and everything predicted just straight up goes out the window.

I hope they get Jerry or Marks, but if they’re gone and Percy is there, I’d say go for it. But if they just went after any RB/WR and didn’t go LB, then yeah, I’d be a little pissed. That’s all I’m saying.

by monstersbox on Jan 8, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I understand what you are saying, I’m just puzzled as to what exactly you want to draft Harvin for, and what holes he’s going to fill. You are pretty indecisive in the role he should be playing with a comment like this:

His ability to legitimately play RB and WR and be a great returner address deficiencies that we actually have.

There’s no way the Colts are going to draft someone to play 3 different positions like that, there’s just no way. I’ve already admitted that I’m a huge Gators fan and have a man crush on Harvin, but like I’ve said before, he won’t succeed in the NFL unless he picks a position and tries to become the best at it. I bet you couldn’t name one person in the history of the modern NFL who was so dominant they could play running back, receiver, and returner and not be constantly injured or just become mediocre all around? I know I could name a plethora who have tried that and haven’t really amounted to be much. I can tell you right now that the list of busts compared to boomers is going to be ridiculously lopsided to the former.

I seriously don’t see a position he could fill on the Colts right now outside of returner that would warrant a first round pick. Even Hester didn’t last that long as a phenominal returner because people figured out “hey, as long as we don’t kick to the guy, he can’t beat us! bbbbbrilliant!”

by KingRichard on Jan 8, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sproles

Unfortunately, he looked pretty good from where I was watching.
I think Harvin could be very much like him – except with the added ability to play WR. Pretty much anyone would be an upgrade to our return game, and like Sproles this year, we won’t be a feature back, just a backup option.

by J-Gao on Jan 8, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Leon Washington

That took me about .1 seconds. It almost seems like everytime he’s in the game there’s the potential to see something awesome. And even if Hester and Manning aren’t kicked to, they still force the teams to either put it out of bounds or punt it short. They’re not going to return it for a TD everytime they get the ball and might even get a loss. But because they’re so dangerous, teams kick it out of bounds, kick it short and basically say “Ok, we’ll give you a 20 yard return, but you’re not going to touch the ball.” Just because they kick away from them doesn’t mean they’re not effective.

Oh, and Brian Westbrook started his career as a returner, runner, receiver. In fact, he wasn’t going to be the featured back until Buckhalter blew out his knee and Staley turned to crap. Buckhalter was still supposed to be the main back and Westbrook was still intended to be the jack of all trades guy. He was a role player and they were consistently better when he played that role.

Marshall Faulk was of course a RB, but his best years was when they utilized him in the passing game in St. Louis. Warrick Dunn was never considered a featured back and they used him in the same capacity. The Saints are a significantly better team when Bush plays and he’s basically a receiver that plays in the backfield. And like I said, Harvin has more potential as a RB than Bush, about the same speed, and can be a starting receiver. L.T. has insane receiving numbers to go with his ridiculous rushing ones. Deshaun Jackson runs the ball pretty well on reverses.

I could keep going, but my point is that players like this are rare. And even if they only decide to use him as a slot receiver, he’ll improve the running game and has the potential to get by defenders. And I’m not saying he’s going to be anything above an average running back with ridiculous speed and the potential to split defenders (which to mean doesn’t sound that bad), but if they place him in the backfield defenses will have to respect that he can run with the ball. But they also have to be thinking that there’s a good chance of a screen or pass route. That allows the offense to do alot of things people aren’t used to the Colts doing. He could spend half the time he’s back there not part of the play but when you have a defense guessing, you allow other players to make plays. They’re not going to be dropping their LBs into coverage because he might run, they’re not going to be pulling up their safeties because he might go out for a pass. And the entire time they’re trying to figure out what to do, the play might just be going to Gonzalez or Wayne on a streak anyway, but it limits how often they can double either of them. The only way to truly stop the guy 1 on 1 in the open field is with a CB. He’s too quick for safeties and LBs.

The potential for a player like him has the possibility of improving the overall efficiency of an entire offense. Granted he’d probably be placed as a WR and I think he’d do better than just “good” and he’d open up other options and mismatches. And I seriously think he could carry the ball 5-8 times and have a decent average. Or he could carry the ball 2-3 times and catch a few out of the backfield or put him in motion from the gun into the slot. Now you have a guy that can catch extremely well, runs a 4.3, and can make people miss. Tell me who you’re covering when him, Clark, Gonzo, and Wayne are in or if they line him and Addai up in the backfield as split backs? Our offense is beginning to look predictable. The past few years, our offense has actually gone either to the level of our defense or worse in the postseason. We didn’t lose last year because of defense and we didn’t lose this year because of defense. We still have problems on defense, but to say our offense is working as intended or even at the same level it has in the past is denying the obvious.

And add to that that he’d be our best returner in years and I find it hard to easily dismiss him.

Anyway, the game’s about to start so I’m going to watch it and either come back here going “you’re right” or “I’m so awesome” and start doing dance from Thriller in a very obnoxious way.

Either way, I’m not going to keep arguing with you because I’ve already said that this would be a draft day situation and more than one unexpected thing can happen by April.

by monstersbox on Jan 8, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

YESSS!!!

Wow, you know a lot!
A lot of good points.
But unless a trade is made, there’s almost no chance we get him (Harvin), anyway :(

by J-Gao on Jan 8, 2009 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I know

Not about knowing alot, I’m not that cocky, but I know there’s probably no chance we’re going to get him in the draft.

I just understand what someone like him could add with the other weapons we have and Peyton Manning. The players like Harvin are the ones you want young because those are their best years. Him being young overlapping with Peyton still having elite years left coincide with some exciting possibilities.

At the moment I’m just not 100% sold that it’s our defenses keeping us from the SB. Our offense was definitely SB champion caliber previously, but our defense is much better than it used to be and was the reason we won the 2006 SB but now we’ve reverted back to early exits. If we had the defense we do now, even with the deficiencies, there’s probably at least 1 and possibly 2 more SBs we could’ve had.

And I still understand our weaknesses, and the injuries we had, but we were healthier than we had been all season going into the playoffs and the Chargers defense stopped us? The Chargers might be playing better ball than they did earlier, but their defense is not good at all. And I understand the field position, penalties called and penalties not called, but seriously, the Chargers defense contained us. That’s not good. Even the Colts on an off day should be able to do more than they did.

Most of the non calls negatively effected our defense and I think out of both units, our defense played better than our offense did. The entire game I’m saying “Come on guys, score, we can only ask so much from our defense.” But for some reason the Steelers came in, knocked out our players, and replaced them on the field. I know we moved it, but we faced all the top defenses in the league this year and looked better. San Diego “matches up well” is a cop out. That statement means “Well, you might have more talent, but you’re predictable so they know how to stop you.”

by monstersbox on Jan 8, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Next Year

Are there any guys next year that have similar talent and skillset to Percy Harvin?
Or even this year? Pat White?

by J-Gao on Jan 8, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

I don’t know if it came across in my post, but I agree completely. My number one guy is definitely Jerry (I forgot about Marks, he’s cool, too) but Percy Harvin is easily my next option, for the exact reasons you mentioned. Of course, I wouldn’t put it past the Raiders to take him :)

by J-Gao on Jan 8, 2009 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

By the way

Inglesias is playing tonight too. I’ve heard good things about him. If you’re talking about the draft and not watching the game, you’re a dumb dummy.

by monstersbox on Jan 8, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Spikes too

Alot of prospects on both sides.

by monstersbox on Jan 8, 2009 8:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Unless they get to the Super Bowl

In which case they would get pick #31 (if they lose) or #32 (if they win)

by LovinBlue on Jan 8, 2009 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

By the way

Yeah, that was Harvin just getting that 20 yarder and immediately after picking up the blitz in pass protection. And I was wrong, it was only 580 rushing but it was 9 ypc.

by monstersbox on Jan 8, 2009 8:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'll respond to you soon J-Gao

But FYI, Percy just scored a rushing TD. He’s also looked awesome. But not too awesome so that’s good. And it was a power run, 405 bench press. I like him more.

by monstersbox on Jan 8, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hope that ankle holds up...

by LovinBlue on Jan 8, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't look like it right now

But he’s a beast. And I hope it’s just that ankle and he tweaked it which it looks like he did since he’s looking alright on the sideline.

By the way KingRichard, that dude can run man. If you’re not watching this game you’re crazy. And you’re the one that was arguing with me to take a RB over a DT awhile back.

by monstersbox on Jan 8, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I needed to watch him play to see how awesome he is, but am I a bad person for hoping he was hurt just enough to make some teams shy away from not giving us a chance to draft him? I mean, I just want him to play with Peyton so he can be considered awesome, isn’t that having his interests at heart?

Justification is the ultimate form of denial. Remember that the next time you guys are having an argument or are trying to keep yourself from feeling guilty. That’s my way of “keeping it real” for you guys tonight. I’m going to finish watching this game, it’s turning out really good.

by monstersbox on Jan 8, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What? I’ve been watching Percy Harvin for the last 3 years, what he is doing tonight is nothing new to me. Like I’ve said a few times, I’m a Gators fan and I’ve seen him do a lot better before heh.

by KingRichard on Jan 8, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it's funny

you, the Gator fan are trying to talk people out of Harvin, while I (the Hawkeye fan) am trying talk you out of (or at least point out the massive warning flags on) Shonn Greene

Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA

by shake n bake on Jan 8, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And you

Saw him put up 171 yards and a TD against an extremely good team and pretty much be the biggest spark in the national championship? And say that you don’t think he can rush the ball? And receive? That’s not Reggie Bush razzle dazzle stuff man, those were impressive runs and he had a couple impressive catches. He looked good at both positions against the best team in the country.

by monstersbox on Jan 9, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh no nonnonononononononno, don’t start skewing my words people.

First off, I’m not trying to talk people out of drafting Harvin. I’m just trying to remind them that guys like that more often than not don’t end up being successful in the NFL is all.

Second off, I never said he can’t rush the ball, or receive. I never said he couldn’t do anything so I don’t know where you are getting that from. Obviously the guy is riddled with natural ability. But you’ve got to remember, this is college bra.

And lastly, OU obviously wasn’t the best team in the country. They kind of just got beat did they not?

by KingRichard on Jan 9, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I uh...

I um….uh….eh….you might want to look down and see my post I put up immediately after my first one. Look down a few inches. Yeah, that’s the one. And I’m not skewing your words, I want you to argue your point because the best way to become more knowledgeable about football is to argue with someone and have to go look up as much as you can to back up your arguments. And remember I said research, reading articles and sports analysis written but morons isn’t research. I actually didn’t say you were trying to talk me out of thinking he’d be a good fit, I’ve actually taken alot of what you said into account and have been learning more about him because you’re making me look stuff up because you’ve brought up good points.

I still think he’d be awesome on the team and my assessment of still being able to get him and one of the top 5 DTs is correct. And a DT that would fit our system. I wrote up a whole long thing about it man. I made my point, you made yours, and both sides have been good. I don’t think you’ve convinced me that it’s completely far fetched. When I actually presented it I thought it might be, but after checking into quite a few things and watching a ton of film on him today along with that game, I think it’s only made me think my argument is more valid.

I understand it’s college and I watch quite a bit of tape on college players. I hate college football too. I’m a Penn State and a FSU fan. I keep up with NIU every now and then because my best friend went to school there so I watched a few games and saw Turner play. And Diem’s from there. But yeah, hasn’t been super fun recently. But I’ve still been watching alot of players for years to try to get better at seeing potential and it’s chances of transferring to the NFL. And Harvin straight up has it man. I saw Bush play and I knew he’d be good but I didn’t think he’d last because he wasn’t going to outrun everyone like he did in college but he’d be exciting to watch. I actually think if McFadden wasn’t on the Raiders and hurt this year he’d be showing some really nice stuff. I started doing it alot when they were having the Leaf/Manning debate. And then it got interesting doing it. Harvin has NFL RB ability with significant power for his size and deceptively quick speed and changes of direction. His hands are amazing. He’s small but built like he can actually have a career like a typical WR or RB. Granted he’s hurt, but a high ankle sprain, hitting his head, and heel surgery are a far cry from a torn ligament or broken bone.

And I think having the Leon Washington’s on your team provide you with significant advantages I’ve already gone over. Peyton’s never had a speed guy. I think if anyone can take advantage of the full potential of a given player with raw athletic talent and ability from an offensive standpoint, it’s Peyton Manning. I don’t think you CAN look bad playing with him. Utecht anyone? Give me one player on offense, any player, that has looked better playing for another team than they did with the Colts if they left? While Peyton’s been QB, Faulk doesn’t count. And tell me the last time the Colts got a player that was explosive as Harvin is? I’m not saying we haven’t gotten great players, but we go for consistent, not explosive. Most of the time explosive means inconsistent. But Harvin’s looks like he has the ability to be consistent.

Like I said a few minutes ago, I don’t think we have a chance at him after that performance. But that doesn’t disprove my point.

Oh, and I’m pretty sure that Colt McCoy has made the Lions job of picking which career they want to end the most more difficult. Bradford more than likely just played himself to 4 behind Tebow. I have a feeling Tebow might stay his senior year though. I still think we see Stafford a Lion, McCoy a Chief, and if SF sticks with Shaun Hill, Bradford (or shockingly enough, if Tebow stays, you might see him as a Jet). Guess that hinges on when Favre decides to make a decision.

by monstersbox on Jan 9, 2009 1:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Er, let me edit that and say I hate the BCS system and it doesn’t mean crap. I’m not a moron.

by monstersbox on Jan 9, 2009 12:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh yep

I was thinking the same thing. But then again, if he got hurt, the Colts might shy away as well.

by J-Gao on Jan 8, 2009 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Probably

That was probably the only way the Colts would’ve had a shot at him in the first place. You can’t have a performance like that in the championship game without everyone noticing. Tons of people have either proven themselves, or fooled people into thinking they’re good (Sorry Vince, this means you and many others) by clutch performances. And he gave a good interview at the end, pretty classy and well spoken for someone his age, sounded professional and humble. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next Sports Illustrated has him and Tebow on the front cover with an in depth thing on them or something equally as lame. But it’ll impress people and teams.

by monstersbox on Jan 9, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Aww

I missed the interview.

by J-Gao on Jan 9, 2009 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Is this guy...

worth trading up for?

by J-Gao on Jan 9, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I still don't think so

As much as I’d like him playing for us, it’s too much of a gamble. Besides, we’d significantly improve our team with one of the stud DTs anyway. A tradeup could end up with us not having a shot at him. He’s definitely increased his draft status, but nobody knows by how much. He could end up teams like Baltimore, Minnesota, Chicago (don’t think he fits well with another guy named Hester that’s similar, too much speed not enough size), Jacksonville or (bet you can’t guess this one) Oakland. Al Davis probably just sat around the whole game doing his best Crypt Keeper impression and laugh whenever this guy touched the ball.

Let that last sentence settle, I think I’m going to have nightmares now.

by monstersbox on Jan 9, 2009 12:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Giants/Titans

And if hes fall to us and we don’t take him the Giants or Titans will likely be landing spots for him. I seriously don’t want the Titans to get him. That’d be bad to have Chris Johnson with 4.2something and Harvin with 4.3.

by monstersbox on Jan 9, 2009 1:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And Belichick and Kraft were at the game

probably licking their chops

by LovinBlue on Jan 9, 2009 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nah

They’re fine with their receivers. They know they have to get another LB or a DB. Getting him wouldn’t change their defense declining at an alarming rate. If anything they’d probably be drooling over Murray if he decides to declare (the RB for Oklahoma, he had a good game) if they were going to want something for offense. They were probably coming to check out Florida’s defense. Possibly trying to see how well Spikes (LB from Florida) and Harris (Safety from OU). They won’t resign Harrison if he decides not to retire. Harvin would be a waste in their system because he’s probably best suited for the slot and they already have Welker. They need a possession, midrange receiver. They have moss for the long/fade rounds, Welker for the dinks and make people miss, they don’t have an over the middle, quick curl guy. And Gafney actually showed that he might be able to fill that out pretty well, he’s pretty well suited for it. If they do go over the middle more than the 7 yarders to Welker, it’s generally to Watson (he’s actually really good but used as a blocker to make it easier on Cassel to adjust).

And if Maroney recovers, they’ll ride him until his contract runs out and stick with the committee. And is Hobbs still their returner? He’s pretty decent.

by monstersbox on Jan 9, 2009 12:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2010

Here’s a list of the 2010 NFL free agents:
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=By+Team&y=2010

Could you guys help me out by telling me who the noteworthy guys are? I haven’t been a huge football follower, so I don’t know about 95% of those names.

by J-Gao on Jan 8, 2009 9:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

most of the guys that are good on those lists will get extensions this year

I’d focus on 2009 FAs

Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA

by shake n bake on Jan 8, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Out of date

I’m not sure when that was last updated but I know the reason Boldin was pissed at the beginning of the season was because Fitz got a fat extention and he ignored. They must brainwash everyone over there into thinking they’re making the Jerry McGuire documentary. If Boldin had gotten up after Smith broke his jaw and started dancing like Cuba Gooding junior and Tom Cruise is doing his guffaw in the corner and then it randomly starts raining and he randomly starts running for no apparent reason other than dramatic effect, I was about to be straight pissed.

Anyway, sorry. Breaston’s good but restricted, he emerged as a potential starter when the above mentioned scene occured and Boldin missed some games. Norwood has talent, he’s a quick guy with good return and change of pace RB skills. Roddy White will get a new contract. Someone might take a shot at Smith because he won’t be playing as long as Flacco’s not hurt and was originally supposed to be their starter this year. When he came in he played well. If more people start trying to implement a WildCat offense his stock rises and he’ll probably be a starter somewhere with a short term/slightly above a good backup type salary. Mason will probably retire or take a small salary and end his career with the Ravens. Evans will be resigned.

Holy crap, I’ll go through this later. I was wondering why shake was being a dick and not answering your question at first but I didn’t realize how big that list was. I’ll look at it later.

Peace.

by monstersbox on Jan 9, 2009 1:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty sure

That I just found out that Harvin has the potential to be Manning’s most explosive target and would be insane on our team. But I think he may have played himself up about 10 spots in the draft. 167 yards and a TD. Not bad for a dude playing through a high ankle sprain that’s obviously in pain.

by monstersbox on Jan 8, 2009 11:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

And for some reason I find it kind of gratifying that Bradford just walked off the field looking like he was going to cry.

by monstersbox on Jan 8, 2009 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

jerious norwood? is he a possibility?

by sharpie1600 on Jan 9, 2009 1:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The Falcons don't like him as much as they should

as shown by Turner leading the league in carries.

I still doubt it.

Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA

by shake n bake on Jan 9, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

so would he not fit the colts system?

by sharpie1600 on Jan 9, 2009 2:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The Colts could easily draft someone better than him.

by KingRichard on Jan 9, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know about that

Norwood has a lot of talent, is really fast and catches well from what I have seen.

Wasn’t he a top 3 round pick when he was selected, and the fastest player in that draft at the 40?

by yellowsnow on Jan 9, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He'd be pretty good

Averaged 5.1 ypc, close to 500 yards rushing, 338 receiving, 6 TDs. Averages 26 yards per return over the last 2 years. I like him. I don’t think the Falcons can resign him with Turner there though. I don’t think we could afford him. He’s going to get starting money somewhere and be a decent starter.

I’m not sure about his 40 compared to others, but for a guy his size he moves phenomally fast.

by monstersbox on Jan 9, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If he is starter material, why did they sign turner and automatically make him the start over Norwood? He’s just an above average second string back.

by KingRichard on Jan 9, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Must be right

Yeah, you’re right. I mean the guy must not have talent playing behind a younger Warrik Dunn and Michael Turner. First off, Turner had more experience, was known to be a big free agent signing, and had high POTENTIAL.

Norwood’s averaged 5.8 yards per career for his career, is one of the best returners in football with 1311 return yards and 827 net rush/receiving yards. I don’t know, maybe they wanted to bring in a workhorse back so they could still utilize him as a returner? I mean, call me crazy, but moving the ball 2138 yards is pretty decent. He had 1 less yard than the ENTIRE Indianapolis team did returning kickoffs. He was one of only 3 players with over 2000 all purpose yards this year. And he’s not small. He’s 5’11 and around 210. That’s about the same size of both Edge and Addai. But Edge and Addai don’t run a 4.33 40.

So, did that explain it? Because when you take a great returner out of that phase of the game, you’d better be able to replace him with someone of equal talent, speed, and ability. Otherwise you turn into the Colts return game. So that’s why they brought in Turner. So Norwood can keep returning kicks. Like I said, he WILL get starting money somewhere and be a DECENT back. I never said great. “and be a decent starter.” That’s a quote.

by monstersbox on Jan 9, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I doubt he hits the market

I’m not familiar with his receiving skills, and I think I remember him not being a good blocker.

Shonn Greene for Heisman
Doak Walker award winner
144 yards per game
6.2 yards per carry
08 TDs per game > 06 GPA

by shake n bake on Jan 9, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Norwood

Would it be better to draft a similar back to Norwood, someone like Jennings or even more of a bruiser?

by sharpie1600 on Jan 9, 2009 6:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I think it would be. The chances of the Colts picking up Norwood are pretty slim, especially considering he’ll be asking for more money than the Colts would pay a third or fourth round pick.

by KingRichard on Jan 9, 2009 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs