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The MVP Debate - Down to 2

The Colts and Saints are the first teams in NFL history to enter Week 14 undefeated at the same time. In past years, we've had teams that have managed to win 13 straight games to start the season, but never two at the same time. This says alot about the level of coaching, quality of players, and the ability to bring it every week.

These two teams actually mirror each other quite well in some regards:

 

Both have Pro Bowl, record setting Quarterbacks

Both have brand new defensive coordinators that have had a profound impact on this year's team

Both have top notch offenses

Both have good, solid Head Coaches who are willing to trust their players

 

So now we come to the heart of the debate, the MVP race. Sure, there are a few other players whose names you could throw in the mix. Adrian Peterson, Brett Favre, Chris Johnson, and for the sake of argument, Phillip Rivers. Unfortunately, none of those players by themselves, are as individually important to their team's success as Drew Brees and Peyton Manning.

Peterson - Led the league in rushing last year despite a fairly average passing attack and stellar defense.

Favre - Has one of the top rated defenses in the league, one of the best RB's in the league, and has a QB on the bench who was the starter last year.

Chris Johnson - was a running force duo with LenDale White last year.

Phillip Rivers - was actually lost in the playoffs along with LT and the Chargers won handily over the Colts.

So while all of these guys are playing very, very, very good....the loss to their teams while big, would not immediately derail their postseason. However, Brees and Manning ARE the reasons as to why their respective teams are undefeated.

 

Drew Brees

The biggest single difference for the NFC's #1 passer is the way his team is playing on defense. Virtually the same team personnel wise from last year's 8-8 team, this year's team has been transformed by the arrival of Gregg Williams. This has enabled Brees to play under less stress of having to carry the team on his own.

  • 69.9% Completion
  • 3,832 yards at 8.9 ypc
  • 294.8 ypg averaging 33.2 passes per game
  • Passer Rating: 112.3% 
  • 32 TDs - 10 INTs - 4 Fumbles Lost
  • Sacked 15 times for 99 yards lost
  • #1 Offense overall, #1 Scoring offense,  #3 Passing offense, and #5 Rushing offense
  • #4 Offense on 3rd Down Conversion
  • Overall Opponents Record: 68-101
  • Has played 2 of the Top 10 scoring defenses (will play a 3rd this weekend)
  • Has played 6 of the Top 15 overall defenses (will play a 7th this weekend)
  • Has played 6 games vs. Top 15 scoring offenses (will play a 7th this weekend)
  • NFC South more
    Team W L T Win %
    New Orleans 13 0 0 1.000
    Atlanta 6 7 0 .462
    Carolina 5 8 0 .385
    Tampa Bay 1 12 0 .077

 

Peyton Manning

Last year's MVP, he started off on a torrid pace of throwing the ball. He's cooled as of late, but that hasn't stopped him from marching higher in the record books. No Marvin Harrison, no Anthony Gonzalez, two players with zero starts at WR, no problem. He's your league leader in yards, 2nd in TD's, and still is one of the least sacked QB's in the NFL.

  • 68.1% Completion (Prior to the Broncos game, this was 70.4%)
  • 3,905 yards at 7.8 ypc
  • 300.4 ypg average 38.6 passes per game
  • Passer Rating 98.9
  • 29 TDs - 14 INTs - 0 Fumbles Lost
  • Sacked 10 times for 74 yards lost
  • #4 Overall offense, #5 Scoring offense, #1 Passing offense, and #30 Rushing offense
  • #1 Offense on 3rd Down Conversion
  • Overall Opponents Record: 81-88
  • Has played 4 of the Top 10 scoring defenses
  • Has played 4 of the Top 15 overall defenses
  • Has played 7 games vs. Top 15 scoring offenses
  • AFC South more
    Team W L T Win %
    Indianapolis 13 0 0 1.000
    Jacksonville 7 6 0 .538
    Tennessee 6 7 0 .462
    Houston 6 7 0 .462

 

***Overall record of opponents was calculated by adding up number of wins for each team that was played. This DOES include any team that was played twice.***

 

Looking at all of these stats, there are 3 significant differences in these two comparisons

  • The Colts have played much better competition thru the first 13 games. This is no way the fault of the Saints, but the tougher competition has hurt Manning's stats far more than Brees.
  • While Brees has fewer INT's than Manning, both QB's have 14 turnovers a piece.
  • The Saints offense as a whole is able to take more of the load off of Brees due to their ability to run the ball. The two single worst games of the season for Manning include a 345 yard and no TD/no INT game....and 220 yard and 4TD/3 INT game. Brees worst games include 2 games where he failed to throw a TD or generate 200 yards passing, and a 1 TD/3 INT game against the Dolphins.

 

Ultimately, you can argue the stats until you are blue in the face. You can make all the arguments about Brees or Manning and odds are, you'd be right about what you say.

However, here's what you cannot change....

Manning has had to do more with a lot less. Defenses have known the Colts would not or could not run constantly and still could not stop Manning. Manning is without his #2 and #3 WR's from a year ago. His running game is one of the worst in the league. Yet, he is the least sacked QB in the league (playing all 13 games). He has averaged 300 throwing yards per game.

Let's do this in reverse. Take your team, whoever you root for. Let's use the Cardinals for this example. You will lose (#2) Anquan Boldin and  (#3) Steve Breaston for the year. Now, let's see Warner throw almost 4000 yards while only being sacked 10 times.

It just goes without saying that the Colts and Saints both rely very heavily on their QB's. Both teams would be extremely lucky to win a playoff game with their backup QB as the starter, let alone make it to the SB.

As a Colts fan, it would be easy to label me a Homer in picking Manning. That is okay with me. However, I would be just as happy to see Brees and Manning share this. Personally, I think Manning has had to more this year by himself than he had to do last year, when he actually won the MVP.

Please feel free to discuss.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors.

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Peyton deserves MVP absolutely.

Your post was well thought out. Thanks.

"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
"As I grow older, the list of people who can kiss my ass grows longer"-Ancient Hoosier Proverb.

by Indy Lori on Dec 15, 2009 5:33 PM EST reply actions  

LOOL

Great points. I think the MOST important stat is the strength of schedule Manning has faced. That gives it to him.

My ONLY disagreement was that Gonzo and Marvin were not 2 and 3 last year. Youre forgetting Dallas Clark. Although not listed as an official wide receiver hes a huge manning Target. I’d also put Rhodes or Addai in the mix before Marvin, who did nothing except drop a few TD’s in the end zone last year.(i love him to death, but he was tooo injury plagued) So i would say we lost our #3 reciever(gonzo) and # 5 (marvin)

Actually marvin is in like a 2 way tie for 4th with rhodes. thats fair

(my Dad about to place a bet)"Hey Karim who do you like in the Colts Game?" "I dont know dad, Haydens out, so is Gonzalez, Bracket, Sanders, Jackson, and maybe Freeney" Dad-"Is Manning playing?" Me-"Yeah".. "Lets go with Indy"

by KarimTheDream on Dec 16, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Great comparison and I think they're both pretty even right now. Manning's my MVP obviously.

However, I disagree with this: “Phillip Rivers – was actually lost in the playoffs along with LT and the Chargers won handily over the Colts.”

That was in 07 and they didn’t win “handily.” The only reason Rivers isn’t in the discussion is that his team has lost three games. He has a worse rushing offense than us and has put up really impressive numbers. He would be number three on my MVP list.

by diagenesis on Dec 15, 2009 6:00 PM EST reply actions  

The Rivers Comment

Was merely to point out that they have a very capable QB on the bench in Volek. The guy can straight up play, and despite no LT and no Rivers for basically an entire half in 2007, our defense could not stop him.

Ultimately, while Volek is no Rivers……Volek is still the best backup QB on any team capable of making the playoffs this year….in either conference….

by DevilsReject on Dec 15, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

It was a quarter

and they had one good drive in that quarter. They won that game becuase Phil Rivers went off before he got hurt.

EVH+DLR=BFFr........ God I Hope So!!

by dmstorm22 on Dec 16, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm going to laugh if Peyton doesn't get MVP

because this whole site is so biased in this MVP talk it is insane. You guys could try to take a less biased approach but then again your votes don’t matter towards who gets MVP. But I will give you credit, DevilsReject, because you at least take an approach that almost gives the other guy credit, just not so much.

by dolphinsinbuffalo on Dec 15, 2009 7:39 PM EST reply actions  

Remember 2004?

Peyton set the NFL TD Mark as well as set the single season Passer Rating record.

Everybody forgets that Daunte Culpepper also had a monster, record setting year.

Culpepper enjoyed his best statistical season as a professional in 2004 and, though they were only 8-8, the Vikings reached the playoffs for the second time with Culpepper. Passing for a league-leading 4,717 yards, a Viking-record 39 touchdowns, and only 11 interceptions, Culpepper was named to his third career Pro Bowl. Culpepper also broke Dan Marino’s NFL record for combined passing and rushing yards, amassing 5,123 total yards.

Breaking 2 of the NFL’s best records is what got Manning the MVP that year. Culpepper was a beast that year, especially in a dual of the top 2 QB’s in the game vs. the Colts that year.

This is why I think Peyton edges Brees here….but this is one of those where you could flip a coin and you really would get it right…

by DevilsReject on Dec 15, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Very true. But I wouldn't count out Favre or even Rivers.

Although they are very unlikely cases, you never know. I think that maybe the coin that will be flipped has 4 sides. Maybe there will be a CO-MVP season with Brees and Peyton. It’s all up in the air but I still think just deciding Manning will get it isn’t the way to go either.

by dolphinsinbuffalo on Dec 15, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Bias goes both ways bucko

And you seem to be biased about our bias. Sorry it’s been a 10+ years since you’ve had a relevant quarterback under center. But DevilsReject gives a very objective breakdown of the facts. Where does he not give Brees his due? Those are the facts, and when you look at them, you can see that Manning is more VALUABLE to his team. And I love Brees. Manning could possibly throw for more yards and touchdowns, even despite all the disadvantages he’s had this year.

Oh, and one thing that can’t be shown in stats – Manning’s line vs. Brees’ line. Manning has been sacked less behind a line that routinely allows penetration, and has thrown it almost just as well.

I also wish I had time and motivation to blog at Speed Blue Nation

by Bullard47 on Dec 16, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions  

its gonna be manning-brees co-mvps

"You only get intercepted when you don't know what your doing, I knew what I was Doing".
Johnny Unitas
---UHHHHHH I GOT MY JACK "THE ASSASSIN" TATUM JERSEY!!!!!!! SO FRESH AN SO CLEAN CLEAN SO FRESH AND SO CLEAN---

by 805 on Dec 15, 2009 9:11 PM EST reply actions  

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