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Around SBN: Dog Football! Which Breeds Are Best Suited For The Gridiron?

With the 27th Pick in the 2009 Stampede Blue Community Mock Draft, Indianapolis selects...

Sbmockdraftlogo_medium

Evander "Ziggy" Hood, DT, Missouri

27. Indianapolis Colts

Drafter: BigBlueShoe

Reasons for drafting: "The reasons are obvious. Hood offers the best option currently available at defensive tackle, and DT is a major need going into the draft. Hood offers size speed, quickness, and power. Is he someone who will play in a ton of Pro Bowls? Maybe not. Is he someone who can anchor the Colts defense, or provide a stable pass rush from the three tech spot? Yes.

I considered drafting Phil Loadholt or Ebben Britton here, but since so much was used last year to shore up the o-line, I figured the d-line needed some new blood. Thus, Ziggy Hood.

And yes, if Mark Sanchez had been here at #27, I would have drafted him... and so will Bill Polian if that situation happens."

Indy27_medium

Check out Ziggy Hood's scouting report at Mocking The Draft.

Yes, I took Ziggy in the SB Nation Writers Mock Draft as well.

The Eagles and monstersbox are back on the clock...

Poll
So, do you like my pick?
Yes, Hood is the DT the Colts need
131 votes
Yes, but you could have gone WR, OT, or even CB
61 votes
No, Josh Freeman is still there, as if Beanie Wells
20 votes
No, Hood is over-rated at #27
62 votes

274 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 84 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Yeah Sanchez...

Mark “Dirty” Sanchez… I love how you “know” Polian’s mind.

by MasterRWayne on Apr 16, 2009 3:16 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m going to assume we aren’t going to complete the second round mock.

This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.

by KingRichard on Apr 16, 2009 3:19 PM EDT reply actions  

4-5 picks a day

would have to be the pace.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

We could do it

It all depends upon how fast the picks get in.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by Brad Wells on Apr 16, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Beanie would be an awful pick

he can’t catch, run routes or block.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 3:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah but he can run really good, which is primarily what you draft a running back for. Just sayin…

This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.

by KingRichard on Apr 16, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

so I'm sure you loved Kenton Keith

he ran the ball very well. 4.4 YPC, FO’s numbers liked him a LOT as a runner.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be fair...

There isn’t a steady assessment from anyone that I’ve seen that he “can’t catch” simply that he wasn’t used often in Ohio State’s offense as a receiver out of the backfield. We don’t often use our RBs in a traditional “route running” capacity. They usually release and are the dump off option for Peyton. As for blocking, if he can’t block that’s something we’d work hard to improve for him. It would be difficult to pass up on Beanie Wells… but I’d still take Hood first.

by bamock on Apr 16, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't want my guy Greene either because he wasn't recieving out of the backfield

and Greene actually blocks.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

From what I've been able to learn...

Wells has far better hands than he gets credit for. FWIW

by bamock on Apr 16, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I heard your boy on the radio last week.

He was in phoenix working out for the Cardinals. The interviewer brought up the scouting report on him and asked him about his hands. He basically stated that of the three backs that got touches, last year, he made all of the catches. The few times they did throw the ball to a back, it was to him.
He came off as candid and honest, it was a pretty good interview, I hope he does well at the next level.

Defense if more important then breathing.

by BetterD on Apr 16, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

he seems to have his head on straight now

he’s been busting his ass since he rejoined the team last summer. Though he needed to because of the situation he had put himself in by not working hard (kicked off the team for bad grades, pushing 250 from not working out).

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

...

He can do them all as well as Adrian Peterson could coming out of college or Brandon Jacobs. Not many backs in a rush first offense are required to block or catch. And I’m not sure where you get he can’t block, he might not be the best but he has the tools and the basics down to progress. Assuming a player can’t learn more and is at the limits of their football IQ at the end of college is a little off. Jim Brown had a total of 10 receptions in college. Earl Campbell wasn’t a superstar receiver, neither was Eddie George or plenty other successful backs.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Apr 16, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't say he's a bad back

I said he’d be bad for Indy. In their system I’d rather have a Clinton Portis than a Adrian Peterson and I’d rather a Derrick Ward to a Brandon Jacobs.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

and when a say "a (insert RB name)

I’m talking about a back with that skill set. Obviously Portis has way more mileage on him than AP, and Jacobs is significantly younger than Ward. So I’m not saying those player in particular, unless we are ignoring age and mileage.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is just nonsense. Adrian Peterson is the best running back in the league, why would you take Portis over him? And I like Derrick Ward and all, but Brandon Jacobs is the reason the Giants’ running game is so amazing, not Ward.

This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.

by KingRichard on Apr 16, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

because a stone handed RB is worthless in the most important feature of the Colts offense.

I’d rather have a Excellent runner who is a elite blocker/receiver in Indy over a Elite runner who is below average in the passing game.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just like a running back who can’t even run is worthless right?

This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.

by KingRichard on Apr 16, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

they are called 3rd down backs

and they can be very useful. Like Kevin Faulk, the one Patriots player I like.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry Shake...

But you’re over-valuing pass-catching ability out of the backfield. What’s the difference between a short-yardage specialist and a pass-catching specialist? I think we all agree that RB tandems are the way to go, with Jacobs OR Peterson we’re a top 15 or better running team first year. We are probably also instant favorites for the division, and making it to the Super Bowl. Any RB that can offer you that is amazing and a no-brainer. Whether he can catch the pass, or whether catching the ball is his strength or not.

by bamock on Apr 16, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm

I’d definitely take the elite runner if you already have a receiver/blocker/3rd down back. I’d definitely take Wells over Moreno knowing what we have with Addai. How much route running and blocking do you need if you’re consistently getting 4 yards and not having to pass every down? And if you do get into third down, you bring the receiver/blocker in. I mean, that’s what they do in Minnesota. Seems to work pretty well for them. They Giants do it. I’d take Michael Turner of Jerious Norwood.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Apr 16, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

over Norwood, not of

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Apr 16, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well said.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Apr 16, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

you are not going to get 4 yards every down if you telegraph run by bring Beanie into the game

and passing with him in the game isn’t much a solution because then you are downgrading your passing game.

Norwood-Turner is a bad comparision. One of Norwood’s issues keeping off the field is that he couldn’t block coming out.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

So

Explain Peterson/Taylor. Or Jacobs/Ward. Or Jones/Washington. Or Johnson/White. Or Barber/Jones. Or Stewart/Williams.

Every single one of those is a receiving back paired with a non-receiving back. And those are pretty much the best running teams in the league. So yes, I think it works.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Apr 16, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Barber/Jones is the only one that wasn't on a clearly run first team

those teams are happy to give up a bit of effectiveness in the pass game to play to their strength.

and Barber/Jones (Felix or Julius, oh well doesn’t matter) doesn’t really work because MBIII can catch and block. Barber has caught over 80% of the passes thrown to him both of the last two years and averaged about 70% his first two seasons.

I’d love MBIII. MBIII/Westbrook is probably my ideal tandem.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

MB3 is clearly the power back in both the tandem's he's been in

and he caught 50 balls last year, so you can’t call him a non-receiving back by any stretch.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cool

You win. I totally agree with you now. You’ve completely changed my mind. Thank you.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Apr 16, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Has anyone ever been convinced in any argument here?

I was under the impression they always ended in “agree to disagree”, “stop it both of you or you’re banned” or just a loss of interest. That the fun in is the making of the case and what you learn in researching/reading others.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok. I can't help it.

And I know I’m going to regret jumping in the middle of this.. BUT…

Jacobs may not have good hands. But, even for the Colts, it doesn’t matter. The reason he works for the Giants is he wears down defenses, great defenses as a matter of fact. Defenses know that he is going to run and it still works…he gains yardage. Why risk throwing a pass to a running back who can gain yardage even when the defense knows exactly what he’s going to do?

I watched Ward when Jacobs was out that game or two last season…BIG, HUGE difference. The Giants running game was not nearly as effective.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Apr 16, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly right

It was night and day. Even if they were containing Jacobs, they’d tire themselves out and Ward would come in and clean up. But even with everyone trying to stop Jacobs, he still averaged 5.0 ypc. They also stopped using him as a receiver.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Apr 16, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

the Giants O was built totally different though

they were a run first team with a great OL of mauling run blockers.

Jacobs would be a short yardage specialist and/or a fullback in Indy’s O. Kenton Keith was the best runner on the 2007 team and they sent him back to Canada because he couldn’t catch and wasn’t a great blocker so putting him on the field hurt the passing game, which is both Indy’s bread and butter and the more important phase of the game (see Mgrex’s posts on win% with ANPY/A, RB Success Rate and TOP/drive).

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

They sent him to Canada

Because he tipped a TD pass for an interception on the goal line. Not to mention he had 13 receptions and 121 carries. Having over 10% of your total touches being receptions means you’re not solely a power back. Terrible example. Terrible use of Kenton Keith as an argument to dismiss all the other power/speed combos in the league.

You’re into one of your modes where you’re just going to keep arguing, so I’m done with this topic.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Apr 16, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Keith wasn't an example of a powerback

he was smaller than Addai. He was an example of the role a back that can’t catch has in Indy.

That jump and your MBIII comparison is showing a faulty assumption that powerbacks can’t catch and backs that can’t catch are powerbacks.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uh

No, actually, I’d think it’d be the other way around. Those ARE power backs.

One thing though, Brian Robiskie had 42 catches and 535 yards in that offense and he didn’t miss 3 games. Does that mean he sucks? (Beanie had 20% of that in catches. At that rate, if he had played 3 more games, he probably would’ve gotten 3 more catches and finished with 26% of Robiskie’s number.) I mean, obviously it does since you’re saying someone doesn’t have the potential or ability to do something against what their college statistics would lead you to believe.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Apr 16, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying he can't

I’m saying it’s probably not a good idea to put a 1st round pick and millions of dollars into a back who only caught 15 passes in 3 years. Maybe he can catch, but if he can’t that’s a major major problem in Indy’s O.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

But

But it’s cool to give a second round pick and a good chunk of change to a WR who only caught 42 balls and 535 yards last year in the same offense right? Ok, that makes sense now.

Ok, now take a step back for a second and read that again. Yeah, sounds like a terrible argument.

“I’m not going to buy this 100,000 dollar car that has everything I want, but I’m not sure if it can take this turn really fast even though I’ve never really tried, but I will buy this 90,000 dollar car that’s not as good(not saying he isn’t talented but nowhere near Wells) and had similar problems with the turns because I’ve got a hunch.”

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Apr 16, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

8 passes is a lot different than 42

and 29, 59, 42 is a LOT different than 2, 5, 8.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

there's no hunch

Robiskie has taken a shit-ton more curves.

You are saying 130 is the same as 15 and I have the terrible argument.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh

before I starting clicking I thought you had found video of each of Beanie’s catches.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're wrong.

#1. Our O wasn’t built around a pass first idea. It was built around Peyton Manning’s decision making and Edgerrin James amazing abilities.

#2. Whats wrong with Joseph Addai? He is a less talented version of Edgerrin James. Edge said it himself a few years back I cant find the interview now but he said it. Here’s my case for JA.

Edgerrin James, in his rookie year ran the ball 369 times compared to JA’s 226. If JA runs the ball 369 times and averages 4.8 he runs for 1,771 thats better than Edge’s best year. Granted Edge was more healthy his back up was (and everyone should know this…) Keith Elias. Elias took 18 carries that year, Edge took the rest.

If you take away 171 of Dominic Rhodes carries and give them (and even dom’s YPC over those 171) to JA, JA’s stat line would have looked like this:
397 Carries 1662 Yards 4.2 YPC and an estimated 13 TD’s. Not too shabby.
No JA wouldn’t have held up, no doubt. But thats why Dom was there. Talent wise JA is good. He does need a capable guy to step in and take some carries just so he stays fresh. He was playing hurt this year. He isn’t bad just frail.

#3. Edge caught alot of balls no doubt, but Peytons other options were no where near the level that they are now. Even still in 2004 (our best year offensively, ever) Running Backs caught 60 passes, the next year 2005 the running backs caught 60 passes, I even went so far back as 2001 (the backs did catch more balls then because our WR’s and TE’s weren’t what they are now) and when Edge went down pass catching from the RB position did not.

Since Edge left in 2005 The Colts RB’s have averaged 70 catches a year, compared to the three years before that when the backs put up 67 catches a year. (thats actually an improvement.)

When we had Edge most of you probably considered him a good pass catching RB (I would too). However most of you probably wouldn’t consider Dom a great pass catching RB, but when paired with JA they have been great together. Better than the Duo of Edge and Dom. (PS Dom didn’t even play for us in 2007 KKeith did and JA Carried 2005’s RB Rec #s).

My point is this, if we pair a guy with decent hands (ala Dom) our RB’s will catch as many if not more balls than they did during the later Edge in Indy years (you know the ones that we had more than just 88). We dont need a bWest out there catching balls.

With that being said JA is our guy, he can catch, he doesn’t suck, but he does break some what easy, meaning that we need a #2 (a 1.5 if you will). And I seriously feel that we have needs bigger than RB as our #1 but Beanie Wells would work fine. As long as he can concentrate long enough to catch a pass (something KKeith could not do) he’ll be fine. He can pound the rock in short yardage and goal line situations he’s big enough to block everyone but Super Mario and as I’ve said our RB Catch production has not/ will not drop off as long as JA and someone not terrible is there.

So after I’ve written all of this I’m sure I will be argued and thats fine. I know without a doubt that stats dont lie and I’m right but hey, you guys can fight about it all day for all I care. Its not like any of us get paid to actually evaluate any of this anyway.

by shep31 on Apr 17, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

that's good stuff, but I'm not sure how it really relates to what I've been saying

(who were you saying is wrong?)

You point out that Indy’s backs have been a huge part of the receiving game which I very much agree with.

That’s not much of a leap to Colts RBs need to be able to catch well.

and my core point is that they shouldn’t be spending a 1st round pick on a back, who hasn’t shown that he can catch.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 17, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

The point you don’t seem to be getting is that no one has ever said he can’t catch, he just that hasn’t done it much in college, just like your boy Greene. For all we know he could be a great receiving RB. And you can’t deny his running abilities, the guy is top notch. The idea that you would pass on Beanie for a WR just because you aren’t sure whether he can catch, even though he is a phenominal runner is disturbing.

This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.

by KingRichard on Apr 17, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to mention

His favorite as a second round WR is Robiskie, who had a terrible year in the same run first offense.

And what shep was saying, is that if you have a back that IS a very good receiver, pairing him with a north/south power runner is better than two backs that aren’t as good at running, but are great at receiving. When Bush and Deuce were healthy they were looking pretty good.

And if Wells fell to 27, I’m almost positive he’d be the BPA skill position wise unless possibly Crabtree fell. Unless Moreno fell, then it’d be a split. And I think Wells/Addai would be better than Moreno/Addai.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Apr 17, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

.

I’m not so sure I’de be upset if we traded into the middle of the 2nd and took robiskie. But thats another story for another day.

Shake and Bake my point is this… It doesn’t matter who is in the backfield, the balls are going to be flying everywhere like a really, really bad prono. JA can catch it and he’s not a bad runner, if you pair him with a great north south runner like a Chris Wells and use them 50-50 or 60-40 you’re going to get everything you could ever want, and if Wells can catch… thats just gravy man.

We cant go wrong with a big strong downfield runner, we have JA to do the other stuff and while he isn’t an all-pro at the “other stuff” that doesn’t mean he isn’t good enough when paired with another good back to help us get back to the SB.

With all of that being said, I think we have bigger holes to fill in the 1st round. IDK if BP feels that way, and frankly I dont care. He’ll do what he thinks is best and there’s a good chance that in 10 years he will have been right and I will have been wrong.

by shep31 on Apr 17, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh I'm not knocking Robiskie

I actually really like him. I’ve been talking about him since before the Senior Bowl. I think he might be the safest bet as which WR transitions to the NFL the easiest and produces. He may not be a HoFer, but I think he’ll have a decent career.

I do find it hard to argue that Wells wouldn’t be the BPA at 27 unless Jerry was there. And if both Jerry and Hood are gone, I’d be much happier with Wells over Nicks. But in the same breath, I’d probably be happier with trading down into the high second, picking up another pick and possibly trading the new pick with our 29th pick in the second.

Then taking Gilbert and Jennings or something.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Apr 17, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

You honestly don't see the difference

between Well catching 15 passes in 3 years and Robiskie catching 130?

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 17, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah

I see a huge difference. One of them’s a RB and the other one’s a WR.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Apr 17, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Colts cut the most productive runner on their team in 2007

because he couldn’t catch the football. That makes it pretty clear to me that catching the football is not optional, it’s not “gravy” it’s something a back has to be able to do to be a part of the offense.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 17, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now I know you're full of it

Kenton Keith was more productive than Reggie Wayne’s 1510 yard 10 TD season or Dallas Clark’s 616 11 TD season?

Sure.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Apr 17, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

runner=running back

I guess it wasn’t obvious I didn’t include running and catching a ball.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 17, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously?

Are you this thick headed or do you actually believe the words your fingers are spewing out?

He messed up in the playoffs, plus he had a one year deal, and an assult charge not two months after the season ended. Dominic Rhodes was a FA again and looking for a home. There were a million factors that went into it, not just the fact that he had hands made of cement.

It IS gravy if we get a good downhill runner that can catch… we dont need him to.

I do not care what makes it “pretty clear to you” what makes sense to the rest of the breathing world are numbers. and if we dont have any pass catching RB’s on the roster now how are their numbers better than they were when we had a “good” pass catching RB in edgerrin james?

Joseph Addai has proven a few things over his career, one being that he isn’t durable, another being, he has good hands. Why do we need another pass catching RB?

We averaged 3.4 ypc last year as a team. And guess what year was the last year we did that poorly? 1996. And its only the 4th time since the Colts moved to Indianapolis that we’ve had a YPC that low and that includes 9 losing seasons and 2 8-8 seasons.

4 times. Its tied for the 4th worst ypc in the history of indianapolis football. Meanwhile our RB’s caught 79 passes last year and you’re worried about getting a guy that can catch?

Really?

Again your logic astounds me.

by shep31 on Apr 17, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

lol damn

This line will remain in my signature until the Colts draft Rashad Jennings in 2009.
Oh and I write words and stuff for Stampede Blue.

by KingRichard on Apr 17, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

someone lecturing me on numbers over personal observations obviously hasn't been reading the site long

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 17, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's a little arrogant

Just because you’ve been around awhile and compile and know a good deal of stats doesn’t automatically make you right. I’m not exactly sure anyone has agreed with you. I actually think shep31’s argument is extremely valid and completely agree with him. I also think that the stats he used were completely relevant and furthered his argument. In fact, I’m going to rec it.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Apr 17, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

not nearly as arrogant as
I do not care what makes it "pretty clear to you" what makes sense to the rest of the breathing world are numbers.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 17, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Edge, Addai and to a slightly lesser extent Dom

were all good pass catchers. That’s why I’m not citing the numbers like am usually all about. Wells would be a step in a different direction RB-wise.

That they won with a terrible running game and RBs featuring prominently in the passing game would suggest to me that the passing game, which make extensive use of a back that could block and catch is what makes Indy’s offense go.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 17, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

upon further review...

since moving to indianapolis the colts have put up fewer rushing yards only twice than they did in 2008.

Once in 1991 and again in 1992. 8 times over that span a single Colts running back has rushed for more yards alone than the 2008 entire Colts team did.

And you’re really worried about a pass catching RB?

Sir, I’m new to this part of sb nation (normally I’m over with the pacers, but football was my first love) but I’ve got a boring job, an internet connection, and access to pro-football-reference.com if you’re going to make a statement like that one I will either back it or jack it with stats.

by shep31 on Apr 17, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

What Statement?

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 17, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Excuse me.

It seems that I have misspoken.

You see it wasn’t a statement that you made but a stance that you took. So if you take a stance like that one with no facts to back it up… well you get the picture.

And I’m glad to see you rebutting with valid points in regard to your STANCE, you know instead of pointing out an error of speech…

Its been real but I just clocked out kids I’ll check in later.

oh and some of you guys should probably check that site out you might learn a thing or two.

by shep31 on Apr 17, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

So was Kenton Keith better than Addai

he had a better YPC 4.4 to 4.1 and as many TDs in 100 less carries.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Funny you should say that

because Mel Kiper compared Knowshon Moreno to Clinton Portis

Is it April 25th yet?

by Playoff Pride on Apr 16, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm warming up to Knowshon a bit

the 40 and the speed score that followed turned me off, but his performance, size and skill set is a lot like Westbrook’s who would be amazing in Indy’s O and almost my ideal back for them (ideally he’d be more durable so he wouldn’t need a tandem partner or at least a strong #2).

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 16, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Moreno

Is going to be a great player in this league some day….whether for the Colts or some other team. I would love to have a guy like that in our backfield.

by AceOfSpades on Apr 16, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes Moreno would be a better pick

Wells has a bad injury history and the Colts definately dont need that. And Moreno will be better in the NFL in my opinion. Plus i agree on the fact that Wells not being able to catch is not good for the system. But if he had a better injury history he would be a great pick up. Fast hard runners like him are hard to come by, so you dont pass on him for a player with less talent. You adapt and develop him in that area.

by ColtsPurdueFanFromKY on Apr 16, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I love this pick and hope to hell it becomes real.

by tim55 on Apr 16, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Hood or Jerry

PLEASE!!!!

Visit FanIQ.com for sports news, bloggings, polls, and more!

by MrNFL on Apr 16, 2009 3:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Workout

Colts held a workout for Sen’Derrick Marks the other day.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by Brad Wells on Apr 16, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm down on Marks...

He has “big play ability” but if we’re going to draft a DT on day 1 I want them to be able to play 3 downs. Marks has stamina concerns, which is scary given that he was in a rotation at Auburn. IMO/FYI

by bamock on Apr 16, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree

Especially in the 1st Round and if Hood or Jerry is available….they can do better than Marks.

I would rather try to trade out of the 1st for an early/middle 2nd and 6th or something to take Brace and Robiskie than take a chance on Marks.

by AceOfSpades on Apr 16, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Deja Vu?
He also lettered three times in basketball, averaging 15 points per game…. Tuberville noticed him why recruiting another player at his school. Once he saw Marks dunk a basketball, he offered him a scholarship on the spot.

Maybe they just wanted another Marcus Pollard type…..hey does anyone know that Pollard didn’t even play football in college? He played basketball!

Kidding by the way, I always hated it when Deirdorf said that during EVERY SINGLE GAME he did with the Colts.

by AceOfSpades on Apr 16, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Deirdorf...

I have a special nickname for him…D*ckdorf. He always bugged me.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Apr 16, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hood works for me.

Yahoo.

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Apr 16, 2009 4:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Shameless Plug for the BYOBP

Shameless Plug for the BYOBP. (See Shake’s article here)

For the record, I like the Hood pick if the draft falls this way, but the way that the BYOBP is currently configured, it would pick Donald Brown, James Laurenitis, Alphonso Smith, and Eben Britton ahead of Hood. Of course, as the spreadsheet is currently configured it may over-estimate Laurenitis’s fit within the Colts’ system and over-estimate the need for LB, RB, CB and OT, but I thought it was worth pointing out to garner attention for the BYOBP ;).

Note, BYOBP still thinks Hood is a value at the 27th pick, because he is ranked 23 on the board. If the draft shakes out this way, with lots of attention on DEs, there will be plenty of value to be had for the Horse.

by B.P. Glass on Apr 16, 2009 6:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Hood would be a great pick IMO because of the need it fills on this team. I also like Brown and Laurinaitis and would be fine with them too.

If Hood or Jerry are available and Polian passes on them, then the DT situation ends up being a clusterf*ck like it has been for the past 2 years, I am going to give up my season tickets.

Oh wait, I don’t have season tickets. Nevermind.

by AceOfSpades on Apr 16, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have actually

seen a few mock drafts with Hood ahead of Jerry. NFL Draft Countdown has Hood going to the Falcons and Jerry going to the Colts.

Is it April 25th yet?

by Playoff Pride on Apr 16, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would be fine with that

I actually like Jerry more than Hood. I love his bull rush technique and it would be perfect to combine that with Freeney and Mathis or Brock coming from both sides.

Whether they take either one, or if either one is even available, we will see. I just hope that if they pass on one or both of them, they better still address that DT situation in the 2nd or later in the draft because it is the #1 concern for me about this team. Stopping the run should have been issue #1 since after the 05 season and needs more emphasis instead of just one guy (ex: Pitcock and Ed Johnson). There should be some reasonable depth at that spot (like A. Johnson and Muir being backups) instead of putting what equates to oversized LBs lined up against the center and guard.

I just hope last year was a blip in the radar and not a trend that we are going to be seeing with tiny guys playing the most important defensive position against the run. But it seems like we have all been talking about this (stopping the run) for several years now. I just wish Polian was as good at evaluating DT talent as he is at WR talent.

by AceOfSpades on Apr 17, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thread is getting squashed up there so...

shep or MB, explain to how if the numbers shep’s citing are saying anything other than that the Colts have consistently used their RBs as a major part of the passing game, and that the running game wasn’t very good last year.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 17, 2009 4:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Compare Wells' catches to Addai's (who both me and shep seem to like)

Wells caught 15 passes in 3 years.

Addai caught 66 in 4 years (60 in his last 3)

Addai had given scouts a large enough sample for them to know about his receiving skills. No one knows what Wells can do.

On Keith being cut.
Players that see time regularly don’t get cut for one mistake, even if it costs them a game (if they did Tim Jennings and Gijon Robinson wouldn’t be with the team).

The charge against Keith was criminal trespassing for refusing to leave a parking lot, not assault, big difference. Dom was brought back even with a DUI on his record, so Keith’s more minor drunken stupidity didn’t get him cut.

I’m not entirely sure what you are implying with Keith being on a one year deal. He was signed for 2008, then cut September 1st. Keith wasn’t just allowed to leave. He was under contract, then the team gave him the boot.

The Colts had let Dom go, after 2006 when he put up worse numbers than Addai behind the same line, why would they cut a player who had better rushing numbers than Addai for a player who had worse rushing numbers?

Keith was cut because he was dead weight in the passing game.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 17, 2009 4:58 PM EDT reply actions  

because...
  1. Dom was let go because he wanted to be a starter. He did not want to play in Indy. He wanted to be a feature back . How do you sign a UFA if he doesn’t want to sign with you?
  1. Dom’s mistake came while not employed in Indianapolis.
  1. KKeith’s relaese was due to a series of events not just the one or two individually. He had hands of stone, he messed up in the playoffs when we needed him the most, he made a dumb mistake off the field, and we took a chance on a guy from the CFL and he was on a one year contract.
  1. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2832098
    He did not say how he would punish those teams, although stripping them of draft choices is considered one of the most effective ways to do so

    Since the new conduct policy was in place and it was fairly new why would the Colts take that risk? Remember he was a guy we took a chance on from the CFL. He wasn’t a 1st round draft pick. He was cut (besides his play) as a sign of the colts zero tollerance policy… think Ed Johnson another guy we gave a shot that had an extreemly short leash. IDK if they would be quite as hard lined if it had been Reggie Wayne but like I said neither of them were 1st rounders.

But you seem to be getting away from the facts, our run game is terrible while our pass game is fine. in 2004 our best offensive year ever our backs had 60 catches dominic rhodes had 2. last year we were 13th in scoring and our backs caught 79 passes. The in 2004 we rushed for 1,852 yards as a team. This year… yeah we already covered that (What was it I’m feeling lazy.. i believe it was 1,274 this year?). So you see its not our need for a pass catching RB thats whats wrong with our O.

by shep31 on Apr 17, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess...

when you number things they all come out as 1’s? and you’ve only got to hit the quote button once. My bad.

by shep31 on Apr 17, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

of course a not having pass catching back isn't what's wrong with running game

because they’ve always had a great pass catching back and because a backs ability to catch a football isn’t directly related to the running game.

I don’t follow what you are doing with the year to year comparisons because I don’t see how any of the years you have cited are different in the ability of the backs to catch footballs.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 17, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Keith wasn't cut after the arrest

or even any time near the arrest.

He was cut in the final roster cutdown 4 months later. Indy preferred the 3-4 (I forget whether Simpson was on the roster or the PS to start the year) other backs to Keith.

Why does it matter that Dom wasn’t under contract when he got arrested? They brought him back with a DUI on his record, he’d face a sizable suspension if he got another one. Should the Colts sign Micheal Vick because he wasn’t running a dogfighting ring while under contract with the Colts. A guy’s legal baggage follows him no matter what his contract status was at the moment of arrest.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 17, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

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