Luke Links: The annoyance with another Colts blog edition
by Brad Wells on Jul 2, 2009 10:58 AM EDT
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I hope everyone enjoyed last night's little podcast, which (truth be told) was little more than a glorified test of Blog Talk Radio's features. I hadn't touched the site in over two years and needed a little test drive before I start making higher quality podcasts. And a special thank you to Indy Lori for the kind words about my radio voice. I must admit, i come in a distant second to JasonB, who has the best radio voice of anyone at SB Nation. Listen to his podcasts (which are the best of any SB Nation podcasts, period) and you'll know I'm speaking the truth.
Now, onto the good stuff (and today, it will truly gooooooood):
- Second year DE Marcus Howard expects to make more of an impact in 2009. In limited play, Howard was impressive last year. Seeing as Indy only has five DEs on the roster, that indicates to me that Caldwell and Polian are very confident Howard and Curtis Johnson can step in should Dwight or Robert get hurt.
- Speaking of Dwight Freeney, he has a rather impressive workout routine, which is a combination of martial arts and weight training. Note to self: Never get in a fight with Dwight Freeney.
- Stayign with defense, lefpsydhas a FanPost up talking about a nice article on new starting LBer Philip Wheeler.
- So, it seems 18 to 88 didn't like our bashing of the Indianapolis Star and their horrid coverage of the Colts. Apparently, it is "classless" on our part to demand the Star (a major metropolitan newspaper) provide the same coverage of the Colts (12-4 last year, best QB in football) that the Green Bay Press-Gazette (smaller city, smaller paper) provides to the Green Bay Packers (6-10 last year, no Brett Favre). At 18 to 88, such demands are "classless" and "unfair." Part of the reason 18 to 88 thinks this is because to them "off-season chatter" is not enjoyable. This is, of course, regrettable seeing as 18 to 88 is a (supposed) dedicated Colts blog and almost 75% of a team's calendar year is spent in the off-season. Maybe that's why almost half of 18 to 88's content has nothing to do with the Colts. No offense, but no one really cares what 18 to 88 thinks about racing, soccer, or the completely irrelevant Cincinnati Reds. They either need to re-brand the site as a general Indiana sports site, or stop wasting our time with content we don't care about. Love those dudes to death, but if they have this kind of negative attitude towards off-season coverage of the Colts, it sends a clear message to readers that for eight of the twelve months in a year people should ignore 18 to 88.
- It's now been 20 days since the Star wrote an article on the Colts. The Green Bay Press-Gazette (Gannett-owned, just like the Star) posted a Packers article two days ago. They also did a live-chat with one of their writers recently; a weekly occurrence during the off-season. Yep, the Star pretty much still sucks.
- Another Austin Collie article from out west. He's a popular guy out there, it seems.
- Yahoo and National Football Post thinks Bob Sanders is the key impact player for the Colts in 2009. I agree, he is one of many key players, but not the key. Sadly, writer Matt Bowen doesn't know what he's talking about when he elaborates:
I’m picking Sanders for the Colts because when he isn’t on the field, their defense suffers.
Um, Bob Sanders hardly played at all last year, and the Colts still very much competed for their division. They would have won the division if Peyton Manning hadn't started the season playing on one leg. Matt Bowen would know this if Matt Bowen actually watched Colts football games. He'd know that Melvin Bullitt more than filled in for Bob last year....
If he plays an entire season, the Colts will compete for the division title.
- Nice chat with DT Eric Foster, the Colts most under-rated player (and possibly the toughest). The kid was a rookie last season playing all his games as the starting nose tackle while weighing only 270 pounds. Tough, tough player out of Rutgers.
- FOOTBALL IS BACK... in Canada. The CFL opened their season yesterday. The Saskatchewan Rough Riders (and their best running back, Kenton Keith) open their season tomorrow. Another CFL-Colts connection involves the CFL's champions last year: The Calgary Stampeders. The head coach of the Stampeders, John Hufnagel, used to be Indy's QB coach back in 2001. He was replaced by Jim Caldwell in 2002.
Now, before I close up the Luke Links for this week, let me state that I love 18 to 88 and I enjoy reading their stuff. My annoyance with their latest post and their choice of content stems from my desire (as a loyal 18 to 88 reader) to read more of their opinions about some of the very subjects they seem to loath covering; chief among those subjects is the Colts in the off-season. Supposed "hand-wringing" over the roster, analysis of players, opinions on this and that while games are not getting played... that is what NFL blogging is. One of the major reasons people reads blogs at all is because they are willing to talk about this kind of stuff while newspapers (like the Star) take two month vacations and sit on their hands.
If 18 to 88 truly dislikes off-season blogging, then what the hell are they doing covering the Colts? As stated earlier, 75% of a Colts blogger's job is writing about the off-season.
So, I'm not ranting here because I hate those guys, think they suck, or feel we Colts fans should ignore the site. Far from it. My annoyance is with their assumption that when supposedly "nothing" is happening, nothing should be covered.
Um, no. There is no real "off-season" in football anymore.
If fans aren't talking about the draft or free agency during the off-season, they're talking about who will win what job and how well they'll do at that job. They're talking scheme changes, coaching changes, and player changes. They're talking rookies, free agents, and veterans.
That is Colts blogging.
If that doesn't appeal to 18 to 88, then they really should blog about something else (general Indiana or Midwest sports, maybe). If not, their site title and description are misleading, and (as an avid 18 to 88 reader) it annoys me that one of the only reasons I'd ever go to 18 to 88 (analysis of the Colts during the off-season) is something the writers there say they don't like doing. I hope they change their mind and start re-focusing more on the central subject of their blog. They've lost their way a little bit, in this reader's opinion.
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It's a shame about the lack of coverage
I mean I know it isn’t completely football related, but this is when a lot of players do most of their intense charity and volunteer work. It’s still enjoyable to read some feature stories about how some players choose to spend their time away from the stadium. Personally I’ve grown to respect certain players – that I have no love for on the field – because of how they give back to their communities or have traveled abroad to visit the troops, etc…
Keep the faith!
I couldn't agree more.
The media always wants the ugly story in the NFL; rarely do you hear about the good stuff. I scour the internet and mostly get hits from little local sites…not ESPN, FOX, SI or NFL.
Great point.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jul 2, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
True Football Fans don't stop being fans just because it's the off season.
This is what I personally want to do with my spare time. Talking Colts with other people who feel the same way. I LOVE off season chatter. It’s fun and takes me away from all the everyday stresses of real life. If I’m reading about football I don’t have to think about what stupid thing my teenage son is going to do next. Also….BBS- your post was NOT tacky and classless in my opinion. I’ve subscribed to the Indy Star my whole life, which means I support them. But I feel we’re entitled to our opinions.
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
I think
I think the least interesting thing to read on either blog is an analysis/critique of the other blog.
by atg1 on Jul 2, 2009 11:58 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It is
I agree. It’s why I put my little rant at the end. The links are more important.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
BLOGWAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
That's big talk for a little guy,
but I'm walkin' without reply.
-Lil Wayne "Mr. Postman"
by shake n bake on Jul 2, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
but seriously
why complain about us having the blog market cornered on generating offseason content?
That's big talk for a little guy,
but I'm walkin' without reply.
-Lil Wayne "Mr. Postman"
My Two Cents
You usually do a great job of keeping your emotions in check (I would not of been able to keep myself from cursing Kravitz out on the phone) but in this post you just seem cranky. As shake n bake just pointed out, this sounds like it could be a blog war, which is pretty much pointless.
You aren’t going to be able to make 18 to 88 change their content or their name by telling them they should. They aren’t getting paid to be Colts bloggers. They are two brothers blogging about what they love. And it turns out that they love more than just the Colts. Should they change their name? No. What’s in a name? It’s all about content.
Now what they are doing defending the Star, I have no idea. Maybe once they revealed their true names Kravitz called and apologized and declared them official journalist, I don’t know.
All in all, I don’t want this to turn ugly.
It's not going to get ugly.
We’ve always defended the Star (except for Kravitz).
There was only one time we ever ripped the Star’s Colts coverage (a few weeks ago when the botched the big stories).
There’s nothing to cover right now. The players aren’t available for interviews because they aren’t at the complex much. Everyone is on vacation. Where are the reporters supposed to get the stories from? Players on vacation don’t want to talk to the press.
The Star isn’t a blog. They depend on access and events for their coverage. There are no events. There is no access. Therefore, there is no coverage. Calling them crap because Mike Chappell took a vacation is not fair. These guys have kids and families they barely see in season. When SHOULD they go on vacation?
I don’t think you all understand how much players look forward to their time off, and how little good it would do to spend that month hounding them for interviews away from West 56th Street.
18to88.com
Dwight Freeny Facts
1. If you have five dollars, and Dwight Freeny has five dollars, Dwight Freeny has more money than you.
Huh?
Dun nuh nuh nuhhhh!!!! Super Mathis
by hoosier in sodak on Jul 2, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I must
need to watch more total gym commercials…
Dun nuh nuh nuhhhh!!!! Super Mathis
by hoosier in sodak on Jul 2, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe you should learn to read BBS...
http://blogs.indystar.com/coltsinsider/archives/2009/06/ask-the-experts-14.html\
Do you like working while on vacation? I didn’t think so.
IndyStar
The IndyStar has for years seemed to have a scant amount of coverage for the Colts from the time the season ends until training camp. This past winter-spring I have essentially stopped counting on them for Colts coverage. I think BBS’s response was what I have been thinking for a long time, and has finally been given air.
Before the BBS explosion, Indy Football Report had a reader address this very issue of his own accord. Mr. Oestler defended the paper. Given his background and relationship with the writers, I can see why he defended them, but the sentiment that they have too little Colts articles is already out there among fans.
That said, I still didn’t agree with his justification for their writers. That’s just my opinion. I would think that they can come up with all kinds of ideas for consistent stories week in and week out since they know the players, coaches and team so well.
But who will write the stories?
The writers are on vacation. When should they take their vacations if not exactly when the players do?
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jul 2, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Vacation
Look, everyone truly needs vacation. We have to take time away to whittle away at the stresses we all build up, whether it be work, outside life, etc. The issue is more about consistantly getting information about our team, nuggets/pearls/ whatever you want to call them. I wouldn’t expect someone to have to work on vacation but they haven’t been on vacation since the Draft either. It seems as if the blog sites explore all kinds of issues Colts related and in more depth than we get from the Star.
It seems I have been spoiled by these blod sites – to which I am new in the past year.
But a paper isn't a blog
Think about what you are asking of the Star. On one hand, you want them to be like a blog and generate constant content. But why should they? The blogs fill that role.
What we need from the Star is in depth articles and interviews that require research and face time with the players. Many of the players don’t live in Indianapolis. They aren’t hanging around the complex to do interviews. There isn’t anything to report.
It’s fine to claim that the NFL is a 12 month a year sport, but it isn’t. June is the one true off month.
My understanding is that Bill Polian himself takes time off during June and early July.
That should tell everyone something.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jul 2, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but
it’s not black or white / all or nothing. I don’t think anybody’s suggesting that newspapers generate “constant content” in the manner of a blog. But almost three weeks without a peep about the biggest team in the region? That’s pathetic. I understand this is the time writers take their vacations; perhaps they could stagger them? Is every writer who is qualified to write about football on vacation at the same time? That seems like very poor planning. And there are plenty of topics to be covered that do not need the presence of players at the complex: opinion pieces, statistical analyses, stories about players’ offseasons that could be researched with a few simple phone calls, etc.
Ultimately this is why newspapers are dying: in the infromation age they just aren’t as relevant or topical anymore. They don’t have to become blogs, but adding a few more blog-like elements would help them compete in a changing marketplace. Look at the explosion of internet traffic in the last decade, combine it with a simultaneous implosion of newspaper readership, add in the obvious passions of the blog audience that are expressed in this post alone — there is very clearly a market for more year-round coverage of the Colts. If The Star does not adapt with the times, it will only grow ever more irrelevant. And the people in charge seem to be too ignorant to know this or care.
What was there to cover?
Ok, so three weeks went by without a story. What did they miss in that time? Was there a story they should have covered but didn’t? Is it their fault that nothing happened during that stretch?
Look at the stuff Stampede Blue published during that stretch. mgrex03 has done a nice job with his “finding the winning factors” series, but it’s not really ‘newspaper’ work (by content I mean. the quality is excellent). BBS did a couple of newsy type pieces on Ray Rychleski and Caldwell but not with anything really new, but it’s not like the chatter around this blog has been all that interesting.
Again, that’s not a criticism. It’s recognizing that nothing is going on.
As blogs, we serve a purpose. It’s a different purpose than the newspapers. Could the Star do better? Sure. They could can Bobby K for one. But I don’t fault them for not publishing stories when there isn’t anything to publish.
Calling the Star “Crap, utter crap” is simply not fair. It implies the work they do all the rest of the year is bad, and it isn’t. The Star gives us Phil B Wilson. The Star gave us the story that Moore and Mudd are coming back…one that still hasn’t been adequately picked up by other sources.
To make fun of the fact that Mike Chappell gets a one month vacation is out of bounds. That guy spends weeks and nights away from his family.
Phil B Wilson is asked to cover a wide variety of sports. I would LOVE for the Star to pay him to just do the Colts 365 days a year, but just because they don’t doesn’t mean the paper and by implication, the writers are bad.
My fear is that if we lose the Star, we’ll lose Wilson and Chappell and their contributions are great. Sure, we’ll be spared Kravitz too, but that’s not a trade I’m willing to make.
BBS wasn’t unfair in bringing up the issue perhaps, but the attacks on the length of vacation time and the headline were patently unfair.
18to88.com
by deshawn zombie on Jul 2, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Again
it depends on your idea of what is fit to cover in a newspaper. Was there the kind of material that you’d find in-season? Of course not. Does that mean that there was absolutely nothing of interest or value to talk about concerning the Colts during the last three weeks? You may think “yes,” I respond with a resounding “NO.” On this site during that span I have enjoyed opinion pieces (including training camp positional battles and an analysis of Polian’s draft success), statistical analyses (including winning factor pieces and WR comparisons with the Colts receivers’ relative standings), and a couple of all-AFC South posts to name a few.
As I said before, I do not expect The Star to start pumping out constant content the way a blog does, but neither should they let the better part of a month go by without so much as a peep about the region’s most popular team. Again, there is clearly a market for offseason coverage. The people want it; The Star is not delivering. So what happens? The people go elsewhere for their information, and sooner or later stop going to The Star altogether. As clearly as I can put it, this is why newspapers are dying: they are not adapting to the changing criteria of the information age. Maybe it’s time for the newspapers to get rid of the “that’s not what we do” attitude and start adapting what they do to meet the needs of a new generation of readers in changing times. Or they can continue their death march into oblivion, laying off thousands of workers along the way. This is not hyperbole; I’m sure you’re aware that this is exactly what’s been happening to newspapers for the last decade.
On a side note, I agree that The Star as a whole (not specifically referring to sports coverage) is utter crap, at least 75% of the time. It was never a great paper to begin with, and when Gannett took over it became a homogenized, generic snoozefest devoid of local color. For one example, coverage of the local arts scene is practically non-existent. Unless of course you like movie reviews. Compare The Star to just about any other major city’s newpaper(s) and it looks amateurish. Of course, that’s just my opinion….
The Indy Star
Is a complete joke and so is anyone that defends them. Their “coverage” of sports, politics and business is laughably bad. This is brought about because Gannett (which owns The Star) is far more interested in saving blotted corporate salaries then it is in actually generating a good product. The CEO’s make millions, Bob Kravitz makes a SIX figure salary… and then the “little people” (you know the actual reporters that make 30-50K) get laid off. Just two days ago Gannett stated they were laying off up to 4,000 people more people many of which will come from the Indy Star.
What a joke! You call that a product? You call that journalism?
blogs
I agree. 18 to 88 does a great job, but I would prefer to see more articles about the Colts and less about of of town baseball that just does not appeal. The Colts are the best sports team in the area and the fans enjoy the local blogs because you can usually find something of interest there. The local news just leaves a lot to be desired when covering the Colts! Sad but true.
While you may prefer less out of town baseball articles that do not appeal, that’s not what the entire blog is about. Read their site and one of their first posts. Some of you are so dense it’s incredible.
The worst part of stampedeblue
Not that I want to get myself involved in an internet war, but this rant from BBS is exactly the worst thing about reading stampedeblue. I come here for links to stories about the Colts, interesting articles not covered elsewhere (the keys to winning series is a prime example), and general silly diversions during my day (jakethesnake, I’m looking at you).
The attacks, non-backed up argumentative posts, and stupid hyperbole is what I don’t want. And to be perfectly honest, it is what sets quality apart from crap. Kravitz is wrong when he says anonymity is the difference, and BBS is wrong when he says it’s quantity.
To be perfectly honest, for these reasons I thought KingRichard was basically unreadable, and BBS is now falling into that category.
I don’t always agree with 18to88, and I don’t care about racing, basketball, or baseball, but I’d rather read about those things in the quality manner provided, then this idiocy.
Neither one is my site, so I can’t control what they write. I can control what I read, and if the last couple of weeks are what BBS wants his blog to be about, I agree with 18to88. I’m just going to skip it until the season comes around.
Man, I can’t catch a break can I? I’m off of the site, what more do you want?!
Yeah, so I sold out, do something about it! Like read my site Colts Chatter.
You have plenty of well wishers
and a lot of them would like to throw you down one … a well … they want to murder you in a well.
That's big talk for a little guy,
but I'm walkin' without reply.
-Lil Wayne "Mr. Postman"
18to88
Great site. Different from this one in style. Great content. Read some of their fixtures, like their season projections based on Star Wars or Lost. Great stuff. Their 88 Reasons to Hate the Patriots. Wonderful. Their Articles section and their Fixtures section alone can keep you entertained and informed for hours. Quality writing.
SB Nation has a great system that allows a lot of reader interaction and contribution. Its set up is remarkable. It is one of the charms of this blog. These blogs have different appeal.
This entire thread is worthless. But hey, it is early July in Coltsville. Our only alternative to pettiness perhaps is disappearing for a month. Perhaps the Star writers have the right idea after all.
What BBS is saying about the Star is true
First, I like 18to88.com. I like Stampede Blue. I like IndyFootballReport. All these sites provide us Colts fans with a place to go to see some opinions, analyses, and news regarding our team. I think BBS is absolutely right in his opinion on the Star. The fact is that the Star often neglects an area of its readership that no other major paper in the nation does. This is not a knock on Phil B. or Chappell at all. I think they both do great jobs, this is about their employer. The Star (or RATS) has earned this reputation for “ambulance chasing” reporting regarding the Colts. What I mean by that is that they want to only cover the bare minimum with the Colts EXCEPT if there is some bad or controversial news regarding the team, owner, or players. In that case, they are all over it. This has been allowed for years and years because the Star has had zero competition. Another factor in this may be that the Colts are not known as the most open of teams and getting information out of them can be difficult at times. Kravitz himself often derides Polian’s secrecy (and other things) on his crappy radio show.
I do agree with DZ that I don’t want the Star to go completely under because we (as Colts fans) would lose out if Phil B. and Chappell aren’t there to report. But, I absolutely agree with BBS that Colts fans get shafted in comparison to every other NFL team’s local reporting. I think the local media should always be called out when they are doing a disservice to their audience and the fact that the Star’s coverage of the Colts was mentioned just a day or two ago on the Dakich show is proof that these blogs that all of you run are being read and heard.
I hope eventually that the Colts will become more open with the new media age and allow more access to those that want to get the information to the fans including the writers of 18to88 and StampedeBlue.
Idle Hands Do The Devil's Work...
Now do you see, my Children? Without the guiding light from our Lord and Savior, The Almighty Football, we fall upon each other like a tribe of bloodthirsty heathens! Hungry for any scant form of sustenance left in the exodus of the Holy Word of The Colts, we have become likened to that which we most despise…Patriots fans (otherwise known to us as minions of the Dark Lord, Lucifer).
Despaireth not, worshippers of the Big Blue Horse Shoe, training camp cometh! And with it a kingly wealth of blogging, a veritable feast of gossip, a great bounty of debate. Stop this unholy blog-war before it is too late! Rejoice and keep the faith, my Brothers!
Hallelujah!
Amen!
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