All the silly love for Sean Payton and the Saints compared to the hate towards Jim Caldwell and the Colts
by BigBlueShoe on Dec 7, 2009 12:30 PM EST
in Colts Analysis
62 comments
I'm not going to list articles and writers just to bash them for their stupidity on the subject of resting starters because, apparently, many of you out there are sick of me pointing a bright light on "bad journalism" topics. I'm also not going to go into any log diatribe on the silly, over-discussed topic of sitting or resting starters during meaningless games. This is all you need to know on the subject:
The press are going to absolutely LOVE Sean Payton and the Saints if they attempt to go for an undefeated regular season record, even if they lock up homefield weeks before the regular season ends.
Why? Because it gives them a story.
An undefeated regular season provides them something fun and tangible to write about. Of course, if during those meaningless games we see Drew Brees re-injure his shoulder (as he did in a meaningless game to close out the 2005 season when he was with the Chargers) or if Pierre Thomas blows out his ACL, then all this "love" the press are giving to the Saints will evaporate when a team like the Vikings or the Cardinals walk into the Super Dome and beat the Saints because they aren't healthy enough.
But hey, why worry about the future? Go for greatness now (aka, give us something to write about now, not in a month!).
Meanwhile, on the other side, the press will predictably boo and bemoan Jim Caldwell for resting starters because A) That's boring for them to report, and B) Because it makes the Colts' late season match-ups less exciting. Forget that in 2003 and 2004, the Colts rested players prior to the playoffs and went on to win playoff games in dominating fashion. The press and other media will claim that when the Colts rested starters in other years (2005 and 2007, specifically) they lost their first game in the playoffs to supposedly inferior teams. Left out of the discussion, conveniently, is the fact that in 2005 Tony Dungy's son hanged himself in late-December, creating a horrific distraction for the team just prior to the playoffs, likely contributing to their Division Round loss to the eventual world champion Pittsburgh Steelers. Also left out is the fact that in 2007, the Colts limped into the post-season without Dwight Freeney (gone for the year) and with a severely injured Robert Mathis, Marvin Harrison, and Raheem Brock.
Little details like these tend to get pushed aside by media who are simply wanting "a good story."
Bottom line here is the media will praise the team that tries to go undefeated and bash the one that looks to keep players fresh and healthy for a post-season run. The irony behind all of this is for all the bile the media has thrown at the NFL for their polices to keep players healthy in terms of concussions, they seem perfectly fine exposing healthy (or even injured) players to injury in meaningless games that affect nothing in the standings.
In the end, the teams that are the healthiest are usually the ones that make it to the Super Bowl, and playing important players in meaningless game is not a formula for keeping the team healthy come playoff time.
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Not wanting to argue
However, I think it should be a strategic resting of the players. While you want them to be fresh, you also do not want their timing off. Peyton has a well known clock and it is obvious that getting back into rythm takes some time. It seems like we should play starters the first half and then rest them.
I have no interest in 16-0 if a SuperBowl run is on the horizon but the years they rested for extended periods, they seemed to come out a little flat where others who played every week seemed to be hitting on all cylinders. It seems as if there should be some kind of happy medium. While I know no one here makes those decisions, the fans obviously have a reason for concern on these types of strategies.
Not in 07
We didn’t come out flat in 07 and would have been up big on them early had it not been for Marvin’s very unfortunate fumble on the second drive. Add to that Kenton Keith’s stone cold hands and the lack of pass rush (as BBS mentioned), and that’s why we lost in 07. I’ll give you 05, but I blame that game on distraction, a terrible performance by the O-line, Nick Harper’s wife, and Vandershank.
People love to forget that in the first two games of our Super Bowl run, our offense did practically nothing. We won those games with Defense. Our offense didn’t come on until the second half of the AFC championship.
To me, that’s the biggest case for rest. We need a healthy D. That’s why we won the Super Bowl, and that’s why we lost in 07. Last year’s team was clearly one of our weaker teams in the last 5 years, and we lost because we couldn’t run for 2 yards. The trend (as Peter King would put it) is damning, but it’s all perception. I think this team could play for 16-0 and not encumber any major injuries and possibly still end up the same in the postseason as they would if they rested. I don’t think it makes a huge difference for a team that is always prepared, but I’d much rather have a healthy/rested defense just so we don’t have an E.J. Henderson-type incident that would ruin our chances in the playoffs.
I've been saying this over and over
to anyone who will listen. It’s not even a matter of “rest” per se, as much as “keeping the ACLs your franchise is built on off the field when they’re not needed”.
Great article BBS. I’ve been one of the complainers about the bad journalism pieces. This isn’t one of them. I wholeheartedly approve of articles that demonstrate why a colt-based perspective is necessary to understand a particular view. In this case, the view of “don’t rest the players.” This was an interesting critique of a media perspective, it didn’t have any name-calling, and it contained substantive analysis. Great job.
Rec’d
Don't think the love for Payton and Saints is silly. It's well deserved. They're a different team than us.
They might need the 16-0, we don’t. And recently, I’ve seen plenty of love for Caldwell.
I’m with Caldwell and Polian on resting players that need rest and not risking our starters in meaningless games. We’ll still play to win, of course.
People forget their history
Here is what bugs me about all the people bashing the Colts for allegedly not playing for perfection:
In 2005, they DID play for perfection. It was Game 14, the Colts were 13-0 and had clinched everything. In came the Chargers. The Colts rallied to take an early fourth-quarter lead, then the Chargers kicked a FG and had an 85-yard Michael Turner run to pull out a 26-17 win.
The Colts played hard and played all their starters. It was the next week, in a meaningless game at Seattle that they rested everyone.
I see no evidence that the Colts will simply pack it in should they enter a game unbeaten. They will likely rest key people at key stretches, but can’t see them yanking Manning after a series or not playing to win. Also, if AG is back, he will need some work with Peyton.
Now, should the Colts lose a game, we’ll see more of Manning on the sidelines than on the field.
Well,
what would you say about logs anyway? Sure, they’re wooden, I’ll give you that. You can get a couple paragraphs off of that with the paper applications and all. I guess they can block roads after a huge storm and cause trouble for drivers, but otherwise, there’s not much to talk about concerning logs.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: In England, the Speaker of the House is not allowed to speak.
At first I thought this was spam, until I saw it was written by Cassieper. But what in the world are you talking about?
I was making a few
jokes off of this:
I’m also not going to go into any log diatribe on the silly, over-discussed topic of sitting or resting starters during meaningless games.
I thought it was somewhat funny, but now see how people would be confused if they didn’t notice.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: In England, the Speaker of the House is not allowed to speak.
Glad someone got it.
It’s not funny if you get accused of spam and have to explain the joke..
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: In England, the Speaker of the House is not allowed to speak.
yea clever stuff
thats a michael silver bash
by minigenius1246 on Dec 7, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: In England, the Speaker of the House is not allowed to speak.
Gonzo and resting players...
In the event the Colts are undefeated after obtaining homefield advantage, I think the Colts will limit players, not necessarily not play them at all. If/WhenGonzo comes back, we should see him play a lot and limit more of Wayne and Clark. But they still should see their fair share of reps. I really think Manning will play more than people expect, not because he’ll be going after the perfect season, but more of getting as much reps with Collie, Garcon, and hopefully Gonzalez before the postseason. If this occurs, then the Colts would still be a favorite in each game. However, I think the two players they will and should be extemely cautious about is Freeney and Mathis. I think we’ll also see more players on Defense being limited than on Offense.
by ColtsFanNChiTown on Dec 7, 2009 1:49 PM EST reply actions
oh come on
who even cares? you always make such a big deal about this, but it it is irrelevant. of course the media wants a good story. they are the media! that’s what they do. anytime a team greatly exceeds expectations or their historical performance, it will overshadow other stories. and diagenesis is right: the saints love isn’t silly. we are two very good and very different teams. even if an ‘expert’ picks the saints as more likely to go 16-0, they almost always state it is because the saints need it more since minnesota is so close to new orleans and they can’t afford to miss out on homefield advantage, while we have essentially wrapped it up already. they don’t ‘hate’ the colts. just because others disagree with you doesn’t mean they are stupid, even if you like to repeatedly say so.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Stan Musial
Actually
They do come off as if they hate the Colts and hope by picking against them that the Colts will lose!
by SupermanWearsBobSander'sPJs on Dec 7, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
05
Don’t forget that against the Steelers, the Colts had a chance to tie the game with a field goal. As we remember from a few weeks ago when Kris Brown missed a field goal to tie, the Colts were deemed lucky to win. Assuming they applied the same unshakable principles, the pundits surely concluded that the Colts loss was simply a matter of bad luck.
What the hells wrong with you wer never supposed to speak of field goals or anything from that season or before cuz it reminds us of you know who
jk but u reminded me of him thanks for ruining my day
"You only get intercepted when you don't know what your doing, I knew what I was Doing".
Johnny Unitas
---UHHHHHH I GOT MY JACK "THE ASSASSIN" TATUM JERSEY!!!!!!! SO FRESH AN SO CLEAN CLEAN SO FRESH AND SO CLEAN---
by 805 on Dec 7, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
While i'm against resting players...
I dislike having a bye of 2 wks. I think this Colts team can beat the trend of shaky starts they’ve had in the past. We are just more resourceful than all previous Colts team.
Whatever they decide to do I'm going to be behind them.
I’m a fan, and If the players trust Jim Caldwell, (which they’ve proven they do), then I trust him to do whatever is best for the team.
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
"As I grow older, the list of people who can kiss my ass grows longer"-Ancient Hoosier Proverb.
^^this^^
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Dec 7, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed!
Let’s not forget the the last team that went for perfection (patriots) lost in the superbowl!!
Maybe this team is better than that one
Maybe this team is capable of proving themselves to be the greatest team of all time.
Maybe it’s worth the gamble to give them that chance.
by HoosierHorseman on Dec 7, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe they are.
But what happens if the Colts ‘rest’ players again and they come out flat with their timing slightly off and lose to San Diego again, God forbid? Do we ‘rest’ players again next year when we’re in a similar situation?? And, the year after? How many years does this have to happen before they try a different tactic?
No, I'm agreeing with you.
I think the opportunity of going 19-0 should not be passed up.
Lots of teams have won superbowls, only one has had a perfect season.
It’s the holy grail of football. I hate this gutless attitude of not even trying.
by HoosierHorseman on Dec 7, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with you completely.
I’m just adding an additional comment.
Well,
it wouldn’t be San Diego. They are going to be the #2 or #3 seed, and we won’t play them until the AFC Championship game.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: In England, the Speaker of the House is not allowed to speak.
If they make it that far...
we WILL win. I just know this. I feel it in my bones.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Dec 7, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
What about your skin?
Does your skin not feel it?
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: In England, the Speaker of the House is not allowed to speak.
Ohhh
my skin feels it. You betcha!
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Dec 7, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Just have to say one thing
Well, more than one since I’ll be linking what BBS was alluding to.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/12/06/mmqb/index.html
“Sean Payton: “We’re going for it.‘’
Payton’s about to have a lot more admirers around the United States. He told me Saturday he’s not going to take the foot off the accelerator down the stretch, not even if the Saints have homefield advantage clinched in the NFC playoffs. The Saints, instead of taking the last game or two to let players heal for the playoffs, will try to make history if they’re in position. They’re aiming for a perfect season.”
And for the one thing I have to say… This is a BLOG, BBS is a BLOGGER. He can write whatever he wants. Yes, you can bitch about it however much or little you like, but you’re responding to a blogger who can write whatever he wants about. To be perfectly honest, people bitching about what he writes is way more annoying than anything I’ve seen him write. And I rarely agree with what he has to say. I guess in a way, I’m bitching about the bitching about the bitching, but whatever.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
+1
I agree. I find the complaining more annoying than the original articles.
by SupermanWearsBobSander'sPJs on Dec 7, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
And how's it gonna look if the Colts forfeit their last 3 games, and then lose in the SuperBowl to
the Undefeated Saints anyway? Can you say LOSER? Nothing is guaranteed. The Colts can stay in bed for two weeks and then still lose while the Saints are winning it all.
It looks chickens***. And it is.
by HoosierHorseman on Dec 7, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
I'm getting sick...
Of hearing you bitching about other people bitching about BBS’s bitching about shitty journalism. SO THERE! :-P
by peytonsurdaddy on Dec 7, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i understand that he can write what he wants
but there is nothing wrong with me disagreeing. i’m being honest here about how i feel. it’s not like i act childish and call others stupid or silly. it’s about football, not oneupmanship. i do love the colts, and i will go with whatever they decide. in polian i trust. but at least understand that articles like this really make us colts fans look petty. its a total lack of objectivity.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Stan Musial
i want them to play the whole 16 games even if we dont go undefeated,
i just want them to be hot in the playoffs. and as long as gonzo doesnt start after coming from an injury and mess the whole playoffs for us like marvin did when he came back and his first reception was a fumble and lost us the first game in the playoffs against the chargers WHAYYYYYYYYYYY MARVIN WHAYYYYYYY?!!!!!!!
"You only get intercepted when you don't know what your doing, I knew what I was Doing".
Johnny Unitas
---UHHHHHH I GOT MY JACK "THE ASSASSIN" TATUM JERSEY!!!!!!! SO FRESH AN SO CLEAN CLEAN SO FRESH AND SO CLEAN---
by 805 on Dec 7, 2009 2:43 PM EST reply actions
wow really..... finally somebody agrees. if what we think happens i got no doubts about the superbowl itll be ours
"You only get intercepted when you don't know what your doing, I knew what I was Doing".
Johnny Unitas
---UHHHHHH I GOT MY JACK "THE ASSASSIN" TATUM JERSEY!!!!!!! SO FRESH AN SO CLEAN CLEAN SO FRESH AND SO CLEAN---
by 805 on Dec 7, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
There is one thing that no one can deny.
Any team that goes undefeated and wins the Super Bowl, especially a team in the middle of the longest winning streak in the history of the league, has a legitimate claim to the title of the greatest team of all time, and will be legendary.
No guts, no glory.
And I’m not buying the BS that no one remembers an undefeated season. That’s BS.
They always do.
by HoosierHorseman on Dec 7, 2009 3:18 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
this!!!!!!
For once, I would just like to see the killer instinct for every game and see what happens…….‘rip their heads off and sh*t down their f**king necks! Keep the pedal down for every game and go for the jugler ’till the Colts win the superbowl again! Also, the wins/losses overall record for the Colts this decade could be so much better if we didn’t always throw the last few games…..another small consideration.
Im gonna have to agree.
It would be different if the Colts didn’t have that recent Super Bowl win under their belts. I mean they would go down as the best team of the salary cap era. Other teams could challenge they record, but its seems like there are going to be inflated pay rolls for large market teams in the future. But going undefeated with all of the rules trying to even out the playing field would be a truly memorable accomplishment.
Ditka just said 'shame on them' if they don't go for it.
Obviously, from the above comments, I feel the same.
I would rec this a million fucking times if I could.
KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by peytonsurdaddy on Dec 7, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Go for the undefeated season
Don’t turn down a chance for history. Injuries happen. Shit happens. IIRC the Giants had a cornerback get hurt in the Giants-Pats game in Week 17. That didn’t hurt them at all. I wouldn’t criticize Caldwell if he played the starters in Week 17 against the Bills if they were 15-0 and Addai or Mathis got hurt. It’s football. Injuries will happen. You just do not turn down a chance for a perfect season. That’s ridiculous.
"Brett Favre was a man who thought he was retired, but he knew it wouldn't last."
One name...
Jim F#%*!@G Sorgi…he will save us all.
by MetalGearPeaceWalker on Dec 7, 2009 8:32 PM EST reply actions
Wildcat play
designed for Jim Sorgi…the sky will open up, thunder will roll…children will forget Santa Claus and look up to a new legend that is #12.
by MetalGearPeaceWalker on Dec 8, 2009 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
Play the starters for the first half
AT LEAST. If you REALLY want to rest them at least let them keep their rhythm. If we win this weekend and wrap up homefield do you really want to see the colts not play another game for A MONTH? That’s ludicrous and is a recipe for disaster. Maybe rest people the last game of the season, but as far as I’m concerned, I wouldn’t rest anyone unless they’re nicked up.
Have you seen the injury list?
At this point in the season, at least half the team is nicked up. I’d love to see us go undefeated, but I’d rather drop a regular season game than fail like the Pats did and lose the Super Bowl. But can we please at least win at Denver to break that Pats win streak of regular season games?
by True Blue Colts on Dec 7, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure this has been covered already
but I wonder how the rest of the team feels about rest vs. unbeaten season…I got to believe Caldwell wouldn’t cross Peyton if #18 wanted to go the distance.
by MetalGearPeaceWalker on Dec 7, 2009 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
That one big injury, that one big season
Just wondering, don’t follow AFC much, who is your backup quarterback? Guess I could have looked that up myself. Drew Brees in our chosen messiah (sorry about the no religion rule lapse), but Mark Brunnel still has a sermon or two left in the tank. Payton sez he is going for it, of course, only losers plan to lose, but the injured are not being rushed back untill there is no tommorrow, and it seems only common sense to knock the rust off your back-up QB before the playoffs are actually on.
by PanheadCatahoula on Dec 8, 2009 11:58 AM EST reply actions
Jim Sorgi who is also hurt. Clipboard injury.
Right now our back up in Curtis Painter – a rookie that has not had a single snap in the regular season. He played decently in pre season.
Peyton will play a half in all of our games, except maybe the Buffalo one, if we’re resting.
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