Gonzo Down; Marvin Not The Answer
by KingRichard on Sep 14, 2009 9:49 AM EDT
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I guess it was only a matter of time before those thoughts came racing into our collective heads; should Polian call Marvin? In my opinion the answer is a big, fat, resounding NO!
Gonzo's knee injury is an unfortunate break for the Colts in this very young season. The Colts were starting off the year on a good foot; injuries were at a minimum and everyone was in good spirits and eager to start this new era of Colts football, the Caldwell era. But the football gods would not let us Colts fans go long without stabbing us in the heart from afar. Without even being touched, Gonzo fell to the turf clutching his knee in apparent agony. Peyton Manning, among other Colts and Jaguars players, were in utter disbelief at what they saw.
"I'm sick about Gonzalez, whatever his injury is going to be," Manning said. "I didn't see it, but I actually asked (Jacksonville cornerback Rashean) Mathis, 'What happened?'
"He said, 'I didn't even touch him. He went down.' I've got a sick feeling about that. He's worked so hard this offseason. I certainly hope it's not a season-ending injury. I hope he's back soon. He's a big part of our offense."
In Peter King's Monday Morning QB, he specifically states that he asked Bill Polian would NOT reach out to Marvin even if Gonzo's knee injury will keep him sidelined for more than a month.
13. (tie) Indianapolis (1-0). Bill Polian told me after the game that the Colts, even if Anthony Gonzalez's knee injury is more than a one-month deal, wouldn't consider bringing Marvin Harrison out of retirement. Tony Dungy said something interesting on our NBC set: That Polian's comment says to him that Peyton Manning is comfortable with rookie Austin Collie in the slot and Pierre Garcon as the outside bookend for Reggie Wayne.
For whatever reasons Polian has for not wanting to contact Marvin I agree with them, regardless of what they are. You have to remember Colts fans, the Colts offered Marvin a chance to stay, they wanted him to stay. It was Marvin who decided he didn't want to stay with the team due to financial reasons, even though he's amassed quite a sum of money throughout his career here in Indianapolis. Call me bitter if you like, but that just doesn't sit well with me. His unwillingness to come to grips with his age and proneness to injuries is selfish, but maybe that's in his nature. Maybe that selfishness is what made him such a great receiver. Who knows?
Nevertheless, we don't even know when the last time Marvin touched a football or if he's in shape. So assuming Gonzo's injury keeps him sidelined for the short term (2 weeks or so), it wouldn't be worth the hassle nor the money to sign Marvin and then inevitably cut him once Gonzo returns healthy. My guess is that would seriously piss Marvin off and leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
For now, I agree with Polian's decision. He could be full of it and is talking to Marvin as you read this, but I doubt it. We have two very talented receivers who will fill in admirably. Let's allow things to take their course and see what happens.
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Agreed!!
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
In Polian We Trust
This would have to be one of my top five sporting highlights of all time.
by AussieColtsFan on Sep 14, 2009 10:33 AM EDT reply actions
Give Garcon a chance....
He may drop one early as he gets into a rythym, but he has size and speed. I think he’ll earn Mannings trust and see 4-5 passes for 50-80 and one TD a game avgerage at least.
Pressure is somethig you feel when you don't know what you're doing!
-Chuck Knoll
Agree
You can’t panic about Gonzo’s injury. Peyton will just have to adjust, and work with Collie and Garcon even harder. No Gonzo for 3 quarters definately changed our game plan yesterday. It’s going to hurt not having him. I’m hoping it’s not as bad as it looks.
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
I'm not sure Marvin deserves to be bashed for setting a high requirement for him to sign
NFL players put massive amounts of abuse on their bodies. Think of the retired greats that hobble onto the stage at the HOF in their 40s and 50s. If I had made enough money that I could live comfortably as a small business owner in my home neighborhood I would require a sizable chunk of change to put myself through that abuse (both short term and adding to the long term).
That doesn’t mean I think they should sign him. He’s too expensive for what his skills have diminished to, but I would call what he’s doing smart, not selfish.
It's not just your perceptions that can be wrong. Even your memory is often incomplete or possibly flat out wrong.
Well
I don’t think it was as much “bashing” as it was bitterness over Marvin’s unwillingness to renegotiate his contract. His cap hit for 2009 was ludicrous. The option was to re-sign him to a lower cap hit, or cut him. Marvin refused to sign for a lower amount, and the result is Indy cutting him and absorbing a rather substantial cap hit. I’m not sure the ammount, but it is in the millions for this year. That is a lot of “dead” cap the provented the team from signing another free agent (like, perhaps, Larry Foote).
So, because of that, I can understand a little anger towards Marvin. His decision was clearly stupid. He is not going to play this year, and likely his career is over. He is simply asking for too much money, and is wanting guarnatees that he start. Teams aren’t going to do that.
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well looking at the bright side
if the league goes uncapped next year the Colts have a little extra change in their pockets to spend from the cap hit of Marv. If they so choose to.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
The amount of $$$ those playes make is ridicolous...
So much so that Brian Griese even said that he made too much money. I know this because my family knows the Griese’s. : )
by MasterRWayne on Sep 14, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Bad Contract for Marvin
Sure Marvin has money already but that’s not the point. If you know the ins and outs of what happened with his departure, I feel like you would be on his side. This was a stereotypical time when the player got screwed by the orgainization. When he restructured his deal (in 05?), he took a large paycut (I think he only took 1 mil the first year of it) as a favor to the team because of salary cap issues. His contract was very back heavy and he got released 2 years before his 60 million dollar deal was supposed to be over…so the Colts screwed Marvin out of more than 25 million dollars. I think it is bad ethics on the part of Irsay, bad salary cap planning on Polian, but also the business of the NFL (don’t get me wrong, i love and trust Polian and Irsay). There were many experts who thought that Marvin’s 60 million dollar contract was actually a bad one, which put all the power in the hands of the team, and he would only be making a fraction of that amount….they were right.
Then they ask him to stay after probably offering him an insulting amount of money, considering he played for peanuts when he was probowling. I think the Colts owe him some dollars. I am glad Jeff Saturday stayed, even though he is probably making an insultingly low amount of money for his position and performance.
The players union needs to protect players from having to sign such back-heavy deals like Marvin’s.
Lucas Berridge
Billecheat
atleast we are better than the Pats at this. They have no ethics and regard to most of their players (ie: trading Seymour to Oakland with 1 year left on his deal), or pushing Teddy into retirement, etc). These are people that helped win them cheater superbowls and they are just dumping them off on the side of the road.
Lucas Berridge
re: "pushing Teddy into retirement"
Actually that struck me as a move that HAD class… sounded like there was not going to be room for Teddy in the new D (either because of age/ability or because of the scheme), and they offered to let him retire under his own terms rather than cut him like a piece of dog meat.
I do, however, agree with you on the Seymour trade.
How can you not love a team that does this?
there was 37 million left on the deal (in cap money)
but, 20 million of that was signing bonus and money converted to signing bonus that Marvin already got.
So there was really 3 years 17 million left on his deal.
Pretty much all NFL contracts are backloaded. The players rarely see that money, but it still benefits them because it’s an incentive for the team to get a new long term deal done with the player. When Albert Haynesworth doesn’t see the full 100million on the deal he signed it more than likely won’t be because the Redskins screwed him, it’ll be because the contract was built in a way that the last year or two were never meant to be played on. They were just there to give Fat Al and his agent a ego boost, the team some room to spread the cap hit and give both sides an incentive to get a new deal down when that time comes around.
It's not just your perceptions that can be wrong. Even your memory is often incomplete or possibly flat out wrong.
by shake n bake on Sep 14, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Next Man Up!
I feel comfortable with the group we have, but depending on how long Gonzo is out, I’m really worried about depth. We’ll be seeing a lot of two-tight end sets. I hope they put Clark and Tamme out there because it will make for a faster offfense than if we have Robinson on the field.
In Moore and Peyton we trust….
That's what backups are for
Why bother calling Harrison unless the management wants to admit that they could not run an effective training camp and find quality players for key positions?
Isn’t this what management and coaches are supposed to do, find and establish quality starters and backups?
The practice squad has receivers on it and there were other recievers in camp that got cut.
Am I to believe that Harrison, who at this time is an aging speculative talent, is the best option for this team when they just finished establishing a roster and practice squad?
Either the team has quality backups or it doesn’t, and if it doesn’t then people didn’t do their jobs.
Depth Chart
When I saw Gonzo go down I would have to admit Marvin came to mind. There are only 4 wide receivers on this team. It is obvious we need another wide receiver and Marvin knows the system. We also have 4 tight ends, and 2 kickers. I think I would cut loose Santi or Andrus and bring in another wide out or possibly Matt Giordano. Giordano doesn’t answer the wide out dilemma but it gives the Colts depth in the secondary, and special teams would be solid. Just a thought.
Already answered this one....
http://www.stampedeblue.com/2009/9/14/1029419/poll-should-the-colts-bring-back-88
No reason to..
bring back Harrison. Don’t get me wrong, I love Marv as a player. However, this is the PERFECT storm for Collie and Garcon. Both players are now being thrown into live fire and forcing them to play. This not only gives us battle tested players (Gonzo in 2007) but it improves their overall play overnight. These are guys who were predicted to be 3rd WRs and could now become the #2 and #3 guys…. I mean, Collie is a better faster Stokely, and Garcon could be a Reggie Wayne in the making.
Now lets look at the schedule…
Miami, Arizona, Seattle, Tennessee, bye week, St. Louis, San Francisco, and Houston
The Colts do not need Gonzo in any of those games. As long as Clark and Wayne do well, and the running game is efficient, if not dominant, the Colts should realistically only face one difficult game against Tennessee. The rest, should all be W’s….as those teams cannot match up against the Colts on defense….
Collie and Garcon played well all things considered. It was a division game against a team that knows us very well. With more reps with Gonzo out, I expect they’ll be involved in the game alot more in the coming weeks. We saw this with Gonzo when Harrison went down, and I think the Colts will be better for it.
by DevilsReject on Sep 14, 2009 2:48 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd this...and agree 1000%
Pressure is somethig you feel when you don't know what you're doing!
-Chuck Knoll
pay for Marvin
If they wanted to hire Marvin I am wondering if he would take the money that count towards Colts’ salary cap. That’s a lot of dead money, about 6 mil according to cotscap.net.
Why can’t they just give Marvin the money and have him earn it?
Would he play one year for 6 milions? I would say yes.
Nope
Doesn’t work that way. That 6 million is his previous contract. he would have to sign a new one.
He’s not worth it. Let the young guys play. Part of the NFL is knowing when to say Bye.
Cut Jennings, sign Taj off the PS
There. Young player, can contribute on special teams, had a great preseason, knows the system. Give him a shot. Jennings does nothing.
"Brett Favre was a man who thought he was retired, but he knew it wouldn't last."
Career Ender for Gonzo
I hate to be doom and gloom, but when someone goes down like that, that is their body saying, “you just played your last football game…” Maybe not Gonzo’s last, but his last game of relevnace….I’m sorry to say that, but its true.
I hope I’m wrong. At least he can go back to law school.
You obviously have never hurt a major joint...
I hyper-extended/dislocated/relocated my knee in junior high….all in about 60 seconds of time…. and I went down just like Gonzo did. I was out for a weeks, but not the end of the world. Essentially he went one way, and his knee said I cant do it, and he fell…..
Doesn’t mean much of anything….and all the reports are of a strained ligament, not a tear. In all honesty, if they follow my suggestion, I’d keep him out until after the Texans game…by then it’ll be abundantly clear if he’s done for the year…
by DevilsReject on Sep 14, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
The Texans game?!
That’s quite a while to wait and see.
Disagree on the timeline
if he is ready to go for the Texans game, I want him back by the Texans game.
Remember when they waited until the Chargers playoff game to bring back Marvin in 07? He was too rusty, fumbled on his first reception, and was a major factor in losing that game. I would like Gonzo back in time to be in rhythm by the Pats game so I would rather see him active vs the Texans if at all possible.
"Put him on the board. Houshmazilli....got it. CHAMPIONSHIP!"
um
the reports are no tears.
besides. Marlin Jackson dropped untouched last year with torn ligaments and it wasn’t his last down of football.
It's not just your perceptions that can be wrong. Even your memory is often incomplete or possibly flat out wrong.
by shake n bake on Sep 14, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
NFL Network
The network that i watched all summer to get my fix of football is loosing my interests with ignorant people such as jamie dukes and deion sanders! all they do is denounce the colts standings because we went through a “coaching” change. Caldwel and Dungy are one in the same and the thought we would diminish for the loss? Granted Dungy was a great coach and i will miss him…. the thought that we are suddenly not a contender pisses me off! Sorry but as long as we have 18 in the back field we always have a chance! The network also decided the colts ultimatley had to call marvin back or else we had no second reciever. Do they forget that they so happily reminded us he was on the down side of his career and had lost a step? Get some people on there that actually know what they are talkin about
Haven't you heard?
Manning is a one and done quarterback for Super Bowls. They say it on the networks so…. IT MUST BE TRUE!!!!! O.O
Deion Sanders
is the biggest idiot on the planet. I’ve never heard him say one good thing about the Colts. He’s always derogating them for one reason or another.
More serious than we think
I was never sold on Gonzalez as a deuce anyway. He’s slow and undersized and he drops big passes, and now he gets hurt on the first possession of the year without getting hit? Pathetic. Can’t expect much from Ohio State guys, though.
I still can’t believe how ho-hum everyone is about this though. I’d say there’s a reason for concern. WR was already a very thin position for us before the year. As it is, there are only three healthy ones on the roster, and only one who has any appreciable experience. Collie looks OK, but are we really gonna put him or Garcon on the other side to START?
To think, this would have been solved if we had picked Nicks in the first round like I was hoping.
I just hope the running game looks better than it did this week. That will play a large part in how serious this is. But I wouldn’t waste any time if I was Polian. I’d go out and get someone like Drew Bennett, Ike Hilliard or Justin McCareins. Not exactly great choices at No. 2, but they’re veterans and could help with depth.
All I’m saying is, I think they need to do SOMETHING and not just blow this off.
And
Obviously I’m not Polian and shouldn’t presume to know anything about the business. It’s just some concern as a fan.
I DO agree that Marvin is not the answer. I think both sides are done with each other, and as much as i loved Marvin, he’s finished.
he ran a 4.44 at the combine
and averaged 15.7 yards a catch as a rookie.
Despite his skin tone he can run.
It's not just your perceptions that can be wrong. Even your memory is often incomplete or possibly flat out wrong.
by shake n bake on Sep 14, 2009 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
He also
dropped three passes against the Chargers in the Wild Card game. Not that it was the only thing that lost it for them, but it certainly would have helped.
70% catch rate both seasons
big samples tell you more than small ones.
It's not just your perceptions that can be wrong. Even your memory is often incomplete or possibly flat out wrong.
by shake n bake on Sep 15, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t agree with Jake’s original assessment, but I understand his point, which you are missing. His catch % for the past two seasons is irrelevant if he drops key passes in crunch time. We don’t need another Marvin around here.
Hit em with your groin!
.
Couldn’t disagree more with what jake steel said. AG is a legit #2 as long as 18 is in there. IDC what college he went to, and there have been literally hundreds of nfl players that have been injured without being hit, to think that he’s somehow less valuable is asinine.
And did anyone, just say “we dont need another Marvin around here”? Cause I would kill for a 26 year old Marvin around here. How quick we forget.
I'm saying in the whole sample he catches an outstanding portion of the passes thrown to him
I don’t put a lot of emphasis on one game where he didn’t.
If we get a few more games on the books and it’s still an issue I’ll reconsider.
It's not just your perceptions that can be wrong. Even your memory is often incomplete or possibly flat out wrong.
by shake n bake on Sep 15, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Am I crazy
Didn’t Gonzalez have a broken thumb in that game?
Or was that the previous year's Pats game I'm thinking of
Anyway, I think a lot of people got the idea then that Gonzo wasn’t clutch; hardly fair.
"To think, this would have been solved if we had picked Nicks in the first round like I was hoping."
Collie is 10 times the WR Nicks could ever hope to be. You’re nuts.
by the_iowa_hawkeye on Sep 15, 2009 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Ohio State guys
You just can’t count on them, can you….I mean what has Santonio Holmes ever done anyways…..?
Come on buddy.
"Put him on the board. Houshmazilli....got it. CHAMPIONSHIP!"
Nicks?
did you not notice that he got hurt in the opener to? so therefor we would be in the same problem anyways. and for your sake i certainly hope your not a michigan fan lol sorry but gonzalez is a beast! and he will be missed
by WE BELIEVE 111 on Sep 14, 2009 10:53 PM EDT reply actions
Your comments are moronic!!
You probably didn’t even go to college…ignorant!
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
BOOOO GATORS!
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Sep 15, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I went to University of Texas, guys
Does that settle it? I don’t like any Big 10…err 11… schools.
Michigan??
Time for you to pick a new team. Michigan is a joke junior. Try somebody like Ohio State.
Here's a possibility
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4475835
Big mistake by the Eagles, Baskett’s legit. 6’4 220. And he’s married to one of the Girls Next Door so that’s cool.
Jim Sorgi runs a 4.6 40. That's all I've got to say about that.
Only way I would do it
Would be if he could be dealt by Week 6 after Gonzalez gets closer to playing. If Baskett would play well it could even improve his trade stock and have the Colts move up in the draft. I’m not sure if they could trade a player in that short of a time frame though.
"Brett Favre was a man who thought he was retired, but he knew it wouldn't last."
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