Indiana makes it clear to ESPN that offense wins championships
ESPN's SportsNation polled over 30,000 people on ESPN.com asking the question, All things being equal, which would you rather have: Great offense, or great defense?
The map of the country below lets everyone know what side of the fence Indiana sits on:
I also very much enjoy that great offense is represented by the color blue.
Tip to Indy Lori.
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52 comments
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Comments
The research I've seen (from FO) says offense
A elite O says elite longer than an elite D, probably because they are dependent on a smaller number of elite players, rather than a top defense which needs full unit of great players to prevent one weak link from getting picked on.
The number of ways you can fool yourself is just amazing.
by shake n bake on Oct 2, 2009 9:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Makes sense to me.
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: The Atlanta Falcons are the only NFL team to never have back-to-back winning seasons in franchise history.
by Cassieper on Oct 2, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indiana is wrong
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by MrNFL on Oct 2, 2009 10:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why is that?
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: The Atlanta Falcons are the only NFL team to never have back-to-back winning seasons in franchise history.
by Cassieper on Oct 2, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at the last Super Bowl chances
Steelers vs Cardinals. Stronger defense won
Giants vs Patriots. Stronger defense won
Steelers vs Seahawks. Stronger defense won
Patriots vs Eagles. Stronger D
Patriots vs Panthers
Buccaneers vs Oakland…Need I continue?
Even when the Colts won, it wasn’t because of the offense, it was because the defense stepped up huge when it mattered.
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by MrNFL on Oct 2, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the postseason as a whole
For the Colts that is.
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by MrNFL on Oct 2, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
you can make a strong case that each team that won had a stronger offense or that the offense stepped up to win the game. Sure the Giants D was awesome but it took Eli, Tyree and Plax to win the game. You could say the defense was better than the other defense but you could also say the offense was better than the other offense. Show me some stat please :)
As long as we have Peyton we will always have a chance to win.
by skywalker on Oct 2, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defense can go a long way in making the offense better with turnovers.
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by MrNFL on Oct 2, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
An example we all use:
Brady had a great defense during those SB runs? :-)
I hate when I can’t argue both sides of an argument without needing a shower.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Oct 2, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually it'd be nice if you did continue
6 isn’t much of a sample size
The number of ways you can fool yourself is just amazing.
by shake n bake on Oct 2, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's see
2001: Patriots over Rams- Defense
2000: Ravens over Giants- Defense
1999: Rams over Titans- Rams had better both statisically
1998: Broncos over Falcons- Offense gets the nod.
1997: Broncos over Packers- That’s more or less a wash
1996: Packers over Patriots- Packers had most scored and fewest allowed, either way.
Certainly, you need a complete team to win either way. But a great defense goes a lot farther IMO. I think recent trends support this. The Patriots won their Super Bowls with defense, the Steelers won their Super Bowls with defense.
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by MrNFL on Oct 2, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i disagree with the Pats
they pretty much outscored everyone due to their offense.
As long as we have Peyton we will always have a chance to win.
by skywalker on Oct 2, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Had we relied on our defense in the last SB
I would be still be recovering.
Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever.
Napoleon Bonaparte
Stampede Blue's Resident Steelers Fan
In order to see the rest of my sig, press ALT and F4.
by LV Steelers Fan on Oct 2, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The sig that keeps on expanding.
Nice though.
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: The Atlanta Falcons are the only NFL team to never have back-to-back winning seasons in franchise history.
by Cassieper on Oct 3, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah,
I’ve had longer.
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: The Atlanta Falcons are the only NFL team to never have back-to-back winning seasons in franchise history.
by Cassieper on Oct 3, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
zing!
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Oct 3, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 2001 Rams D allowed much less yardage, had a much higher DVOA and gave up 1 point more on the season that the 01 pats
please look up the stats instead of going pure reputation
The number of ways you can fool yourself is just amazing.
by shake n bake on Oct 2, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can we get a front page post from you?
please. i know it will take time. I can wait. lol
As long as we have Peyton we will always have a chance to win.
by skywalker on Oct 2, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
11:00 Iowa game
though it’s Arkansas St. and the weather might be crappy, and I’ve got a Bio midterm Tuesday to study for.
If I haven’t said anything by Wednesday, bring it up.
The number of ways you can fool yourself is just amazing.
by shake n bake on Oct 2, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also the question isn't which would you rather have if you were already in the Superbowl
so just seeing if the stronger D won the Superbowl isn’t really the appropriate set of data.
I’ll probably run over the method in my head for a while, but right now I’m thinking about looking at the relation between DVOA (and/or points over average) and wins/postseason success. That will include how well offense/defense gets you into the playoffs, and into the superbowl (which are kind off important factors in winning a superbowl) instead of just winning one if you’re already in one.
The number of ways you can fool yourself is just amazing.
by shake n bake on Oct 2, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"The Greatest Show on Turf"
you can’t at least give Offense SB XXXIV?
by hahasound on Oct 3, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, one of the Colts'
CA contingent voted offense…
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Oct 2, 2009 10:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great Offense vs Great Defense
Look no further than our very own Superbowl
As long as we have Peyton we will always have a chance to win.
by skywalker on Oct 2, 2009 10:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"All things being equal"
Ah yes, ceteris paribus. I just had a flashback to my AP Econ test today. Seriously though, I think that a great offense is better than a great defense(and a mediocre offense is better than a mediocre defense, as SB XLIII proved).
Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever.
Napoleon Bonaparte
Stampede Blue's Resident Steelers Fan
In order to see the rest of my sig, press ALT and F4.
by LV Steelers Fan on Oct 2, 2009 10:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Which one does Peyton Manning play?
I want that one.
by shoein on Oct 2, 2009 11:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This might be the dumbest argument EVER!!!
Each game is different, so teams that win consistantly have to use both defense and offense to win. I don’t think one is better than the other, I’m friggin stoked that we have the best qb in the nfl and the best pass rusher in the nfl to pick up the slack when either unit is having an off game. Damn it feels good to be a COLTS fan!!!
"GO HORSE!"
by beester on Oct 2, 2009 11:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
although its disapointing to see indiana as a blue state
"GO HORSE!"
by beester on Oct 2, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I figured
someone was going to make the obvious connection to “red states/blue states”… glad it didn’t have to be me…
by hahasound on Oct 3, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's plenty to argue around here without bringing politics into it.
The number of ways you can fool yourself is just amazing.
by shake n bake on Oct 3, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hah, true, but that's like saying
there’s plenty of good, clean things you can do with Carmen Electra…
by hahasound on Oct 3, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Careful............
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: The Atlanta Falcons are the only NFL team to never have back-to-back winning seasons in franchise history.
by Cassieper on Oct 3, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something about this
just makes me kind of proud of my home state.
I’m not sure if I believe the fans’ own responses. It’s been reinforced time and again by every “football expert” on the planet that “offense wins games, but DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS OK”, to the extent that fans accept this as objective truth.
But look underneath! Look at all the effort the NFL is putting into keeping star offensive players safe. What drives that? Owners want higher revenue. What drives revenue? Fan interest.
Despite what the polls say, fans don’t want to see 9-3 maulers, they want to see 38-34 shootouts. The NFL gives this idea supporting evidence through their rule changes of the past few years.
so… yeah. SOCIOLOGICAL ANALYSIS: OVER.
by hahasound on Oct 3, 2009 12:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As much as I love the Colts offense...
… history has shown that it’s defense that makes the difference. You see, offense gets you to the playoffs, but defense allows you to make a deep run and also pushes you over the top. Can anyone identify any Super Bowl team that had a weak defense? Our Colts came the closest, but the weakness was all in the regular season; the defense caught fire in the playoffs. And even in the regular season it was dominant in one category (passing yards allowed). It was hardly a weak defense; rather, it was a regular season disappointment that became incredible in the playoffs. So Indy doesn’t really count. But when you turn that question around, you can actually find one that had a relatively mediocre offense: The Ravens, Super Bowl 35. 13th in the league in scoring, 16th in total yards, and 23rd in passing yards. 5 regular season games where they didn’t score a touchdown. Only two of their 4 touchdowns in the Super Bowl came from the offense. And that Super Bowl set the record for the lowest amount of total combined yards gained (Source for all these Ravens stats).
Look, I wouldn’t trade the way these Colts play for anything. And I’d go further and say that the Colts are an exception to the rule, they’re a team that can go all the way on a strong offense and a “caretaker” defense (although with Freeny and Sanders, Indy’s D is hardly that). So my answer to the ESPN question would be like any other Hoosier’s: I’d rather have this great offense, not just any random one. But for any other team and any other point in NFL history, it’s clear what wins championships.
Manning is what makes Indiana so unique in this regard. If it weren’t for him, even our state would be saying what everybody else is.
by aldctjoc on Oct 3, 2009 12:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The thing with the Ravens in 2000
Is that they were a serious anomaly.
I forget where I saw it, but I remember a stat a year or two ago that stated if you average less than 21 points, the odds of you making the Super Bowl drop dramatically. If you can’t score points, it won’t really matter how great your defense is. It’s hard to keep teams in single digits in NFL games.
In fact, the Ravens this year are winning games because of their offense. If this were the same old Ravens offense we’ve seen for the past decade, they’d be 1-2 right now because of how many points their defense has allowed.
You need both to in any sport, but you need competent offense to make a great defense flourish. However, you only need a competent defense to go with a great offense to make a truly dangerous team.
Of the seven undefeated teams, the Saints and Colts have offensive reputations and for all intents and purposes are winning on offense, the Broncos are doing it with defense, the Ravens and Vikings have defensive reputations but are getting the job done on offense, and the Jets and Giants have a good defenses, but have required their offense to be competent in order to be where they are.
So four of the seven teams are doing work offensively before defensively and are 3-0 and two of the teams have required their offense to help the defense to be 3-0. Then of the seven undefeated teams, only one of them is truly doing it on defense right now. Sure their offense has scored points, but they haven’t needed them at all this year to be where they are. And go figure, they’re the one undefeated team no one believes in.
I’m surprised at the results to be honest, and wonder how many people who voted honestly feel that way, considering people love flashy and exciting things, and defense is rarely that.
by goodlucksaturday on Oct 3, 2009 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Football experts always say defense wins championships,
But it is a team sport right? I personally think that to make it to the playoffs, and win a championship it takes both. One game it might be the def. that clinches it, another game it might be the off. that makes the final winning play. Which comes first the egg or the chicken? Either way you win, in the NFL today, Offense does seem to sell the tickets for most teams. The map to me shows how we in Indy feel about Peyton and his offense. I guess He has us sold.
Since offense sells the tickets, you could argue that without a thrilling offense there wouldn’t be any games at all.
I know the Colts SuperBowl year we had a poor D for some of the time. What GOT us to the playoffs? There’s only one answer Peyton Manning. The D might have won us our Championship, but would we have even have had a shot at it without Peyton Manning and his offense?
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
by Indy Lori on Oct 3, 2009 7:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
first of all GO HAWKEYES today!
second…I love indiana blue like I like florida blue for real
third…everyone of those superbowl teams was lead by a very good qb if not great except one. baltimore
of course defense wins championships but YOU NEED A GREAT QB and in the end its who scores the most points who wins
NE would not have won without brady and those key recievers
the rams would not won without warners greatest show on turf
the steelers would not have won without big bens great key drives and superior recievers play
same with the giants…oh yeah it was that great offensive drive that won that game
denver had elway, those sure handed recievers and a guy named terrell davis
colts would not have won without peyton
oh and ps I LOVED THIS post
Which one does Peyton Manning play? I want that one.
the bucs vs raiders…that year must have been very sad when you look at who lead each team so throw out that game because nobody is impressed with anything about any of it that year
ask all the teams who dont have a great qb and they are losers mostly
to think you always have a chance to win at the end no matter how far you are behind and I mean every game…yeah give me a great offense
by kinnickcolt on Oct 3, 2009 7:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The only thing this map really shows is:
In Indiana, we love us some Peyton!
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
by Indy Lori on Oct 3, 2009 7:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
offense or defense
Could it be that a defense looks really good because the opponents offense is so poor.
Or an offense is good because the opponents defense is poor.
by pearly on Oct 3, 2009 10:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've always wondered that myself.
Sometimes you just can’t tell. Unless you’re a football genius like Peyton, I’ll bet he knows the answer to that.
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
by Indy Lori on Oct 3, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW-
BBS, thanks for giving me credit for this, I fell like I’m starting to really belong around here.
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
by Indy Lori on Oct 3, 2009 2:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh, you do.
Just ask peytonsthebest (otherwise known as your clone).
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: The Atlanta Falcons are the only NFL team to never have back-to-back winning seasons in franchise history.
by Cassieper on Oct 3, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
we’re lucky that there isn’t a rule banning dorks…at least for me, that is.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Oct 3, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mind being a dork as long it's a Colts loving kind of dork,
I prefer to think of myself as “quirky”. LOL
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
by Indy Lori on Oct 3, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's that speech Sally Field gave at the Oscars? OH yeah,
“You like me, you really like me!” BTW-you’re one of my favs around here. Smart and Smart-elecky, all at the same time.
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
by Indy Lori on Oct 3, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks :-)
My family knows my sarcastic wit very well. I’ve perfected the art on them. Bobman (Bob M on 18to88) is still the wittiest person I’ve ever seen/read though. He’s out of my league.
It’s nice to also be known as smart, I guess. I assume that’s somewhat important…….maybe.
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is what happens when college students get bored.
by Cassieper on Oct 3, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ravens vs. Giants = idiot arguement
The Ravens and Giants had two of the top 5 defenses in football that year. Ironically, it was the Ravens OFFENSE that won them that game….as they were the ones scoring points to the tune of 30+pts..
Defense CAN win you championships….but the defense didnt win the SB for the Steelers last year. Their OFFENSE won it..
Or wasnt that the Steelers offense scoring the final points of the game? Sure, the defense prevented the other team from scoring….but this is a game where the Steelers defense got owned most of it….
What happened to the vaunted Bears defense in SB 41??? They fell apart because their own offense couldnt do anything..
by DevilsReject on Oct 3, 2009 7:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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