Marv vs T.O.

by shake n bake on Mar 12, 2009 7:52 PM EDT

Big Blue Shoe's post on why did Terrell Owens sign faster than Marvin Harrison, started some arguments. The main two were variations of Marvin vs TO, which is better right now? and which has been better for their careers. The first is a prediction about the future so will be much more subjective. I'll focus on the one that is based on events that have already happened and been throughly recorded.

Both receivers entered the league the same year and have only a single games difference in games played, making totals (for once) a perfectly a appropriate way to compare players.

Player	Rec	Targets	Catch%	Yards	TDs	DYAR	DVOA
Marvin	1,102	1,700	64.8%	14,580	128	3,606	13.2%
T.O.	951	1,616	58.8%	14,122	139	3,344	13.5%

Marvin has been considerably more productive in total than Owens, with T.O. edges coming in TDs and a slight edge in per play value (which leaned the other way before the last two seasons). The biggest difference by far has been Marvin's hands vs T.O.'s. An extra 6% in catch% builds a 84 target difference into a 151 catch, 458 yard gap. Owens has played in only one less game than Marvin (and 9 of T.O.'s 19 games missed were by suspention) giving Owens a very similar number of oppertunities to get open and have the ball thrown to him.

Here it is year by year

Year	Player	Rec	Targets	Catch%	Yards	TDs	DYAR	DVOA	YPR	YPT
1996	Harrison	64	118	54%	836	8	151	4.3%	13.1	7.08
	Owens	35	57	61%	520	4	107	12.7%	14.9	9.12
1997	Harrison	73	119	62%	866	6	231	11.8%	11.9	7.28
	Owens	60	103	58%	936	8	245	18.9%	15.6	9.08
1998	Harrison	59	122	48%	776	7	88	-3.4%	13.2	6.36
	Owens	67	104	64%	1,098	14	392	36.7%	16.4	10.6
Year	Player	Rec	Targets	Catch%	Yards	TDs	DYAR	DVOA	YPR	YPT
1999	Harrison	115	193	60%	1,663	12	350	10.0%	14.5	8.62
	Owens	60	98	61%	754	4	82	-2.0%	12.6	7.69
2000	Harrison	102	169	60%	1,413	14	340	12.4%	13.9	8.36
	Owens	97	145	67%	1,451	13	419	24.3%	15.0	10.0
2001	Harrison	109	164	66%	1,524	15	537	28.5%	14.0	9.29
	Owens	93	154	60%	1,412	16	458	20.5%	15.2	9.17
Year	Player	Rec	Targets	Catch%	Yards	TDs	DYAR	DVOA	YPR	YPT
2002	Harrison	143	205	70%	1,722	11	478	16.8%	12.0	8.4
	Owens	100	159	63%	1,300	13	246	7.1%	13.0	8.18
2003	Harrison	94	142	66%	1,272	10	300	13.5%	13.5	8.96
	Owens	80	145	55%	1,102	9	138	-0.7%	13.8	7.60
2004	Harrison	86	139	62%	1,113	15	299	13.9%	12.9	8.01
	Owens	77	127	61%	1,200	14	326	19.6%	15.6	9.44
Year	Player	Rec	Targets	Catch%	Yards	TDs	DYAR	DVOA	YPR	YPT
2005	Harrison	82	132	62%	1,146	12	251	11.2%	14.0	8.68
	Owens	47	92	51%	763	6	133	6.0%	16.2	8.29
2006	Harrison	95	148	64%	1,366	12	510	30.3%	14.4	9.23
	Owens	85	152	56%	1,180	13	274	10.2%	13.9	7.76
2007	Harrison	20	32	63%	247	1	40	2.3%	12.4	7.72
	Owens	81	141	57%	1,355	15	449	28.2%	16.7	9.60
2008	Harrison	60	107	56%	636	5	31	-9.6%	10.6	5.94
	Owens	69	139	50%	1,052	10	75	-5.7%	15.2	7.57

Fun Facts

In Marvin Harrison's record setting 143 catch season, he caught a career high 70% of the passes thrown to him. That record is less like Larry Johnson's carries record (where he just kept getting attempts despite inefficiency) and more like Dickerson's yardage record (where a great player was extremely efficient over a massive workload).
Owens had a higher catch % 4 of the pairs first 5 years in the league. Over the following 8 season Marvin had a higher catch% every year.
Marvin has 3 seasons with more DYAR than Owen's career high.

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Comments

Harrison has had a better and more consistent career than Owens, but Owens statistically will be known behind Harrison and then Moss as one of the best at the WR position in his generation. What was up with Harrisons catch % during Mannings rookie year…I think they were getting all those flaws out right away in course to the best combo ever.

by ColtsFanNChiTown on Mar 12, 2009 10:01 PM EDT reply actions

No question Harrison’s the better player over their respective careers.

But over the past two season – even accounting for Harrison’s injury – Owens still looks like the better receiver, at least on raw stats although of course they aren’t the be all and end all of the NFL.

If I had to pay $6.5m to someone, it’d be Owens.

by eltharion_doa on Mar 13, 2009 6:17 AM EDT reply actions

The career long argument is probably being skewed a bit too far due to Marvin’s injury last year. When you look at their careers, Marvin has been more consistent and the only thing TO really has on him is the big playmaking ability. Even so, their stats overall are pretty similar. What makes Marvin far and away the better WR is that he got kicked off of no teams. TO’s been run out of 3 different cities and even suspended for half a season after helping a team get to the super bowl.

Some off the field stuff shouldn’t be factored in to a player’s on the field legacy, but I don’t think that’s the case with TO. All the crap he’s pulled really affected how his teams performed. There’s just no way around it.

by psvirsky on Mar 13, 2009 6:59 AM EDT reply actions

I think Owens is considered more of a big-play highlight-reel receiver than Marvin, partly because of the national media attention that he gets. The feeling I get is that Marvin is considered a possession receiver who cannot stretch the field quit like Owens can. Owens’ ability to produce with three different teams erases questions that Marvin faces, most notably “Is he a product of the system?” and “Did playing with Peyton just make him look good?”. No questions on my part—Marvin’s awesome. But I can see where that line of questioning might be turning some GM’s off.

by Stadtfeld on Mar 13, 2009 7:24 PM EDT reply actions

quite*

by Stadtfeld on Mar 13, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions

who had better QBs?

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Mar 14, 2009 12:58 PM EDT reply actions

by FOs numbers

TO did from 1996-1998 and in 2001

and Garcia, McNabb and Romo were all far better than 96/97 Harbaugh and rookie Peyton.

So actually the 3 years where TO was getting passes from a still productive All time great QB while Marvin was getting very mediocre QB play probably cancels out a lot of the time where Marvin was getting passes from a All time great QB while TO was stuck with “just” a Pro Bowl caliber QB.

They ball when they can and I'm ballin' by nature
Addicted to the game like Jordan and Peyton
-Lil Wayne "Fireman"

by shake n bake on Mar 14, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions