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Luke Links: ESPN's "blogger" finally links to us!

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Someone recently reminded me that we are 45 days away from the start of training camp. This means we are, roughly, one month away from other teams starting camp, especially those teams playing in the Hall of Fame game. So, just another month or so. We can hold out, mates. We can hold out.

  • Peyton Manning spoke during a press conference for the Y Sports Dinner at the Winnipeg Convention Centre. That's in Canada, folks.
  • Coincidentally, the guy drafted after Peyton Manning in 1998 was also in Canada recently. However, unlike Peyton, this guy was wanted by the law. He was picked up at the Canadian border and hauled away in handcuffs.
  • I think we have a first folks: Paul Kuharsky at ESPN's AFC South "blog" linked to one of our stories. Of course, it wasn't to anything I wrote. Paul had to link to something shake n bake wrote. This, of course, has made me very jealous of shake n bake. It has also led me to think Paul just doesn't like me, personally. Maybe it's because I think his job title as an ESPN "blogger" is simply asinine. If he's a "blogger," I'm Shia LaBeouf's missing finger. But that's not a comment on Paul. He seems like a good guy. It's the people who gave him that title who suck. I hope Paul doesn't hate me personally for speaking what many of us already know and feel about the WWL.
  • 18to88 is wrong about special teams not being terribly important to winning football games. In fact, the argument borders on the "painfuly ignorant" category. I just have to point to the San Diego playoff game last year and it pretty much destroys everything 18to88 says. SD dominated Indy on special teams, and that domination offset Peyton torching SD's secondary (again) and Indy's pass rush feasting on Phillip Rivers.
  • Keith Bulluck is a classless turd. Always has been. But don't take my word for it. Take Bulluck's teammate Cortland Finnegan's word, because he seems to agree with me. However, it seems Keith is trying to atone for his past douchebaggery. He recently tried to make up for his 2008 regular season immaturity by saying the Steelers are the team to beat in 2009. These are, of course, the same Steelers Bulluck insulted on live TV last December. 
  • Unlike Keith Bulluck, Colts RB Mike Hart is not a classless jerk. And he is still very much a part of Michigan football.
  • John Oehser talks about the Colts blogosphere. I am mildly insulted I was listed second behind 18to88 considering I've blogged much longer than they have. John must now walk through the snow barefoot and kiss my ring for forgiveness.
  • A Patriots fan hearts Peyton Manning (Tip to peytonsthebest).
  • One of my favorite players ever (Dominic Rhodes) continues to show just how classy and cool he really is. Buffalo Bills fans are going to love him. He might be the best back on their team now. (Tip to Hitstick Killer).
  • John Oehser (after walking through the snow barefoot, kissing my ring, and begging my forgiveness) wrote a couple of articles on Joseph Addai and the offensive line.
  • And finally, Len Pasquarelli has re-surfaced at ESPN. You know the quality of real football content is crap at the WWL when you are actually glad Len Pasquarelli is back, writing articles about football and not focusing on whether Terrell Owens took a dump today. Len's article is about the Colts and how they replace linebackers year after year. It's a great read, and a sad, annoying reminder that ESPN's coverage of sports is very, very vapid. Maybe ESPN will let Len "blog."(Tip to ColtsFanNChiTown).

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Dude, are you literate?

Did you read what I wrote? Did you read any of the articles I linked to?

Special teams can win any given game. As a whole, over the course of the season, most of the statistical impact of ST play is isolated to the kickers. It’s freaking proven fact. Indy could have had one of the best ST units and history and STILL they would have lost that SD game because of Scifres.

I don’t see why using statistics is akin to ignorance. You are using one fluky game unlike any that has ever happened in our lifetimes to argue the importance of a facet of the game that rarely matters to that extent.

THAT is ignorant.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Jun 18, 2009 11:13 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Your stats were selective

And your argument was incorrect. Special teams was one of THE reasons the Colts won 12 games. Their punt and kick coverage units were very good in 2008. Their return game was crap. But, if you know anything about special teams, you know that winning the field position battle is key to winning most football games. If you can keep the other team starting at the 20, the chances are VERY high that you win.

And yes, I am literate. Thanks for asking. You wrote:

Moreover, I went on to say that Special Teams play in general was “overrated” and “special teams just don’t matter…as long as you have a reliable FG kicker”.
This is pretty ignorant, and your stats, and your article, don’t back up your argument.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Jun 18, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What would back up my argument?

Field position is important. It has also been proven to more a function of offense and defense than special teams. I’m shocked you don’t know that.

Did you read any of the articles I linked to detailing the importance of ST play? They show that the kickers are really all that matter, and particularly the FG kicker.

I never said there was no value to ST play. I never said in any given game they might matter.

Fans think they matter a lot more than they do.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Jun 18, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

88 Games since 2001

Team has kept opponent starting, on average, on the 20 or worse. Record? 65-23, or 74%. I don’t think I’d consider that very high. I can find a lot of other stuff that leads to wins much more than that.

you know that winning the field position battle is key to winning most football games

73%, almost identical to the record of teams starting at the 20 or worse.

NFC North and NFC South writer for SB Nation's NFL Draft blog: Mocking the Draft

by mgrex03 on Jun 18, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even so...

It is also largely dependent on offense and defense, as well as the kicker (which is the one exception I granted to my statement).

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Jun 18, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have to agree

That San Diego playoff game was a fluke. I’ve never seen anything like it. The punter must have broken some kind of record that night.

"I throw, you catch, it's not that hard."

by Indy Lori on Jun 18, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Special Teams can win a game

it just doesn’t do it at a rate that stands out (really at all) among years and years of games.

A quarterback leaving his feet in traffic can lose you a game as we saw, but if you broke that down for how leaping QBs effect winning it would be so rare as to be unimportant.

Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake

by shake n bake on Jun 18, 2009 11:21 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I called him a "blogger" and his article I based mine off a gimmick right at the start

maybe I’m just awesome

or more likely it covered all 4 teams in his division so got x4 credit because his whole readership would be interested.

Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake

by shake n bake on Jun 18, 2009 11:27 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Kuharsky

His weekly link dump articles link to two sources about 99% of the time: John Oehser and the Indy Star. I’m just happy he finally took the time to read our own little blog and finally decided it was worth linking to. We’ve only been in business for three years. Hell, if you Google “colts blog,” we are #1 on the list. You’d think a fellow “blogger” would know to do that. Oh well.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Jun 18, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

First off, I wouldn’t put too much stock in the fact that Oesher listed 18 to 88 first. Deshawn ballwashes Oesher all the time and I’m sure Oesher sees this. Not saying it’s a bad thing, just slightly annoying.

Secondly, it doesn’t surprise me shake is being the yes man for Deshawn yet again. I often wonder why he doesn’t volunteer to be their site editor as well. He seems to like it there better anyways.

Thirdly, Deshawn’s argument about ST play not being important outside of FG is quite honestly one of the most inane things I’ve ever heard anyone say. How about you tell that to the 2006 Bears Deshawn. That team rode Hester and their overrated, ball hawking defense to the Super Bowl. Luckily for the Colts Sexy Rexy was paid off and Dom ate his Wheaties that morning, otherwise that Hester opening kickoff td would have royally screwed the Colts out of their one and only Championship.

Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.

by KingRichard on Jun 18, 2009 11:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Pathetic

It’s great when you guys can up with one example here and there of a game where ST play did matter, and ignore years of statistical research.

Very smart.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Jun 18, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why would I need to research stats to know that the 2006 Bears’ special teams unit played a major role in their success that season, ultimately leading them to the Super Bowl?

Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.

by KingRichard on Jun 18, 2009 11:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Because....

it’s called an exception. Most teams don’t make the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman as QB.

Anything is possible once. That doesn’t mean it’s normative.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Jun 18, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And the Colts won that SB

with the 25th ranked ST unit…

Guess being #1 in the league didn’t help that much did it!

Thanks for proving my point.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Jun 18, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the plural of anecdotes is not data

you can pick out a couple examples for anything you want to support in a sample as large as NFL team seasons, or NFL games. That’s why you analyze them on the whole for what is relevant.

Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake

by shake n bake on Jun 18, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which is why that argument is extremely flawed. It’s too much of a generalization to be considered “the rule.” I’m sure if someone spent the time looking through every single game that they would conclude ST as a whole unit, not just the FG kickers, is a very important and vitale part of a team’s success.

Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.

by KingRichard on Jun 18, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

vital...

Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.

by KingRichard on Jun 18, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They did that

And they found the exact opposite. Read my original post. Read the articles I linked to.

All the data is there.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Jun 18, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To sum it up:

They eventually found that ST play does matter some. But most of how much matters comes down to having a great kicker. The return game matters very little. Kick off coverage matters some, but is heavily dependent on…the kicker.

Teams are wise to spend money on a good kicker, and a good punter (especially if the offense is poor). Mostly, though ST play is unstable and difficult to predict. It can suddenly matter in a game, but then disappear for weeks and weeks as a factor.

In other words, it just doesn’t matter that often. Fans wring their hands too much about something that just isn’t that big a deal.

If you have a good kicker, you have what you need. All advantages are good for sure, but worry about the big things first.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Jun 18, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One reason the Bears were so good was

their field position, Devin Hester would give them 3 touchdowns a year and great field position. Then they would preceed to kick field goals and sometimes win. If they had an average kick or punt returner who only got them to the 20 25 yard line they would of punted alot more. Now they should better with a preety good Qb in Jay Cutler

"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"

by TheTealDeal on Jun 18, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the issue here is that we are arguing two different things

outstanding (or terrible) special teams play can help you win (or lose), but outstanding ST performances (the Hester’s) are so rare and short lived (Hester’s KR average has fallen to under 22 yards, he was terrible on punt returns last year, and he isn’t their primary or even best kick returner anymore) that they don’t have a significant effect when you look at every team and/or every game over the last decade.

Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake

by shake n bake on Jun 18, 2009 12:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

All I have to say is...

…this argument is impressive, and it proves that we have the smartest freakin’ fanbase of any NFL team.

by lefpsyd on Jun 18, 2009 2:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's nice to have something to talk about during the offseason

And for the record, I’m with Shake and Deshawn, mainly because I think the other side is blowing this up to be something it isn’t. Special teams are important and I think everyone can acknowledge that. They just are no where near as important, in general, as offense and defense. Every once in a while ST will make the difference in a game, but usually they don’t. The caveat of “outside of a kicker” is important too. The best ST teams don’t regularly make the playoffs while the best O and D teams often do

For the most part though, just reading the articles linked to by Deshawn make the case better than I ever could. The stats are just too plain to ignore.

"If you don't [draft me], I promise you I'll come back and kick your ass for the next 15 years."

by psvirsky on Jun 18, 2009 3:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Rhodes best back on Bills?

Sorry, but Rhodes is not nearly as good as Lynch and Fred Jackson (A highly under-rated player I might add). You are crazy if you think Rhodes is better than those guys.

by MasterRWayne on Jun 18, 2009 3:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

But he has SuperBowl Ring.

"I throw, you catch, it's not that hard."

by Indy Lori on Jun 18, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know why they were starting Edge over Dom all those years

Dom is the one that got a ring, so he’s clearly better.

Change these hundreds for me cashier, Cuz I ain't made it yet, but I'm better off than last year
And what it look like hun', I ain't never made it rain but it look like fun
-Drake, Still Drake

by shake n bake on Jun 18, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

good one.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Jun 18, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Edge don't need no curfew"

"I throw, you catch, it's not that hard."

by Indy Lori on Jun 19, 2009 6:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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