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i think that BBS was very intelligent and very good at getting his point to Bob across, and all Bob could come up with was that there is no accountability. I would have taken him more seriously had he come up with more than one thing, which really doesn’t even pertain to the topic, as accountability is not a big thing on the internet, as long as you can prove you are not lying and don’t post false content regularly. BBS also made a very good point with network traffic, that in itself showed 2 things: 1) Bob Kravitz doesn’t research much when he goes to attack something, and 2) That BBS is well known and respected and people love this site (as do I, been reading the blog for a while. good stuff guys! keep it up!) and prefer the blog to the actual supposed “final and most credible” source of information that is the media. I think Bob was just more scared of losing his viewers than actually hating blogs, and just wants to make them out to be a bad guy.
by 18to87 on May 16, 2009 5:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good stuff
Nice work by BBS and DZ.
Kravitz clearly does not understand the new media. He is evaluating the validity of new media using the criteria of traditional media. This shouldn’t come as a surprise to anybody; it happens every time new technology impacts the social structure. When airplane travel first started gaining traction, many dismissed it as a fad. Same with TV. And cable TV: “Nobody’s gonna pay for TV when there’s plenty of free TV to watch!”
Blogs are not traditional journalistic enterprises. But — heads up , Kravitz — traditional journalistic enterprises are dying. We don’t know right now what sports journalism will look like in the next generation, but it damn sure won’t look like what people of Bob Kravitz’s generation are accustomed to. Perhaps when teams like the Colts loosen their restrictions on media credentials for blogs, we will get a better idea. Until then, people in traditional media will continue to cling to the one advantage they have over the volume and diversity of the blogosphere: access.
In the meantime, I will continue to read Stampede Blue and 18 to 88 and whatever else I can find that gives me the news, opinion, and analysis that a generic, study-grouped, corporate-run newspaper will not.
And Bob Kravitz will continue his obsession with people’s names. And as many have said before me on this site in the last couple of days, what exactly is up with that? Anyone can contact a site administrator through email. And if bloggers ever do get credentials from the Colts, the Colts will certainly know who these bloggers are and how to contact them. Kravitz’s objections would be maddeningly irrelevant if they weren’t so sorrowfully out of touch.
by ctnyc on May 16, 2009 5:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gotta tell you...
BBS brought down the house. Tremendous.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on May 16, 2009 6:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well
I had to a tough act to follow. :)
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
by BigBlueShoe on May 16, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kravitz only has one point, and it's a flawed one
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by MrNFL on May 16, 2009 7:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What happened to King Richard going on with Krapitz?
Long time reader, first time poster. Have been getting a real kick out of the Krapitz v. bloggers battle being waged the last couple days. Quick question: What happened to King Richard going on instead of BBS? Did the station insist that BBS go on? Just curious. Thought BBS held up very well.
by MichaelJulius on May 16, 2009 7:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe that both BBS and KR were on,
but 1070 hasn’t put KR’s review online yet. Go figure.
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I would do nothing for a Klondike bar.
by Cassieper on May 16, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To set the record straight, I had been emailing back and for with Kravitz ever since he posted that article. He invited me onto the show because I had been talking to him. BBS was fine with this once I told him about it, but when the powers that be (the guys who run SB Nation) heard about Kravitz’s article and their attack on Stampede Blue, they believed it would be best that BBS appear on the show instead of me. BBS runs the blog, I just write here. So in the end, it was BBS who went on air instead of me, which was for the better in my opinion. Although I would have loved to do it.
That’s the gist of it.
by KingRichard on May 16, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well done
I got to hear BBS talk live and was really impressed, you made good solid points, backed up with facts, and never did what I would’ve done, which is lost it and verbally assaulted Kravitz with a string of F bombs. Kravitz was acting like a little kid, talking over BBS and making jokes, it really was quite frustrating to listen to him. The only saving grace in the whole thing was that fat gasbag Eddie White wasn’t there to drive me into a manic rage.
I for one come to SB or 18to88 first whenever I hear a report come out so that I can get some good, detailed analysis. I’m a fan and I’m definitely not trying to be objective…I like a little blatant homerism mixed in with my good solid analysis. That being said, I’m not coming to these blogs to hear that everything will be alright. I like the fact that I’m getting the real deal, even if it means that DZ is predicting the Colts lose to the Chargers in the playoffs.
The final point that kept grating at me was the accountability/need for a proper name point that Kravits kept railing on. Accountability has become a joke in reporting, and is part of the reason that journalism as an art is dying. Everyone is trying to break the next big story, and most don’t give a damn who gets hurt when their breaking news bit turns out to be wrong (See: Selena Roberts and the Duke Lacrosse team, any Sal Pal report or Mike Florio post).
Keep up the good work and thanks for giving us fans a place to get the information we need, the analysis we want, and for not sugar coating turds just so we come back. It’s definitely appreciated. Go Horse!
by indy15 on May 16, 2009 8:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kravitz is a real douche
i decided yesterday not to read indystar.com all together. ill find my local news not sports related somewhere else. im over it.
by MARVININDY on May 16, 2009 9:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd still recommend reading Phil B
maybe set a bookmark directly to his blog on the star’s site?
by shake n bake on May 16, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you still gotta read Phil B.
Here’s his direct address:
http://blogs.indystar.com/philb/
If it’s any added incentive, I’ll be commenting there regularly starting at training camp like I did last season. What, it’s not? You think I’m a moron? Oh…
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I would do nothing for a Klondike bar.
by Cassieper on May 17, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i really dont see the reason.
explain to me exactly why i should read ……..besides just the sake of reading it. and saying ive taken into account all aspects of someones opinion.
i cant honestly say ive ever read anything they have written about the Colts and thought…….that was an awesome article. i dont even think any of them could tell me what the middle linebacker’s responsibility is when the offense comes on the field with a “21” set. Do they know the difference between a 3 tech defensive lineman and a 5 tech? i honestly do not think so. If they do, they havent demonstrated that knowledge.
but i think some of you fellas on stampedeblue, really do.
its false logic to think that you have to experience something bad to grasp the concept of something good. so i refuse from here on, to be a part of that group. ill let those of you who choose to read thier “dated” opinions and perspective relay to me you’re opinion of its quality. i ’ve come to appreciate what a few of you think after reading enough of your posts, so do me a favor and let me know when they understand the chess game that is football.
If Bob and the others are real badasses at their job, Jim Lefko is holding them back and needs his job re-evaluated.
my last point. I dont really consider myself a “blogger” per-se. ive been reading stampede blue for the last couple of years along with a few random sites on SB nation. i have to echo what BBS stated on the radio. I am here because the local sports sources arent providing ME with what I want out of my Colts coverage. Sometimes when i read something on the indystar it seems like the mandated piece of Colts news that EVERYONE in the industry covers. i might as well turn on channel 6,8 11, or ESPN (given the thought that i wait long enough to hear it). the same news gets reported by every outlet, they dont deserve my attention at this point. otherwise they are just doing the same thing kravitz is bashing blogging sites for doing (reporting news found elsewhere on the net).
you dudes brought up a lot of guys the Colts should draft this year that otherwise i wouldnt have known. for that i appreciate your efforts. name another place i could have got that kind of information without having to dig all the stuff up myself and form opinions independent of anyone else’s perspective? i am too lazy to dig that stuff up myself, and I didnt see any of that on indystar’s average Colts articles.
Indystar sports info is good for mediocre information. i can get the same average stuff from my circle of friends who are casual Colts fans over a few beers hangin out in the garage.
if you cant tell. im over the indystar’s sports coverage from here on. and im rambling so ill drop it.
by MARVININDY on May 17, 2009 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phil B has access and actually communicates with his readers
he reads and responds to comments, he holds weekly on-line chats for readers to ask him questions.
He’s got the access of a journalist, but interacts with the readers like a blogger. He pulls good attributes from both camps.
by shake n bake on May 17, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
those are good reasons
youre probably right that i shouldnt dump Phil B into the same bucket as Krapitz
by MARVININDY on May 17, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems that Kravitz had only one, flawed argument
and it was about a blogger using his or her real name and accountability linked to it. He basically believes that if a person uses a nickname or pseudonym on a blog, then that person isn’t a reliable source.
In his rant, Kravitz used Bill Simmons as a example of a reliable source. That alone shows how ignorant, uninformed, and out of touch he really is. All of us know that Simmons got his start on ESPN by being what?!?!? A BLOGGER!!!! And did he use his government name when he started his blog? Um…..NO! He was originally known as The Boston Sports Guy. Simmons started his blog because he was/is a passionate sports fan like everyone on this blog and every other blog on the Internet. Simmons doesn’t have any special access to the athletes at sporting event, and his blog entries never feature any specific interviews with any important sports figure. Unlike SB Nation, Bill Simmons doesn’t offer his readers analytic articles. His blog is based on his point of view.
Clearly Bob Kravitz hates how the Internet is taking over the newspaper industry, but he doesn’t have a plausible reason for his hate. What a douchebag…
by KMR24 on May 16, 2009 11:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If anyone is interested, here are some of the comments Kravitz made to me via email.
On why he has disdain for the blogosphere:
I have absolutely no disdain for the blogosphere. A couple of years from now, I’m going to making my living in the blogosphere, if I’m lucky. My issue is with those who don’t see the problem with a lack of accountability. There’s nothing inherently wrong with citizen journalism — read up on I.F. Stone — but journalism is still about access and accountability. I would be fully in favor of giving all websites media passes, but it’s important they stand behind their work and are accountable to the readers and the people about whom they write. It’s a pretty simple proposition. If you used your names — and, by extension, got access — I’d be the first to throw you guys a parade. I have no issue with Oehser on the blogosphere. I have no issue with Leitch and those guys on the blogosphere. I’m not an old fogey you hates all that new-fangled technology. But I am old-fashioned enough to still believe that to truly report and comment properly, you still need access. And access isn’t going to come when you’re hiding behind childish pseudonyms.
His interpretation of access and accountability:
Access to me means having access to the people about whom you’re writing. If you’re writing about Howard Mudd, do you have access to him? And vice versa, if Mudd wants his day in court, does he have access to you? Or is he yelling at ghosts? Do you have access to players, coaches, etc? It’s very simple. Accountability is very straightforward, it seems to me. Who are you? Give me a real name. Give me a real face. Anonymity is fine is you’re writing stuff like The Talented Mr. Roto or one of those kinds of blogs, but if you’re going to be critical of people, whether its the team or the local media or whomever, you can’t hide behind the veil of anonymity. There’s no honor is hiding behind a wall and lobbing grenades. Blogging and certain websites provide a fantastic alternative to mainstream media, and the more voices there are, the better for all of us. But you can’t be taken seriously until you have access and are accountable for the things you say and write.
by KingRichard on May 16, 2009 11:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Even if I used my real name...
I couldn’t get access.
So what motivation do I have to use it?
BBS crushed that argument by showing he gets access with his name from other places, but not from the Colts. Even a former NFL GM couldn’t get access as a blogger. The rest of us have no prayer, no matter what name we use.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on May 17, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re quite right. I think eventually though the barrier that exists will be torn down in a eerily similar fashion to the Berlin Wall. Except in a completely different way, and on the internet.
by KingRichard on May 17, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
amen on the last comment.
the medias perceived accountibility is a joke. everybody and their dog knows they write their espn or cbssportsline OR indystar articles with one thing in mind and its hardly the truth or accountibility. its to be the first out and to act like they have just uncovered a time bomb of facts. NOT
did any of those accountable media writers have the scoop on peyton and what really happened when they broke that story out? NO
did any of those accountable media writers have the scoop on marvin and the ninja like hands story when they broke that baloney? NO
they remind of the swine flu epidemic full blown crap…oh how interesting for an epedemic it just suddenly disappeared from CNN and the others when people like us started questioning the ACCOUNTIBLITY of it all. oh guess what…its just a bit worse than the average flu and they lied. they rode the train of exaggeration but THEY GOT what they strived for…accountability or not… A BIG STORY
by kinnickcolt on May 17, 2009 8:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My good friend worked for ESPN...
Three years ago and he explained to me that they would have DAILY meetings all about how they could “push” Terrel Owens stories. Sad… very sad.
by MasterRWayne on May 17, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is so hung up on the damn name. who gives a shit what your name is? Sam Clemons wrote some great books under the name Mark Twain. Does that mean his work doesn’t have merit or credibility. How in the hell do we even know if his real name is Bob Kravitz?……it’s a stupid argument that has me pissed off I’m even thinking about it
by danorocks17 on May 17, 2009 10:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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