Depth Chart Battle: Slot Receiver
by Colts Homer on May 12, 2009 7:19 PM EDT
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PrintI'm really looking forward to this position battle. Receiver was a position that a lot of people thought would be the Colts first priority in the draft. It ended up being the fourth one of the board, but good receivers are still necessary to run the offense to perfection. That's why I am going to love this battle. A few guys that were unheralded coming out of college--at least compared to Wayne and Gonzalez--will be battling to step in where one of the greatest players in NFL history left off. Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, and Roy Hall will all be battling for the position. The breakdown is after the jump.
2008 Stats
Preseason: 7 catches, 74 yards, 10.6 yards per catch
Season: 4 catches, 23 yards, 5.8 yards per catch
Scouting Report
Positives: Adequate size, larger than most small-school prospects. ... Long limbs. ... Accelerates well and is also a strong runner after the catch. ... Blows by defenders at the Division III level. ... Good speed and quickness. ... Used on bubble screens and shallow crossing routes to get the ball in his hands early. ... Also a deep threat, able to adjust to the ball in the air. ... Good hands on punt and kickoff returns. ... Can get upfield quickly and shows a burst to hit the hole hard.
Negatives: Will need to prove he can be mentally and physically strong enough to handle NFL defenses. ... Creating separation may be an issue at the next level. ... Inconsistent effort and success in downfield blocking. ... Not challenged on the line very much, may struggle to beat jam. ... Will dance a bit on returns.
My Take
To be honest, I was surprised that Polian was so open about his praise of Garcon. As a sixth round pick, Garcon did not do much outside of kick returning, something he frankly could not do at the NFL level. However, Garcon has a lot of potential as a receiver. He isn't the fastest or the biggest, but he would be a quality Stokley-like slot receiver. Garcon is the favorite to be the slot receiver right now, but a lot can change with such a close competition. If Garcon can get on the field consistently, Peyton can make him look good. There is no doubt about that. The problem is the fourth round receiver who dominated the Mountain West Conference in college.
Stats (at BYU)
Season + Bowl: 106 catches, 1538 yards, 14.5 yards per catch, 15 TDs, 18 kick returns, 495 yards, 27.5 yards per return
Scouting Reports
Positives: Legitimate NFL build. Muscled up athlete. Faster on the field than his rather pedestrian 40-yard dash time would indicate. Good initial quickness off the snap. Good hand usage and lateral quickness to gain a quick release against press coverage. Sharp, savvy route-runner. Varies his speeds and can sink his hips to generate separation. Good burst laterally. Works his way back to the ball if he sees his quarterback in trouble. Soft hands. Snatches the ball out of the air and is quick to put it away. Can track over either shoulder. Good elusiveness to make the first defender miss and strength to run through arm tackles. Good vision and will cut it back inside. May lack elite deep speed, but good early acceleration. Averaged 26.5 yards per kick return from 2007-08.
Negatives: Questionable deep speed to challenge over the top. Will be older than most NFL rookies (24) due to his LDS mission. Questionable level of competition. Statistics inflated due to BYU's scheme and defenses keying on TE Dennis Pitta.
Collie is a sharp, precise route runner who knows how to get open. His football speed is a tad faster than his 40 yard time (ran a slow 4.55 at the Combine). He has quick feet and is more athletic than many believe. Excelling at selling fakes, Collie has very good hands. He lacks prototypical size, but doesn't get shoved off his routes; he gets up and grabs anything thrown his way. He has a good demeanor.
Collie lacks explosiveness and initial burst off the line. He will get jammed at the line by physical cornerbacks and he does not achieve separation. Collie tends to run a little upright. He does not like to cross the field and is a suspect blocker, at best. Collie's numbers were inflated by a pass-happy offensive system. Still, the BYU great does have significant upside. He would never be a big play receiver in the NFL, but could find a very good spot as a primary, possession receiver. He is a fifth to sixth round prospect who can pan out in a big way; an intriguing prospect.
My Take
Collie was a great pick. He has all of the skills needed for a slot receiver, and the production at BYU is a great indicator of his skills. He is a lot like Brandon Stokley with his reliable hands and great route running, and he is destined to be a favorite target of Peyton Manning. The question is if he will be the slot receiver this year. Garcon is a favorite of Polian, but he didn't draft Collie for nothing. Collie has the skillset for the position, but training camp and preseason will be the deciding factor. Garcon, Hall and Collie all will have a lot to prove. Right now, I would think Garcon is the favorite, but Collie could easily surpass him before the season opener.
via www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com
Stats
2008 preseason: 6 catches, 51 yards, 8.5 yards per catch
2008 season: 1 catch, 9 yards
Scouting Report
ESPN
Strengths: Possesses excellent straight-line speed, shows a second gear when tracking the ball downfield and can stretch defenses vertically. Is big enough to shield defenders from the ball, is tall enough to compete for jump balls and has the potential to develop into a productive red zone target. Though inconsistent in this area, generally gets into good position, can sustain blocks and flashes the ability to knock defenders to the ground. Is big enough to line up at H-Back and has some versatility. Gets downfield quickly, has experience covering kicks as well as blocking for kick returns and should make an immediate impact on special teams.
Weaknesses: Takes too long to reach top speed and isn't nearly as effective when slowed down at the line of scrimmage. Doesn't show great burst coming out of cuts, isn't a fluid short-to-intermediate route runner and should have problems separating from man coverage. Isn't explosive, doesn't have the moves to regularly make defenders miss when gets into space and isn't much of a big-play threat after the catch. Appears to take plays off when isn't a primary receiver and effort needs to be more consistent. May not want to line up at H-Back or tight end and could become a distraction if asked to change positions.
My Take
Roy Hall is a freak. He's 6-3, 240 and has ran a 40 in under 4.4 seconds. However, it doesn't matter when he is never on the field. He has played in only 7 regular season games in his career. He separated his shoulder playing special teams as a rookie and had a lingering knee injury last year. This will be the make-or-break year for his career. The Colts have enough good young receivers to be at a point where Hall is expendable. He will need to stay healthy this training camp to make the roster.
Chance of being slot receiver
Garcon: 40%
Collie: 40%
Hall: 20%
Chance of making roster
Garcon: 100%
Collie: 100%
Hall: 60%
Sam Giguere: 5%
Overview
I think the Colts are pretty well off at this position. They have a third year player with freakish athleticism, a second year player that Polian loves and a rookie who is a Stokley-clone battling for a position where they will be going against linebackers and safeties. With Gonzalez, Wayne and Clark they will rarely face a decent cover man. I expect whomever gets this job to have a great year. I think Garcon will get it, but Collie is the future. They will both see playing time on offense, especially if there is an injury.
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I think Dallas will be used in the slot alot
compensating for the lack of experiance at slot WR.
OH NO WE SUCK AGAIN!
Dallas is just about as good in the slot
as Stokley was. imo.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on May 12, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I think Dallas is a better slot WR
he is a average blocker. If the Colts develope a good slot WR then they would be unstoppable. But until then we have to put up for defenses take advantage of inexperiance and rookie errors at the slot. Such as pushing them off their routes and waiting for tipped balls. I love rookies……..
OH NO WE SUCK AGAIN!
by colts9318rock on May 12, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
this is interesting also because they aren't just competing with each other
they are also competing with Gijon, Santi and Tamme to decide how often they go to a 3 WR set, over the base 2TE
Some Finals Week Themed Weezy
I'm a specialist vet, no testin' the best
I be in class, no pencil, no test on the desk
-Lil' Wayne "Get Your Shine On"
Hall
I have been intrigued with Hall since he was drafted. I hope he gets a legitimate shot to win the position. His physical tools combined with speed make the possibilities scary for defenders. If his head is on straight, and he puts to use his schooling, there may be no stopping him. Can you picture the blocking matchups on the stretch play…..or even blocking down on an outside backer?
Hall on matchups
Exactly – slide Hall into the slot and let a linebacker cover him? Now THAT is a mismatch – but only if he can prove that he has developed the skills to be a legitimate WR in this league.
by the_iowa_hawkeye on May 13, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Garcon, Dude could be awsome
Man I’m hoping Garcon can catch the slot position, he is Roy Hall’ish with much more produciton in college and in game experience,
bq.Very strong, stocky, shifty and quick, Garcon has great hands and is adept at fielding punts and kicks.
He brings in some serious YAC posibilities. I always hoped Hall would be the guy, but, he can’t stay healthy. Garcon could be very good in the slot, and I like that BP has said good things about him. Can’t wait for the season to start.
http://www.nfl-draft-site.com/2008/02/small-school-nfl-scouting-combine.html
Defense if more important then breathing.
quotetation marks missing
“Very strong, stocky, shifty and quick, Garcon has great hands and is adept at fielding punts and kicks.”
http://www.nfl-draft-site.com/2008/02/small-school-nfl-scouting-combine.html
Defense if more important then breathing.
"Garcon is the favorite to be the slot receiver right now"
Curious – who’s favorite? Yours? The coaching staff’s favorite? Whos?
by the_iowa_hawkeye on May 13, 2009 9:26 AM EDT reply actions
Polian did say he expected Garcon to have the biggest impact
of all last year’s rookies.
Some Finals Week Themed Weezy
I'm a specialist vet, no testin' the best
I be in class, no pencil, no test on the desk
-Lil' Wayne "Get Your Shine On"
by shake n bake on May 13, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, he did...
But the group he was asked about did not include either Hall or Collie. So to take those comments and stretch them as an indication of who will get the starting job in the slot would be to take them out of context.
Besides, I do believe he was asked who out of last year’s rookies would make the biggest improvement. I could be wrong, but that is what I remember. I’m not on a network where I can review the video right now so I can’t double check.
by the_iowa_hawkeye on May 13, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
but that group does include
Mike Pollak, who is more than likely getting a starting guard spot, Wheeler who is getting first shot at the SAM job and Tamme/Santi who are trying to win the H-back spot and increase that spot’s role at the expense of the slot WR.
Some Finals Week Themed Weezy
I'm a specialist vet, no testin' the best
I be in class, no pencil, no test on the desk
-Lil' Wayne "Get Your Shine On"
by shake n bake on May 13, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
re-watched it
the question was biggest impact, Polian answered biggest leap.
Some Finals Week Themed Weezy
I'm a specialist vet, no testin' the best
I be in class, no pencil, no test on the desk
-Lil' Wayne "Get Your Shine On"
by shake n bake on May 13, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Classic Polian
Dodge one question by answering something else.
by the_iowa_hawkeye on May 13, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure it was intentional
It seems like he got himself off track working in the Marv Levy quote about the best rookies being last years and the big jump from year 1 to year 2.
Some Finals Week Themed Weezy
I'm a specialist vet, no testin' the best
I be in class, no pencil, no test on the desk
-Lil' Wayne "Get Your Shine On"
by shake n bake on May 13, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Either way
I don’t think you can take his answer as an indication of who will get the slot position, or even who is favored. That would be taking it out of context since the answer he gave dealt with which of last year’s rookies would make the biggest jump in development – not who was the best of the three WRs Garcon, Hall, and Collie.
by the_iowa_hawkeye on May 13, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I see that to mean
that Polian doesn’t expect Pollack or Wheeler to be improving as much as Garcon has improved. That doesn’t mean Garcon plays his position better than Pollack or Wheeler play their position, just that he started out at a much lower level and has had to make a much bigger leap just to be considered for the slot. Hence more improvement.
by the_iowa_hawkeye on May 13, 2009 9:47 AM EDT reply actions
I think Hall may be the biggest surprise this year at receiver.
Although Collie will doubtless be the long term answer.
I see Collie
Being drafted to be groomed to take over on the outside in the event we can’t resign either Wayne or Gonzo in two or three years when their contracts are up.
by the_iowa_hawkeye on May 13, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting take.
At whatever position, I think he is the one we are most likely to retain long term. Unless Hall performs as we all hope he will. I think that Garcon is the least likely to be one of our top three in three years from now, but that is just my observation and opinion. Hall’s chances depend on his health and continued development this year, and Collie is the best bet to be an active and productive Colt still down the road.
by coltsfanawalt on May 13, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s not going to happen. Polian isn’t going to let either Wayne or Gonzo walk.
by KingRichard on May 13, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
He let Stokely go
Both Wayne and Gonzo have their contract come due in the same year along with Mathis, Diem, Pollak, Saturday, and Wheeler. Granted, both Saturday and Wheeler will likely be allowed to go and perhaps Diem also. But Wayne, Gonzo, Mathis, and Pollak all in one year could be really had to do – especially after just signing Manning the year before to what is likely to be the biggest NFL contract of all time.
There is about $40 Million worth of cap space that comes due for renewal in 2010, and another $31 Million in 2011, including Gonzo and Wayne. It could come down to pure finances wheather or not we keep both. I would think it really depends most on how well Gonzo does this year and next. If he proves to be the next elite WR then he’d be worth the money – if he’s just mediocore at the next level then I could see Polian letting him go.
The same could be said of Wayne. If he doesn’t start to decline then he’ll be resigned. If he does start to decline over the next two years then Polian isn’t going to be caught with another Harrison and will let him go.
by the_iowa_hawkeye on May 13, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I think one concern with Stokley was injuries
when the Colts said adios. He wasn’t exactly young and he had some (not a lot) trouble keeping on the field previously. To me is seems that Polian just wasn’t certain of Stokley’s value when you combine production (great) injuries (so-so, uncertain), age (hard to tell how guys age) and salary costs (not cheap). Looks like he MAY have misjudged a little based on Stokley’s past couple years, but what’s the aphorism…? Something like “better to miss on the early side than the late side when deciding when to say good bye to a vet.”
But your “bucket of cap hits” argument is pretty sobering…. Glad it’s not my job to decide and plot a course through those waters.
I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.
The cap hits over the next three years
was one reason I thought Polian was going to try to keep skill position players to a minimum this last draft – just pure cap management. When he picked up an expensive skill position in the first round I instantly saw that he picked Addai’s replacement.
It is complete bullcrap to say that Brown wasn’t picked to replace Addai. That is EXACTLY what he was picked to do. Addai’s contract comes due in 2010, the same year as Mannings. He won’t be resigned. In fact, if he doesn’t put up some really solid numbers this year he won’t even make it that far. But either way, the Colts simply can’t afford to have two #1 RBs on the team – the money simply isn’t there. The Colts spend their O money on the passing game, not the running game. They’ll pay to have one #1 RB, but not two.
Notice when Polian said in his presser after the first round pick that this says to Addai ‘that you’ll have a longer career,’ he didn’t say that that longer career would be with the Colts.
by the_iowa_hawkeye on May 13, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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