Pierre Garcon Putting Together Worst Colt WR Season Since 1999?
Nate Dunlevy at 18to88 seems to think so. Interesting article, though I'm never sure what to make of catch rates considering it takes two to complete a pass. Would seem to support BBS and Bob Kravitz's claims though.
over 1 year ago
Collin McCollough
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Haven't Read It Yet
But that’s what I’ve seen. The guy simply is not getting open, and when he does get a rare foot of separation, it’s an adventure as to whether he will catch the ball or not.. This offense simply does not work with his level of talent in Marvin’s spot.
by Cole Farrington on Nov 16, 2010 3:15 PM EST reply actions
Speaking of Marvin...
Can we follow up with him and see if he is in shape to play this week? I’d love to see this again…
"I’m very fast. I’m like Forest Gump except... I am not an idiot." - Michael Scott
Collie
is more useful as a slot WR.No option but to start Pierre.
Mistaken notion
Collie performed at a very high level on the outside in week 15 Jets game last year and the week 3 Broncos game this year when Garcon could not go. It is a myth that Collie is just a slot WR and if you have seen our roster, we have another slot wideout waiting in the wings with Blair White, so moving Collie to the outside for at least 2 WR formations would make this offense stall less and be more efficient.
Agreed
Why not have Collie play outside in 2WR sets and slide into the slot for 3WR sets?
Anyone who has a problem with Joseph should stop watching Colts football. It's unfair to expect a back to replace Edge, and Addai has been excellent in all areas when he is healthy.
by DontHateAddai on Nov 16, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
I strongly believe our O will be helped that way
I firmly believe that it can only help our O to do that.
I’m not saying he cannot play outside, just not as useful in my opinion. Peyton likes to work inside and without Dallas we need an experienced slot WR against NE.
How many times are the Colts playing 2WR set (exept when the don’t have more WR)? Rarely. When they do, mostly it’s the Christensen Trick Play (= run inside). If Collie plays as a slot in 3WR sets, it wouldn’t help a lot.
But your right chad. Garcon is awful, this team needs to grab every chance to improve so it’s worth the shot.
Two reasons to suggest that
One, when DC is no longer there to take a double team in the slot, in 2 WR formations with 2 TEs one of which is most likely Tamme (3 wideouts effectively), the double teams come hard on the outside WRs. Hence the ability to separate is magnified more than pure go route speed. That is where Collie can shine better than Garcon, IMO.
When 3 WR formations are used and 1 TE is used (4 wideouts effectively), Garcon benefits with both Tamme and Collie in the slot and thus can make plays, IMO.
Garcon is by no means awful, but he is bad right now. He needs to get his head straight and earn Peyton’s trust. I think this kind of heat is what he needs before going into big games like the Pats and Chargers games. I would take a 60% catch rate in the next 2 games from Garcon, which would still be a huge step for him.
Garçon is almistvyhr last man standing
You gotta think if We had better options, garçon would not have started against cincy.
"We ARE going to our own private island, Chris: it's called the State Fucking Fair!"
by naptown_ninja on Nov 16, 2010 3:36 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I'd say yep - he sure is putting together a shitty season.
I hope PeytonIsGOAT is right and we see Collie lined up on the right on Sunday.
He who makes a beast of himself relieves the pain of being a man
Potential
One thing you can say about the guy is that he has been gifted with talent. At times he has looked like our solid right side WR. Yes, since he has come back from injury, things haven’t gone well for him. However, things haven’t gone well for other WR’s either. They’ve all had drops, Dallas isn’t there to draw another double coverage, and Peyton needs just another second to get the ball right where he wants it.
Let’s not be fans like they’re fans in Philly. Give the guy an honest shot and root for him…if you are a fan of the Colts.
The same sort of conversation was happening about Big G when he was cut and I imposed that we should watch our words because with how things are in the NFL, he’ll probably be back. A few weeks later, he’s was our #2.
This is a game, not politics. We don’t have to hate somebody after they don’t play well.
Lucas Berridge
by Firebird on Nov 16, 2010 4:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Article is garbage
I read it, and the only real measuring stick is passes caught versus passes targeted.
How many of Manning’s throws have been off target? I don’t mean ones that hit Garcon in the hands but ones that were in the turf or to high to have a shot at.
What about the ones where he was either overthrown or underthrown?
Yes, he’s dropped passes. Yes, he’s even run a wrong route or two…. the point however is that the so-called stats are misleading…
You're kidding, right?
“How many of Manning’s throws have been off target? I don’t mean ones that hit Garcon in the hands but ones that were in the turf or to high to have a shot at.”
You honestly can watch Garcon play and believe it’s more a case of Manning being off target than Garcon not getting open and dropping balls?
by Cole Farrington on Nov 16, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
THE POINT!
My point is that the stats are misleading… it does not account for passes that were not going to be caught.
If you would get down off your blame game horse and open your eyes, perhaps you’d see what I’m getting at.
Garcon is not the best WR. He needs work. However, to simply go based off the passes caught vs. passes targeted is both asinine and stupid.
by DevilsReject on Nov 16, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
did you see the update to the story
4-14 on 3rd downs from ONLY 2-7 yards out. what is misleading about that stat.
Dude
the guy has one of the worst catch rates in the league, and you reaction is to blame Manning?
Anyone who has a problem with Joseph should stop watching Colts football. It's unfair to expect a back to replace Edge, and Addai has been excellent in all areas when he is healthy.
by DontHateAddai on Nov 16, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not blaming
Manning at all. As I stated above, the only real stats they are using are passes caught vs. passes targeted. It doesn’t account for any of the passes that simply would not have been caught, such as passes out of bounds, overthrown, etc..
You take out those passes, and go for the ones that actually hit him in the hands….and I’d wager the number shrinks considerably.
He’s still in need of some glue on his hands or a quick slap to the head for some of his drops, but not all of those “targeted” passes were dropped passes..
by DevilsReject on Nov 16, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
They don't have to be dropped passes
The Colts offense is predicated on Manning and the receivers reading the coverage the same, and the receiver running the correct route, well. If there are a lot of passes to Garcon that seem misplaced, (and with Manning throwing the ball) the odds are pretty fair that Garcon ran a wrong or bad route
Anyone who has a problem with Joseph should stop watching Colts football. It's unfair to expect a back to replace Edge, and Addai has been excellent in all areas when he is healthy.
by DontHateAddai on Nov 16, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Odds might be, but that's not a fact
Look at the 2nd INT against Philly. Did Blair White run the route wrong too, or why did Manning miss him by two yards?
^^^^^THIS!!!
IS what I’m getting at….
People are slamming Garcon for dropping passes….and then equating that to his stats…..but the truth is that I’d say about 1/3 of the “incomplete passes” were not going to be caught…
Yes, he’s got to get better at it….but people are using the stats like it’s gospel…
by DevilsReject on Nov 16, 2010 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
I do somewhat agree
I have seen every snap of Colts football this year with the exception of the opener (I know he had some drops in that one). Many of the balls thrown his way are either very well defended or not catchable. I think it is unfair to break out the formulas to prove that he is doing a bad job. He has been blanketed the last two games, and in the eagles game, Manning was throwing into a stiff wind. I agree Garcon is not having a great year, but I think other factors are inflating the ugly stats.
by GuruBlue on Nov 16, 2010 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That's the Problem
“Many of the balls thrown his way are either very well defended or not catchable.”
That’s precisely the problem. And it’s because Garcon is not getting open. Either one, the passes are well defended because Garcon is not getting separation, or two, Manning has to put the ball in a certain spot where it won’t be intercepted because Garcon is covered. That’s why his catch rate numbers are so much worse than every other Colt receiver. So, either Manning is only throwing poorly to Garcon, or Garcon is under-performing. I don’t even have to watch the games to know the answer to this, but having watched the games, it’s obvious he is not getting open.
by Cole Farrington on Nov 17, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Just sit Garcon down for 2 WR formations
Put Wayne and Collie in all the time for 2 WR formations, they are the two best WRs in our team and do not stall drives. Collie has played well outside in the 2 chances he got without Garcon (week 15 in Jets game last year and week 3 in Broncos game this year where he had a monstrous game). It is a myth that Collie cannot play the outside WR. Use Garcon in 3 WR formations, at least this temporary removal of snaps from him will let him re-focus and let him play well.
DeSean Jackson is blazing speed, Garcon is not and let us not pretend his long speed translates to separation in this offense, not true by any shot. Collie separates better than Garcon.
But like everyone says, he is a Colts player, and maybe he needs this adversity to overcome to become a better player. Also, if you remember, Kelvin Hayden hit a bottom with that dropped INT in the Jags game followed by a bone headed penalty in the Chiefs game. Then came the bye week, and all of a sudden, he is playing like a different man. Maybe Garcon needed to hit the bottom with his drops, being called out on radio, failing to recover the ball on the onside kick and gifting a 15 yard penalty for removing his helmet. We will see how he responds.
I doubt the penalty will affect his play
he has been getting called with penalties (it seems like it’s one penalty every single game) ever since Gonzo went down last year.
Anyone who has a problem with Joseph should stop watching Colts football. It's unfair to expect a back to replace Edge, and Addai has been excellent in all areas when he is healthy.
by DontHateAddai on Nov 16, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
we need Collie and Blair White in there Sunday
we need sure hands against the Pats and Tamme will help- work that back this week to get him ready
As much as I like Pierre, and a large part of the reason why is the attitude he had last year; not the
bravado of this year, but the “we’re not taking any of your sh*t” when opposing teams became volatile. But now it seems that media exposure has made that attitude into ego. That is a real shame, because Garcon is still a very good guy, I think. The fans going crazy for the impossible catches that are shown in slow motion over and over feeds the ego monster. Someone with authority in Colts org. should have a long talk with Pierre and instead of highlights of the WTF catches, he should be forced to watch film of every single dropped pass. And at least one week on the bench to figure out his place on the team. Because the highlight catches are not game winners, the easy, short or medium catch over and over, Garcon, those are the game winners.
Pierre
During the game on Sunday, I told my boys that Pierre will not be on the team next season. They were stunned because they remember the great catches, which I cannot deny he has had a few awesome ones, but the frustration over the little catches is growing.
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