Mock Draft 2.0
Well, a few of my picks are looking pretty lame right now because the Lions appear to be serious about letting Culpepper compete for the starting QB position, and the Bucs just signed Byron Leftwich. This completely changes things, so I had to revise my mock. (be gentle)
UPDATE: Since a few people were upset I took the easy way out on the Colts pick, I updated it with whom I want the Colts to draft.
I made a lot of changes and I'll specify the previous pick just for the heck of it. Here goes!
1. Detriot Lions: Jason Smith, OT, Baylor (previously Matt Stafford)
So I read that the Lions are interested in giving veteran QB Dante Culpepper a chance to become the starting QB, which basically throws a stick in my spokes in terms of draft strategy. I'm not going to argue with that decision, and honestly, I think it may be a pretty good idea. Culpepper used to be one of the best QBs in the league for a few years back at the turn of the century. It was probably due to the fact he was just lobbing balls up to Randy Moss, but still, he had to be somewhat accurate right? Right?! Anyways, there's no doubt that the Lions are going to find a franchise QB sometime, but it doesn't look as if that time is now. They could be holding out until next year to pick up Bradford, which would be an insanely better pickup than Stafford, but we'll just have to wait and see. So that basically leaves me with taking a stud defensive player, or a franchise OT. And obviously, 10 times out of 10, a franchise OT is going to win.
2. St. Louis Rams: Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia (previously Jason Smith)
The position didn't change, just the player. Pace is gone, they need a franchise OT more than anything. I could see them taking Raji, which would help their pass rush, but they also need to be able to run the ball and protect Marc Bulger so he doesn't die.
3. Kansas City Chiefs: Aaron Curry, OLB, Wake Forest (previously Eugene Monroe)
If you aren't aware, the Chiefs are another team jumping on the 3-4 bandwagon, which means they need to overhaul their defense. They picked up Vrabel from the Pats in a trade, but Vrabel is getting old as balls and is only a temporary solution. They are also in need of a good NT to anchor their d-line, but I think they could find someone later in the draft to fill this position. The bottom line is, Aaron Curry is too good to pass up. He's the best defensive player in the entire draft by a mile so the Chiefs have to take him.
4. Seattle Seahawks: Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech
5. Cleveland Browns: Brian Orakpo, DE/OLB, Texas (previously Aaron Curry)
They pass rush is horrible, Orakpo will help this. Doesn't hurt that he is pretty good.
6. Cincinnati Bengals: Michael Oher, OT, Ole Miss
7. Oakland Raiders: Rey Maualuga, ILB, USC
8. Jacksonville Jaguars: B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College
9. Green Bay Packers: Everette Brown, DE/OLB, Florida State (previously Clay Mathews, to the dismay of monstersbox)
Not much of an explanation needed.
10. San Francisco 49ers: Mathew Stafford, QB, Georgia (previously Eben Britton)
I think their o-line needs more work than anything, hence the previous pick being Eben Britton. But with Stafford dropping this far, this is great value for a QB who a lot of people is top 5 talent, whatever that means. Their QB situation is a big mess as well, and now that they will have solved this issue, they can move on and shore up the o-line. They already have a great running back to take some of the heat off of Stafford, and there's no doubt that with Singletary running the show, their defense will be top-notch in a few years. I think this is could be a better situation for Stafford to be in anyways.
11. Buffalo Bills: Aaron Maybin, DE, Penn State (previously Brian Orakpo)
Biggest need? Pass rush. BPA? Maybin. Where's my Staples easy button?
12. Denver Broncos: Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU (previously Brian Cushing)
The Broncos entire defense including their overrated corners need to be overhauled, since they are another one of the 259259825 teams to convert over to a 3-4 defense this season. He would fill the role of a solid 5 technique DE in a 3-4, which would make their d-line a little bit more stout up front. With the addition of a good NT, their d-line will be substantially better.
Also, I'm aware the the different numerical techniques that we often refer to here are kind of confusing so I'll break it down real fast. If a DT lines up directly over the center, or on either outside shoulder of a center, that's considered a 0 technique. If a DT is lined up on the inside of either guard, that's referred to as a 1 technique. But instead of calling them 0 and 1 technique DTs, they are just refered to as a NT.
If a DT is lined up directly over a guard, that's a 2. If they line up on the outside shoulder of either guard, that's a 3. If they line up on the inside shoulder of a OT, that's a 4. If they line up directly over an OT, that's a 5 (which is where Jackson would play). And it just continues down the line. Hopefully that clears up any confusion as far as the different techniques go. But don't confuse that with the different gaps, such as an A gap, or B gap, etc. Gaps are used to determine assignments. Like a NT could be responsible for either A gap (there's two, one on each side of the center) on any given play. For a NT though, it's usually based on which side of the offensive formation is the strongside. Anyways...
13. Washington Redskins: Mark Sanchez, QB, USC (previously Andre Smith)
This is more of a Dan Snyder move than picking Andre Smith. It doesn't appear as if they are too happy with how Jason Campbell has progressed as their starting QB, especially considering they were trying to pick up Jay Cutler. I could easily see them taking Sanchez here with all of the hype he is getting as of late. It wouldn't necessarily be a bad move, but I only say that because I don't like Sanchez.
14. New Orleans Saints: Malcolm Jenkins, CB/S, Ohio State (previously Vontae Davis)
Their secondary is a mess, and depending on where they want to play Jenkins, he'd be an upgrade regardless.
15. Houston Texans: Darius Butler, CB, UConn (previously Darius Butler)
This is the Texans biggest need, and Darius Butler would be a perfect fit. No questionable character issues, not attitude problems, just a guy that performs, and he'll need to when he faces Peyton Manning twice a year.
16. San Diego Chargers: Andre Smith, OT, Alabama (previously Malcolm Jenkins)
I could have gone Darius Butler here, but I think someone who is more versatile like Malcolm Jenkins would have benefited them a bit more. There isn't a safety in the draft worth picking up this early, so I went with ol' trusty, an OT. Their line could use some upgrades anyways, and Andre Smith is a great OT prospect.
17. NY Jets: Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
18. Denver Broncos: Clay Mathews, OLB, USC (previously Brian Pettigrew)
I still ended up taking him monstersbox, eat it! But I agree, the 18th pick seems like a more reasonable place to take him. With the addition of Tyson Jackson and Clay Mathews, their defense is starting to look a lot better.
19. Tampa Bay Bucs: Josh Freeman, QB, Kansas State
They just signed Byron Leftwich, which kind of threw me off a bit here, but I still think this is the right choice. Byron isn't that good, but yet for some reason, when he played for Roflsburger last year everyone forgot his horrible play with the Jaguars and started hyping him up like he is so great but just got screwed out of his starting spot. If the Bucs decide to go with him as their starter, they'll quickly find out why he hasn't been starting for the last few years.
20. Detroit Lions: James Laurinaitis, ILB, Ohio State
I love this pick, which is why I stuck with it.
21. Philadelphia Eagles: Beanie Wells, RB, Ohio State
I noticed a lot of Eagles fans were whining about how much they don't want Wells, and I think they're nuts. He is the perfect compliment to Westbrook, it would make no sense to pass up on him.
22. Minnesota Vikings: Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois (previously Everrete Brown)
The more I looked at my last mock, the more I thought how crazy it would be for Brown to drop this far. It's possible, just highly improbable. So I went with the next best thing here, a CB.
23. New England Patriots: Connor Barwin, OLB, Cincinnati
24. Atlanta Falcons: Peria Jerry, DT, Ole Miss
25. Miami Dolphins: Clint Sintim, OLB, Virginia (previously Aaron Maybin)
The Phins need a pass rush like Belichick needs a video camera.
26. Baltimore Ravens: Jeremy Maclin, WR, Missouri
AND NOW, WITH THE 27TH PICK IN THE 2009 NFL DRAFT...
You know it's really hard just settling on one player. I'd like to draft 4 or 5 different guys here. But ultimately the decision was very easy in the end. Polian has no formula for the draft, and anyone who thinks he does is just flat out wrong. No one really ever knows who he is going to draft, because unlike him, we don't know the ins and outs of what's going on in the organization. But if I were to guess, I really don't see much of a chance of Polian taking a DT here. There's just something about taking a UT in the first round over the plethora of amazing o-line talent just waiting here that bothers me. And if someone like Moreno or Laurinaitis fall, how could you not want one of these guys over someone like Ziggy Hood? Eh, oh well, I'm just stalling. So let's get on with the guy I'm going to draft, cool?
...THE INDIANAPOLIS COLTS SELECT ALEX MACK, CENTER, CALIFORNIA!
That's my pick and I'm sssssstickin too it.
28. Philadelphia Eagles: Brian Pettigrew, TE, Oklahoma State (previously Patrick Chung)
I decided Patrick Chung was too much of a reach and that Pettigrew would help the Eagles running game immensely with his blocking skills. Not only that, but it gives McNabb another receiving threat like he has been asking for. They also need an OT to take the place of Runyan, but I think they can find some good talent later on.
29. NY Giants: Duke Robinson, OG, Oklahoma
30. Tennessee Titans: Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina
31. Arizona Cardinals: Percy Harvin, WR, Florida
I don't care what anyone says, this pick is awesome.
32. Pittsburgh Steelers: Alponsho Smith, CB, Wake Forest
Alrighty then, give me your thoughts.
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Wow...
Two easter mock drafts…. I think you have Maualuga rated too high, but well you don’t know what to expect from Al Davis. I totally see the Mark Sanchez-to-Redskins pick happening. Oh, and glad to see you changing your Brandon Pettigrew pick (to the Broncos), didn’t like it at all. Tyson Jackson seems like a perfect 3-4 DE to Denver, great pick. Finally, one last thought: I really liked this mock draft better than your first one, but it seems like you did it to please everyone who criticized your previous one, and not that much because of those Bucs-Lions QB “moves”. You shouldn’t worry that much about what others say.
David Burton to the COLTS!
Eh, I didn’t change anything because so and so said something about it. It’s basically like righting a rough draft for a school paper. You may write it one way and think it’s done. But when you go back through and read it again, there are some glaring flaws or mistakes you made that you need to revise. That’s basically how I went about it. The criticism I took yesterday only played a small role in it.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
much better mock
I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter
thanks d00d
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
ok, with that said lets slowly step into some minor disagreement
Sanchez is much better than Freeman who I think is a poor man’s JaMarcus Russell.
and the Colts pick is a cop out which doesn’t seem to match your style
But in the end, if no one else agrees, I’ll forever be right in my own mind.
I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter
by shake n bake on Apr 12, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough, then my pick is Britton.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
Britton would be in my top 3 available in that situation
I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter
by shake n bake on Apr 12, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
oops missed the Sanchez to the Redskins
which is an unusual pick, and a bad pick for the Redskins to make, but not unjustifiable to have in a mock.
Still don’t like Freeman, though I hope Tampa bites because then they won’t take Jerry.
I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter
by shake n bake on Apr 12, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Just a few observations
1. Loved your Denver pick analysis
2. Im surprised you picked Sanchez in the first, even when you think he’s there just because of Dan Snyder
3. Still hate your pick at 20 (while it makes a lot of sense and really seems like one of your best picks, i just like Laurinaitis to much to see him in a Lions uniform)
4. In the Colts pick, Im surprised to see Cushing still available. Down there is either him or “Ziggy” Hood but this one represents a hard pick for me
But, what really disappointed me was your attitude in this pick. I never expected that “pick what you want so everyones happy” from you man, HUGE disappointment.
5. Still love Arizona taking Harvin
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha OK" - Tom Brady
Still not bad....
But Cushing after Clay Mathews? I don’t think so….I’ll take Hood at 27, and I don’t think Cushing makes it down to 27. Am I the only one who thinks Cushing is one of the top 4 linebackers in this draft? And that Mathews is a project?
Nope, I also think Cushing is one of the best LBs
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha OK" - Tom Brady
by BlueMark1821 on Apr 12, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Cushing’s work ethic has been questioned, not to mention Mathews is quicker and a superior blitzer.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
no question about it
but still cushing is one of the best lbs
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha OK" - Tom Brady
by BlueMark1821 on Apr 12, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Instead of Britton
I’d rather trade out of the first round, add picks, and draft Unger. I think Unger is highly undervalued. The kid has played every position on the line and been good at all of it. Mudd could do wonders with a kid with this much talent.
The Colts pick has been updated, I’d suggest checking it out.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
What happened to your Britton pick orf a few comments ago?
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: The fear of long words is called Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia. Think about that for a second.
*of a few comments ago.
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: The fear of long words is called Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia. Think about that for a second.
It’s not official until I put it on the list. Besides, I forgot Alex Mack was still available. Mack is by far the best lineman remaining in the draft, even better than Britton imo. That’s including all of the other tackles and guards as well. Some people may be put off on selecting him because he played center in college, and that would mean the Colts have drafted 4 centers in the past two years, but I look past that. Also, there’s no way all three of the lineman drafted last year are going to pan out, it’s just not going to happen. Justice wasn’t able to play most of last season because he was constantly hurt, same goes for Lilja. The guy is constantly hurt and had to restructure his contract this offseason just so the Colts wouldn’t cut him. I think from here on out Lilja is just going to be used as depth while Richard and Pollak will be in competition for one of the guard spots which opens up another spot for Mack to possibly fill.
As for Saturday’s eventual replacement in 3 years, Mack’s the guy. There’s no way I’d choose Pollak or Richard over Mack as Saturday’s heir, no way.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
I'd be surprised if nobody knows my reaction to the pick
LOVE IT!!! But I might be just a WEE bit biased. Go Bears!
Mack?
Hm…could be. Its entirely possible that doesnt mean i like it tough
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha OK" - Tom Brady
lol thx
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha OK" - Tom Brady
by BlueMark1821 on Apr 12, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
btw
Are you a Colts or Bears fan :S???
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha OK" - Tom Brady
by BlueMark1821 on Apr 12, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
oh just forget about that last question...
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha OK" - Tom Brady
by BlueMark1821 on Apr 12, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
4 centers, 2 drafts...
WOW! Or whatever, 4 interior linemen in 2 drafts? Sounds crazy for a team that has just re-signed a starter for 3 years (Jeff Saturday), signed another one the year before for 5 years (Lilja), and also re-signed Dan Federkeil. Doesn’t make sense for me… I know, the BPA thing, but we didn’t re-sign 3 wide receivers and then took Wayne or Gonzo. Besides, there are other “BPAs”. Non sense for me…but I’m not calling it retarded ;)
David Burton to the COLTS!
Well you have to remember that even though Saturday signed a 3 year deal, in reality it’s more like a 1 year deal, and if you produce, you could stick around for another year. If Saturday starts declining then someone has some huge shoes to fill, which is where Mack comes in. There’s no doubt in my mind he would be a much better candidate to replace Saturday over Pollak and Richard.
The Lilja signing was somewhat of a mistake. He’s had multiple injuries to his knees, requiring multiple surgeries. He may not even come back healthy next season, which is why he was basically forced into restructuring his contract that he signed only one year before. Lilja is a huge liability going into next season. It would be wise for the Colts to go into next season assuming Pollak and Richard will be the starting guards, and they need someone to back them up. That’s about all Charlie Johnson is good for, depth. There’s always Steve Justice to be more depth, but no one has seen him play really. He was injured all of last season as well.
Granted, the OT position is the worse off in terms of depth, which is what Federkeil is. But who’s to say someone like Mack, or Richard, or Pollak couldn’t fill in if Diem starts sucking again? There’s a lot of things you can do with really versatile, smart, and athletic lineman. No matter who you put in, there’s always some place you can upgrade.
Yeah, there are some other guys worthy of the pick, like Ziggy Hood. But I’m looking at it this way: Do I draft a player who is one of a kind in terms of overall ability, or a guy who could fill in and help my defense, but could find someone near his level in the next round? I’d go with the one of a kind.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
by KingRichard on Apr 12, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Centers
Not that I can’t see Mack or Unger selected by the Colts but I believe it would take Polian completely believing at this point that none of his three Center draft picks last year are or will be capable of filling Saturday’s shoes; after only one year of development and limited time for 2/3 of those players. That said, if he selects a Center, we’ll know the assessment he has made. I’m not so sure he’s reached that conclusion yet. I can formulate my own ideas on the topic but they won’t impact Polian and the coaching staff’s assessment of the young Center prospects on the team at all.
In my mind, Pollak looks like he’ll develop into a solid player, definitely as a guard (or center) and Richard showed A LOT of promise at both positions as well (most time at Center). Richard’s style of play, hard-nosed, aggressive nature remind me a lot of Saturday… particularly when he was younger. I wouldn’t be surprised if he could develop nicely for the spot. Then again, Steve Justice is still around and though he struggled a bit at guard it was my impression that he spent most of his time in practice as a Center (training to be the potential replacement for Saturday).
So… is a Center pick out of the question? No. Would Mack/Unger be excellent prospects to replace Saturday? Yes. Could I see Mack being potentially even better than the three from last year? Yes. Does Polian think that none of the three draft picks from last year are suitable replacements for Saturday? I don’t know. We’ll find out.
ok...
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
by KingRichard on Apr 13, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Nicks is useless and wouldn’t even crack the starting lineup. Mack on the other hand, could start tomorrow and help out an area of the team that was pretty bad last season. The receivers are fine.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
by KingRichard on Apr 12, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Nicks is useless?
Gonzalez cracked the starting line-up as a 1st Round WR draft pick in the slot his rookie year. There’s nothing that leads me to believe that Nicks couldn’t do the same (spending time inside and outside). As for him being useless, again, you put yourself out there KingRichard. I think he’s the most polished WR prospect that will come out of the draft, potentially in the 1st Round. Character concerns? Maybe. Who knows on that? The weight thing can be over and under played. Still, Nicks and Robiskie are my favorite prospects for the Colts at WR in the draft at this point.
That said, I am not a proponent of drafting a WR in the 1st Round. Never have been. But just because I think no WR will be the MVPA when we pick at 27, doesn’t mean I think the WRs that will be available at 27 are “useless” or won’t contribute as rookies.
Again, the argument I’ve been using since the beginning of time is, what about the other 3 receivers already on the roster? You are just forgetting about them like they were never drafted themselves. Spending a first round pick on a receiver to fill the 3rd spot on the roster is just pointless. This is why I don’t think Polian is going to blow a first round pick on one.
Like I’ve said before, the Gonzo and Wayne picks really aren’t that surprising because we actually needed them. There was really no one else on the roster other than Harrison when Polian picked up Wayne. Harrison was getting old and was going to start declining at some point, thus Gonzalez was picked. Am I the only one who sees this for what it is and that Polian drafted those guys because we needed them?
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
Flawed reasoning
I’m not saying who would be better with Nicks or Mack. But I mean, come on man, you go on defending your pick at center saying that yes, we have depth and we drafted 3 centers last year, but we don’t know if any of them will work out so we need to get one that we’re sure of. How is that even remotely close to a better argument than the one people have been making for Nicks? And you know how I feel about receivers in the first or second rounds, but don’t get so wrapped up in defending yourself that you end up making the same poor argument about your guy that you’re dogging other people for about Nicks. We have more depth and field experience at both center and guard than we do at receiver.
Either you believe your argument, and have to give credence to the Nicks protagonists or you just can’t accept criticism about your pick and will defend it with logic that YOU don’t believe.
Again, this isn’t dogging your pick or saying who I think it should be. Nicks deserves as much first round consideration as Mack does.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
It’s not flawed because the o-line and receiving corps are two completely different situations. Not counting the often injured Lilja, and Charlie Johnson who shouldn’t be on the team anymore, the Colts have 3 guards competing for 2 guard positions. The tackle position is just as bad. They have Ugoh and Diem as the starters and the only depth they have is Federkeil, and that’s a problem. Who’s to say Mack couldn’t come in and compete with Diem at the tackle spot? He’s just too good of a talent to pass up, and to even bring up the idea that drafting a receiver in place of him is nucking futs.
Nicks deserves ZERO first round consideration. Why on earth would the Colts spend a first round pick on a 3rd option receiver? Not just a third option, but a guy who would split time in the slot with Clark, maybe. There’s no logic behind drafting another receiver in the third round who is going to end up catching 30 catches next year. That is of course, if he can out perform Hall and Garcon in training camp and actually earn the playing time.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
by KingRichard on Apr 13, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Just a point of clarification
Do you agree with MRW that the top 50 prospects are basically a wash in terms of talent?
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
No not really. I mean, to me there’s clearly a distinction between top 20 talent, as in, the best football players in the country. But once you start getting near the end of the first round, late first rounders through mid second rounders are almost one in the same as far as talent level. That’s when the dropoff from because “uber talented” fades into “very good.”
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
by KingRichard on Apr 13, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
er...
That’s when the dropoff begins to fade from “uber talented” to “very good.” Was thinking one thing and writing another.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
by KingRichard on Apr 13, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, so there are two levels in the Top 50 players
And pick #27 falls into that “very good” category. I’ll go along with that.
I wouldn’t put any Interior Lineman in the top 20, as I wouldn’t put any WR outside of Crabtree and maybe Macklin in there. Clearly Mack and Robinson, at a minimum are in the next group, as are about 4-5 WRs, a group which includes Nicks. So talent wise, we have Mack, Robinson (I know we aren’t talking about him), and a group of WRs all at roughly the same level.
What I think some people, including myself, are taking issue with is that you are extremely adamant that the Colts need to let the young WRs who haven’t played show what they can do before bypassing them with a 1st round pick, yet saying that the young interior OL shouldn’t get the same opportunity.
It was clear last year that Polian wants to have players on the OL who can play multiple positions, which I (and I think you) agree with. Flexibility is great. The interior of the line has 3 spots, which we have 6 guys currently for those spots. You are right that the Colts should not count on Lilja being 100%, but
Charlie Johnson who shouldn’t be on the team anymore
may be your opinion, but I don’t think it is shared by most here. He definitely should not be playing tackle, but was fine at Guard. Saturday is obviously set, and Pollak was a pick in this same talent pool last year, so I really don’t think Polian is ready to show him the door already. So 2/3 are set, with Johnson (or maybe Lilja) as a decent option at the 3rd.
I’d say there are 2.5 spots at WR, as Clark should be the slot receiver about half the time. Beyond Wayne and Gonzo, I don’t see anyone who is relatively better at WR than Johnson (or healthy Lilja) at OG. That’s definitely less depth than the Cardinals have at WR (3 guys over 77 catches, plus another with 34 catches, and another that was a 3rd round pick last year), yet you have them taking a WR with their first pick. What is the difference?
I’d put Interior Lineman about the same need level as WR, with maybe IL being higher than WR, but not by much. I think the situations are very similar, as do many people here. Would Mack be a bad pick at 27? I don’t think so. Would Nicks, or some other WR be a bad pick at 27? I don’t think so. I don’t think you go wrong in either direction. I also wouldn’t rank these positions as highly as DT or OT, which I think you also agree with.
Reasonable arguments can be made that WR and Interior Lineman are at about the same level need-wise for the Colts, and the situations are very similar in terms of depth and experience.
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
Let's see if it takes
I was trying to say the exact same thing. Just something to keep in mind :
Mike Pollack, C, Arizona State: Pollack clearly established himself as the top center in the draft with his work in Mobile. His athleticism is impressive for a 300-pound lineman, as is the ease which he moves about the field.
C- Alex Mack – California = Mack was the clear cut top center here. I haven’t seen a more complete center come out in a few years. With the prototypical center size (6’4" ~300) Mack showed the ability to be an anchor for a NFL line. He does everything well, and plays with tenacity that you look for out of an interior lineman.
Mike Pollack, C, Arizona State: Pollack is establishing himself as the best center in the draft at the Senior Bowl. He plays with a good degree of athleticism and clears lanes at the line of scrimmage or knocks linebackers off the ball on the second level.
Now check this out :
Alex Mack, C, California: Mack is establishing himself as the best center in the draft at the Senior Bowl. He plays with a good degree of athleticism and clears lanes at the line of scrimmage or knocks linebackers off the ball on the second level.
C- Mike Pollack – Arizona State = Pollack was the clear cut top center here. I haven’t seen a more complete center come out in a few years. With the prototypical center size (6’4" ~300) Pollack showed the ability to be an anchor for a NFL line. He does everything well, and plays with tenacity that you look for out of an interior lineman."
Alex Mack, C, California: Mack clearly established himself as the top center in the draft with his work in Mobile. His athleticism is impressive for a 300-pound lineman, as is the ease which he moves about the field.
So, tell me which one’s which.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
Oh
And yes, those are all of those are actual scouting reports.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
I personally dont like C or WR there
Mack and Nicks are great. But Jerry, Hood, Moreno, and Laurinaitis are better IMO. And they are better picks for the Colts as well. One of them will be there at 27
by ColtsPurdueFanFromKY on Apr 14, 2009 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I can’t argue with that.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
Mack
Mack is really really good plus you forget he can play both guard spots as well. I like the Mack pick. He would be the perfect replacement for Saturday and would help our line out immediately.
Why are you already talking about a replacement for Saturday?
Didn’t we just sign him to like a 3-4 year deal? We need to focus on the here and now. That means shoring up the RG and RT positions (Diem regressed, and I’m not convinced of Pollack.). I can see the Mack pick as depth or as a replacement for Pollak or even as a starter at LG with Charlie Johnson as a backup, but Polian won’t be drafting Mack to replace Saturday. He already picked Saturday’s replacement last year…Jamie Richard.
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: The fear of long words is called Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia. Think about that for a second.
There would be no point in testing out Richard or Pollak at center anymore if the Colts picked up Mack. He blows them both out of water.
Saturday was a signed to a 3 year deal, but contracts aren’t concrete. It’d be nice if Saturday could produce at a high level for all 3 years, but going into next year or the year after assuming he’ll be perfectly healthy and will be able to outplay 3 guys who are a lot younger than him may be a bad idea. I could see a Ugoh-Richard-Saturday-Pollak/Lilja-Diem line for next year. Mack could chill and be depth next year since Richard and Pollak/Lilja have more experience. But if Saturday isn’t up to snuff after next season and Mack had an entire season to learn the system he’d be a great replacement for Saturday.
Charlie Johnson is good sitting on the bench, nothing more.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
by KingRichard on Apr 12, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, here we go...
- I never suggested using Pollak at center. He was drafted to be a guard, he will thrive or bust as a guard.
- I would not be too hasty to say that Mack would blow Richard out of the water when it comes to backup center duties. Much of the Colts game with the center is focused on intangibles like intelligence, and Richard had an extra year to learn Peyton’s calls/quirks. Plus, he has some starting experience from when Saturday was hurt last season.
- Yes, it is true that contracts aren’t concrete (just ask Marvin), but I can’t foresee the Colts releasing him for any reason except for an extreme injury. Saturday is a valued part of the organization and has been Peyton’s partner for what seems like forever. While it may be easy to think just in terms of physical skill and the inevitable decline in physical skill that comes with age, the intangibles and mental preparation are what make Saturday currently the best center in the league. Saturday is not on a year-by-year-evaluate-and-cut basis with the team. He’ll be the center for the next 3 years unless there is injury, in which case Mack and Richard will duel to the death for Peyton’s approval.
- I agree with you on principle concerning Lilja. We signed the wrong fella last year (I miss Jake Scott), Lilja has had 2 or 3 knee surgeries, and Phil B. has previously reported that Lilja’s knee hasn’t responded well to them. We’re also told that he’ll probably start camp on the PUP list. We should not count on him ever being in the starting lineup again. Anything we get out of him would just be bonus. By the way, if he does return, he’ll most likely be at LG (not RG), because that was his position before he was hurt.
- I take issue with your statements concerning Charlie Johnson. He was horrible at LT 2 years ago. I thought that Michael Toudouze did a better job than Johnson when he replaced an injured CJ in that dark, wet, San Diego game. However, he was at least decent (and sometimes pretty good) in the starting spot at RG last year. He really came through after Richard was needed at center. I would even venture to say that he is a better LG than Richard. With his versatility, he would be great as depth, but he is not just “good sitting on the bench, nothing more.”
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: The fear of long words is called Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia. Think about that for a second.
I agree with most of your assessment Cassiper. My issues are as follows.
1 – I’m not convinced that Pollak was drafted as a Guard ONLY. He may end up playing Guard only in his career (since he’s being developed there based on need) but nothing I’ve seen in him indicates that he is either incapable or not even being considered at all as the potential heir to Saturday’s throne in the middle. He was the top-rated center in the draft last year, so I guess we’ll see as time plays out (I like Richard at C more).
2 – The Mack assessment by the Mack supporters is conjecture. Claiming that Mack will do x or y based on his play in college or based on his measurables is an educated guess at best. Still, I agree with you and argue that Richard has proven an ability to play the position, gained priceless experience starting at the position, and has spent a good chunk of the year working with Peyton as Peyton’s CHOSEN number 2 at Center. That speaks volumes for the value he brings to the team. An as yet drafted guy being clearly the favorite is saying a whole lot and may even be against big odds.
3 – The year-to-year thing is not reality. They signed him to keep him for hopefully three more years, the length the team believes he could continue to be starting-caliber talent. If he gets hurt again, as you’ve indicated, then yeah… of course it could change things. Will he have to compete for the starting position during his contract? Yes, as he has had to every year prior. But I agree that the Colts didn’t sign him to an extended contract with the thought that… “well, we’ll resign him to this long contract and tie up salary cap in him just to be sure he is back NEXT year but we question whether he’ll be retained in his new contract’s second year.” If we thought that, we wouldn’t have signed him. See Marvin Harrison.
4 – We may have signed the wrong guy last year… Scott v. Lilja. Unfortunately, the reason is because Lilja and injured and not because Scott is the superior player. I believe that if Lilja could somehow fully recover to 100% health and get back on the field he’d prove to be the better player. We’ll see what happens but until we see the “whites of his eyes” I won’t count on him for anything either.
5 – Charlie Johnson is the whipping boy of Colts fans unfortunately. He has had his struggles at both tackle spots and fans won’t forget them. The fact is, he’s the most dynamic OL on our team. That doesn’t mean he’s the most talented at any one position, but he’s one of the best back-ups in the league I would argue on the OL. Ask GMs and Head Coaches around the league if they’d like a guy who can suitably play 4 positions on their OL and I doubt many would say… “naw, we’d rather carry three players than the one and Johnson sucks.”
My thoughts.
1. How do you know Pollak was drafted to be a guard?
2. Mack is a lot better than Richard, there’s no doubt in my mind. Give Mack a year to learn the system and get some coaching from Howard Mudd and learn from Saturday, and he’ll thrive.
3. You can’t pinpoint when a guy is going to decline physically. It could very well be next year. So then what? Do you just keep him as the starting center because he is Jeff Saturday? Or do you replace him with someone who is performing better and won’t hurt the team?
5. The Colts don’t need to just settle on “decent” lineman. If there is someone that they can draft or pick up that is going to make the offensive line better, then you go for it. Besides, the right side of the line was worse than the left all season long (as evidenced by the San Diego playoff game) which just so happens to be where Johnson played.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
by KingRichard on Apr 13, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
5. Actually, Johnson played on the left side of the line most, if not all, of the season. I made a typo with this line:
However, he was at least decent (and sometimes pretty good) in the starting spot at RG last year. He really came through after Richard was needed at center. I would even venture to say that he is a better LG than Richard.
I accidentally typed RG there. They should both be LG.
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: The fear of long words is called Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia. Think about that for a second.
Who would you rather see the Colts draft?
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
by KingRichard on Apr 12, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Mack isn't a bad pick.
He’s a solid O-lineman, adds to the depth (As we found out last season, we can never have enough O-linemen), and O-linemen are less likely to bust than DT’s or WR’s. My problem wasn’t with your pick, it was your (and MRW’s) justification for the pick as a Saturday replacement.
As an alternative, I wouldn’t mind Polian drafting Nicks. I refuse to argue about the merits of drafting a receiver in the 1st round (Some arguments just aren’t worth it.), but I thinks Nicks has a good to great chance of becoming a great possession receiver with his size, excellent route running, and great hands. It would also allow Gonzo to move to the outside where he belongs.
Ziggy is also a worthy choice here. A penetrating DT can push the opposing QB outside of the pocket into the waiting tackle of Freeney or the diving swat of Mathis.
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: The fear of long words is called Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia. Think about that for a second.
A question for KING RICHARD
“And if someone like Moreno or Laurinaitis fall, how could you not want one of these guys over someone like Ziggy Hood?”
So, if both Moreno, Laurinaitis and Mack are available at 27…who would YOU pick? aaaaaand….who would you think POLIAN would pick?
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha OK" - Tom Brady
Polian would easily pick Moreno. I would pick Laurinaitis.
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
by KingRichard on Apr 12, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah,i agree in both of those, specially about Laurinaitis.
However i dont see Moreno falling to 27
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha OK" - Tom Brady
by BlueMark1821 on Apr 12, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not entirely convinced...
He’d pick him if he did. The Moreno love-fest amongst fans isn’t something I think is a “sure thing” to be shared by Polian.
Considering (or speculating) you refer to Moreno...
Im not entirely convinced either, mostly because I dont think Polian has ever contemplated Moreno drop to 27…
If he falls, theres at least a 75% he will take him
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha OK" - Tom Brady
by BlueMark1821 on Apr 13, 2009 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions
face the facts.......
past history says we’re drafting a reciever. Anthony Gonzalez and Wayne and Clark for that matter, were all taken when conventional wisdom (and most of the free world) said we should go defense. All 3 of those picks have turned out great (give Gonzo til the end of the season). The only time I can say Polian did what the “experts” said is when we took Marlin and Kelvin back to back. We’ll get a reciever (I’m betting Robiskie), who will in 2 to 3 yrs play at a Pro Bowl level.DT will be addressed later, along with RB, OL and eventually LB
copy/pasting my argument from earlier...
Again, the argument I’ve been using since the beginning of time is, what about the other 3 receivers already on the roster? You are just forgetting about them like they were never drafted themselves. Spending a first round pick on a receiver to fill the 3rd spot on the roster is just pointless. This is why I don’t think Polian is going to blow a first round pick on one.
Like I’ve said before, the Gonzo and Wayne picks really aren’t that surprising because we actually needed them. There was really no one else on the roster other than Harrison when Polian picked up Wayne. Harrison was getting old and was going to start declining at some point, thus Gonzalez was picked. Am I the only one who sees this for what it is and that Polian drafted those guys because we needed them?
You’re dead wrong if you think there is some sort of trend or “history” behind how Polian drafts. He’s only drafted TWO receivers in the first round since he’s been here. He’s drafted just as many running backs as that. So obviously, I could make the argument that since the Colts BIGGER NEED is at running back that Polian is obviously going to draft one, right? Yeah, pretty ridiculous argument huh?
This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.
Robiskie
You’re right, Robiskie may be drafted by Polian. But seeing how he’s a second rounder who started as a 3rd or 4th, I don’t see how….oh, you said he’s drafting a receiver, you didn’t say which round. And the reason Polian hasn’t drafted defense is because…oh wait, he drafts more players on defense than offense. Not to mention that recently we thought we had our DT situation settled but have had 3 bizarre injuries/retirements/pot smoking going into August.
And if your argument is that Polian won’t do what the experts say, most “experts” are saying we’ll take Nicks or Harvin. So I’ll agree with you there.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=article7&news_id=b3668011-afe0-437e-88a7-8c0598721ee2
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
What were you smoking? :)
Sanchez won’t last until pick number 10!
I like Mack a lot.
I have been excited about him as a prospect for a while. That being said, I don’t think he is necessarily more likely than a receiver. I think the argument against receiver is too simmilar to the one against interior OL. To argue strongly for the one and against the other is curious. But I love the idea of having Mack. Kudos to KR for being willing to put it out there.
Can we just have three or four first round picks? We can get all the guys we’d like.
Too much $$$
;-D
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Apr 13, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
True.
But if we can change the rules and have three first round picks, perhaps we can also spot ourselves an extra twenty million or so…
by coltsfanawalt on Apr 13, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
IF THERE'S A COLTS PLAYER I MISS...
it is Jake Scott…damn it… :S. Also, if Hakeem Nicks suceeds (not necessarily with us), I’ll always remember the 1023940 million times I read a King Richard post critizicing him.
David Burton to the COLTS!

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