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Ask Pats Pulpit

Here we are, yet again, with another mid-season matchup between the ultimate rivals, Indianapolis and New England.  The 6-2 Patriots roll into The Lube, fresh off a nice win against Miami, to take on the undefeated Colts.  This has all the makings of some seriously stupid media attention.  Is the returning Tom Brady ready to take on the Horse?  Can Peyton Manning, who's playing some of the best football of his career, lead his team to another W, keeping that zero in the loss column?

At any rate, I'm here to talk Patriots football and answer any questions you may have.  Your fearless leader is back over at Pats Pulpit doing the same.  And we'll have more surprises in store for you this week.  You old timers can keep a secret, right?

Fire away.

 

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This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors.

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How good is your OL this season? and i just saw one of the first games of the pats and noticed that Brady was a lil too much worried about being hit and was rush easily, how is his confidence right now? knowing that Freeney and Mathis are having a good season

by thebossuzzi on Nov 11, 2009 7:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Sebastian Vollmer

Vollmer has been a surprise talent in the OL and has been taking over for the injured Matt Light. Overall, I’m happy with the OL, but I’d like to see some better run blocking so we can open up a ground game.

Freeney and Mathis are always a problem for us. I suspect Freeney will be double teamed a lot at the line OR we’ll keep a back around during some longer pass plays. Welker is an obvious target for the quick underneath stuff.

Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Nov 11, 2009 7:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The OL...

…I’m expecting a 6 OL set, with the additional 6th OL checking in at TE. Mark Levoir will step in and help whichever lineman needs the help on the play. Anything to keep Brady standing in the backfield and keep the pocket to let plays develop. Our O-Line thrives on giving Brady time to let the receivers get open. If there is enough protection in the backfield, expect receivers to go on deep routes and for a lot of big plays to happen.

That being said, he hasn’t really been touched much this year. I don’t expect as much success as he’s had, but I am expecting a maximum of 3 sacks and limited backfield disruption.

by The Hill on Nov 11, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Injuries

What’s going on with Fred Taylor and Sammy Morris? Are they going to play or are they out? Is it going to be a Maroney & Green-Ellis day?

Who has emerged as the third best receiver for the Pats this year behind Welker and Moss?

"Brett Favre was a man who thought he was retired, but he knew it wouldn't last."

by Colts Homer on Nov 11, 2009 7:25 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Injuries

Taylor had ankle surgery and will be out for most of the season with a glimmer of hope he returns in December. Sammy Morris has reportedly been seen “in the weight room” by the media, but that could mean anything; the Pats are notoriously bad at sharing injury data.

I believe Belichick has been beating up on the OL to create more holes for Maroney. Laurence had a 20 carry 82 yard game which is promising. BenJarvus Green-Ellis will definitely be in the mix as well as third down specialist, Kevin Faulk.

Julian Edelman was making a play for the third receiver spot when he broke his forearm a few games back. Sam Aiken is doing ok, but I’d say Brady has been spreading the ball around and using TE Benjamin Watson very well.

Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Nov 11, 2009 7:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Aiken is underrated.

He’s smart. He may not throw up the stats, but he catches what’s thrown at him and forces the secondary to respect his skills as a receiver. Also, against the young Phins secondary, he drew a couple pass interference calls because he out-experienced them. I can see him doing that once or twice this game as well.

by The Hill on Nov 11, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Also

Rec this, people. Get it at the top so people will be able to see it.

"Brett Favre was a man who thought he was retired, but he knew it wouldn't last."

by Colts Homer on Nov 11, 2009 7:25 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Now that Rodney Harrison has finally retired,

who’s going to cover Dallas Clark? He’s currently on pace for the best season ever by a TE.

Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.

Man, I need a life...

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is my dad's favorite scene from one of my all-time favorite shows. Full of win, IMO.

by Cassieper on Nov 11, 2009 7:29 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

and don't say McGowan

he will get picked on.

As long as we have Peyton we will always have a chance to win.

by skywalker on Nov 11, 2009 7:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rodney just said McGowan

on ESPN.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Nov 11, 2009 7:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

make that Bruschi

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Nov 11, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

McGowan's good

He was a surprise from the start. At training camp and during preseason, I kept wondering who number 30 was because he was always around the ball. Clark needs to be respected, don’t get me wrong, but I wouldn’t count McGowan out.

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Nov 11, 2009 7:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

McGowan is good.

Don’t underestimate him. He may not be as good of a cover safety, but he will smother Clark and disrupt his timing with Manning. He also hits like a truck. He’s shut down Tony Gonzales, limited Todd Heap and Tony Scheffler, and completely eliminated Kellen Winslow (albeit, he’s on the Bucs). He’s very good at doing what he does.

by The Hill on Nov 11, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rodney Harrison on SNF said a safety would cover Dallas, unlike last Sunday,

when it was a line backer. I see Collie and Garcon coming up big.

"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
"As I grow older, the list of people who can kiss my ass grows longer"-Ancient Hoosier Proverb.

by Indy Lori on Nov 11, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The injury report is up on the front page

what’s the status of all the key guys that missed practice today.

Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.

by shake n bake on Nov 11, 2009 7:36 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

In other words,

can someone please cut through Belichick’s crap for us?

Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.

Man, I need a life...

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is my dad's favorite scene from one of my all-time favorite shows. Full of win, IMO.

by Cassieper on Nov 11, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You're guess is as good as mine

It’s like trying to interpret sanskrit sometimes.

Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Nov 11, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wish I knew, shake

I don’t really pay too much attention to the Patriots injury report until Friday-ish. It’s something Belichick plays with on a regular basis.

Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Nov 11, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's never a lie, but never the whole truth.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 12, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That sounds like something you may

read on a fortune cookie.

Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.

Man, I need a life...

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is my dad's favorite scene from one of my all-time favorite shows. Full of win, IMO.

by Cassieper on Nov 12, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Confucious say a whole lot of stuff that Confucious never say.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 12, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Secondary / LB and new faces

A drunken pats fan raved about how the new pats secondary is athletic and awesome this year and that the pats have never matched up better. Looking over the roster, I was surprised by how few names I recognized and, as a true colts fan, I would never voluntarily watch a pats game.

Could you introduce some of your new key defensive players and talk about how they have been playing?

by sandsnake on Nov 11, 2009 7:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

that came out douchier than I intended. It was on another site, the guy admitted he was drunk, and i’m just trying to figure if what he said was relatively true or not.

by sandsnake on Nov 11, 2009 7:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Secondary

I wouldn’t say they’re awesome. Young and talented, but lacking reps. I’m a big fan of Brandon Meriweather this year; he’s hitting hard and making plays. New veteran CB Leigh Bodden seems to be in the mix quite a bit and is doing a good job of covering receivers. Overall, I’d like to see a bit more aggressiveness from the guys as I sometimes think they leave too much cushion (bend but don’t break).

I think Wayne, Garcon, and Clarke will give them quite a game.

Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Nov 11, 2009 7:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

drunk or sober, it's a no-brainer to see that it wouldn't take much

for the Pats’ secondary to be more “athletic and awesome” than it was last year. But that doesn’t say much either.

Butler is a terrific pick and has made some big plays, but he’s still a rookie. Springs and Bodden have been an improvement over what we had too. Wilhite is just coming back from some kind of intestinal bug that kept him from playing Sunday. The jury is still out on Wheatley. At least we have some guys capable of making plays this year.

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Nov 11, 2009 7:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

thanks guys.

At the very least, you have some nice depth, which we would obviously kill for!

by sandsnake on Nov 11, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

sandsnake

was that JC?
just curious.

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Nov 12, 2009 2:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Here they are:

Brandon Meriweather: He’s our best player in the secondary. He has a nose for making the play. He’s not yet at Ed Reed/Darren Sharper/Troy Palamalu level, but he’s getting better every game. He stops plays and rarely gets fooled.
Brandon McGowan: He’s gets the TEs. He steps up to stop the run and could be considered a S/LB (but moreso a Safety). He gets his job done. He won’t gain any accolades like any of the better Safeties, but he’ll get the job done.
Leigh Bodden: He can cover players and can knock down passes. He’s doing as well as we could have hoped, but he can still do better. He’s a definite upgrade from Ellis Hobbes because he doesn’t give up the big play. He’ll probably be covering Reggie Wayne, with Meriweather close behind.
Darius Butler: He’s the athletic one with a TON of promise. He’s been getting a lot of play time lately on the #2 receiver so expect him on Garcon or Collie. He is still learning, but he’s shown advancement every week. He can keep up with anyone he covers, it’s just a matter of if he can get to the ball, which he’s been getting better at every week.
Pat Chung: He’s more of a “change of pace” safety. He’s utilized more on blitzes and getting the big hits. He’s still a rookie so his place is still being defined.
Shawn Springs: He’s the Nickel Corner and will cover the #3 some of the time. He’ll split time with Wilhite. He gets the job done without being flashy.
Jonathan Wilhite: He’ll do the same as Springs, but he has more trouble of finishing tackles.
Terrence Wheatley: Basically demoted to return man only and depth.

by The Hill on Nov 11, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Game plan / philosophy

Do you anticipate the Pats coming out with any trickeration, or will it be more traditional. And by traditional, I expect Welker-Welker-Faulk-Mooooosssssss-Welker-Welker-Faulk-Mooooossss… you get the point.

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Nov 11, 2009 8:07 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Not enought O's in your Moooooooooooooooooossssssssssssssss there.

Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.

Man, I need a life...

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is my dad's favorite scene from one of my all-time favorite shows. Full of win, IMO.

by Cassieper on Nov 11, 2009 8:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Someone get me an edit button!

Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.

Man, I need a life...

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is my dad's favorite scene from one of my all-time favorite shows. Full of win, IMO.

by Cassieper on Nov 11, 2009 8:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Trickeration

I expect the Pats to re-introduce TE Benjamin Watson to Indy. Almost cut this pre-season, he’s my favorite secret weapon. Belichick sneaks him in every now and again and he’s clutch. Think end of the MNF season opener with Buffalo; Watson was at the receiving end of the 2 Brady TD passes that won the game.

Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Nov 11, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If Freeney is giving us fits, Watson will be a natural.

He may be in to double Freeney, he may go out on a route. Still he will need to be accounted for.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 12, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Brady seems to have turned the ball over more in recent weeks.

He’s been very productive, yet he’s throw 3 picks in the last two games after having only 2 through the first 6 games. I only bring this up b/c it was against the Bucs and the Dolphins, whose secondaries are suspect. Is this of concern to Pats fans or are the picks more of a fluke? Also, do you expect the Pats to try and blitz Manning like they did in 2006 and make the Colts receivers beat them or do you expect them to play more zone like last year and make Manning have long drives?

"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning

by P0RKINS2 on Nov 11, 2009 8:29 PM EST via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Brady to Moss

I think those interceptions were the result of Brady forcing it to Moss. In the Bucs game, I could accept it because it was a blowout and he was just tossing it up there to see what happens. In the Dolphins game, I think Moss was covered very well be rookie Vontae Davis.

I think blitzing Manning can be dangerous; he has one of the quickest releases in the game and can easily get it to Dallas Clark in a hurry. I think it will ultimately be “bend but don’t break” zone coverage schemes.

Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Nov 11, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's why I always so that the way to containing the Pats is easy

By contain, I mean hold them in the 20’s.

Double Moss, pressure Brady. Now, since we have Freeney and Mathis, that part is easier, since we don’t have to blitz. Brady can have a field day with Welker, but he looks to Moss all the time deep in the red zone. Also, Brady seems to get impatient, and will throw deep to a well-covered Moss.

EVH+DLR=BFFr........ God I Hope So!!

by dmstorm22 on Nov 11, 2009 9:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Meh.

Nothing is easy when it comes to play with the Pats. Hoodie is a freakin’ savant. Low on the social skills, way high on the footbal knowledge.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Nov 11, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying it will shut them down

but you cut off all their explosiveness. This is what teams were doing at the end of 2007. Then, in the super bowl, they doubled Moss, got insane pressure on Brady, and played deeper zones than normal to cutt off the now-more deeper Welker routes.

EVH+DLR=BFFr........ God I Hope So!!

by dmstorm22 on Nov 11, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In 2007,

We really stopped utilizing our TEs because we were so intent in getting plays to our WRs. Brady’s been doing a better job of NOT relying on only Moss. We’ve been doing a better job of having outlet players who can play underneath and gain the yardage needed.

by The Hill on Nov 11, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's all true

Mostly because they don’t have all the weapons they had in 07. if I could throw to Stallworth and Gaffney, or Watson, I would pick the former.

However, they may be able to sustain more drives and have more outlets, but they just are not as explosive if you take Moss away. For some reason, Miami sngled Moss last week, but the smart teams that double Moss can cap the explosiveness of the team. New England can still drive up and down the field, but I don’t see them throwing up huge games in the 40’s with regularity lke in 2007.
This year, outside of the Titans game, where the Titans absolutely quit, the Pats offense has yet to put up 30 points in any game.

EVH+DLR=BFFr........ God I Hope So!!

by dmstorm22 on Nov 11, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In '08....

The Colts’ offense only broke 30 points for the second time in week 11. Wait for Brady to get in his groove. The Pats have been finding their offense since the beginning of the year and they’re still doing that.

This Pats team isn’t the 2007 team- no team will ever be. This Pats team is much more balanced and will be much better later in the season.

by The Hill on Nov 11, 2009 11:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Colts in '08 we're never that great of an offense

People consider the Pats and Brady to be “back” close to 2007 form. I say nowhere near.

I thought it was very telling that in a game where the Pats were “extra-motivated” by Joey Porter’s comments, they only put up 27. They still are one of the top 5 or so offenses, but I think they are much, much more containable than the 07 bunch. Considering we have a very good offense as well, all we need to do is contain the Pats to win.

EVH+DLR=BFFr........ God I Hope So!!

by dmstorm22 on Nov 11, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course they're more containable...

…that was exploited in the second half of ’07. The team is putting up second half of ’07 numbers. The most important thing is that our defense is playing better than it has since the super bowl years. Our ’09 defense is on par with our ’07 defense, but is muuuuuuch younger and getting better.

I’d say both our offense and our defense is a push. It’ll come down to which team makes the least mistakes and who capitalizes on those mistakes made.

by The Hill on Nov 11, 2009 11:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree completely with your last paragraph

We both have very similar teams. Explosive offenses led by staggeringly-good QBs. Defenses that are great at keeping foes out of the endzone, and are generally underrated by the public.

Home-field does matter (at least in our playoff meetings), so I would still have to pick the Colts. Since I’m a Colts fan, if the game was in Foxboro, I would still pick the Colts, but be much, much more nervous heading into the game.

EVH+DLR=BFFr........ God I Hope So!!

by dmstorm22 on Nov 11, 2009 11:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey MaPatsFan, how are ya?

which is the Colts player you respect the most and that you would even like to see in a Pats uniform?

"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha...OK" - Tom Brady

by Piojocuau on Nov 11, 2009 8:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Most respected Colts player

The easy answer is Manning. No, I don’t hate the man. I’d be stupid to not recognize his talent. However, I’m going to go with Dallas Clark. Love the guy. Fast, big, great hands. He’s a heck of a weapon.

Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Nov 11, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm...

…Dwight Freeney. He’s the player we would most be able to use on our team. There are numerous players (Manning, Clark, Wayne, Saturday, Mathis, Sanders) who would be great on our team, but there isn’t as pressing need for any of those. Brady is just as good as Manning (he’s still getting his groove on), Watson has the potential to be just as productive as Clark (we just use Welker more and we send our RBs out to the sidelines on some plays to create mismatches and make plays), Wayne would be a #2 and underutilized, our O-Line is solid and our secondary is promising and Sanders is too often injured. Mathis is good, but Freeney is incredible.

by The Hill on Nov 11, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Comparing Clark to Watson

is totally blaspehmous.

There is a reason many Pats fans gave Ben the name Ben “stonehands” Watson.

EVH+DLR=BFFr........ God I Hope So!!

by dmstorm22 on Nov 11, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

for serious

Watson was on the team for 3 years before Moss and Welker got there and his best season was 49 for 643 and 3 TDs. Clark has more receptions, yards and as many TDs through 8 games this season.

Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.

by shake n bake on Nov 11, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If he wasn't a smart, mostly level-headed, inteligent poster

that is the work that gets one banned.

EVH+DLR=BFFr........ God I Hope So!!

by dmstorm22 on Nov 11, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You forget...

…Brady, at that point, never put up Manning-like numbers. Watson was the one drawing all the coverage because the top receiver was Reche Caldwell. Caldwell wouldn’t even be on either of our team’s rosters. Watson had about 1/5 of receiving yards, being covered as the #1 receiving threat. Clark is getting 1/3 in the Witten position: The TE who only has to face the safety so he puts up excellent numbers.

I’m positive Watson will never up Clark numbers, (Clark is having a season for the ages), but he still is a viable receiving threat and makes the plays when it’s asked of him.

by The Hill on Nov 11, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that last sentence is a far more reasonable position

when a guy is on pace for the biggest season ever at his position and someone says guy x who has never even produced at half that level could do it too, people are going to call BS

Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.

by shake n bake on Nov 11, 2009 10:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ben Watson...

…was completely taken out of the Offense last year with Cassel at the helm. In ‘05 and ’06 he was just as effective as Clark. In ’07 we started using him less, as I’ve said, in order to use Moss and Welker (remember, prior to ‘07, we had trailer trash in the receiver position.). This year, he’s going to re-emerge, but he’ll still have less productivity than in ‘05 and ’06 due to us actually having receivers now. He’s already on path to have his best season yet. It may not as flashy as Clark, but you need to remember that we have Moss (= to Wayne) and Welker who get passes too.

by The Hill on Nov 11, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

in '05 and '06 Watson was competing for targets with Branch, Givens and Troy Brown

while Clark was losing targets to Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne and Brandon Stokley. It’s no comparison.

Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.

by shake n bake on Nov 11, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

plus in 05 Clark was producing far more effiecently

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te2005

Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.

by shake n bake on Nov 11, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's my point.

In ’05 and ’06, Watson WAS our #1/2 receiver.

’06:
Caldwell- 760 yards
Watson- 643 yards
Brown- 384 yards

See? The secondary didn’t have to worry about any other receivers so they were able to put whichever player they wanted to defend him. I wasn’t comparing Watson’s ‘05 and ’06 seasons to Clark’s respective seasons. I was just saying that he was productive while still being covered by opposing teams top secondary players.

Clark can play like Witten. Witten and Clark are going to have #2 receiver type numbers because there are other receivers on the team who still have to be respected by CBs. Watson won’t put up those numbers because Welker puts up those #2 receiver numbers.

by The Hill on Nov 11, 2009 10:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You can't have it both ways

So, in ‘07, when Brady has Moss, Welker, Stallworth and Gaffney to direct much of the secondary’s attention, he put up 36 catches for 389 yards and 6 tds.

In ’05, with Manning having Harrison, Wayne, Stokley (and even Pollard who was the starter in ’04) to direct the secondaries attention, Clark put up 37 catches for 488 yards and 4 tds.

Then, in ’05, when he was competing with the Brown/Branch/Givens types Watson, who would be a person who the defense would “put whatever player they wanted to defend him” he had 29 catches, 441 yards and 4 tds.

For Clark, I won’t use this year, as this is insane what he is doing, I will use 2007, when Wayne was the only stable WR, as Marvin got hurt, a rookie Anthony Gonzalez was our only other reliable receiver, and he too spent some time on the injury list. Remember, that year Aaron Moorehead was our slot receiver for a long period. Clark had 58 catches for 616 yards and 11 tds.

Either way you look at it, whether Clark and Watson were one of the top targets or complementary pieces in all-time great passing attacks, Clark was the better performer.

EVH+DLR=BFFr........ God I Hope So!!

by dmstorm22 on Nov 11, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay...

…I would say that ’07 Watson and ’05 Clark are equal? 100 yards vs 2 extra touchdowns. Also, none of the ’05 Colts receivers would be able to touch the ’07 Moss- that was just unreal.

You need to realize that the ‘05 and ’07 Manning put up similar numbers. The ’05 Patriots were much more rushing based so you can’t really even compare the ‘05 Pats to the ’07 Pats. If you match Watson’s ‘05 rate with Brady’s ‘07 stats, then Watson’s stats would match Clark’s ’07 stats, maybe with less touchdowns, but that was because we had Corey Dillon for red zone TDs.

Basically: Pats in ‘05 were much more rush based. Give Watson the ’07 pass oriented offense and make him one of the main targets, he’ll match Clark’s ’07 pass oriented numbers.

by The Hill on Nov 11, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How about this...

…Watson has never been required to be a #2 threat in a pass oriented offense so he never has had the chance to try and match Clark’s numbers, nor will he ever really get the chance. So we’ll never see because Watson has a different role on our offense than Clark’s role on yours.

by The Hill on Nov 11, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

"Watson has the potential to be just as productive as Clark"

was taken as he could put up the production Clark is currently doing. I don’t think anyone doubts he could put up totals equal to what Clark did before this year (though I doubt he could match it in actually efficiency, but I’d have to look at Watson’s FO stats more) because he has in the past.

Do you think that Watson could put up 60 catchs for over 700 yards in half a season? That’s what this is about.

Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.

by shake n bake on Nov 11, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm...

Let Watson be the #2 receiver with a fully healthy Tom Brady throwing the ball, with Moss opposite, and let the Patriots play the same teams the Colts played thus far? I’ll be a rebel/homer and say, I absolutely believe that Watson could if given that opportunity.

But he won’t ever, and I hope he won’t ever.

I’ll also say that there’s no way Clark keeps up this productivity level. He’ll finish the season with 90 catches (max) and 1100 yards. I believe that Watson could reach the 80 catch and 1000 yard plateau if given the chance. I’d put that on Clark level.

by The Hill on Nov 11, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Somehow

Watson has an insanely high DVOA this year. However, in the past, he was below a 0 in both 2006 and 2008. And also a below replacement level DYAR in those years.

Clark has been above 0 in bothe DVOA and DYAR, and had a historically higher catch rate.

EVH+DLR=BFFr........ God I Hope So!!

by dmstorm22 on Nov 12, 2009 12:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well,

I don’t think I should bother re-explaining why Clark has a much high value than Watson- he’s just much more integrated into the offense. At this point, Watson is more of a luxury than a need in comparison to what other teams have on offense.

2008 should count, due to Cassel not utilizing TEs at all. 2007 should be where he is based because that is his current value to the team- that’s how he’ll be playing. He’s a top 10 TE with the role he has. Clark is a top 5 TE with his role. Put Watson in Clark’s role and I believe Watson could be a top 5 TE as well.

His numbers in 2006 are low because of his reception percentage- it was abysmal. But as I said, that’s not entirely his fault because he was being well covered that year. Go back to his 2005 year, his sophomore year, he’s #11.

2005: Watson is #11 and has a successful sophomore year in a run based offense.
2006: Watson is deemed an offensive threat and now has even fewer receiving weapons and becomes the #2 on the team (with Reche Caldwell at #1, so basically we had no receivers). He gets well covered and his numbers drop. He still posted 13.1 yds/c
2007: He gets his role on the offense, with weapons around him. He’s a top 10 TE (ranked 7/8) and performs well.
2008: Cassel at QB. No TEs used.
2009: He was underutilized early and now is getting a bigger role in the offense. His numbers will start growing as he gets used more. He’s being rated as a top 5 TE.

Clark fluctuates just as much. He was top 5 last year, but floated in the 20s between 2005 and 2008. Before ’05, he was a top 15 TE. I would say that both TEs are comparable if you want to use those stats.

Regardless, I’ll say that both do their job in their offense and both are extremely good at what’s asked of them. Clark’s just asked to do more. And I believe that Watson would be able to do that more, if asked.

by The Hill on Nov 12, 2009 12:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

`i didn't take the time to read this whole post but they

both do do there jobs in there offenses and i think the big diffrence is the offense they run are dif. and the coaching of them is def. in those offenses and are utilized diff.

i do think that clark is better but i dont think you can necessarily hold ther numbers to which is better. at least not as much as other positions. the reason is because dif. teams offensive schemes determine there states to a large point. but what you can look at is the type of player, there atributes, and those intangibles of there game. although you look at the numbers they are not the whole equation.

to me clark is a more rounded TE but that may just be me

GO COLTS!!! 09 IS OURS!!!

by ANGELSFAITH on Nov 12, 2009 1:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Randy Moss

How has Randy been playing this year? Every year I keep waiting for him to hit the Madden wall, you know, that year when there haven’t been any injuries, but Madden decides that once Randy Moss hits age X, he drops 4 in speed and acceleration. Today’s real world example of this effect is TO.

Obviously madden is not real life, but I am wondering if Moss’s skills have declined at all since 2007/2008?

Sorry, I have a lot of questions! Thanks for answering them.

by sandsnake on Nov 11, 2009 8:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Randy Moss

I’ve seen Randy Moss grow this year. His 70 something yard TD against Miami (the awesome stiff arm to Vontae Davis) was on a crossing route which, a few years ago, may not have been the best part of his repertoire. He was a downfield, sideline guy for so long that it’s cool to see him turn inside. Without the new “Welker” rule (think Steelers’ Ryan Clarke hammering the little guy), I’d be anxious, but there’s more protection, for better or for worse, for lanky guys like Randy to go inside.

Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Nov 11, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Randy Moss

Has been used more inside this year instead of just going down field every play. In ‘07, we only used him to play the deep route every single time. Now that he’s going inside, outside and everywhere, he’s a much more dangerous weapon. Of course, that means more damage to Randy, but he does a good job of making the catch and getting to the ground.

by The Hill on Nov 11, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Randy ran inside routes early in his career in Minnesota

He was a more complete receiver when he started because Cris Carter was #1. When they saw how he stretched the field, he got pigeon-holed as a sideline guy. He had a Welker-like route last year that ended in a touchdown. He said he’d been begging them for a year to try it. Randy’s having fun now.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 12, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So, MPF

we all know Brady is back. Not surprising the way the season has gone for you all, considering the surgery and all – as we have experience with that.

What do you think is the key to the Colts winning this game? The key matchup, for instance.

If a safety is covering Dallas, does that make you nervous considering that leaves someone (Wayne, Collie or Garcon) in man coverage?

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Nov 11, 2009 10:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

The Key matchup...

…is how your D-Line disrupts the pocket. Mathis and Freeney vs Vollmer and Kazcur (and I’m assuming Levoir will be helping out often). If you can get pressure in the backfield consistently, our plays can’t develop and our offense will consistently stall.

I’m also pretty sure that McGowan will be covering Clark. That leaves Meriweather and Bodden on Wayne, Bulter on Collie and Springs/Wilhite on Garcon. I’m confident in all of those match-ups. My main worry isn’t in our covering, but in how much pressure we can apply on Manning. With all those players devoted to our secondary, we will have limited players on pass rush duty. I’d expect Warren, Wilfork on the Ends (yes, Wilfork on the end in pass rush situations) and Wright in the middle, with Tully Banta-Cain on the rush, Mayo in the middle watching for Addai and the possible QB run, and the re-emerged AD on the other side. Hopefully, that will work!

by The Hill on Nov 11, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You think McGowan can single-cover Clark?

I think you’re underestimating how good Clark is (especially this season). The last time teams tried to single-cover Clark, he torched him (Miami, Arizona, 49ers).

Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.

Man, I need a life...

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is my dad's favorite scene from one of my all-time favorite shows. Full of win, IMO.

by Cassieper on Nov 12, 2009 7:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He won't be able to stop Clark...

…because unless you throw a top level CB on Clark, he won’t be stopped. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a CB on Clark on a lot of the plays, but I feel like McGowan will be asked to do that. He’s done very well with top level TEs this whole year. I think Clark’s line will be:
6 Catchs, 50 yards, 1 TD. If that’s all Clark gets, I’ll be happy with McGowan’s performance because that means we can have our true CBs on the WR to limit their production.

So, no. McGowan won’t stop Clark. He’ll just limit him, and that’s as good as it can get without sacrificing our secondary.

However, Hoodie usually organizes his defense to eliminate the most important player on the opposing team’s offense. Is that player going to be Reggie Wayne or Dallas Clark?

by The Hill on Nov 12, 2009 9:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

where ever manning sees the weekness early.

i think garcon will be given some deep throws he is our best deep threat probably just cause he has the speed and such to get the seperation. and brown should make an impact in this game i think

GO COLTS!!! 09 IS OURS!!!

by ANGELSFAITH on Nov 12, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Talent & Needs

With the amazing offseason turnover on that side of the ball who do you think is the best player and who you think is the most important component? What position do you think is needing to be addressed later either via free agency or draft? Who would you want to get to fill said position?

by Sanders_fan89 on Nov 11, 2009 11:51 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

On "that side of the ball"

I’m going to assume you meant defense. Meriweather has exceeded expectations, but Mayo is our stud and most important defensive player, without a doubt. I think we’ll address our OLB to give us LB depth and strength our 3-4 defense in the draft, as well as pick up a strong pass rush DE in the first round. I have no idea who they’ll pick because I really haven’t had my eyes on college ball.

That being said, I reeeeeaaaaally hope the Patriots get CJ Spiller for the offensive side of the ball. That kid can play and I think he’d be perfect for a RB stable of CJ/LoMo/BJGE/Faulk. I see Taylor and Morris not being around in the near future.

by The Hill on Nov 12, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes I did

Sorry about that. My organic chem test has my thoughts all scattered.

by Sanders_fan89 on Nov 12, 2009 12:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

To not get you all off-track,

If you were a carbon molecule AND an NFL fan of some random NFC team who had to buy either a Colts or Pats jersey for this game, which one would you buy?

(that was the bonus question on your exam, right?)

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Nov 12, 2009 2:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's an unfair question...

…clearly Carbon © will go for the Colts. There are no players with the number 6, so that means he’ll have to go for one of his Isotopes and the only stable ones are 12 and 13. Unfortunately, there are no players with the number 13, meaning that if I were a carbon molecule ©, I would buy a Colt’s jersey of Jim Sorgi, Number 12. C12.

by The Hill on Nov 12, 2009 9:35 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That was frighteningly scientific

Isn’t there some sort of entropy law that would converge on 18?

/knows NOTHING about chemistry

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Nov 12, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And it shows.

Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.

Man, I need a life...

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is my dad's favorite scene from one of my all-time favorite shows. Full of win, IMO.

by Cassieper on Nov 12, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

pfptptphfpfphtphtphfpfhftt

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Nov 12, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ew.

Now I need a towel.

Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.

Man, I need a life...

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is my dad's favorite scene from one of my all-time favorite shows. Full of win, IMO.

by Cassieper on Nov 12, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Entropy

Is the change from ordered to disorder or vice versa in a reaction, so I guess you could make that argument.

by Sanders_fan89 on Nov 12, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So if you ordered the jersey, then cancelled it, it would be a disorder?

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 12, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow...you can hijack Colts' threads too

Now if only you could infiltrate the Colts’ huddle…

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Nov 12, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll be at the game dressed as Dallas Clark

Dallas Clark will be in the closet dressed as a roll of duct tape. But don’t tell anyone. Shhhhh.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 12, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and I'm going to grease my gloves, too.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 12, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's OK.

He’s just saving us the trouble of hi-jacking our own threads. You’d be surprised how often that happens around here.

Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.

Man, I need a life...

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is my dad's favorite scene from one of my all-time favorite shows. Full of win, IMO.

by Cassieper on Nov 12, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

un-rec'd for poor punning

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Nov 12, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

actually it was pretty good

but you can’t discourage this behavior enough

/cone of silence

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Nov 12, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Poor Marima, she suffers so.

I can write all my puns here in the invisible font if you want:
<\invisible>

What do you think of that one?

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 12, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That was your best one yet!

Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.

Man, I need a life...

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is my dad's favorite scene from one of my all-time favorite shows. Full of win, IMO.

by Cassieper on Nov 12, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Pats have a few choices for elements:

P – Phosphorus #15 – burns up, probably not the best choice
Pa – Protactinium #91 – radio-active and unstable (like having TO on your team)

Pt – Platinum #78 (Bruce Armstrong, T, jersey retired), color is perfect.

The Pats are Platinum!

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 12, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh no,

Then there’s this:

Platinum-cobalt alloys have magnetic properties.

Is that why these teams have been meeting so often?

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 12, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow.

I actually found someone who has as much free time as me. Didn’t think it would happen.

Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.

Man, I need a life...

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is my dad's favorite scene from one of my all-time favorite shows. Full of win, IMO.

by Cassieper on Nov 12, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Won't be surprised if I read somewhere

that coincidentally the Boston and Indianapolis productivity ratings took a huge hit this week. Who can concentrate on anything???

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Nov 12, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

^^this

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Nov 12, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

don't forget those of us in California

ptb, ANGELSFAITH and I account for a visible percentage of the GDP around here, I’m sure of it!

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Nov 12, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and I'm keeping the numbers down in the Land of 10,000 Lakes

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 12, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

They really just stopped counting at 10,000. (Ran out of toes.)

Pretty much any piece of land up here will hold water. If you need a lake, I’ll ship you one (postage due), mosquitoes and all. I’m that kind of guy.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 12, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, if we weren't enemies, we might be, gulp, friends.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 12, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hehe.....

Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.

Man, I need a life...

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is my dad's favorite scene from one of my all-time favorite shows. Full of win, IMO.

by Cassieper on Nov 12, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And why their fans repel each other

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Nov 14, 2009 12:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If the Colts had an element I would say Cobalt since it's Co

It’s average atomic weight is 58 so one could get a Gary Brackett jersey. Not to shabby an analysis if I do say so myself.

by Sanders_fan89 on Nov 12, 2009 11:16 AM EST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Strangely enough

My prof is a huge football fan and the question was about a cowboys jersy but it was about the polymer the jersey was made of and how to synthesize said polymer.

by Sanders_fan89 on Nov 12, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If he's a Cowboys fan,

you must make fun of him for having bad taste in teams.

Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.

Man, I need a life...

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is my dad's favorite scene from one of my all-time favorite shows. Full of win, IMO.

by Cassieper on Nov 12, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You can't blame him, after all it's America's team.

Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha. I know people that actually believe that.

My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.

by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 12, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's sad, really.

Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.

Man, I need a life...

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is my dad's favorite scene from one of my all-time favorite shows. Full of win, IMO.

by Cassieper on Nov 12, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Looks like we're all brothers under the jerseys after all

Colts and Pats fan agree finally—Dallas sucks and their fans are worse! Cass, let us know if you get a bad grade—we’d be happy to retaliate on your behalf—have your prof dress as a cowboy and he’ll wake up the next morning in his car trunk, to steal an excellent phrase from above, dressed as a roll of duct tape. Oh, and that car will have just been sold via eBay for $5 to a buyer in Sri Lanka… a loooong slow shipping time for hom to consider the evils of his ways.

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Nov 14, 2009 12:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs


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