We are NOT drafting a DT in round 1 people!!!

by Disco Stu on Mar 20, 2009 12:03 PM EDT Comment 53 comments

So, can we please stop with the Peria Jerry, Evander Hood, and Ron Brace nonsense? The same can be said about ANY of the outside LB'ers.

It is all simple research folks. Why do so few look at past history when predicting Indy's first round pick? Fans or anyone working for a sports web site that does a mock draft. The Colts have a system. The Colts have a GM that drafts for that system.

How many years in a row now have we "needed" the meanest and nastiest front 7 defender out there? For a decade now? For two decades? Since 1984?

I do know that since we got our franchise QB and the offense has been solid, we have needed that front 7 guy. In the Polian era, he has drafted only Rob Morris in round 1...and that was pre-cover 2. I would bet my house that Rob does not get drafted by us in round 1 for a Dungy defense.

The issue with drafting a front 7 defender early is all about what the other teams value compared to what we value. The Colts like undersized fast guys. Most of the rest of the league like really big fast guys. The Colts can get the front 7 guys they like much later in the draft.

Why use a highly valued and highly compensated 1st round pick on a guy like Peria Jerry when you can get another DT in round 4 or 5 with simlilar skills? Sure, he may not be as good as Peria Jerry, but the drop off is and has been very manageable. Would I like us draft a Warren Sapp like beast that dominates the interior? Sure, but let's get real. There are VERY FEW truly dominant 1st round money worthy DT's in the NFL and those rare specimens are never on the board when we pick in the late 1st round.

My point is this...expect us to stick with the plan and go offense. But, this can be a good thing too. If we would go off script and get a defender, that guy will be fricking good. IMO, the only way Polian deviates is if a defender falls that is just WAY too good to pass up. Maybe someone like one of the highly rated ILB prospects to eventually take over for Brackett.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors.

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Before 2005 you could have said the same thing about CBs

and the Corey Simon signing, Anthony McFarland and failed John McCargo trades shows that Polian does want a big dominant DT, and is willing to pay for one.

They ball when they can and I'm ballin' by nature
Addicted to the game like Jordan and Peyton
-Lil Wayne "Fireman"

by shake n bake on Mar 20, 2009 12:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the reminders...now I'm even more confident that we won't draft a DT.

Simon….Polian’s biggest mistake in Indy.
Booger…way past his prime and tore his ACL
McCargo…Bills tried to scam us with damaged goods.

I agree with you that those 3 attempts show the effort. It also shows me a guy that has been burned in his search for the right DT and not about to risk a 1st rounder on the position.

by Disco Stu on Mar 20, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are really uninformed man. Simon was a beast until he had that illness and Booger didn’t tear his ACL, it was his petallar tendon.

This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.

by KingRichard on Mar 20, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK…I missed Booger’s injury. Knee injury…season done…whatever.

But Corey Simon? To say he was a BEAST is beyond ridiculous.

by Disco Stu on Mar 20, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he anchored a dominant Indy D in 05

They ball when they can and I'm ballin' by nature
Addicted to the game like Jordan and Peyton
-Lil Wayne "Fireman"

by shake n bake on Mar 20, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

Was there a different Corey Simon on that team?

by Disco Stu on Mar 20, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He was different enough

To be on a team that didn’t allow a single 100 yard rusher. To be on a team that went 13-0 when he played and 1-2 when he didn’t. He was different enough to go from giving up about 83 ypg in those 13 games which inflated to almost 170 ypg in the 3 games he missed. He was different enough to hold Parker to 59 yards on 17 carries and Bettis to 46 on 17 and a 2.4 ypc for the game. A game in which it was the offense, not the defense, that was the reason we lost.

Is that different enough?

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Mar 20, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL!!

1-2 when he didn’t play.

That 28-13 loss at Seattle in week 16 was because of….

A) No Corey Simon and our dominant D was no longer dominant

B) Peyton Manning played 1 series

C’mon dude.

by Disco Stu on Mar 20, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well I would say

13-0 and being one of the top run defenses in the league for 13 seasons had more to do with Corey Simon than Peyton Manning playing hundreds of series.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Mar 20, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I meant 13 games, not seasons

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Mar 20, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Please stop

It almost sounds like you are saying that 13-0 in ’05 had more to do with Corey Simon than Peyton Manning.

by Disco Stu on Mar 20, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How's your Madden season going?

And yes, I think it contributed to going 13-0. It’s not rocket science to figure out that when a T2 is capable of stopping the run and forcing 3 and outs, the offense has several more opportunities to see the field and therefore have success. Which we weren’t able to do this year and if our offense didn’t score, we fell into a drain the clock hold Peyton off the field game that made every series not ending in points a failure. You stop the run, give Peyton more chances to score, you force teams to begin to pass and fall into the strength of the T2. You don’t stop the run, you limit your offensive efficiency and allow teams to exploit the weakness of the T2 and keep the best player in the league off the field.

Pretty sure that when our defense plays better and stops the run for an entire season you give a QB with the ability of Peyton an opportunity to put up the best season for a QB ever.

But you’re right and the people I actually consider knowledgeable and myself are wrong. The “All we need is offense” train of thought worked wonders for us. Let’s just ignore that our defense was arguably one of the best defenses in the league during the 4 game playoff run. And one of the most dominant in the playoffs since probably the 85 bears or 00 Ravens.

Thanks for the lesson in football. I’m still trying to figure out what all the hubub is about with this silly sport. Maybe one day I’ll begin to grasp it with in depth analysis from great minds like yourself.

I’ve actually think you’ve successfully won the “fastest to look like a moron” award. And here I thought Pats18 was going to reign supreme for more than a couple of weeks. At least I found some of his stuff amusing.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Mar 21, 2009 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dominant?

We were 16th in rushing defense that year and 5 from the bottom in yards per attempt. Plus, we blew every out that year and team’s stopped running. We had the 3rd fewest rushing attempts against.

The guy had 26 tackles in his 13 starts.

Let’s not glorify the Simon year.

by Disco Stu on Mar 20, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We only dropped to 16th

Due to the last 3 games of the season when he was out. I’m not glorifying the Simon year, it’s true.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Mar 20, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and look at the big picture of the D

scoring D.

They ball when they can and I'm ballin' by nature
Addicted to the game like Jordan and Peyton
-Lil Wayne "Fireman"

by shake n bake on Mar 20, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

second ranked scoring D

stupid SB Nation auto format

They ball when they can and I'm ballin' by nature
Addicted to the game like Jordan and Peyton
-Lil Wayne "Fireman"

by shake n bake on Mar 20, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, he was.

This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.

by KingRichard on Mar 20, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll cheer like crazy for his ring of honor celebration and his 26 tackles that year.

by Disco Stu on Mar 20, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pat Williams (probably the best comparison to Simon's role that year)

made the Pro Bowl with 44 sacks and 1 sack this year.

When your job is to draw attention and hold ground tackles aren’t a great measure.

They ball when they can and I'm ballin' by nature
Addicted to the game like Jordan and Peyton
-Lil Wayne "Fireman"

by shake n bake on Mar 20, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You just don’t know what you are talking about. That’s all I’m going to say.

This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.

by KingRichard on Mar 20, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks...

for setting me straight Disco Stu!! Boy for a second there I didn’t even think I could think for myself!!

by TRDean on Mar 20, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What are you talking about?

A random guy posts an opinion on a Colts web site and the implication is that I was telling you that you couldn’t think for yourself?

WTF?

by Disco Stu on Mar 20, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well..it's apparent that drafting DTs in the lower rounds hasn't been working.

I refuse to believe that we’re just “cursed” at that position…possibly Polian will change something that hasn’t been working and get a top-round guy to anchor that line.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Mar 20, 2009 12:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

My thoughts exactly

A Warren Sapp type is an integral part of the T2, it would be stupid to not try and get another dominant player like Simon would have been. I think Sapp and our time with Simon and Booger kind of prove what they can do for our defense. A player like Jerry or Hood will make Mathis and Freeney so much better, because it will be another great player on the D-line to account for.

by ColtsPurdueFanFromKY on Mar 20, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To me that’s like saying…“A Michael Jordan type is integral at 2 guard”

Well yeah.

If we can get a Warren Sapp type late in the 1st round, sign me up. The problem is DT is right there with WR in first round bust rates. When you look at the number of round 1 DT’s in the last decade, it’s shocking how many of them have had little to no impact. The Sapp’s, Haynesworth’s, and Seymour’s are so rare.

by Disco Stu on Mar 20, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess you failed to notice Booger and Simon on there too, who I wouldnt compare to MJ

What most on here are trying to say is that we have just had freak occurences with our talented NTs. That doesnt mean you should say we are cursed at this position, and just throw some guys out there and see how they will do. Thats stupid, and plenty of people have already made the point that we were better with a good NT. And Polian does not have “busts” in the first round, so if he picks Jerry or Hood they are probably pretty damn good.

by ColtsPurdueFanFromKY on Mar 20, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Polain"s defensive tackle draft strategy hasn’t been working?

All these years with 12+ wins.

by Disco Stu on Mar 20, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look at the problems with the position.

Let’s not forget that the offense has made up for some less than stellar run blocking…

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Mar 20, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My point exactly….all of these DT problems and we still win 12 every year.

Plug other holes. We have proven that we can win with the status quo at DT.

When we start losing 12 a year….make changes.

by Disco Stu on Mar 20, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the DT holes have been filled most of the time

they just have to keep filling them when crazy shit happens to the previous NT.

05 they had Simon and Reagor, 06 they didn’t have anyone until McFarland got acclimated to the D late in the year/in the playoffs, 07 they had Ed Johnson, 08 they didn’t have anyone.

Care to guess the which years had better defenses, 05 and 07 or 06 and 08?

They ball when they can and I'm ballin' by nature
Addicted to the game like Jordan and Peyton
-Lil Wayne "Fireman"

by shake n bake on Mar 20, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

which of those years had 12 wins?

by Disco Stu on Mar 20, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the DT-less years had exactly 12

the DT years had 13 and 14

They ball when they can and I'm ballin' by nature
Addicted to the game like Jordan and Peyton
-Lil Wayne "Fireman"

by shake n bake on Mar 20, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shake is right

And it’s been gone over several times. The reason we didn’t draft a DT is because we thought we fixed the problem. Going into April we were fine. Simon’s injury occured in August, Booger’s occured in August, Pitcock quit in August, Ed Johnson was arrested in September. Every one of those drafts we thought we had every single one of them for the next season and they did significantly better later in the year so it wasn’t a definite NEED in the draft. However, this year it is a need before the draft. It’s the first time that that’s happened in quite awhile.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Mar 20, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know about everyone else,

but quite frankly, I don’t think my heart can take another season of “Peyton saves the day in the 4th quarter”. Besides, don’t tell me that you weren’t frustrated watching our D give up 3rd and longs…on. a. running. play.

I think if Hood’s available at 27, we take him. Then either Robiskie or Jennings with our 2nd round.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Mar 20, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

12 wins

That would be an excellent idea, wait until everyone is old and about to retire and then start thinking about ways to improve the team and look to the future.

Also, I don’t know about you, but my measure of success with this team since about 2003 has been playoff wins and SB wins, not just 12 win seasons. With Peyton, we could (and do sometimes) trot out guys from off the street and get double digit wins. Most of us are looking for ways to get a little bit more out of this once in a lifetime opportunity (having Peyton). Getting off the field is the most important thing for this team the past 2-3 seasons and if you think it will work out with guys like Dawson and Foster then you need to review some game tape.

by AceOfSpades on Mar 21, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jerry

I would agree with your assessment in general, but have you seen some tape on Peria Jerry?

What I see is dominance. If he’s there (he probably won’t) at 27 it’s gonna be tough to pass. If we do there is something wrong with his injury or character’s history.

Other DTs available after him I agree : the talent level difference is not that great.

by TeteDeFer on Mar 20, 2009 12:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I disagree...

Evander Hood is clearly the number three at DT and head and shoulders above everyone behind him. For our system, it’d be hard to find a better UT option. Jerry is exceptional but won’t be there. BPA… even with Nicks/Britt on the board, imo, Evander Hood.

by bamock on Mar 20, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like I said to shake

I think Gilbert may be the best true UT in a T2 system. His stats, combine, game film, and East West Shrine game performance and evaluation all support it.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Mar 20, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oops

Forgot to say I agree with you. Hood is a first round DT. He may not be there by our pick either depending on what happens. He’s shooting up the boards. I was talking about him months ago when he was a 4th round prospect. And unless something surprising happens, Hood is easily worth a 27th pick. I actually think Gilbert may be too. Those two are severely underrated.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Mar 20, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

1st round

If Dungy were still here I would agree 100% that we will not draft a DT in RD1. It just seems to me that with a new head coach there is a possibility that the trend could change this year. Even though I’m a little hesitant on Path to the Draft last night Ziggy Hood looked pretty good and he could be there when we pick. Just maybe Caldwell will be the difference if Hood is the ‘right guy’ according to the FO when our first pick comes up.

IN POLIAN I TRUST

by colt44 on Mar 20, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I seem to remember some guy named Freeney...

1st Round Draft pick, front 7 player…

And as the whole country seemed to have forgotten about the stock market:
“Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future trends”

Polian will do what’s best based on who’s available. If a true late first round DT value is in on the board he’ll be in the mix. Polian’s only system is to make the best decision possible with the variables, needs, and assets present. To say that there is ZERO chance he takes a DT is foolish. Is it likely, who knows but it’s a definite possibility depending on who’s still on the board. As long as they don’t take a QB, a Center or a safety, and that player looks to fit our system. I’ll be happy.

by Rob-Westside on Mar 20, 2009 2:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Haynesworth

Just a note to rebut the quote that “There are VERY FEW truly dominant 1st round money worthy DT’s in the NFL and those rare specimens are never on the board when we pick in the late 1st round.”

Albert Haynesworth was selected after Freeney in the 02 draft. I know that Freeney is a stud and I wouldn’t trade that pick for almost anything, but to say that there aren’t studs available when the Colts pick is untrue.

by AceOfSpades on Mar 21, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

However

To Disco’s point, after looking through the drafts from 03-08, there aren’t any notable DT’s taken after about the first 10-12 picks of any draft since Haynesworth in 02. One possible exception is Rocky Bernard.

But I think that proves the point that if Hood or Jerry are still available when #27 comes up, the Colts would be fortunate to jump on either of those players. Having a dominant DT in the T2 system makes everything so much easier on the rest of the defense.

by AceOfSpades on Mar 21, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

DT YES & LB's NO

I will say that I don’t believe Polian likes to draft LB’s high and I recently made a post on Pat Kirwins Moch Draft that He is an idiot for thinking the Colts are going to draft an outside linebacker number one. That is the one position Polian seems to always have a plug-n-play waiting year after year. DT is another question. If there is a DT that can stuff the run and bring a consistant pass rush up the middle Polian could scoop him up. If anything else to make his book ends that much more succesful. And to keep interior o-lineman off of his little fast linebackers.

by slider09 on Mar 20, 2009 3:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Trends

Well if you want to throw out trends as the determining factor that “Polian” drafts well, I’m afraid the only thing you can be certain of is that he won’t be drafting a WR in the first round. Polian’s name is in quotes because for some reason people think he goes into a sound booth and makes every single football decision on his own.

Polian drafted 0 WRs during his tenure with the Bills. Polian drafted 0 receivers during his tenure with the Panthers in the 1st round. His first WR he drafted in the first round was Reggie Wayne in 2001 followed by Anthony Gonzalez in 2007. So over the course of 23 seasons, Polian drafted 2 first round WRs and the closest they came to each other was 6 years.

On the other hand, Polian drafted 5 first round RBs with 2 coming within 2 seasons of each other. The most drafted 1st rounders under Polian? DBs and RBs. However, DBs are by far the most drafted position by Polian in the first two rounds of a draft at 12.

Polian has drafted significantly more on the defensive side of the ball than the offense. A trend that he has continued to follow in Indianapolis.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Mar 20, 2009 3:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Polian will Draft Offense

Polian will address an offensive hole in the first round before moving on to defense.
Expect a WR or RB to be drafted in 1st round.

by Memphis Red Dogs on Mar 20, 2009 6:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Great analysis

Completely opinionated and lacking any substance whatsoever, but I like the two sentence explanation. I didn’t realize we had Polian or Caldwell in the house. My apologies.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Mar 21, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs