What About #88?

by FWColts on Feb 2, 2009 1:51 PM EST Comment 21 comments

Now that the season is (Unfortunately) over, we can start looking at the future.

Now, Marvin Harrison is one of the greatest wide receivers in history, one part of the greatest WR-QB combo ever, and a surefire 1st ballot for Canton-and if he gets Cris Cartered, the place should be shut down.

But Harrison is slowing down-His numbers are down, and it maybe his injury, or his age catching up to him-Who knows? Now, it seems to me that a lot of people, including those on this site, are basically concluding that Marvin's done, he won't be playing in Indy next year. I'm not sure, so I came up with a few possible scenarios.

1-Marvin Stays. This is possible, but only if he reworks his contract to clear up cap space. Bill Polian will probably sit Harrison(or his agent) down at some point, and have a talk with him about his deal. If Harrison agrees, and returns to his old form, the Colts have cleared up cap space, and managed to keep a hold of a HoF player. If not, he's a good #2 or even #3 receiver.

2-Marvin Gets Cut/Retires. This seems like the most probable option right now. If Marvin won't rework his deal, and can't/won't be able to return to top form, Polian will probably cut him-Or give him the option of retiring before he has to cut him. This means that Marvin Harrison and Tony Dungy will go into Canton on the same day in 2014; and it will also clear up cap space.

3-Marvin Is Traded. This is the least likeliest scenario, but it could happen. There are several organizations that would like a receiver of Harrison's caliber, the one springing to mind is Philadelphia. Since McNabb is staying, and Philly is not only Harrison's hometown, but also a pretty consistent playoff contender, this could be a trade possibility. Other franchises that might be interested-Minnesota, Seattle and Tampa Bay (I have no idea what these clubs cap situations are, they just seemed like attractive choices). Harrison would probably be worth a second-rounder(At best) or a couple of low round choices(At worst). If he returns to a high level, we'll look pretty stupid; or if he stays as he is, he can retire on his own terms, and the Colts will get a few extra draft picks out of it.

Your thoughts and comments?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors.

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I believe

situation #1 will happen. Polian will likely talk to Harrison and his agent about reconstructing his contract since his productivity has somewhat declined due to the knee injury and/or his age. I don’t the Colts cutting or asking Marv to retire; he still has something left in the tank. I really can’t see the third option happening. I know Jerry Rice thought he would always play for the 49ers, but I truly believe Marv will retire as a Colt, either this year and a few years from now.

by KMR24 on Feb 2, 2009 2:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

This is a topic that I have been avoiding...

First, I really do not know what to think…as a fan, you go with you heart and want him on the team. But whether he would help the Colts with his current contract, thats not going to happen in my opinion. This is a lame answer, but whatever Polian decides on Harrison then Im with him 100%…he knows whats best for the team. We all know Harrison is still productive, but obviously not worth it on the amount we are paying him.

by ColtsFanNChiTown on Feb 2, 2009 2:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'll be surprised if another team is willing to trade a draft pick for Harrison

Even if the Colts are on the hook for his remaining bonus money, what team in the league would take on his enormous base salaries remaining on his current contract: $9M in 2009, $10M in 2010, and $11.4M in 2011?

Maybe for a 6th or 7th round pick … say a team is willing to give that much up and get first dibs at Harrison before he can sign elsewhere as a free agent, making the move now and having already agreed with his agent to the parameters of a new contract. A new contract that pays him much less because he sure as hell isn’t worth anything close to the current figures.

The sooner the Colts cut him, the better imo. He’s been dragging this franchise down like an anchor chained around their necks in the postseason. The past is the past, he’s had a super career and will be in the Ring of Fame and then Canton, but focus on winning championships in the present and future.

by project geo on Feb 2, 2009 4:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Philly

I could see him going to Philly. He has some left in the tank and has a lot of pride. He’s also a bit of a recluse and being able to “stay home” full time would likely be appealing. Can’t see him retiring. So it comes down to what Polian will pay and how many blackmail photos Manning has of Polian. Maybe we can keep him at a reduced rate. But Philly is okay with me…

McN is also a ’cuse alumnus and fine QB. Philly always has some trouble with theiir WRs. A good mentor influence on DeSean Jackson?

I love 88, and can imagine a worse ending for him—if he has to go somewhere else, I’d rather it be a playoff contender in the NFC. No ignominious 35-0 defeats playing for a bottom-feeder that pays well (cough, cough Edge), no riding the pine, no run/pass balance….

Bobman

by Bobman on Feb 2, 2009 4:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

there is nothing left in the tank

There hasn’t been for 2 years (he was having a down year even before the injury). It’s time to move on. I don’t know why any team would want a sulky, washed up, low hustle WR whose best years are long behind him. Give me a hungry rookie over a sulky, apathetic marvin any day.

by jedye on Feb 2, 2009 11:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

untrue

he was hurt during the 4th game of the season. His lines in the 3 full games before, 4 for 83, 6 for 87, 6 for 53. That’s on pace for a 85 reception, 1,200 yard, season.

That’s a fantastic season on only a touch (a yard and half a reception per game) below his career average.

Sulky and apathetic have either always described Marvin or never have. He hasn’t changed in that regard. If he was just “quirky” then, it’s hypocritical to bash him for it now.

I’ve seen nothing to make him think he isn’t hustling out there. I see a receiver out of sync with Peyton who’s physical skills have likely, but not obviously declined.

You can love me or hate me,
I swear it won't make me or break me
-Lil Wayne "Love me or hate me"

by shake n bake on Feb 3, 2009 6:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was about to say, he was playing just fine up until he injured his knee in that Broncos game.

This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.

by KingRichard on Feb 3, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll trail onto this

I still believe Marvin’s our best receiver. I think Peyton believes it too, however, I think Peyton and Marvin were SO in sync with each other, that after the injury to Marvin (not his fault at all, Addai better start stepping it up if he doesn’t want me to start flipping out “YOU RUINED MARVIN’S LAST YEARS!”) But I, along with shake and quite a few others, have gone over this quite a bit. Marvin would get wide open, Peyton would still think they had the “mojo” and he’d underthrow or overthrow him. And to tell you the truth, I saw those throws, I’d actually have to say that more than half the time, it was Peyton being rusty.

My only thing is, he has to take a pay cut so we can resign Hayden and Saturday. If we had no FAs (especially a young DB who’s start to solidify himself as a go to starter for years and one of the best centers in the league), I’d say go ahead and pay him. But we can’t. But if they could cut 4-5 million off his contract and pay him 7-8, I’d be totally fine with that. We have to pay him 6 or 7 anyway.

I’d hate to do this, but another option is reworking his contract and trading him to like Philly or something like people have said. My friend’s a huge Philly fan and he’s been going on about it for awhile. If we could trade him for a few draft picks, and unload his salary at the same time, that’d probably be best case. I’d shed a tear, especially since I think he has at least one, if not two or three good years still left in him, but in the long run, we have to start facing facts. Our team is getting older, and we’ll have to put the pieces in place either next year or the year after for the eventual retirement of Peyton. By that time, Wayne’ll be old, along with the majority of our D. And Clark won’t be young either.

I hope we rework his contract and keep him. I’m sure Peyton will have a HUGE part in this decision. Especially since, you know, Caldwell was a QB coach. If Peyton says he needs him, they’ll try everything they can to keep him.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Feb 3, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hello, Reggie Wayne?

I still believe Marvin’s our best receiver.

Come on, how do you miss what’s clearly right before your eyes?

by project geo on Feb 3, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

for sure

Reggie was overtaken Marv.

You can love me or hate me,
I swear it won't make me or break me
-Lil Wayne "Love me or hate me"

by shake n bake on Feb 3, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Opinions

And I still believe he is. Reggie has been better than him, of course, but Marvin still shows he still has it. If he can stay healthy for an entire year and getting back in sync with Peyton, I’ll tell you straight up the other teams will be idiots if they start putting single coverage on him. He was never the type of receiver where you had to be a physical beast for, so yes, I still think he might be our best receiver. If you want to throw everyone that gets injured under the bus, that’s fine, but that’s what’s happened to him. He’s been injured. He was doing fine until he got hurt last year, he missed the majority of the time and came back for one game (where you saw the fumble) and then Peyton and him missed the whole offseason/preseason. If they put the time in, and they get back on track, I’m sure you’ll be seeing alot more of the “old” Marvin.

You can disagree, I really don’t care. I’m not going to agree with you, so arguing is futile.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Feb 3, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

don't be a weiner

“you can disagree… i’m not going to agree with you, so arguing is futile.”

that is abusrd and falacious reasoning. marvin is clearly no longer the best receiver on this team. you said it. “reggie has been better than him, of course.” you’re right. for years, (plural,) reggie has been better. if there are better receivers on the team than marvin, how can marvin be best? i’ll miss him too, and watching his skills decline is painful, but get with the now man!

if it comes down to keeping both hayden and saturday vs. keeping marvin, give me hayden and saturday eleven times out of ten. even colts haters like mike lombardi think hayden is a stud, and if you couldn’t tell how much better the o-line played with saturday than without then you don’t have eyes. in fact, i would argue that saturday is the third most important player on the team behind peyton and freeney. moreover, interior o-linemen age more gracefully than any other position in the league. because such a huge part of their game revolves around intelligece and technique, they can cover up a decline in physical skills more easily than, say, wide receivers – whose production declines rapidly when their physical skills begin to diminish.

of course, with all of this having been said, if marvin is willing to take a paycut then i would love to have him back…

by saintnixon on Feb 5, 2009 12:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Huh, really?

Clearly been better eh? Funny, better, but not super awesome spectacular better.

EVIDENCE! WOO!

This is the incomplete passes by Peyton Manning this year.

Type Number Pct of Incomp Pct of Overall Attempts
Pass Dropped 25 13.6 4.5
Poor Throw 62 33.7 11.2
Pass Defensed 36 19.6 6.5
Pass Hit at Line 12 6.5 2.2
Other 37 20.1 6.7
Intercepted 12 6.5 2.2

This is the breakdown of receptions for Wayne.

Targets Receptions Drops Percent Caught Percent First Down
130 82 3 63.1 48.5

This is the breakdown of receptions for Gonzalez.

Targets Receptions Drops Percent Caught Percent First Down
79 57 6 72.2 45.6

This is the breakdown of receptions for Harrison.

Targets Receptions Drops Percent Caught Percent First Down
107 60 1 56.1 38.3

So, as you can see by this, if you compare the number of targets to receptions to drops, you can pretty much tell that the majority of “poor throws” were the ones intended for Marvin. Which is actually something the majority of people already know. In fact, I clearly remember at least 3 50+ yard passes that were poorly thrown to Harrison after he was wide open. One of those, if you remember, was the underthrown pass on 4th and 1 at the end of the Chargers game. If it wasn’t for Marvin, we would’ve lost that game.

I’ll take a HoF wide receiver who’s showed up big time in and time out, and who hasn’t convinced me that his physical skills are diminishing. If he spends training camp etc. with Peyton and underperforms, then clearly he’ll never be near the same level he once was. But if you’re saying Marvin is clearly the second, if not third best receiver on the team, then in the same breath you’re saying that Peyton declined. Because his production is co-dependent on the simple fact that if Peyton throws a crap ball, he’s not going to catch it. Which happened on several occasions this year.

So yes, I still disagree with you. Does this rebuttal make you feel better?

And I never said if I had to choose between Marvin or Hayden and Saturday I’d go with Marvin. I’m actually positive that I covered that.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Feb 5, 2009 2:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And yet again, my table got all jacked up

So use your imagination. www.stats.com

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Feb 5, 2009 2:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

or Marvin wasn't getting seperation and the ball was being knocked away

or he was off his route from a bump or being slow so it was a tough catch to make and didn’t get caught or counted as a drop.

not every target that isn’t caught is a drop or a bad pass (and both of those two are subjective measures).

Marvin was the 3rd most productive WR on the team, in my opinion the 2nd best. I know that Marv was a few stray deep balls from a much better season, but he’s not the 13million dollar, best ever not-named Jerry Rice, receiver he use to be.

I'm so fly,
I take this parachute off
I might fall and die
-Young Jeezy "Go Crazy"

by shake n bake on Feb 5, 2009 9:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Harrison isn't finished as a football player

… but imo the Colts are much better off with Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, and Anthony Gonzalez getting the targets instead. And I’d throw in Joseph Addai too, I’d like to see the team involve him in the passing game more, especially in terms of the 2008 season. I’m sure that will be the case next year, if Addai won’t have to pass protect as much because of an injured offensive line. (And for all of Addai’s faults, he is among the best RBs in the league in pass pro.)

by project geo on Feb 5, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

But if everyone else is catching between 70-80 percent of their passes and he’s not dropping any (well 1), then the only logical place the “poor” throws could be going are to him.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Feb 5, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I found this great quote

Let me see if I can find a link. http://www.stampedeblue.com/2009/2/5/750459/but-you-guys-think-that-w#comments

So, Peyton still thinks he’s the best, I’m sorry, but I hold his opinion in pretty high regard. Secondly, as I said before, it’s my opinion. I said it’s pointless to argue because I, obviously, won’t be convincing you, and you, obviously, won’t be convincing me of the contrary. I agree, he’s not the 13 million dollar receiver he used to be and I said that. The only people in this league right now that could possibly even be close to a 13 million dollar receiver are Fitz, Megatron, and Andre Johnson. And I’d say they’re more like 10 million dollar receivers.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Feb 5, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Chargers game

Technically, we wouldn’t have lost the Chargers game had Marvin not caught the 4th and 1. We just wouldn’t have won it in regulation. That said, I agree that it was Marvin’s acrobatics that kept us in it and resulted in Vinny’s being in position to kick the FG.

by LovinBlue on Feb 5, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Glad someone mentioned that

Plus you could add that Harrison was fortunate the official over the middle essentially picked Jammer, else he wouldn’t have been that wide open.

And am I the only one who remembers the Steelers game two weeks before? Ugh, a horrible performance. The team wanted to bench Harrison under the excuse of a “concussion” for crying out loud.

by project geo on Feb 5, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs