A little discussion about the 2009 Most Valuable Player Award

But do you really think King would cast a ballot for Farve over Peyton after ranking Peyton #1 in his MVP race ever since week 2? Today on the Dan Patrick show they were joking about how Peter King would leave his wife for Peyton Manning if he had longer hair.

I wouldn’t say the Titans would back into the playoffs. Going 9-1 in the final ten is hardly “backing in.” And 9-7 still might get it done, given the number of 6-6 teams right now…

Also, you should probably have mentioned the Saints running game and all the turnovers their D has been getting. Those have helped them a lot. Peyton’s biggest edge over Brees is that everyone kind of knows what they’re going to get against the Colts and still can’t stop it. The Saints have more balance. Though the Colts are improving in that area, of course.

Alot like my arguement I made a last week to be honest…

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2009/12/3/1184326/most-valuable-player-not-flashiest

I like your comments and your view point, as obviously, they already mirror my own…

Brees playing until the end of the season and going for perfection doesn’t “cheapen” the MVP race at all. In all honesty, the resting of the players is a pet peeve of mine. Even prior to starting a trend for playoff losses. Of course that could be debated, but if the schedule consists of 16 games, I’d like to watch my team play for 16 games. I’m not really a fan of having the opportunity to see 8 of our 20 games resemble preseason games.

I’d actually like to take this opportunity to point out something that I’ve had going on in my head for a few months now. If you take into account all the games Peyton has sat, he’s honestly played at least a full year less than his stats reflect. Which is mind boggling if you think about that.

Yet, I could see the AP giving the award to Brees and Manning, just like in 2003 with Manning and McNair. The Colts would have to finish 16-0 though. If the Colts rest their starters and finish 14-2 while Brees and the Saints finish 16-0 then Brees will win.

great article BBS

I also wanted to add that the Vikings and Saints have actually played the 31st and 30th hardest schedules respectively according to sagarin:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/nfl09.htm?loc=interstitialskip

29th and 30th according to FO:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2009/week-13-dvoa-ratings

as Brees has such a good run game this year that they’ll win even w/o him being his best.

Also, I liked Kurt Warner and Pennington last year as well. I didn’t think any of them were close to Peyton, but I didn’t think they were horrible candidates. Again it was about most valuable and Warner last year had the worst run D and still did great. The 8-8 record hurt, but he was a good candidate. Pennington didn’t deserve it at all since most of what Miami did last year was their run game.

I don’t mind even if he doesn’t win it, but he has been the MVP through week 13.

You’ve been trumpeting how good Addai and running game has been over the last 2 months, and now you’re saying the rushing O is last in the league?
Contradict yourself much?

I think it depends on what’s going on, schedule wise. If the Colts get HFA then lose, then it’s kind of like “Well, whatever, it was a meaningless game, they said they weren’t going for 16-0”. If the Saints get HFA and lose, then it’s like “Well, they said they were going for 16-0 and lost.”

So, here are the scenarios:
1) Colts lose 2-3 games, Saints go 16-0: Brees
2) Colts go 16-0, Saints lose 2-3 games: Manning
3) Colts and Saints lose 2-3 games: Whoever has the better record.
4) Colts and Saints go 16-0: Split MVP.

Of course, those are the reasonable options, and we all know that the people that elect MVPs aren’t reasonable (see Brett Favre getting votes last year)

But Peyton is MVP. /no bias here at all lol.

It has a few flaws though the only way to truly compare apples to apples is by common opponent and how each did against them
That would be the Dolphins the Rams and the Pats so far and the Jets and the Bills by the end of the season then we can compare and see so far i would say Drew Brees had a much better game against the Pats and the Dolphins Peyton Manning against the Rams
Drew had a average game against the Jets nothing special and a good game against the Bills

BBS is right the Manning is the MVP of the league, but, as usual, he makes the wrong argument.

Yes, Manning is the MVP, but it’s not because Brees is undeserving or has only had success because of playing lesser opponents. Bress is a great QB. He is very deserving of the award. The reason I believe this is because I believe Manning’s value to the Colts to be greater than Brees’ value to the Saints. Both, however, are equally deserving.

My argument with BBS is how he forms his opinion. His argument against Brees is that Brees’ accomplishments are somehow tainted because they’ve come against lesser opponents. This is a completely flawed argument. Should we throw out all games played by MVP candidates against lesser opponents?

BBS also intentionally ignores facts to support his argument. He conveniently omits Brees’ game against the Pats two weeks ago – maaybe the most dominating performance played by a QB this season – in making his argument against Brees. BBS stated, “Brees… has feasted on teams like the Bucs, Panthers, Bills, Rams, Redskins (who the Saints almost lost to), and Lions.” Apparently, BBS forgot that Brees also lead his team to victory over the Eagles, Jets, Giants, Dolphins and Pats.

Another point in this article that I’d like to refute is BBS’ claim that Peter King has it out for Peyton Manning and the Colts. BBS writes, “Big Whigs like Peter King practically have their vote for Favre cast, regardless of what they are publicly writing.”

My question is, what else other than King’s public writing leads BBS to believe that he would cast a vote for any one other than Peyton Manning. Just yesterday, in Peter King’s mailbag, King wrote, “…the overriding thing about the Colts is as long as they play decent defense (just decent) and Manning is playing, they’ll be serious contenders every year. Manning just does so much that goes unrecognized and unappreciated.” Not to mention that King listed Peyton Manning at the top of his MVP rankings on Monday.

Has BBS discovered secret files, which reveal King will and has always intended to vote for Farve? Does BBS follow King home at night? Tap his phone? Go through his garbage? It’s hypocritical to claim you are someone who looks at the facts to draw his or her opinions, which BBS claims to have done when deciding Manning is the MVP; but then make a claim that all available evidence deems to be incorrect, like saying King will vote for Farve when, two days ago, King himself wrote that he would vote for Manning.

My conclusion, given all the evidence, is that King’s writings are more football savvy and intelligent than the articles, reasonings and conclusions that BBS puts down.

Do better, BBS.

And while Chad Pennington is certainly not a bad quarterback, you are a moron of truly epic proportion if you think Chad Pennington is as good a QB as Peyton Manning.

No one thought he was as good as Peyton Manning, but I’m sure a lot of people realized that the fact of the matter was that he was one of the main reasons that a 1-15 Dolphins team turned into a 11-5 team. Sure you can argue that Tom Brady was out and the Dolphins had an easy schedule and blah, blah, blah. But that isn’t the point, the Colts are expected to basically make the playoffs every year and the Dolphins were expected to be as bad as they were the year before. Chad Pennington came in and was more valuable for the Dolphins that year than anyone else could be. Regardless of if he isn’t as good as Peyton Manning or whatever, he continued to prove how underrated he is and how valuable he can be.

In the case of my SB Nation colleagues, I think they forgot to include the “good” in with the "valueable.

Although valuable is spelled wrong in the above quote, I think that the point is still a bad one. Last season Chad Pennington had the number one completion percentage in the league, had the second highest quarterback rating, and ranked 28th in interceptions while Peyton Manning was tied for 11th with 5 other quarterbacks. I think that is pretty good for a quarterback who is as underrated as Pennington is. So in three categories he was “better” than Peyton Manning was. So don’t discredit him as not being good along with valuable.

Drew Brees DID NOT lead his team to victory over the Bills and Jets, and more importantly, the Eagles game was played against the backup QB…..The Defense won those games for him vs. the Jets and Bills…

Drew Brees failed to throw a TD against the Jets and the Bills, and didnt even crack 200 yards passing either…. and sure the win against the Eagles looks good on paper….but they were playing a team without their star QB. It’s like playing the Colts without Peyton Manning…

Meanwhile, the Saints D allowed an unknown player to drop almost 400 yards of offense on them…..

As for Chad Pennington, the guy is a gamer, whether anyone wants to give the man his props or not. He’s been one of the most efficient QB’s in all of football when he hasnt been hurt. He doesn’t put up the numbers like Peyton, but he gets it done. More importantly, the Dolphins game vs. the Saints was extremely different circumstances than against the Colts as the Phins were without Pennington.

Manning leads in a lot of the statistical categories…but if that’s the criteria for judgement, simply look at the stats at the end of the year. If you do that, Brees was the MVP last year (if you want to limit it to quarterbacks, that is), and he’s the MVP this year, too.

And your criterion that the MVP must play for a playoff-bound team is weak. Since there are no real rules to this purely subjective decision, you’re simply trying to impose one that gives Manning a better chance. (And it’s a strange criterion for a Colts fan to be using…considering that each year he’s won, the Colts have been knocked out of the playoffs.)

Here’s why Brees is the better candidate: the Saints have scored more points (many more), and more importantly have a greater average margin of victory than do the Colts. In other words, while the Colts have been winning relatively low-scoring games behind a resurgent defense, the Saints have been winning high-scoring affairs on the strength of their offense—led by Brees. The Saints depend on Drew to play lights out…and he does. Peyton has more passing yards than Brees; but Drew owns stats that count for a whole lot more: TDs. He has 29 to Manning’s 25. Manning throws a TD every 15.8 attempts; but Brees throws one every 13.5. He also has fewer interceptions (10 vs. 11) and a much better TD/INT ratio (2.9/1 vs. 2.2/1). All that adds up to a significantly higher passer rating: 111.3 to 101.9—almost 10 points higher.

You can make a very good argument for Peyton Manning as MVP, and I’m sure many of the voters will. It will be a close-run thing. But to say that there’s “absolutely no doubt” that Manning is the MVP is silly. If there’s no doubt…why bother to argue the point?

Colts have had 121 offensive drives (10 per game)
Saints and Vikes 137 each
Packers 141

In essence, two MVP candidates and one high-stats generator have all had 7-8 quarters worth of extra possessions to work with. They should have cumulative stats (like TDs, yardage) that are superior by 15-20% or the conversation should just stop.

Favre’s TD/INT ratio is mighty… as of today.

SD has had 122 possessions, so Rivers’s stats are at least apples to apples with Manning’s, and their run support has been roughly equivalent, I’d guess.

What’s sad is that, like declaring Brady the top QB because of three rings, a lot of voters will vote for whichever QB has a TEAM that goes undefeated—individual award for a team effort. There’s SOME logic to it, but it doesn’t quite make sense to me. Now the 4th quarter comeback wins, though team achievements, usually come down to one or two decisive series and can be deconstructed play by play and credit given to individuals. In this regard, Manning has a HUGE leg up.

There has been enough debate of statistics so I won’t even get into it. What I will say is that both Brees and Manning are deserving of the MVP. It’s a shame one of them will not get it. If neither of them were to get it, it would be….I can’t even think about it.

Being from New Orleans means I’m in hopes that Drew gets the nod because he’s a Saint and I feel he has earned it. But, being from New Orleans also means that I have nothing but the highest regard for the Manning family. Looking at Peyton’s entire career, I don’t think anyone would question he is one of the best, if not the best, QB’s in NFL history.

The truth of the matter is neither team would be in the position they’re in right now without their quarterback. I think both Saint and Colt fans can be happy that we’re both undefeated and clearly have the two best teams in the league until someone else proves different. And, most importantly, we share this distinction because of two incredibly gifted athletes who also possess high character and leadership skills.

As it appears the Saints intend on going for an undefeated season, I hope the Colts do also. And, they are both successful in the attempt. Imagine a Super Bowl with two undeated teams going at it. It would be like nothing before. And, the ‘72 Dolphins wouldn’t have anyone to root for.

If this were to happen, I’d settle for Peyton getting the regular season MVP if Drew can get the Super Bowl MVP.

BBS totally bashed the wet tee shirt contest at the local bar.

Some of those girls really deserved to win and worked very hard bro.

You say Drew Brees has “feasted on the Bills” as if it’s a bad thing. The Bills have one of the best pass defenses in the league. Look up the numbers. Just cause they suck doesn’t mean they suck at everything! LOL :-)

I’m reading comments about how the Saints dominated the Patriots…..

First off, the Patriots lost key players in the game against the Colts, and they were still without some of those guys against the Saints….. so the Patriots team we faced…wasn’t 100% the same as the one the Saints faced…

YET!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Saints struggled to beat the lowly 1-11 St. Louis Rams….and when I say struggled…..it’s being nice……allowing the Rams to score 23 pts and they had the lead with less than 4 minutes to go in that game…

However, the Colts absolutely SPANKED the Rams by 36 pts and didnt allow the Rams to score a single TD….

The harsh cold truth here is that the Saints have beaten the good teams they’ve faced, but struggled against teams that they SHOULD have beaten… (Rams, Redskins, Jets).

Keep in mind that the Colts have faced only 1 really bad team….and they absolutely demolished them by a score of 42 to 6. Meanwhile, the Saints have played the Lions, Rams, Redskins, and Buccaneers…and will play the Bucs once more in the next 4 games…

And to the comments about defenses…..Scoring defense is the only stat that matters….because the Saints have only played 2 really good teams that have great offenses and good solid defenses… the rest have had good defenses/mediocre offenses or just overall mediocre..