2009 Colts Training Camp: New and notes from 8/10/09 Morning Practice (aka, Tony Ugoh not starting anymore)

Put Ugoh back

Ugoh played well last year at LT and Charlie played OK. I love Charlie because he’s a hard worker, but a starting LT he is not. And here training camp was going so well and then we get news like this. I totally agree BBS, Charlie better come out guns a blazin or there is no reason for this switch.

If the reports about Ugoh handling freeney well are true, then why switch? its just really stupid. I mean even at the scrimmage it was said that MAthis and Brock were creating all the havoc and that is on the right side of the line, not left were Ugoh plays.

They’ve always been directed at his health, not his level of play. With Ugoh finally healthy, why Caldwell, WHY, are you making the switch!?!?!

Ugoh will win the job back.

If this is just Caldwell, I’m worried, because he hasn’t shown enough for me to trust he’s right on something that I really don’t agree with/understand the reasoning on. If Mudd is on board or even making this call I trust he’s probably doing right thing.

The prospect of James Harrison vs Charlie Johnson matchup is making me warm and fuzzy inside. Seriously though, I can’t believe it. Ugoh seemed servicable, and I’ve been reading this board long enough to know that Johnson couldn’t even start on our o-line. 0_o

has the defense outplaying the offense. Now that could mean a couple different things. First, that the offense is back to form and the defense is excellent this year. That’s what we want to believe as fans. The second possibility is that the defense is average, but the offense is subpar and struggling. That thought makes me sick.

Last season Peyton disguised how bad the O-line was with his savvy, quick release and good decisions. But the running game struggled, and Manning didn’t do well deep without more time. In training camp, the best offense has been through the air, as the running game has not impressed particularly. Could this be a repeat from last year? I hope not. But this news does not bolster my confidence. It even makes me wonder if there is a reason the defense has looked so good.

Ugh.

Ugoh will be back starting by September. And thanks for laying out the what could have been scenario in 2008 with Forte/Johnson, BBS. I felt my blood pressure rise when I read that. I always questioned the decision to give up our 1st rd ’08 pick for Ugoh because I thought we could have just drafted another one with equal potential.

If this is a motivational tactic by the Colts staff (hope so), it wouldn’t surprise me, since they’ve been doing this to him all summer (Polian’s previous comments about him). If Charlie Johnson starts, he better sure as HELL dominate, but from what we have seen, he has a career reserve guy. Ugoh better get this position back or the line has improved none in the offseason.

Oh well. All news from training camp can’t be perfect. Seriously, though, Ugoh better get that spot back. I hate the thought of what we gave up for him.

and get all pissed off at Caldwell. I’m almost positive that this move comes with the agreement of Mudd and possibly Polian too. I agree that “WTF” can be said about the pick of Ugoh and how we traded him to for a first rouned, but not a “WTF” on Caldwell’s part and benching him over Johnson. Johnson has had as much success, maybe even more, as Ugoh thus far over their careers. If people are going to question Caldwell of this move, then Mudd (top offensive line coach in the game) should also be questioned. I’m more on the wait and see stance as of now…not the “WTF”.

start practicing blocks lined up next to the LT position.

i hope all us arm-chair critics are dead wrong……..

Caldwell does not strike me as a “retarded move” kind of guy. i would like to believe he had conversations with Mudd, and Moore about one of the most important starting positions in support of the QB…….who we all know is the biggest key to our team at this point in time.

im sure he didnt make a decision like this on his way back to bed at 3am after taking a leak……

we’ll just have to see how it pans out.

This is simply a move to put the best player at a position. Maybe it does light a fire under Ugoh (who shouldn’t need a fire lit under him to work harder), but from what I saw last year there wasn’t much difference in the line when Ugoh was out and Johnson was in (at LT). So if there was little change between the two, why not go for the guy who is more consistently healthy?

I’m rooting for them both obviously, but I think the team has to start the better player (or in this case, the more healthy of similarly skilled players). If that player is Johnson right now, then I’m all for it.

I dont have any faith in Johnson

I said months ago they should have drafted an OT, or at least someone who could play the position (if anyone remembers I wanted an OT more than I wanted a DT). Now it would appear that we’re stuck with an undersized LT without any forearms.

But the key to remember here is that none of us are professionals; even our obsessive game-watching doesnt qualify us as expert talent evaluators. Theoretically, as has been the case in the past, if the line gets a chance to gel and practice technique (i.e., stay injury-free) the personnel doesn’t matter too much. Here’s just trying to keep the faith and hope this coaching staff knows what it’s doing.

The regular season is still a month away.

Its the #1 issue facing the Colts team. Way more than RB or defense this year. As I said previously I think the interior is quite strong with Lilja, Saturday, Pollack, Justice and Richards. However, the team has serious issues at LT and RT. Its a giant brown streak of poo on an otherwise extremely talented team.

I don’t think Caldwell is making a “retarded move” I just think we might have to face that Tony Ugoh might be freaking constantly hurt and has regressed.

Seriously, Ugoh was good his rookie year, but he wasn’t amazing either. He wasn’t even 1/2 as good as Joe Thomas was his rookie year. He did show a lot of potential and sadly he just hasn’t capitalized on it.

That would be worse. In my opinion.

I respectfully disagree with most of you on this topic. Most fans are in denial about this. The bottom line is the Colts can’t run the ball, not with the current OL. The stretch play was dropped last year due to 18’s injury for the first 2 months then because the line was not able to seal off the edge… Johnson might not be the answer but I believe ugoh is far from it… There’s not much of a drop off in pass coverage but teh difference is in running the ball. To win games you’ve got to run the ball but also stop the run (it worked in 06), otherwise we’ll never pick up 3rd & 2 when we need them!

Charlie is serviceable, but anyone who thinks he is a starting LT is just fooling themselves.

The other thing that we are overlooking is not only are the starting tackles questionable, but we have zero depth behind them. What happens when there are serious injuries to LT and RT?

This is not a huge deal and I don’t see how CJ starts over TU come September, unless it’s a health issue. The historical empirical evidence seems pretty strong in TU’s favor. will CJ surirpse us? Then great, it’s all about putitng the best 22 out there. TU will make a fine RT.

As a second rounder, I don’t think he can be considered a bust unless he’s benched. Yes, we’ve grown accustomed to UDFA’s starting and being impressive (thank’s to Mudd), but not everybody does that. How about the Jags draft that most of us are praising (including me)? They drafted a RT in the 2nd round. Shall we automatically call that draft a bust because they wasted a 2nd round pick on a RT? No.

Also, bustmeisters, keep in mind that Glenn suddenly retired and a rookie stepped in and helped us win 13 games his rookie year. We had all assumed a year of learning behind Glenn, so we were “in the money” after one year already. Call last year his “learning/injured year” where he regressed and we’re now just breaking even on the investment. And this coming year, assuming he starts somewhere on the line, will be a biggie. He “should” produce more than in the past (which would make us all happy), but even if he’s just good enough but not an all pro at either tackle spot, a decent starter isn’t necessarily a bust. You may have had huge expectations for him, and if so, he’s a bust for you personally. But objectively, (A) it’s too soon and (B) he’s already produced decently. Now if he starts nudging traffic cops with his car, or killing pedestrians or hot-tubbing with drunk teens, then all bets are off.

Please reconsider the bust status, at least for another season. He’s still in the NFL (so far) and likely to be a starter for a few more years, even if it’s at RT. When his ass hits the bench during the season, then the bustometer can start measuring.

DO SOMETHING!

Right now I consider Ugoh a borderline bust player. He still has this year to turn things around, but losing out to the likes of Charlie Johnson does not bode well for this player.

And yes if Ugoh does not work out he is indeed a bust and not just any bust, but a pretty big one too. We also gave up a 1st round pick in 2008 for Ugoh. We could have gotten a guy like Matt Forte with that pick. Someone that could have really helped us. Instead we didn’t have a pick and we got stuck with Mike Pollack who will, hopefully, play better after a disappointing 2008 season.

As for Ugoh’s production he was fairly good his rookie season, but one year of good production does not justify a 2nd round pick yet along a 2nd round pick that you also gave up a 1st rounder to get. Bottom line, if Ugoh doesn’t work out then it will be a pretty epic fail for Polian and the Colts.

Hopefully he turns it around, but things are not looking good thus far on the O-Line front.

Wow, this sucks for Tony Ugoh. I thought he was going to have a break out season this year. I’m not sure if it’s wise to question Jim Caldwell’s decision yet. He has made good calls this season by replacing the defensive and special team’s coordinators. If Ugoh cannot play with a sense of urgency and consistency, then he deserves to lose his job. Just like any other position on this team. If you’re not playing up to standards, then you can be replaced, which is something Tony Dungy stressed, you know, “you can be replaced.” However, other than QB, I’d have to say that LT is the most important position on a football team. If Peyton Manning’s on his back more than he is his feet, we’re not going to go anywhere. And, if we can’t block a freaking end, there’s no way we’re going to be able to run the ball. I smell a repeat of last season.

Offensive line play in the NFL is like ballet. If the guy next to you steps on your foot, you look like a fool even though it is not your fault.
Did not CJ step forward in the SB and absolutely stone a Bear “SuperRusher?”
That does not mean he’s the best, but to me it seems that we should wait and see.
I agree that TU should be better and, if he is not, it was a waste of Draft Choice position, but not neccesarily a waste of a Draft Choice. He could after all turn into a super utility backup lineman; of which there are never enough.

If Manning goes down, we are “TOAST,” therefore, we do not need an average backup quarterback. We should be looking for the Q-B of the future. If Painter is it; so be it. If not, look hard now while other teams may be willing to give someone of their future away to be competitive today.

And then make a decision. I think any evaluation based on last year’s performance where Peyton wasn’t sound until nearly mid season and our O-line was a revolving door just isn’t accurate. Way too early to call him a bust, as pointed out earlier, he didn’t get that year of learning was probably expected when he was drafted to be Tarik’s replacement.

Don’t you think too that Peyton has some say in who is guarding his blind side? I can’t imagine him standing for CJ being in there is he truly isn’t at least competent.

BBS, why don’t you ask this question again in a month after the preseason games have been played