Addai vs MJD
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 12:38 PM EST
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...overrated RB Jones Drew... (-Piojocuau)
Overrated? What? MJD is awesome. I’d take him over Addai in a heartbeat. (-KingRichard)
I hate the term over(under)rated, so I'll just look at KR's, more concrete, statement.
| Back | Carries | Yards | YPC | Fumb | DYAR | DVOA | Rec | RecYds | Total TDs | RecDYAR | RecDVOA | Total DYAR |
| 06-Addai | 226 | 1,081 | 4.8 | 2 | 276(4th) | 18.4% (5th) | 40 |
325 | 8 |
38 (30th) | -2.1% (35th) | 314 |
| 06-MJD | 166 | 941 | 5.7 | 1 | 217(10th) | 22.0% (4th) |
46 | 436 | 15 |
126 (9th) | 16.7% (15th) | 333 |
| 07-Addai | 261 | 1,072 | 4.1 | 0 | 222 (5th) | 11.1% (17th) |
41 | 364 | 15 | 150 (3rd) |
43.7% (2nd) |
372 |
| 07-MJD | 167 | 768 | 4.6 | 2 | 81 (25th) |
2.1% (23rd) |
40 | 407 | 9 | 142 (5th) |
32.0% (7th) |
223 |
| 08-Addai | 155 | 544 | 3.5 | 1 | 34 (32nd) |
-1.3% (28th) |
25 | 206 | 7 | 40 (29th) | 5.2% (22nd) | 74 |
| 08-MJD | 197 | 824 | 4.2 | 7 | 99 (19th) |
4.3% (18th) |
62 | 565 | 14 | 223 (1st) | 43.7% (4th) | 322 |
| Total Addai |
642 | 2,697 | 4.2 | 3 | 532 | 10.7% | 106 | 895 | 30 | 182 | 16.2% |
760 |
| Total MJD |
530 | 2,533 | 4.8 | 10 | 397 | 9.2% |
148 | 1,408 | 38 | 333 | 31.6% | 878 |
Addai has been a more effiecent runner on significantly more carries, but MJD has been so tremendously valuable as a receiver he overcomes the running deficit and more in total DYAR. Their rookie seasons were pretty even, Addai had a clearly better 2007 and 2008 slanted way over to MJD.
One subjective thing I will point out in the receiving numbers is that usage is a factor in RB receiving numbers. Addai is rarely a primary option in the passing game, while MJD is the primier threat in the Jags passing game. Addai usually gets dumpoffs that don't have much of a chance to gain a lot of effective yards. MJD is deliberately put into position to succeed as a pass catcher.
Can MJD handle an increased workload? Is Addai ever going to be the great back he was in the first 1 1/2 seasons of his career again? The Addai-MJD case is still wide open.
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MJD’s line is a lot better imo. The only thing that kills it for him is the fumbles. Toss in the fact that MJD is a lot more durable, and you can successfully conclude that MJD > Addai.
With that said, I still like Addai, but I’m not changing my opinion that the Colts need a 1A RB so he can be 1B.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
can you say for sure he's more durable just from him not getting hurt while having a smaller workload?
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Problem is, his work load isn’t that much smaller. The only true way of knowing is figuring out the exact number of plays both of them were on the field to date.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
by KingRichard on Feb 17, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't give success rate it's own column, but it's one of the main differences.
Addai is very consistent while MJD is more boom and bust, that’s why FO’s numbers (rightly) don’t like him as much as the raw lines would suggest.
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Don't forget
That MJD has filled the return-man role for Jax the past couple of seasons and done a fine job.
I personally think MJD is a little better. I haven’t watched all of Jax’s games (hopefully I will never have to do anything like that..lol), but just from the few times the Colts play them I have been impressed.
Too bad
Too bad Addai was a joke this year. When are some of you going to wake up and see that he is probably not the answer at RB.
if he plays like he did before this year
healthy with a settled interior line (Dom ran like crap too, it wasn’t just Addai), then he’s a 1A back.
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
Also...
Keep in mind that for 18 straight games (going back to last year) Addai has exactly ONE hundred yard game (105 yrds vs. Texans). That is just terrible and its not the O-lines fault. Does Frank Gore and Matt Forte run under better O-lines than Addai. In addition, guys like Forte and Gore ran better while facing 8 men in the box constantly.
Addai is not the answer. We need to draft an RB in rounds 1-3. IF Addai suddenly gets good again then that is great too. You can never have enough good RB’s.
by FO's line stats
Chicago ranked one spot behind Indy, and SF was 8th in the league (their pass blocking was horrific though)
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
and Forte barely ranked above Addai
3.9 YPC, and was more boom and bust than Addai
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve been saying this for a while, now. I regret owning my 29 jersey at the moment.
That aside, to the MJD v Addai topic: There are a few differences between MJD and Addai. I think that MJD has had a better run blocking line than Addai for the past 2 years (the Colts 2006 line was probably even or slightly better than the Jaguars, but losing Glenn and having so many injuries the past 2 years have just killed the Colts line. And while I realize that the Jags line was killed this year, their interior linemen still outperformed the Colts’.
MJD has also benefitted from never having to carry the load. He’s been the change of pace back behind Fred Taylor. This is the year we’ll find out if he can do it constantly at 5’7. He’s built well, but I think we all have questions about him touching his balls 300+ times a year.
One thing MJD brought to the table over Addai, although that’ll probably stop now that he’s the number 1, is that he was a good return man, on top of being a good RB. That kind of versatility is vital nowadays.
Overall I think I’d rather have MJD at this point, but Addai is young and cheap (also how i like my women) and I guess we have to hope that he improves along with the OL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmGdAPjcgaM&eurl=http://www.only17points.com/&feature=player_embedded
Watch the games Shake...
Forte as LIGHT YEARS ahead of Addai this year. He faced 8 and 9 guys in the box and a low quality offensive line. Yet he ran with power and got first down when his team needed it which were two things Addai never did (see playoff game). Heck even Polian said he ran like crap.
As for “Dom running bad too” its pretty obvious that Dom has lost two steps and is not the answer either. Addai is much younger and should perform better than Dom. Its pretty sad that a 30+ undrafted free agent ran with more power this year than Addai.
You’d be hard pressed to find a starting RB that played worse than Addai this year. Again this is something that was not unique to this year because he was bad for 1/2 of last year too.
Blindly loyal
Listen, Addai has basically only played a handful of very good games. He was good in 2006, great in the playoffs, good for 1/2 of 2007 and has SUCKED for 1/2 of 2007 and ALL of 2008. Again he has had ONE hundred + yard rushing game during the last 18 games.
That. Is. Terrible.
by MasterRWayne on Feb 17, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
100 yard games is a shitty measure when Addai is less than 15 carries per game in those 18 games
(14.67), he’s not the kind of back the rips off long runs and he doesn’t get 20-25 carries a game regularly so he’s not going get 100+ yard games.
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
So...
How is he a “1A” back when he can only carry it for 15 carries? Again I think this Proves my point for another RB back there.
by MasterRWayne on Feb 17, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
1A means there should be a slightly lesser partner
I’m not saying Addai doesn’t need another back to work with him. I’m saying that he doesn’t suck, that in fact, when he’s healthy and not behind a gutted OL he’s a good back. That’s what 1A means.
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
More boom and bust?
Doubtful… Addai was consistent… consistently getting stopped for -1,0,1,2,3 and 4 yard agains. Addai’s longest run this past season was 23 yards! Forte’s longest run was 50 yards and again he played in a terrible offense.
Forte is a hard nose runner. Played in a BAD offense but was still very productive. Addai has Peyton Manning to help him out and he still sucked. Addai, and the rest of the RB"s. were the ball and chain that held the offense back this year. He was BAD this year and in my opinion he lost his job and has to earn it back.
exactly, Addai isn't explosive
averaging 3.5 yards per carry when your long is 23 is evidence of a lot more effective runs than a back with a similar YPC, but a few longer runs.
Forte had to deal with teams stacking the box, Addai had to deal with a gutted line
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
A gutted line?
And what was Forte running behind in Chicago? What was Frank Gore running behind in San Fran? Steven Jackson? Steve Slaton? Kevin Smith in Detroit?
Those are all guys who have lines as good or worse than the Colts but yet they had better seasons than Addai. I just don’t get all the Joseph Addai excuse making you do. The guy is NOT the answer at RB.
Also, you always say Addai is “hurt” yet he was bad in the second half of 2007… had all of the offseason to recover and was still bad in 2008. If the guy can’t stay healthy then again we need to look elsewhere.
by MasterRWayne on Feb 17, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
3.5 YPC is not...
3.5 YPC (Addai) is not the same as 3.9 YPC (Forte). One is clearly better than the other. Also Forte hit the “rookie wall” during his last 4 games and that really hurt his state numbers.
by MasterRWayne on Feb 17, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
but it closes some of the gap
I said that my beloved FO stats ranked Forte higher, but he wasn’t a whole lot higher, because his YPC wasn’t great and he was less consistent.
back at this after class.
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Receiving as well...
Look at Addai’s receiving numbers…
25 receptions 206 yards and 2 TD’s. 55 of those yards and 1 of those TD’s came in the meaningless game against the Titans and was more a product of great blocking than anything Addai did.
Forte on the other hand…
63 receptions, 477 yards and 4 TD’s.
there's a split here
between talent and performance. I think Forte is very talented, I was pissed when Forte didn’t fall to Indy. The numbers show he wasn’t very productive. That doesn’t mean he isn’t good, just like Addai’s bad season, while injured behind a beat up OL doesn’t mean he can’t be the very good back he was his first two years.
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
You're confusing stats...
Forte was sometimes not productive because the Bears would fall behind and have to throw the ball and again he was in a BAD offense.
Addai on the other hand, was in a very good offense that forced teams to respect the pass. That is the ideal situation for a RB and yet, even then, he was one of the worst RB’s in the league last year.
Excuses
So excuses count for Forte but not Addai? You referenced “rookie wall” and now falling behind. Well, pretty sure Peyton had 6 or 7 comebacks in the 4th this year so that sort of says that the Colts had to “come from behind” and generally went to the hurry up/shotgun formation and used Addai as a receiver.
If you’re going to accuse shake of making excuses, don’t turn around and start doing it yourself. It’s a little hypocritical.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
And by the way
The 50 yard long run was against the Colts when Bob took a TERRIBLE angle and at most it should’ve been a 15-20 yard gain. If that’s his standout “run of the year” then I’m not impressed.
But I do like Forte, let me state that before anyone gets an incorrect impression.
And Slaton’s a freak. His long runs came when his line had been pushed back behind the LoS and he squirts out. Slaton is an exceptional back. And he’s the reason why the Texans will probably be our biggest competition for the next few years.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
Rookie wall...
Are common for RB’s. They usually hit them the last 4-6 games of the year (as Forte did). If it was Addai’s rookie year I would offer him the same reasoning. My point stands that Forte had a better year even though he had…
A. A BAD offense
B. Was a rookie
C. Was the entire Bears offense both running and receiving.
Forte last year touched the ball 388 times. Thats a lot! Addai touched it 181 times. I think its perfectly reasonable for me to say that Forte “ran out of gas” during the final 4 games and that is different than making excuses for Addai who has been bad for 18 straight games going back to 2007
by MasterRWayne on Feb 17, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Those are still excuses
Can’t accuse someone of making excuses and use your own. As I said, that’s hypocritical. In fact, if the season had been longer, Forte probably would’ve had terrible numbers. He got injured and his production tanked.
I’m not making an argument for either of them, I’m just pointing out the flaw in ragging on someone and calling their argument an excuse and then turning around and rationalizing the numbers behind the guy you’re trying to use as an example.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
False Analogy...
Me saying the Forte hit a rookie wall (which almost all rookies do) is completely different than making excuses for Addai, who has been bad to mediocre for 18 straight games. Totally different level there.
by MasterRWayne on Feb 17, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
No, it isn't
You’re using stats. If you include intangibles in stats then you’re not being unbiased. You’ve introduced a variable into the control. Therefore, your stats are meaningless. It’s cherry picking. If you want to do straight up stats that’s fine, but you can’t introduce outside intangibles to explain why they influence your stats and completely ignore shake’s take on it. Any person that compiles stats on a regular basis (which I do) knows that.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
If a guy...
Gets 388 touches, as Forte did, he is going to slow down at the end of the year. Everyone knows that. Its not a variable but rather a constant.
by MasterRWayne on Feb 17, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
So explain Michael Turner
Or Larry Johnson, or Eddie George. They slowed down in the subsequent years but didn’t slow down during that year.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
Larry Johnson
Larry Johnson is a great example. He has clearly been “ground down” just as Eddie George was.
Turner is not a rookie and he never carried a full RB load. He was fresh this year and it showed.
by MasterRWayne on Feb 17, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
My point is
They didn’t slow down during the year they played. Following years they did. Result, flawed logic in using that as a core example for your argument.
Secondly, ignoring that Slaton and Johnson had significantly higher YPC. Johnson wasn’t the full time back, but Slaton was after Green got hurt. Result, it’s not a constant, it’s an excuse to use “rookie wall” as an argument.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
Slaton...
Again Slaton was not a year long full time back like Forte was. Rookie RB’s usually can only handle about 11 games. Therefore Slaton didn’t hit the wall while Forte did. How is this so hard for you to understand?
by MasterRWayne on Feb 17, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Trust me
You’re not talking above my head. I have a pretty good grasp of what you’re TRYING to say. However, you’re using Forte as your example, when you SHOULD have used Slaton as your example. In fact, comparing Slaton to Forte and saying Slaton didn’t hit a wall is ridiculous.
I’ll agree, Slaton wasn’t a full time back at the start of the season and sat the Baltimore game. Well he had like 4 carries but he still sat. End result?
Slaton – 268 rush 50 receptions 318 touches – 1659 yards
Forte – 316 rush 63 receptions 379 touches – 1715 yards
I’m sorry, but 316 rushes and 63 receptions is not indicative of a massive load that would cause the trail off. Forte got hurt, so the reason for his decline is the exact same reason shake stated Addai declined.
Larry Johnson had 416 carries and 41 receptions (457 touches) the season after he had 336 carries and 33 receptions. In those two years he had 2199 and 2093 yards.
So actually Forte, since he was the starter even though Slaton played in every single game and recorded double digit carries in every game but the baltimore one this year, actually saw his numbers go up at the end of the year. Face it, you picked the wrong guy for your argument. You should’ve used Slaton.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
Addai's decline
Seems to have coincided with the decline of OL health. Starting around the NE/SD games in 2007 and right through 2008.
It’s crazy to say someone was good and suddenly started sucking, especially at his age—if we look for reasons (injury?) and context (OL injuries, DL quality) it might help. It is disappopnting that a “top” RB cannot generate much when he has Manning in the backfield—Hell, the undrafted Rhodes cleared 1,104 yards as a rookie in 2001 in just ten starts. But you know how well we did that year—6-10. A lot of it was garbage time yardage when the D was keying on Manning trying for a comeback. Would you rather have a 100-yards per game guy and a 6-10 record, or a 65 yards per game guy and a 12-4 record?
Guys don’t go from good to bad overnight—either he wasn’t that great or he is not that bad—without something causing it. Personally, I think Addai needs to split carries and needs a good line, I love his success rate and consistency—much like Edge. The O is set up to have ther RB position be a threat like a boxer’s jab. Ignore it at your peril. But in the end, it’s not lethal, just wears you down, 4 yards here, 5 yards there. Our RBs haven’t been breakaway threats in over a decade. But they have been consistent.
Now they need a little health. If 18 can run the stretch well once more (not really an issue last year), and the OL is solid (almost never last year), I suspect we’ll see better performance from 29. Add in an assistant RB, and we’ll be very happy.
I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.
Edge was more of a hook than a jab
The difference between Edge and Addai was that Edge was the running game. Addai is pretty much a compliment to the passing game. He’s a great blocker and a better receiver than Edge, but he can’t break long runs like Edge could. Edge wasn’t as fast as Addai, but his angles were better. And Edge ran behind a MUCH better line, even if our current line was completely healthy.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
Actually comming out of the U Edg had a reported 4.35 40 time, which was faster then Joe's 4.0 40 time
He had the nasty knee injury, early in his career, that cost him his break away speed.
And Ginn reportedly runs a 4.02
“Joseph Addai has been on a lot of people’s sleeper lists, but he is not anymore. He’s a legitimate Day One prospect after his showing at the combine. He busted out a sub 4.4 timing on his 40, and that should push him up into the second round area.”
"Addai was far and away the best running back that worked out at this year’s combine. With Reggie Bush, Laurence Maroney, LenDale White, and DeAngelo Williams all sitting out the drills it was the 6’0" 214lb Addai who stole the spotlight. With a time of 4.37 in the forty-yard dash and a strong showing in the receiving drills he has narrowed the gap between him and the other top five tailbacks. "
Addai ran a 4.41 and a 4.37. He was estimated to run a 4.49.
Edge ran a 4.38 and a 4.44. He was clocked at 4.49 and 4.51 leading up to the draft.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
by monstersbox on Feb 18, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
The issue is...
We haven’t really run Addai into the ground. His average attempts is right where it should be, but yet he still always gets hurt. We need someone else back there and right now… yes Addai is playing for his job. If he can prove it then he gets it, if not, let a rookie get the start.
What about Kevin Smith?
Forget Forte for a second… Kevin Smith who ran for the 0-16 Detroit Lions had this season…
Attempts: 238
Yards: 976
Avg: 4.1
Long: 50
TD’s 8
The Lions had a joke of a line, but Smith had a better season than Addai because he ran with more power. Addai for 18 straight games has been running with hesitation and that is NOT the fault of the O-Line.
Bottom line is Addai has to compete to win his job back and he should do that with a rookie we get in rounds 1-3.
And who's he going to compete with?
He played almost the entire season with an injury that took Felix Jones out for the entire year and then reinjured his shoulder. So say he was 80% effective (which I believe he was fluctuating between 60 and 90 and never went back to 100) and he kept pace with the only other back that saw field time. And that competition is against someone who is a UFA and over 30. If it was a competition based off last year then I’d have to say Addai wins.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
Rhodes...
Rhodes actually just as well as Addai. Of course the difference is that Rhodes…
A. Is a lot older
B. Cost a lot less
Comparing a guy who had a bad season to an old guy who had a bad season doesn’t strengthen your case.
The thing that riles me up is that if anyone else had 18 straight bad games then you would be pissed off, but for some unknown reason everyone comes up with every excuse imaginable for Addai. Just accept that he has been bad for awhile now and that he may not be the answer at RB. We need a rookie RB to take over or to compliment Addai. Either way its a win win situation.
18 straight bad games?
Addai had a shitty season, you don’t need to overstate your case like that
16 for 74 (4.9 YPC) 1 for 10, 2 TDs BAD GAME
22 for 105 (4.8 YPC) 4 for 48, 2 TDs BAD GAME
16 for 70 (4.4 YPC) 7 for 31, 0 TDs BAD GAME
and just beyond the arbitrary 18 game cutoff
26 for 112 (4.3 YPC) 5 for 114, 1 TD
23 for 100 (4.3 YPC) 2 for 9, 3 TDs
16 for 85 (5.3 YPC) 4 for 22, 0 TDs
19 for 136 (7.2 YPC) 3 for 10, 1 TD
all in a row
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Not true
Shake you are making up stats there. You listed only Addai’s stats at the start of the 2007 season. That was TWO years ago. Here are Addai’s last 26 games (including playoffs)
16 44 2.8 (2008 playoff game)
1 4 4.0
(Hurt)
(Hurt)
10 26 2.6
15 57 3.8
16 70 4.4
22 105 4.8
12 34 2.8
17 32 1.9
(Hurt)
(Hurt)
2 3 1.5
17 71 4.2
16 78 4.9
15 20 1.3
12 44 3.7
13 43 3.3 (2007 Playoff game)
4 27 6.8
6 26 4.3
15 44 2.9
13 32 2.5
21 67 3.2
10 44 4.4
21 72 3.4
22 56 2.5
Wow! that is even worse than I thought. That is 26 games which mostly range from mediocre to BAD. You can’t argue with that.
by MasterRWayne on Feb 17, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
And thats also...
Not one game in those 26 were he averaged over 5.0 YPC. Not one game where he broke a long run and stretched opposing defenses. Face it, defenses do not fear Addai and he puts way too much pressure on Manning and the passing game.
Did you people not even watch the San Diego playoff game?
by MasterRWayne on Feb 17, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
the all in a row just means the last 4
the top 3 were in the stretch that you said were all bad games and are all repeated in the list you put up.
again, I wasn’t clear, you overstepping by saying I was making stuff up just makes you come off as a hostile asshole.
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
link
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AddaJo00_games.htm
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
He didn't have those games in a row...
You started cherry picking stats from all his best games. Look the evidence points to Addai having a few great games, numerous mediocre games and a lot of horrible games. Cherry picking from only his best games (many of which are over Two years old) is indeed attempting to slant the playing field on your part. You also failed to count two playoff games (in which Addai played bad in) as games.
Bottom line is that it is 26 games with only 1 hundred yard performance, too few TD’s and a horrendous YPC statline. That doesn’t even cover how bad he has been in short yardage.
by MasterRWayne on Feb 18, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Does he really have to babystep you?
You say last 26 games, including playoffs, he only had one 100 yard game? Well, either you have a reading disorder or you’re a raging lunatic.
Nov 16, 2008 – 22 attempts, 105 yards, 2 TD (5th game counting back)
Nov 4th, 2007 – 26 attempts, 112 yards, 1 TD (23rd game counting back)
Oct 28th, 2007 – 23 attempts, 100 yards, 3 TD (24th game counting back)
Sept 30th, 2007 – 19 attempts, 136 yards, 1 TD (26th game counting back)
Unless you’re including games he didn’t play in? Which, I’m pretty sure I don’t have to say, is rather stupid.
% of the past 26 games Addai went over 100 yards – 15.4%
% of Matt “Pretty Boy” (concering your man crush) Forte went over 100 – 18.75%
- of 19+ carry games for Addai past 2 seasons – 10
- of 100 yard games when receiving 19+ carries – 5
% per 19+ carry game during Addai’s craptastic, throw him under the bus years where he had 100+ yards – 50%
ypg in those games – 91.9
12 TD
Forte:
12 games
3 100 yard games
% per 19+ = 25%
ypg – 87.8
9 TD
Not to sound like a dick, but is it that hard to understand? Do you want him to magically generate carries for himself? Is it that far beyond the realm of reason for the Colts to say “Well, our line isn’t doing too hot and Joe’s not getting much room. Peyton’s also getting a ton of pressure, if only we had a fantastic RB who could block and help our struggling line out. Wait a second….”
If you want to knock him for the Vikings game, well they’re the best run defense in the league. He tore his hamstring in Baltimore, then came back about a month earlier than expected and played hurt. Maybe it was some CRAZY idea that Dungy had that MAYBE Addai might not be super productive at that point running, but nobody knew the extent of his injury so they couldn’t completely ignore him and he could still block.
Too bad we didn’t luck out and get Reggie Bush or Laurence Maroney in 2006.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
3 of them were in a row
he missed a game hurt and had the bye week between the other 3 and the 4th. In 4 straight games that he played in, weeks 4 through 9 of 07 he had those stat lines.
The gamelogs are right here
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AddaJo00_games.htm
middle of the page, those 4 games are in a row.
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 18, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
I am completely with master wayne, addai is not the answe. MJD has been a lot better. I just hope taht somehow addai can take the sand out of his vag and can actually run
by Bleed Blue and White18 on Feb 17, 2009 3:53 PM EST reply actions
not to mention addai is recovering from a torn hamstring, an injury like that can end a running back’s effective days
by Bleed Blue and White18 on Feb 17, 2009 3:57 PM EST reply actions
So let me get this straight
Addai suffers the same injury that causes Felix Jones and Peyton Hillis to go on IR but he’s a worse back and fragile because he decides to try to come back? I don’t even know what you’re saying. You’re knocking him for not being able to run, then saying he had a torn hamstring, then using that as a “it might end his career” although he came back and played with the injury, but it decreased his production so he sucks at running. You pretty much covered all the bases, I’ll give you that.
You guys are vomitting stereotypical tripe fans generally do when someone doesn’t perform up to expectations. It makes sense to say he should be able to go out in a wheelchair and have 5 yard per carry? Riiiiight. The dude PARTIALLY TEARS his freaking hamstring, comes back after missing ONE game and does decent and then SEPERATES his shoulder and comes back DURING THE GAME. But nah, no props for him. No “Man, that guys suffering a ton of pain and putting it out there for his team.” Instead it’s “REPLACE THE BASTARD! WOOOO!!!!”
If only the NFL worked in a vacuum like some people seem to believe. Probably wouldn’t be any point in playing at all since you could just read the rosters and hand out the trophies before training camp.
The entire line had been hurt since day 1, Addai did what he could as a runner, but it had gotten to the point that the line was so out of sync it could open holes or block for them. So they left him in there as a pass blocker. Well, considering that everyone was out of position and I constantly saw Addai doing some amazing blocking, I’d actually say that yes, Addai was our best back this year even when playing through injury.
Hey, let the guy compete with a Moreno, Wells, anyone drafted in rounds 1-3. I’ll tell you straight up that other than Moreno or McCoy, the team wouldn’t be better off. Colts RBs do way more than just run. You know, maybe Addai will be our Chester Taylor and we may get a Wells or a Moreno (highly doubt it) to be our Peterson, but that’s not how we operate. We use the backs to do just as Bobman said, as jabs. Until Manning leaves, we will never have another back like Edge. We just won’t, get over it. Edge was the 4th overall selection, and the first back taken. If you’d like for us to tank a season and go 3-13 to get another Edge, go ahead and suggest it.
It’s the complete 100% opposite in Jacksonville. Run first offense. If we had kept Edge and split time between him and Addai, and now we’re talking about Addai not being the feature back so possibly staying healthy, you’d be telling them to boot Edge because Addai’s the future. Let’s see how MJD performs as a full time back before you guys start lighting the torches and start throwing rocks at Polian’s house.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
Whats with?
All this freaking Addai excuse making? Other running back, including Smith who ran for the 0-16 Lions, were much more effective and played for offenses far worse than Addai.
Bottom line is Addai lost his job. He will have to earn it back and it is now an open competition.
by MasterRWayne on Feb 17, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
what's with all the excuse making for all the backs you are comparing to Addai
the Colts line lost both starting guards, Saturday played hurt in the 12 games he didn’t miss (he came back 2-4 weeks early from the first injury), Ugoh missed 4 games. They got 2.5 seasons worth of games from the 5 starters the year before. Continuity is huge in offensive line play, the Colts opened the season with 3 guys making their first career starts manning the interior OL.
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
and they cut their signature running play out of the playbook for half the season
show me a team that had that much turnover, had to remove a key part of the playbook (that Addai runs extremely well), and the RBs were still productive.
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
I’m sorry, even if Addai likes the stretch play more than any other run, what Running back can’t execute a simple dive/belly play? He just LOVES to cut back and dance too much to run plays that this OL could effectively block (up the middle quick hitters)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmGdAPjcgaM&eurl=http://www.only17points.com/&feature=player_embedded
I have to agree.
Blocking for Addai must be almost like blocking for a pass. Too much time. I like him and all, but I don’t think he is, or should be, our #1 back.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Feb 18, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
That’s true however, it’s not like they were new to run blocking schemes. Those guys have been lineman for at least 3-4 years. So to say that they were out of sync because they were rookies and all that is hogwash to be honest. The only team worse than the Colts last year in rushing was the Cardinals, and that’s only because they refused to run the ball.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Its not O-Line play...
When Addai is dancing in the backfield and failing to hit the hole. Despite all the injuries are pass blocking was still solid throughout the year and if you watch the tape the run blocking was more than good enough. Addai has lost his speed and he has “happy feet.” He is not the answer at RB.
You would be hard pressed to name me a starting running back that had a worse season than Joseph Addai this despite the fact that Addai has the benefits of Mannings audibles and the fact the teams have to respect our pass. That is a huge luxury that guys like Forte, Gore, Jackson, Kevin Smith and Steve Slayton do not enjoy and yet they all still had much better season than Addai.
Addai had the stretch play...
For the final 9 games of the 2007 season and played like crap then too. Please… STOP making excuses for this guy. Ive heard everything now… Addai can;t run because… “O-line, he doesnt have the stretch play, he’s hurt, he’s tired, he’s not a #1 back, he’s mom is suck… he lost his homework” if you have to come up with all these excuses for a guy… maybe he just isn’t that good.
RB is the #1 need in the draft.
Nickel...
Also if you watch the game type you will notice that teams were running their nickel defense against us on 1st, 2nd and 3rd down. They had ZERO respect for Addai.
Stop stealing my lines. I just told you that on the phone you bastard.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Hey
I’ve got DVR record… I rewatch the games too lol.
by MasterRWayne on Feb 17, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
So mid-season
following a four game stretch of
26 for 112 (4.3 YPC) 5 for 114, 1 TD
23 for 100 (4.3 YPC) 2 for 9, 3 TDs
16 for 85 (5.3 YPC) 4 for 22, 0 TDs
19 for 136 (7.2 YPC) 3 for 10, 1 TD
he just suddenly lost the ability to be a good runningback?
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
Yes
What do you think happened to LT this year? Or Shaun Alexander two years ago? Running backs just sometimes have massive skill loss. I think its happened to Addai which is why we need to draft a RB. If Addai is okay then we will have two really good RB’s. You can never have too many.
by MasterRWayne on Feb 17, 2009 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
Tomlinson was 4 years older with 6 more years of NFL use on his body
and that wasn’t mid season
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
So what?
People can break down at any point in time. Some do it sooner and some do it later.
by MasterRWayne on Feb 17, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
he just suddenly broke between week 9 and 10 in 2007?
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
It’s very possible. All of those injuries could be piling up and before you know it, his career is over. I seriously hope this doesn’t happen because the first half of Addai’s career was impressive, the latter half was downright bad. Whatever the reason, it was bad. Will a new running back fix the problem? Maybe, maybe not. But it’s worth a shot in my opinion. Like I’ve said before, regardless of whether Addai comes back swinging or hitting the mat face first, the Colts need another running back in this years’ draft.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Dom couldn't run behind the line, Simpson couldn't run behind the line
Peyton was taking a personal record amount of hits and hurries. I think the line was a problem.
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
As I write this, we're 63 comments in
and I haven’t seen anything that changes my mind about Addai either way. I feel the same about him now as I did when he was drafted: intriguing player, good skill set, good fit for the offense, will never be a 25-carry back. Given the right circumstances (i.e. solid line, potent offense, decent platoon partner) he can be a very productive and valuable player. Given less than desirable circumstances (i.e. out-of-sync line, struggling offense – relatively anyway, injuries) he is mediocre at best. There are reasons – not “excuses” – that explain why he’s fallen off recently. If some of those reasons can be corrected, he can be a very productive and valuable player again. If not, he’ll continue to struggle.
Three things I think:
1) Addai is not the “answer” if by “answer” we mean a James type 300-350 carry RB.
2) Addai does not suck and can rebound if he and the line are healthy
3) RB is an area ripe for upgrade, but not the team’s biggest concern
by ctnyc on Feb 17, 2009 6:32 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
totally agree
+1
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
actually add the one
click actions, click rec. After a couple the comment changes color to show it’s awesomeness.
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
I'll pile on, as well
damn, lotsa comments. Clearly this piece hit a nerve.
I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.
I honestly can’t think of a concern that is bigger than the running back problem. I’d be interested in seeing what your opinion on the matter is. The Colts have a good foundation at corner and safety. The d-line is pretty good with the addition of Johnson, that is assuming Muir gets to actually play more. Foster and Dawson proved they could play the 3 technique pretty reliably in my opinion.
I guess you could argue that linebacker is a position the Colts need to work on depth and is on par with running back in terms of importance. I can see Brackett playing one, maybe two more years before the Colts let him walk. Keiaho is a weak spot in pass coverage and completely choked down the road (cough the wild card game in SD). Hagler is gone, Wheeler needs more playing time to actually judge what he can do, same goes for Senn.
The Colts don’t need another WR unless Marvin goes. Clearly they are set at TE for years. Don’t need a QB obviously. Another lineman would definitely help, but isn’t as big of a concern as RB or LB. So that leaves the Colts with what? What position am I missing here?
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
NT and OT
Antonio Johnson and Daniel Muir? You are confident going into the season with them as your guys? Neither of them even made their team’s roster at the start of the season.
OT Diem is the most washed up play on the offense, by far. Ugoh could get it together, but if the injury/benching was a benching, I wouldn’t feel good about him as the future at LT yet.
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
I have no reason not to be confident in their abilities. It’s not like Johnson was a cast-off of the Titans’. They wanted to keep him, and when Haynesworth went down there for a little while, they were kicking themselves for letting him go. I saw a lot of great things from both of those guys when they were actually given a chance to play.
I do agree that the Colts need at least one more o-lineman though. I’d be pretty confident going into next season with a line that looked something like this:
Ugoh – Lilja – Saturday – Pollack – Take your pick, one of the dudes we have or draft a OT
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Lilja isn't a guarantee to make it back from that knee issue though
so you have some more uncertainty. Diem can slide back inside so a 1st round OT in the draft can cover for Lilja being in question, and then you have 2 guard/tackles that can swing out in case of injury, 3 guys (4 if Saturday is back) that can play guard or tackle.
my board of guys that could reasonably drop to Indy
Jerry
Knowshon
Laurinaitis
Britton
Shady McCoy
Jason Smith
Harvin
Alphonso Smith
Hakeem Nicks
D.J. Moore
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
Out of those clearly you would have to pick Knowshon, followed by Jerry, and then maybe Laurinaitis.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
by KingRichard on Feb 18, 2009 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
so we have 1-2 flipped
we aren’t so different after all.
I ain't tryin' do you, I'm just tryin' do me
Last album did two, I'm just tryin' do three.
-Young Jeezy "I Luv It
by shake n bake on Feb 18, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
Seconded on NT and OT
NT is first in my book with everything else after. It depends on what happens with Saturday and Hayden as well; if either of them goes, we need depth at their positions. I don’t mind drafting a RB if a sleeper falls to us in round 4-5 (maybe even rd 3 if it’s the right player), but I see these other areas as bigger needs at the moment. In my mind it is crucial that we get a couple of DTs that can stop the run if we’re ever gonna take it to the next level.
Addai has lost it
Listen the guy has had 26 games of mediorce to bad RB play. I think its safe to say we need to look elsewhere and that it is a huge concern for the Colts. RB and DT are the two big concern right now.
Shake, as for Dom and Simpson not being able to run… look one of those guys is 30+ and the other was a total no name. Comparing them to Addai (a 1st round pick who gets paid a lot of $$$) is pretty ridiculous. And sure Addai had a strech of 4 really good games (I would say 6 going back to 2006 playoffs) but so what? Lots of guys have stretches of good games and then fall off due to injury and skill loss. RB’s are a dime a dozen and its time to upgrade this position by investing some picks (yes plural) into it. Relying on Addai and Hart (who busted his ACL) would be a huge mistake.
EDGE
That’s all I’ve got to say about it.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
I think Edge wants to come back to Indy...
A two-time NFL rushing champion during his stellar, seven-year stint with the Colts, James believes he can return to All-Pro form if utilized the way he was in Indy. He favors "stretch" running plays, on which he can use his patience and vision, and believes he can be effective catching balls out of the backfield and setting up play-action passes.
However, James said finding an organization committed to winning, and one which features an offense in which he could excel, would be the biggest considerations in his decision.
"That’d be the easiest offense to play for," James said. "Indy’s always a team that makes sense. It’d be like one of those R&B groups when one member leaves and then comes back after a few years, and it’s like he never left."
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Feb 18, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
I like Edge's analogy of the R&B group
but I can’t think of one R&B group that had a member to leave and come back after going solo without affecting the group’s chemistry, maybe Bobby Brown? Anyway, I would love to see Edge back in Indy.
Monster and Shake I’m not saying taht they should just flat out cut Joseph Addai. I’m just saying he may just not be the answer. This is a make or break year for him. As someone said earlier, he’s a 1B rb, we jsut neeed a 1A to complement him
King I read about that guy that you want us to draft and I like him. He would be a nice thunder back for us
by Bleed Blue and White18 on Feb 18, 2009 1:49 AM EST reply actions
seeing all the jags game because thats all we get down here, IMO the defenses have figured out how to defend MJD. anybody who watches them knows that MJD is used as their primary reciever, being the dump off pass is THEIR OFFENSE or that little 8 yard pass to coke head matt jones. as far as MJD running, he wasnt the least impressive last year as a rb and I was way more scared of him when he was a reciever. so if this argument is of running, then I dont think either was that impressive. I think if the colts used addai the same way as MJD this argument would be a draw because addai can do the same things with the dump off as MJD its just that that isnt a big part of the colts offense
I do think the colts need to draft another rb though
I think
its fair to call Addai a disappointment to a degree… He’s a 1st rnd drft pck (sorry for abbrv im holding a kid). Im making this up as i go, but how many #1 Rbs for other teams are more productive and taken later than addai? Look at it this way, instead of drafting Addai in the first round, the Colts could have taken the following w/ their 1st: Mathias Kiwanuka, Greg Jennings, DeMeco Ryans, Marcus McNeill, or one of a few other players that may be better at their positions than Addai (theres some OLmen and a few LBers in there) or Bernard Pollard, cuz he coulda got the ACL train rollin 2 years earlier and then later in the draft the following RBs were available (assuming they trade up for MJD): MJD, Jerious Norwood, or Leon Washington. Now all 3 of those players may not be classified as #1 RBs, but they are all 3rd down, change of pace, good receiving, good return men threats. Everything Addai is being said to be able to be.
I realize that this is a TON of revisionist history, but my point with Addai has always been (two-fold) he’s not the answer, but ‘the answer’ round pick was used on him. If you’re using a first round pick on a RB, you’re expecting 1st round production. I guess next year we get to have the ‘is Gonzalez worth the first round pick used on him’ argument, too, when he becomes the full time #2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmGdAPjcgaM&eurl=http://www.only17points.com/&feature=player_embedded
Starting RBs/Round Taken
AFC South:
Colts – Addai – 1st
Jags – MJD – 2nd*
Tenn – Chris Johnson – 1st*
Hou – Steve Slaton – 3rd*
AFC East -
Patriots – who the hell knows? FA!
Jets – Thomas Jones – FA – 1st
Dolphins – Ronnie Brown – 1st
Bills – Marshawn Lynch – 1st*
AFC West:
Chargers – Tomlinson – 1st
Broncos – Dunno, Couldn’t tell ya, too many.
Chiefs – Johnson – 1st
Raiders – Depends. Fargas – 3rd, Darren McFadden – 1st*
AFC North:
Steelers: FWP – UDFA
Browns – Jamal Lewis – FA, 1st
Bengals – Cedric Benson, FA, 1st
Balt: Depends, I guess? Wasn’t really a set starter last year, but we’ll go with McGahee – 1st
NFC East:
Giants – Brandon Jacobs – 4th*
Cowboys – Barber – 4th*
Eagles – Westbrook – 3rd*
Redskins – Clinton Portis, FA, 2nd*
NFC South:
Bucs: Earnest Graham – UDFA
Falcons – Michael Turner – FA, 5th*
Saints – Reggie Bush – 1st* (Caveat – i’d mostly want him for return abilities, not as a rb)
Panthers – DeAngelo Williams – 1st, Daily Show – 1st**
NFC North:
Detroit – Kevin Smith – 3rd*
Bears – Matt Forte – 2nd*
Packers – Ryan Grant – UDFA
Vikings – Adrian Peterson – 1st*
NFC West:
Hawks – Julius Jones – FA, 2nd
49ers – Frank Gore – 3rd*
Cards – James – FA, 1st
Rams – Stephen Jackson, 1st*
everyone with a * next to their name is a RB I’d take over Addai. Most of the ones I passed over were age related, ie, I think they are probably better than Addai on this specific day, but tomorrow they’ll be over the hill. I think its a pretty good chunk of the league.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmGdAPjcgaM&eurl=http://www.only17points.com/&feature=player_embedded
So 19 of the Current starts (and Ryan Grant was a toss up) +2 because I like both CAR and OAK RBs is how many I’d take over Addai right this moment. Of those 18:
8 are 1st rounders (including both CAR backs)
3 are 2nd rounders
4 are 3rd rounders
2 are 4th rounders
1 is a 5th rounder
Whats my point? I guess I just don’t think you should be drafting a RB in the first round unless he’s a can’t miss, sure fire great back, because you can find so many above average to good RBs in the later rounds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmGdAPjcgaM&eurl=http://www.only17points.com/&feature=player_embedded
by Nideak on Feb 18, 2009 8:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
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