The Colts win, but are "outplayed" by the Ravens?
by BigBlueShoe on Nov 23, 2009 8:50 AM EST
in Bad Journalism
139 comments
From Paul Kuharsky:
And so concludes a full month of less-than-stellar play from the Indianapolis Colts.
I think it’s a bad thing for the rest of the NFL that the Colts have managed a 4-0 record over those four weeks.
In many ways, they were outplayed Sunday at M&T Bank Stadium. Just like after narrow wins over San Francisco, Houston and New England, there are issues that will show up in meeting rooms back at team headquarters, but not in the standings.
I've stated again and again how much I love Paul Kuharsky, but these first few lines in his Rapid Recap are very puzzling. I don't care who you are. If someone were to look me in the face and tell me the 49ers, Texans, Patriots, and Ravens all "outplayed" or "dominated" the Colts, I will simply have to write them off as an idiot who has not taken the time to watch the games or know the team.
Even yesterday's game, the Colts generated more yards than the Ravens, scored TDs on their defense, prevented the Ravens offense from scoring any TDs, were better on third down, and made the critical plays at the end to win it.
Um, I'm sorry Paul, but in what ways were the Colts outplayed?
The Colts defense held a rushing attack that was one of the league's best to 3.2 yards a carry, no TDs, and dominated Baltimore's offensive line on a very critical goal line stance that was likely the difference in the game. In all seriousness, if you actually think the Colts were outplayed by the Ravens, but managed to "steal" a win, you really don't know what you are talking about.
The reason the Colts beat the Ravens is because the Colts have a better offense, defense, and special teams than the Ravens right now. Look at the game and tell me Indy's defense isn't better. I dare you. They are missing Terrell Suggs, I know. We're missing Bob Sanders and Kelvin Hayden. Sorry, but I don't want to hear anything about injuries. And don't give me the old "Indy mediocre defense beat a mediocre Baltimore offense." Baltimore has one of the best offenses in football, and they were held out of the endzone at home.Indy was "outplayed?" Please.
Breakdown the Colts with any of the teams they've beaten during this 5-0 November stretch, and the Colts are simply better.
I honestly have no idea what Paul is thinking with those comments. Love ya, man. But come on!
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Do you write anything..
that isn’t under the heading of bad journalism? This seems to be your forte lately.
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
Yep
It was just a bit of a struggle because the execution wasn’t 100%.
Sure, the Ravens made some good plays, mostly in the passing game, and got those two picks, but let’s be honest. A subpar effort from the Colts still beat them.
I think his larger point is that the Colts haven’t dominated like a 10-0 team might be expected to. Which is true. But to me, that’s a good thing. They’re battling through tough games and making plays late to come back and still win. They’re winning without some key players. They’re winning against good teams. They’re winning without playing their best.
There’s still plenty of time to put it together and improve. The point is to be playing your best at the end of the year. So far they haven’t played their best. If they start to, look out.
I agree.. that is all BBS does
I can understand his point. The Colts are held to higher standards because of their traditional proficient play.
BBS, you HAVE to recognize that the Colts have not played well these past few weeks. Other teams have executed better than the Colts have.
But, good teams find ways to win games.
Again
As I stated below, only 6 articles have been tagged with “Bad Journalism” since the start of the NFL season.
The Colts are 2-0 during the two weeks were you claim they have not “played well.” They might not be blowing out opponents, but to be honest with you I’d prefer they didn’t. Close games like these make teams championship caliber. Offenses will sputter. Defenses will break. To use a generic, vulgar, but often true term: “Sh*t happens.”
However, great teams are forged when things are not going smoothly. When things get rocky, when the team experiences a “bump,” you look to see how they respond. The Colts have responded with wins. Compare this to Denver, who has lost four straight since starting 6-0. The NY Giants started 5-0, and then lost 4 straight and just barely won against the Atlanta Falcons this past Sunday. The Patriots blew an 18 point fourth quarter lead. The Bengals were looking like the second best team in the AFC after the Steelers and Ravens lost… until they lost to the Raiders yesterday. The two teams that played in last season’s AFC Championship Game (Steelers and Ravens) are playing what essentially amounts to a playoff game next week. The loser of that game seems very much out of the playoff picture.
So, when you say the Colts are not playing well, I don’t think you are taking in the big picture. If the Colts aren’t playing well, then (by that measurement) the rest of the league absolutely and completely stinks.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
by BigBlueShoe on Nov 23, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't agree with your last "bad journalism" article,
but I completely agree that this one is valid. We have won all of our games fair and square. We did enough to win. That’s what you do. You can’t be overplayed and still win.
However, I’ll also say I don’t “prefer” that we play close games. We’ve had our share now. Can we get back to blowouts please? :)
Kuharsky removed the offensive "Colts were outplayed"
paragraph, not too long after he posted it.
It highly ticked me off, too, but he realized his stupidity and removed it a few hours later.
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 9:11 AM EST reply actions
Scratch that, it's still up.
I was looking at the wrong article.
It really is outrageous.
Yuo know darn well if we were the Patriots or the Vikings, sportswriters would be gushing about hoow our defense played splendidly, rose to the occasion, and stymied the Ravens at every turn.
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
My god BBS could you tone it down? The whole point of his article was that he is IMPRESSED with the colts. That even when we don’t play as well as the team is capable of we still win the game. That is favorable press and you are calling him an idiot? I don’t know what it is with you lately but every week you get more and more histrionic without cause.
Let’s look at what he actually said:
“And so concludes a full month of less-than-stellar play from the Indianapolis Colts.”
“In many ways, they were outplayed Sunday at M&T Bank Stadium. "
Is this really such a “stupid” thing to say? We have not played stellar football over the past month: see two back-to-back games with interceptions, red zone issues, and the defense giving up double digits. So that is reasonable.
I wouldn’t say we were outplayed in “many” aspects, but it is reasonable to say we were outplayed in some respects. Namely, we didn’t “win” the turnover battle, we didn’t do a great job of sustaining drives, and we also had some issues in the redzone. While you are correct in that we were better in the most important area: stopping them from getting into the endzone, that doesn’t mean you can say that the colts played an awesome overall game.
The colts did NOT play an awesome game. They did just enough to win which is what a GREAT team does: they win games even when they don’t play great. That is what Paul K was pointing out and is a far more intelligent point then we get from 90% of the media hacks who cover the colts at all. It is unbelievably whiny to criticize a favorable review of the game.
Maybe you need to send an e-mail to Kuharsky and explain
that to him.
I find his article not just wrong, but unfair.
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
I find so many Colts fans are...
too stinking sensitive!! Waaaaa Waaaa…we won but nobody gives us credit…Waaaa Waaaa
Like it or not…the Colts have been here before..they win tons in the regular season..with only one super bowl win. The public, and the press have all seen this before…
To shut them up…the COLTS need to roll through the playoffs and win the super bowl to back up their stellar regular seasons.
I must say, as a Colts fan…I feel the same way. I have been blasted on here many times…regular season dominance is fine…win the big game following the regular season dominance!!
It is only natural…the Colts winning streaks in the regular season are “old hat”. The only game that matters is the Super Bowl!!
Question…will Caldwell take a different path than Dungy and rest players? I think I would rest Freeney soon..he seems banged up. Thoughts???
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
Maybe you should have read the comments section of his article
like I did.
It was 99% “the Colts always get lucky”, the Colts didn’t deserve to win", “the Colts really aren’t any good”, the Colts always get all the calls". And a Colts fan couldnm’t even post without being called names and ridiculed.
Those are the crybabies, not people like BBS, who analyze the game logically.
I say again, if it was the Patriots, people would be congratulating their awesome defense.
I get really sick of hearing it.
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
I think it is human nature
for people to resent teams that win all (most) of their games. I think a lot of it is jealousy.
If you want to be treated like a Patriots fan...
become one!! Quit bitching because the press doesn’t cream all over every win the Colts have. I’m glad you read the comments section…who the hell cares!!! This blog is nothing more than a bunch of whiny fans complaining they get no respect. Respect will only come after the Colts follow up by winning the Super Bowl.
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
i don't care about fan comments or respect
but I would like to be able to read or watch sports and get some balanced coverage. If you don’t want to give me balanced coverage, do no opinion reporting and just stick to the facts. Most media outlets, ESPN especially, seems to be incapable of doing either.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
True...
but don’t let it drive you crazy!
A Superbowl win will cure what ails you!!
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
it doesn't 'drive me crazy'
but if someone is getting paid to do a job, they should be accountable for doing it well. This isn’t about ‘my team gettin respect’, i dont care about power rankings or any of that – they have no bearing on anything – but I should be able to read coverage on my team from national, unbiased, media outlets without it being trash.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Switch to being a fan of Boston teams
and ESPN will be great for you!
Actually, no, it’ll still be trash. But it’ll be homer trash, at least.
here here! My god, after all the shit we give pats fans for the unadulterated media love for the pats, we get this shit from BBS. I don’t want the media love. I don’t care if the media loves us because they don’t usually KNOW ANYTHING. Instead of covering interesting angles of the game, like Santi’s performance, or breaking down the red zone defensive stops, or discussing playoff seeding we get this crap.
That should piss colts fans off. The solution to media ignorance is not to make fun of them; it is to provide what they don’t provide. Substantive analysis!
I’m sorry I thought that Kuharsky was the writer and not idiot commentators.
Of course, the colts don’t get respect from lots of fans. You can bitch and whine about it until your fingers fall off but it will not change until we win the super bowl. The smarter thing to do is to enjoy the lack of respect, hope that it motivates our players, and enjoy bashing all these people AFTER we actually win the super bowl.
I just don’t see the point of focusing on the media negativity period. It is a waste of time.
Even if you are going to focus on media negativity, this is far from the worst stuff out there.
Well said!
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
why do you and sandsnake
read a blog? (serious question)
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Why??
are you upset that every Colts fan does not fall in lock step with every other fan. I usually come to this site to get analysis and other peoples thoughts of the GAME.
I like this site…but lately it is becoming more of a place to come and cry about a lack of respect. Lets talk about the emergence of Santi…how about the play of Powers? How about the Defense goal line stop…or the play of Brackett!!
Instead I come on this morning and get another “bad journalism” piece!!
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
We are analyzing the game.
We are analyzing the reasons why we didn’t get outplayed.
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
wow
you need to cycle off the roids.
That wasn’t the point of my question, but thanks, Lou!
My point was – most people that take the time to go to blogs are a little more ‘obsessed’ (healthily, of course) than your average fan. As such, they probably want more information that just box scores. So you come here, maybe you read SI, or CBSSportsline, or FoxSports, or ESPN, and Im sure some of us read all 4, plus Stampedeblue and 18to88.
The fact that there are ‘homer’ blogs like SB and 18to88 shouldn’t preclude national media outlets from providing useable/factual/correct information.
What is the issue with taking what someone, in this instance, Paul Kuharsky, says, and break down their analysis? I don’t think we’re beating the 19-0 drum, or greatest team ever drum. I think we’re banging the, ‘this analysis is incorrect, and this is why’, drum. Thats discussing the article, in the context of the game.
ESPN took people that used to work for newspapers and put those people in charge of covering the NFL divisions – I can see ESPN.com going the way of their former employer if they keep up this stellar work.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
No roids here..
but I will tell you something…breaking down what some reporter says is not breaking down the game! I can’t believe this is the first post game article on this site follwing the victory.
Why don’t we just make this a Colts get no respect blog…as it is becoming. To say this article is breaking down the game, and a critical analysis is a joke!!
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
breaking down the game
vis a vis the reporter. We were not outplayed, we can discuss the game play by play and go over this.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Here's the great thing about the setup of SBNation
It allows everyone to write stories/provide links, etc.
If you’d like to talk about Santi, or Powers, or the defense, write up an article talking about them. Then people will be discussing exactly what you want to discuss, and you don’t have to talk about hack jobs in the MSM.
Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.
To see smart people break down in interesting angles of the game, like Santi’s performance, or breaking down the red zone defensive stops, or discussing playoff seeding from a colt’s perspective that we don’t get from the national media.
I don’t come to this blog to read articles from the Colts Anti-Defamation League
in the end
I thought Santi did a lot to hurt the Colts as much as he helped them. He had three killer plays that I remember – the fumble, the false start, and on a 2nd or 3rd down play, he was supposed to slip off a block and move into the flat, but he never slipped the block. It would have been a real nice gain, you could see Manning yelling at him after the play. His catches were nice, and he was a better blocker than I expected. But he played like this was his first game of the year, and we can’t have that.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
I also saw Santi...
completely miss on a block that resulted in a negative play…but it was awsome seeing some of his catches..and it gives opponents one more weapon to worry about!!
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
he seemed much more athletic
than Robinson. Lot more YAC potential with him in there. Hope he’s not injury prone. He’ll need some actual play time to get polished. Like I said, I think all around, he was better than Robinson. He blocked better, caught better, ran better. That seems like the trifecta, to me.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Overall I liked him
He made a few mistakes (and frankly I can’t hang that fumble on him – Ray’s hit could have knocked the guy out), but he had a huge role during this game and the experience will be invaluable down the stretch.
How can you not love a team that does this?
Yep
plus on the fumble and another play he seemed completely incapable of getting low and falling forward for that last yard.
The first time it resulted in a punt, the second a turnover. It almost seemed like he was just too tall, or at least too vertical. Didn’t get any push or momentum.
I’ll forgive the goal line one, of course, given that he was being hit by two hall of famers. But on the one at the sticks, all he had to do was fall forward.
Not that he didn’t have a big game; obviously he did. I don’t think Robinson gives us that game at all. But he’s still just a young kid. Much less experience than Garcon, who has had a noticeable amount of (expected) growing pains.
Plus...
I like to give King Richard a hard time!!
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
Sounds to me like you guys are saying that pointing out the
stpidity of a sports article should be off limits.
What are you, the thought police?
Maybe you should just not read the thread if it bothers you that much, instead of coming here telling us all what whiny little bitches we are.
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
That is all this site has become...
another BBS article on bad journalism.
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
6 articles
Since the start of the season, only six articles have been tagged under “Bad Journalism.”
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
by BigBlueShoe on Nov 23, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
alright...I'll cry uncle...
keep up the good work.
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
LOL
I will, but only as long as you hold my feet to the fire. And don’t ever think I view you as anything less than essential.
Unlike the mainstream media (yes, I slap them once more in the face; sue me), I respond to the readers here. Sometimes, I respond harshly. It’s all done out of love and passion for the game and the team.
As I have always said, your comments are far more important than my articles. I rarely take pride in how many hits this site gets. I ALWAYS enjoy seeing articles generate 100-plus comments. That is what blogging is all about.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
by BigBlueShoe on Nov 23, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Hits
The site averages about 16K a day. Those are just hits to the frontpage with one click to another page.
“Page views” are when someone hits the site and clicks more than two pages. With those, we average about 8,000 a day.
These number put us at the top of the active sites. I believe the top three are Arrowhead Pride, Blogging the Boys, and Mile High Report. Stampede Blue falls in about fourth or fifth, I think.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
"I ALWAYS enjoy seeing articles generate 100-plus comments"
Even when 75 of them are LOLcats?
; )
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Nov 23, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Yes!
Especially LOLcats threads!
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
Everything you right, has some reference to how much the MSM sucks
Analyze the game, like you’re supposed to
you are so write
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
so skip it!
There’s a ton of bad journalism out there. Way too much of it. Lots of people who can’t cut it in other fields find their way into a newspaper or TV jobs and are immediately regarded as experts. Meanwhile we get morons like Kravitz babbling about how nobody should ever take a website seriously.
I guess we should be thankful – bad mainstream journalism is a large part of why sites like this exist. They fill a need for smarter and more thoughtful coverage, and they allow us all a place to vent about the stupid shit that comes out of the ESPN guys mouths. If ESPN or SI had competent football analysts (I almost said writers, but King is a great writer – he’s just bad at analysis) I probably never would’ve found this place.
Trust me – if BBS wanted to, he could have 2-3 Bad Journalism pieces a day. We could have our own little Fire Joe Morgan sidebar – in this case I guess it could be Fire Jon Gruden* – and I bet it would get a million bajillion hits. 6 articles in ten weeks is actually pretty restrained, if you ask me. And while we’re not always going to agree (I famously disagree 100% about Collinsworth, for instance), I think it’s worth trying to keep some of these guys honest. Especially a guy like Kuharsky who a) does good work and b) actually listens to feedback. I tend to think he misspoke and mostly just meant to praise the Colts for winning ugly, but that error still opened the door for a relevant column about the Colts and their play. You’ll note that he didn’t just call him an idiot over and over; he simply used it to segue into a discussion of football.
there is a huge difference between having the ability to write an article and choosing to do so.
Hoosier Horseman: is this really the article you wanted to see this morning? Wouldn’t you rather have read something actually analzying the GAME and not analysis of some commentator’s reactions to the game? I recognize BBS has the right to do this and i think it is appropriate to be on the sidebar. But, as the first article after the recap? I just don’t think this should be this important
I've already read probably 30 or so
threads on other sites this morning analyzing the game.
there’s no shortage of them.
But I think this is important. Hey, I’m a fan, I don’t like seeing the Colts bashed unfairly.
It bothered me yesterday to read Kuharsky’s article.
The media is pushing a meme that the Colts are being “outplayed”.
They did it all last week over the Pats game, and they’re doing it again now.
I wish to God Belichek HAD punted the ball, because I have no doubt Peyton would have scored anyway, and we wouldn’t have to listen to it.
Inm short, yes, this interests me as a fan. If it doesn’t interest you, read something else.
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
Fair enough. I respect that. I have a different interest then you but perhaps that because I only know of three good colts blogs. This, IFR and 18to88. If you did fill your need for substantive colts stuff then it makes sense that you are happy to see this article.
And, look, I agree with you in general that the colts don’t get the respect that they deserve. I just try to ignore it, getting upset about it just makes me upset, because they will not change. Also, I like Paul K in general and I just thought this was far from an egregiously wrong peiece.
BBS is right this time
I disagree with BBS a lot but in this case I’d have to say he’s right. That phrase “in many ways, they were outplayed” is just a weaselly way of saying the Ravens should have won without coming right out and saying it.
There was no controversy, no muffed calls by the refs, no conspiracy. The Colts scored more points, therefore they won. End of story.
Kuharsky also puts up that asinine, “I think it’s a bad thing for the rest of the NFL that the Colts have managed a 4-0 record over those four weeks.” What the fuck? It’s bad that the team scoring more points wins the game? This isn’t peewee football, there are no awards for best effort.
Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
"I think it’s a bad thing for the rest of the NFL that the Colts have managed a 4-0 record over those four weeks."
Sigh. He is saying, quite clearly, that the rest of the NFL should be SCARED of the COLTS because even when we aren’t playing great we WIN and when we do play great we will CRUSH the rest of the NFL. You can’t get much more favorable commentary then that.
See, I don't get that
Kuharsky talks about Peyton’s two “bad” interceptions (the second really was bad but the first was an unlucky deflection, IMHO) but doesn’t mention how well the offense moved the ball the rest of the time against what is supposed to be a great defensive team. He doesn’t mention all the bad throws by Flacco that cost his team half a dozen trips to the endzone.
He focuses on a a few plays (the Brackett interception, the wasted timeout, the bungled lateral) as if those made all the difference. But if the Ravens hadn’t had several breaks go their way earlier, they wouldn’t have still been in the game at all. Everyone gets good breaks and bad breaks over the course of 60 minutes.
A lesser team might get frustrated when things don’t go their way but the Colts never do. They stick to the plan, keep on executing, and it usually pays off. That’s the kind of line you would be reading for another team like, say, the Patriots.
I don’t get as torqued up about it as BBS but the double standard is annoying.
Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
Guys, an opinion blog is not a news story.
It’s not correct to call it “bad journalism”. It is correct to call it a point of view, and to go even further to say that aspects of the game suggest the opposite of his opinion – the Colts were in fact moving the ball all day, and only had to punt, what, twice? Some low number? – but to say that it is “bad journalism” is to misunderstand what journalism encompasses. Only straight news stories have any requirements for being fair with balanced reporting; opinion pieces like editorials and blog posts are not. Quite the opposite; they’re supposed to be opinionated. And frankly, I may disagree with his sentiment that the Colts were “outplayed”, but given the two interceptions, the goal line turnover, and the like, even I have to say that Kuharsky has an argument. It’s not one I agree with, but he is starting from facts. It is the opinion he generates from those facts that I find faulty, but when things are a matter of opinionated disagreement, that removes it from the realm of being “bad journalism”. It ends up being an opinion piece that I disagree with. And there’s a world of difference between the two.
------
"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."
the disconnect is
that Kuharsky IS a journalist, atleast by the strictest definition of his job title. He has worked for newspapers and now for ESPN. He’s a journalist, his work is journalism. He did his work poorly. QED or something, bad journalism.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
His job quite obviously encompasses both straight reporting and opinion pieces
… and your objection does not apply. Once again, it’s a blog. It’s supposed to have opinionated pieces.
Furthermore, you set up an inaccurate syllogism. Being a journalist does not exclude a person from the writing of opinionate pieces, as long as their clearly opinion columns and not substituted for straight reporting. The fact that this is a blog piece quite clearly demonstrates that this is the case here; he made the above contended charge in the AFC South Blog section.
Third, having a difference of opinion does not make something objectively measurable as bad. “Bad” in journalistic terms would be deliberate misrepresentation of factual information; look up “Walter Duranty” of the New York Times and his intentional, deliberate manipulation of stories regarding the communist Soviet Union as an example of this. That is bad journalism. It’s forwarding intentionally distorted information as straight reporting. Kuharsky has not done this. Rather, he takes isolated elements of a game and renders an opinion on the entire performance based on that. That’s opinion, not distortion of fact. And by being opinion in a segregated area on the site, it ceases being straight reporting.
Look, I’m sorry that you disagree. But your objection does not compute. To demonstrate that Kuharsky committed bad journalism, you have to demonstrate that he deliberately misrepresented factual information, not that he drew the wrong conclusion from what is known. I can fully agree with you that he is wrong in saying that the Colts were outplayed, and that is my own criticism of his piece. But you all go too far in calling it “bad journalism”, and part of it is the obvious misunderstanding of what journalism encompasses. What he wrote is poorly supported opinion, and as I said before, there’s a huge gulf between the two.
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"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."
First
I didnt call it bad journalism, thats just the tag it was put under.
Second, you’re using semantics to argue a point which I don’t believe exists. Now, we can do this, but it seems to be a gigantic waste of time.
I draw a distinction between blogger (read: BBS, the guys at 18to88.com) and Paul Kuharksy, Phil Wilson, etc.. who write blogs. They have blogs, but are not bloggers. If you want to say, ‘well, he had an incorrect opinion based on facts’, then every sports writer out there is free from any sort of criticism.
The way that ESPN.com has set it up, the 8 bloggers that cover each division are akin to beat writers for newspaper, only their beat is 4 teams instead of 1, and they do most of their beating from afar (Kuharsky, just as an example, can only make one game a week, presumeably, i dont know if he went to a game yesterday and is going to titans/texans tonight, but that would be a rarity) and doing all of their reporting online, as opposed to print.
A beat writer, imo, is the person that covers the team and reports the facts on the team. Again, just to keep it close to home, I’ll use the following analogy: Paul Kuharksy is Phil Wilson, or Phil Richards or Mike Chappell (if I spelled anyone’s name wrong, sorry) and Clayton, Wickersham, Chadiha, etc… are Kravitz. Columnists, obviously, do almost all of their writing in opinion form. They are the ones that write the puff pieces afterwards, they are the ones that use almost no facts in their writing, but instead are telling a story. This is not Kuharsky’s job. His job as the ‘beat writer’, as the ‘reporter’ is to report facts. He didn’t state, ‘from my view the colts got outplayed for most of the game’ or ‘it seemed like the Colts were getting outplayed, yet they lead most of the game and were never behind for more than 3 minutes at a time’ or ‘in my opinion, the colts won despite being outplayed’. He said, matter of factly,
“In many ways, they were outplayed …”
This is his reporting to any and everyone that gets their AFC South information from his ‘beat reporting’. This is bad journalism. He is doing a disservice to his readers. He is reporting an opinion as a fact. He is using his position as a fact reporter to misreport/misrepresent facts.
Again, the problem between the two of us is I believe there’s a difference between being a blogger and having a blog. I think its a misnomer on ESPN. Thats just their name for where they store their beat reporters stories.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
then every sports writer out there is free from any sort of criticism.
When did I say Kuharsky should be free of criticism? Did you see my post a couple of threads ago where I exploded over what he said? There’s a difference between criticizing a writer and calling it “bad journalism”, and that was one of the two points I was making. He drew an incorrect conclusion, but calling it “bad journalism” is inaccurate. For the third time, there’s a difference between the two, exacerbated by the fact that a blog piece is an opinion piece. Journalistic standards allow a writer to be wrong in an opinion piece.
Two, separation of beat writers from opinion columnists is not a universally followed model. The Indy Star does it the way you put forth, but ESPN quite obviously does not. Heck, few sports outlets nowadays does. You fail to realize that the separation is not applied in all circumstances.
2a. Yes, the beat stories get stored there. But so do opinion pieces. So do their equivalents of “letters to the editor”. The area is segregated. The straight news stories goes under the “Headlines” area.
3. The fact that his is also an analysis piece also adds to the fact that the post was opinion, not straight reporting. Analysis pieces by their very nature are not straight news reporting; they’re taking facts gathered from the process of straight news gathering and applying the writers judgement on them. That right there makes analysis non-reporting, and sends it to the realm of opinion writing.
Look, I don’t say any of this out of a sense of disrespect for any of you, nor am I trying to engage in a pissing contest here. Rather, I saw an innocent error born of a misunderstanding of the differences between straight reporting and opinion writing, and I sought to correct that error. We can all agree that Kuharsky’s analysis was inaccurate, and only focused on isolated elements of the game, but my overall point is that it takes more than a difference of opinion to make something bad journalism. And in the end, that’s the only point I’m really trying to make.
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"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."
Great conversation
I’m just following along, but wanted to commend both of you for being smart.
Maybe I’ve been reading too much CHFF lately, but my expectations are really low lately. Glad to see civil discourse even though you’re disagreeing. I think you’re both making great points and observations.
i havent read this yet, just wanted to let you know im not ignoring you
i fell asleep, so i’ll read it/respond in a little bit.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Me, or Willy?
Either way, it’s fine. Look, I’m not trying to pick a fight or anything; I respect everyone on this board, you included. I just have this case in my head and wanted to state it, that’s all.
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"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."
you
I just didn’t want you to think that I was ignoring the discussing anymore. And you don’t have to worry about me thinking im being direspected or anything, I live my life one disrepsect at a time. I don’t mind the give and take, like I said before, I think we’re arguing a semantics (you probably disagree, and I’m probably just being stubborn in not classifying Kuharsky et al as bloggers).
So without any more delay, I think I’m awake enough:
1) First and foremost blog v journalism. I get what you’re saying, I promise, I’m not completely dense. I just don’t think the fact that Kuharsky writes something in his blog makes it a blog. I know, thats wtf speak, but I think of him as a journalist first and foremost. I’m not trying to slag anyone in the blogging community, as they are, at times, capable of delivering better commentary than journalists, but I hold journalists to a higher standard, regardless of where there words are going.
2) The ‘outplayed’ comment was in Kuharsky’s “Rapid Reaction”. Now, you could say, ‘thats Kuharsky’s quick opinion on the game’, which you might be right, I, however, view the rapid reax postings from all of the bloggers akin to a post game write up. Lets say I was a Jags fan (or a Pats fan, which Ive been accused of) and I was watching my game and missed the Colts game, and I wanted to know what happened and didnt want to wait for highlights or NFL replay, so I go to ESPN and I read Kuharsky’s write up. Ive now had my antiseptic view of the game infected by his ‘opinion’. I’m struggling to find the right words here – but if anyone, just 1 person, uses Kuharsky and the Rapid Reax situation to get game information for the first time, then its a a clear violation (imo) of the unwritten contract between reporter and reader to pollute the write up with unfounded opinion. He past it off as fact. He past it off as if it were the same thing that happened in the NE game (and we debate outplayed and dominated there, too, of course). If it wasn’t bad journalism, it was careless, at best.
Again, it all comes down to our perception. I perceive the ESPN NFL bloggers job to be report facts, no opinions. I don’t view them as bloggers because I don’t feel they are blogging. I feel that everyone in the media business, from newspapers to espn.com saw that the internet revolution was going to destory their business, so they slapped words like ‘blog’ on everything in an attempt to look modernized. Also, and this may be completely innane and irrelevant to the discussion, but I think, atleast publicly, the suits at espn.com would tell you that all of their employees are journalists, even though they hold none of them to any sort of journalistic standards.
Regardless, I understand the point you’re making, and as I said, I’m probably being stubborn in arguing against it, but I just don’t view them as bloggers or people writing opinion pieces, and I didn’t feel that the article he wrote it in was place for opinion. Moreover, I’m tired of people passing their opinions off as fact to a national audience. Like Deion Sanders last sunday stating factually, ‘the Patriots got the first down, they won the game, end of discussion’, well, no, factually the Patriots didnt get the first down, they turned the ball over, and the Colts won, but thanks for setting education back 50 years, Prime.
:o
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Great point about the media slapping the "blog" label on stuff to continue to be relevant
As for Prime, he was crying in his Corn Flakes as the Addai juke to beat Ray Ray was replayed. It was awesome.
How can you not love a team that does this?
Hehe... well, at least we understand each other
… even if we don’t actually agree. I’m fine with that. I just wanted to make my own point, and I can see where you’re coming from. It’s just that I recognize that many media outlets don’t have as clear a distinction between the halves of their output as much as they used to. And I’m not certain that’s a good thing, but I have to admit that it’s an undeniable thing, regardless of how much I don’t like it.
But, I’m just going to end up repeating myself here, so I’ll let it go. I do agree with your rip on Sanders, though: Those introduction shows have become the prime example of “neither fish nor fowl” in terms of mixing sports reporting with analysis, and while the product might seem high energy, it also has the detrimental effect of blurring the line between news and analysis/opinion writing/editorializing. Because it’s sports, NFLN, CBS, Fox, ESPN, etc. all get away with it, but like I said above, I’m not sure that’s a good thing. I may have defended the fact that media outlets mix the two aspects together, but I don’t agree with it. I’d rather see separation myself, but what can you do? Refuse to watch the pregame to drive ratings down? Yeah… like that’ll work.
Anyway, thanks for the debate. It’s been fun. Sometimes you end up exercising your brain in the most unusual of places. =)
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"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."
No team whose opponent gets within their 30 seven times
and comes away with 15 points, has been outplayed.
The Colts played a stellar game defensively. They out-defensed a team renowned for their defense.
The only reason people are saying they were outplayed is because Manning didn’t have another TD or two, and that’s all.
And if Santi had held on to the ball, and made a catch he should have made, he would have gotten them.
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 9:25 AM EST reply actions
'less than stellar'
The Colts have been playing less than stellar by the lofty standards they set, but I agree, they have not been outplayed, that’s why there are 4 W’s posted in the win/loss statistic the last four weeks. They’re not playing up to their standards and are still getting wins, not losses. To me, that’s impressive. I thought the Colts were on the way to a blow-out… when it looked like we recovered a fumble in great field position shortly after the initial TD. It just wasn’t in the cards. However, next week……I want a big win! It’s time to get back to the 20 point victories!
Other than the fact that the Media dislikes the Colts
over the Saints, I can’t find any other reason why the two teams are being handled so differently. The Saints have struggled against mediocre teams at home and on the road since their blow out win over the Giants. The Colts have beat 3 teams in a row with 500 or better records and 4 in a row that are fighting for their playoff lives, regardless of the score, that seems more impressive than struggling over the rams.
I don’t know how you can take too many negatives from this win, from fan or media standpoints. Yes, the defense needs to force some third down stops – hopefully they get Hayden back. The DL needs to get more pressure. Penalties need to stop. Thats fine. But they kept them out of the end zone. They limitted a great running game. They didn’t let Ray Rice kill them with too many big catches.
The offense moved the ball up and down the field. They killed themselves with penalties and turnovers. Those are self-correctable. If it was more of the same ‘offensive line struggles’, ‘DL getting gashed consistently’, etc… that we’ve seen over the past couple of weeks, thats something else entirely. I felt like the Colts dominated this game in a ton of aspects and just kept the Ravens in it with killer mistakes. (There’s a difference between defense forcing mistakes and self-inflicted wounds, imo. Mannings two picks were self inflicted; Santi’s fumble was forced, although that was damn close to a penalty on Murderer insufficient evidence to convict Ray Lewis.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Agree about Ray Lewis
I have a soft spot for hard-hitting defenders (see Sanders, Bob) but that hit on Santi by Ray Lewis made me wince. There’s a fine line between hard-hitting and dirty. Trying to take a man’s head off when he’s already on his way down is a little too much. Santi managed to walk away but you could tell he got mauled.
It was legit, I guess, but only because Lewis is a crafty veteran who knows exactly how much he can get away with, unlike Harrison or Lynch.
Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
well he was a defenseless receiver
and it was real close to a headshot. I wish i had taped yesterdays game, but the DVR is getting full and I’m keeping the Patriots game till playoffs, atleast, so i have to make tough choices..;)
It was clear that they didn’t want to call anything on the Ravens unless it involved firearms or removing Garcon’s ability to pee without blood.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
im sure ray will get fined but probably not much
GO COLTS!!! 09 IS OURS!!!
by TheAngelsColts on Nov 23, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
My thought process is
Right now Im enjoying the games, and the wins, and being a Colt fan.
I try not too let what someone else thinks or says or writes F that up for me. They wont be mailing the Colts a trophy for “having the most bloggers, sports writers, commentators, and random retards love them for winning games and being awesome”
BBS sure does like to get everyone jacked up though. Makes for a lot of comments. =)
nice!
They wont be mailing the Colts a trophy for "having the most bloggers, sports writers, commentators, and random retards love them for winning games and being awesome"
You are right. They mail that every year to the patriots…
That's not the point I was making
which was that idiotic articles like Kuharsky’s do nothing but encourage the Colts haters.
What a crime!
I come to this site hoping I won’t be insulted by fellow Colt’s fans over nothing,really, except that somebody posted a thread I enjoy reading that somebody else doesn’t like.
Have a nice day.
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
Marvin, I was responding to sandsnake
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
Its cool
you’ll have to excuse me, occasionally Im easily confused. =)
especially when Im half asleep.
So you are basically saying you feel insulted??
WTF dude?? You have a really thin skin!! By the way, articles like this do nothing but perpetuate this inferiority complex about the Colts. Really, if I insulted you sorry!!!
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
uhm
go to jaguars.com or patriotsplanet.com or one of the other 31 teams message boards, read the first page of posts – EVERY TEAM has ‘thin skin’. Some of them, like the rams and lions and seahawks fans are just quieter because they are used to sucking.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
That was a low blow..
but some of those teams do suck….
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
not really meant to be a low blow
my point was just every team’s fans cries disrespect, you just hear it more from Colts fans because you read Colts stuff exclusively (i assume). Look at the Patriots – as an organization they have made a living off of the No Respect card. Did you hear Roidney sunday night?
“THis is when the Patriots are at their best, when one of their own is injured by the media!” Uhm, really? Belichick was injured by the media? What was the injury? TOo much chaffing on his willie from all the slurping?
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Harrison was the one
who caused the “injury” in the first place. What a tool. Mark Sanchez throws 4 picks and looks lost, but according to the media, it was such a dominating performance by NE. Yawn…
yea
Just confirms my suspicions – Rodney shouldnt speak when he’s mentruating.
After he got over the angst and heartache, he’s singing a different tune.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
I menstruate every month, guess I'll keep quiet on those days. :p
Just kidding, but I get tired of how menstruating is some big crime. I function just as well mentally and physically on those days.
Our Colts are so interesting, who needs the media? They give us enough intrigue, excitement, story lines during the games… 10-0!
menstruation is great,
when done by a woman. When a grown man is going through it on TV, its awkward and confusing.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Well you basically called me a whiny little bitch 'cause
I disagreed with you. What do you think?
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Look, forget it.
But this is a Colts blog.
We ought to be able to talk abou anything we want, without some kind of self-imposed censorship imposed on us by a few people who don’t like the subject matter.
If you want to gripe about a thread, do it, and then LEAVE!
Don’t hijack the thread away from the rest of us who don’t share your high moral opinion of yourselves.
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Hey buddy...
you called yourself a whiney little bitch…I never said that…but if the shoe fits…
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
Really? Actually worse, you called me a Patriots fan-
“I find so many Colts fans are… too stinking sensitive!! Waaaaa Waaaa…we won but nobody gives us credit…Waaaa Waaaa”
“If you want to be treated like a Patriots fan… become one!! Quit bitching because the press doesn’t cream all over every win the Colts have. I’m glad you read the comments section…who the hell cares!!! This blog is nothing more than a bunch of whiny fans complaining they get no respect.
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
"bitching" "whiny" "too stinking sensitive" "who the hell cares"
Nice.
What insults did I hurl at you?
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
You are acting like I was speaking directly to you..
I wasn’t…but if you need to feel insulted go ahead.
If calling you a patriots fan is that bad for you…maybe a little psyche time is in order…
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
You were in the 2nd post I quoted, and it at least seemed so with
the 1st one.
but since all you want to do is keep throwing insults at me “if the shoe fits” “psych time” you can get a dictionary and look up “insult”.
I asked you before, have I said a single insulting thing to you?
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
The Patriots fan comment was a joke.
I’m pretty sure EVERYONE but you got that.
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Bottom line
If you win, you are the winner. If you loose, you are the loser. The Colts won, they are the winners. I kinow this because I can read a S C O R E B O A R D. What anybody says or writes does not change the scoreboard. And for my money, has no influence on the outcome of the next game either.
Speaking of the scoreboard and whiny bitches,
I love how they refuse to put the word “Colts” on the Baltimore scoreboard. Did you catch that? Apparently yesterday’s game was played between the Ravens and “Indy”.
You stay classy, Baltimore. Stay classy.
Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
I saw that too...
I couldn’t believe that!!! As a former resident of the city…what a black eye…classless and clueless…they must be trying to out do the Philly fans for stupidity.
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
Yeah, that's ridiculous
If it was 1989, I could understand the chip on the shoulder, but it’s been over 25 years since the Colts left Baltimore. Most of the players had just learned how to walk at that time, and none of them have any level of feeling regarding the move from Bal to Indy. Since the Ravens have come they have won a Super Bowl and been a consistent playoff team. Get over it. I’d say that most of the Ravens fans today are actually Ravens fans anyway, and not former Colts fans.
Not even close
to the right math. I’ve met Baltimore people that are in their mid to late forties and early fifties that were Colts maniacs in their teens and twenties when they moved away. They are always going to be steamed at the Irsays, and they will never put ‘Colts’ on their scoreboard. I never followed the Baltimore Colts at all, but for the hometown fans, it was a local religion. I guess it would be like if Jerry Jones moved the Cowboys to Patterson NJ. The folks with all the stars on their pickups and wearing blue and silver jackets wouldn’t be getting over that in our lifetimes. The only startup Ravens fans are like ten years old, and the only memories they have of Johnny Unitas are seeing him on the Ravens sidelines each game before he passed away. Don’t think that most Baltimore folks have moved on, because they haven’t. They do respect the new Colts, much more than the Steelers (who they totally hate), they just wish they had used a different name.
by OlSkoolSkins on Nov 23, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
We are the winningest team
in the history of the NFL to be outplayed by practically every opponent we have faced. I have honestly yet to hear a SINGLE thing complimenting the Colts and giving them props. The individual players are getting respect (Peyton, Reggie, Dallas, etc.), and Caldwell is getting a little recognition (though not enough), but as a team, the way we have been portrayed, you’d think we are 4-6. Every solid team we have played (Jax, Hou, AZ, NE, Bal) have been won because of luck or the game was given to us and we will eventually fall apart. Every average to bad team we’ve played didn’t matter because anyone would beat those teams. All the Colts analysis this year has been why we should have lost and why we are not that good. I’ve come to expect this year after year from everyone of the Patriot fans, er, NFL writers/analysts.
You won’t now or ever hear much praise of Indy because of it being a small market team, example look when the Colts won the SB sure there was some traditional celebrations for a while but compared to teams like the Steelers,Giants,PATS that win the SB it was and is very minor.
This failure of recognition of the accomplishments of the Colts comes down to one thing, BIG MONEY and we as Colts fans need to realize that the BIG MONEY is and will be in the afore mentioned areas.
by Ufanforreal on Nov 23, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Not getting praise is one thing
Lack of media coverage doesn’t bug many of us, it’s the general undermining of everything the Colts do. We are getting the media coverage, but every time it is just people trying to explain how we are not good. That is just plain hating.
Let them talk. The media talks and talks and talks, and the Colts just win. “Oh, San Francisco should have won.” Well, they didn’t. “Oh, Houston should have forced overtime.” Well, they didn’t. “The Patriots would have won if Belichick didn’t go for it!” Not true, but either way, they didn’t. “The Ravens totally outplayed the Colts and should have won!” Well, they didn’t.
That’s what it really boils down to. Our opponents have one more loss, because of us. We’re 10-0, they’re not. So yeah, let Kuharsky and Kravtiz and anyone else talk. This is a team that plays for 60 minutes. Everyone else is playing for 58. That’s why we win. We play chess, and they play checkers. So, let them talk. We’ll just keep winning.
Manning makes it Wayne on 'dem hoes! Wayne on 'dem hoes! Wayne on 'dem hoes!
http://monkeybiziu.deviantart.com
by MonkeyBusiness on Nov 23, 2009 10:15 AM EST reply actions
All you people always miss the obvious
The game was altered in the 1st 4 minutes. The Colts zip down and get a TD. Clark must have got hurt because he wasn’t heard from again. His replacement did at least 3 things to keep the Colts from blowing the Raven out.
The REFS as usual helped the opponent of the Colts. After the quick TD and the Colts kicked off the Ravens DID FUMBLE THE KICKOFF. All the replays showed the guy was not down he was on the Colt players hand. The announcers all said it was a fumble and I say it was a fumble. But the stupid REFS come out and somehow say it was not a fumble.
The Colts would have gone up 14-0 in the first 5 minutes. Baltimore would have to have abandoned the run, not kicked FGs and been blown out.
by bcfjohhnyunitas on Nov 23, 2009 10:20 AM EST reply actions
clark played the whole game
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
he disappeared in last year's Ravens game
last year I had the tape to look for him and saw he was held in a TON. This year I didn’t remember to tape it, but I can say he was very rarely split out wide or in the slot.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Nov 23, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
yea, but thsi guy was implying he was injured
Anyhow, the Colts ran a lot of a rarely used formation yesterday, the trips left with Garcon, Wayne, and Clark all on the same side. They really like that formation vs 3-4 defenses. I’m not too worried about Clark not having a big game, anyhow. The Colts moved the ball, there were people opened, and the running game was working. I am concerned that illegal contact hasnt been called in a month or so.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
yeah, though as an Iowa homer I really want him to break the records
so a 1 for 3, TD, day isn’t ideal. But that stuff is secondary to the Colts winning.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Nov 23, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
he's now on pace for 104 rec, 1233yards, 6.4 TDs
TE records are 102 and 1290
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Nov 23, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
well the good thing is
you know that if he’s close, Manning and he will probably be out there in the 16th game doing what they can to get it. I know they did that with Marvin one year, just throwing like 5 yard slants every play till he got the catches he needed. Reggie one year, too. He’ll probably do it, as long as he picks up the pace.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
This.
I was pretty surprised that the fumble was overturned. “Indisputable visual evidence” my ass. That call was all about the circumstances. It was early in the game and the Colts were already winning. Giving the ball to the Ravens wouldn’t hurt anything but giving it to the Colts would potentially start a blowout.
The refs went with the safe call that would piss off the fewest number of people. Mike Pereira will fall all over himself on NFL.com to explain why it was the right call. Rinse, repeat.
Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
Slightly off-topic, but
CNN spelled our qb’s name PAYTON Manning…
><
just seen it while I was eating my awesome army breakfast.
by AbroadColtsFan on Nov 23, 2009 10:22 AM EST via mobile reply actions
We should have won easily...
This game felt like the Jags game. A few different bounces and this is a blow out. Never felt like we were in any danger of losing. That said, I sort of like not getting any credit. It’s funny. My favorite part of the preseason is that all the talking head say that this is the year that the Jags, the Titans,, the Texans finally knock off the Colts. As long as the Saints keep winning, there is no pressure on us to run the table because no one will even notice.
the Colts
are like the woman you eventually end up marrying. She’s all around great. She loves you. She’s good looking. She cooks and cleans for you. She supports you in everything you do. But every day before you marry her, you look around and you see these bombshells with tiny waists and big boobs and you’re always trying to replace her. Then you look at these women closer and they’ve got warts. Sometimes literally. Or sometimes figuratively. Sometimes they are dumber than a box of rocks. Sometimes they have BO. Bad personality, whatever.
The Colts are consistent. They aren’t always pretty, but they’re there for you in the end. Meanwhile the bombshells come and go. The steelers? Yeah, OK. The Jets? Whooops. The Patriots? Well, I guess they dominated. The Ravens? The Titans? The Texans? Now it’ll be the Saints (till they lose 3 of their last 6) and the Vikings (till they play a real team and Favre’s arm falls off). Meanwhile, the Colts will finish with the best record in football, and people will still be trying to find someone to replace them.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
The Colts
Are the Richard Lugar of the NFL.
Lugar is one of the all-time great elected officials in the USA. He’s smart, capable, clean, hard-working, honest, and all of the other things that people say they want their elected officials to be. And he’ll never be President, not in a million fucking years.
Why? Because people don’t actually like to follow someone who is too perfect. It makes them feel bad about their own lives. We want to follow people who are great, yes, but also a bit of a cheater. Or a womanizer. Or a former drug user. Anything to make us feel like we could secretly claim some sort of moral victory over them if we had to.
It’s a bit annoying to see the media go through moral histrionics when a public figure like Michael Vick or Mark Sanford falls from grace. It’s annoying for us because we already know what a great quarterback/politician is supposed to be, we have one right here and the media douchebags go out of their way to ignore it. It’s all a big puppet show. We’re not supposed to look up to people who are actually great, we’re supposed to look up to the people who are great today but will hopefully flame out tomorrow because that sells more newspapers.
But yeah, football and stuff. I guess we’ve wasted enough time worrying about the bullshit we can’t change.
Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
Richard Lugar, for all his good qualities, is one of those guys I can’t bring myself to like. He falls on the wrong side of too many issues for me.
Manning makes it Wayne on 'dem hoes! Wayne on 'dem hoes! Wayne on 'dem hoes!
http://monkeybiziu.deviantart.com
by MonkeyBusiness on Nov 23, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
a discussion like you guys are having isn't the reason the rule is in place
but even a nice one can turn ugly fast when it’s politics, which is why the no politics rule is there.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Nov 23, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
That's a good rule
Seriously, write that one down somewhere.
Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
Membership agreement
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And then where is it?
A link to the rules somewhere – anywhere – is nice for people who lack a photographic memory or belong to dozens of different blogs.
Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
Interesting
But wasn’t part of the reason Obama got elected (aside from a brilliantly run campaign) because he was perceived as being all those things?
Of course, he’s not, not even close… but he definitely had that squeaky clean honest, smart, inspiring messiah thing working for him.
Back to football, though, I think that’s part of what they hate about the Colts. The random attacks Dungy would get fit that politician mold of looking for whatever you can to tear them down, even if it’s not relevant (or true). People are tired of Peyton and tired of the Colts being the last to lose every year. That’s fine. The Patriots and Yankees and Lakers and Steelers get a lot of hate too. Nobody hates the unsuccessful teams.
This is true.
Manning makes it Wayne on 'dem hoes! Wayne on 'dem hoes! Wayne on 'dem hoes!
http://monkeybiziu.deviantart.com
by MonkeyBusiness on Nov 23, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
What happened to Clark
Where did he go? Did he get hurt?
Rewind sidebar…… The 4th and 2 by the Patriots … they didn’t make regardless of if they had a timeout for a replay. Faulk’s heel was just at 1st down line. His whole body was in front of the line. The ball was in front of his body so it was not where his heel was. He was short. Didn’t make it.
by bcfjohhnyunitas on Nov 23, 2009 10:24 AM EST reply actions
the ravens took him away
they played a lot of coverages that would double team him. My guess is they followed a lot of the Patriots gameplan from last week: hit clark at the LOS. hit clark past the LOS. Hit clark downfield. don’t get penalties called against you. Hit clark 15 yards down the LOS. Still continue to not get penalties called against you. $$$
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
I commented above that Clark was MIA for long portions of last years game as well
and just from my impression this year he was in-line a lot more than usual.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Nov 23, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
It may seem odd to say, but I hope Santi plays more.
Seems they would have to pay more attention to him as a receiving threat than Gijon, which would take pressure off Clark.
Santi will come around, he probably just needs game reps.
The only thing I worry about is he seems injury-prone.
by HoosierHorseman on Nov 23, 2009 10:42 AM EST reply actions
Media.
We don’t get the benefit of positive media coverage due to fact that we win 12+ games every year – starting off on some stretch of being undefeated – and then lose 1st round. Long time fans should easily understand that. If you watch every play of every game like I do, most of the time I walk away wondering how the f*** we won that game. Other teams writers are no different.
Like me, most pundits could care less about what we do in the regular season. Show me Super Bowls.
by I'm Not Alone, I'm Just Blue on Nov 23, 2009 11:21 AM EST reply actions
The reaction to this article would be different
if you (BBS) didn’t use unimaginative terms like “idiot” or write in as definitive and emotional a stance as the Colts’ supposed detractors. Why can’t you “respectfully disagree,” or simply suggest evidence to the contrary? To do so would invite discussion, not make you look like you’re just in the opposite corner of the same boxing ring.
I happen to agree with you, that the Colts didn’t get thoroughly outplayed, but there are more objective ways to say so.
How can you not love a team that does this?
Outplayed by the Ravens
Paul,
Which game were you watching? I will grant you that there were some breakdowns on both sides of the ball. I still feel that the sign of a great team is the way they come up with a win. At the start of the season, we all knew that there could be some rough patches, with a rook RB and having to rely on the passing game. Give them their due, the Colts are unbeaten. End of story.
Thanks,
SuaveDoggie
For the record:
Kuharsky had much praise for how the Colts performed in his video piece with James Walker:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/6062/video-colts-ravens-rewind
Also, he just recently put up a post with quite a bit of praise for how Manning performs in the red zone:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/6070/situational-manning
He may be spreading his balance on the issue across multiple pieces, but overall, my take is that Kuharsky is not only quite respectful of what the Colts are doing, but is also quite impressed by it.
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"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."
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