I put no blame on the running backs whatsoever, because if they don’t have anywhere to go, it’s not their fault. It’s something we definitely need to fine-tune and get working a lot better, because it just opens up the rest of the offense."
Colts RT Ryan Diem, explaining why the Colts ground game was so bad in 2008.
4 months ago
BigBlueShoe
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Few things here...
1. Diem is saying what we, as a teamate, should be saying.
2. It doesn’t explain why Rhodes (who was 30 years old and an UFA) ran better than Addai last year.
3. Addai was hurt last year, he was hurt the year before that and, hopefully, he is still not hurt and he is healthy.
4. The Colts were NOT willing to bet on that. That is why they drafted Brown.
5. If Addai comes back healthy that is great. It gives us a 1-2 punch. If not then we have Brown, Hart and Ball. Our bases are covered.
by MasterRWayne on Jun 17, 2009 3:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Addai
Addai has good skills. He is great in open space, can catch passes reasonably well, and doesn’t fumble all the time. He is a good blocker.
BUT he gets injured too much. Hopefully his little itty bitty injuries that seem to keep him out of either the rest of the current game or the next game or two will stop this year with Brown there.
I have to give Addai the benefit of the doubt though and assume that Dungy just wanted to be cautious. Remember the 07 Chargers playoff game? Addai went out with some phantom injury and KK came in and promptly tipped Peyton’s pass on the goal line for the INT. What do you know, Addai was right back in the game the next series….good one.
"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me."
by AceOfSpades on Jun 17, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why it was smarter to draft a RB in round 1 then it was a WR or a DT. Better value, bigger need and better early productivity because RB’s can produce early on whereas DT’s and especially WR’s take time to develop.
by MasterRWayne on Jun 17, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why
would you draft a RB and think it’ll make the running game better when the problem was o-line?
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
by TheTealDeal on Jun 17, 2009 3:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If you want to run a two back system
and one of your backs is old and a free agent?
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 17, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
You drafted 3 OL linemen in the draft the year before, and re-signed your center..
by yellowsnow on Jun 17, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because the o-line wasn’t the sole problem, obviously.
Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.
by KingRichard on Jun 17, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
o yes.....Obviously
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
by TheTealDeal on Jun 18, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Under what standard...
Did Rhodes run better than Addai? What do you have to back that claim up? Their numbers were basically the same, and Addai’s were slanted by two terrible games:
Minnesota (with out three starting o linemen)
and New England (when the team brought him back a week early from injury and he was clearly not ready to go). In his other 10 games, he averaged 4 yards a carry.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jun 17, 2009 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Under the standard the Rhodes’ stats were on par (actually better my a small margin) with his stats in 2006, when the o-line was “fine.” I’ve already mentioned this point 235982398235 times, but yet everyone dismisses it.
Fact is, Rhodes was consistent, Addai was up and dowm (mostly the latter). Injures played a huge role, and so did the line to some respect.
Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.
by KingRichard on Jun 17, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh, down that is
Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.
by KingRichard on Jun 17, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
everyone dismisses it for a reason
Addai ran for 4.8 yards per carry behind that line. So if Dom’s non-change in YPC says that the line is just as good, the same logic can say Addai’s drop in yards says the line isn’t.
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 17, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s not the point. I’m not saying the LINE is just as good, I’m saying that regardless OF THE LINE Dom was able to produce up to snuff. Clearly, with a mediocre o-line, Addai’s stats would be affected, but not THAT much. This is where you have to factor in injuries and all that jazz too, but it’s not like it’s helping Addai’s case when you use that to support him. It just opens up another can of worms about the fact that he is soft.
Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.
by KingRichard on Jun 17, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dom declined too
In 2006, Dom was the #1 back and Addai the #2. When Dom was switched to being the #2 back in the playoffs he averaged 4.9 YPC.
Dom was the #2 back in 2008 (at least in 11 games). In those games, he averaged 3.73 YPC. I’d say Dom declined as the #2 back dramatically over 2006.
In games where both backs had at least 5 carries, Addai averaged 3.9 YPC. Dom averaged 3.6 YPC.
Again, Addai out performed Dom.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jun 17, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In 2006, Dom was the #1 back and Addai the #2. When Dom was switched to being the #2 back in the playoffs he averaged 4.9 YPC.
lol No, no he wasn’t. He was the starter, not the #1 back. No one is denying the fact that Dom was a beast in the playoffs and the Super Bowl. Sadly for your argument, we’re not talking about the playoffs or specific games, we’re talking about production over the course of an entire season.
Dom was the #2 back in 2008 (at least in 11 games). In those games, he averaged 3.73 YPC. I’d say Dom declined as the #2 back dramatically over 2006.
So sad. Talk about grasping at straws. You are using these labels of #1 and #2 back as if they mean anything. Addai is, has, and will be the feature back until unseated (which will happen this year by Donald Brown, I guaruntee it).
Dom’s 2006 stats are as follows: 187 carries, 641 yards, 3.4 ypc, 5 tds, 36 receptions, 251 yards, 7.0 ypc 0 tds
Dom’s 2008 stats are as follows: 152 carries (less than 2006), 538 yards, 3.5 ypc, 6 tds, 45 receptions, 302 yards, 6.7 ypc, 3 tds
Now, explain to me where you get the idea that Dom “declined”, because I sure don’t see it. If anything, Dom produced more while Addai sucked big time.
In games where both backs had at least 5 carries, Addai averaged 3.9 YPC. Dom averaged 3.6 YPC.
Again, Addai out performed Dom.
WOW, he totally blew him out of the water huh? I guess it doesn’t matter that Addai is 4 years younger and a FIRST ROUND PICK. Nah, not at all.
Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.
by KingRichard on Jun 17, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the bold stuff is supposed to show areas in which he IMPROVED over his 2006 stats
Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.
by KingRichard on Jun 17, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the labels do matter...
because they describe at what points during the game the two players played. In 2006, it seemed there was an advantage to playing in the second half. Rhodes went from a first half back (more difficult) to being a second half back (easier) in 08, but put up the same rushing numbers. Perhaps those are the terms I should have used instead of #1 and #2. The point is during what portion of the game the two players played.
Most of Dom’s improvement came in the passing game, which is a function of throwing to the back to replace the non-existent run game. They threw to Dom a lot more in 08 because the line was so much worse. It’s only natural that Dom would have had better receiving stats. Addai actually improved in Rec TDs and YPR as well, even though he played much less in 08 because of injuries.
It doesn’t matter that Addai is “four years younger and a first round pick”. It matters who played better. In games where both players saw significant action, Addai played better than Dom. You can’t get away from that. Addai was hurt. That more than makes up for the fact that he was younger than Rhodes.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jun 17, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really think it’s necessary to break down when and where Addai and Rhodes played? Because I don’t. I don’t see any else using this as an argument as to why AP, LT, or any of the other feature backs in the league failed to produce. If you have to dig deeper than then stats and Addai’s lack of playing time due to injury just to prove that Addai may or may not have been slightly better than Dom, your argument is moot imo. Ironically, that’s the type of arguing most Addai apologists have rely on. Keep coming up with stuff, no matter how irrelevant or useless it is just to sustain your argument.
Yes, I agree (as evidenced from the stat line) that most of Dom’s improvement came from the passing game, but how do you explain his consistent production in the run game? That’s the point I’m making.
Contrary to what you believe, it does matter that Addai is younger than Dom and is a first round pick. The Colts have a lot of time, money, and a very early draft pick on a guy who is doing nothing but declining year after year. While Dom, an UDFA, who was playing for the vet min last year, out produced our much higher paid, first round draft pick. That’s unacceptable.
Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.
by KingRichard on Jun 17, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are asking for an explanation of some stats
then say that the argument is moot because it goes beyond the stats?
lol
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 17, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DZ posted an explanation of Dom's production not changing
that is logical and has some support both intuitively (running fresh vs a tired D is easier) and from the stats (flipped roles in the playoffs equaled flipped levels of efficiency), you just said the that argument wasn’t good in your opinion and that you’d never seen it before so it must not be right.
Then you pretended like DZ didn’t answer your claim at all.
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 17, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here are the numbers
Analyze to fit your argument as you see fit (from Yahoo):
2006:
Rhodes 1st Half: 93 Carries, 3.1 YPC
Rhodes 2nd Half: 94 Carries, 3.7 YPC
Addai 1st Half: 107 Carries, 4.3 YPC
Addai 2nd Half: 119 Carries, 5.2 YPC
2008:
Rhodes 1st Half: 65 Carries, 4.0 YPC
Rhodes 2nd Half: 87 Carries, 3.2 YPC
Addai 1st Half: 98 Carries, 3.1 YPC
Addai 2nd Half: 57 Carries, 4.2 YPC
Conclusions:
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
by mgrex03 on Jun 17, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea what to make of those...
I’m surprised there was such an even first/second half split between the two backs in 06. That’s not how I remembered it. It does show that the first/second half thing matters, but not that they split carries that way.
The first/second half thing was as I described in 08, with Addai heavier in the first and Rhodes in the second (like the 06 playoffs). What it doesn’t explain is why Dom was so much worse in second half than the first. That makes no sense.
It might come down to extreme splits in competition. When they played in the same game, Addai rushed better than Dom. Dom’s first half success might just be due to a few games against weaker teams when Addai didn’t play at all. By himself, Dom faced 4 of 12 worst run Ds, and Baltimore, but with a huge lead. It could be that his first half success was due to that.
Crap, this looks like I’ll have to do a game by game break down to sort all this out.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jun 17, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh by the way
I’m still waiting for your piece mocking me for my Marshal Faulk comparison. Good luck with that.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jun 17, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will say it...
Your Marshall Faulk comparision blew serious chunks mostly for the fact that Faulk was run out of Indianapolis and was replaced by a better and healthier back in Edge James. That being said Addai is no where near the same talent level as Faulk and Addai has been hurt more than Faulk ever was with the exception of Faulk’s final two years. Not good news for Addai.
by MasterRWayne on Jun 17, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have no idea what you are talking about
1. Faulk was not “run out of Indianapolis”. He was traded after a salary dispute.
2. Edge was neither healthier nor better than Faulk. Faulk put up three of the greatest seasons in history from 1999-2001. He was first team all pro all three years. He was also completely healthy from 1997 through 1999. He did miss a couple of games in 2000 and 2001, but still won an MVP award and offensive player of the year.
3. You don’t remember 1995 when Faulk missed the entire playoffs with injuries? Or 1996 when he missed three games and was basically stagnant?
4. Addai Year One: 4.8 YPC, 8 total TDs, 1081 yards
Faulk year one: 4.1 YPC, 12 TDs, 1282 as the feature back.
Addai Year two: 4.1 YPC 13 TDs, 1072 yards
Faulk year two: 3.7 YPC, 14 TD, 1078 yards
Addai year Three: 3.5 YPC, 7 TD, 544 yards
Faulk Year Three: 3.0, 7 TD, 587 Yards
People were super down on Faulk after his third season. They were stupid people who didn’t understand that a player can’t play the same when hurt. They called him fragile, injury prone and a dancer. They now look like fools.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jun 17, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting you should bring up the Faulk comparison, because Addai’s career in Indy is going to end the same way Faulk’s did. There’s no way Addai is going to be re-signed after his rookie contract is up, meaning he’ll no longer be a Colt after his 5th season. Coincidence?
Aside from that, comparing Addai to Faulk is ridiculous. Faulk was much more highly touted and clearly more talented than Addai coming out of college.
Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.
by KingRichard on Jun 17, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So?
What do the numbers tell you?
You people need to stop living in a fantasy world where it matters where a guy is drafted or how highly he was touted.
Do I think Addai is as good as Faulk? Probably not. I do know he was the best player on the field in November of ‘07 and didn’t just forget to play football in the mean time. I also know his numbers are virtually identical to Faulk’s. I also know that their circumstances were eerily similar as well.
I just happen to be old enough to remember things that happened before 2003. It teaches you to not say crazy stuff just because a talented player gets a little dinged up.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jun 17, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I shouldn’t even waste my time saying this because it’s obvious that no matter what I say you are just going to disagree with and come up with yet another weak attempt to prove me wrong.
So it’s ok for you to sit there and compare Addai to one of the best running backs of all time, who played in a different era, because their first 3 season are kind of similar? Oh and by the way, if you actually look at the stats closer instead of just glancing at them, it’s quite obvious that Faulk was pumping out better numbers. But I’m sure that doesn’t matter.
But yet, if I want to sit here and say that it makes sense that Marshall Faulk went on the lead a very good career because he was a much better prospect out of college BECAUSE THAT IS A FACT, that’s not ok and I live in a fantasy world? Get real. That stuff does matter, and if you actually read the scouting reports and Addai’s history at LSU you’d realize that his injury problems and lack of production without a sidekick there to bail him out IS NO FREAKING SURPRISE!
Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.
by KingRichard on Jun 18, 2009 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh...
If you think how a guy is perceived coming out of college matters in the NFL much past week 1 of his rookie season, you are insane. It only matters what you produce on the field. Ask any one. Once the hits start flying, draft position and rep go out the window. Ask Ricky Williams and Edge James about it. You have no real argument, so you say, “we know Faulk is better because he was better in college”. Really? So everyone who was good in college is good in the pros? That’s silly, and you know it.
Addai and Faulk produced the same rushing numbers. Faulk had more catches because those Colts teams didn’t have as many WR weapons. They are similar backs. Faulk was frighteningly good, and Addai has had moments that were similar. Faulk played IN THIS ERA. This wasn’t 30 years ago. The point is that injuries and a deteriorating line made even a great like Faulk look ordinary. How stupid was it to call him ‘fragil’ or ‘washed up’ or a bust after his 1996 season? All it took was getting healthy to show what he really was.
You are wrong about this, and in about 7 months, everyone will be clowning you. History is on my side, kid.
Your problem is that you aren’t intellectually curious. I proposed a theory…you rejected it because “you had never heard of it before” which is hilarious.
Someone else bailed you out by looking up actual stats which were weird as crap and didn’t really support either position. You didn’t seem to even care about them. You certainly didn’t offer any interpretation of them, nor did you imply you were going to.
I’m still waiting for your ‘big post’ about how I’m wrong about the Faulk comparison. Still waiting…
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jun 18, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DZ...
I respect King Richard for having an opinion and sticking to it but I too am familiar with the Faulk era and the eerie similarities between the two in the first three years. If you read my bio here you will see that I was very active in following the team, including in training camp, when I was young. To me, all the comments about Addai being done are premature. This is the year for him to prove himself. Funny enough, Faulk entered the same year in the exact same position.
Now, if the offensive line improves, and all signs indicate that it should be much better than last year. If Addai is healthy, and at this point he’ll have little reason to not be healthy. Addai’s performance in 2009 will make or break his career, as I discussed in a post about players with something to prove. Could he returns to his 2006/early 2007 form? Sure, he could. Will he? Who knows. Until I see him falter this year, while healthy, I’ll remain cautiously optimistic.
King Richard tends to be more polarizing. He makes an assessment or judgment and touts it as fact, as it being the “way it is” and that is okay. It takes guts to put yourself out there. Do I think he’ll probably be wrong? Cautiously, yes I do. We’ll just have to see.
by bamock on Jun 19, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've figured out the problem Dom numbers
Part of the problem with the splits is that they created small sample sizes. Dom had 1 carry for 38 yards Vs. Baltimore. On all other 1st half carries in 2008, he averaged 3.4 YPC. That one play bumped him to nearly 4 YPC. Dom wasn’t really dramatically better in the first half than the second. He just had one good play in limited action.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jun 19, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's just it....
I don’t want to be a part of this argument, but the running woes for the Colts can be attributed to a lack of big play over the past 2+ seasons. Other than that 38 yarder, I can’t remember the last BIG running play that went more than 10-15 yards out of either Dom OR Addai. If they even had some of those, the averages would be much higher and we might not be having this argument.
I hope Brown and Addai can feed off each other and bring a big play impact to this team which has been lacking.
"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me."
by AceOfSpades on Jun 20, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So much for that argument huh? haha
Oh well, let’s just end on peaceful terms here and agree to disagree.
I just made a post on my site about this issue, everyone is free to check it out if you want.
Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.
by KingRichard on Jun 17, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the split is still there it's just not as big in 2006
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 17, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
IMO, he was better because we could trust him to be on the field. Also, he made more big plays that stand out in my head (ex: game winner at Pittsburgh).
We knew what we were getting out of Rhodes. A tough, shoot the hole runner that is going to get a consistent 3 or as many as 10-15 yards at times. He didn’t give us any BS, just did his job. And he was on the field when we needed him and not rubbing his shoulder or his head.
"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me."
by AceOfSpades on Jun 17, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Addai v. the O-Line
Oh NOES… here we go again!!
How can you not love a team that does this?
by LovinBlue on Jun 17, 2009 4:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not again
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
by BigBlueShoe on Jun 17, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on..
Can’t we, somehow, just blame our DTs for our horrendous run game, and be done with it?
by hahasound on Jun 17, 2009 4:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We sure can
As you recall, Darrel effing Reid was our fullback. DARREL EFFING REID
by slash196 on Jun 17, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just fail to see the argument of Shake and Zombie
I mean Addai ran BAD last year as in like really bad. He was probably the single worst starting running back last year. Yes some of that was the O-lines fault but much of it was Addai’s fault. You combine that with the fact that Addai can’t stay healthy and the Colts spent a 1st Round pick on Donald Brown and its pretty clear that the Colts do not 100% trust Addai.
Bottom line… the Colts drafted Brown. They do NOT trust Addai.
by MasterRWayne on Jun 17, 2009 9:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The single worst running back?
In what? The league? The team? The stats don’t back that up. Conventional stats say Dom and Joe ran exactly the same. FO stats say Joe ran better than Dom. You are just making stuff up. You have no evidence. In fact, according to FO stats, Addai was basically an average back last year. Not a horrible one. Just an average one. Not bad for a guy playing hurt and behind one of the worst lines in football.
Addai can’t stay healthy? He had a couple of little dings. It happens. Lots of players miss time with injuries. Why is he the only one who gets vilified for it? The whole effing team was hurt last year.
What I saw last year was a line that couldn’t block AT ALL on the right side. The Colts had the worst line in football last year, and only Manning kept anyone from noticing.
As for why they drafted Don Brown, I love Addai, and I predicted them to draft a RB because you can’t run a 2 back set with 1 running back. The Colts want to run the 2006 offense. 2 back rotation, two TE. That’s winning football. They don’t need a 3rd WR or a feature back. The won a Super Bowl the other way.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jun 18, 2009 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't see the back the Bengals started the season with in the starting lineup
2.6 YPC with 5 fumbles over 6 games before they benched him.
There are many more backs that were worse than Addai by medium to small amounts, but Perry was unquestionably the worst starting runningback in the league this year.
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 18, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny.
Someone posts a quote by RT Ryan Diem about their need to get better, and the Addai haters come charging out of the gate defensively and bashing Addai. Perhaps their insecurity here is tied to their opposite reaction of gloating like schmucks when Brown was drafted first. Which was a great draft choice, by the way, and I am for Addai.
Bottom line, this was about an actual Colts player who admitted what we all (well, mostly) saw last season, which was a line (particularly the right side) that couldn’t block. Diem’s comments here were dead on, and I applaud him for them.
This Colts team will be great this season, IMO. I have never been so excited entering the new season. Please, no freak injuries.
by coltsfanawalt on Jun 18, 2009 6:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
@deshawn
If you think how a guy is perceived coming out of college matters in the NFL much past week 1 of his rookie season, you are insane. It only matters what you produce on the field. Ask any one. Once the hits start flying, draft position and rep go out the window. Ask Ricky Williams and Edge James about it. You have no real argument, so you say, "we know Faulk is better because he was better in college". Really? So everyone who was good in college is good in the pros? That’s silly, and you know it.
Why shouldn’t it matter? You act like college football is completely different from the NFL. They still have to put the pads on and play ball.
The trends and problems surrounding Addai in college have come to fruition, which is my point. He had the injury bug even back then. Toss in the fact that Addai never proved to be able to handle the load himself (meaning more than 200 carries), and it boggles my mind why the Colts pushed him to play in such a role. All this proves is that the Colts mismanaged Addai’s role in the offense, thus proving that the Colts, specifically Polian, are (gasp) fallible.
To make up for their mistake, the Colts FO is basically campaigning that they want to “return to the two back system that was so effective in 2006.” Well duh, they have no choice! Addai has proven he can’t handle the load himself, what else are they going to do? But what I don’t understand is if they wanted a tandem back to pair up with Addai, why would they pick Donald Brown? Brown has shown throughout his career at UConn that he excels as the feature back. If all the Colts wanted was someone to take some of the heat off of Addai, why spend a first round pick on someone like Donald Brown? It doesn’t make any sense, unless they need someone who can handle the load and will be able to do so once Addai’s contract is up, and he inevitably departs from the Colts.
I’ve never once denied the fact that Addai is a very talented football player. In some cases, he’s downright deadly. But the fact of the matter is, he just isn’t built to carry the load, and people seriously need to stop putting him on some pedestal and judge him for what he is: a very good tandem back. There’s nothing wrong with having someone like Addai on your team.
Addai and Faulk produced the same rushing numbers. Faulk had more catches because those Colts teams didn’t have as many WR weapons. They are similar backs. Faulk was frighteningly good, and Addai has had moments that were similar. Faulk played IN THIS ERA. This wasn’t 30 years ago. The point is that injuries and a deteriorating line made even a great like Faulk look ordinary. How stupid was it to call him ‘fragil’ or ‘washed up’ or a bust after his 1996 season? All it took was getting healthy to show what he really was.
You are continuously missing my point here. I’ll break this down as best as I can.
Faulk and Addai are not similar backs. Faulk is, was, and forever will be better at every nuance pertaining to the running back position than Addai. Their stats are just merely a coincidence.
What I meant by the “era” comment was, Faulk played in a time when there were such things as #1 or feature backs, which is clearly what he was. An era has nothing to do with specific years, more so with a career and stylistic difference of the game itself. The era in which Faulk played was completely different than the era in which Addai is currently playing in. I’m sure you know this, but Faulk was basically retired by the time Addai come into the NFL, thus they played in different eras.
Obviously injuries will hinder a player’s production, but the point I’m trying to make here is if this is going to be a reoccurring problem throughout Addai’s career, then he and the Colts are in trouble. This is where all of my pessimism lies. I’m not disagreeing with your assessment that Faulk was hindered by injuries and poor line play, but he was eventually able to get over the hump and pumped out some fantastic years. The major difference here is, Faulk didn’t have a history of injury problems like Addai does. Therefore, the chances of Addai being able to recover and stay healthy for an extended period of time like in 2006 is going to be very difficult to achieve and far from guarunteed, and that is scary.
Do I hope he gets healthy? Hell yes. Do I hope he has a great two years? Hell yes. Do I think it’s actually going to happen? No freakin clue.
You are wrong about this, and in about 7 months, everyone will be clowning you. History is on my side, kid.
I hope am I proven wrong in 7 months, I’m not denying that. I hope people do clown me. There has never been one thing I wanted to be more wrong about in my entire life.
As for your “kid” remark, you can kiss my ass if you think you are going to talk down to me like that.
Your problem is that you aren’t intellectually curious. I proposed a theory…you rejected it because "you had never heard of it before" which is hilarious.
lol at you claiming I’m not intellectually curious. Like you know me or something right?
I rejected your theory because it was stupid, as proved wrong by mgrex’s stats.
Someone else bailed you out by looking up actual stats which were weird as crap and didn’t really support either position. You didn’t seem to even care about them. You certainly didn’t offer any interpretation of them, nor did you imply you were going to.
I didn’t need bailing out. You are the one who made the claim in which you failed to actually support with any factual evidence. You were proven wrong and I laughed at you because I knew from the start that your claims were really weak. It was a stupid argument and I was proven right. Don’t get mad at me, get mad at mgrex for spending the time to actually prove you wrong.
Of course I didn’t offer any interpretation, why would I? I’m not going to waste my time trying to refute something as ridiculous as what you were claiming.
I’m still waiting for your ‘big post’ about how I’m wrong about the Faulk comparison. Still waiting…
You’re going to be waiting a while because I never said I was going to write an article about the Faulk comparison.
Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.
by KingRichard on Jun 20, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Faulk and Addai are not similar backs. Faulk is, was, and forever will be better at every nuance pertaining to the running back position than Addai. Their stats are just merely a coincidence.
Addai and Dom are not similar backs, Addai is, was and forver will be better at every nuance pertaining to the running back position than Dom. Their stats are just merely a coincidence.
The era in which Faulk played was completely different than the era in which Addai is currently playing in. I’m sure you know this, but Faulk was basically retired by the time Addai come into the NFL, thus they played in different eras.
So we can’t compare Peyton Manning’s 1999 stats to his 2008 stats because they played in different eras?
I rejected your theory because it was stupid, as proved wrong by mgrex’s stats.
The effect was there, it just wasn’t as large as DZ said he expected, and he pointed out the other big reason being that the longest run of 2008 was a single Dom carry in the first half. The second half ypcs were bigger on the whole, and the usage of the backs moved in the direction that DZ said. Addai moved to being more of a 1st half back, while Dom moved to a second half role. The only difference was that they moved from a pretty even split instead of the reversed split that DZ expected. The 1st half/2nd half effect was there, Addai moved to a harder role, while Dom’s got easier, just like DZ said to explain the change in stats.
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 20, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How did I prove him wrong?
Here’s what deshawn said:
In 2006, it seemed there was an advantage to playing in the second half.
Which was, in fact, true. I proved him right on that.
He then said this:
Rhodes went from a first half back (more difficult) to being a second half back (easier) in 08, but put up the same rushing numbers.
Rhodes 1st/2nd % in 2006: 50-50
Rhodes 1st/2nd % in 2008: 43-57
He had more 1st half carries in ’06 than he did in ’08. And Rhodes was “bad” in the 2nd half of games in 2008, and not much better in the first, if you take out the 1 long run.
And Addai’s 2nd half YPC in 2008, when he was “AWFUL”, were better than any of Rhodes’ YPC for a half.
NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft
by mgrex03 on Jun 20, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Addai and Dom are not similar backs, Addai is, was and forver will be better at every nuance pertaining to the running back position than Dom. Their stats are just merely a coincidence.
So we can’t compare Peyton Manning’s 1999 stats to his 2008 stats because they played in different eras?
lmao
Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.
by KingRichard on Jun 20, 2009 1:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
care to explain what you see wrong
or does disagreeing on anything with you make someone factually incorrect?
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 20, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t believe you seriously need me to point out how your first comment is completely out of context, and your second point makes absolutely no sense. Please, elaborate on those points so I actually understand what your point is.
Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.
by KingRichard on Jun 20, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The first point is pointing out that you are countering objective evidence with “because I said so”. What reason do you have for saying Faulk is better than Addai other than Faulk’s future (which isn’t valid because you don’t know Addai’s) and that he was drafted higher (which is even more true for my Addai-Dom comparison). If you can call 3 seasons of stats lining up a coincidence then it’s just as if not more valid to call one season of similar stats, which is what your big Addai-indicting question is based on, a coincidence. You can’t pick and choose which stats are valid and which aren’t just by whether they support you are not.
The second is pointing out that they didn’t play all that far apart at all. If 12 years apart is too far to make a valid comparision because they are in different eras then we can’t even compare some players to themselves, because they started in one era and played into another.
and do you see why DZ’s point about the 1st/2nd half splits wasn’t proven wrong? That one of his assumptions from memory was, reducing the effect, but that the effect is still clearly there?
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 20, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The first point is pointing out that you are countering objective evidence with "because I said so".
What the hell are you even talking about here? What objective evidence? The point that you quoted that was referring to what DZ said was his opinion, not fact.
What reason do you have for saying Faulk is better than Addai other than Faulk’s future
What reason do you have for saying Faulk wasn’t better? This is the type of crap that people make fun of you for. You have no point, you are just arguing to argue. But since you asked such a stupid question, let me point out to you where DZ and I are in agreement:
Faulk was frighteningly good, and Addai has had moments that were similar.
And just to make sure you understand what he’s saying, his comment implies that Faulk was indeed better than Addai. Everyone knows this. The stats prove it, the video proves it.
If you can call 3 seasons of stats lining up a coincidence then it’s just as if not more valid to call one season of similar stats, which is what your big Addai-indicting question is based on, a coincidence. You can’t pick and choose which stats are valid and which aren’t just by whether they support you are not.
Man, you’re really all over the board here, pulling stuff from completely different arguments and conversations to comprise an argument.
Faulk’s and Addai’s rushing stats lining up like that are a coincidence. They wouldn’t be a coincidence if they both played for identical teams. No one on those teams that Faulk played for in his first three years is still currently a Colts player. None of the coaches, thecoaching staff, the FO are with the Colts now. And of course, the offensive scheme is completely different as well. Therefore, trying to make some type of assumption based off of two players who played in two different eras and on two different teams is not only ridiculous, it’s laughable.
I don’t even understand how or why you thought using the Rhodes and Addai argument even remotely made sense in the context of comparing Faulk and Addai. lol
The second is pointing out that they didn’t play all that far apart at all. If 12 years apart is too far to make a valid comparision because they are in different eras then we can’t even compare some players to themselves, because they started in one era and played into another.
haha Wow. You really don’t think that much could have changed in 12 years that would make the comparison of Addai and Faulk moot? Really?
How about the aforementioned reasons I listed above? Do those not factor into this? Because they should. And in saying that, your example of not being able to compare young Peyton to old Peyton is just…haha, just retarded.
Peyton has played in the same exact offensive scheme, with the same coaches, HIS-ENTIRE-CAREER. The only thing that has changed has been the players within that offense. Now, explain to everyone why we can’t compare young Peyton to old Peyton again?
Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.
by KingRichard on Jun 20, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell are you even talking about here? What objective evidence?
The objective fact that Addai and Faulk’s first 3 seasons of rushing production line up, which you are countering with just opinion.
What reason do you have for saying Faulk wasn’t better?
Their stats through the first 3 seasons were very similar. It’s unlikely Addai can follow the HOF path that Faulk did after those 3 years, but the point is that a back that had 3 years like Addai has can’t be written off yet because we’ve seen a guy have a HOF career after starting out like that.
This is the type of crap that people make fun of you for. You have no point, you are just arguing to argue.
I have a point, I’ve stated my point over and over, you just don’t agree with me and since you treat your opinions as interchangeable with facts you call my arguments pointless and stupid.
Man, you’re really all over the board here, pulling stuff from completely different arguments and conversations to comprise an argument.
Because you aren’t being consistent. You are picking and choosing which stats are valid and when to support your argument that Addai sucks.
Faulk’s and Addai’s rushing stats lining up like that are a coincidence. They wouldn’t be a coincidence if they both played for identical teams. No one on those teams that Faulk played for in his first three years is still currently a Colts player. None of the coaches, thecoaching staff, the FO are with the Colts now. And of course, the offensive scheme is completely different as well. Therefore, trying to make some type of assumption based off of two players who played in two different eras and on two different teams is not only ridiculous, it’s laughable.
None of those points are about different eras, which was your argument. Those are differences in scheme and supporting cast. If you can’t compare players in different schemes and with different players around them you can’t compare players at all.
All your points to support your era argument don’t, they are a different point about scheme and teammates. All you say on that point is
haha Wow. You really don’t think that much could have changed in 12 years that would make the comparison of Addai and Faulk moot? Really?
I know there have been changes. I don’t think enough has changed to make the comparison moot. If you want to actually gives some changes and how they would skew the stats, with data for how they have. Then go ahead and put it out there and prove me wrong.
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 20, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You use that word a lot...
I’m not sure you know what coincidence means.
Addai and Faulk play the same position.
They played in the same stadium.
They even had a WR in common.
They were similar style RBs.
Both were considered dual threat pass catchers
Both were first round picks
Both had outstanding rookie years
Both battled injuries in their 2nd and 3rd seasons
Both had injured offensive lines.
They had all those things in common.
They then posted eerily similar numbers.
That’s not a coincidence.
A coincidence would be saying that Faulk is from New Orleans and Addai played at LSU and they were both drafted by the Colts.
Showing they have similar numbers given all their other commonalities…that’s not coincidence.
The point of the comparison is that the same things that made Addai look bad made Faulk look worse. So maybe, everyone should take a deep breath and realize that Addai’s performance might not have been as bad as they thought, and that his future might still be a lot brighter than they think.
My first/half second half theory was not proved wrong by the stats. You never even bothered to comment on the stats. You seemed disinterested in them. You were not “proven right”. My argument was that Dom’s performance declined because he actually had an ‘easier load’ in 2008 than in 2006. He should have posted BETTER numbers in 2008 than in 2006 because his % of 2nd half carries increased (which it did).
Instead, his numbers were skewed by 1 big run against Baltimore making his first half #s look much better than they really were. In fact, that 1 carry is what helped Dom match his 2006 YPC.
Just because Dom had one big run against a beat down Ravens team, already down 20 points doesn’t invalidate my argument. Dom was not as good in 2008 as he was in 2006.
You’re wrong, and the numbers show it. You just never took the time to study them.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jun 20, 2009 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
DZ, don't you know that if you admit being wrong on any point, even on a technicality
even if your argument stands without it, you are totally and forever wrong about everything?
Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake
by shake n bake on Jun 20, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, thanks. Now I understand.
By the way, I’m still researching the numbers. Going back to game logs and what not to find the story out behind them. I think it will yield some interesting results.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jun 20, 2009 7:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Figured it out.
Now it makes sense. The extreme splits I was referring to did hold up in the playoffs, just not the regular season.
1. Dom had 13 carries first half carries in the playoffs in 2006 (only 2 in the first quarter of games). He averaged 3.8 YPC.
2. Dom had 61 second half carries in the 06 playoffs. He averaged 4.9 YPC in the second half
This matters because during the ’06 regular season Dom had MORE 1st quarter carries than in any other quarter. He posted only a 3.3 YPC average in the first quarter. When the playoffs hit, the Colts stopped using him at all in the first quarter, and only sparingly in the second. By the time the third quarter rolled around, he busted out with big gains.
Addai on the other hand, did see a role reversal. In the regular season, he had fewer first quarter carries than any quarter. He also posted his lowest YPC in the first. It was harder to run in the first Q than the later Qs (as the stats showed).
So, now flash forward to 2008. Joe is running early, Dom is running late. We would expect Joe’s numbers to drop, and Dom’s to rise (per the ‘06 playoffs). Joe’s dropped more than we would expect. KR and company claim it’s because he played poorly, and they compare him to Dom. But Dom’s numbers SHOULD have improved.
Dom should have been MUCH better in 08 than in 06. He wasn’t. He was exactly the same. In fact, he had one long run which bumped his YPC up to 3.5 Without it, he drops below his 2006 performance.
So, Joe was worse. Dom was worse. The reason:
THE LINE WAS TERRIBLE.
See, KR…numbers are fun. You just have to do a little leg work, pile through all the game play by plays and get the data that other people can’t just hand to you.
Sorry bud. I was right. Very right.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jun 20, 2009 7:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
whoops
Misrepresented Dom’s 2nd half stats…
he actually had 48 carries for 285 yards in the second half of games in the 06 playoffs…5.93 YPC…
Even better for my point.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jun 20, 2009 7:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Simple Breakdown
Instead of arguing rushing stats between Dom and Addai, since Dom isn’t even on the team anymore, why don’t you guys talk about things that are going to be relevant about this season?? Like…
1. We can all agree that Addai has the potential to succeed and has shown the ability to make plays in the past.
2. We can all agree that Addai has a tendency to get injured and miss playing time within a game or even miss game(s) at a time.
3. If Donald Brown can come in and split carries or take a 60/40 share of the load, and be effective at the same time, it will help Addai stay healthy (hopefully) and continue to succeed.
And….
4. If Addai’s numbers continue to decline, OR if he misses significant time due to injuries, it is fair to assume that Addai may be out the door after this season. The Colts have shown that they are not afraid to part with RBs in the past and the drafting of Brown shows that they are still trying to improve the RB position as a whole.
But….
If Addai plays well this year, and Brown plays well this year, and the team makes a strong playoff run or even goes to or wins the Super Bowl, we can all have a beer and laugh about this argument and all the time we wasted copying each others quotes just to paste them into a new comment that largely repeats the past 5 comments about the same argument but uses a couple different words.
"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me."
by AceOfSpades on Jun 21, 2009 9:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nicely put!
How can you not love a team that does this?
by LovinBlue on Jun 21, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Full Disclosure
I am not a big fan of Addai for these reasons.
1. Injuries. Getting hit is a part of football. Getting hit as a RB is a HUGE part of football. You should be able to take a solid hit and not have to go out of the game for a couple of series. Example: Just as I can never forgive Nick Harper for running straight at Ben Roethlisberger at the end of the 05 playoff game instead of taking the sideline all the way, OR Mike V for missing the entire field with the resulting FG attempt, I also have a hard time forgiving how Addai went out of the SD playoff game in 07 after a seemingly insignificant hit at a big time in the game, only to have Kenton Keith come in and of course tip the sure TD catch and allow SD to breathe more life….the rest was history.
2. I know Addai likes to audition for Dancing With The Stars almost every time he gets the ball. I am coming to grips with that and I accept that it is a part of his game. What I don’t like about it is that instead of shifting to one side or the other while still moving forward, he always stops his momentum to do a jump step and then starts running again. He loses all of the momentum he had and therefore loses the likelihood of a consistent significant gain because the defense can react more easily and make the tackle. Barry Sanders is one of the few RBs in history that could take the ball in the backfield, move around while not running forward, and then make a play out of it most of the time. Addai is no Barry Sanders and he never will be.
I still wish him luck but I think The Donald will soon become the starting RB and Addai will go back to his role as 2nd half / game changer back like he was in 06 and I am okay with that.
"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me."
by AceOfSpades on Jun 22, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What has been proven here...
is that there really will be no need to ever visit KingRichards blog.
by Rob-Westside on Jun 22, 2009 12:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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