KC Joyner is pretentious "blogger," hates Peyton Manning
I don't normally make a habit of reading the NY Times "blog" about sports, called The Fifth Down, because it kind of... well, it kind of sucks, to be bluntly honest with you. One of the reasons it sucks is because Fifth Down uses "football scientist" KC Joyner as a contributor. I personally cannot think of a more pretentious title than "Football Scientist." I almost thought it was a tongue-in-cheek joke, but since both the NY Times and their blog are completely and utterly humorless, I have to conclude that Joyner thinks it makes him sound important, or something. If I can offer a comparison, you can title yourself Sanitary Engineer, but that doesn't change the fact that you're cleaning toilets.
And calling a silly fool like Joyner a "scientist" is like adding PhD after "Bozo T. Clown."
Joyner's most recent column at Fifth Down is even more enjoyable than his usual nonsense (he used to write articles for ESPN). Rather than write a new article about something relevant and interesting as we get ready for training camps to open, Joyner re-posts an article he wrote two years ago and asks his readers to answer the seemingly burning question Why Does The Peyton Manning Fan Club Have Membership Issues?
Joyner lists ten reasons why Peyton Manning isn't more revered, most of which are nothing tangible and (in some cases) simply not credible. When you read them you cannot help but wonder if Joyner once caught Manning sleeping with his sister in college, or something. The knocks are the kind of typical crap we often hear from drunken Patriots fans: His "gestures" too much at the line-of-scrimmage; he "pouts"; does too many commercials; he isn't physical; plays indoors, etc. Again, if most of this stuff sounds old, it is! I'm almost shocked Joyner didn't include "Hasn't won a big game." He might as well have.
Here's my favorite quote from Joyner, a man who refers to himself as (once again) a "football scientist":
7. His intellectual style. I make my living by reviewing stats and other metrics, so I’m all for this approach, but even I don’t want to make the game quite as intellectual as Manning seems to want to at times.
Seriously, people pay this guy good money to write this stuff. Or, in Joyner's case, they pay him good money to re-post old stuff.
In other news, Peyton Manning was recently rated as the #3 quarterback of all time in the NFL, ahead of Brett Favre (who Joyner claims is "just as successful as Manning over the years.") Maybe someone should pass that link on to Mr. Football, PhD.
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spelling pretentious right
is pretentious
That's big talk for a little guy,
but I'm walkin' without reply.
-Lil Wayne "Mr. Postman"
by shake n bake on Jul 22, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
fixed
That's big talk for a little guy,
but I'm walkin' without reply.
-Lil Wayne "Mr. Postman"
by shake n bake on Jul 22, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I read the article/nonsense.
This Joyner person sounds like a little girl, trying to convince people of something that is so lame even she doesn’t really believe it. It’s crap on a stick.
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
Meh.
I read this a couple of days ago…its stoopid, Joyner’s an idiot and the sky is blue.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
Almost forgot...
what I found interesting were the comments. 99% of them were questioning this “article” and favorable to Peyton – from Colts’ fans and non Colts’ fans alike. There are some pretty good comments in there.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jul 22, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
The Bleacher Report has a nice rebuttal on the above mentioned article.
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
Off topic
but is there going to be a podcast tonight? I noticed that wednesday nights are the trend for doing them.
If there was going to be a podcast there would be a heads up about it. So I'm guessing not.
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
I asked yesterday in a previous thread
and haven’t gotten a response yet. So, I’d say no, but check back in later to make sure.
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This would probably happen to me if I ever won anything.
Oh and in regardes to this article
Who the hell questions intelligence in the game of football, especially at the QB position?
A stupid idiot who's grasping at straws.
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
About Peytons Toughness
8. His lack of physicality. Manning has already started more consecutive games than just about anyone in NFL history and there is a good chance he will end up breaking Favre’s quarterback record in this category. Despite this, he still isn’t seen as a tough guy. This is partly because he has an offensive system that is designed to protect him. He rarely takes any hits due to this, though he is also helped by his ability to get rid of the ball quickly. Not taking hits does help him survive physically but it doesn’t do much for his reputation.
Having superior field vision and the ability to release the ball quicker than pass rushers can get to you makes you less tough? The first sentence in this paragraph completely foil’s his number 8 reason for not liking him.
Didn’t he get his jaw broken on an illegal hit and miss one single friggin snap because of it???
Yah, Pansy right there
by Hitstick Killer on Jul 22, 2009 6:26 PM EDT reply actions
Exactly.
I’ve seen Peyton take plenty of hard hits. In fact, I think it was the 07 season, one hit he took (which was a late hit) he had to go over to the sideline and sniff some smelling salts – his bell was rung.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jul 22, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yah i really remember that one
because it was against the Washington Redskins, I’m from VA so all of my friends are “Skin Headz”
Week 7 of the ‘06 season, Peyton got wrapped up low and another guy came in late and bent him frickin backwards, all my friends got hyped because the hit looked nasty and i’m ridiculously pissed off because it was late and should have been called for unnecessary roughness. Alas, he misses one play, smells some salts and comes back. just as the Gatorade commercial goes, “That’s G”
by Hitstick Killer on Jul 22, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Freakin' awesome.
Boy, I sure hope Addai can get back to form. I forgot how good he was before last season.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jul 23, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I think
alot of people forget how good Addai was before last season
by Hitstick Killer on Jul 31, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
There is nothing intelligent in that entire point.
The same goes for the entire article.
by coltsfanawalt on Jul 23, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Another dick head column......
Written by a dick head so called prognosticator. If you can’t be informed and original, I know, make shit up.
Its the NYTimes
Im surprised this Joyner douche bag didnt have his #1 reason being…Well he plays in Indy and everyone knows Indiana is a perennial red state (tho it went for obama…barely) and they are all hick red necks who cant even sniff our elititst heels. I mean seriously I work for the most liberal paper in this country, so of course I hate him and his fans.
Hey NY Times, articles by this idiot, and a total lack of truthfulness overall, is why your papers stock is pretty much at “junk bond” status
poeple always attack the pats
when some1 insults you fave QB you go and attack the Pats
you guys need to stop doing that
I think
He is referring to this line:
The knocks are the kind of typical crap we often hear from drunken Patriots fansBasically, he’s whining. For years we heard Pats fans say Peyton can’t win a big game, and that he can’t beat Belichick. Now, we rub it back in their fat faces and they cray like little children. Hilarious.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account and post a diary, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
Any bets on him having made some variation of one of Joyner's shots at Peyton?
That's big talk for a little guy,
but I'm walkin' without reply.
-Lil Wayne "Mr. Postman"
by shake n bake on Jul 22, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
ha ha i dont care you dont beat the Pats enough to have 3 SB rings
i went there
im not crying how can a Pats fan cry about a Colt comment thats not possible at ALL!
You may have 3
but, we remember the feeling of winning a super bowl more recently.
Amazingly, that is a really effective trump card. It works with Yankee fans all the time.
The whole article is based on a Wrong premise anyway
How is there any proof that Peyton is less like around the league than Tom Brady. I’m pretty sure, after reading reports and articles from around the league, that Peyton has equal if not greater respect from his peers than Tom. The media loves Brady, but that has more to do with his propensity to date and wed models, and his “rugged good looks” and the fact that his TEAM won three super bowls, and they now have entered into a phase of kneeling down to his team that has failed to win a super bowl in the last four years.
Peyton will never be as beloved as Favre (the guy he will take over as the leader in numerous categories) becuase he’s Brett Favre, and he plays for the Packers. THe Packers history and Lambeau, and Frozen Tundra and all that other crap drum up Favre. I hate that, but I have to admit it.
Overall, though, this is a pointless article by a pointless man, who, despite throwing out random stats, has no real credibility and no proof of his inteligence in football, which one can easily get from reading his book.
as a dolphins fan
i personally love peyton manning. his attitude, the way he plays, all of it. one of the greatest qbs to ever play.
i hate brady…well im a dolphins fan what do u expect.
i hate that the media loves brady. brady is a great qb and all but dang everyone seems to have a serious hard on for him at espn.
peyton manning is the best qb in the league rite now. id love to have him on my team. he is one of the classiest players to ever play in the nfl as well.
Head Cheerleader of the official Matty I Fan Club
"Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting."- Man on Fire
by Davone_Is_BessT on Jul 23, 2009 2:38 AM EDT reply actions
It amazes me
But let’s face it, Brady is the “cool” kid, and Peyton is the nerd trapped inside a fread of a body. The media is going to love Brady because they are idiots and it seems like Brady doesn’t even try. Meanwhile, Peyton is probably walking around Football School hunched over while toting around a backpack stuffed with playbooks. He’d be wearing a pair of really uncool sneakers because they helped him stay on his toes to release the ball quicker and all the models would make fun of him for it.
Or I’m just bitter about my childhood. I don’t know.
Here's what I posted on NYT in response
Do you actually watch football?
First off, didn’t I read this article a couple years ago? Are you just copy and pasting everything now?
Secondly, this is a dumb, not to mention inaccurate, list.
1) Pre-Snap Movement: You say Favre has been just as successful as Manning over the years without the pre-snap gestures, except, of course, he hasn’t. Look up their stats, wins, etc., for this decade, and you will see this. You can’t exactly give yourself the title of “Football Scientist” if you don’t know how to compare two player’s stats.
And, if you would interview any player who has ever played against Manning, you’ll realize those “histrionics” are extremely effective.
2) Pouting on the field when things don’t go well: Name one player who doesn’t pout when things don’t go well. That’s just stupid. Brady get’s caught on camera throwing a water bottle to the ground at a teammate’s feet and he is praised for his fire. Manning puts his head down, runs off the field and looks at game photos of the play, and he’s pouting. That’s just insane.
3) Throwing his teammates under the bus after a loss: Just doesn’t and hasn’t happened. You’re making it up. I know you’re referring to the loss against the Steelers a couple years ago in the playoffs when Manning had absolutely zero time to throw the ball all day because of so much pressure put on by the Steelers’ D. After the game, Manning was the first player, like always, into the press conference where he answered every question honestly – unlike some players who skip out after a tough loss…cough, cough, Tom Brady. Every reporter was asking Manning about the play of his offensive line. Finally, he told them that “yeah… there were problems with protection.” But he specifically said he WASN’T going to throw any one under the bus and trying to be a good teammate.
Only in your reality is that “throwing a teammate under the bus.”
4 & 5) You’re pretty much saying that he’s too smart, too well spoken and too successful. You’ve got to be kidding me.
6) And here you’re blaming him for being born. Tom Brady didn’t necessarily “over come” many obstacles, either. (You really don’t watch football, do you?) He was a great starting QB at Michigan. Was drafted late for God knows why. And then sat on the bench until Bledsoe got hurt. He had great success when he finally got to play. But you’re saying people will never like anyone who is a top ten draft pick. Have you ever heard of John Elway? Berry Sanders? LT? Walter Payton!? You’re just making stuff up to get to ten, aren’t you?
7) This makes me believe you voted for Bush twice, didn’t you. God you’re dumb.
8) If he let himself get the crap beat out of him like Trent Green or Steve Young late in his career, you’d consider him a better QB? Again, you’re dumb.
9) You realize the Colts are the only team to have won a Super Bowl in the pouring ran. Remember who was the MVP of that game? Again, you have to actually watch football if you want to write about it.
10) This is the one that really ticked me off. This should make you ashamed of yourself. Manning gave his name to Indy’s children’s hospital. His Peyback Foundation has given hundred’s of thousands of dollars to the communities of Indianapolis, Knoxville and New Orleans every year since its founding.
When Louisiana was hit by Hurricane Katrina, the Manning family chartered a plane full of water and supplies to help those who had just lost their homes and whose lives had been destroyed. He doesn’t get arrested for drunk driving or having too much fun in shady hotel rooms with various “models” and he isn’t followed and indirectly praised by paparazzi and journalists (like you) for dumping his pregnant girlfriend to date a super model.
He plays the game the right way on the field and, more importantly, conducts himself the right way off the field, too.
If you want to know why he isn’t seen as highly as he should be by those who follow football, it’s because of journalist like you and articles like this. You can’t find anything wrong with the guy, so you take his strengths and try to turn them into weaknesses – that’s a political tactic, too.
I feel sorry for you, because ten years from now, when he’s done playing, you’re going to realize how wrong you were and how there’s no one else like Manning playing the game. And you will have missed your opportunity to appreciate and enjoy him for what he is: One of the best QBs to have played the game, and quite possibly the best role model the NFL has ever had.
by MileHighHoosier on Jul 23, 2009 12:35 PM EDT reply actions 8 recs
FABULOUS!
Perfect. In every possible way. Rec’d.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jul 23, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
LOVE IT!!!!!!!!
I would Rec’d it 1 millions times if i could! I can’t believe ppl can hate on someone that hard.
"Peyton Manning flow, I just go no huddle."
- Lil' Wayne, Put Some Keys on That
Checking here, too
Yep… still glad we have the QB we do.
How can you not love a team that does this?
recd
Head Cheerleader of the official Matty I Fan Club
"Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting."- Man on Fire
by Davone_Is_BessT on Jul 24, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
You Colts fans probably don't care..
but this same idiot all but said Cutler and Grossman are equal when it comes to QBs. He has even made up a statistic. He calls it a “near interception”. Nobody but him seems to know what that is. That’s the only way that he can justify his position on Cutler. It makes me question the NY Times and their choice of sports writers.
We are who we think we are.
From what I've read of him that's what he does
it’s not Football Outsiders type stuff. It’s him making up a subjective or self defined stat, watching tape recording it then writing about what his new stat says.
That's big talk for a little guy,
but I'm walkin' without reply.
-Lil Wayne "Mr. Postman"
by shake n bake on Jul 23, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
If that's not arrogant,
then I don’t know what is.
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This would probably happen to me if I ever won anything.
He's a completely unqualified idiot
He does chats weekly on the equally reprehensible ESPN, and it seems to me that the only stat that he ever throws out are POA (point-of-attack wins) stats. At least the FO guys have a multitude of stats that are explained and mentioned. This guy just pretends to be a guy who knows something about the game. I really get no indication that he has any idea about what real football is. To me, even Tuesday Morning Quarterback’s Easterbrook is more knowledgable.

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