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Ridiculously early 53-man Roster Debate (*New* OL Poll - Updated 5/01)

SECOND UPDATE: Surprisingly, I got no more requests for particular head-to-head player debates so we're moving on to position roster numbers. This should stimulate a few more head-to-head player polls eventually. Remember to comment, if you're voting "Neither" and to suggest new polls. Thanks for participating!

Also, I'm not ignoring the Keiaho re-signing, but we'll put off adding him back in until we've debated LBs. Plus, I'm convinced he might not make the squad. Those 6 there now, would make me pretty confident with depth and special-teams ability.

UPDATE: We're going to make this a bit more interactive and have some 1 on 1 player predictions first. We'll later do total #s for different positions. We will do them in the order they are mentioned in the Comments section.

I'm absolutely certain I'll be way off (considering we haven't even seen the full list of UDFA's) but they made me take time off at work (mandatory furlough) so I am wasting my time appropriately on the Colts. I'm somewhat guessing on the Practice Squad eligibility rules, but I think they would all still qualify.

Please dissect, rebut and ridicule!

_________________________________________________________

Day 1 (4/28/09): Grady vs. Dawson - Grady wins 17 to 13, I'm sure we'll revisit this roster spot when we're deciding numbers on the DL. Unfortunately, Dawson would not qualify for the practice squad.

Day 2 (4/29/09): Alexander vs. Senn - Senn wins 12 to 11, I was pulling for Alexander, but Senn is more valuable as a ST player, a role which I saw Adam Seward filling, but hey - this is a community thing. As an aside, sorry about the polls being funky, I got it figured out though. Please comment for new 1 on 1 roster spots!!!!!

Day 3 (4/30/09): Hall vs. Giguere - Hall wins 11 to 4, I do feel there's a chance we keep 6 WRs on this year due to the lack of proven depth behind Wayne and Gonzo, but if that's the case we the roster spot form somewhere. Otherwise, Giguere could stick around on the practice squad, unless he's hungry to see the field, in which case he might run off to the CFL, where I'm sure they're anxiously awaiting their prodigal son.

Day 4 (5/1/09): How many Offensive Lineman make the final roster?

 

GO HORSE!!!!

Star-divide

Quarterback Offensive Center Defensive Tackle Weak-Side Linebacker
1. Peyton Manning 1. Jeff Saturday 1. Fili Moala (UT/NT) 1. Clint Session
2. Jim Sorgi 2. Steve Justice
2. Antonio Johnson (NT) 2. Jordan Senn
3. Curtis Painter

3. Terrance Taylor (NT)

Offensive Guard 4. Eric Foster (UT/DE) Cornerback
Running Back 1. Ryan Lilja 5. Adrian Grady (UT)
1. Kelvin Hayden
1. Joseph Addai 2. Mike Pollak
2. Marlin Jackson
2. Donald Brown 3. Jamey Richard Defensive End 3. Tim Jennings
3. Mike Hart
4. Jaimie Thomas (OT)
1. Dwight Freeney 4. Jerraud Powers


2. Raheem Brock
Wide Receiver Offensive Tackle 3. Robert Mathis Strong Safety
1. Reggie Wayne 1. Tony Ugoh 4. Marcus Howard 1. Bob Sanders
2. Anthony Gonzalez 2. Ryan Diem 5. Curtis Johnson
2. Matt Giordano
3. Pierre Garcon 3. Charlie Johnson (OG)
3. Jamie Silva
4. Austin Collie (KR/PR)
4. Cornelius Lewis
Strong-Side Linebacker
5. Roy Hall
1. Philip Wheeler Free Safety

Special Teams 2. Tyjuan Hagler
1. Antoine Bethea
Tight End K: Adam Vinatieri
2. Melvin Bullitt
1. Dallas Clark P: Pat McAfee Middle Linebacker
2. Gijon Robinson (H-B) LS: Justin Snow 1. Gary Brackett
3. Tom Santi
2. Adam Seward Total: 53
4. Jacob Tamme



Italics: Disputed players


Practice Squad
Notable Deletions
Not-so-notable Deletions
WR - Samuel Giguere
RB - Chad Simpson
WR - Taj Smith, John Matthews, Brett McDermott
RB - Lance Ball
OL - Dan Federkeil, Corey Hilliard, Michael Toudouze
TE - Jamie Petrowski, Colin Cloherty
OG/OT - Brandon Barnes
DL - Keyunta Dawson, Daniel Muir
OL - Tome Pestock, Kyle DeVan
OG - Tom Pestock
DB - Michael Coe, TJ Rushing
LB - Michael Okwo, Ramon Humber, Tyrell Sales
LB -Rufus Alexander

LB - Freddy Keiaho DB - Brandon Anderson, Brandon Harrison, Brandon Foster, Nick Graham, Travis Key
DT/DE - Pat Kuntz

P - Tim Masthay, Mike Dragosavich
DB - Dante Hughes

DB - Brannon Condren


Poll
How many Offensive Lineman make the team this year? We're going to give the option of 11, 10, 9, 8. Please comment on your lineup. My original justification for 10 on the active roster and a few for the practice squad was due to the poor play and injurie
11 OL - 5 starters, 6 back-ups (yikes)
0 votes
10 OL - 5 starters, 5 back-ups
9 votes
9 OL - 5 starters, 4 back-ups
6 votes
8 OL - 5 starters, 3 back-ups
5 votes
None of the above - please comment
0 votes

20 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Stampede Blue's writers or editors.

7 recs  |  Comment 47 comments

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Sub Grady for Dawson

Rufus for Senn
and drop Cornelius for Hughes

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 27, 2009 7:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I could see all 3 of those

1. For some reason though, I just don’t see where Dawson fits on the D-line. He’s a hard worker and tough, but I don’t see him being a really effective DT or DE with the players we’ve picked up.

2. That’s legit, Senn adds Special Teams value, I just thing there’s something special about Rufus’ play. When he was at Oklahoma he was all over the place.

3. Especially since I’m keeping so many OL on the practice squad, 9 OL and 10 DB really could be more our style.

by GoHorse88 on Apr 27, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

any WILL backers?

I see Sam and Mike group. didn’t see Session and Hagler.
Is six LB’s enough?

No Shake, no . . .please keep Corny. He’s that nasty dude we could really use. Drop Diem before Corny Lewis. He might even replace Diem.

by oldecoltsfan on Apr 27, 2009 8:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd be willing to drop Jaimie Thomas instead

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 27, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think they will keep 3 QB's

it’s either going to be Sorgi or Painter

I would add another LB or DB to the list as a replacement for the dropped QB

I would like to see Chad Ocho Cinco traded to a team that already has a #85 on the roster. Then, I would like to see #85 refuse to give up his jersey number to Chad Ocho Cinco. That would make my day....

by AceOfSpades on Apr 27, 2009 8:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Polian said that Jim Sorgi was still the back-up

I think they see Curtis Painter as a bit of a project, but not willing to put him on the PS. In the post-draft interview last night he said they’ve basically determined to keep 3 QBs on the roster this season. They can always change their mind though.

by GoHorse88 on Apr 27, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh

Didn’t hear the interview….it’s a little puzzling to me that they would keep 3 on the roster. It would seem more likely that in the even that Sorgi actually has to play, they would sign a new backup or bring Painter back for that.

IMO no need to have 2 guys not playing at all. I would rather have more DT or CB depth.

I would like to see Chad Ocho Cinco traded to a team that already has a #85 on the roster. Then, I would like to see #85 refuse to give up his jersey number to Chad Ocho Cinco. That would make my day....

by AceOfSpades on Apr 27, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They must not want to risk losing Painter to another team by leaving him on the practice squad.

by LukeM on Apr 27, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Possibly the failed 3rd stringers from last year...

Perhaps it’s that the failed “experiment” to find a suitable 3rd string QB last year convinced the Colts that if should anything happen to Peyton or Sorgi, they won’t just be able to pick up some QB off the street and get them into the Colts system. In hearing the interview it sounds to me that the Colts have adjusted their Risk Management strategy on QB and will probably carry 3 QB’s for a while now. Peyton has been stout and probably will remain so but the older he gets the more likely he is to be injured. Risk changes over time and the Colts system is just too complex, too based on timing and recognition of opponent deployment to just bring in a journeyman should 1 or 2 go down. It kind of sucks that we have to dedicate a full time roster spot to it, but many teams do.

by Rob-Westside on Apr 28, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

how does injury status play into whether a player can be on the practice squad? I like Hart a lot, but with his status, I would think they keep a guy like Lance Ball on the active roster. Hart is too similar to Brown so they might rather have a different option like Ball available.

I would like to see Chad Ocho Cinco traded to a team that already has a #85 on the roster. Then, I would like to see #85 refuse to give up his jersey number to Chad Ocho Cinco. That would make my day....

by AceOfSpades on Apr 27, 2009 8:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

True

I think they really do see Mike Hart as an eventual Goal-Line/Short Yardage solution (aka James Mungro) and yet “The Donald” does have some of that same ability to grind out tough yardage from what I’ve seen.

by GoHorse88 on Apr 27, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hart will start the season on the PUP...

If they feel he needs to show more before taking a roster spot.

by bamock on Apr 27, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they say he's going to be ready to go in TC

so I think they are going to choose letting him practice over making him sit to save a roster spot for 10 weeks.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 27, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

PUP

Isn’t that reserved for proj. starters during reg. season?

by GoHorse88 on Apr 27, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

PUP

Allows you to keep a guy on the roster, like Lilja last year, for 10 weeks? into the regular season until you have to IR him or put him on the actual roster. I think Hart will be healthy and will prove his worth in pre-season but should there still be a question or should he not be completely able to prove his worth before the regularly season I foresee PUP before practice squad.

by bamock on Apr 27, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

guys can't practice or play while on the PUP

and they can’t go on the PUP if they weren’t on it at the start of TC.

So if they are PUP’ing Hart he can’t practice until they take him off it.

I don’t think that’s happening, or if it is, not all the way up until the season.

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 27, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We'll have to see on that

putting Hart on PUP does make some sense though Shake. I don’t disagree with you that they probably won’t but ACL’s usually take a year and a half to fully recover. What’s really to be gained from pushing his rehab if we can just sock him away till at least mid-year, and he’ll be fully rehabbed by then? Yes they miss the evaluation time but they got some of that last year. The only question will be has his knee healed and does it affect his strength, speed, agility which you can measure off the field. I’d be inclined to give him to mid-year activate him if you can (assuming there aren’t other huge injury issues) and see what he can do. In the mean time Brown get’s the lion share of snaps after Addai, with Ball getting a few here and there situationally. I don’t know what the Colts will do but that would be my instinct.

by Rob-Westside on Apr 28, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forgot to Indicate our Kick/Punt Returner

Austin Collie can handle both, even though in college I think he had a total of 2 yards, so maybe not.

Sorry about the formatting, I tried to get “Weak-Side Linebacker” to show on the page but it’s not working.

by GoHorse88 on Apr 27, 2009 8:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Where are

The defensive backs?

by furrycolt on Apr 27, 2009 8:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

and WILLS?

David Burton to the COLTS!

by fpacheco on Apr 27, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's a 4th Column

Is it not showing at all on your computer?

by GoHorse88 on Apr 27, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

nope

David Burton to the COLTS!

by fpacheco on Apr 27, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have my setting on Wide up at the top

but Narrow doesn’t show the 4th column – I’ll edit the post

by GoHorse88 on Apr 27, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fixed

easier to just mess with HTML

by GoHorse88 on Apr 27, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see Collie as a kick retuner

I think we want explosiveness out of a returner…on the other side, if Pierre Garcon/Chad Simpson/someone-else starts to struggle and drop balls, we may go to Collie as a Wes Qelker returner that the best thing he’ll do is CATCH THE BALL, then get a few yards. 20 once in a while

David Burton to the COLTS!

by fpacheco on Apr 27, 2009 8:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

His hands

were one of his best traits – hopefully you could at least count on him catching the balls. Plus Rychleski will have the return units doing their job better than they did last year. So I imagine Garcon will have his shot at returning as well.

by GoHorse88 on Apr 27, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Too early and too many things can change.... i'll let Caldwell decide

On a side note guys, i am starting to like Caldwell a lot. He will hold people accountable and isnt scared to change things up to make the team better. He has already addressed most of the teams glaring weaknesses.

Starting with a new DC- bringing in bigger DT’s

New special teams coach (Im being KIND when i say out ST was awful)

Brought in a running back to help the running game.

Also you guys should check out this video of what we should expect.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80fd5d56

by BROWNdude on Apr 27, 2009 10:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

People remember that shotgun splitback set with Addai and Dom I was talking about

that they used near the goal line in 06 and 08, right?

I just didn’t imagine that right?

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 27, 2009 10:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

wrong thread

I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter

by shake n bake on Apr 27, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Folks, rec this

Anyone making roster predictions now deserves a little love for their efforts.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Apr 28, 2009 8:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Okwo

I think Okwo will probably at least make the PS. And Johnson may beat out Taylor in the beginning, but I dont’ see it staying that way long.

I also have a hard time seeing us carrying 10 O-linemen and 10 D-linemen with some of the linemen being able to play both positions. Charlie can play both OT and OG, and Brock can play both DT and DE.

Pretty sure Richard outplayed Pollack last season, and there’s no real reason to have backup centers if almost all our guards were centers.

LB, O-line, and D-line are going to be seeing some serious cuts.

Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.

by monstersbox on Apr 28, 2009 10:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Substitute Richard for Justice... ???

for back-up center.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Apr 28, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd change a little, but overall very similar to mine

QB-Manning, Painter/Sorgi (can’t see them carrying three QBs and Painter would be much cheaper, plus they’re screwed if Manning goes down anyway so why not save money on cutting the Sorge?) (2)
RB-Addai, Brown, Ball, Hart (PUP) (3)
WR-Wayne, Gonzo, Hall, Collie, Garcon, Giguere (6)-They always keep six WRs and from what BP has said about Hall and Giguere I think Giguere stays
OL-Saturday, Ugoh, Diem, Richard, Justice, Lilja, Pollack, Thomas, Lewis (9)
TE-Clark, Tamme, Santi (3)
DE-Freeny, Mathis, Howard, Curtis Johnson (4)
DT-Moala, Taylor, Foster, Johnson, Brock, Dawson (6)
WOLB-Wheeler, Hagler (2)
SOLB-Session, Senn (2)
MLB-Brackett, Seward (2)
CB-Jackson, Hayden, Jennings, Coe, Hughes, Powers (6)-They always keep six, and after last year’s injuries they’ll probably do it again
FS-Bethea, Bullitt (2)
SS-Sanders, Giordano, Silva (3)
ST-Snow, Vinatieri, McAfee (3)
Total-53

I don’t see them keeping Robinson this year after his goat-ish performance during the last sack of ‘08. I figure they’ll try to run one of their extra TEs as a situational H-back. Blocking from that position is going to suck again anyway with the three Dallas Clarks we have on our team, why waste a roster spot on a guy like Robinson who’s slow AND can’t block?

I figure they’ll try to convert Thomas to OT someday, and keep the OT they got of the UDFA list (Lewis), while the three OCs they drafted last year provide solid depth on the interior line. If Lilja’s ready for the start of the season, Charlie Johnson’s gone. His arms are so short it looks like his hands are attached to his elbows.

Dawson is too versatile for them to cut, and he’s pretty darn good, though undersized.

It could be Rufus Alexander, Senn or someone else as that sixth LB, but they will probably keep six. I like Senn because he’s a good special teamer, but who knows?

Good work, though. I did one of these right after the draft was over and I’ve been revising it ever since. My final one could end up looking just like this.

by LukeNukem on Apr 28, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

THANKS SO MUCH for the Recs, I love it - Got an idea....

1. Great feedback!!!! My biggest problem with my own Roster speculation was exactly what other people are picking up on. Too many #s for OL and DL – however, arguably, those were our 2 weakest sections on the roster last year. My original thought was they would want that flexibility so they would keep more people there. However, we really just didn’t have the “quality depth” (to steal a new Polian-ism) that it looks like we might have between those 2 sections of the roster now.

2. My proposal: I will update the roster based on feedback of the masses. If we come to consensus, I’ll make the changes. If things get really heated we can add in polls. Need feedback on whether the effort is worth it. Please let me know!

by GoHorse88 on Apr 28, 2009 1:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Fair Enough

Grady vs. Dawson – go!

by GoHorse88 on Apr 28, 2009 2:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Neither

With Brock under the DE label I don’t see them keeping an additional 5 DT’s. So I’d say both are out. 9 total DL’s would be my preference.

by Rob-Westside on Apr 28, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Players Head to Head

I’ll try to keep it organized and do Players Head to Head first. Please being up new polls and we’ll do them in order.

Per roster section (aka Wayne vs. Giguere – that one I think would be one-sided).

We can later debate total numbers per roster section (aka Keep 10 OL and 10 DL vs. 9 OL and11 DL).

by GoHorse88 on Apr 28, 2009 2:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If you have already voted - is the poll working for you?

Because it doesn’t work for me…

BBS, shake n bake, anyone know how I can reset the polls all together without creating a whole new post?

by GoHorse88 on Apr 30, 2009 8:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hall and Giguere

I voted for Hall in your poll, but I want both around. Giguere can spend another year on the practice squad, but isn’t Hall ineligible now? I’d be of a mind to keep 6 WRs (or put Collie on the PS, though I think it would be somewhat of an admission his 4th round selection was misguided) but with likely keeping 3 QBs that is difficult. Hall is a good ST player; Giguere might be. To keep 6 WRs would mean that the Colts would have to keep one less DB or OL. Usually the reserve DBs double on STs; for Giguere to justify staying on the active roster he’d have to be able to contribute that way.

Actually, it’s a good dilemma to have. Depth is a luxury in the NFL.

The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in the stars, but in ourselves.

by Coltsfan58 on Apr 30, 2009 10:21 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I completely agree

I do want both of these guys around for sure… Hall might actually have some eligibility for the PS though, I think he’s probably only been active for like 7-10 games. I always question the rules on that though. Seems like I’ve heard different stories.

I think Collie was drafted to become our perfect Slot guy – which is very much what I had hoped Giguere would become. Is it bad to have 2 of them at your disposal!?!?! No way, if Giguere can stick around on the PS for a little while longer, I’m ok with it – we need him to work on his hands-catching.

I, by far, see this team at it’s deepest in a long time. I see no single position that isn’t deep. MAYBE Running back, but with 2, 1st round draft picks I don’t think you justify much more depth there.

by GoHorse88 on Apr 30, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Collie

Collie replaces Marvin on the depth chart and the rest remains the same at WR. Hall, Garcon, Collie, Gonzalez, Wayne instead of Hall, Garcon, Harrison, Gonzalez, Wayne.

That is, of course, unless Giguere proves better as a receiver than Collie/Garcon. At which point Collie/Garcon will be fighting for a roster spot on special teams. I don’t foresee that yet but who knows. Is camp here yet?

by bamock on Apr 30, 2009 10:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

WRs

I’ll say only 5 wr. I’d say Giguere only makes the team if he is far and away the best ST gunner in camp. The selection of Collie probably sealed his fate. That is unless Roy goes down again.

Wayne, Gonzo, Collie, Garcon, Hall. Giguere to PS, if he desires.

We also have to figure in the carrying of a third QB. Might need to keep 4 rbs as well.

The PR/KR options look a little scary.

by GonzoBlue on May 1, 2009 6:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Scary

That would be scary to the Colts, not the opposition!

by GonzoBlue on May 1, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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