Manning and Freeney part of All-Decade Team; Harrison and Saturday not?
by BigBlueShoe on Jan 28, 2010 1:22 PM EST
in Colts News
129 comments
It's nice that the NFL has added Peyton Manning and Dwight Freeney to the All-Decade team, which will be announced during the Pro Bowl. However, it seems two glaring omissions from the all-Decade team stand out could be Marvin Harrison and Jeff Saturday.
We know that Kevin Mawae is on the All-Decade team, which is, of course, ridiculous. Saturday is a superior center to Mawae by any measurement one can think of. Saturday has been selected to more AP All Pro teams, won a Super Bowl, and has been the starter on the greatest offense this decade. How Mawae got selected over Saturday baffles me.
And then there is Marvin Harrison. Who got selected over him? If the names Randy Moss or Terrell Owens appear on the list over Harrison, the list is a sham and a farce. Freeney and Manning should boycott it out of principle if those two jokers got selected over Marvin. If Hines Ward and Torry Holt got it over Marvin, that's fine. They put up great numbers and helped their teams win Super Bowls. Moss and Owens have never won anything, and both have stretches during the decade of ineptness. All-Decade suggests they were great for a decade, not five or six years.
Also, All-Decade should include Adam Vinatieri. Name me a greater clutch kicker from 2000-2009. This list kind of smells like a hack job.
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The league never said that Harrison wasn't on the All-Decade Team...
The league just announced only All-Decade Players who are playing or attending (Manning and Freeney) this years pro bowl. This is to just spice things up a little I think. I could be wrong, but is Saturday included as a Pro Bowler this year? If not, then he could represent that 2nd center spot. Also, 4 Wrs are included on the All-Decade Team. I’m almost positive Harrison will be on the team…not sure about Saturday though.
by ColtsFanNChiTown on Jan 28, 2010 1:33 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I hope you are right...
because if those two are left off…the all decade team is full of shit!!!
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
I'm just going off the what the article from the link said...
From Paul Kuharsky:
“Looking to get all the attention it can for a game now featuring seven percent of the NFL’s player population – and that’s not counting injured guys who passed or guys who could just declined — the league announced Wednesday that the rosters include a dozen members of the All-Decade team.
Those 12 include Titans center Kevin Mawae, who’s in the game only because Jeff Saturday has a Super Bowl commitment. The league also said Peyton Manning and Dwight Freeney, who will appear at the game with Saturday and other Colts and Saints Pro Bowlers, are on the team. "
From the League:
“This decade’s 53-player team will be comprised of two quarterbacks, four running backs, one fullback, four wide receivers, two tight ends, four offensive tackles, four guards, two centers, four defensive tackles, four defensive ends, six linebackers, four cornerbacks, four safeties, two kickers, two punters, two kick returners and two punt returners. Two head coaches have also been chosen.”
by ColtsFanNChiTown on Jan 28, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just re-reading...
it looks like Saturday will be left off the All-Decade Team.
by ColtsFanNChiTown on Jan 28, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
It's just a problem of timing
Harrison’s lights-out years were 1996-2006. That’s not really ‘enough’ of either decade. He’s a HoFer (unless the voters decide to focus on his car wash instead of his numbers) but he doesn’t slot nicely into an ‘All-Decade’ team.
Unfortunately
Moss’s best years excluding 2007, were essentially his first 2-3 years with Minnesota….then its pretty much just average seasons.
Owens had a few good years, but wasn’t consistently in the top 2-3 WR’s year in and year out….. Harrison meanwhile, wasn’t the best WR, but was usually in the discussion every year for about 7 seasons.
Keep in mind the All-Decade teams are 2000-2009.
by DevilsReject on Jan 28, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
But that's crap then isn't it.
If someone spans two decades they’re not as good. Especially since this type of stuff with come up during HoF voting. Harrison shouldn’t have a problem, but Saturday might if he misses out on this stuff.
Nobody's saying they're not good
I mean, it’s an arbitrary collection of players basically. Who the hell is gonna remember who was ‘all decade’ this or that?
To be honest...
I am not too surprised about Saturday…it really sucks (he is my favorite) but he has always been in Mawae’s shadow…wrongfully so. Who would be the second center? I will say this…Saturday is one of the most absolutely underrated players of his generation. All you hear about is Mawae…Ugh
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
You are seriously a homer. Look at the numbers this decade:
Moss- 777 catches, 11739 yards (15.1 YPC), 120 TD
TO- 784 catches, 11644 yards (14.9 YPC), 114 TD
Harrison- 791 catches, 10439 yards (13.2 YPC), 95 TD
Harrison did not help the team win a superbowl. He had a combined 15 catches 193 yards, 0 TD in 4 games. TO and Moss helped their teams win in the playoffs by actually producing which Harrison never did. How can you say that they had stretches of ineptness this decade, when Harrison was a liability in his last 2 seasons.
I didn’t even mention that Harrison played every season with one of the greatest QB’s ever while Moss had Culpepper, Collins, and Andrew Walter throwing him the ball.
Don't hold
Marvin playing with Peyton against him. Aaron Moorehad also played with Peyton, no one is raving about him but here’s my real gripe with your argument. Here are the numbers based on catches and yards – TD’s until the last two years were all in the double digits.
Marvin’s 3 worst seasons (excluding the injury plagued 2007):
2008 – 60 catches, 636 yards, and 5 TD’s
2005 – 82 catches, 1,146 yards, and 12 TD’s
2004 – 86 catches, 1,113 yards, and 15 TD’s
Randy Moss 3 worst seasons: (’04 & ’06 he only played 13 games)
2004 – 49 catches, 767 yards, and 13 TD’s
2005 – 60 catches, 1,005 yards, and 8 TD’s
2006 – 42 catches, 553 yards, and 3 TD’s
T.O.‘s numbers are really good and speak for themselves, I have no problem with him getting in but I’m sorry, I don’t believe Moss should. He gives up in some games and seasons. I mean look at his time in Oakland, the numbers are shit compared to the rest of his career. Harrison, while he may have been too stubborn to realize he’s injured, never gave up in a game or in a season. The WR position also is looked at by the flashiness of a player but what about running crisp routes, week in and week out, and doing so at a high level. Please scrap the post-season numbers because the fact is that T.O. and Randy Moss DID NOT win a ring. Harrison did but that doesn’t even matter because these teams are based on regular season numbers, IIRC.
But that’s my argument, good day!
Moss played 10 seasons this decade, while Harrison played 8.5. That counts for something, plus Moss sucked in Oakland because he had Anderw Walter throwing him the ball. Notice how he was better once he had a real QB. The Peyton Manning argument is legit. When Moss went to a QB on Peyton’s level, he had one of the best seasons ever. If he did that for a whole decade, he might have 150 TD’s this decade. You need to watch the games. Moss dominates the game like no other WR other than Rice has. He completely controls the coverage of the opponent to an extent that Harrison never did.
Please don't tell me to watch the games
I watch football to the point it might not even be healthy for me. Walter was there for 12 games in Oakland, started 9. Moss may “dominate the game like no other WR other than Rice has” but he also just flat out lays down for the opponent. I’d rather take a consistent performance out of Marvin Harrison than Randy Moss.
And half the reason Moss had the best season of his career with Brady in ‘07 was because they forcefed the WR’s the ball that year. They were up 50 plus points and still throwing the ball because they were “out for revenge,” God only knows for what.
This year, he had another solid year but nothing like ‘07. 2007 Moss excluded and his 9 years match up pretty similarly to Harrison’s 8.5.
There were only 2 games in '07 where the Patriots scored 50+ points
Against the Washington Redskins (52-7) Randy Moss had 3 receptions, 47 yards, 1 TD.
Against the Buffalo Bills (56-10) Randy Moss had 10 receptions, 128 yards, and 4 TDs (1 in the 1st qtr and 3 in the 2nd qtr) The 4th qtr scoring was rookie Kyle Eckel on a 1-yard rush and an Ellis Hobbs fumble return for a TD.
Keep the faith!
He's just making an example
Why you take it as something serious?
Quitters never win, but cheaters sometimes do
It really was just an example
Maybe Moss didn’t receive TD’s late in those games but I know, because I watched it, that in the Redskins/Pats game they were throwing while up 40+ points so please don’t make it seem like the Holy Patriots ran the ball in the 2nd half of their big wins in 2007.
it's all good
unless you’re worried a couple of clarifying facts would negate your example.
Keep the faith!
I'm not getting how he lays down for the opponent.
If you’re going to use that Moss played with Brady, Harrison played with Peyton. Moss also made Culpepper look pretty good, same with Cunningham.
Moss has a legit case, and I don’t have to base it off intangibles.
by huevonkiller on Jan 28, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Hi
You are seriously have no idea what you are talking about:
Factor in that Marvin Harrison did not play in the 2009 season (which is factored into those numbers above) and only played in 5 games in 2007 because of injury. That’s nearly a two year disadvantage Harrison has, and yet he STILL has more catches than both Moss and Owens. Had Harrison not been hurt in 2007, his numbers would destroy Moss and Owens, making this conversation even more moot than it already is.
Also, please name the playoff game where TO helped his team win in the playoffs. I know you aren’t going to mention the 2004 Eagles playoff run, because Owens sat out that run with an injury. He played in the Super bowl against the Patriots, and lost.
Also, name me the playoff game where Moss helped his team win. Don’t tell me 2007 (where he caught 23 TDs in the regular season). Moss caught a total of TWO passes in both the Divisional and AFCCG that season. In the Super Bowl, he was a non-factor most of the game, and ended up losing it.
Please, if you are going to talk smack, back ti up with something tangible. Otherwise, you’re another skull I’ll toss onto the pile.
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Exactly.
Top receivers face elite defenses that double and triple cover them in the playoffs. Marvin still had some important catches in playoff games, even if they weren’t touchdowns.
Marvin should be on any All-Decade WR team. Hopefully, the list is incomplete.
Brady was a non factor in that Superbowl also, though.
He missed Moss deep a couple of times, I know one time for sure. He was off in the game prior to that as well.
by huevonkiller on Jan 28, 2010 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
What does that have
anything to do with anything?
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: THE COLTS ARE IN THE SUPER BOWL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's what I was trying to say
just not as well. I don’t understand how anyone can question Harrison vs. Moss. Moss has great numbers, I’m not doubting that but people are very quick to skim over Marvin and I bet part of it is because he’s no primadonna.
No that's not why.
This guy called Peyton is the reason.
by huevonkiller on Jan 28, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Okay, I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguing
but do you really believe that Peyton Manning is the only reason Marvin Harrison is as good as he is? I mean in that case, we do have mediocre wideouts but because they play with Peyton that’s why they’re so good. Come on, that’s just ridiculous. Manning is a hell of a player, best QB I’ve ever seen play but let’s be honest the weapons that the team has surrounded him with help him be as good as he can be just as much as he helps others.
Ok but my point is that I would love to have Moss on this team.
by huevonkiller on Jan 28, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'm happy with
and have been happy with the skill players that have been on this team. I don’t need/want Randy Moss on the Colts…
EVER
Yeah he was so awful in 2007?
We should have gotten him for that bargain, he clearly isn’t a cancer on an elite team. Marvin was in 07 and 08.
by huevonkiller on Jan 28, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Did you read my posts from above?
Because I addressed 2007 and I’m not stupid enough to deny he had a great season.
Yeah you said something about "excluding" 07. Why should I?
Yeah the Pats ran up the score, adjust for pass attempts then. Moss still had an exceptional season.
by huevonkiller on Jan 28, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
why was harrison a cancer in 07 n 08?
the guy never talks to the media…just wonderin
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I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Hurt his knee early in '07...
FO kept stringing us along the entire season and when he did come back, he had a huge drop in the playoffs v. San Diego. In ‘08 you could see (at least I could) that he wasn’t laying all out like he used to in order to make a catch. It looked to me that he was worried about getting hurt again.
Sad, cause I’ll always adore him. It was a crappy way for him to go out, imo.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jan 29, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
He fumbled in a playoff game, had to be taken out due to injury shortly after.
Did not recover in 2008 either, the offense was smoother without him.
by huevonkiller on Jan 29, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Also Moss is more dominant, and played more years in this decade.
He’s clearly been the best WR in these ten years.
by huevonkiller on Jan 28, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Marvin's production wasn't
quite as good before Manning got there, that’s for sure, but it was still good enough that you can see he was a great receiver. They did so well together because they worked hard to be good together. Once Marvin started to slow down, they couldn’t keep it up. But Marvin and Peyton were a symbiotic relationship.
Also, look at someone like Garçon. Marvin spent a good deal of time with him last year helping him and working with him. If he reminds you of Marvin sometimes, it’s because he taught him.
I’m not really sure what my point is, but I hope when the full list is revealed Marvin’s on there.
I agree that Peyton makes people around him better
but Marvin Harrison was a highly talented receiver and they really only played separate from each other for 1 year, where he had decent numbers 60 for 800+ and 8 TD’s isn’t too shabby. People forget that Marvin put so much work in with Peyton. Peyton does a lot of work to prepare for games and matchups but so did Harrison and I don’t think that should be overlooked. End all, be all they’re going to be linked together forever.
Garçon reminds me a lot of Reggie actually. I think he’s got great potential and I think he could live up to it if he continues to improve the way he has over the course of this season.
I hope he’s on there too!
iunno but...
catching a touchdown with 2 min left to take the lead in the SB seems pretty important. I mean last time I checked moss didn’t play def on the giants winning drive.
by lololol on Jan 28, 2010 3:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah but the Pats
were also the same team that were shocked some Giants D players said they’d only score 17 points and hey they didn’t even get that much. The almighty offense floundered when it mattered most.
Tangibles for Moss and Owens
Moss set a record for most TD’s in a season, had 2 horrible QB’s until he got to NE and had coverage constantly rolled his way.
Owens contributions in the post season, how about that amazing catch in the 1997 playoff where 2 defends hit him the moment he caught the ball and he still hanged on? Or him playing in a Super Bowl with a partially healed broken ankle because he knew that gave him the best shot of winning. The eagles defense gave up that game. Last I checked, he played offense.
Harrison was a good WR, but not a decade best. You have Moss, Owens, Donald Driver, Hines Ward, Torry Holt, and Larry Fitzgerald.
I didn't know 1997 was in this decade...and thank you for ignoring everything written here.
Driver? You can make the same for and against arguements with him that you can with Harrison, and most of the people you have listed didn’t even play the whole decade.
by vintagephoenix on Jan 29, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if before last season
half the country even knew who Larry Fitzgerald was – He’s an AMAZING WR but not a decade best. He’s barely done anything to deserve that honor if you look at his career as a whole. Driver being on his list is a joke and even Torry Holt can be put in same shoes as Harrison except he didn’t win a ring this decade!
Moss
Ok, truth of the matter is, if Owens would have had Manning for 10 years, his numbers would have torched Harrisons numbers. But, he didn’t, and you have to play with the guys on your team that is on the field.
If Moss would have played with Manning for 10 years, Indy would currently hold the record for most Super Bowl wins. The one thing Moss brings to the position is Michael Irvin’s philosophy. If it touches you hands, you better catch it. Moss has pulled down some crazy catches. Like the one against Miami in 07 when he had 2 defends on him and caught it in his ear hole while penalty flags were being thrown for defensive pass interference. Moss quit on Oakland when the WHOLE TEAM had quit.
No, if Peyton had had NE's Defense for most of the last ten years, he would have 10 rings.
Harrison’s got plenty of amazing catches as well.
Michael Irvin’s no role model for anything but how to party and take drugs, and then get cleaned up for church on Sunday morning.
Moss only puts out effort when it suits him, not the team.
by vintagephoenix on Jan 29, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously
Harrison might have glue for hands – someone posted a mixtape of Harrison’s from youtube which was amazing and one of my favorite Marv catches was against the Pats on the side of the endzone tiptoeing to stay in bounds catching the ball and then spiking it. Loved that.
If we are going to mention that Marvin played with an all-time great QB, then what about Rice? While i do agree that Rice is th GOAT of recievers, people never argue against him because of his QBs, but with Marvin its different right?
Pro-football-reference did an article about that.
Pro-rated for 16 games in his prime, Rice averaged like 1500 yards and 10 TDs (over 20 something games in his prime) when Young and Montana were injured. I’ll get the link later if you want.
by huevonkiller on Jan 28, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Just to add...Who do you think 88 looked up to, and recieved advice from?
Yep, you guessed it, the GOAT.
by vintagephoenix on Jan 29, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Vinatieri
Vinatieri’s clutch reputation is ridiculous. Matt Stover has been a better kicker than him this decade. No one remembers that Vinatieri missed 2 FG’s in SB 39 or that he missed a FG in SB 41. Stover has a better career FG% in the playoffs than Vinatieri and has been better this decade in the playoffs. Stover has been the 2nd most accurate kicker of this decade (0.1% behind Kaeding), while Vinatieri is 4% behind Stover, which is a significant gap.
i agree
While i remember his clutch kicks and all…
I also remember the two misses in SB 39
the missed kick in SB 41
the missed kick to beat the chargers after that epic comeback in the 07 season.
by minigenius1246 on Jan 28, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Stop writing stupid crap
I very much like Matt Stover, but Adam Vinaiteri won two Super Bowls on last second FGs. He set a playoff record in 2006 with 5 FGs in one game and everyone remembers the clutch kick in the snow over the Raiders.
Vinatieri is the best kicker this decade, period.
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He's so CLUTCHY!!!!
I enjoy your counter agrument is “Stop writing stupid crap”
Insert Clever Statement Here
Agreed
If Harrison is not listed as the best receiver, for Colts fans we know it is a BS list, but even for neutral fans it would definitely be controversial.
However, any list that held out AV is a complete mockery. Some cowboys/niners/vikings/pats fans would have their arguments for TO and Moss, which would be wrong, but if there is a single person who did not see AV as the best kicker of this decade, they are out of their freaking minds and should not be allowed to comment on football.
I hate the Pats, but he was arguably more valuable to them then Brady. They won their three Super Bowls by a combined 9 pts, 3 pts in each game. Without Vinny, I don’t think they win all three. They certainly would not have won the first one, and AV should have been named MVP of that game. He also got them there by his tough kick in the snow in the tuck rule game.
"A lot of times, Kenny, we have no idea what we're doing. But the DEFENSE doesn't know that we don't know what we're doing.....and that's next level." -Peyton Manning
plus....no one remembers the 40 + yarder and the 24 yarder against oakland in snow in 01???
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
i love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
wow, how mature
you’re maybe the most biased writer i have ever seen. ok, sure, that is hyperbole, but you are definitely the most childish.
"I throw him four wide ones then try to pick him off first base." - Preacher Roe on Stan Musial
by Shi on Jan 29, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Clutch being....
The key word. Vinateri hasn’t missed a game winning field goal in the Super Bowl, he is 2 for 2. Had he made those other 2 and 1 who knows how it would have changed the game.
When will the full team be announced?
"Pressure is something you feel when you don't know what the hell you're doing."
-Peyton Manning
LOL
Six of one half dozen of the other. It’s a dog and pony show who cares. I seriously doubt Harrison or Saturday are lying awake at night worrying about this crap. LOL But let the debate rage on, it’s entertaining
Kuharsky
Just said in his ESPN chat that they NFL has only announced players who are on this year’s Pro Bowl team and the others will be announced later. So since Saturday was Pro Bowler this year, we can — unfortunately — rule him out. Still hope for Marv though.
by ATX Colts Fan on Jan 28, 2010 3:34 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
not trying to hate here but I find it ironic...
that some colts fans are pointing to rings as why Harrison is better than moss or TO and downplaying reg season stats. Meanwhile they look down at that arguement when ppl have the manning v. Brady debates. I guess rings only matter when you want them to matter.
by lololol on Jan 28, 2010 3:57 PM EST via mobile reply actions 5 recs
lol
rec’d
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jan 28, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Not quite
Manning has far superior Regular Season stats to Brady, and it isn’t really close. That’s why it is dumb to say “3>1”, so Brady > Manning.
In this case, as you can see by the numbers above, Harrison, Moss, and Owens have pretty similar numbers in the regular season. Playoff success could be seen as a tie breaker. Marvin Harrison played on a team that won a Super Bowl, while the other two did not.
Huge difference.
Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.
Moss has better numbers in the regular season though.
It doesn’t matter even if he played with the second best QB every year from 2000-2010, that guy is still not Peyton.
I agree that people should take into account his numbers more, instead of “rings” or whatever. That should be the first barometer always. Marvin wasn’t around for three years at the end, that is another large problem.
by huevonkiller on Jan 28, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Not 3 years, it's 1.5
Harrison didn’t play this season and missed half of 2007 otherwise he played every other time possible.
Ok, but he messed up the Colts in 07 and 08.
We would have been better off without him completely those seasons.
And in 09 didn’t get picked up because of his contract demands.
by huevonkiller on Jan 28, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Soooo
who likes dogs in here? I think my favorite kind of dog is the medium sized squirrely type dog that loves to cuddle. my ex-girlfriend has this rad dog that likes to attack crackheads. This one time a crackhead side hi to me as i was walking by him. the damn dog jumped up and snapped at the crackheads throat—he was definitely going for the kill. oh wait, this is he wrong forum…my bad
So TO makes list as best receiver
and once again proves himself to be an ungrateful, egotistical ass clown by saying he would have been better than Jerry Rice had he played with good quarterbacks. Wow. Given recognition that he does not deserve as the best receiver of the decade over better receivers Harrison and Moss, neither of whom drop several easy passes per game, and you can somehow manage to still be a buffoon? I guess he couldn’t bite his tongue for long.
You never would have been better than Rice, TO, because Rice was actually a class act who showed respect to his teammates, coaches, fans, and especially his quarterbacks. He never whined to the media and always let his hard work and on field play do the talking. He didn’t ever drop easy passes and then blame his quarterback. He didn’t complain when you started to get the primary share of looks from Steve Young, and in fact complemented you on your skills.
FYI, you played with the same damn QB Rice did in Steve Young, who is a hall of famer, as well as Jeff Garcia, who is a very good QB, Donovan McNabb, also a very good QB, and Romo, who gets better every year. Did you work with those QBs to get better and develop a rapport? Did you respect them and let them lead the team? Nope. You called Garcia a “queer” in an ultra classy move. You single handedly imploded what was a very good Eagles team by trying to constantly berate and talk down to your QB, yelling at him on the sidelines of what was the biggest game of both your careers, and then bitched about it to the media. The Patriots are thankful. Tony Romo, who never once talked bad about you, when he very well should/could have, has gotten world’s better without you.
It is BS he is listed as the best receiver of the decade over Harrison, but his “gratitude” is so disgusting it makes me hope he never sees football glory again, aka, stays in buffalo. I feel sorry for what Brian Brohm or possibly Jimmy Clausen will have to deal with if he stays with them.
(Note: if he said this in sarcasm, then sorry for the rant, but i only read the transcript, and it sounded like he was serious).
"A lot of times, Kenny, we have no idea what we're doing. But the DEFENSE doesn't know that we don't know what we're doing.....and that's next level." -Peyton Manning
Jeff Saturday
belongs, if for nothing else, his ultra-cool name. In all seriousness, Saturday is a magnificent center and as great as Peyton is he needs an outstanding line in front of him. Oh well, we Broncos fans know a thing or 7 million about being screwed (John Elway is the only full-time Bronco in the Hall of Fame, ridiculous). Thus, I have empathy for you. Oh well, it’s a lot more fun to win the Super Bowl.
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jan 28, 2010 7:47 PM EST reply actions
I know I'm late but...
If Peyton was the reason why Marvin was so good then why didn’t we keep Moorehead or Jerome Pathon around and just have them post the same numbers Marvin did? Should we expect Hank Baskett to have a break out year next year? I think the fact is that Moss could’ve been better than Marvin but his motivation, work ethic, and preparation stopped him from being so.
by 35er on Jan 28, 2010 9:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
True, Peyton can make any receiver have better numbers than they would with any other human quarterback, but how many receivers have you seen with route-running skills like this?
by AbroadColtsFan on Jan 29, 2010 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
Didn't Marvin Harrison
catch the two point conversion in the ‘06 AFC Championship Game? That’s the one insanely vital catch I recall him having during that playoff run.
That is Bach and it rocks, its a rock block of Bach
by Prince Lawrence Waverly on Jan 28, 2010 10:23 PM EST reply actions
Look I think Harrison deserves a spot on the -
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
by P0RKINS2 on Jan 28, 2010 10:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Fucking IPhone Keyboard!!!!
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
by P0RKINS2 on Jan 28, 2010 10:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He deserves a spot on an Iphone Keyboard?
I agree!
In football, the object is for the quarterback, otherwise known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his recievers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use the shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.
In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! "I hope I'll be safe at home!"
-George Carlin (RIP)
As I was saying...
I think Harrison deserves a spot on the team yet Moss is the better receiver and it’s not that close. When he’s giving 100% effort. That’s the difference between he and Marvin. Yet, when Moss wants to be, he is the most dominant receiver I have ever seen. (I never saw Rice play) I will also say that I don’t think Harrison would’ve been nearly as dominant a player without Peyton Manning as his Quarterback. The numbers back it up. I love Marvin. Yet I don’t think he’d be a Future Hall of Famer w/o Manning, he’d have had a good career yet he wouldn’t have been the player we all know and love w/o Manning. Yet Moss has had success with multiple quarterbacks. I’d take Harrison on my team every time yet there is no question, just my opinion, that Moss is definitely the better receiver.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
by P0RKINS2 on Jan 28, 2010 10:38 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Okay, just to clarify
You’re saying Moss is the better receiver…I agree to a point. He’s the more physically gifted of the two. But as far as better receiver (or football player), I’m sticking with Harrison. The guy was that good because of hard work and timing with a great quarterback. You can say that he wouldn’t have had as good of numbers with another quarterback, but the fact is that Manning wouldn’t have as good of numbers with another receiver. ANY other receiver, for that matter. How many times do you think Moss would show up 3 hours early to a game to run the ridiculous tree of routes him and Marvin used to do?
The answer is ZERO. I’d hate to see a receiver with Moss’s physical attributes and Harrison’s spectacular catch ability and dedication.
by AbroadColtsFan on Jan 29, 2010 1:07 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly my point.
Moss is a more physically gifted receiver and Harrison was a much better teamate and had a better work ethic and I would take him on my team every time. Now I think that Manning would not have been as successful early in his career w/o Harrison yet I think Manning coul’ve been just as good as he was from 2004 on w/o him. (I’ll stand by that statement.) I think that Manning still had more of an effect on Harrison’s career than Harrison’s career had on Manning. I’m not saying that he didn’t have a big impact on his career, just look at the numbers, yet I still think that Manning had more to do with Harrison’s success. (Just my opinion.) Now just imagine if Manning had been paired with Moss and Moss had Harrison’s work ethic. (Mind wanders thinking of how many Superbowls could’ve been won AND how many MORE records Manning would have…) Yet, I still think that Harrison’s play seemed to digress in the playoffs. (Numbers back it up) I know he was getting double most of the time yet he was doubled in the regular season as well and still had success. Manning has set several playoff records yet Harrison has only 3 TDs in 16 career games. Harrison was vital in opening things up for Clark in the 2006 Superbowl Run yet I still think that his lack of production is somewhat telling considering Manning’s statistical production in the Postseason compared to his. But I will say that I wouldn’t want any other receiver on my team and I think Manning would agree with me.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
by P0RKINS2 on Jan 29, 2010 1:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
When did TO say that? I hate to break it to you, but Jerry Rice was a pretty big Prima Donna. He whined and complained when things didn’t go his way.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...he sure as hell didn't in the press.
On the sideline, sure, but every single offensive player in sports does that. He never threw a teammate under the bus either.
by vintagephoenix on Jan 29, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Marvin Harrison
Some of you are overrating Harrison’s contributions and using strawman arguments. No one here said that Marvin Harrison would be nothing without Peyton. What people are saying is that Harrison would have been a lot less productive if he didn’t have one of the greatest QB’s ever throwing him the ball. If he had Daunte Culpepper, Kerry Collins, Matt Cassel, and Andrew Walter throwing him the ball for a significant portion of the decade, his numbers would take a huge hit.
For the people who are saying that Harrison made big postseason catches, Name one other than the 2 Point conversion? He disappeared in the playoffs. When someone plays 16 postseason games with 2 TD (both in the same game), something is wrong.
I was just saying
that was the only one that stood out in my mind (the 2-point conversion, which WAS pretty huge).
He was ALL-DECADE though, no doubt. Whether he was #1 or #4 is pretty irrelevant.
That is Bach and it rocks, its a rock block of Bach
by Prince Lawrence Waverly on Jan 29, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
refer to my comment like 3 up
where I said that it’s true Harrison wouldn’t be as good without Manning, but Manning wouldn’t be as good without Harrison.
Disagree with me please so I can get the numbers to prove you wrong.
I’m just going to put the first one out there…
143 catches in one season? That wasn’t Manning throwing to a receiver that wasn’t open 143 times, that was Marv getting open and Manning getting him the effin’ ball.
by AbroadColtsFan on Jan 29, 2010 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
Manning is fine now without Harrison. He put up good numbers in 2007 without Harrison. He put up decent numbers in 2008, with a washed up Harrison. This season, he put up an MVP season without Harrison.
Yeah
Touche, but the Colts still have a WAAAAAY above average receiving corps. It came out of nowhere too…We have Dallas Clark and Reggie Wayne. Try to tell me that those guys would be average on any other team, with any other quarterback.
by AbroadColtsFan on Jan 29, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Ahem, Daunte Culpepper was the QB of the '98 Vikings.
It’s not his fault he got hurt.
Kerry Collins played in a Super Bowl (didn’t win…but that’s not all him)
Matt Cassel won 11 games coming off the bench when the NE defense wasn’t quite dead.
The fact is, you can’t make declarations about how someone would or wouldn’t have played with other players, it’s opinion, not fact.
Marvin has the record for most catches in a season and had 4 straight seasons with over 100 catches, who else has done that? He had 7 straight seasons over 1000 yards. Thats all I need to know.
by vintagephoenix on Jan 29, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Cunningham was the QB not Culpepper.
Culpepper became QB in 2000.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
by P0RKINS2 on Feb 3, 2010 6:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This is retarded....
Marvin Harrison is TWICE the WR that Randy Moss is.
Why is Moss so great? He just runs down field and they lob the ball to him. He doesn’t run great routes, he really doesn’t go across the middle, and god forbid that he not get the ball. And people want to talk about 2007 like it’s a big deal. It’s not.
Peyton sat out about the equivalent of 1.5 games that season with early huge leads and they let Sorgi take some snaps. Even better, he chose to take a knee in the Ravens game despite being within scoring distance with plenty of time on the clock. What was Brady doing? He was coming back into a game that he had a 28pt lead because the other team finally scored a TD. He was just heaving hail mary’s to Moss.
Despite all that, it took the final game of the year to break both Mannings and Rice’s record…..despite Manning/Rice doing it in fewer games. Oh, and people want to disrespect Culpepper….but if not for Manning’s career year in 2004, he would have set the single season QB rating record that year. Culpepper was a beast until he blew out his knee.
Say what you want about TO, but the guy is a gamer. Oh, and while he didn’t win a SB ring….his performance against the Patriots on what amounts to one good wheel….was classic. He shredded that defense and put up hella yards. I’d take him over Moss any day, because at least with TO you get a ball hog who wants the ball and doesn’t quit on you. Sure, he’s a douche, but at least you know he won’t quit on the game….
I don’t think anyone here is really trying to say Harrison is the best WR of the last decade…..but I can think of guys who have outperformed even Moss….such as Andre Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald…..
I am
trying to say Marv is the greatest of the last decade. You have to take into account that Marvin played alongside Marshall Faulk, Edgerrin James, Marcus Pollard, Dallas Clark, Brandon Stokely and Reggie Wayne…At least two of those guys every year. You take that away and Manning has to look his way more often…it’s almost scary what kind of numbers he’d have.
by AbroadColtsFan on Jan 29, 2010 1:30 AM EST up reply actions
Harrison was really the only passing option in the offense from 1999-2002. That’s when he put up his good numbers.
Really
2003 – 10 TDs
2004 – 15 TDs
2005 – 12 TDs
2006 – 12 TDs
You’re right, he only put up his good numbers 1999-2002.
Taking my reply out of context. His greatest numbers came from 99-02. He put up pretty good numbers from 03-06, but not as good because other receivers emerged like Wayne, Stokley, and Clark.
Uhhh...Yeah?
Did you just prove my point?
by AbroadColtsFan on Jan 29, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
I took your reply out of context
but you go ahead and try to make the same point. Harrison had CONSISTENTLY GOOD YEARS from 1999-2006.
End
of
Story
HOMERVILLE
i’m a colts fan and it is very clear you Harrison supporters have a bias…….on the one hand; you complain that Moss and T.O. don’t have super bowl wins…on the other hand, it seems ok that Manning was chosen over Brady despite winning 2 less SBs
Also, you excuse Harrison for his injury plagued year but forget to mention that Moss battled injuries from 2004-2006….of course no one knows he was injured because all the talk was about was his “apathy”
And what about him playing with Peyton Manning his entire career? What was Harrison doing before Manning came along? absolutely nothing thats what…….look at Moss his rookie year playing with the 2nd string QB….All Pro season
While Moss has been playing with nobodies til 2007, Harrison had the luxury of arguably the best QB ever his ENTIRE career…not to mention he doesn’t have to build chemistry….and the same system and coaches……i could go on and on…..
Of course the dumbest argument of all- that being surrounded by talent is somehow a disadvantage—wow—can u say a bit of a stretch?….logic says the less talent there is on the field, the more coverage would roll his way…come on ppl use your head…
The All-Decade team is based on who is best; not whose team did best or who tried the hardest…..its not even an argument who the most talented WR ever is
by ysoserious on Jan 29, 2010 2:33 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Quick question
Who was on the All-Decade team from 1970-79? 80-89? 90-99? Ok, so this is just some bs thing they are doing to draw in more revenue. Just like the Hall of Fame. I know, I know, NOT the HoF!! But, they have and will continuously leave some all time greats out of it for no reason at all. How is Bob “Bullet” Hayes not in there?!? Sorry, seperate rant.
Vinatieri
Some of you are too biased with the Vinatieri love. Matt Stover has been a lot better in the regular season and has a better FG% in the playoffs.
Marvin a cancer?
I noticed someone called Marvin a cancer for us in 07. He must have been a huge cancer on a team that went 13-3. Trying in 2 of the losses. Ok he fumbled against the chargers in the playoffs. Doesnt mean he was a cancer. The guy makes one mistake after coming back from an injury (he didnt hurt the team by trying to play hurt and being a handicapped football player on the field) and he’s a cancer? No. Marvin is the definition of an all decade player. Carried by Peyton Manning? Did you people SEE the touchdown catch against New England in 06? Yeah peyton made a perfect catch there didnt he? No. that was ALL marvin. How many times did Peyton overthrow a wide open 88 in 2008? Especially in the beginning. Peyton was hurt. He missed preseason. He was rusty, Marvin was wide open. Not Marv’s fault. Remember 4th down against the chargers in the 08 playoffs? When marvin saved peyton’s ass catching a horribly thrown ball behind him? Dont get me wrong, Peyton Manning is the best QB to ever play the game, but Marvin Harrison is no slouch. And just throwing this out there…Reggie Wayne has the most recieving yards in the NFL since 2004. Just sayin. Not a whole decade but a damn good performance.
He wasn't a cancer in the locker room, but our offense suffered at the end of the year since he was done.
Call it whatever word you want, no one really brought up his personality. He hurt our team in 2007, hopefully if you’re hurt like that one would realize they need to get off the field from the start. A difficult situation but since this is the All-Decade team, he didn’t help the Colts in the last three years.
Wayne and Gonzalez also played with the injured Manning in 2008, and were better than Marvin. Marvin was thrown at 28 more times than Gonzalez and had less yardage according to football outsiders, so it wasn’t all Peyton missing him. I felt he should have taken a pay cut to stay here after how we supported him, but whatever it doesn’t matter.
by huevonkiller on Jan 30, 2010 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
Marvin wasn't Marvin
in 2007 or 2008 but to say he didn’t help the team in the last three years is ridiculous. His 2006 season was great.
The last three years of the decade, not 2006.
by huevonkiller on Jan 30, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
He didn't help the Colts this past year
because he wasn’t on the team, kinda impossible to help when you don’t play
dangerous criteria
while I often agree with many of the points made here by the main contributors I think “we” as a colts community are on very dangerous ground suggesting that Holt and HInes are better than Moss and T.O. Quite simply put, they are not. It’s close but if we are saying that H&H are better than Moss and TO because they have won titles then we cannot ( if we are to be more sane and logical than other fans) in the same breath argue that Manning is better than Brady. My personal opinion is that Super Bowl championships are too heavily weighted in the conversation, especially in the era of the salary cap. All great players have to win once to validate, which is why most fans will now agree that Peyton is better than Marino, but one is as good as 4 in the era of free agency and hard salary caps. Manning’s number dwarf Brady’s in all but one category, let us not forget that Moss and TO are not only idiots, but first ballot HOFers as well.
by raleighcolts on Jan 30, 2010 5:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
+12/18/81/88
Agreed.
Offensive Coordinator > Guard > Tackle > DE > OLB > RB > WR > CB
by Richard Hill on Jan 31, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
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