I mean, I can’t say enough about Reggie Wayne,’’ Belichick said. "That guy is the best receiver we cover every year and it seems like he just keeps getting better. I thought the routes he ran and the catches he made were nothing short of spectacular, with the go route, the two touchdown catches, the third-down conversion on the corner route in front of our bench. He’s a tremendous receiver and he had some production against us.’’
Bill Belichick on Reggie Wayne, who is better than Randy Moss, in my not-so-humble opinion.
about 2 years ago
Brad Wells
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Bill and I have something in common.
We both can’t say enough about Reggie Wayne!
by Ayrshire on Nov 19, 2009 9:30 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Jerry Rice will talk to FIrstTake
this morning about who’s the best receiver right now in the NFL between Moss, Wayne, A. Johnson, and Ocho cinco. Damn, I hate that I won’t be able to see it.
Peyton Manning makes it Wayne on them hoes!!!!
by KMR24 on Nov 19, 2009 9:44 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
is ochocinco
really in the debate?
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha...OK" - Tom Brady
by BlueMark1821 on Nov 19, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
when he's good he's great
40% of the time you can include him in the debate. I doubt anyone thinks he’s better than any of the others listed. Fitz should be in the discussion too. (AFC debate?)
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by JustAJ on Nov 19, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Crap.
This means I have to watch ESPN. Isn’t Skip Bayless on that show?
Forget it. Not worth it. I’ll just read about it later.
Jerry Rice never really struck me as objective or smart though, come to think of it. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he made some completely ridiculous choice. Or if he just took the safe route and chose Moss.
You’d think he’d favor Reggie though.
by willyduer on Nov 19, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wayne > All
Andre Johnson is a close second though.
by Sir Sci on Nov 19, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"he had some production against us"
some? SOME?
Well, its Belichicken. Can’t expect more from him.
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha...OK" - Tom Brady
by BlueMark1821 on Nov 19, 2009 9:51 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I would argue
that that nickname hardly applies anymore after the 4th down call.
Anyway, when talking to the media he’s not exactly big with the adjectives. I’d say let’s just be happy with the praise.
One thing I have always been amazed with is how Reggie seems to catch 100% of balls that hit his fingers, even if it’s an absolute bullet to just the tips. It’s like he has glue on his hands. Not only that, but he does it in this quick precise manner, always waiting and biding his time, then sticking his hands out at the very last second and quickly pulling the ball back in to protect it. Last night while watching the game replay I realized what it reminds me of: A frog eating a fly. Wait, wait, wait – BAM – the tongue goes way out and is back in in the blink of an eye. That’s Reggie. It’s fun to watch.
Shoe – I responded to you in the other thread, which might get lost now. Just to be clear, I don’t have any issue with your not so humble opinion, only the defense of it. I’ve explained elsewhere that I think Moss’s gifts of height and speed enable him to bail out bad throws with alarming frequency, which makes him extremely valuable; but at the same time, I still wouldn’t trade Reggie for him. Not that Moss is lazy or anything (by all accounts he’s a great worker now that he has grown up) but it seems unfair that he gets his edge for reasons independent of skill – his physical gifts. It’s annoying.
by willyduer on Nov 19, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
really? that nickname applies no more?
After that call was made out of fear?
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha...OK" - Tom Brady
by BlueMark1821 on Nov 19, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There was more than fear
There were plenty of statistics and other factors.
Who ISN’T afraid of Peyton Manning at this point though?
by willyduer on Nov 19, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
hmm
good point. lol
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha...OK" - Tom Brady
by BlueMark1821 on Nov 19, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
For Belichick thats a lot
You have to admit tho, thats a pretty big amount of praise from Belichick compared to what he usually gives.
by Bippal on Nov 19, 2009 10:35 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
When both play to their potential
Moss is clearly the better wide out in my opinion. He was the reason for their 16-0 season in ’07 and can make plays no other receiver can make. Hell, he made Daunte Culpepper an All-pro. Yet, he only plays to his potential about half the time (or none of the time in Oakland) at best, and was also a big reason for the patriots downfall in ’07.
Wayne never takes a play off and keeps working to play past his potential (which is enormous in the first place). Talent wise, I don’t think he is on par with Moss at all, but he works 100x harder and actually gives a crap about the game and helping his team win. He doesn’t pout or quit playing when the ball isn’t thrown his way like Moss does. Moss has the talent and potential to be the best WR of all time if he had 1/20 the heart that Wayne does, but he doesn’t. Therefore, from a production standpoint, I think Wayne is at least as good a player if not better, regardless of God-given talent.
by npb1985 on Nov 19, 2009 11:23 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
exactly
Moss has probably the greatest physical ability (and yes his height and speed are a part of that), but he is lazy and takes plays off and is inconsistent. If he worked as hard as Reggie does or Marvin did, he’d be unbelievable. But he doesn’t and for that reason, he’ll probably not really be remembered the way other greats are.
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing...
Moss = Overrated
Since Moss has joined the Patriots….
AFC Championship game = 1 catch for 14 yards
SB 42 = 5 catches for 62 yards and 1 TD
The only reason Moss is considered that great is because of how tall he is. If he was 6’1", no one would be considering him the best. Jerry Rice he is nowhere close to being.
Moss is a very talented and very good WR, but since he is so much taller than his competition, it really doesn’t balance out.
People see all the flash of Moss but they see very little substance. He shows up big in games against mediocre teams and once in a while he’ll show up against a good team, but rarely does he show up against great defenses.
by DevilsReject on Nov 19, 2009 11:46 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think even those who think he’s great acknowledge that it’s not especially fair – it’s largely because he’s tall and fast. But that does count for something. He can erase mistakes – anyone remember that catch he made against two DBs with better position in Miami in 2007?
I suppose Reggie might be able to do that too. We’ll never know though, since Peyton doesn’t make any mistakes… :)
by willyduer on Nov 19, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I've never
Liked Randy Moss. I respect his ability and I know that he is one of the better WR’s in the game period. However, like Terrell Owens, he’s wasted it.
by DevilsReject on Nov 19, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ah yes, that pass that I considered too stupid to be thrown
between 2 defenders too stupid to catch it… that one?
ugh.
Oh wait, Brady is the greatest ever, as proven by that TD.
double ugh.
I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.
by Bobman on Nov 19, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
3 championships!
He’s the best! And Ben Roethlisberger is second best!
by willyduer on Nov 19, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
how DARE you
Terry Bradshaw is the best
EVH+DLR=BFFr........ God I Hope So!!
by dmstorm22 on Nov 19, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm amazed at how Colts fans can put stock in "clutch" aka small sample size
after all the Brady-Manning BS. Before Peyton won a superbowl and was getting bounced despite excellent performances (07/08) the Peyton argument you all made wasn’t “Peyton is clutch too”. It was that clutch is BS.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Nov 19, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
I believe in clutch.
Shun the non-believer!
by shoein on Nov 19, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Manning's issue
was never usually his performance, but his defense letting the other team off the hook countless times…
There isn’t a single QB I’d rather have as my QB since he came into the league..
by DevilsReject on Nov 19, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
early on he had some bad games in the Colts playoff losses
now with a large sample we can see it was just a good defense and some bad breaks (or if you’re Bill Simmons, that Peyton became clutch).
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Nov 19, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
I even prefer
Welker. Moss is great because he has a great qb throwing great passes to him
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha...OK" - Tom Brady
by BlueMark1821 on Nov 19, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No
Even I can’t deny Moss’s talents that much. Moss was a beast his first years in the league…and that was with Cunningham and George (two over the hill QB’s) and a rookie in Culpepper throwing to him…
by DevilsReject on Nov 19, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Clutch
It’s not even about being clutch, the guy simply disappears when the game is on the line. It’s not just about stats, but look at the games themselves… Moss was huge in the first 3 quarters of the Colts game, and then the guy is a ghost for the 4th quarter…
How does a guy that dominant get 1 single catch in an AFC title game?
And let’s not even discuss the second half of the SB….the guy was where?
It’s not just a small sample size, I was just trying to compare to a few others that I knew off the top of my head…..I’m more than sure we can find a relatively large sample size to make it legit.
by DevilsReject on Nov 19, 2009 12:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
"the guy simply disappears when the game is on the line"
Tending to be successful in tense or critical situations
Clutch is exactly what this is about.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Nov 19, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Two things make me laugh here...
discrediting him because of his size and speed is stupid…with that logic every player should be the same size and speed to even be compared!! Moss is a freak of nature. Was Marvin Harrison a great receiver? He disappeared a lot in big games. This must be a joke!! Clutch? He didn’t disappear in the game..his stats in the 4th were comparable to Reggies.
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
by TRDean on Nov 19, 2009 12:08 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
His height is his only real advantage
Average CB in the NFL = 6ft
Randy Moss = 6ft4
Now, since you say discrediting him because of his height is stupid….
Was Wilt Chamberlain really that great? Or was he a product of the guys he played against? Considering that the average player was almost a foot shorter than Wilt, I’d say he was more a product of the guys he played against….
No one is saying Moss isnt a talented or great WR, but I’m not buying him as the best or top WR in the league. It’s easy when all you have to do is run for a jump ball. That’s not talent….that’s athleticism…
If I had to draft a WR from the NFL today…..as my first choice….Moss wouldnt even make the top 3..
by DevilsReject on Nov 19, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
See, I agree with that last line
But I disagree with the clutch/disappears/overrated argument.
Both can be true.
The point is that while he’s exceptionally good, we’re not as impressed by it because a large part of the reason for it is god-given instead of something he had to work for (not to imply he’s lazy or anything, of course. By all accounts he works very hard.) His height literally puts him over the top.
Let’s not forget that that secondary in the 2007 title game was pretty damn good. They did intercept Manning 6 times in one game. Yeah, Peyton had plenty of legit excuses, but they still did a pretty damn good job getting those 6. And they covered the real Colts decently the week before too.
by willyduer on Nov 19, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Cluth sometimes equals adjustments
One reason to consider the big change in how some people do in the 4th quarter, would be team adjustments. Peyton and the offense has proven to be one of the best in recent years in 2nd half and 4th quarter adjustments. Maybe the defense is starting to catch up with our new coordinator?
by Bippal on Nov 19, 2009 12:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I can’t freakin stand the word clutch. First off, most people don’t even know what the hell it means or how to apply it to a given situation or person. Secondly, who gives a crap? Arguing about whether a player is clutch or not is a huge waste of time.
In fact, anyone who whines about clutch or class deserves to be slapped in my opinion.
MMA fans, check out my new blog The Spider's Web.
by KingRichard on Nov 19, 2009 12:16 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
WTF?
we agree?
there’s been way too much of that going on recently ; )
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Nov 19, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
MMA fans, check out my new blog The Spider's Web.
by KingRichard on Nov 19, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why class?
It has nothing to do with performance, but it’s perfectly relevant to a person’s rooting preferences and biases.
by willyduer on Nov 19, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You have no class....
Reggie Miller was clutch.
by ColtsFanNChiTown on Nov 19, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
catching ROCKS?
Great link – thanks.
by willyduer on Nov 19, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Great story
How can you not love a team that does this?
by LovinBlue on Nov 19, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't take Moss over Wayne
cause Peyton making Moss on dem hoes is kind of disgusting.
by diagenesis on Nov 19, 2009 12:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, it sounds like some sort of STD
that hoes get…eww!!
Peyton Manning makes it Wayne on them hoes!!!!
by KMR24 on Nov 19, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
That’s some funny stuff right there!
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Nov 19, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Since we’re on the subject of tall people (kinda-sorta), I was thinking the other day about the PERFECT redzone play. An unstoppable play that is guaranteed to give you 6 points.
Alright, what sparked the idea was these basketball announcers talking about LeBron James and how he was in that commercial dressed up like a Cleveland Browns player and a light went off upstairs. First off, I don’t understand why this hasn’t been implemented before but oh well. I think the Colts need to look for some super tall athletic player, possibly a basketball player, have him lineup in the slot and have Peyton chuck a ball so high that this guy would be the only one physically capable of catching the pass. Does anyone here think that there is a single NFL player who can out-jump Lebron James? I don’t. The guy is 6’10" and could leap a freakin building for crying out loud. How hard could it be to find someone similar to James’ build? IT’S THE PERFECT PLAY I SAY!
MMA fans, check out my new blog The Spider's Web.
by KingRichard on Nov 19, 2009 12:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
until a 5'10" DB takes em out at the knees when they jump
….too much hang time
"I bet Eli doesn't even have one touchdown today, ... I'm the best Manning."
-Peyton Manning
by skip2myluke on Nov 19, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
I think some high school team did that the other day.
Saw it on some blog. I guess this kid is like 7’9" or something crazy, and can’t run, but they use him in the end zone to lob passes to him.
read the same article
He was actually in middle school. He is pretty much only capable of running two yards and turning around and catching the ball. I felt bad for the kid because obviously being that tall at such a young age is going to be hard on his body. I’m glad he is getting to enjoy the game of football while he can.
Randy Moss has never had to work hard
Because he’s so physically gifted. Reggie Wayne doesn’t have his natural physique, so has had to work harder to become as good.
For Peyton Manning, Reggie Wayne’s as good as it gets. For someone like Jay Cutler, I’d be more comfortable with Randy Moss…
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