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DT''s in the cover-2

I've been critical of the smurf D-line since I noticed 265lbs baby smurf E. Foster was starting at NT, not only way to small, but, a rookie at that.  I was already concerned about big brother smurf 255lbs Dawson starting next to him.

Now I have read numerous reasons why this happens ranging from:  the cover-2 requires smaller tackles that can penetrate, a rash of injuries,  unexpected retirement, people getting kicked off the team; but, this is a "next man up team."  The problem being that the next man up was 265lbs and not ready. 

Well these two guys must have been sack artist, because they sure weren't stopping the run. I'll get to the sacks, but, first lets look at the smallish tackle issue.

I checked out the rosters of the some of the other cover-2 teams in the league, Kansas City Chiefs, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Buffalo Bills, Chicago Bears, and Detroit Lions.  Not one team had a DT listed under 275lbs.  The Bears had one D-tackle at 275lbs, the rest of their D-tackles were close to 300lbs or over.  Two other teams had one tackle listed around 285.  Most of the D-tackles on these teams were all around 300lbs.  None of these guys are close to the size of a 3-4 NT, but,  they are all much heavier then Clots D-tackles

The Colts went with penetration and speed at the starting tackle, so they must have had at least 10 sacks from those two starters,  well no, Dawson 0 sacks, Foster 0 sacks.  Brock had 3.5 and Reid had 2 and those guys weren't even full time tackles.

So both of the starting tackles can't stop the run and haven't gotten to the QB all year,  I can sure see why they were left in there all year.  It's amazing the colts won that many games and made the playoffs.

I'm hoping Coyer will get some real tackles and stop going after cast offs, left overs and smurfs.

 

 

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors.

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Anthony McFarland only had 2.5 sacks in 2006

He’s exactly the kind of big disruptive DT that you would want. DTs don’t rack up high sack totals. They disrupt the pock stopping the QB from stepping up and out of Freeney and Mathis’ kill zone.

Foster shouldn’t be playing the NT spot, but they didn’t have any other choice. Antonio Johnson, the 310lber didn’t record a sack, Muir was on the roster all season and could hardly get onto the field.

There is nothing wrong with Dawson and Foster at the 3 tech, when the Colts are forced to play them at the nose, then yes it’s a problem.

All these people who want bigger defenders have to accept that bigger defenders means that the defenders will be lacking in other ways that the current guys aren’t, or will take resources away from the offense and STs.

Smaller isn’t better, it’s cheaper and good enough.

I'm so fly,
I take this parachute off
I might fall and die
-Young Jeezy "Go Crazy"

by shake n bake on Feb 9, 2009 3:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Good enough - hows the colts playoff record?

Reid, A. Johnson and muir all would have been an upgrade over Foster at NT.

by BetterD on Feb 9, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If this was true don’t you think the coaches would’ve noticed that and made a change?

Or do you know more from knowing their bodyweight than Coaches Teerlinck, Meeks, and Dungy knew from seeing them practice and play every day?

by willyduer on Feb 9, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know man

His name is “BetterD”

I'm so fly,
I take this parachute off
I might fall and die
-Young Jeezy "Go Crazy"

by shake n bake on Feb 9, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Solid resume.

Maybe they should’ve hired him instead of Coyer.

by willyduer on Feb 9, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Pathetic

In this case, forming an opinion of players by looking at their listed weights. All three of those players weigh more than Eric Foster, so they must be better at NT, right? Wrong.

First off, Reid doesn’t even need to be addressed. That’s ridiculous.

I like Danny Muir, and he could become better, but he has yet to proven as effective overall as Foster is.

As for Antonio Johnson, yes he’s the better run-defender of the two. And might not be far behind in pass-rushing too, as displayed towards the end of the season. Thing is though, Johnson saw a good amount of PT on 1st and 2nd downs, especially against the bigger/more run-heavy teams in the league, ex. Pittsburgh and San Diego. So it’s not as though the Colts didn’t recognize and use him in that role already.

by project geo on Feb 11, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Draft

I agree with you entirely, the DT’s we started this year lacked size and experience. The best DT we had, Ed Johnson liked the weed more than football and the next best Puinn Quitcock “retired” after one year in the league. The rest were barely good enough to play the 3 technique and we didn’t have a NT. I would like to see 2 of our first 3 draft picks this year go to larger DT’s to meet what I perceive to be our greatest need.

BLITZ THE DOGS!!!!

by ReddogLB on Feb 9, 2009 4:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Foster was phenomenal

He’s an OUTSTANDING DT, but he is what he is: a UT. We need someone big and ugly to maul the center, and we just don’t have anyone like that.

Yet.

by slash196 on Feb 10, 2009 12:30 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Peria Jerry is the new Chris Johnson to me

apparently a love like that comes along once a draft.

I'm so fly,
I take this parachute off
I might fall and die
-Young Jeezy "Go Crazy"

by shake n bake on Feb 10, 2009 12:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with this post...

I have said for some time now that this “small” mentality is a Dungy thing. Now, there have been circumstances that have led to this situation (Johnson and Pitcock) but there is no reason to have starting D tackles – at any tackle position – that weigh in under 270 pounds. Look, I like Foster et al. as well, but I just think that we need a few wide bodies in the middle. I don’t necessarily buy into the “its cheaper” mentality. A player that is good, no matter what they weigh, will command a high price. Teams are not paying players based on them stepping onto the scales and looking at their weight.

That being said…Shake, do you think Jerry will be available at 27th pick? As I look at the mocks I am amazed that most of them have him falling to the Colts. I am skeptical….

by TRDean on Feb 10, 2009 6:07 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don't think he falls to the Colts

Easily recognized as the 2nd best DT in the draft behind Raji and fits some schemes (UT 3 technique) better. There’s a huge dropoff after him, or perceived dropoff after Raji and Jerry.

And it’s not like the Colts didn’t try to find a replacement after Pitcock and Johnson weren’t around anymore. They tried to trade for McCargo and he had a bulging disc. And they had Muir, Reid, and Brock on the team. But Foster was obviously worth a shot, especially after they started switching away from a strict T2 and went to more of the strong nickel alignment. If you notice, when Foster got hurt, there was a dropoff.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Feb 10, 2009 9:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He could, he most likely won't, but it probably won't be like Chris Johnson last year

where I had given up on Indy getting him before the draft even started.

about size vs money, maybe on a guys second and third contract his size doesn’t matter that much for how he’s paid, but guys that are drafted late or not at all because of their size (Mathis, Foster, Dawson, all Colts LBs, even Sanders fell a ways because of his height and injury history).

Look at the draft history, how many high picks have they spent on the defense? 2 first round picks on defense in 7 years (1 year they traded back and took Sanders, last draft their first rounder was basically Ugoh). And neither of those 1st rounders are especially undersized (Freeney, Jackson).

I'm so fly,
I take this parachute off
I might fall and die
-Young Jeezy "Go Crazy"

by shake n bake on Feb 10, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In fairness

Going into the drafts they thought they had their DT for the next year recently. They drafted Tripplett in the high 2nd round in 2002 and David Pugh in the 5th so they thought they were good going into 2003. They picked up Simon after the 2004 season because the DTs didn’t live up to quite the expectations they would’ve hoped. So going into 2005 they were set. They thought they were set going into 2006 so they didn’t draft one, but Simon retired during training camp so they couldn’t just go out and get who they would want to replace him. That and they were still handcuffed because of his contract and the dead cap hit. They get McFarland from Tampa Bay after trading a second round pick in October of 06, and then he tears a PCL in training camp of 07 which is also after the draft. They used their first pick to get Gonzo, and with the retirement rumors circulating about Glenn, they pick up Ugoh. They also picked up Pitcock because McFarland was 30 and playing out of position, but thought they had a good enough of a rotation to work Pitcock in and develop him. Then they plug in Johnson and start Pitcock and they do well enough so Polian thinks he can address other pending issues. Namely the loss of Utecht and Fletcher, and trying to find Saturday’s replacement. Johnson smokes the dope, Pitcock has a nervous breakdown, and that’s 2008. So they try to get McCargo, but the badluck with the Colts at DT is so bad at this point that it causes McCargo’s disc to bulge before he even joined the team. I’m actually really happy this happened before we got him and gave up a 3rd rounder, at least that’s ONE avoided incident.

Anyway, Polian drafts who he needs, when he needs. This “aversion” to drafting a DT is really unfounded. We just had other pressing needs at other positions at the time, and our DT position was looking pretty good going into the past 7 seasons really. Polian and co. did everything in their power to try to make it work. Some people have this situation at their RB position, some have it at their QB (actually most do), and we had the bad luck strike at our DT position. And the only DTs on the Colts that actually made it to the age where they would get a decent contract were Simon and McFarland. If we had drafted a Warren Sapp or Haynesworth (if their attitudes went with the team), I promise you we would’ve paid for them to stay.

As to why we didn’t draft defense in the high rounds, well, because it didn’t make sense to at the time. Hindsight is 20/20, but we drafted who we needed when we needed them. 2002 was almost entirely defense, only 1 offensive player was drafted, and that was in round 6; 8/9 were defense. In 2003 it was still too early to tell who were busts or not and we had to find the replacement for Pollard, so they took Dallas (which I think we can all agree was a good decision). They took 2 DBs in rounds 2/3, and overall, 5/8 picks were defense. In 2004 we took Bob, Hartsock, then 3 defensive players and a total of 5/9 (one was a kicker) was defense. In 2005 we used our first 3 picks and 6/10 (another kicker was taken) were used on defense. Going into 2006, we were in a financial mess, we were worse off than we are this year, so we had to let James walk. We had no replacement so we took Addai. But then we took Jennings and Keiaho and a total of 4/7 picks were on defense. So going into 2007, Stokely had left and Marvin was getting to the point where, even though he hadn’t, he was likely to start slowing down. So we drafted Gonzo, and I explained the reason we took Ugoh. And then we took 4 defensive players in a row and 6/9 players were on defense. I explained why we took Pollack this year, but then we got Wheeler. This was actually the only year since 2001 where offense had more attention than defense. 2/9 picks were on defense.

Overall, 35/60 picks since 2002 have been on defense. These include:

1st – 2
2nd – 5
3rd – 8
4th – 6
5th – 6
6th – 5
7th – 3

But that’s not the story in its entirety. The Colts traded their 2007 second round pick for McFarland, so essentially that second round pick in 2007 was addressing the DT situation. We lost our 2007 first round pick for Ugoh in 2006 so who knows what would’ve happened with that. And we were willing to give a 3rd round pick for McCargo this year. The Colts gave up a 6th round pick in 06 for a LB. So really, the majority of the Colts draft has been trying to address many situations on the defensive side of the ball. Moreso than offense, however, the players didn’t pan out.

It wasn’t some kind of crazy strategy, it’s really just pointing out that prospects are prospects and badluck is badluck.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Feb 10, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I just find it sad that I’ve said exactly what you’ve said ad nauseam but yet people still don’t get it.

This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.

by KingRichard on Feb 10, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Get over yourself

Monstersbox put the whole story together in a way that at least I personally hadn’t read before, either because it was simply put together differently, in one cohesive post, or perhaps because he didn’t laden it with insults, swear words, and overall condescending negativity.

by LovinBlue on Feb 10, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

together differently, in one cohesive post, or perhaps because he didn’t laden it with insults, swear words, and overall condescending negativity.

You mean like how I’m going to respond to you because you are either blind or just plain stupid for not seeing that I wasn’t replying to you or anyone in particular? I don’t know what your problem is, and honestly I don’t really care. I just find it pretty ironic when I make a general statement with no subliminal message to it, and somehow your panties got waded straight up your asshole. Me get over myself? Shyaah, ok. I’ll get over myself when you actually realize that I’m not making anything up and have on numerous occassins composed articles in detail on subjects like this. It’s not my fault if you’ve never read them or paid attention to them.

Some of the people around here seriously need to expose of that bee hive infested in their vaginas and LIGHTEN UP.

This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.

by KingRichard on Feb 10, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

lets play nice boys and girls

(knows this is going to get ugly while I’m away at class)

I'm so fly,
I take this parachute off
I might fall and die
-Young Jeezy "Go Crazy"

by shake n bake on Feb 10, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

it won't get ugly

he just validated my point perfectly

yawn

by LovinBlue on Feb 10, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever you say sweet cheeks.

This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.

by KingRichard on Feb 10, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jeezzzz..

Man I havn’t laughed this hard in a long time!!! Actually KR I took your post as kind of a joke on your part…I’m sure you were not serious.

by TRDean on Feb 11, 2009 6:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good Point Monstersbox

Also, McFarland tore his patellar tendon which is why he never recovered, not his PCL.

by Sanders_fan89 on Feb 10, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ron Brace

Polian seems to like Ron Brace.

Go Colts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by PatsR18*andDONEwithoutCHEATING on Feb 11, 2009 5:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

: )

I just hoping they grab a couple of guys that have been playing NT in a one gap defense.

by BetterD on Feb 12, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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