Brett Favre officially signs with Minnesota Vikings... and what it means for the Colts
by Brad Wells on Aug 18, 2009 4:08 PM EDT
in NFL General
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PrintI wrote this last week after the Colts v. Vikings pre-season game:
Employment is a very strong incentive. Just ask their coach, Brad Childress, who is coaching for his job this year. If the Vikings do not make the playoffs AND win a playoff game, he's gone. He knows it. The players know it. Fans know it. Brett Favre knows it (which is why we will likely hear his name again after the third pre-season game). The Vikes are a team struggling to create an identity. High intensity in the pre-season can sometimes help with that.
Well, it looks like the Vikings and Favre couldn't wait until the third pre-season game. Today, Brett Favre officially became a Viking just days after they broke training camp. The Vikings are expected to conduct conference shortly.
Daily Norseman is all over the Favrestock 2009!
What does Favre signing with the Vikings mean for the Colts and the NFL in general? Let's talk after the jump...
My opinion on Favre differs from most of the mainstream. Most people dislike Favre now, and those that vehmently defended him (Packers fans) are now the hated rivals for Vikings fans. However, my opinion of Favre stems from one kernel of truth lost on all the anti-Favre spin that mixes in fiction with fact: Brett Favre can still play QB at a very high level, and because he can still do this, he still wants to play.
Joe Montana, Dan Marino, John Elway, and Steve Young all retired because they were done, not necessarily because they wanted to retire. Their bodies simply could not handle the stress of the game, and they were physically unable to play at a high level. With Montana, it was his elbow. With Marino, his legs. With Elway, his arm. With Young, concussions.
At age 39 (soon-to-be 40), Brett Favre can still deliver the football with accuracy and velocity. I watched six NY Jets games last year, and in five of those games they won because Brett Favre was their QB. While some love to point to the Jets 1-4 slump in December as evidence that Favre is over-rated and "done," what many forget is from September to November, Brett Favre was a legit MVP candidate. By late November 2008, the Jets were 8-3, on top of their division, and looked poised for a strong playoff push despite their horrid defense. Then, Favre tore his bicep muscle. The Jets went 1-4, missed the playoffs, and in typical New York fashion... they pointed fingers rather than owned up.
Just FYI, the NY Jets (with virtually the same team, sans Favre) were 4-12 in 2007. In 2008, they were 9-7 with Brett Favre, 8-3 with a healthy Brett Favre. When it is all said and done, Brett Favre can still help a team win football games. In the NFL, that is the bottom line.
With Brett in Minnesota, the Vikings are now the team to beat in the NFC. Despite what some fans will suggest, the Vikings were not going to win anything with Sage Rosenfels or Tarvaris Jackson as the QB. You're high or dumb if you think otherwise. The last six years, QBs named Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, and Tom Brady have won Super Bowls. What does that tell you?
To win the big one in this league, you must have a premier QB. If you don't, then you are wasting your fans' time.
Guys like Rex Grossman, Kurt Warner (age 38), and Matt Hasselbeck can get you to the game, but to win it you must have a premier players under center. Favre, even at age 39, is still in that category.
So, how does this affect the Colts?
Well, for one, Favre will likely continue his streak of consecutive games played, meaning Peyton Manning has little chance to catch Favre in this category. And while the Vikings do not face the Colts during the regular season, they do face the Ravens and the Steelers. A Vikings team with Favre has a better chance to beat those two AFC teams than one without Favre.
It remains to be seen if Favre signing with Minnesota puts them over the top, but one thing is certain: The Vikes are a better football team with Favre at QB. While some may disagree, they really cannot do so without looking like Favre haters. The bottom line in this league is winning friggin' football games, and Brett Favre does indeed know how to win.
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OK
But I really gotta wonder if a 39 year old QB will be able to get on the same page with his offense and receivers quick enough skipping this far into preseason. Is the offensive terminology and scheme different than he is used to? Can he get timing down in time for the regular season. I have no ill will where Favre is concerned, but I do have doubts about whether he can get the details under control for the regular season.
Not an issue
The Vikings run a virtual carbon copy of the offense Favre knows thru and thru, not to mention, they’ll cater to him on the offense at his own whim.
The years Favre was successful in Green Bay he had a quality running attack, decent tight end play, and servicable WR’s. He has that and more in Minnesota.
This is the team to watch in the NFC. Carolina and New York may be front runners, but this will be the dark horse team no wants to play, and will be a 3rd seed or better in the NFC come playoffs…
by DevilsReject on Aug 18, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Same offense
Favre made the comment yesterday at the press conference he can run this offense in his sleep.
Farve needs to hang it up.
How much of his crap are teams going to take. Click on this site below to BET against the vikes this year.
Click Here!
rotator cuff tear
The wheels are coming off this guy. He has a rotator cuff tear. I don’t expect Favre to last the whole season. I just hope he stays healthy enough for the game in Lambeau field because that’s gonna be a damn brawl. Oh what will the cheeseheads do…
Had rotator cuff tear
Which is why he played so badly at the end of last season, why he retired after the season, and also why he decided not to join the Vikes at the beginning of camp. All the while continued his throwing workouts, recovering from his injury. Once fully recovered, and camp was over for the Vikes he made his decision to come back. He simply didn’t want to play injured or have to go through camp, obviously the Vikes were ok with that, because they just let it happen.
Are they changing their story?
I thought he had a biceps tendon issue last year. My understanding is that the rotator cuff issue, which is just a partial tear (not that that’s good), is new, and Andrews gave him advice similar to the ARod hip thing, which is that it’s no fun and not perfect, but you can play through the season if you want.
I’ve yet to see any article that’s clear about this stuff through this latest round of Favre news.
Favre can still play, but for how long?
I agree that Favre can still play, but the question is whether he can last a full season. Rosenfels played pretty good in the Colts preseason game. The Vikings definitely need to hang onto him in case Favre goes down with an injury like last year.
by ColtsFanInEnemyTerritory on Aug 18, 2009 5:26 PM EDT reply actions
Rosenfels is a joke!
Remember the Texans Colts game last year, when Rosenfels was the Texans QB, and handed the game to us. Maybe Favre can’t play a full season, but you have to admit a big part of that was no workouts before the regular. This year he has been working out for a month or two before in an effort to have more stamina and get himself in football shape.
Really only one of his plays was bad (though it was quite the disaster)
The stripsack was just an amazing play by Mathis. There might not be another DE in the league that could have covered that much ground and had the awareness and timing to dive for the ball as Rosenfels pulled it back to throw.
The Rosenchopper was a massive failure on Sage. He tried to do way too much. That turnover was on him.
The last turnover was basically an end of game hail mary. The Colts had taken the lead, there was something like 40 seconds to play and he needed to throw deep against a Colts D made to not allow that.
Sage has played well enough the last 3 years to live down one epic brainfart.
It's shocking what you can miss sometimes. The amazing color changing card trick.
by shake n bake on Aug 19, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
his counting stats are pretty awful though
Which is why people laugh at me when I insist that he’s a capable QB.
But Rosencopter aside, most of his picks come when they’re throwing because they’re behind, he’s accurate in a short-pass west coast offense, and is thus the perfect compliment to the Vikings, which is why their Personnel guy went after him. Favre has a better arm and will be better with the play action deep threat stuff, but he’s also much more inclined to try to do too much and screw them over. At least when Sage took risks in the past it was usually because he had to. Favre just goes and does dumb shit because it’s fun.
I’m pissed off about this stuff because I made a contrarian bet that the Vikings would be excellent with Sage and that he’d outperform Eli in everything except yards and TDs, and now I have no way to prove it and win the bet and put the idiot irrational Eli backer in his place.
The Mathis play was so awesome that I asked someone to photoshop a cape on him
and someone (AussieColtsfan) did it.
It's shocking what you can miss sometimes. The amazing color changing card trick.
by shake n bake on Aug 19, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
That is freaking awesome.
Now a proud annoyance on Stampede Blue, 18to88, Indy Football Report, and Phil B's blog.
Man, I need a life...
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: The 57 on Heinz ketchup bottles represents the number of varieties of pickles the company once had. Why does a company have 57 varieties of pickles? Who knows.
On paper the Vikings look like the team to beat
but so did the Cowboys a few seasons back. Team chemistry is a very important to any team. If Favre’s presence ends up dividing the Vikings’ locker room (which I believe will happen), then they might self-destruct.
"Peyton Manning flow, I just go no huddle."
- Lil' Wayne, Put Some Keys on That
This is true.
What about the guys who have already got something going with Rosenfels? Now they have to switch gears and learn Favre’s ways. If I was Sage (weird name for a QB), I’d be mad as hell.
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
Division less likely here than in NY
Favre has friends, in opponents that he faced while in G.B. People he gets along with and knows. Things have the possibility of division, but are far less likely because of Favre’s friendships.
Now that you guys know that Brett Favre is America
I present you his official theme song
(disclaimer: contains excessive profanity)
I'm not a big fan of profanity, but I see what you're saying........
Nice metaphoric theme song.
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
Not this again...
I feel like we had this argument five times last year. Name ONE game they won solely because of Favre. There isn’t one.
You need to give this stuff up. If you think Favre was a legitimate MVP candidate you’ve been fooling us all along with your football knowledge. When the Jets were winning he was basically Kerry Collins. Schottenheimer neutered him, he never threw a pass over 10 yards downfield, and as such he wasn’t turning the ball over and his YPA and completion percentages were great. I’m not saying he was bad. I even admire his patience. But he was no MVP, and at no point did he carry that team. He was excellent in the New England game, and that’s about it. They won because they had a strong running game and defense for a while (til fatty Jenkins ran out of gas mid-year), and Favre played with caution (excepting that BS throw in week 1 that he got lucky with). Drop 2008 Chad Pennington in on that team and through 11 games they would likely also have been 8-3 (with a loss to NE but a win over Oakland). Not that 2008 Pennington was awful, of course. But he was the alternative, and Favre was pretty demonstrably equal to him.
As for the end of the year, his torn tendon had nothing to do with it. His apologists used it as an excuse at the end of the year and people like you bought it. I’ve had the same injury and it’s annoying but doesn’t affect anything. He even said it didn’t affect his throwing, just hurt afterwards. Medical experts have said the same thing. Just as QBs get too much credit when things go well, they get too much blame when they don’t. He didn’t magically start to suck at the end, but he did decline because a) he was old and mostly b) the rest of the team did too. The running, the defense, it all went downhill. Suddenly he felt he had to do more. He started making stupid decisions and taking dumb risks. All the things he avoided early in the year. Maybe a few of his picks were due to a fatigued arm or age-related weakness, but most of them were just dumb throws. Not entirely his fault, since he started having to play from behind more, but still – not something you can just write off to age and a minor injury.
The 2007 Jets were quite a bit different and less experienced than the 2008 team. Are you kidding? They made several major acquisitions, most notably Faneca and Jenkins. Jenkins was that team MVP early on. As I recall, Shake made these and several other points some time last season. And let’s not forget the historically easy schedule, which you yourself have pointed out in discussions about Chad Pennington’s level of credit for the 11-5 Miami record.
I’m pretty obviously not a fan of Favre and his abilities. But you’re on the opposite end of the spectrum. You are greatly overrating his play in 2008 and ignoring dozens of other factors that led to that team’s improvement. Saying Favre turned the around is as stupid as saying Pennington added ten wins to Miami and thus should’ve been MVP over Manning. It’s even more ridiculous that you consider him elite yet mock Kurt Warner.
As for this impact on the Vikings, all they need is for him to be accurate. They’re a very strong team and would’ve been great with Rosenfels. As long as Favre doesn’t try to do too much, you’re right – he can help them. But let’s cool it with the praise.
Thanks for calling me high or dumb though, especially when citing the Skip Bayless-level argument of “you can’t win without an elite QB.” None of the QBs that won the 2000-2002 Super Bowls were elite (at the time, at least, in Brady’s case). And of course there’s that whole issue of assigning all the responsibility of a team game to one individual…
Oh, but “Brett Favre knows how to win.” My bad. That’s why the Vikings will be better off. Good closing. Any other lazy cliches you want to use instead of facts?
by willyduer on Aug 18, 2009 5:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
one other thing...
Elway, who won two consecutive super bowls to end his career, couldn’t play at a high level and was forced to retire?
And you imply that others are high.
You’re just as arrogant as I am, only you’re making stuff up, so you look like a fool.
But turning 40 might help him finish strong this year...
2004-2008, final 5 games of each season:
Games: 20
Completion Percentage: 56.1
Yards Per Game: 211.4
Touchdowns: 13
Interceptions: 34
Passer Rating: 59.9
Plus the colossally stupid interception that gave the NFC title game away, when he threw it to the only one of four options that wasn’t open and (thank God) helped ruin the Patriot unbeaten season.
What minor injury can we all blame for the previous three years?
Wasnt much of a factor those year's though
Elway was a shell of himself those last 2 years, and while yes he did win 2 SB’s, he was only there because of Terrell Davis and Shannon Sharpe, not because of his arm.
Marino made the playoffs virtually every year he was in the league, and even his final year was competitive, but ultimately the pain did him in.
Just because a guy wins, doesn’t mean they weren’t in pain…
1998 Denver Broncos 13 12 210 356 59.0 2,806 7.9 22 10
1997 Denver Broncos 16 16 280 502 55.8 3,635 7.2 27 11
Both his final seasons he really did not light it up, and while yes he won, he wasn’t the QB he was even a few years earlier….
by DevilsReject on Aug 18, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to get into another argument, but those numbers are basically right in line with his entire career. I didn’t know til just now when I looked it up, but he had a shockingly low career completion percentage. Almost makes me feel bad for mocking Eli. (Nah…) His % dropped off a bit from 93-96, but otherwise the only major difference is total yards in 98, when he only played in 13 games.
I’m not saying he wasn’t feeling it. He was old, so I’m certain that he was. And that’s why he retired. But to say he wasn’t playing at a high level while Favre did in 08, as in the main post, is misrepresenting the truth.
totally agree
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha...OK" - Tom Brady
by BlueMark1821 on Aug 19, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow!
Brett Favre is not an elite QB in the NFL anymore, but he’s better than anything the Jets had, and better than anything the Vikings have.
Yea I’m sure you have an arm like Favre and the injury affects you exactly the same way as it did him. Your career is what, and how does that injury affect you in any way like it would Favre?. My father has a rotator cuff injury, and the one thing he can’t do now is throw. You believe for one minute that he is going to blame his play on an injury. A guy that is the symbol of what it is to be the iron man of the NFL. You may not be high, and obviously not stupid, but just wrong on this subject. An injury can affect two different people very differently. Suddenly his play goes south, and it just so happens there is an injury, that he has never had before??? And just because he takes the blame on himself alone, you say the injury is just a way for the apologists to free him of blame?
True the 2008 team was a better team over all than the 2007. The other people they picked up were huge!
As well you think you can discount Brady’s eliteness, because it was the beginning of it? Everything has a beginning, middle, and a end. Favre is at his end, if not totally past it. Even if he is a total bust, I would rather have him turnover the ball 20+ times for me this year, then Sage Rosenfels. At least Favre will make me money. But that’s ok, cause you came up with 3 years of successful teams that in your mind weren’t led by elite QB’s. 3 years out of how many?
Nice try.
- so Favre was better than Pennington last year? That’s news to all of us. And the Jets had him.
- last year it was a bicep tendon issue, not the rotator cuff. I also have rotator cuff issues, that’s a different story. The rotator cuff thing is his built in excuse for this year. It’s actually much more legit.
- his play went south because he made bad decisions. An injury would mean he was losing velocity and missing short on everything. He was missing short even early in the year. His picks went up because he played dumber. And in the previous years when he also tailed off in the end he was healthy. There’s nothing wrong with getting old. But for people to expect him to be fine because last year he had the bicep thing is ridiculous. He’s 40. He’s going to have the stamina of a 40 year old.
- 2001 rookie Tom Brady was not elite. He was absolutely just a limited playbook, game manager, don’t screw up and let the D shut down the Rams type QB. It’s not an insult. If it upsets you that I call him that, let’s just rephrase the question – do you need Elite QB play to win a super bowl? It helps, but you do not. Trent Dilfer in 00, Tom Brady 01, and Brad Johnson 02 did not play like elite QBs yet their teams still won. Football is a team sport, and QBs get too much blame for losses and too much credit for wins. That’s the point.
Money or no money, the fact that you’d rather sign up for 20+ turnovers from your QB over a guy who would be content to calmly hand off to AP and sustain long drives makes you kind of an idiot.
Won't last the season
Favre is no longer play effectively for a 16-game stretch, let alone the playoffs. The Vikings are not NFC favorites.
Where can I get HIS jersey?
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
OMG, I just told my dad that I think Madden will be coming out of retirement too!
"Peyton Manning flow, I just go no huddle."
- Lil' Wayne, Put Some Keys on That
Favre isn't Brett Favre!!!! anymore
he’s less and less able to get away with his gunslinger ways and his “success” in New York was throwning Pennington-esque dink and dunks. Last year Pennington averaged more yards per completion. 5 of Pennington’s 6 years as the Jets starter he had a higher YPC than Favre last year.
Favre can be a ok game manager at this point in his career, but if he tries to play with the S on his chest it’ll get very ugly very fast.
It's shocking what you can miss sometimes. The amazing color changing card trick.
by shake n bake on Aug 18, 2009 7:22 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The Vikes are absolutely a team to beat if he does play that way. The thing is, I’m not convinced he won’t try to play with the S on his chest, given that Chilly basically just gave him the keys to the franchise.
Apparently Sage has looked like shit in practice, so that’s why Childress panicked and called him. So maybe my confidence in the guy is misplaced. Still, not hard to be confident in a guy that is generally accurate in the kind of offense they need their QB to run when they have AP and that defense. I’d say he should demand his release and go play somewhere else, except I don’t see anywhere else as a good fit for him. Denver might like him, but who the hell would want to go play there right now?
Right
Vikings have an average line. They gave up a lot of sacks last year.
Pressure on QB + Gunslinger mentality = A lot of “gunslings”
A lot of gunslings (INTs) = not as many wins as expected and teammates turn on Favre and complain.
Teammates turning on each other = another non Super Bowl season for the Vikings.
"I'm looking for Ray Finkle....and a clean pair of shorts."
Vikings are up there with the Patriots and Chargers
For my most hated teams for signing my most hated non-Patriot.
Favre is a douche, has always been a douche, and is the most overrated player in the league. The Vikings are definitely not the team to beat. They may be better because of Favre, but the Giants, Eagles and Falcons are the teams to beat in the NFC. Favre is not as good as Eli, McNabb or Matt Ryan anymore, and the Vikings defense is good but not on the level of the Giants. I’m biased because I want Favre to go away. Move to Turkmenistan and never talk again, Favre. He is a selfish player, and it isn’t a surprise that one of the more clueless organizations signed him.
"I saw a commercial on late night TV, it said,'Forget everything you know about slipcovers.' So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were."
-Mitch Hedberg
Also
There is no chance in hell he plays all 16 games. He had a torn rotator cuff, and that won’t go away easy. He will either suck or miss a decent amount of time. I think it will be both. I’m still saying the Packers are winning the NFC North.
"I saw a commercial on late night TV, it said,'Forget everything you know about slipcovers.' So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were."
-Mitch Hedberg
"Just FYI, the NY Jets (with virtually the same team, sans Favre) were 4-12 in 2007."
i have to disagree with that.
DT Kris Jenkins is acquired for a third and fifth round draft pick on February 29, 2008
OG Alan Faneca signed five-year, $40 million contract on March 1, 2008
OT Damien Woody signed five-year, $25 million contract on March 2, 2008
DE/LB Calvin Pace signed six-year, $42 million contract on March 3, 2008
that’s $142 million and $74 million in guaranteed money spaced out over four players. i wouldn’t exactly call that “virtually the same team”. that’s like saying the 2009 Yankees with the signings of C.C. Sabathia, Mark Teixieria, and A.J. Burnett are “virtually the same team” as the 2008 Yankees.
the Jets upgraded a lot more than just the QB spot going into last season.
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Aug 18, 2009 9:28 PM EDT reply actions
is every one stupid?
where is our future? FAVRE AT QB.GET A LIFE , CONCERNED MINN FAN.
by stablewarrior3 on Aug 18, 2009 11:35 PM EDT reply actions
Stephen Colbert had the best line I've heard on this (next to Peytonsyourdaddy's post about his mother)
Congratulations Brett Favre, for setting the NFL record for incomplete retirements.
It's shocking what you can miss sometimes. The amazing color changing card trick.
DAMN
All of a sudden, a 40 year old is the key for the Vikes to at least win a playoff game.
The team to beat? Is Favre at his 40 a premium QB? And now, the Jets miserable success was all Favre’s merit but all the losses and failures aint his fault?
Besides, when you say “Im retiring” YOU STAY RETIRED…there was a good reason you decided to retire. Then you come back after all that crying and crap. Now, if you say"Im retiring…again" THEN YOU STAY OUT FOR GOOD THIS TIME. What kind of a jerk this guy is to retire, twice, then say he will not come back and then he comes back? Again, he shouldve retired when he lost to the Giants in the 07 NFCCG but no, he is Favre…THE BRETT FAVRE so he can come and do whatever he wants, and people still applaud him for that
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha...OK" - Tom Brady
Now some of the Vikings resenting Favre's presence
Sportscenter just reported that many of them are pissed that Favre missed all of the training camp, then arrived to practice on the owner’s private jet and in a Cadillac Escalade so that he could take snaps with the first string offense. Yep, the Vikings are definitely gonna be the team to beat.
"Peyton Manning flow, I just go no huddle."
- Lil' Wayne, Put Some Keys on That
Exactly
That guy is doing whatever he wants and the worst thing is, the Vikes have no problem with it. Obviously, you are pissed that just because its Brett “Retirements” Favre he can skip training camp and still, at his 40, he will be the starting QB.
"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha...OK" - Tom Brady
by BlueMark1821 on Aug 19, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Great way to be part of the team, imo.
/sarcasm
what a selfish dumbass…
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Aug 19, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
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