Anthony Gonzalez still not ready to practice or play
by BigBlueShoe on Dec 8, 2009 1:33 PM EST
in Colts News
61 comments
On the Bill Polian Show last night, the big redhead gave us a few updates on the status of players, like injured wide receiver Anthony Gonzalez, who has not played since he suffered a a knee injury in Week One against the Jaguars. Per usual, John Oehser does the yeoman's work, picking out the important quotes from the show and transcribing them for us lazy bastards who would rather play Left 4 Dead 2 than listen to Bill talk about the "pragnosticators," the "pundits," and the "Pa-tree-ots." Love that Hard Rain campaign:
Gonzalez, who began the season as the Colts’ starting wide receiver opposite three-time Pro Bowl wide receiver Reggie Wayne, sustained a knee injury in that game. After having a setback, Gonzalez has yet to play, and Polian said the hope is still that he will return this season."Anthony is a bit behind schedule," Polian said Monday on his weekly radio show on Hank FM 97.1 in Indianapolis. "We thought perhaps that he might be back starting to practice this week, but as you know, he had a setback. He had to have some arthroscopic surgery to just tweak the knee a little bit. My hope is that we get a breakthrough here one of these weeks and that he’ll be back before the season is over.
"Part of the problem here – and it’s true with any injured player – is the doctors give you a prognosis, but it’s only that. It’s a prognosis. It’s an estimate. Players heal – and human beings heal – at different rates. Anthony’s just been a little slow coming around. But we know what the issue is and we know it will come around probably sooner rather than later and we’re hopeful it will be even quicker than that."
Here is what I do not want: A repeat of the Marvin Harrison situation in 2007. If Gonzo cannot play by Week Seventeen, he should be IRed. While I absolutely love Gonzo and think he is a very good football player, the fact of the matter is the Colts have not missed him. They currently have the #2 passing offense in football, averaging 309 yards a game with 8 yards per completion. Pierre Garçon and Austin Collie have developed very well, and a big reason for their quick development has been the unfortunate absence of Gonzo. Hank Baskett, signed after Gonzo went down, has also played well on special teams.
While it seems Polian holds out hope that Gonzo will pull a Brandon Stokley, circa 2003, I am not holding my breath. If Gonzo comes back, then GREAT! I am as happy as a clam. However, if Gonzo is not playing in a live game by Week Seventeen, my sense is to IR him. Why have the distraction of "Will he? Won't he?" looming over the team as they enter the post-season, especially since Garçon and Collie have played so well.
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Yeah, I saw that.
I just hope he’s able to play a little in the Jets and Bills game. I just don’t want his first game to be a playoff game.
at least two games
given how much of our pass game depends on timing, I think he’d need at least those two games with peyton to get back into rhythm of things. I would rather see garcon, who has improved all season keep going than bring in a rusty out of sync player irrelevant of how good he might be.
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing...
I agree with you 100%..... I would also add that Gonzo is overrated
Sorry folks. But people are forgetting that coming into this season there were questions if Gonzalez could be a credible #2 receiver. I’m not even sure he should be #2 if he cameback. He MIGHT become a better player that he has been so far, but so far Pierre Garcon has produced better overall stats, more big-play ability than Gonzo ever has had or shown. He also compares well to Reggie Wayne’s first full season as a starter (his 3rd season):
Anthony Gonzalez’s career stats:
G Rec Yds Y/G Avg Lng YAC 1stD TD
As Starter 11 43 641 58.3 14.9 57 4.3 32 - 4
Pierre Garcon’s career stats:
G Rec Yds Y/G Avg Lng YAC 1stD TD
As Starter 11 40 686 62.4 17.2 66 6.5 28 - 4
Reggie Wayne’s 3rd year:
G Rec Yds Y/G Avg Lng YAC 1stD TD
As Starter 16 68 838 52.4 12.3 57 2.9 49 - 7
My biggest critique has been his drops, but he has improve significantly these past few games having over 100 yds in 2 out of the last 3 games. He simply has shown more potential and if Gonzo comes back, he should be the 3rd receiver. Otherwise I think he’ll affect our rhythm.
I don’t know if it is fair to compare AGO’s stats from last year’s performance against garcon this year.
In 07, our 12-4 record was the result of some serious over-achieving. It was a miracle that that team played as well as it did. Manning wasn’t himself until week 6 or 7, the offensive line was horrendous all year; unlike this year, we didn’t have a remotely functional running game, and the defense was far weaker. Given those liabilities I think that gonzalez’s numbers were amazing. I also think that if he had the same opportunities as Garcon this year he would have done significantly better than garcon.
I really like Garcon as a player. But, Gonzalez is simply a better route runner and on the colt’s that is more important than your raw speed and athleticism.
Manning's injury in '08 not '07
We actually finished 13-3 in 2007 and won the division title.
Not the same situation
Those numbers are taken out of context. And I’m not exactly sure where you’re getting this notion of not having the potential for big plays from. First off, he was injured in his rookie season and missed time. He was also a rookie. Secondly, aside from a play where we caught San Diego not paying attention with a 70+ yard TD to Wayne, he’s been the best Colts receiver in the playoffs by far. It’s only two games, but it’s two playoff games.
Not to mention that right now Peyton HAS to trust Collie and Garcon, he has no choice. But even when Marvin and Reggie were both playing, he threw to Gonzo because he trusted him.
Pretty sure 1:10 and 1:40’s some pretty “big play” type stuff. And 3:10 is just straight football smarts. Or football luck, I’ll take either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B_I9THiv5Y
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
you are missing a huge factor that gets left out of WR stats too often
targets.
Garcon has been targeted 80 times this year. He has 43 catches for 710 yards and 4 TDs
Gonzo was targeted 79 times in 08. He had 57 catches for 664 yards and 5 TDs.
Gonzo’s hands have been so much more reliable, and he was great at picking up key yardage. Check out FO’s stats on the two of them. Gonzo’s efficiency was crazy.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
Yep. This last playoff loss wasn’t the first time I thought our receivers didn’t show up in the playoffs. Reggie lost one in the lights that would’ve been a TD and dropped one for a key third down. Marvin had a history of it. And in 2007, I’m just going to flat out say our defense and Peyton didn’t lose that game, our receivers did. All but Gonzalez. Dallas is clutch too. But I honestly feel…comfortable I guess, when Gonzo is in there. When it was getting down late, and I thought we needed a big catch, towards the end of last season I honestly thought it’d be him. I rewatched games the entire offseason, he’s insane at breaking off a route and coming get a reception on a broken play or a blitz. His 1st down % is pretty high too I believe. His football IQ is extremely high. Not to mention that everyone can say whatever they want, once Roy Hall got the boot, he’s our fastest receiver. Just because he’s deceptive with his speed doesn’t mean he’s not fast. Dallas is one of the fastest TEs in the league and he never looks like he’s running faster than a LB, but he is. You can see his speed in the video I just put up.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
There are too many variables not factored into a catch rate
I think It’s too early in their careers to reliably use this statistic. A few things of many you would have to factor in:
1. You first have to know how many of those throws are drops, bad Manning throws or plain good defense? I know he’s dropped many in his earlier games, but I know Manning has thrown bad balls (i.e. he placed the ball behind Garcon when it should’ve been in front of him.).
2. What is the rate in games that Gonzalez actually played against a secondary second best cover guy, versus the third best cover, a safety or a linebacker? Gonzo should have had an easier time catching the ball against weaker opposition. Most teams usually have at most one good cover guy, tops two. You really think opponents are going to put their #2 corner on Gonzo, instead of covering Wayne or Harrison?? That’s why i’m factoring in the games where they both started, because it places them as being the second best receiver going against their better coverage personnel.
3. How many reps has Garcon had with Manning last year or this preason prior to this season? Fact is, he has had a couple of people ahead of him before he had anything thrown his way in practice: Reggie, Marvin, Gonzalez, Clark. So likely he has had less time to build chemistry with Manning.
Thus far, in overall statistics, Garcon has had a bigger impact. Players are more likely to improve on catch rate with time than improve their athletic ability. So Garcon is more likely to improve on his catch rate, than Gonzo can speed and athleticism.
Finally, Pierre has improved on making catches the last three games. Pending continued consistency on his catch rate, he has outplayed Gonzo overall. So that’s why I think he’s more likely to be a better receiver.
for more context in the stats I pointed to FO
which accounts for the strength of the opposing pass Ds, factors in the catch rate, as well as the down/distance.
Gonzo blew away most of the league in efficiency his first two years.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
and also I'm not saying that catch rate is everything
but that number of targets are an important part of the picture. You don’t deal with context issues by using less information.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
Uh…Gonzalez is more athletic and faster than Garcon so…what exactly is your point? You cite a small sample size to back your point and then say “Thus far, in overall statistics, Garcon has had a bigger impact.”
Well, in overall eyeball watching, Gonzalez catches pretty much everything thrown his way and Garcon drops balls. Gonzalez makes spectacular catches and gets behind defenses. I’m not saying I’m hating on Garcon, but you’re comparing someone who was either a rookie receiver (2007) or the third receiver (2008) to somebody that’s been the starting #2 receiver this season. Of course his numbers are going to be higher. Did you just completely ignore that I said Peyton is only 55 pass attempts away from his 2007 total? That’s the only season you could honestly compare Gonzalez’s production to Garcon’s because it’s the only season you could consider him the #2 receiver. Not to mention that on top of missing a couple games because he was injured, Utecht was still a factor in the passing game. If you continue down your line of logic, Garcon is statistically outperforming Reggie.
Let me just point something out to you. In the games where Marvin wasn’t playing and Gonzalez from his rookie season : 8 games (more like 7.5 when he got injured and Aromashodu replaced him) 31 receptions, 469 yards, 3 TDs. Average yards per game = 58.6, Yards per reception = 15.1. Pretty much exactly on pace as Pierre this season. Except with less targets and less drops.
Pierre’s stats in that regard are :
Targets Drops Percent Caught Percent First Down
81 4 53.1 35.8
And I’d just like to point out that Reggie has seen at least double, if not triple coverage along with Dallas this season. So your point about them not putting decent coverage on Gonzalez is the reason for him having decent stats is moot.
We can argue stats all you want, but sometimes I like to watch games. Gonzalez is a better receiver than Garcon. It’s really not even close to me. Maybe I’ve been watching different games than you for three years, but Gonzalez looked every bit the first round pick Polian spent on him. And you can really stop with the whole Garcon being more athletic than Gonzalez. It’s really not true at all.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
Oh
And 10 catches and 176 yards in two playoff games are pretty significant if you ask me.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
Man, I've missed you, monstersbox
Please visit more often!!!
Peyton Manning makes it Wayne on them hoes!!!!
Garçon is certainly stronger and more physical
he might beat Gonzo in a sprint too, but I really doubt Garçon has quickness or body control like Gonzo.
and hands/head is no comparison.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
There's no doubt about the strength
But Roy Hall looked like a 24 year old Ray Lewis running a 4.36 40 and look where that got us. And Gonzo’s 40 is still faster than Pierre’s. While most people say they’re not a true test, Gonzo actually timed slower than he did in other recorded sprints prior to the combine. He was estimated in the 4.3s. He’s extremely deceptive with his speed, but you can tell from the clip I posted points it out a bit. You don’t get that wide open unless you’re extremely fast. And no, I’m not a huge fan of the 40, but I do pay attention to the three cone drill. And Gonzo posted the 6th fastest time in history. Which is also highlighted on that cut around 1:10 he made.
What I’m saying is, Pierre is definitely a great receiver that’s still progressing. But I’ve seen literally draw dropping catches from Gonzo more than a couple times. Maybe some people should just consider the fact that we might have 4 awesome receivers on our team? I dunno, right about now I’d put a healthy Gonzo, Reggie, Dallas, Collie, and Garcon attack against a healthy Lance Moore, Colston, Shockey, Henderson and Meachem receiver set. Maybe those dum dum journalists will start thinking about THAT eh BBS?! Stick it to ’em!
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
I'm not so sure its 4.3
As per www.nfldraftscout.com:
Gonzalez had an avg. of 4.44 with his lowest being 4.40.
Garcon had an avg. of 4.42 with his lowest being 4.37.
Garcon is faster than Gonzalez, but it’s pretty close. Gonzalez has a better leap however. Both are definitely much faster than Collie, but I think you need more than speed to suceed in the NFL. Gonzalez can do alot of damage if he gets hit on stride. I think both can turn out to be great receivers, but Manning will have a big say in who is #2.
Actually I like the fact that we can debate about who’s the best receiver out of this bunch, when my first thought was that the Colts would sink with Gonzo out.
Let's keep things in perspective
I’m only comparing the games that each where they both started which happens to be 11. Garcon pretty much ate from the bread crumbs off of Wayne, Marvin, Gonzalez and Clark during his rookie season being used primarily as a kick returner; so Garcon is essentially a rookie.
— “Did you just completely ignore that I said Peyton is only 55 pass attempts away from his 2007 total?”
I ignored it because I felt that argument is less credible than the ‘catch rate’ argument. There could be so many reasons why that figure is what it is (from coaching, having to rely more on passing to comeback in the game than usual, etc.), that I don’t know how one could narrow it down and use it as argument against Garcon over Gonzo.
—“And 10 catches and 176 yards in two playoff games are pretty significant if you ask me.”
I also think it’s decent production, but it didn’t exactly hurt that Gonzalez had Wayne & Harrison drawing away the secondary’s best defenders. By the way, I’m not trying to argue Gonzalez is bad.
would like to add..
In the end, if Gonzalez is playing like himself be it as #2 or the slot we are likely to make a killing in the playoffs.
do you think rec, yards and TDs gives a better picture of a player than recs, yards, TDs and targets?
if so, what factors is catch rate subject to that recs, yards and TDs aren’t and why do they overpower the effect of some WRs being better at catching footballs
if not, why the issue with catch rate being introduced into the argument?
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Dec 8, 2009 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
Good question about "catch rate"
I don’t think catch rate is a very reliable stat. And I would agree with your last question, and say that catch rate shouldn’t be introduced into the argument at all.
The NFL itself doesn’t use ‘catch rate’ in its primary statistics and from searching around I’m not even sure that there’s even an official category named “catch rate”. If it were an important category, why would they miss highlighting it along recs, yards and TDs?
I already mention some of the difficulties I have with the whole ‘catch rate’ concept on my Dec 8, 2009 2:04 PM post. I could add a few more:
1. As far as I know, ‘catch rate’ is a fan invented statistic. www.footballoutsiders.com, defines ‘catch rate’ as:
“Catch Rate represents the percentage of passes to this receiver completed. This is a reference to incomplete passes, not dropped passes: dropped passes are not specified in publicly available play-by-play, and unfortunately we cannot yet correct for this.”
That’s HUGE flaw. Incomplete passes are NOT the same as dropped passes. So “catch rate” doesn’t accurately measure a receivers ability to catch balls at all. It doesn’t even take into account if the ball was overthrown or perhaps even thrown out of bounce. So a receiver may have caught a ball out of bounds by no fault of his own and this lame statistic doesn’t account for that.
2. ‘Catch rate’ doesn’t take into account the distance of the passes thrown. Ike Hilliard and Wes Walker, had the two best ‘catch rates’ in the league last year, way better than Randy Moss, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson or Reggie Wayne. And while Ike and Wes are good players, I sure wouldn’t pick them over those guys. Ike and Wes get a lot more balls around the line of scrimmage than any of those Pro bowlers; so they’re bound to have a much higher catch rate.
3. It doesn’t take into account if the guy is in double or triple coverage. Difficulty of a catch is not taken into account. Gonzo hasn’t consistently drawn double or triple coverage, so games where he has faced mostly man to man coverage or a linebacker help inflate his ‘catch rate’.
I could keep going, but point #1 alone, should be enough to discredit this fictional statistic as a significant measuring stick. That’s why I conclude that recs, yards and TD’s are a far better quality indicator than ‘catch rate’.
I still believe that Garcon needs to keep improving and contribute like the last 3wks in order to make the #2 role his own. So it’s not like I favor skipping Gonzo without seeing some consistency out of Garcon first.
We're going to have to agree to disagree then
Because you’re making me cuckoo for cocoa puffs
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
The NFL itself doesn’t use ‘catch rate’
DId sacks not effect the game until 1982?
And while Ike and Wes are good players, I sure wouldn’t pick them over those guys.
I think you are misunderstanding my position. Catch rate isn’t an end all be all, but it’s a good stat to have in addition to recs, yards, TDs. Welker led the league in receptions too. That doesn’t invalidate that stat.
It doesn’t take into account if the guy is in double or triple coverage. Difficulty of a catch is not taken into account.
Neither does recs, yards, and TDs. Quality of coverage certainly effects them too.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Dec 9, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
“DId sacks not effect the game until 1982?”
Yes and they were credited as tackles. But “catch rate” in its current form has little hope of ever being adopted; and even if it were to be adopted in some distant future, it would be of little value in measuring a receiver’s actual ability to catch the ball.
“Welker led the league in receptions too. That doesn’t invalidate that stat.”Randy Moss produced about the same yardage with 3x times more TDs with 43 less receptions. The combination of recs with yards & tds are more than enough to get a good idea of who’s a better WR. Wes Walker gets too many balls around the line of scrimmage or 6 yds out. Catch rate as it is now, would probably correlate with shorter distance throws.
—“Neither does recs, yards, and TDs. Quality of coverage certainly effects them too.”
Yards and td’s would be negatively skewed by double or triple covered. But all the triple coverage in the world might not be able to stop a guy from catching a pass behind the line of scrimmage.
The bottom line is that along as incomplete passes (not dropped passes) is the category lone factor used to determine catch rate, you aren’t going to get a very useful category. I’m out.
one last thing (actually a whole series of offseason posts)
http://www.stampedeblue.com/2009/6/13/908469/anthony-gonzalez-and-wide-reciever
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
Different circumstances compared to Harrison in '07
If Gonzalez is physically able to play during the playoffs, there is no way the Colts should IR him. In ‘07, the Colts had Clark, Wayne, Gonzalez, and Harrison as receiving threats….after that who produced during that year? Maybe starting Harrison over Gonzalez may not have been the best way to go, but the Colts still should have played Harrison no matter what in my opinion. If Harrison hadn’t play, maybe San Diego would have focused more on Gonzalez thus limiting his effectiveness that game. This year though is a little different, the Colts actually have players who have stepped up well in the absence of Gonzalez, in that of Collie and Garcon. The Colts aren’t obligated to start Gonzalez, but rather have the luxury in limiting his play during certain situations of the game. Why whouldn’t you like that IF Gonzalez is able to play? Or what happens if Collie, Garcon, or Wayne encounters a freak injury during the bye week? Then you have Hank Baskett coming in rather than a physically able Gonzalez. If Gonzelz is able to play and is healthy, then more goods for the Colts. If not, then so be it.
by ColtsFanNChiTown on Dec 8, 2009 1:54 PM EST reply actions
I really hope they get him back
Garçon has been playing great, but he’s slumped after some great weeks before. Collie looks like a good slot guy, but he’s not on the level of 07/08 Gonzo’s efficiency. Plus getting another guy that excels out wide will let them free Reggie Wayne up from some of the double teams he’s been facing by putting him in the slot.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
I hope he is ready to play week 16 or 17
Need to get him in at least two games to get ready and acclimated to the rhythm again. . I dont want this to be a Marvin Harrison situation again. I want Gonzo playing early so he wont have any problems in the playoffs. Start him off easy, use him in the slot and situational downs.
What I think people have been ignoring, is that Garcon may have turned a corner in the REGULAR SEASON. The pressure, expectations, and talent is simply a whole different ballgame in the playoffs. We don’t know if Garcon or Collie will be able to maintain this level of performance in the playoffs. That’s why having Gonzalez back is not really a luxury, I’d say it is essential.
well, not for nothin
but Mount Union is dynastic, its not like he hasnt faced post-season pressure before, even though it is D-3 or whatever, (and i dont know his stats) but he’s been in pressure sits before. And I don’t buy all this media mumbo jumbo that the games are completely different in regular season or playoffs.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
sorta helps that he got swagger
Confidence help a lot calming the nerves. Still, I would like for Gonzo to be back for at least two games, so we don’t have him being out of sync with Peyton.
What exactly was the problem with Marvin in 2007?
The spin-move-fumble was very un-Marvin. There was something weird going on in his head to try that business. It can at least be said that his injury wasn’t the whole story.
But if I remember correctly,
he also did basically nothing for the rest of the game, and was sitting on the bench during our final drive in the 4th quarter. He was not ready for that playoff game, and not just because of the fumble.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: In England, the Speaker of the House is not allowed to speak.
i dont know if he played after that play
but I wasn’t able to watch the game, the Colts lost as my 2nd child was born (but on the flip side, they lost when my first child was born, but won the super bowl when he turned 2, and my 2nd child is turning 2 this january, so i think we may have some kosmic karma happening)
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
I'll counter with...
I’m hoping that Gonzo coming back means Peyton will play a little bit later into the season to develop timing with him. I don’t care if the Colts go 12-4 right now…well as long as they’re the 1 seed, but I DO care about losing timing from sitting the players. Let’s be honest, if anyone thinks that a team going into week 1 after playing a paltry number of snaps during the preseason is capable of winning the Super Bowl you’re drinking silly sauce.
Not to mention that, while I don’t expect 19-0, I am selfishly crossing my fingers for it. That ends the Brady v Manning debate. Period. And I’m tired of it. They’ll just say Brady WAS better until the injury. I’m pretty sure most people here are aware that…well that’s just stupid. But you know they will. 19-0 trumps that. I’ve already come to the conclusion that the media is praying for us to lose every week because they KNOW they won’t be able to debate best QB anymore. And no debate is not good news. Period. Think about that for a minute and I think you may see a little bit (or a crapload in my case) of truth in that.
Not to mention that I’ll agree Garcon and Collie have performed admirably, but Gonzalez is a better receiver right now and is possibly the most physically gifted receiver on the team. Not to mention that he’s seriously clutch. He reminds me of a smaller, but faster, Dallas.
The comparisons of Garcon’s and Collie’s numbers are honestly unfair. They had no choice but to start them, and Garcon was in his second season into the system. When Gonzo was receiving the chunk of the playing time during Marvin’s absence, he was a rookie and we were a…I don’t want to say MORE because our offense has evolved…but I guess a team that focused on the run a little more. Peyton is only 55 attempts away from his total attempts from 2007. And in 2008 he was moved back to the third receiver even though he vastly, and yes it was at least obvious enough for Polian and Co. to part ways with Marv, outplayed Marvin. The most noticeable game was the one against the Ravens. That was the game that they moved Gonzo to the actual flanker position from the slot. He wasn’t statistically overwhelming that game, but they began to play him outside more often. And towards the end of the season, he was resembling the young Reggie Wayne to Marvin Harrison duo circa 2003-2004.
Don’t let the numbers fool you. Or, if you want a number that is seriously mind boggling…Gonzo has caught 72% of his targets through his career. He was at a 78% clip last season. That’s INSANE. The only other receiver close to that is Welker, and Gonzo actually runs past the line of scrimmage. He’s also ridiculous in the open field and deceptively fast. Not to mention is 2 playoff games he has 10 receptions for 176 yards and a touchdown. That’s not too shabby for a #3 receiver.
Not for nothing, but I’ve yet to see many first round busts from Polian. Considering he drafted Gonzo prior to the Marvin injury/decline, and that he pretty much put to rest any future debate about if he REALLY drafts BPA or not, kind of puts the Bill Polian Seal of Approval about his talent. And I may question sitting players, not going after a kick returner etc., but one thing I’ve found to be all but certain is that when a player becomes a Colt, we just found out who was overlooked by Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. I mean Kiper and McShay of course. Well, at least when it comes to first round picks. I’m glad he finally broke the 3rd round curse with Powers.
So there’s that.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
by monstersbox on Dec 8, 2009 2:34 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
Thank you! I’ve been trying to say this for quite some time now but to no avail.
Gonzo will be a great receiver after he heals up, it’s science.
"Yea, verily, we shall overcome thy pathetic attempts at defense, thou jelly-livered knave! Talk not of thy smack to me, for I shall wedge mine booted foot nine furlongs up thy ass, bitch! Canst thou dig it??"
Completely agree
Gonzo has proven to be a very reliable receiver with his outstanding catch percentage rate and is more polished that Garcon or Collie. like you, I want him back for the last two games at least to get back into the game, develop timing and rhythm with Manning and use the bye week (which we will hopefully get. hey nothings a gimme in this league) to perfect that. Gonzo’s return is not only important in getting a reliable weapon back, but it will also make the offense that much more dangerous and flexible.
by metal_militia on Dec 8, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Getting the Rust off
So, how many weeks are necessary for Gonzo to get back into playing rhythm? He’s not coming back for Denver, so that leaves….three games. Is that enough? Is two enough?
I remember Clark getting hurt in 2006 against Philly, and then being out for 5-6(I think) weeks, and then coming back for the final game against the Dolphins, and then playing some seriously good games in the playoffs. That being said, there is a difference being out 5-6 weeks and being out 14-15 weeks.
It’s enough time to evaluate where he’s at. The first round bye is something they’ll take advantage of if there’s anything he needs to work on. The fact that they’re waiting for him to be absolutely 100% before he comes back doesn’t just mean that we’re winning without him, it also alludes to fact that they feel that they NEED him. Otherwise they would’ve probably put him on IR a couple weeks ago.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
I think Gonzo's return would be huge
But I’d rather have a cohesive unit that’s on the same page offensively rather than one which has a WR playing catch-up behind the curve. If Gonzo can play this year before the playoffs, he’s still going to have to prove he can at least match Garçon and Collie’s production before I ink him to the playoff roster. Hopefully he’ll be back practicing next week and ready to take some first team reps for Week 16’s matchup vs. the Jets.
Personally, I think that he has great chemistry with Peyton, and if he can get healthy in time for the playoffs that he’ll be another +weapon in our arsenal. Despite Collie’s fine rookie season, he’s still a rookie, and I’d rather have Gonzo in the slot for the playoffs. But, and it’s a huge but, only if he can prove in the final games of the regular season that he can still ball at an elite level.
On a sad note,
many of you will not be receiving the Colts-Broncos game:
http://the506.com/nflmaps/2009/14-CBS-E.html
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: In England, the Speaker of the House is not allowed to speak.
That sucks
I’m in Bama, had to get the Ticket.
wow
the favrefest still going strong. Glad I have the Sunday Ticket!
As long as we have Peyton we will always have a chance to win.
Glad I live in Indy's local market.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: In England, the Speaker of the House is not allowed to speak.
1. What good would IRing him on week 17 do?
2. Has he been a ‘distraction’ to the team so far? The fans, maybe, but I doubt it’s distracting this team at all.
I know it’s frustrating not having him, but I think you’re getting a little to hot over something that the team has dealt with fine since week 1.
Answer
1) If he is not playing in a live game by Week 17, then playing him in a playoff game serves no purpose. Like with Marvin Harrison in 2007, practice can never simulate getting hit in a live game. The first pass Marvin caught in the 2007 playoff game, he fumbled. Indy never recovered from that fumble, and Marvin was unable to finish the game because of fatigue. So, unless he can play live football by Week 17, it means he is pretty close to useless for the playoffs. Thus, IR.
2) It is ALWAYS a distraction if the status of an important player is up in the air. We saw it repeatedly with Bob Sanders. While the “next man up” concept is nice to chat about, you cannot tell me that not knowing the status of one of your best players doesn’t wear on the mindset of the players, especially players like Garçon and Collie, whose playing time would be directly affected by Gonzo’s potential return.
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1) I don’t think they’d let him in a game unless he’s taken a few hits in practice and shows no effects from the injury. I don’t know about how Marvin got back on the field in 07, but I suspect the team took his word for him being ready. I doubt that Gonzo has earned that yet. Again, the only reason to IR him at that point is to bring someone else in that would help out.
2) 12-0 pretty much tells me that there’s no distraction bothering this team. Garcon and Collie’s performance doesn’t have anyone on the team crying for Gonzo to come back like the Steelers did when Ben sat out, if you know what I mean. Right now he’s a luxury and not an absolute need.
Disagree - read up top
“The first pass Marvin caught in the 2007 playoff game, he fumbled. Indy never recovered from that fumble”
The Colts had a chance to take the lead, possibly win the game with under 4 minutes left when they had the ball at the Charges 10 yard line. The Colts had plenty of chances to recover from that fumble … a little overexaggeration on your part in my opinion.
by ColtsFanNChiTown on Dec 8, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
Baskett
" Hank Baskett, signed after Gonzo went down, has also played well on special teams. "
No, not really. Hank hasn’t even gotten on the field several times this year. He hasn’t been a special teams regular in a while.
A little part of my dies inside everytime I see that picture of Gonzo.
"Yea, verily, we shall overcome thy pathetic attempts at defense, thou jelly-livered knave! Talk not of thy smack to me, for I shall wedge mine booted foot nine furlongs up thy ass, bitch! Canst thou dig it??"
by KingRichard on Dec 8, 2009 4:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
+11
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: In England, the Speaker of the House is not allowed to speak.
you son of a
rec’d
"Yea, verily, we shall overcome thy pathetic attempts at defense, thou jelly-livered knave! Talk not of thy smack to me, for I shall wedge mine booted foot nine furlongs up thy ass, bitch! Canst thou dig it??"
AG's status is critical
I have watched this injury very carefully over the season. I have said this once and I will say it again, we really, really need this guy for the playoffs. Garcon and Collie have done a great job for us, but they both lack the experience AG brings to the offense. He is not overrated, he is a great wide receiver that would have made our offense even that much better.
Yes, we do
Completely agree. Gonzalez is clutch. I trust him and Dallas.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
you seem like a bright person
I’d like to subscribe to your news letter. (First time Ive ever said that sincerely)
People (the media) that mention that Peyton is a choker in the playoffs never seem to get the correct picture. Where do our WRs and RBs go in the playoffs? On a vacation with Romo and Jessica, it seems. Poor option route running, big drops, giving up after some physical play… Peyton, or any QB, can only make the people around them better to a point, they cant make people run, block, and catch, too. Just ask Tom Brady with this years version of Randy Moss.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Gonzo vs. Garcon
We are missing the point in arguing about these two. Its Collie that IMO will be affected more by Gonzo’s return not Garcon. Collie has made some big plays, but in the 3-WR set, Gonzo or Reggie from the slot could threaten the safeties more based purely on speed. 4 vertical threats will open up dumpoffs to the RBs, essentially an extended handoff. Gonzo has also had some pretty good games vs SD in the past, so that is something to file away as the season moves forward.
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