Why Wes Welker's injury does not vindicate Bill Polian
by Brad Wells on Jan 4, 2010 8:05 AM EST
in Colts Analysis
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PrintWhile many of us are waking up this morning from the party that was the 2009 NFL regular season, one of the silly sentiments circling the Internets is that the potentially devastating knee injury to Patriots receiver Wes Welker during his team's "meaningless" game against the Texans vindicates Bill Polian for resting key starters against the Jets despite fan, media, and player outcry. Gary Lawless at the Winnipeg Free Press shares this sentiment, but does a poor job defending it with logic:
New England entered the game with far more to lose than to gain and those possibilities were realized when Welker went down. New England was guaranteed a home playoff game heading into the game and with a win could have moved up a seed. Big deal.Now they have to play without one of their key offensive weapons and the word "crippling" was getting tossed around following the injury by the talking heads.
You cannot tell me, and if you did I wouldn't believe you, that fans would not have raged at Bill Polian and Jim Caldwell had they left Peyton Manning in these final two games and he'd been hurt.
Like all simplistic opinions that don't take into account all the facts (gee, I just sounded like Polian with that remark), Gary Lawless just doesn't know what he's talking about. The Patriots v. Texans game very much meant something. It affected the standings for both teams, and could have significant ramifications down the line in the playoffs. Again, the definition of a "meaningless game," according to Gary Lawless's patron saint (Polian), is a game that does not affect the standings (and whose historical significance is only made "important" by Colts front office brass; not fans, media, players, rest of human kind).
Had the Patriots won the game and secured the #3 seed, it could have benefited them down the line if the Colts and Chargers failed to win their first playoff game. Based on the recent history of those two teams, not having both in this year's AFC Championship Game is a very real possibility. And of all teams, I'm sure the Patriots realize the importance of the #3 seed over the #4 seed. In 2006, the #3 seeded Colts defeated the #2 seeded Ravens in the playoffs. The next days, the #4 seeded Patriots defeated the #1 seeded Chargers. This meant the AFC Championship Game would be held in Indianapolis, not Foxboro.
We all know what happened in that game. Maybe Gary Lawless forgot.
The bottom line here is Welker was hurt playing in a "meaningful" game by any standard valued. The fact that Welker was hurt without being hit or touched adds to the notion that this is not an example of a significant player going down in a "meaningless" game. This is football. Injuries happen, and they are never convenient. And if Gary Lawless, or anyone else, is advocating that teams sit players in meaningful games now, then why even bother playing the Week Seventeen games in the first place? Why bother playing football period? Let's remove the pads and helmets, give the players flags to tuck into their shorts, and call it a day.
And when another Welker-like player blows out his knee making a seemingly routine cut while playing this new National FLAG Football League game, I'm sure someone will scream about that as well.
Seriously, Welker's injury is no different than Bob Sanders going down after the second Texans game, or Anthony Gonzalez going down in Week One. Fluke injuries happen. This is a contact sport, and even when there is no contact, that does not guarantee an injury-free day at the office. Steve Krause at The Daily Item sums it up well:
The thinking on this goes that if you sit your players out, you'll save them from being injured. OK. Fair enough.
But Welker got hurt planting his left good so he could make a cut - something he probably does several times a day at practice. He just happened to do it in a game.
Fluke injuries know no pattern. They don't distinguish between games and practices. And this is just one more reason why you accomplish nothing by intentionally giving games away.
So please, save me the speeches about how Welker's injury validates Polian and his decision to quit on an undefeated season. If Bill Polian uses this injury as an example of why one should sit players late in the season, I might just lose my mind and take hostages.This would be just more double-speak from Polian, changing the goal posts to suit his own narrow view of things and save face after a week of consistently shooting himself in the foot. The only thing that will validate Polian's approach is a Super Bowl victory this season; nothing less.
According to Peter King, Roger Goodell was "angry" last week after he witnessed the Colts intentionally lose a game just about everyone on the planet (sans Polian) thought was important. Consider this, and then re-think how Goodell would feel if he saw the Patriots intentionally throw a game that actually meant something.
The Welker injury validates nothing except maybe that football injuries are as much a part of the game as the ball is, and playing scared is not a proven philosophy that wins.
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BBS
Why does the Jets game matter anymore, considering that due to the weather yesterday, no one would have wanted our starters to play the whole game? With that forecast there was never any chance of going 16-0. Before they played the Jets, the long-term forecast showed snow and cold in Buffalo. Going undefeated just wasn’t going to happen.
"If you don't [draft me], I promise you I'll come back and kick your ass for the next 15 years."
by psvirsky on Jan 4, 2010 8:30 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
THANK YOU
Summed u nicely!
Get over it, BBS.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jan 4, 2010 8:43 AM EST up reply actions
"if he saw the Patriots intentionally throw a game"
We just did. They pulled their starters in the Houston game. I know that there appears to be no outcry about it but they did intentionally throw that game. So they lost an important player in a game they decided was not important. I don’t know why everyone is so focused on this issue but I wish we could move on.
Please BBS, leave it alone. You are becoming a joke. The cynic in me says that you are doing it for page views, and to be honest I hope that is true. Because if it’s not true you really are a hypocritical, pompous, internet bully who uses sleazy technics and “seemingly” has no understanding of logic or factual arguments.
At least give us a date when you are going to start talking about the very real and very interesting subject of playoff football.
by kasey_junk on Jan 4, 2010 8:18 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Patriots
They were up two TDs in the fourth quarter, only to blow the lead. Hell, they took Brady and out and then reinserted him despite Brady playing with broken ribs and a fractured index finger.
They didn’t throw the game; not on the same level as the Colts against the Jets.
Next time, tell me to “leave it alone” when you have have something that backs up your claim.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
Dude...
I’m with you…but you really should let it go. Lets look forward to the playoffs.
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
With 1:54 to play, the ball, on the 34 yard line, down 7 they took out their HOF QB
And played a backup QB with no NFL experience. This tells me they did not want to win, or they didn’t want to pay the price of winning.
I’m ok with this, I don’t think this is a bad decision on their part, what I don’t understand is how you and the rest of the media think this is ok, but we have to scream and shout about the Colts decision for 2 weeks.
Instead of talking about the very real problem of the health of our kicker, or the interesting topics of how we match up to the other play off teams, you keep beating this horse using your own twisted definition of what is happening in the wider world.
Whatever, I’m over it. It’s not my job to drive hits here, but I can tell you, from my perspective you are ruining what was once a pretty good blog.
You have become a joke, BBS. A demagogue. I’m done with this blog. I’ll be spending my time on 18to88, where the analysis more rational and less incendiary.
while 18to88 has ended their coverage of
Ass-on-bench, 2009, they agree with BBS, in principle. The only thing they have disagreed with is BBS’ calling Polian and Caldwell ‘cowards’.
So I find it hard to believe that all the people that are here saying, “omg 18to88 is so much better”, are really disagreeing with BBS, they are just unable to handle seeing these posts. If thats the case, its not a BBS issue, its a reader issue.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
They didn't throw the game on the same level as the Colts against the Jets
Agreed…
But putting in Hoyer to attempt a game-tying two-minute drill is not “trying to win”. That’s giving your backups valuable playing time – and I do not have a problem with that.
But you will never convince me that it’s ok for the Patriots to NOT try to win a game while it’s a disgrace when the Colts don’t try to do it…
I’m almost willing to bet that if Hoyer had in fact gotten the Patriots to the end zone Belichick would’ve attempted a two-point conversion, to get the game finished – win or lose didn’t matter. Getting through the rest of the game did.
Why he put Brady back in, I don’t understand, but that’s up to Belichick. Fact of the matter is: Blowing (not intentionally) a 14-point lead and taking out Brady when they need a TD + PAT to tie the game with less than two minutes to go is NOT trying to win a game!
by pmj on Jan 4, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
no..we didn't throw the game...we just played musical chairs w. TB and the back up qb Hoyer
though players who were injured except for TB were inactive
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Okay, so fighting for the 3rd seed makes it a meaningful game....
That doesn’t impugn the logic of the Colts resting their starters in a meaningless game, which the Jets game clearly was. Seriously, the Jets game was 9 days ago. Why is anyone still upset about this!?
Because it is significant
The reason people like me keep bringing it up is because people keep talking about it. If you’d prefer that I ignore what other people are writing or saying… sorry, can’t do that.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
You are in the middle of a vicious cycle.
You react to other people articles with your own rants and we as fans get drawn into the discussion again and by doing this those writer and maybe more see that it is ok to keep at it.
Some where this has to be let go, Peyton asked us as fans to let go i think we are the ones that need to let go on this. BBS dont say that you want to move on or that you believe in Peyton cuz you are not doing what he asked us to.
stop it BBS just stop it
Look at every post here…8 of 10 post are asking you to stop and disagree with what you are saying. Yes people are talking about it…they are staying “Shut up!”
Fight the battles you can win. You can’t undo the Jets game. So let’s get pumped for our first playoff game en route to the Super Bowl!
It’s Manning! It’s Sanchez/Palmer/Flacco! It’s the NFL Divisional Playoffs on CBS!
We rise. They fall.
Proud to have my own tag on KSK
http://monkeybiziu.deviantart.com
this is a copy of my comment in the other thread ...please
This site was moving on ,and here we go again.
If this discussion is about timing and how management mishandled the explanation of a decision , then WHY WE CANT WAIT UNTIL THE PLAYOFFS ARE OVER?
to discuss this shit, we need to move on that what Peyton asked the players and fans to do.
There is no doubt that this site is read by Main stream media writers to gauge the fan opinion ,writing and discussing about this dead horse will make them write more and more articles about it ,we and this blog is re-fueling the fire on those Colts haters writers and on writers that just care about who many people read them, BBS why don’t you do what Peyton asked the fans to do? You could have reported about the meeting without ranting one more time.
Please Colts fans lets do what Peyton asked us to do and don’t keep on beating this dead horse and don’t reply to this post in negative ways and do not continue to bash Polian and our management ,wait until the playoffs are over please , this kind of thread and post just give other writers a greeen light to keep writing stuff that just hurts our team, think about it.
by thebossuzzi on Jan 4, 2010 8:30 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
The Pats game wasn't meaningless
but the Jets game WAS meaningless. What it proves is that every snap your starters are on the field has the potential to wreck your season, and it’s not smart to have them out there when you’ve got nothing to gain. I’m not here to defend Polian categorically, keeping starters out so they can get to 100 catches (although that has pretty substantial monetary implications too) is just as dumb as playing your starters to go 15-0. As Johnny O said, it all boils down to whether you think 16-0 is worth anything, and when the chips are down, I just don’t.
That is what this is all about to be honest the undefeated season.
BBS,MSM and some fans can try to to put any other reason to this they want but the truth is everyone was wanting a perfect season.
The pulling of the starters in the Jets game was totally unexpected by the players and fans alike.The media and fans (myself included) both made such a great cry about it that now even with what we seen in the last reg. season game it still is being debated.
My question now is would this even of been a issue if the Colts were 12-2 at the time, if memory serves me right that wasn’t much said when Dungy pulled the starters the only difference being the Colts won the game anyway.
Two disagreements
1. Everyone wanted to be undefeated? I was happy IF it happened but playing full-out for it was not anywhere on my agenda.
2. Totally unexpected? Are you SHITTING me?
2. Totally unexpected? Are you SHITTING me?
In the game against the Jets, yes I believe the pulling of the starters wasn’t expected.
I didn't watch the game
but when I checked the score afterwards I was not surprised in the slightest. Disappointed, a little. But not surprised.
Anyone who was surprised was listening more to their own fantasies than the coaches.
They have said all season
that 16-0 was not a priority. How fans can be surprised when they prove that is beyond me. Especially fans who have followed the team for multiple seasons and see them pull starters almost every year.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi
sitting in the stands at the game
the running pre-game joke was a toast “here’s to not seeing Curtis Painter touch the field.”
It was not unexpected. 99.99999% of fans knew it was a real possibility.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
a dumpster fire of a blog....
Welker’s injury DOES put in perspective what Coach Caldwell & Polian did. Had they played the Jets game out then they would have HAD to play the starters in the horrible weather in dangerous conditions. The move was unpopular but in hindsight it was the right one to make.
The Jets game was meaningless and the Bills game was not just meaningless but played in absolute horrible weather. Reduce the risk of losing players to injuries. Hell you said it yourself "This is football. Injuries happen….
This is incorrect thinking
There is no correlation between the ‘meaningfullness’ of a game or the week in which the game is played and injuries.
Bob Sanders and Tyjuan Hagler were injuried in a game in which the Colts won, but didn’t affect their seeding. Pierre Garcon hurt his hand against the Jaguars in which the Colts decided to play full out, but had no meaning. The Rams continued to played a Steven Jackson with a bad back, when their entire season is ‘meaningless’ by Stampede Blue Readership standards.
This isn’t MLB or NBA, there are 16 games. I don’t feel that any of them are meaningless, but the past 2 weeks are the only two weeks I’ve voluntarily not watched an entire Colts’ game. So, I guess if I were going to say it, it would be the Colts made the game meaningless, not the schedule or the record.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
New "resting players" rule.
Considering the extraordinary expense of season tickets and single game tickets, it might be reasonable to consider games such as the Colts-Jets and Bills-Colts as forfeits. The ticket holders should be sent a full or partial refund for their tickets for those games, the visiting team should have their share of the fees reduced, parking should be free or reduced and this way the integrity of the game would remain intact. If resting key players is required, then perhaps meaningless games should simply be forfeited.
If the Colts come out flat against their playoff opponent in the first round, then we’ll know that this idea was a failure. On the other hand, Mathis has been hurt, Freeney has been playing hurt, and these two guys are about as important as Manning. The loss of Bob Sanders makes their 14-0 run that much more amazing as he has always been one of the keys to the defense. As wonderful as Peyton and the rest of the offense is, and they are an amazing unit when they play with precision, it has been the defense that has given them the chance to win all year.
Roger Goddell is mad...
And he’s not the only one. But do we really want the NFL telling teams when to play which players? Should the NFL really be able to tell teams when they can and can’t sit starters? Where would that end? How far would they take it? How would they manage that? Would the starters have to play a certain number of snaps? What about guys like Freeney who can play with the injury but on a limited basis? If they dictate when certain players play where would they stop? I think this is a slippery slop best not travelled. I can see this getting out of control really fast.
goodell isn't mad about pulling out starters
if he was a GM or a coach he probably would do it too, but the media’s coverage irritates him a lot.
Quitters never win, but cheaters sometimes do
He's mad enough...
that there is a committee being formed to look at the issue. Maybe it’s all for show but maybe not. My point is the same, do we really want the NFL to dictate this kind of thing?
Look,
your a lady so I’ll take it easy on you. There was a “committee” formed in 2007 to look at this exact same issue, and not shit was done about it. Teams have earned the right to do whatever the hell they want when they have the seed locked up, and even a playoff spot period. The people bitching about this are your Steelers, Texans, Broncos fans etc…who didn’t do enough to make it on their own and had to rely on how another team performed in order to make it. Bull shit. You take care of your own business. The Colts will take care of the Colts, not the Colts and the rest of the AFC. The other teams made their beds now they must sleep in them.
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
*cough*
It is a dick thing to say “Look, your a lady so I’ll take it easy on you.”
Condescending AND misogynistic.
I like you, please don’t be like that.
Go Colts!
by Marked Hoosier on Jan 4, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Really, it sounds worse than what I meant by it
if you read the way I have responded to other people then you would see what I meant.
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
i know you didn't mean anything...
it just started out your response totally wrong. If only i had a nickle for every time I said something stupid…
I would be the NICKLE KING!
Go Colts!
by Marked Hoosier on Jan 4, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Most of my other responses started out with
“Hey Douchebag” and a series of curse words followed by improper grammar and other things lol
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
Women can be douchebags, too!
I’m offended that you don’t count me in that category! Oh wait. nvm
How can you not love a team that does this?
Read,
your (sic) not a lady. There was no committee formed in 2007. Its the competition committee, which has been around for more than 3 years.
And no, the bitching is not just contained to Steelers, Texans and Broncos fans. Colts fans (aside from the great Gandhi readership here) are pissed off, as well. Just go ask Kravitz and Phil B. about their in boxes. Go read some letters to the editor. If all of you are so convinced that its time to move on, and only BBS is carrying the torch, then don’t be afraid to do a little research.
Actually, be afraid, because you’re wrong.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Am I the only one
Thinking a lot of teams made a statement on this issue by resting their starters?
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi
by gizzardfanny on Jan 4, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
do we?
well, NFL.com says that goodell is considering giving incentives to teams which has already taken a place at the playoffs and decides to don’t pull out its starters, like giving draft picks. but for me, it’s just smooth talking to avoid their real intentions: fees
Quitters never win, but cheaters sometimes do
All they have to do is just not compete if 4 kneel downs and then the D-Line plays 5 yards off the ball. Fair Catch the Kick offs so nobody gets hurt on KOs. Look Commissioner All our starters played the 1st Half but we were getting beat 175-0 so we just sent in our Practice Sqad for the 2nd half.
by sandtiger812 on Jan 5, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
As long as
they also withdraw Titans draft picks for drafting and playing Vince Young. Talk about ruining the game.
;-)
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi
vindication
I find it funny that you are using objectivity to vindicate your argument though. I mean, how do you un-vindicate Polian’s argument based upon “what-ifs” only to vindicate your argument holding the same theory.
Listen, I used to love this website, and I’ll still come here, but for some reason the page has taken an increasingly arrogant and snotty turn. It has an appearance (note my words of appearance and opinion) that "thou shalt not disagree with bbs or stampede blue) It is starting to pass a sniff test for a facist regime. JK, but you get my drift.
Let’s move on, be Colts fans, enjoy this GAME and enjoy our team. Let’s stop bashing management, who we’ve never bashed before, stop pointing out opinions for players based upon our opinions and be fans. We have no control anyways. You can say, “we can all sell our tickets, and not go to the games!” Well, here is one Colt fan willing to take your tickets and bring some friends.
wholeheartedly agree
"If you don't [draft me], I promise you I'll come back and kick your ass for the next 15 years."
I implore you to stick to the comments
we have more diverse opinions and discussions there.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
BBS if Vic Carucci (a Colts hater) can write an article like this one:
The reminders were these: When you put any player on the field in any game, you risk losing him to an injury. When the player is a starter and an essential part of your success, and the outcome of the game has little or no impact on your team’s playoff positioning, you take that risk unnecessarily.
How bad do the Indianapolis Colts look now for yanking Peyton Manning and other starters three quarters into last week’s game — which had no bearing on their playoff status — against the New York Jets?
How bad do they look for having Manning only play a little more than a quarter of Sunday’s game against the Buffalo Bills?
For the perfection obsessed, the grumbling no doubt will continue. Without Manning, the Colts’ chances for an unbeaten season evaporated the moment Curtis Painter met the Jets defense. The 30-7 loss to the lowly Bills, played in bitter cold and a steady snowfall, was yet another messy Painter job for the sake of preserving the health of the quarterback who really matters.
full article: http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d815788d3&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
why you keep on bringing the negative articles and keep on bashing our organization,? all that it does is hurt this team.
by thebossuzzi on Jan 4, 2010 8:52 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
and..
Our Colts tends to play better with their key starters healthy is something the Colts are banking on as their ticket to a second Super Bowl crown since 2006. It’s also something the Patriots can only wish they could do.
+1
"The critics can criticize but we're the crème dele crème,
Me and P-Dela we blend what they're calling the standard,
Still standing while they're screaming when will it end?"
- Standing Still, Hilltop Hoods
by AussieColtsFan on Jan 4, 2010 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with you thebossuzzi.
And I agree with Carucci. Sorry BBS, but this is one time I think you’re way off base.
"You can't defend the perfect throw, what can I say?" Peyton quoting Marino
"As I grow older, the list of people who can kiss my ass grows longer"-Ancient Hoosier Proverb.
this was also the second coldest game in colts history (probably the worst weather too)
GO COLTS!!! 09 IS OURS!!!
by TheAngelsColts on Jan 4, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Better Perspective
This doesn’t vindicate what Polian and Caldwell did, which was cowardly, but it does throw their logic and thinking into stark relief. Their thoughts regarding injury, and why they pulled the starters against the Jets, now has a clear example to cite.
This sounds strange, but Welker (AND A. Boldin, AND Rodgers-Cromartie AND Charles Woodson) getting hurt makes me feel much better towards Colts management this week.
Wow, this blog is going downhill
For someone who should listen to their man crush Mr Manning and get over it, this blog sure hasn’t. I love the links, but I think ill start avoiding the commentary on here. it “seemingly” has started sucking, and become nothing but a “Im mad we didn’t go for 19-0” blog,and not a fairly biased Colts news source, like I had once enjoyed. How about we move on? And yes, I do think that this makes me MUCH less angry about the Jets game, seeing as how Wes Welker is their Clark, so it “seemingly” has proven Bill Polians point. Yes people are going to get hurt, but sometimes you play the percentages, did we all forget that word after 4th and 2 gate?
it's always been a personal opinion blog
it’s not obligated to be imparcial like the media veicules should be. well, even the media is parcial most of the time, so BBS is just doing his job defending his point of view. but i totally agree: BBS, take a time to rest and get back to write about the Colts when its playoff game get defined
Quitters never win, but cheaters sometimes do
I love BBS's news commentaries...
but I agree, let’s move on… talking about the very favorable matchups we face in the playoffs.
God hates the New England Patriots
Why is the hate directed
at Bill Polian and not Jim Caldwell?
God hates the New England Patriots
cause Polian called it
not Caldwell. maybe if it was only Caldwell’s decision, he’d let the starters keep playing
Quitters never win, but cheaters sometimes do
How do you know these things?
I smell Polian Derangement Syndrome
God hates the New England Patriots
Lets not forget
All the media sources also said the real boss, Jim Irsay signed off on it. So all the upper management did. But, alas, I would rather just concentrate on the playoffs and not crap that doesn’t matter now. Its like every few days there is a post on here trying to validate the “WE SHOULD BE ANGRY!” stuff, and thats fine, but its all an opinion we have already heard. Get over it. Playoff time.
Irony...
BBS article -Why Wes Welker’s injury does not vindicate Bill Polian .
Vic Carucci (Colts hater) article – Welker’s injury offers validation for Colts’ late-season moves
Can we switch?
People always make this notion that the fans wouldnt have been as upset if the colts rested this week
wrong. The fans would be just as upset if not more upset. why? because if you are 15-0, you best go for 16-0… at least that is what i perceive the perception will be. The colts, with hypothetically, one game away from a perfect season and you guys dont think there would be as much rage over it? That BS. Obviously, I wouldnt want to be one of them, and im sure a lot of you wouldnt be part of the mob, but when I hear caller say things like “we had perfection and we just ran away from it” it means that they wouldnt care what the conditions were. The mass majority of fans wanted 16-0 regardless of weather and increased risk of injury, It didnt matter what Polian did, he still would have been scoffed at.
oh about "fluke injuries happen"
isnt that exactly Polians point BBS? the less the starters play, the less chance of that happening! If Wes Welker was Reggie Wayne two weeks ago, do you realize how much damage that would cause to our Superbowl aspirations?
I know I sound like a broken record here, but WE HAVE SEEN THIS STORY BEFORE! When the Colts enter the playoffs with a banged up, injured team, what is the end result? A loss and an early trip back home. Im sure you of all people dont want that right?
Give it a rest BBS, perfection was never going to happen. Even if the Colts were 15-0, they still would have “thrown the game away”. To me 15-1 is no different from 14-2. only 19-0 is significant and it wasnt going to happen in that snow storm.
Why did Sorgi
get no significant play time vs the Cardinals or the Rams this year(blow outs)? Or the Jaguars (meaningless game/Painter)?
Finally (I’m becoming more of a broken record than BBS), there is no correlation between week 17/meaningless game, and injury. Wes Welker got injured in the first series of the game. If Reggie Wayne tore his knee up on the first series of the game yesterday, are you saying, ‘Its okay, they had to get him a quarter on the ice rink?’ Further, if they played only 1 play, and sat, and Welker tears his knee on the shithole that is Reliant Stadium Turf, are you then saying, ‘They should have left Welker at home?" This is no different than me saying, ’well, they rested at the end, so obviously they will win the super bowl now!’ or someone else saying, ‘well, they played it through, obviously they’ll win it all!’ There is no correlation between the two. Wes Welker got injured because he’s a football player playing the game of football on the football field. While it sucks and happened at a bad time, he, and every other player in the NFL takes that risk every time they step on to the field. I guarantee you that if you asked every player in the NFL before week 17 ‘would you rather be on the field or on the bench resting for the next game’, 100% of them would want to play. Thats what they do.
Also – Pat McAfee has been vital to the special teams success of this team, but by punting and by his amazing kick offs – he was out there the entire time yesterday, with an increased risk of injury. Would you like to see our special teams with him injured for the playoffs? I would think that without his touchbacks, our chances of winning in the playoffs go down significantly. But, no one is crying for him, Argentina.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
pissing contest continued
I’ve been away for a couple days, come back to the same old shit. If you are one the people that cannot be happy with 14-2 and several records the Colts set and hold, ALONE. I feel bad for you because you have been spoiled by this teams success. TRY to enjoy the playoffs because this could be my last visit for a while. As fans not only can we not buy tickets,we don’t have to visit popular blogs either.
IN POLIAN I TRUST
by colt44 on Jan 4, 2010 10:19 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Thanks a lot BBS: now we have the commish up our ass
Thanks for doing your part to keep this lame story on everybody’s mind. Polian’s strategy hasn’t changed one iota since the 2000 season. Why the total freak-out now? The players want to move on. Most fans want to move on. But you seem stuck on the man’s perceived arrogance and disrespect of the fans. He might well be an arrogant shit head, just as I’m sure you would find many NFL players are mal-adjusted violent men who are self-centered and hyper-competitive. But you have to stop imagining the insults that aren’t there. It says more about you and your baggage than it does about Polian. As fans we can be over-emotional about these things. That’s a luxury the mangers, coaches, and players can’t afford with so much on the line. Was it a bad call? I personally think so. I’m already over it.
Another thing: Let’s take a moment and shit-can the notion that “History” is something that can be “offended” or “snubbed” like it’s up for an oscar or hosting a party that Polian was attending against his will. History gets written after the fact not in blogs and columns before the games are decided on the field.
As far as Goodell looking into individual questions of game managment: be careful what you wish for…
Love your blog. Really. But you need to get some perspective.
We probably should have lost the Miami, NE, Houston, possibly both Jax games, Baltimore, and maybe a couple of others. In retrospect, to avoid all of this hoopla, I wish we would’ve lost one of those. We didn’t, and we are the best team in the league right now. Forget the numbers, they are just numbers. We are the best team, let’s strap it up/on and go win us a SB. I’d much rather have a SB than any of the other stuff. If for no other reason than to spend $200.00 more on awesome SB memorabilia. Plus, I live close enough to Miami to attend.
here's a philosophy question
what is perpetuating the ‘flogging of the dead horse’?
Is it BBS’ articles, or the 100s of comments telling him to stop?
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Um... well... i ain't no good in phil-os-ophy... so here is a picture (my favorite books are FULL of them!)
Go Colts!
by Marked Hoosier on Jan 4, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
u forgot to say..OKKKKKKK
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
AHAHAHAHAHA!
Lets take an argument from a man at the extremely relevant Winnipeg Free Press, “Your daily news from around Manitoba.” Lets not look at an opinion from a relevant news source like the Star Times or ESPN or USA Today or NYT, no the Winnipeg Free Press is much easier to combat.
Great strategy of lets find a paid writer who made a few statements about why he thinks the Colts did it right in passing and then I’ll use my dizzying intellect to prove that I’m better than the mainstream media. You should check L ’Equipe, that French newspaper really knows its football too.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
I'm sure you can find someone to argue with
in the Mt. Vernon Democrat as well. Perhaps the Princeton Clarion. The Hamilton County Star?
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
Haha! Mt. Vernon Democrat...
“Available at Frankie J’s in Owensville and Huck’s convenience stores…”
by peytonsurdaddy on Jan 4, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
man I live 5 miles from Owensville
I have no idea what or where Frankie J’s is
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
They always say it...
On the commercials for the MVD on 106.7 WYFX the local ESPN radio affiliate.
by peytonsurdaddy on Jan 4, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
yeah I know
I’m just saying distributing from a store in Owensville is like leaving a stack of papers to distribute to people that pass through my living room.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
Hey!
Theirs a “Frankie J’s” in Wadesville too! Thats about 3 miles from me! Good ol PoCo!!
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
that makes more sense being Posey County and all
no one in Owensville cares about Mt. Vernon
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
No one where I'm from
cares anything about Mt Vernon either. Just the hot women and kicking their football teams ass lol.
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
I meant Wadesville...
I always get those 2 mixed up.
by peytonsurdaddy on Jan 4, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Its easy
they are two small ass towns with like a population of 300
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
I wouldn't be so sure he would find support in that French paper
The Danish football coverage is now defending the Colts.
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi
by gizzardfanny on Jan 4, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
well the Danes have always had a soft spot for Indiana
so many Germanic cultures have settled here and all. I would guess they would show more favoritism to the Steelers of Western Pennsylvania.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
They really like the Patsies :(
"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi
by gizzardfanny on Jan 4, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Like Peyton said, time to look at just the playoffs
Well, Peyton said it best, it is time for the playoffs and time for focusing just on it. In fact, I greatly appreciate Peyton for doing what he did, though it was not necessary. I do feel it will give us fans disappointed about the lack of pursuit of a perfect season (that includes me) a good direction for the right focus right now. I do like the matchups on paper that the Colts have and hope they silence all “Chargers have our number” talk when we clinch our berth in the SB.
Unless the NFL plans to introduce a few measure to make games more meaningful at the end, teams that have clinched will continue to rest the starters. The only difference was the management that has done this the last few years ALL the time did not factor in the undefeated season factor that caused all this backlash. But like Peyton said, it is time to move on. Maybe if this franchise had multiple Super Bowls, they may have had lesser pressure on them to win more Super Bowls. Maybe management was feeling the pressure of having only 1 SB to show for all the regular season success this decade and decided to put all their eggs in the SB basket, maybe.
As far as making the last few games meaningful to most teams, there can be 2 possibilities, IMO, one drastic one and one feasible one:
1. Make the last 2 games in the NFL regular season for every team division games, this was proposed by a user on Mike & Mike in the morning show. This increases the likelihood of a division not being clinched by then and at least 1 if not both those games could become more meaningful. Based on history though, the Colts clinch their division by virtue of overall record more times than play within the division.
2. Merge both conferences and make homefield advantage an NFL thing and not a conference thing. For example, you have 12 teams in the playoffs, 8 division winners will now be guaranteed only a playoff spot but not the home game. Out of those 8 division winners, home field will be decided purely based on record across the conference, including 4 wild card teams across the NFL. If the AFC is stronger in a decade (this decade) or the NFC is stronger in a decade (probably the 80s and 90s possibly), you could have two of the best teams in the NFL meet up each other. Imagine a Colts vs Pats SB or Colts vs Chargers SB. Going based on that, in 2005, the Colts vs Seahawks game (13-1 vs 12-2 records) would be more meaningful for home field advantage. This year, the 14-0 Colts would not clinch home field till they got to 15-0 since the Saints were 13-1 at the same time the Colts played the 15th game.
I do think option 1 might be a more practical one than option two but option two would erase more meaningless games than option one, IMO.
Best reason Welker's injury doesn't vindicate Polian
One has nothing to do with the other. If the Pats match the Colts’ philosophy this week (and last week) to the letter, Welker still gets injured.
Pats fan here (not trolling, honest), but IIRC, the Colts don’t traditionally bench all their starters for the whole game, and I don’t recall an NFL team doing so for a long time. (Even the Saints played Colston, for example).
The Welker injury was ridiculously bad luck, but it happens. Good luck to you guys in the playoffs.
by Female Patriots Enthusiast on Jan 4, 2010 11:46 AM EST reply actions
the idea though isn't that it wouldn't have happened
the issue is playing the percentages. I can’t imagine completely sitting starters, but by playing only a few drives you’re minimizing their exposure to injuries. Welker had a freak injury but it shows that injuries could happen any time. By getting guys off the field you’re trying to play the percentages. I figured after the Welker injury the Pats would have gotten a little gun shy and pulled their guys. I would have.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
I just don't think you can avoid all risk
which is why the Welker injury doesn’t seem like a good example. Is it even possible, as a practical matter, to bench all starters for the whole game? I really can’t conceive of a scenario in which your #2 WR would be benched on the first drive.
I was surprised to see Brady back out there, but I figured they did it to give the team a chance to “test out” the Welker-less offensive philosophy.
(And hi, Marima!)
by Female Patriots Enthusiast on Jan 4, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
also
And to clarify, I completely see your point, I just think the Welker injury has virtually nothing to do with Polian’s philosophy, other than to show that “stuff happens.” It’s such a bizarre injury that you can’t even calculate for it in a risk calculation. (As said above, it could have happened in practice, running drills, etc.)
(Oddly enough, I was kind of defending the Colts last week, to a point. I thought the mistake was trying to take too much of a middle road, and putting Painter in a no-win situation, rather than pulling Peyton et al at the half or even benching them the whole game. I thought it didn’t minimize risk that well, and also didn’t have a lot of upside.)
by Female Patriots Enthusiast on Jan 4, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
I think thats exactly what it is
“stuff happens” so if you can avoid it as much as possible, while still achieving certain goals (mainly personal records for monetary reasons.) then do it. The reason for pulling those guys when they did, reaching personal accomplishments and not before, IMO is more to keep the players union off of the Colts back. Many contracts are incentive laden with bonuses paid out for stats and reps. This keeps the camp of, “well you pulled players so you didn’t have to pay players” away. The players union is a much more formidable opponent than Derrick from Muncie.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
I was just going to post something like this
(and nice to see another female Patriots fan on SB Nation BTW)
Welker’s injury occurred on the first offensive series of the game for the Patriots. Even if the plan was to pull the starters, they would have played at least the first quarter, and probably up through the first half considering the Patriots didn’t have a Bye week.
Belichick can’t be faulted for being either careless or reckless with his players’ health here, and since it occurred so early in the game, it doesn’t fall into the resting players argument at all.
Keep the faith!
freak injury
but highlights the what-ifs of leaving guys out there in a game you gain little from.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
I was just stating in general
basically referring back to the Jets game AND playing guys in the second half.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
okay...
then why leave the Colts players in till the 2nd half of the Jets game?
Why play the whole Jaguars game?
Why send players out on the ice rink yesterday? We already saw Ochostinko hurt his leg (he says he cant extend his knee, now, good luck in the playoffs, Bengals) because of similar field conditions.
As the fem pats fan said, the issue was trying to have cake and eat it, too. Just pull the starters are some set interval (not 5mins 13seconds left in 3rd quarter) and stop trying to win while quitting.
And have better communication with your players and fans.
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Agreed that Welker's injury does nothing to validate the decision made against the Jets.
As you said, injuries happen. Welker’s injury has nothing to do with this situation. I don’t even know why it was brought up.
Colts have always rested in this way. Play a little and then rest the rest of the game. This year, I think Caldwell put a greater emphasis on playing so we’re not completley out of rhythm. That’s fine, it’s a little change. The greater philosophy hasn’t changed. Polian might say stuff about not risking injuries, but I think it’s more about getting healthier. It’s not the same thing. I heard (as I wasn’t around) that Caldwell had told both Reggie and Dallas that it might not be possible to get the milestones as they only planned on playing them one full series. The interception ended the first one, so they wanted to get one successful drive and Dallas and Reggie got their records. Their records are important. They might not be as important as a chance for 19-0 to the fans, but they’re still important and if they’re attainable, why not?
I still disagree with the way and the timing of the decision that was made last week, but I don’t think one bad decision outweighs the hundreds of good decision our management and coach have made over the season. Getting personal records has always been important to us, but they only aim for the attainable personal records.
The only way the Colts will try for perfection is if there is another team in the same conference doing the same thing. If the commissioner wants us to play the last few weeks (and we’re still undefeated), he should schedule teams like NE and SD at the end of the season.
Off-topic.
I’ve often wondered in your profile pic are you the model, the photographer, both, neither? Of course it’s your prerogative to not answer. Just curious…
-Curiosity Killed My Cat And I Think I’m Next
by peytonsurdaddy on Jan 4, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
excellent photo
you should submit that to any and all photo contests you can find and see what happens…
How can you not love a team that does this?
I guess my thing is
regarding personal milestones… It took you basically 15 minutes of game time to get Clark and Wayne their 100 catches. Coincidentally, you had 20 minutes (and the ball) of game time vs. the Jets. In a dome. Without snow or ice. Why not get milestones (and the win, most likely) in that span, in front of your home crowd, in a more controlled environ?
The 15-0 would still be meaningless, because the Colts have already stated (after being 14-1) that from Punter to Quarterback to Cornerback to General Manager, that 16-0 is meaningless, so obviously everyone would know that 15-1 was coming after the starters played a series in buffalo.
Too many comments coming from both sides of the mouth from the Colts organization on this issue.
(Unless, of course, Darth Polian honest forsaw the situation playing out as it has, and really wanted the Jets in the playoffs)
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
I'm not saying they're consistent or correct, but they
don’t really seem to focus on the milestones bit until the last game. And they always play a little in the final game. They do seem to agree that no playing time in the last game would be bad. And as I said in my previous post, I really do thing it’s more of an issue of “gaining health” than “avoiding injuries.” Or that is how I’ve been justifying some of the inconsistencies.
I just watched some of the Bills game and what I do like is that our offense has looked pretty sharp every time they’ve played in the last few games unlike some of the “resting” games in the previous years.
Either way, onwards to the playoffs.
Totally disagree.
While I understand that fans want to see the team they paid good money for out on the field, I think those same fans would change their tune if Reggie or Freeny tore their ACL like Welker. NE just lost their most consistent playmaker. A guy who gets first downs on more than half of his catches. The fact that it was a freak accident just goes to show you that it doesn’t even take being hit to cause a devastating injury.
How do you think Pats fans are feeling today headed into the playoffs without the guy who makes their offense tick? I agree that our situation could have been handled better, but count me among the crowd who doesn’t give a flying f**k about the regular season. I want to see Peyton, Reggie, Dallas, Freeny and Mathis all 100% and ready to pound the crap out of whoever is unfortunate to draw the Colts.
16-0 would have been nice. 15-1 would have been nice. 14-2 is nothing to sneeze at. And we’ve got everybody as close to healthy as possible. Sorry if you paid a crapload of money to see Curtis Painter do his Rex Grossman impression, but I’m sure it will be worth it if Peyton gets to hoist another Lombardy trophy instead of watching from the hospital bed like Welker.
Welker tore his ACL/MCL
on the first series of the game.
Wayne and Clark played, I think, 3 series.
Are you now changing your tune? The Colts shouldnt’ have played at all yesterday, correct?
Never doubt Peyton Manning, he’ll make you look silly
Joseph Addai is a good running back.
Im a douchebag, an asshole, and I'm rarely right.
Quite right, Welker's injury doesn't validate Polian...
…However, injuries to Jamaal Jackson, Steve Smith, Rey Maualuga, Ben Roethlisberger, Hines Ward, Chad Ochocinco, Chad Henne, Pat White, Ricky Williams AND Wes Welker in the last couple weeks do validate Polian. It’s about playing percentages, which is something BBS knows and brought up in last week’s radio show. What’s consistent about the past two weeks is that Caldwell has let Manning play until he had a good series or two. Don’t act so surprised that they wanted to get Clark and Wayne their catches. Those guys are vets who can make a catch, get some yards, and get down. It’s an entirely different matter with a team playing rookies at some very key positions.
Call me a bum, simplistic, say that I don’t know what I’m talking about, but I still want to register my opinion that sitting starters was the right football move, even if its execution in regard to public relations has been terribly flawed.
by Louisville Soul Train on Jan 4, 2010 4:28 PM EST reply actions
Static Shock was an awesome show.
/knows that’s unrelated but doesn’t care
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: The Colts lost. The world moved on (I think).
Ok one more comment from me on this
Caldwell was interviewed on Sirius NFL Radio this morning, and when asked about how he reacted/felt when hearing about Welker’s injury and the whole playing / not playing argument, his response? Ready for this? “Nothing.”
I never thought that Belichick could be out-Belichick’d, but Caldwell managed to do it with just one word.
To be fair, he finally followed up with the new stock line: “Every team needs to do what they think is in the best interest of their team.” And then he FINALLY gave Welker some credit (which I personally think is the honorable thing to do) saying something about his being a dynamic player and that his loss will have an impact on the team, but wow.
How can you not love a team that does this?
This Validates Polian Completely
Yes this could happen at any time in a game. That’s exactly why Polian pulled the starters. Having this happen earlier in the year, like with Anthony Gonzalez, is not as much as issue as there is time for a recovery or changed gameplan prior to the playoffs. With nothing left to play for, the last thing the Colts need is an injury especially on a fluke. By pulling the starters, Polian’s decision was valid. The point is, with nothing left to play for, we know the Colts’ goal has always been the Super Bowl, not perfection, Bill Polian made the right call and what happened to Wes Welker proves this completely
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