Terry Bradshaw worried that people will think Peyton Manning is better than him
by Brad Wells on Jan 11, 2010 5:29 PM EST
in Bad Journalism
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The title is the only reason I can think of for these comments from Terry Bradshaw:
What did I think of Peyton winning his fourth MVP? I’m not sure it meant as much to him as much it would have meant to Drew Brees, who has never gotten it. I like to spread this award around. I mean, you could give it to Peyton every year, but how could you not give it to Brees? What does he have to do to get it? What does Chris Johnson down in Tennessee have to do to get it? I always ask myself who stepped up and had incredible years. It would have been great for the NFL, because Drew is every bit as good a guy and a player as Peyton is.
I'm stunned at how ridiculous this sounds on the surface. To follow-up on what 18to88 said on the quote from Bradhaw, the MVP voters are now supposed to factor in how the candidates feel? Drew Brees should get it because it would mean more to him? What?
And to answer Terry's question, in order for Drew Brees to win an MVP award, he has to not suck as he did in his team's December loses to the Cowboys and the Buccaneers. In order for Chris Johnson to win an MVP award, he has to do more to get his team in the playoffs. 80% of the MVP voters saw things that way, as did 65% of our bloggers here at SB Nation.
Oh, and I don't know anyone who thinks that Drew Brees "is every bit as good a guy and a player as Peyton is." Saints fans don't even think that.
Terry Bradshaw must have been drunk when he wrote this. If he was sober and within his faculties, someone get this guy's head in a cat scanner. I'm thinking long, undiagnosed case of post-concussion brain trauma might be the only reason left as to why Bradshaw would write something like that.
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To be voted Most Valuable Player
You have to get the voters to value you. That’s all.
Honestly, at the end of the day it’s just another popularity contest. We like to think that the voters are taking an impartial view of the whole season, and I’m sure many of them are doing that or at least think they are. But there may also be those who, like Bradshaw, apparently, want to talk about their feelings and give it to the guy who makes them feel the fuzziest inside. That’s their call. Fortunately for us Peyton fans we seem to agree with about 80% of the voters this year.
Also fortunately, none of this will distract Peyton from the real goal of another Super Bowl. Let everybody else count their money, the Colts still have cards to play.
"The best defensive player is the sideline." - Trevor Pryce, on how to stop Peyton Manning
Oh Terry...Terry, Terry, Terry
Terry Bradshaw – the #1 reason I watch the CBS pregame coverage instead of Fox.
"I've never taken for granted what we've had, not for one single game, not one single practice, ... I've truly been blessed." - Peyton Manning
I ignore Terry
I love Strahan and Howie, so I watch…
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jan 11, 2010 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
I really enjoy all of the guys
I laugh at how much of an idiot Bradshaw is though…
Peyton Manning makes it Wayne on them hoes!!!!
Sorry Chris Johnson can't play defense.
Offensive Coordinator > Guard > Tackle > DE > OLB > RB > WR > CB
Neither did Peyton in 2003 and 2004
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi
by gizzardfanny on Jan 12, 2010 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
He didn't have to.
Of course had he I’m sure he would have been a ball-hawking, shut down corner. Have you seen that man run?!?!
He didn't have to
Because the offense was so dominant. Unlike the Titans offense with Chris Johnson.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi
by gizzardfanny on Jan 12, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
winner.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jan 12, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
I am also stunned...
Did you read the article? Bradshaw did not say that the criteria for MVP should be “how a potential recipient should feel about it.” He simply pointed out that he would rather spread the award around because he believes that there are many worthy choices. Furthermore, you clearly do not understand the AP criteria when you ignorantly state that “[Brees] has to not suck as he did in his team’s December loses” or CJ “has to do more to get his team in the playoffs” as example of why they are undeserving choices. Do you care to elaborate on the second point? Aside from rushing 2,000+ yards in a season, what else would you expect CJ to do?
Bradshaw was making a fairly obvious point that you clearly cannot grasp. Namely, we all know that Peyton Manning is one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL, perhaps the best ever. We all know that a case can be made that he deserves the award each year, but at the point of repeatedly awarding Manning the MVP we are missing out on shining the spotlight on many other deserving guys as well.
Your crass and despicable comments regarding concussions are beyond the pale. Then again, I’ve read your blog long enough to realize that you spew nothing but vitriolic nonsense at every opportunity.
Peyton's like the Michael Jordan of the NFL
He’s the best player on his team and his team is nothing without him, so he’s basically the MVP every year. Peyton’s in the top 5, maybe top 3 in all major quarterback categories and he’s 14-0 when he plays the 4th quarter. The man deserved the award. He didn’t choke in primetime like Brees did against the Cowboys, and he doesn’t have me-first attitude like Johnson.
Peyton Manning makes it Wayne on them hoes!!!!
by KMR24 on Jan 11, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Except Jordon had 6 champioinships
I like Peyton, but he’s no Jordon.
Maybe Magic or Bird.
it's much easier to have one superstar carry a basketball team
And Jordan had some other damn good players around him for a couple of his years with the Bulls.
by flores salicis on Jan 11, 2010 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not talking about Jordan's championships
Both Bill Russell and Robert Horry have more rings than Jordan. I’m talking about Jordan’s six NBA MVPs. A lot of people believe that Barkley and Malone won their MVPs because the voters were sick of voting for Jordan.
Peyton Manning makes it Wayne on them hoes!!!!
^^ u serious?
Is Magic and Bird being used as downgrades from “Jordon”? Jordan’s first 5 years in the league seen titles won by either Jordan or Bird. It wasn’t until those 2 declined due to age that Jordan started winning anything. Jordan was great, but he didnt make players around him great like Bird and Magic did, so yeah, maybe Peyton is like Magic or Bird…the golden era of basketball died when they retired.
Hmmm, good point
Magic definitely made players better just like Peyton does. I think that’s a better analogy than Jordan.
Peyton Manning makes it Wayne on them hoes!!!!
I don’t doubt that Manning was an excellent choice, but I"m saying that repeatedly giving him it means we are missing out on the possibility of highlighting other good choices as well. I think that was Bradshaw’s point when he said that he’d rather have the award go to other guys out there.
Well, players like Brees and Johnson
need to step their game up even higher than Peyton and then maybe they’ll get the award.
Peyton Manning makes it Wayne on them hoes!!!!
the award is Most. Valuable. Player
Look, I’m the first to say I think BBS is a bit over the top in his criticism at times. But the guts of his argument is sound. This isn’t about making somebody feel good. This is award about who was the most valuable to his team.
The root word of valuable is value. What brings value to a team? leading them to victories- not just piling up yardage. The NFL is about winning (OK, OK, it’s really about money, but hear me out). That’s what makes a guy valuable in the NFL- can he get you more W’s than L’s. This award is about who does that the most. In other words, who was the one guy who had more to do with his team winning than anyone else in the NFL. And say what you want about CJ or Brees or Favre, any of those guys, nobody had as much to do with his team winning as Peyton did with the Colts. Without CJ, the Titans are maybe 4-12 instead of 8-8. Without Peyton, the Colts are MAYBE 4-12 instead of 14-0 (I choose to ignore those last 2 games. They did not happen!) The bottom line is that you can’t really make an argument about how valuable a player is if the team doesn’t win. If the Colts were to go 1-15 in a season where Peyton passed for 6,000 yards and 60 TD’s, I’d say he didn’t create value for his team, and shouldn’t win the award. Offensive player of the year, definitely, and I think CJ is deserving of that reward this year.
But the idea of spreading the award around just to make people feel good- that’s garbage.
by ColtsFanInTexas on Jan 11, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
Somewhat in Agreement...
I agree with some of your comments, but not all of them. I don’t think BBS understood what he read. Also, as I originally pointed out, Bradshaw wasn’t arguing that the criteria for the award should be whether or not a player feels good about it. Nobody argued that; BBS made that up.
Rather, Bradshaw pointed out that several deserving choices were out there, and he didn’t see any good reason to give it to the same guy year after year. Marino was a deserving choice nearly every year he played, but it’s silly to do give him the award every year. You are simply missing out on other deserving choices out there. I don’t think Manning was a bad choice, but I can see multiple guys who are deserving as well.
I partially agree that team record can play a role in determine who gets the award. However, remember that when Manning just got this award, people said that the award was—to an extent—a reflection of overall organizational excellence as well. I don’t think we can look at overall team record and use that as the criteria to judge these guys. If you’re watching the Titans, then you probably saw teams put 8 or 9 guys in the box for many plays. That is respecting, and thus valuing, another player out there in a very clear way.
Really my points are the following:
1. BBS cannot read.
2. Manning was a good choice, but I will admit that he was one of several good choices.
I think we're on the same page...
What BBS did is what’s called a “straw man” argument. You re-state the other guys position in a way that makes it seem flimsy and stupid, and then you proceed to knock it down. Not knocking BBS- it’s a common logic tactic that many people use without realizing they are doing it.
I guess I see what Bradshaw was saying, and I agree there were several good choices. However, my homerism is probably showing through, and I think Peyton was the most valuable player.
by ColtsFanInTexas on Jan 11, 2010 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
The argument can be made
That Johnson wasn’t even the MVP of the Titans. They didn’t start winning until they swapped in Vince Young, after all. Johnson’s an incredible player but he piles up stats, not wins.
Bradshaw’s point is, apparently, that the MVP award should be spread around an eras’ deserving players. I think he’s wrong. It should go to the best player. the most valuable player, the one that does the most to help his team win. Peyton Manning was that player this year; the fact he’s already won three is irrelevant. Passing the MVP around because there are other good players in the NFL would devalue whatever credibility the award has and make it meaningless.
I’m sure Brees would prefer to win an MVP because he was the best, and not because some voters thought he needed a shiny trophy or people would forget about him.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 11, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
Very much agree
The award isn’t Most Valuable Player Who Hasn’t Won This Award Recently. As to that, Brees or Rivers are clearly the frontrunners for the MVPWHWTAR award. Also, CJ is by far the winner of Most Valuable Player If We Listen To Who Whines The Most. Also, he should, by far, win Offensive Player of the Year. Seems like the latter should be a big enough feather to stick in your cap.
by BlueToTheCore on Jan 12, 2010 1:24 AM EST up reply actions
You're right about CJ not delivering the wins for his team.
But without Brees the Saints would probably suck as much as the Payton-less Colts. Brunell was awful in Week 17.
I think Peyton was the right choice, but there’s a decent argument to be made for Brees.
What will Drew Brees have to do?
Be a better QB than Peyton Manning.
Oh wait.
Ha!
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jan 11, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
spread it around a little?
when did the mvp become a condiment?
The NBA voters shouldnt have ‘spread it around’ when Jordan was playing, and they shouldnt spread it around when the most dominant QB ever is playing.
If you wanna spread something around, draw a map of hawaii on your partners back.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
by SpazMo on Jan 11, 2010 6:05 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
A map of hawaii?
Way to keep it classy, SpazMo.
huh? what?
who?
me??
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Too far?
That is not for me to judge.
by peytonsurdaddy on Jan 11, 2010 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
Haha
I read it and left it alone, just wondering how many people would actually get it.
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
Too far? Yes.
Funny? Yes.
Offensive Coordinator > Guard > Tackle > DE > OLB > RB > WR > CB
by Richard Hill on Jan 11, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
We have no limits here!!!
lol okay maybe a few, but none the less that was pretty funny.
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
What limits do you
speak of? Nevermind, I guess you mean politics and religion which is pretty understandable.
Peyton Manning makes it Wayne on them hoes!!!!
Bingo...
religion was brought up yesterday regarding Kurt Warner. The dude wouldn’t shut up and was pissing a few people off. Prime example of why it’s best left unsaid and untalked about.
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
what if Kurt were to say
I’d just like to thank the US Government for giving me the freedom of speech and relgiion allowing me to thank God for experiencing a sizeable volcanic eruption, akin to those on the big island.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
I have
no problem with what Kurt said/says. It’s his deal. But why come on here taking shots at the guy like that dude was yesterday? I believe you were part of that little ta boggle, no?
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
Word Fail...
damn you spell check! ta boggle= debacle
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
not really,
i was on the periphery… I didnt even hear Kurt Warner’s post game interview, i just told of my general dislike of athletes that thank God for the win.. I don’t mind if they thank Him for their ability or their right to make money playing a game, etc… but I dont think God is influencing the out come of games.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
If He isn't influencing the outcome of games...
Then why the hell do I bother going to church and praying on Sunday?
by peytonsurdaddy on Jan 11, 2010 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
.......
Please rise. Now sit on it.
May the Fonz be with you.
Let us ayyy.
And now a reading from the letters of Potsie to the Tuscaderos.
Go Colts!
by Marked Hoosier on Jan 11, 2010 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
wow...
i would LOVE to see that episode uncensored.
“Anyway, I have devised a formula. It’s really quite simple. You take the person’s most marked physical feature, compare it to genitalia of the male, female, or animal. Then end with the suffix tard, gobbler, or fucker.”
HA!
Go Colts!
by Marked Hoosier on Jan 12, 2010 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
i assumed for the same reasons i do
to pray for sex and money?
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
im suprised at the number of people
that picked up on it. if i had known it would have been so easily deciphered i wouldnt have typed it (ok, i would have, but i like to keep up appearances)
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
IMO
Offering those that don’t agree with you fluffy pink socks is going too far. Other than that, all is fair game.
Even I picked up on it,
and if you knew me, you would know that I’m probably the least likely person to get it.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is JD's best daydream. Cracks me up every time.
Ah, the Hawaiian Islands
Classic example of a plate moving over a tectonic hotspot.
I can just imagine the size of that magma chamber.
the bigger the
magma chamber, the bigger the eruption…
if you’re into that.
which geologists clearly are.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Its amazing how
the talk of Hawaii can turn so….dirty lol.
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
Clearly.
What’s there not to be into? Subductions, eruptions, molten lava, earthquakes, orogeny, rocks, crevices, cleavage, dikes, bedrock, horsts… I could go on all night.
dont stop on my account
i witnessed an eruption by the time you got to dikes and cleavage
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
by SpazMo on Jan 11, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this comment
has me crying with laughter. i havent laughed this good in a long time. you sir get a major rec
As long as we have Peyton we will always have a chance to win.
"18 is coming"- Ed Reed
Hmmm...
So, yeah he’s not as good a QB as Peyton’s in rarefied air but I take a little umbrage on him not being as good a guy.
Brees is a complete stand-up guy who gives a shit ton of money and time for kids. He gave Purdue a couple million to build a student-athlete center. Blah blah blah. Peyton’s great in this regard too, but let’s not sell another guy short just cause we love the Colts.
by The Walking Eye on Jan 11, 2010 6:07 PM EST reply actions
i cant really read
but im not sure people are putting brees down as much as bradshaw. i think peyton was the mvp, but my problem with bradshaw is voting for brees based on ‘spreadin it around’ and ‘makin him feel good’.
By his criteria, the patriots dont need another super bowl, brady has 3, thats enough to make him feel good, gotta spread it around.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Actually
I think the Patsies have won too many Super Bowls. They should have given one of those to the Colts.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi
by gizzardfanny on Jan 12, 2010 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
i agree :)
GO COLTS!!! 09 IS OURS!!!
previously known as (ANGELSFAITH)
by TheAngelsColts on Jan 12, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
I think BBS was referring to Brees not being as good of a quarterback as Peyton
not Brees being a good guy.
Peyton Manning makes it Wayne on them hoes!!!!
Never forget this quote from Bradshaw on himself,
“I may be dumb, but I’m not stupid”. I think that says it all,about him.
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
"As I grow older, the list of people who can kiss my ass grows longer"-Ancient Hoosier Proverb.
Thomas "Hollywood" Henderson was right
Bradshaw couldn’t spell “cat” if you spotted him the “c” and the “a.”
Douche comment?
I think so. I think him being dropped on his head as a child added with a career of taking a bunch of blows to the head (TWSS) has left only a shell.
I put as much stock
in something Bradshaw says or opines as i put into any idiot that has a mic and a camera in fromt of him. He’s there to get ratings, obviously.
This is the same guy who said, upon the initial stages of US invasion in Iraq, “We’re coming for you, Saddam!”
I almost threw up, I was laughing so hard.
Take this tool's face off the home page
No one listens to this guy’s comments; at least I dont – I never watch the Fox pregame show. So why are we giving his sister’s husband any publicity?
What's this award called?
Most Valuable Player.
People sometimes forget that the Colts’ running game is virtually non-existent. It fluctuates from week to week, sure, but I don’t think it ever really got above about 29 (out of 32) this whole season. And yet, they went 14-0 when he was kept in the game.
So, do the math. Absolutely no running offense, and a perfect record. Where do the wins come from?
More so than any player (in my opinion, and in the opinion of the voters for the MVP), Peyton is responsible for the wins his team accrues. He is the most valuable player in the league. His stats and his record are fantastic indicators of this, but one shouldn’t forget to look at the whole picture. He got 14 wins this season without any run game to take the pressure of the pass defense. He dominated even when teams knew he was going to pass the ball 60% of the time. That’s impressive, and it won him a fourth MVP title.
But hey, Terry Bradshaw has every right to express his opinion. Even if it is not that well thought out.
If the title fits....
Excuse me, if Drew Brees deserved it, he would have gotten it. Terry needs to wake up and realize that Peyton is one heck of a quarter back and obviously deserved the MVP award, more than Drew Brees and more than anyone!!
Oh, and it’s not the MVGG (Most Valuable “Good Guy”) award, its the MVP. Whatever Mr. Bradshaw.
tobyzshadow-peytonzfan
by tobyzshadow18fan on Jan 11, 2010 8:52 PM EST reply actions
I see that you're new poster
Welcome! It’s great to see more female Colts fans here!
Peyton Manning makes it Wayne on them hoes!!!!
Thank you.
Thanks KMR… It’s good to be here.
tobyzshadow-peytonzfan
by tobyzshadow18fan on Jan 11, 2010 9:59 PM EST reply actions
No problem
I posted this before, so this might help you around the site:
Here’s a basic run of the blog:
Technical stuff:
If you want to start some type of discussion, create a fanpost. For links to website, videos, and quotes; use fanshots. To comment on a comment like I did yours, use the "reply" next to the date and time. To rec (recommend) something you like or flag a comment like spam, use the "actions" button next to "reply".
Rules:
Um, there really aren’t any. Just don’t say offensive slurs about anyone including the players, the editors, and the members of this fine community, but you don’t have to walk on egg shells here. If you feel someone is making an outrageous comment, come back at them but with facts. The arguments and fights are what make this blog so great! If they don’t listen, they’re probably a troll anyway ;-)
Peyton Manning makes it Wayne on them hoes!!!!
So, if I wanted to call you a douchebag I could?
"Pressure is something you feel when you don't know what the hell you're doing."
-Peyton Manning
not that I would...call you douchebag I mean.
"Pressure is something you feel when you don't know what the hell you're doing."
-Peyton Manning
Hello!
im the official welcome committee chairman! Welcome!
And hi!
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
so no running game is the argument?
BigBlueShoe, you always take offense when someone calls you a name and then attack them that they don’t use logic, but all you can do with Drew Brees is offer “he shouldn’t suck”.
When someone calls you a fat hump, it’s because you constantly come off as a bitter person who can dish it but can’t take it.
Oh, just so you have some facts for me, please list the statistical categories where Peyton Manning beat Drew Brees. Passing Yards, Wins and Pro Bowl receivers? Did I catch them all?
Brees set two NFL records this year: Completion Percentage and First QB to lead the league with a Passer Rating over 100 and not win MVP.
But in the biggest non-playoff game of his career
Brees didn’t deliver. He and the Saints had the spotlight on them that Saturday night against the Cowboys, yet with over 2 minutes left in the 4th quarter, he choked. On the other hand, Peyton had one of the his best games this season at Jacksonville earlier that same week on Thrusday night which sealed the deal for his league-leading 4th MVP.
Just because you lead the league in completion percentage doesn’t mean squat. Chad Pennington has the highest career completion percentage in NFL history, that tells much great of a stat it is.
Peyton Manning makes it Wayne on them hoes!!!!
Sorry, but the biggest non-playoff game of his career was against the Jets in week 4
Then the Giants in Week 6, then the Pats in 12. By the time we got to the Cowboys, we already had 13 wins, home-field and a bye. Plus a bunch of injuries to our defense (especially our secondary). We brought Mike McKenzie and Chris McCallister off the streets to play against TOM BRADY AND THAT PATRIOTS. If that doesn’t tell you how hurt and desperate our defense was, I don’t know what will. The Cowboys caught us at a bad time, but that shouldn’t reflect negatively on the season Drew Brees put together.
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
What does the Saints defensive injuries
have to do with Brees fumbling the ball twice in the final two minutes of regulation? Brees had plenty of time march is team the down the field to at least tie the game or win it (I can’t remember the final score), but looked like a deer caught in headlights. I really like Brees, but until he can come up in the clutch, he isn’t on the same level as Peyton Manning.
Peyton Manning makes it Wayne on them hoes!!!!
Sorry I didn't respond earlier,
The injuries weren’t just to the defense, our starting Left OT was out, and his replacement was being treated like a turnstile by a Pro Bowler named DeMarcus Ware. No, Brees did not have time to march his team down the field. Actually, he barely had time for a three-step drop. Check out the stats for that game. Brees was sacked 4 times, twice by Spencer, twice by Ware. Both Ware sacks also caused fumbles. Even with Ware in the backfield pretty much all day, Brees still completed 29 of 45 passes for 298 yards (for those that don’t keep up with the Saints, we only rushed 13 times in that game). There really isn’t much more that could have realistically been expected of him. BTW, the final score was Dallas 24, NO 17. Yes, I do blame that loss on injuries, on BOTH sides of the ball.
P.S. Would you put Brees on that level if he wins a Super Bowl this year?
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
by ArithMattic on Jan 13, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
I'm sorry to interfer
But have you seen the Colts OL in the last two years?
It’s not their fault that Peyton doesn’t get sacked.
(I would not put Brees on that level even if he wins the Super Bowl this year, but I understand why others would. I’m just a homer in that regard.)
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi
by gizzardfanny on Jan 13, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
"Terry Bradshaw worried that people will think Peyton Manning is better than him"
Regarding the title of this post, the last time I checked, Terry Bradshaw had 4 Super Bowl rings to Peyton Manning’s 1.
Roll Tide... National Champs!!!
If you think that makes him a better QB...
You have my sympathy.
by peytonsurdaddy on Jan 11, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't say anything about who the better QB was...
I don’t see why the hell Bradshaw would be worried at all who “thinks” Manning is better than him. He has the freedom to say what he feels about the award, he himself won one as well. He simply stated that he would have liked to have seen Brees or CJ win, someone other than Manning, b/c we all know how great he already is. I don’t agree w/ the whole spreading it around concept, but that’s his opinion. Manning won, plain and simple. I have a problem w/ the title of the post more than anything else said here.
Roll Tide... National Champs!!!
But you conveniently leave out
that Bradshaw played on a team with agruably the greatest defense in the history of the NFL. Also, the 1970s if the only decade in the modern NFL history to be run-heavy, so I assume Bradshaw did a lot of handing-off to his running backs.
Peyton Manning makes it Wayne on them hoes!!!!
Same argument as Brady vs Manning...
…Patriots are the better team of the decade, Manning is the better QB.
Offensive Coordinator > Guard > Tackle > DE > OLB > RB > WR > CB
by Richard Hill on Jan 11, 2010 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
I'll take it.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is JD's best daydream. Cracks me up every time.
Although I still like to call this
the decade the Trifecta (Pats, Colts, Steelers). All 3 of those teams took turns beating up on the rest of the NFL this decade.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is JD's best daydream. Cracks me up every time.
quiet you
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Jan 12, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
just playing around
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Jan 12, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
as was I. I'm glad we are on the same page of playing around.
by dolphinsinbuffalo on Jan 12, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Inflection is so hard to tell on the interwebz.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is JD's best daydream. Cracks me up every time.
His opinion?
opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and Bradshaw’s is full of shit
by Colts Cultist on Jan 12, 2010 6:55 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Wrong.
But I would love to hear WHY Brees should have gotten it? When Manning gets almost 80% of the votes, how can you even question that? If it was even close, then maybe you have an argument, but it was Manning by a landslide.
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
Everyone is allowed their...
opinion. Are you threatened by his opinion…to blatantly call someone wrong…is wrong. Actually the MVP is nothing more than the collective opinions of the voters. He is PurdueMatt…I can see why he would want Brees. Differences in opinion are what make the world go round…if you and BBS and the others can’t get that you are all schmucks.
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
Classy comment.
That is what makes blogs good, we don’t all agree.
by dolphinsinbuffalo on Jan 12, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Nice one, internet tough guy.
I like how you condemn his opinion that the other guy’s opinion is wrong by saying we should all be allowed to express our opinions. Do you see the hypocrisy in this or shall I draw a graph?
by peytonsurdaddy on Jan 12, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
I'd like a graph.
"Between the wish and the thing the world lies waiting."
— Cormac McCarthy (All the Pretty Horses)
by Addai Another Aday on Jan 12, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Do you want
a line graph
or a bar graph?
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is JD's best daydream. Cracks me up every time.
Hmmmm....
How about a flow chart? Do you have a venn diagram?
"Between the wish and the thing the world lies waiting."
— Cormac McCarthy (All the Pretty Horses)
by Addai Another Aday on Jan 12, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
You got it:
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is JD's best daydream. Cracks me up every time.
That's supposed to be,
“Things My Dog Will Bark At To Save My Life.”
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is JD's best daydream. Cracks me up every time.
Here's a
flow chart
and a Venn Diagram.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is JD's best daydream. Cracks me up every time.
That'll do.
"Between the wish and the thing the world lies waiting."
— Cormac McCarthy (All the Pretty Horses)
by Addai Another Aday on Jan 12, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
I know a lot of people like to think there's wisdom in numbers
especially when the majority supports their views, but surprisingly enough, group-think is often a sign that someone isn’t thinking at all. How else do you explain 8 years of W and American Idol, America’s Next Top Model, America’s Funniest Home Videos, and The BCS? All have much larger pools of voters, and more often than not, you can argue that they got it wrong.
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
just supply some well thought out reasons for Drew Brees winning it
we’re waiting with baited breath.
To save me some time in the future, before anyone that decides to argue pro Brees and wants to use interceptions, please please please realize that you are a mindless sheep, then look up fumbles lost by Brees.
These count as turnovers, too.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Seriously?
If you don’t think there’s a reasonable argument for Brees then I don’t know what to say. Either you don’t actually understand football or you’re simply too much of a homer to have any credibility. Anyway, ArithMattic appears to have done okay down below. Like I said earlier, I think Peyton deserved it, but Brees and Johnson both made solid cases.
Terry is a Moron
in other news, the sky and the Colts’ uniforms are blue, water is wet and Peyton Manning is the G.O.A.T. As another poster previously said, Terry’ presence on FOX is the #1 reason why the NFL Today is SO much better. Dan Marino, Shannon Sharpe, Bill Cowher James Brown.>>>>>>>>>>Curt Menefee, Terry, Jimmy Johnson, Howie Long. Not a hard decision at all.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jan 12, 2010 12:09 PM EST reply actions
Now I don't agree with Terry's opinion
nor do I think he’s the sharpest tool in the shed. But let’s argue against his opinion and not the person. The MVP is an opinion based award. There is absolutely no criteria that a person offering the opinion has to follow. They could vote Curtis Painter for the award if they wanted – if Bradshaw believes that the award deserves to be spread around, he’s entitled to that opinion. I obviously disagree and think it’s a bit of an asinine opinion, but it is a perfectly legitimate reason to vote for Drew Brees.
Nice Take
Like most Colts fans, you have a good head on your shoulders. I see you’re a member of the Mile High Report. Come on over anytime. Drew Brees is also class but Peyton Manning is better.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jan 12, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks! You guys have the best blog as far as quality articles
I like our bunch of commenters more, but I really enjoy MHR. Especially the stats based posts. I visit often.
I thank my lucky stars that I get to root for the team that has Peyton on it or that my parents chose Indiana to settle down in all the time. :)
I'm a Saints fan, so I can understand why some Colts fans don't think others deserve the award.
Every one of us thinks our own MVP is the most deserving for the League MVP. You can argue that Manning’s TEAM went 14-0 when he played the entire game, and I can argue against that by saying if New Orleans had your defense, Brees would have been 14-0 as well, he just wouldn’t have as many come-from-behind wins. You can argue that Manning had a lot of changes going on this season, with a “new” coach and new #2 receiver and a not-so-statistically-great running game, and I could argue that you had a perennial Pro Bowlers in Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark while Brees had none. Honestly, besides Brees, can you name a single New Orleans Saint who has made the Pro Bowl at a skill position for more than one season? Shockey is great when he isn’t on the sidelines, but he hasn’t made the Pro Bowl in a while.
Now, you may want to point out that Manning had more total yards on the season, and I’d point out that Brees had the second most yards in a season EVER last year and didn’t get the nod for MVP, while this year Brees had more TD’s, a higher completion percentage (highest ever, as a matter of fact), higher yards per completion, higher yards per attempt, a much higher passer rating, oh, and fewer INT’s. His team also had a much better record than anyone expected, despite the three game losing streak to close out the season.
We weren’t even expected to be second in our division, and yet somehow we managed to cobble together the best season ever by a Saints team. You have to admit, if you guys went 8-8, you’d be calling for the coaches head because you EXPECT 11-13 wins per season. That’s the TEAM history that you’ve built, and although Manning is a major part of that, your defense deserves just as much credit as your QB. I can’t say that on my side. No Brees for us and an 8-8 season is an unfathomable success, because our Defense gives up 2 points more than yours and without Brees there to spread defenses and pick them apart, we don’t score enough to break even.
I’m not saying that Manning isn’t a GREAT quarterback, I actually am a Manning fan and have been since he entered the league. I love offense, and he has an INCREDIBLE command and understanding of his offense and that’s why he’ll always be in the MVP discussion somewhere at or near the top, but from the perspective of a fan of another great quarterback (compare their stats over the last 4 years, not their team’s success), I know that you would feel cheated if Manning put up the numbers Brees did for the last two seasons and someone with lesser stats on a better team with a better defense and more Pro Bowlers (say, Tom Brady in 2007, with only 30 TD’s instead of 50) got the award.
But, the bottom line is that the MVP is a popularity contest. The Saints have to put together a few years of consistent winning before anyone other than Saints fans give them their due for the seasons they have. I don’t begrudge you all for standing by your QB, I wouldn’t expect anything less. But for some of you to dismiss Bradshaw’s reasoning and not take the stats into account to even consider that his opinion and reasoning may be valid… well, I’m not quite sure what to think of that.
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
I think most of us can see the argument for Brees winning the MVP.
I actually do agree with you that Brees would’ve been a perfectly valid choice for MVP. His defense did let up towards the end of the season, and that’s unfortunate. To be fair though, Brees got just as much if not more media attention this year when he was undefeated.
Nevertheless, I was honestly pretty surprised when word about the polling seemed to suggest Manning was so far ahead of Brees. TBH, Peyton had a great season, but his defense really did an amazing job this year.
I think a lot of the irritation around TB is his weird argument about giving it to Brees because it would “mean more” to Brees. That’s a pretty bizarre argument for handing out the MVP. It’s not even remotely relevant.
by flores salicis on Jan 12, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
We don't have a big name defense
Or a big name running attack. The Saints have Sharper and what, a top 5 NFL running game? That’s enough to make most voters consider one guy to be doing it with a lot less.
And you may not have perennial Pro-Bowlers like Manning does, but your receiving corps is still pretty damn solid and there’s probably an argument that if Brees just threw to Colston ten times a game instead of spreading the ball around then Colston would easily get the stats to go to the Pro Bowl.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 12, 2010 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
You're A OK in my book what with a Mitch Hedberg quote in your sig. :)
Brees was definitely a very close second this year and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with someone arguing that he deserved the award. I think what some of us here are arguing against is Bradshaw’s reasoning – in that he believes it should be “spread” around. A valid argument can be made based on stats and value to team, but to claim that someone else deserves an award because the other person has already won it is not the most (nice word) logical argument. He still has the right to make that argument as I said above, but we have an equal right to question it.
I’m sure more will share Bradshaw’s view if Peyton has similar numbers and other candidates are also close. Then the Manning MVP fatigue will really start to set in.
I can see how you'd take offense to that part of Bradshaw's argument,
but it’s not the focus of his argument, it’s just a small part.
Also, I usually don’t take quotes, but I have to point this out. You said “I’m sure more will share Bradshaw’s view if Peyton has similar numbers and other candidates are also close. Then the Manning MVP fatigue will really start to set in.”
Here’s the numbers.
Player QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD Int
Manning 99.9 393 571 68.8 4500 281.3 7.9 33 16
Brees 109.6 363 514 70.6 4388 292.5 8.5 34 11
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
when you factor in fumbles
Drew Brees had 10, and lost 6, he actually had more turnovers than Peyton, lets not for get that. And maybe you should post ANY/A (im not sure what the numbers are) instead of Y/A
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Spaz, the fumbles and sacks has more to do with your offensive line being better than the Saints OL
than it does with Manning being a better QB. A few of those fumbles came in the Dallas game, when DeMarcus Ware was abusing our replacement OT. It’s easy to lose fumbles when a ProBowler is treating your 3rd string OT like a turnstile.
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
So sacks and fumbles have to do with the OL being better
but Drew Brees comp% and TDs dont have to do with the WRs being better?
I’m doped up on pain meds, but I’m pretty sure I’m doing okay in this one, right guys?
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
ArithMatic,
I don’t agree that those are all about the oline. If you’ve watched the Colts play, you would realize that Peyton greatly contributes to his lack of sacks and fumbles. His oline isn’t the worst in the league, but it’s definitely not the best either. He doesn’t have all day to make his passes or avoid pressure. He should be rewarded for his avoidance of sacks and fumbles.
Second, if you’re going to talk about oline play, then please consider the tipped passes and mistakes by the receivers that caused a good percentage of Peyton’s interceptions. There were about 7 that I can contribute to Peyton only. There’s an article analyzing each of his interceptions, I can find them for you, if you want.
Just like other teams, he has had his fair share of drops from receivers – especially the ones that weren’t even expected to start the year. He had two brand new receivers to work in in a system that depends exclusively on timing and route running.
Again, not saying you can’t make a case for Brees, but I don’t think you should make the case for him by arguing AGAINST Peyton.
do you actually have that article?
id love to read it, ive been interested in that all year. I can only think of…
1 – jacksonville
1 – seattle
2- NE
1 – Balt
2 – HOU
1 – Buff
where there was no tip action
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
I didn't find the one I was looking for
that one had quite a few clips of the actual interceptions, but I did find this at the [url=http://forum.colts.com/showthread.php?51213-Peyton-Manning-s-interceptions&p=1077664#post1077664]official forum.[/url]
I'm sorry if it seems like I'm discrediting what Peyton has done
I’ve tried to make it clear that I think Peyton is a GREAT QB, with unquestioningly the best body of work among ALL active QB’s, Brees & Favre included. I simply think that this year and last year Drew had better seasons than any other QB. His team performance and team reputation are what prevent him from gaining popularity contest accolades such as MVP.
I understand that you all have a right to feel proud of the accolades that your players have garnered, and I would feel the same way if those accolades were over here. What I don’t get is how some of you dismiss the season Drew had offhandedly as if there is absolutely no way the two could be compared. Not all of you, just some of you.
It isn’t your fault, but some awards are given based on reputation (team or past performance) instead of on actual season performance. Sometimes all it takes is for a perennially good player to have another good season to get the nod over another player who actually had a statistically better season. Example, can anyone explain why Julius Peppers AND Trent Cole are on the Pro Bowl roster instead of Will Smith? Can you honestly say that both of them had better years than Smith, or are you simply more familiar with them, or just like them better?
That’s the way it is with Brees and MVP. Be honest, if Peyton put up Brees’ raw numbers and Jason Campbell put up Mannings, and Campbell ended up winning MVP, wouldn’t you be upset? Suppose Jason Campbell’s Redskins went 14-2, and your Colts went 13-3, would that make you feel any better?
Suppose Peyton was hurt and your back-up QB stunk, so Joseph Addai had to take the offense on his shoulders and he pounded out 2000 yards and 16 TD’s, despite the fact that opposing teams game planned specifically to prevent him from gaining yards and scoring. Would Jason Campbell’s season be enough to convince you to vote for him instead of Addai? Wouldn’t you be a little upset that accomplishing something that has only been done 6 times in NFL history gets trumped by something that is accomplished by at least two QB’s every season this millenia?
Sure, Chris Johnson lost 6 straight without Vince Young, but honestly, how many games do you think that team would have lost without Chris Johnson and his record 2500 yards from scrimmage & 16 TD’s? No, it’s not a record number of TD’s, but then again, no one else set a record for TD’s this season either.
Now, I’ve just made a case for Drew Brees & Chris Johnson without arguing against Manning. I even swapped the player stats and made the case FOR Manning with Brees’ stats or Joseph Addai with Johnson’s stats. If it’s an individual award, it’s hard to justify not giving the award for the best individual performances.
Once more, I think Peyton is a GREAT QB, one of the best if not THE BEST EVER. I just don’t think he was the best QB this particular season, nor the most valuable. But honestly, Chris Johnson is the only one who didn’t have any help at all (no Pro Bowlers on the roster).
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
Answer: Reggie Wayne & Dallas Clark.
Question: Name all of the receivers on the New Orleans Saints and Indianapolis Colts that have been to the Pro Bowl more than once in the last three years.
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
Can you respond to the article that explains why the sack rate is mostly the QB's fault and not the o-line's fault?
by flores salicis on Jan 12, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
I will, but I have to read it first.
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
Answer: Zero
Question: How many more first round picks do the Colts have at WR/TE than the Saints do?
Answer: -1
Question: How many more second round picks do the Colts have at WR/TE than the Saints do?
Answer: Never!
Question: In which of the last two years was the Indianapolis rushing attack better than the Saints rushing attack?
(This would help the passing game, DUCY)
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
on rushing
I’ll have to hunt for the article, but unsurprisingly, having a good rushing attack tends to help with success of play-action calls. Not surprising, is it? Helps when NO has a markedly better rushing attack than Indy’s, which is again, ranked dead last!
by flores salicis on Jan 12, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
We had the worst last year,
and Drew threw for 5000 yards…
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
last year
the Saints ran for 4.0 YPC, t-21st in the league
The Colts ran for 3.4 YPC, 32nd in the league
The Saints ran for 99.6 Y/G, 28th in the league
The Colts ran for 76.9 Y/G, 31st in the league
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
hold on, you're arguing that since your running game sucked worse...
then your quarterback was better, even though he put up 1000 yards less?
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
That's not what he said.
He called you out on saying that the Saints had the worst running game last year, which isn’t true.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is JD's best daydream. Cracks me up every time.
Okay, I get that...
I meant to say OUR worst but typed to fast… anything in the twenties does not count as a good running game, either way you look at it.
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
it wasn't in the 20s
It was actually the #10 running game in the league adjusted for defense according to FO stats. I wouldn’t call that “bad”. Not fantastic, but very very far from bad. Ours was 27. That’s pretty awful.
by flores salicis on Jan 12, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Okay, here's where we're getting crossed.
You’re looking at manipulated stats, and I’m looking at raw stats. Once we start looking at the same stats in the same way, comparing apples and apples instead of apples and oranges, we’ll be able to come to some agreement.
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
sure, but...
I’d argue that FO stats are usually better than just looking at raw numbers. I mean, if everyone played the exact same schedule, this wouldn’t be an issue, but otherwise, having some way of adjusting for the defense the offenses actually played against does actually clarify the raw stats. That’s why we were challenging your raw stats for Drew Bree’s # as the end-all-be-all for why he’s a better QB. FO ranked the QBs in all the major stats areas adjusted for defense, and in the past couple of years, Brees did not do better than Peyton across the board. It was what you’d expect; generally close, Peyton was better one year in one area, flip flop the next, etc etc. Nothing I would be able to pin down as conclusively better.
by flores salicis on Jan 12, 2010 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
Our QB was better
Because even with a crappier run offense, he lead his team to 12 wins and the playoffs, where as Brees lead his team to 8-8 and no playoffs.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi
by gizzardfanny on Jan 12, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
And your defense had nothing to do with that?
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
Not 4 wins difference
No.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi
by gizzardfanny on Jan 12, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
And like we've been trying to tell Titans fans
You are simply not important enough, when your team is not in the playoffs.
BTW, look at Manning’s wins in 2003 and 2004 with no defense.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi
by gizzardfanny on Jan 12, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
no, you said
‘we had the worst running game in the league last year’
You did not.
This is what arguing is, you say something, I provide facts as to why you’re wrong, and then you try to go in circles to hide the fact that you’re wrong.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
typo... typeing too fast
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
typing
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
yea
if you watch NFL replay, where you can just focus on the game, you can see LBs not even look at the RB on play action. They were just dropping dropping dropping. Fun stuff.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
So, are you saying that a lack of a running game actually makes it harder
to have a good year passing?
If so, does that mean that Brees should have been MVP last year, seeing as to how he must have had the greatest QB performance ever?
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
seeing as how you just made that up
(see above stats)
perhaps you should go back to the Saints board and discuss this with people that won’t actually fact check you.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
and just to continue it
according to Football Outsiders DVOA
the Saints had the #10 Rushing Offense last year
The Colts had the #27 Rushing Offense last year
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
and according to FO
this year the saints had the #1 rushing attack
The Colts had the #22
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Really?
the Saints had the #1 rushing attack this year?
I did not know that. Interesting info.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is JD's best daydream. Cracks me up every time.
Actually, that's very interesting
considering that we lost our last three and our running game seemed non-existent again… adjusted for defense, that is.
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
You're doing fine.
I’m actually enjoying this one.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is JD's best daydream. Cracks me up every time.
As am I
love a good stat war!
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
This site needs more stat wars.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is JD's best daydream. Cracks me up every time.
It does
where’s Shake and Mgrex? This is their kinda stuff
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
I've seen Shake around lately.
Maybe he doesn’t want to get involved with this one. Can’t read other people’s minds.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is JD's best daydream. Cracks me up every time.
been busy with a reading heavy winter class
and I hate MVP arguments because everyone is arguing for different players while holding different definitions of MVP
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Jan 12, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
That must suck.
I’ve had the luxury of not having to do much reading in my classes so far. I hope that continues.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is JD's best daydream. Cracks me up every time.
I received an email
yesterday from my counseling psychology professor to read ch. 1 and 2 and 3 “short” articles one being 8, another 5, and the last 2 pages long and that class starts on thursday…ugh!
Peyton Manning makes it Wayne on them hoes!!!!
I hate asshat profs who think you wait by your email to here from them, or think it's an excuse to get you to read their crap before you've even been to class.
Fucking no-real-life-experience-haveing-assholes.
by vintagephoenix on Jan 12, 2010 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
Angry Canadian on drugs
makes sense to me.
/thumbs up
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jan 12, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
that's a false misconception
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=4395
QBs play a huge role in avoiding sacks. Our o-line was TERRIBLE last year. You’ll notice Peyton’s sack rate didn’t change much. Why? He’s one of those QBs who has great pocket awareness and a quick release. What DID change was his ANY/A because he couldn’t count on protection long enough for deeper passes.
by flores salicis on Jan 12, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
dingdingding
We have a winner. I’ve read and heard other coaches and defensive guys say exactly that: his awareness and (especially) his quick release makes it very difficult to sack him.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jan 12, 2010 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
And also the sheer willingless
to just throw the ball away and live to play another down.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: This is JD's best daydream. Cracks me up every time.
It isn't, though
Our offensive line stinks, Manning’s just the best in the league at knowing when to get rid of the ball. I know you’re not a Colts fan so you’re not as aware of our team as we are, but our offensive line has had between one and three turnstiles all season – we’ve been holding a TE in most of the season just to stop Peyton getting killed by rushers beating up our LT, and one reason our running game is crap is we have to hold guys back to block inside because our RG sucks.
QBs have a huge role to play in taking sacks. Manning doesn’t take sacks because he’s great at feeling pressure and getting rid of the ball, not because we have an All-Pro line.
by eltharion_doa on Jan 12, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
I left out next year in my post.
The fatigue would come in play next year, not this year. (It obviously wasn’t since he won the award.)
The stats are close this year and were close last year. Peyton had close stats on the team with the best record in the NFL. You can obviously make a case for others, but you can’t say Peyton didn’t deserve it either. If the stats are again close next year, there might be other players who get a better look because of the fatigue factor.
I will not agree that one of these players should win because of this factor, but I can see the influence it will have on voters.
i would argue that
if the Colts WIN the super bowl, and Peyton has a convincing playoffs, AND they have a regular season akin to this year, that there will be no Peyton fatigue.
However.. if the Colts lose Saturday, regardless of how Peyton plays, I dont think Peyton wins the MVP next year even if he throws for a 100% comp%, 100TDs, and a perfect passer rating and the Colts go 16-0
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
We shall see...
I didn’t say he wouldn’t win it necessarily, just that more of the voters will have Bradshaw like Manning fatigue.
im agreeing with you
just pointing out what I also think will happen with two different extremes (winning it all, one and done). I felt that fatigue would kick in last year and this year (i think his injury kept him fresh last year, and I think this year it was more people around him failing after the Colts sat him than it was him winning them over)
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
I agree
I can’t say Peyton didn’t deserve it, he had a hell of a year for the team with the best record in the league. I just can’t justify giving it to him over Brees, who had a slightly better year statistically for a team that only lost one more game. Actually, I have a hard time justifying either in light of how hard it is to get 2000 yards rushing.
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
The difference is
Brees had a horrible game in a game his team tried to win.
Manning had no bad games.
It was a very close race – until that game.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi
by gizzardfanny on Jan 12, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Terry Bradshaw worried that people will think Peyton Manning is better than him
I’m not sure TB is really worried about that. Peyton is a better QB than Bradhsaw, but Terry still lead his team to 3 more championships than Peyton has. That is the point of playing in the NFL, correct? Not personal accolades. TB was 14-5 in the playoffs and Peyton is 7-8.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Peyton is the best QB of all time, but in big playoff games he hasn’t exactly been that guy.
Sorry if that is a bit homeristic coming from a Steelers fan.
Optimism. Positivity. Win.
I don't think you can pin all the playoff failures on him though.
In fact, I’m not sure any of the recent ones you can pin on him.
by flores salicis on Jan 12, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Last year
Didn’t he get the ball with 3ish minutes left to play up 3? And the offense went 3 and out? And I believe the 3rd down was like 3rd and 2. A loss never squarely lies on one person’s shoulders, but a first down there woulda been a different story.
Optimism. Positivity. Win.
by John Stephens on Jan 12, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
sure, but I think you'd be hard pressed to not putting a bigger share of the blame on...
Our D who apparently had no answer for Gates. Also, average field position for Colts vs. SD? Yeah, being constantly pinned inside the 10 is no fun (and a lot of us have recurring nightmares about Scifres).
by flores salicis on Jan 12, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Scrifes is a beast. Anyway, my point was more that the title of this article is foolish. Peyton Manning is the best quarterback to ever play, and I don’t think Bradshaw would disagree with that. Although, IMO having the best numbers doesn’t make you the best ever. Personally, I’d rather have more rings around my finger. And as it stands Bradshaw is that guy.
Optimism. Positivity. Win.
by John Stephens on Jan 12, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
What I deciphered from the quote is that Terry thought Brees or Johnson were equals in the MVP race and therefore one of the other two should have got it. I would have voted for CJ personally.
Optimism. Positivity. Win.
by John Stephens on Jan 12, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
I took the title as a bit of tongue-in-cheek humor. I certainly didn't take it seriously anyway.
I got the feeling most people could see an argument for Brees. CJ gets controversial since at that point, you wind up arguing what the definition of MVP is, where it overlaps with OPOY, and stuff like that.
by flores salicis on Jan 12, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
That still wasn't Peyton's fault completely.
Gijon Robinson missed his assignment completely. And then Peyton never got the ball in overtime. He threw for 300 yrds, didn’t have an INT. Scrifes averaged 51+ yards punting, AVERAGED. We outplayed them on offense and defense, it was the ST that lost that game. Now not saying Peyton couldn’t have done more, but it was a team loss.
Dont forget Freddy K.
and his illegal contact which eventually led to our 3rd and 4th and 1. freddy did not cut it as a sub for bracket at MLB. Special teamer, yes. Weak-side sub, yes. But not up to the challenge.
by naptown_ninja on Jan 12, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Brees is a great qb
but hardly “every bit as fgood as Peyton”
Have you checked their stats lately?
Not their team success, because defense has every bit as much to do with that as offense, and there’s no arguing that you all have had a much better defense. Brees is actually better than Peyton over the last two seasons. Well, besides 2004-5, has Manning ever had a season statistically comparable to Brees’ season this year? No homerism please, just be honest about the numbers.
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
you dont want homerism, but then you make statements like
‘Brees is actually better than Peyton over the last two seasons’
l
o
l
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Spaz, please look at stats.
I wasn’t saying it to be a homer, I was just comparing the stats. I didn’t say Brees had a better career, and I didn’t put Manning down. I just compared the stats.
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
the problem is...
What stats you’re comparing. I linked some stats below. Looking at defense-adjusted stats is usually a bit more credibly than the passer rating stat alone.
by flores salicis on Jan 12, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
actually
you’re picking and choosing what stats you like and leaving out stats that disagree with your opinion and then you’re making a statement of fact, when it is, in fact, your opinion.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Spaz, what did I leave out?
Team wins are a team effort, and neither QB plays defense, so that just leaves the stats that they are actually responsible for, you know, the ones that begin with the ball leaving their hands.
If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002
Spaz is referring to the fact that passer rating is a pretty poor stat to rely on alone
And that’s the only one you listed. I listed links to stats that counter your interpretation, which still seems to be based on passer rating alone.
by flores salicis on Jan 12, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
well, first
you’re leaving out fumbles and sacks, and sack yards lost (which affects ANY/A) so that some of his more advanced stats look better.
Next you’re leaving out advanced stats which account for opponents and adjust based on that. Against the Lions, Drew Brees threw 6 TDs this year. Against a tough pass defense like the Bills, he threw 0. He played the joke pass Ds of the Bucs and Falcons twice this year, feasting on them, while looking horrid against the Jets and Bills. It matters that you adjust for opponent. It matters that you just don’t say lol he threw 33 touchdowns but 30 of them came against the 28th, 29th, and 30th pass Ds.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
I like Brees.
That said, when he has the consistency Peyton has had over the past decade +, I might agree. Not until then though.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jan 12, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Which stats?
http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BreeDr00.htm
Looking at things like at what most people would argue as the most important stats DYAR, ANY/A, DVOA ratings, just looking at the past 3 years, it looks like the two are fairly close. One is on top one year for one stat, the other is on top the other. Nothing seems to indicate to me that Brees is flat out unquestionably better.
by flores salicis on Jan 12, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Terry Bradshaw
Fox sports do all they can not to cover the AFC at all. I mean they report NEWS on every team, but their writers are mostly colts haters who bow down to Brett Favre or NFC East. It’s like they’ve been biding their time for 14 years for the cowboys to actually have a good season. The only AFC games fox televises are intra-conference. That’s just the way the pie is sliced- I get that. But Terry saying NFC version of Peyton Manning should be the MVP is not surprising – his producers prolly agree.
Jealously, is the Color of BLUE here.
8+ years ago, before Manning knew he was even gonna be great, it was Terry Bradshaw on Fox who “…predicted Peyton Manning is gonns be a great QuarterBack…”. If anyone knows Quarterback “talent” it is TB,
so what the ____ are you talkin’ ‘bout here?
Blast from past again shoehead.
There are only 2 starting players in ALL of NFL history that have 4 Rings, and that is TB, and Joe Cool. When you reach that stratosphere you will earn QB bragging rights, until then?
Out of that, Terry reached that status as of 79/80. Terry once was quoted when asked about “Joe Montana”, Terry said Montana was a better QB than he was. ok, point taken.?
Well, its been over 30 years ppl !,… uhhhhmmm.
Terry doesn’t need to worry who is better or not,…,? this year to that year,,…?
Terry Bradshaw was, and still is the “REIGNING JULIUS CEASAR of ALL Quarterbacks in the NFL”
“Jealously, gets you nowhere Colts fans’”
“…I’m thinking long, undiagnosed case of post-concussion brain trauma might be the only reason left as to why Bradshaw would write something like that….”
Actually, I’m thinkin’, the guy who calls himself “BigBlue Shoe”, and who wrote this article for “Bad Journalism”, has the “brain trauma”
Get some help dude ! A little Southern Comfort is good ’fer ’ya.
now!
Ba-bye!
by TBStillRulesTheNest on Jan 24, 2010 3:00 PM EST reply actions
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