Finding the Winning Factors - Yards per Drive
This week in the Finding the Winning Factors series, let's take a look at another semi-conventional stat: Yards per Drive. This was suggested by Nideak, so a special thanks goes out to him. This is a very simple calculation, once you get the number of drives in a game:
(Passing Yards + Rushing Yards) / Drives
To make it a little more accurate, I've removed all drives that only consist of kneel downs. I hope nobody objects.
Since this involves searching through the play-by-play data (to find the number of drives), I can only go back to 2001 to see how teams do. That means I'll be looking at 4,080 games over the past 8 years. I did this calculation for every game, then found the overall average for a game. I then went back and compared every game to this average, and found wins/losses based on being above or below average.
Here are some interesting (and exciting) findings:
- The Overall Average for the past 8 years is 28.4 Yards / Drive. I really didn't have any idea about how this number would turn out, but this seems like a reasonable amount. This also means, on average, that any drive starting from the Opponent's 40 should result in at least a FG attempt.
- Like every other category we've looked at, the Colts' Offense was #1 in the league, at 35.8 Yds/Drive. What is most surprising is how dominant the Colts have been in the category when compared to every other team. They are 4.1 Yds/Drive higher than the next best team (Patriots). That is a bigger difference between the Patriots and the 19th best team (Cowboys). Unbelievable.
- The Defensive numbers prove what we've all seen as well: The Colts give up lots of Yards/Drive at 30.8, which is 29th in the league. The Ravens, again, are the best defensively at 23.9 Yds/Drive.
- How often do teams win when they are Above Average on Offense? 1302-757-1, which is 63.2%. Much better than we have been seeing lately. Having an Above Average defense produces a record of 1282-735-3, which is 63.5%, pretty much the same as the offense. It looks like this stat may be a keeper.
- When both the Offense and Defense are Above Average, their record is 706-160-1, or 81.5%. The only thing higher was Adjusted Net Passing Yards per Attempt. It's a keeper.
- The best game since 2001? Week 16 this past season, where the Saints had 66.5 Yds/Drive against the Lions. The Colts best game was Week 11 last year against the Texans, with 59.3 Yds/Drive. They did own the game on Offense.
- The worst game since 2001? Week 14 in 2004, where the Browns only had 1.9 Yds/Drive against the Bills. Yes, you read that right. 26 yards in 14 drives.
- The Colts have the 2nd Fewest Drives in the NFL on both offense and defense since 2001, only behind the Texans. Makes a lot of sense after seeing the average yardage for each unit.
- Only 1 team has not lost a game when both the Offense and Defense have been Above Average, the Lions!. They are 8-0 in such games, which averages out to only 1 per year. The Colts have 40 such games, ranking 2nd only behind the Steelers 45.
- The Bears are the worst Offensive team over the past 8 seasons, almost 2 full yards lower than #31, the Browns. That's really bad. Maybe that Cutler guy will help this stat out, especially after the season the Broncos had on offense last year.
After the jump you'll see the offensive and defensive numbers for each team, as well as Win/Loss records when going above/below the league average. Click on the headers to sort. Here's a link to the last 5 years worth of data. There's not much of a difference, especially since it only took out 3 years worth of data.
Here are the Offensive and Defensive Numbers...
| Team | Offense | Defense | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pass Yds | Rush Yds | Drives | Yds/Drive | Pass Yds | Rush Yds | Drives | Yds/Drive | |
| Chiefs | 28794 | 16187 | 1444 | 31.150 | 28694 | 16515 | 1441 | 31.373 |
| Colts | 33377 | 13519 | 1311 | 35.771 | 24690 | 16331 | 1331 | 30.820 |
| Chargers | 26691 | 16578 | 1425 | 30.364 | 29304 | 13083 | 1481 | 28.621 |
| Seahawks | 27164 | 15547 | 1472 | 29.016 | 28435 | 15034 | 1480 | 29.371 |
| Patriots | 29506 | 14650 | 1395 | 31.653 | 26477 | 13440 | 1431 | 27.894 |
| Saints | 31131 | 13586 | 1460 | 30.628 | 27215 | 15939 | 1448 | 29.802 |
| Broncos | 27813 | 17615 | 1439 | 31.569 | 26197 | 13893 | 1419 | 28.252 |
| Eagles | 28990 | 14739 | 1517 | 28.826 | 25163 | 14540 | 1514 | 26.224 |
| Panthers | 24681 | 14230 | 1510 | 25.769 | 25986 | 14465 | 1504 | 26.896 |
| Packers | 30796 | 14509 | 1488 | 30.447 | 25817 | 14933 | 1496 | 27.239 |
| Rams | 31209 | 13068 | 1473 | 30.059 | 26110 | 16173 | 1452 | 29.121 |
| Texans | 21159 | 11815 | 1227 | 26.874 | 24538 | 14348 | 1219 | 31.900 |
| Titans | 26262 | 15287 | 1486 | 27.960 | 28238 | 13254 | 1471 | 28.207 |
| Jaguars | 25178 | 16277 | 1412 | 29.359 | 26361 | 13344 | 1401 | 28.340 |
| Redskins | 24000 | 15621 | 1482 | 26.735 | 25273 | 14010 | 1468 | 26.760 |
| Bengals | 27277 | 13883 | 1447 | 28.445 | 27484 | 15485 | 1441 | 29.819 |
| Dolphins | 25164 | 14349 | 1479 | 26.716 | 24835 | 14552 | 1459 | 26.996 |
| Steelers | 26004 | 16915 | 1429 | 30.034 | 24175 | 11120 | 1425 | 24.768 |
| 49ers | 23733 | 15153 | 1478 | 26.310 | 28744 | 14281 | 1432 | 30.045 |
| Vikings | 27698 | 16541 | 1458 | 30.342 | 29670 | 13091 | 1447 | 29.551 |
| Falcons | 22974 | 18199 | 1455 | 28.298 | 28493 | 15786 | 1454 | 30.453 |
| Jets | 24637 | 14466 | 1340 | 29.181 | 25709 | 15930 | 1365 | 30.505 |
| Raiders | 25793 | 13494 | 1449 | 27.113 | 25935 | 17045 | 1470 | 29.238 |
| Cowboys | 26500 | 14969 | 1489 | 27.850 | 25491 | 13326 | 1483 | 26.175 |
| Cardinals | 28860 | 11573 | 1474 | 27.431 | 28144 | 15113 | 1479 | 29.247 |
| Bears | 22518 | 13493 | 1555 | 23.158 | 27172 | 13994 | 1590 | 25.891 |
| Lions | 25937 | 11210 | 1474 | 25.201 | 29255 | 16344 | 1462 | 31.189 |
| Buccaneers | 26711 | 13123 | 1466 | 27.172 | 22735 | 14044 | 1464 | 25.122 |
| Giants | 26677 | 16146 | 1478 | 28.974 | 26690 | 14012 | 1485 | 27.409 |
| Browns | 23915 | 12637 | 1464 | 24.967 | 25168 | 17694 | 1451 | 29.540 |
| Ravens | 23094 | 15754 | 1507 | 25.778 | 24948 | 11771 | 1537 | 23.890 |
| Bills | 23855 | 13621 | 1435 | 26.116 | 24952 | 15864 | 1418 | 28.784 |
| Total | 848098 | 468754 | 46418 | 28.369 | 848098 | 468754 | 46418 | 28.369 |
Here are the Win/Loss records of teams when they go above/below average:
| Team | Offense | Defense | ||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Above Average | Below Average | Above Average | Below Average | |||||||||||||
| Win | Loss | Tie | Pct | Win | Loss | Tie | Pct | Win | Loss | Tie | Pct | Win | Loss | Tie | Pct | |
| Patriots | 69 | 11 | 0 | 0.863 | 28 | 20 | 0 | 0.583 | 53 | 7 | 0 | 0.883 | 44 | 24 | 0 | 0.647 |
| Steelers | 59 | 16 | 1 | 0.783 | 26 | 26 | 0 | 0.500 | 60 | 20 | 1 | 0.747 | 25 | 22 | 0 | 0.532 |
| Colts | 81 | 25 | 0 | 0.764 | 10 | 12 | 0 | 0.455 | 41 | 8 | 0 | 0.837 | 50 | 29 | 0 | 0.633 |
| Chargers | 49 | 28 | 0 | 0.636 | 22 | 29 | 0 | 0.431 | 48 | 16 | 0 | 0.750 | 23 | 41 | 0 | 0.359 |
| Packers | 53 | 26 | 0 | 0.671 | 22 | 27 | 0 | 0.449 | 50 | 24 | 0 | 0.676 | 25 | 29 | 0 | 0.463 |
| Cowboys | 46 | 16 | 0 | 0.742 | 20 | 46 | 0 | 0.303 | 44 | 39 | 0 | 0.530 | 22 | 23 | 0 | 0.489 |
| Eagles | 51 | 18 | 0 | 0.739 | 30 | 28 | 1 | 0.517 | 56 | 21 | 1 | 0.724 | 25 | 25 | 0 | 0.500 |
| Ravens | 31 | 22 | 0 | 0.585 | 40 | 35 | 0 | 0.533 | 56 | 32 | 0 | 0.636 | 15 | 25 | 0 | 0.375 |
| Seahawks | 44 | 24 | 0 | 0.647 | 27 | 33 | 0 | 0.450 | 44 | 11 | 0 | 0.800 | 27 | 46 | 0 | 0.370 |
| Jets | 38 | 28 | 0 | 0.576 | 24 | 38 | 0 | 0.387 | 36 | 18 | 0 | 0.667 | 26 | 48 | 0 | 0.351 |
| Broncos | 53 | 26 | 0 | 0.671 | 21 | 28 | 0 | 0.429 | 49 | 18 | 0 | 0.731 | 25 | 36 | 0 | 0.410 |
| Rams | 42 | 37 | 0 | 0.532 | 18 | 31 | 0 | 0.367 | 35 | 22 | 0 | 0.614 | 25 | 46 | 0 | 0.352 |
| Dolphins | 32 | 20 | 0 | 0.615 | 29 | 47 | 0 | 0.382 | 48 | 32 | 0 | 0.600 | 13 | 35 | 0 | 0.271 |
| Panthers | 32 | 20 | 0 | 0.615 | 32 | 44 | 0 | 0.421 | 45 | 27 | 0 | 0.625 | 19 | 37 | 0 | 0.339 |
| Bears | 25 | 9 | 0 | 0.735 | 44 | 50 | 0 | 0.468 | 54 | 27 | 0 | 0.667 | 16 | 31 | 0 | 0.340 |
| Giants | 38 | 26 | 0 | 0.594 | 30 | 34 | 0 | 0.469 | 43 | 25 | 0 | 0.632 | 25 | 35 | 0 | 0.417 |
| Titans | 35 | 22 | 0 | 0.614 | 35 | 36 | 0 | 0.493 | 48 | 15 | 0 | 0.762 | 22 | 43 | 0 | 0.338 |
| Falcons | 44 | 18 | 0 | 0.710 | 18 | 47 | 1 | 0.280 | 31 | 21 | 0 | 0.596 | 31 | 44 | 1 | 0.414 |
| Buccaneers | 37 | 20 | 0 | 0.649 | 29 | 42 | 0 | 0.408 | 50 | 32 | 0 | 0.610 | 16 | 30 | 0 | 0.348 |
| Saints | 39 | 32 | 0 | 0.549 | 21 | 36 | 0 | 0.368 | 32 | 17 | 0 | 0.653 | 28 | 51 | 0 | 0.354 |
| Chiefs | 44 | 35 | 0 | 0.557 | 15 | 34 | 0 | 0.306 | 29 | 13 | 0 | 0.690 | 30 | 56 | 0 | 0.349 |
| Vikings | 43 | 27 | 0 | 0.614 | 18 | 40 | 0 | 0.310 | 35 | 23 | 0 | 0.603 | 26 | 44 | 0 | 0.371 |
| Bills | 29 | 22 | 0 | 0.569 | 23 | 54 | 0 | 0.299 | 38 | 27 | 0 | 0.585 | 14 | 49 | 0 | 0.222 |
| Jaguars | 39 | 31 | 0 | 0.557 | 23 | 35 | 0 | 0.397 | 37 | 26 | 0 | 0.587 | 25 | 40 | 0 | 0.385 |
| Browns | 29 | 18 | 0 | 0.617 | 20 | 61 | 0 | 0.247 | 34 | 28 | 0 | 0.548 | 15 | 51 | 0 | 0.227 |
| 49ers | 35 | 24 | 0 | 0.593 | 18 | 51 | 0 | 0.261 | 28 | 20 | 0 | 0.583 | 26 | 54 | 0 | 0.325 |
| Bengals | 39 | 30 | 0 | 0.565 | 15 | 43 | 1 | 0.263 | 31 | 28 | 1 | 0.525 | 23 | 45 | 0 | 0.338 |
| Redskins | 36 | 17 | 0 | 0.679 | 22 | 53 | 0 | 0.293 | 41 | 35 | 0 | 0.539 | 17 | 35 | 0 | 0.327 |
| Cardinals | 32 | 31 | 0 | 0.508 | 17 | 48 | 0 | 0.262 | 24 | 29 | 0 | 0.453 | 25 | 50 | 0 | 0.333 |
| Raiders | 37 | 21 | 0 | 0.638 | 8 | 62 | 0 | 0.114 | 25 | 33 | 0 | 0.431 | 20 | 50 | 0 | 0.286 |
| Texans | 24 | 26 | 0 | 0.480 | 16 | 46 | 0 | 0.258 | 18 | 18 | 0 | 0.500 | 22 | 54 | 0 | 0.289 |
| Lions | 17 | 31 | 0 | 0.354 | 14 | 66 | 0 | 0.175 | 19 | 23 | 0 | 0.452 | 12 | 74 | 0 | 0.140 |
| Total | 1302 | 757 | 1 | 0.632 | 735 | 1282 | 3 | 0.365 | 1282 | 735 | 3 | 0.635 | 757 | 1302 | 1 | 0.368 |
And finally, Win/Loss records when the offense is above average, and the defense holds the other team below average
| Team | Above Average | Below Average | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Win | Loss | Tie | Pct | Win | Loss | Tie | Pct | |
| Patriots | 34 | 1 | 0 | 0.971 | 9 | 14 | 0 | 0.391 |
| Steelers | 37 | 7 | 1 | 0.833 | 3 | 13 | 0 | 0.188 |
| Jets | 17 | 4 | 0 | 0.810 | 5 | 24 | 0 | 0.172 |
| Packers | 31 | 8 | 0 | 0.795 | 3 | 11 | 0 | 0.214 |
| Falcons | 21 | 1 | 0 | 0.955 | 8 | 27 | 1 | 0.236 |
| Chargers | 30 | 6 | 0 | 0.833 | 4 | 19 | 0 | 0.174 |
| Giants | 20 | 5 | 0 | 0.800 | 7 | 14 | 0 | 0.333 |
| Ravens | 21 | 8 | 0 | 0.724 | 5 | 11 | 0 | 0.313 |
| Seahawks | 23 | 1 | 0 | 0.958 | 6 | 23 | 0 | 0.207 |
| Rams | 22 | 9 | 0 | 0.710 | 5 | 18 | 0 | 0.217 |
| Eagles | 28 | 5 | 0 | 0.848 | 2 | 12 | 0 | 0.143 |
| Jaguars | 17 | 7 | 0 | 0.708 | 3 | 16 | 0 | 0.158 |
| Bears | 16 | 2 | 0 | 0.889 | 6 | 24 | 0 | 0.200 |
| Broncos | 32 | 5 | 0 | 0.865 | 4 | 15 | 0 | 0.211 |
| Cowboys | 28 | 8 | 0 | 0.778 | 4 | 15 | 0 | 0.211 |
| Panthers | 20 | 5 | 0 | 0.800 | 7 | 22 | 0 | 0.241 |
| Colts | 33 | 7 | 0 | 0.825 | 2 | 11 | 0 | 0.154 |
| Buccaneers | 27 | 5 | 0 | 0.844 | 6 | 15 | 0 | 0.286 |
| Dolphins | 23 | 6 | 0 | 0.793 | 4 | 21 | 0 | 0.160 |
| 49ers | 20 | 5 | 0 | 0.800 | 11 | 36 | 0 | 0.234 |
| Chiefs | 23 | 2 | 0 | 0.920 | 9 | 23 | 0 | 0.281 |
| Saints | 18 | 3 | 0 | 0.857 | 7 | 22 | 0 | 0.241 |
| Titans | 22 | 1 | 0 | 0.957 | 9 | 22 | 0 | 0.290 |
| Raiders | 22 | 6 | 0 | 0.786 | 5 | 35 | 0 | 0.125 |
| Cardinals | 11 | 9 | 0 | 0.550 | 4 | 28 | 0 | 0.125 |
| Vikings | 19 | 5 | 0 | 0.792 | 2 | 22 | 0 | 0.083 |
| Bengals | 21 | 6 | 0 | 0.778 | 5 | 21 | 0 | 0.192 |
| Browns | 15 | 4 | 0 | 0.789 | 1 | 37 | 0 | 0.026 |
| Bills | 18 | 8 | 0 | 0.692 | 3 | 35 | 0 | 0.079 |
| Redskins | 22 | 8 | 0 | 0.733 | 3 | 26 | 0 | 0.103 |
| Texans | 7 | 3 | 0 | 0.700 | 5 | 31 | 0 | 0.139 |
| Lions | 8 | 0 | 0 | 1.000 | 3 | 43 | 0 | 0.065 |
| Total | 706 | 160 | 1 | 0.815 | 160 | 706 | 1 | 0.185 |
4 recs |
25 comments
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Comments
Awesome as usual! Your check is in the mail!
mgrex03, Did you include drives that start with under 30 seconds to go in a half? (First halves in particular, since they’d like to score but it’s not as critical as game-winers. Since we’re talking about the last sliver of halves, how about a winning team getting the ball with 2-3 minutes left. All they want is a couple first downs. The losing team has time outs, but the winners are not yet kneeling. They might get two 1st downs (21 yards) and then kneel—does that drive count or not? Just wondering.
Back to the last 30 seconds of a half… 4 thudding Hail Mary’s seems like a stat-killing “drive” that really isn’t one any more than a kneeldown… but then again, if one of them succeeds, the score still counts, so I guess. Ah, never mind.
As a BIG fan of FO’s Drive Stats page, most of this is very familiar to me. The high correlation to winning makes a lot of sense, although as we Colts fans know, the raw number of drives is pretty important too. We could average 80 yards (and 6 minutes) per drive, but if the other guys put together a 12-minute, 18-play drive every time, we only get 3-4 drives a game. Not a lot of margin for error in field position or execution. One fumble or pick (or a single defensive blunder leading to a TD or 3rd down conversion) and down goes the ship.
I am quite impressed by NE, Balt, and NYG’s resiliance and ability to win at a relatively high rate when all their performance is in the toilet. (Strong ST play?) I suspect all of them being outdoor, sort of northeast teams with weather issues means that when they are in the crapper, so is the opponent because of ice, snow, rain, wind, locust plagues, etc. They just happen to be good teams that actually perform, unlike, say, Buffalo or Cleveland, with similar weather. Pitt, surprisingly, despite being a generally good team and having 2 SBs in that time span, does not have a high rate of success when all hell breaks loose. I wonder why…. they often have crappy ST play, so maybe that is the key when your O and D are in the toilet.
This kind of analysis reminds me how important tackling is (hunh?). Some games it looks like the just forget how (often against Jax!). If we had one or two more 3rd down stops per game, on average, over the past couple years, we’d probably have won at least another game and maybe two each year (we always lose a nail-biter or two and those games often feature the opponents having mammoth drives). Better DT play, a clone of Bon Sanders, whatever it might be, forcing one more punt (unless it’s Mike Scifres) per game would be so huge.
Great job.
I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.
by Bobman on Apr 7, 2009 1:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I did include them
The only drives I left out were ones that only had kneel downs. If a team got a first down, then kneeled down, I counted it as a drive. I basically figured if they tried to get yards, it counts as a drive. Had to draw a line somewhere.
I’m not completely done with drive stats. I just figured out how they are calculating Drive Success Rate (after getting their 2005 book), so I’ll be looking at that as well, and I think it will be very similar to these numbers. That won’t put any more importance on a late game drive, but it will analyze drives one first down at a time. I also think I’ll look at Time of Possession per Drive, as that has been a killer to the Colts, just like you said.
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
by mgrex03 on Apr 7, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This might be my favorite one so far
Very impressed with it and very VERY impressed with how good the Colts offense is. Honestly, if you complete this whole series of winning factors without finding the perfect one, it will be worth it just in that we are all realizing just how impressive the Colts offense has been with Manning (and we now have more ammo for arguing about it). It’s really unbelievable that there is a 12 yard difference from top to bottom on offense and a full third of those 12 yards comes between 1st and 2nd place. That is just crazy
"If you don't [draft me], I promise you I'll come back and kick your ass for the next 15 years."
by psvirsky on Apr 7, 2009 1:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm looking more for a combination of factors
This stat is very good, and will definitely be included.
And I really hope the Colts are #1 in every possible category.
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
by mgrex03 on Apr 7, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Word of warning
Just don’t fall into a CHFF trap and pick the analyses that just happen to make your team come out on top, and toss the others aside. While those guys might sound persuasive for a 5- or 10-minute conversation, after a while you realize their arguments are pretty flimsy. Or maybe their arguments are somewhat sound but they ignore/dismiss a whole lot of other sound arguments too, which mught just happen to contradict the ones they selected in the first place.
I doubt you’d fall into that trap, but human nature being what it is, I figured I’d mention it. Nobody wants to become the next CHFF. It’s like my 4 year-old telling me he wants to be WALL-E when he grows up so he can live in a dumpster and crush garbage. Please, son, shoot a little higher than that!
I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.
by Bobman on Apr 7, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That definitely is not my intention
I’m willing to try any whacked out stat to see if it leads to winning games. The Colts won a lot of games over the past 8 seasons, so it makes sense they’d be good. I’m soliciting ideas from everyone.
I was very surprised they led the league in RB Success Rate. That’s when I first started thinking that the Colts will lead the league in every offensive category analyzed. But I won’t leave it out if they aren’t #1.
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
by mgrex03 on Apr 7, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RB Success rate
Now that is a stat our offense is basically constructed to win—like a west coast passing attach SHOULD have a high QB rating (higher than a downfield bombing attack with lower pct completed). But our guys rarely break them beyond 10-15 yards—both the success and 15 yard “ceiling” are the result of #18—the D plays safeties deep, allowing us to have a strong, short-medium run game, but stopping deep stuff.
Edge ruled success rate for about his last 3 seasons in Indy and Addai picked up where he left off. Dom was high in 2006 as well. No concidence. Not a glamorous life for a RB (few highlight reel runs, a lot of 4-5 yarders, no jitterbugging inthe backfield to turn lead into gold like Barry Sanders), but not a bad one either (12 wins a season, SB shot every year, etc).
I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.
by Bobman on Apr 7, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're taking suggestions? And you'll try any stat?
Bad move. You’re talking to an extremely curious person.
In light of our most recent playoff game, I’d like to know percentages for:
Net punting yards/game AND
Average starting field position
Just ‘cuz I’m curious, I’d also like stats for Time of Possession (for the game), penalty yardage (if you really want to, you can also do # of penalties), and # of first downs.
I also would like to know how good of a predictor pythagorean wins is. If you don’t know what pythag wins are, here’s a page with the formula. It would be a question of if the team with greater pythagorean wins won the game or not.
Thanks in advance :-)
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: In my bedroom, I have 3 footballs with both Mike Vanderjagt's and Gilbert Gardner's signatures on them. Interesting story. Maybe I'll tell you about it sometime.
by Cassieper on Apr 7, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet starting field position is a huge indicator
of winning probability. But it’s a grab-bag stat combining your KR team, your PR team, fumbles recovered and INTs. Clearly, if your average start is your own 40 or better, you’re in good shape. Your own 10 or behind, and you have a tough row to hoe.
Now differential or relative starting field position is also interesting and probably even more strongly correlated to winning. If you both start at the 40, well, it’s a push. But if you start at the 40 and THEY start at their 20, you have a 20 yard edge, on average, each drive. That is mammoth. That extra 20 yards in position is like 67% of another possession (or 55% for the Colts), EACH TIME THEY TOUCH THE BALL since the typical possession looks to be about 30 yards. So for every 5 average possessions in that theoretical game, it’s like you had eight chances with the ball, or three more than the opponent. I like them odds of winning.
And that combined starting position “stat” combines even more aspects of the game—your punting game, your kicking game, coverage units, D, and turnovers both for and against. Probably too broad-based to be useful (it might be like saying the team with more points wins 100% of the time—I bet a team with a 10 yard delta wins 65% of the time, and a team with a 20 yard edge wins like 80%, 30 yard edge, if it has ever happened, above 95%).
I wonder how KO returns for TDs and PRs for TDs are recorded in that metric… Thinking of Darren Sproles’ two returns against us in 2007.
I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.
by Bobman on Apr 7, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll add them all to the list
I’m open to anything because I want to find the best formula for predicting games. I’m not going to rule anything out without trying first.
I’ll look into the Pythagorean stuff too. I’ve definitely seen it and know about it, and know how to figure it out with data I already have.
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
by mgrex03 on Apr 7, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love that CHFF had an article pimping how great one of their stats were at picking the playoffs
then at the bottom it has the records of their other stats and all 6-8 of them were under .500.
They threw shit at the wall and threw a party when some stuck.
I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter
by shake n bake on Apr 7, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What kind of stats did they use?
I don’t frequent CHFF. Were they ones they made up, or common ones?
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
by mgrex03 on Apr 7, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
made up
I don’t either, I just saw a link on a respectable stats site and laughed at the article. I’ll dig it up.
I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter
by shake n bake on Apr 7, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
here
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=2674
over the last two postseasons their made up stats performance.
One went 20-2 (the shit that stuck)
their other 6 of theirs they made up went between 12-10 and 7-14.
I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter
by shake n bake on Apr 7, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to stop work
And see how that would have done in previous years, as I’m loaded with data, and these are very simple calculations.
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
by mgrex03 on Apr 7, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sceptical of it's usefulness
since it doesn’t distinguish between degrees of “better-ness”, because it uses rank in the league instead of the actual values.
I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter
by shake n bake on Apr 7, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here we go...
2008: 10-1
2007: 10-1
2006: 6-5 (The Colts were ranked #32, and they won the Super Bowl)
2005: 6-5
2004: 6-5
2003: 5-6
2002: 8-3
2001: 8-3
The first and last 2 years were fine…the middle years very mediocre.
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
by mgrex03 on Apr 7, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty bad
All they did was pretty much rank them pretty close to the best defenses. That’s pretty amateur. I don’t read that site, but they sound a bit arrogant from the two seconds I read. I think me and shake have come up with better statistical analysis than that at 2 a.m.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
by monstersbox on Apr 7, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they are insufferably arrogant
they refer to themselves in the 3rd person. That’s all you need to know.
I got Summer hatin' on me cuz I'm hotter than the sun. Spring hatin' on me cuz I ain't never sprung
Winter hatin' on me cuz I'm colder than Y'all. And I will never, I will never, I will never Fall.
-Lil Wayne, Mr. Carter
by shake n bake on Apr 7, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everything is "after-the-fact" analysis
It’s “look at our final rankings, and see how many top teams made the playoffs”, so these lead to winning football games."
Or “The Top X in this category won games at Y% clip, so this stat leads to wins more than other stat”.
Usually X = 10 with them, but it is such an arbitrary number, I had to use X. Why not use all games, and actually look at the games individually, instead of a macro view of the entire season? I see why now I don’t look at their site.
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
by mgrex03 on Apr 7, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Cherry picking. In fact, you just showed that the one stat they said was a keeper, actually sucks. If I do stat analysis, which I do quite a bit, I make sure to take at least a large enough sample to actually see what’s happening. And normally I’ll take from different eras to see trends. Otherwise I could say that playing the AFC West and NFC West statistically means you’ll have a winning record. That may be true for 2008, but that’s definitely not a true stat to pat yourself on the back for.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
by monstersbox on Apr 8, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate it when
shit sticks to the walls.
just nasty. of course if it’s in CHFF’s offices, who would be able to tell the difference?
I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.
by Bobman on Apr 7, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am interested to see stats about time of possession or avg time consumed on drives (both offense and defense) too.
Good stuff!
by AceOfSpades on Apr 7, 2009 10:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great analysis!
mgrex03, how are turnovers counted, if at all?
by LovinBlue on Apr 7, 2009 11:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In this, they aren't
I just took the raw yardage and divided by the Number of Drives. Indirectly, if a team has a lot of turnovers, they will probably have more drives, but I didn’t do anything special for turnovers.
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
by mgrex03 on Apr 7, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs


















