If any of the Colts thought it was a dirty hit, none of the players with whom I spoke readily shared that sentiment. But some of them, notably Reggie Wayne, were incensed at the way the Eagles' sideline reacted after the play.
"I was looking at their sideline, hearing them complaining about the call and cheering about the hit," Wayne said. "But it is what it is. That's not something I want to start. I had plenty to say to them, but I'm going to let it be for now. It's not going to change anything. Just hope that Austin's going to be OK."
In Bob Kravitz's Monday column, WR Reggie Wayne claims Eagles players were cheering Collie's hit. Whoever could honestly cheer a hit that looked to initially paralyze a guy is due some nasty karma their way sometime soon.
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Collin McCollough
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I did notice the Eagles players reacting after the hit
A lot of the Eagles players were reacting to Austin’s hit on the jumbo screen. I feel jumping around and protesting a call while a human being is lying lifeless on the ground is bush league, but I expect nothing less than a bunch of douche bags from Philly.
Always remember this. The Eagles are the franchise that brought in Vick. Nuff said.
Oh Please!
They were cheering AGAINST the call. They would never cheer for the hit after seeing Collie laying motionless.
NEVER!
Desean Jackson experienced the same exact thing two weeks earlier so they know what it’s like when it happens to their own teammate (a very important one at that). They were not cheering for the hit. They were cheering against the flag.
And rightfully so. (Bad call).
Having said that, I was sick seeing Collie laying there on the field and I’m glad to hear he’s doing better and will be able to recover fully. I wish Collie all the best.
by Smitty2K3 on Nov 8, 2010 9:27 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
complaining against a call
And cheering are two completely different things. If they were cheering, then I’m pissed.
Peyton Manning= Better.
If they were cheering
then you should be pissed. I wouldn’t blame you.
But I find it very hard to believe that ANY NFL player would be cheering when they see another player hit the ground with his arms stiff in the air. It just doesn’t happen.
by Smitty2K3 on Nov 8, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Notice how Wayne differentiates...
Complaining about the call and cheering about the hit.
Writer for Stampede Blue.
by Collin McCollough on Nov 8, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
All NFL players cheer for big hits by their teammates… until they see a player down and out.
I guarantee you they stopped cheering when they saw Collie wasn’t moving.
If they were, in fact, still cheering when they saw Collie knocked out motionless then shame on them. But I find that hard to believe.
Is it not possible that Wayne mistakenly took the Eagles players arguing the call as cheering for the hit?
by Smitty2K3 on Nov 8, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it's possible...
Wayne, who was on the field, has a better idea than any of us, who were parked in front of the HDTV.
Writer for Stampede Blue.
by Collin McCollough on Nov 8, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
I think it's possible...
that Wayne’s judgment was a little clouded by his concern for his teammate and his anger towards a hit he probably didn’t see.
I think it's possible...
Your perspective favors Philly in a good light and my perspective defends my Colts, and this is turning into a he-said-she-said with allegiances clearly drawn in green and blue.
Writer for Stampede Blue.
by Collin McCollough on Nov 8, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Fair enough
You’re probably right.
I’m obviously defending the Eagles. You’re defending the Colts.
Having said that, I will admit that if the Eagles were in fact cheering for the hit well after the hit was made, then Wayne and anybody else has every right to be upset with the Eagles.
That would not be right.
But, again, ask yourself after clearing your head of a tough, frustrating loss… would any reasonable NFL player do that? I would have to believe the answer is no, no matter who it is.
But you're assuming that Philly players
are considered reasonable NFL players. When Asante Samuel is jumping up and down and celebrating/causing a rauckus a full minute after it’s clear that Collie was frozen on the field, he doesn’t provide much evidence of being a reasonable NFL player
I think the point is -
Good call or bad call, in most stadiums with most fans, when a player is down (really down) and not moving, it gets very very quiet. That was true for Desean when he was down. Just wasn’t the case yesterday.
Maybe the jumbotron should not be replaying the hit over and over while someone is down.
I agree with that. The jumbotron shouldn’t have been replaying the hit multiple times.
The jumbotron is what clearly portrayed the bad call and got the fans and players more fired up. And thats why you heard booing and saw players irrate.
Keep in mind the Philly fans were quiet at points (when the jumbotron wasn’t playing) and they cheered for Collie when he was leaving the field.
I would be upset too if I saw the opposing players cheering for a hit that knocked out an Eagle. But that’s not what was happening. They were arguing against the call. Plain and simple.
by Smitty2K3 on Nov 8, 2010 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Has everyone forgotten that that terrible call by Carl Cheffers wiped away a turnover?
They were COMPLAINING ABOUT THE CALL, they were not giddy that a man might be paralyzed. If anyone, including Reggie Wayne, thinks otherwise, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I didn't perform well when it mattered most.
by Justin F. on Nov 8, 2010 9:57 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
It was a good call.
42 went head hunting. Collie was wide open from the back. 42 could have wrapped him up and tried to strip the ball. He did neither. Instead he led with his head and went helmet to helmet.
by ActionOxford on Nov 8, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Take off your Colts glasses
And think objectively.
Every NFL analyst on every possible sports station said that this was a bad call by the refs and that it was a clean hit.
Keep in mind that you can’t illegally hit a runner of the football. It was pretty clear that Collie caught the ball, took two steps (plus some), lowered his head to defend himself, then took the hit and fumbled the football.
Kurt Coleman is not a head hunter
I’ve seen him play for 2 years in college and I’m never ever seen him hit anyone helmet to helmet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsIn0lih48w
Watch the vid. Coleman led with his shoulders and Collie’s helmet rebounded into Coleman’s helmet.
He probably got his concussion after his head hit the ground violently
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
You just did.
Pure helmet to helmet.
I find your internet Doctor shtick to be unconvincing. Collie dropped the ball right after being hit in the head and he made no effort to control his fall with his arms. Further, he held his arms in the same way during the fall and after. I’m not sure what you are seeing that makes you think the injury came when he hit the ground.
Oh, I see, he played at OSU and you’re standing up for your guy. Good for you, I guess. Bad as the Eagles fans. All Colts fans are homers and can’t see a perfectly clean hit, but they are all completely unbiased.
Coleman had a clean shot but went for the head.
by ActionOxford on Nov 8, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
it was by accident
All Colts fans are homers and can’t see a perfectly clean hit, but they are all completely unbiased.
contradiction much?
Look at the vid and the slow motion….KColeman hit Collie with his right shoulder FIRST.
We will see who is right moi or tu on Thursday or Friday.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
It's not a contradiction.
An Eagle fan claimed I was looking through “Colt’s glasses” thereby insinuating that he was unbiased and I was biased. I merely pointed out that contradiction. I never said I was unbiased.
The shoulder and helmet hit at the same time. If there is any delay it’s in the fractions of seconds which is inconsequential. Coleman went for the head.
How will we see who is “right?” The league only makes mistakes when you disagree? All the hits they have fined so far have been patently illegal? I bet there are some fans out there that would take issue with your premise that the league is perfect.
by ActionOxford on Nov 8, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
i dont think the league is perfect
last week they fined M. Pyror of the Patriots for a legal hit on Favre.
Pryor hit him on his chest and Favre’s chin slid down on top of MP’s helmet and was cut.
The league said it was a legal hit…their former official of officiating- Mike Peirra (sp?) said it was a legal hit and the NFL still fined him for the hit.
I go to OSU and sometimes when other teams play other teams (except for my own) i root for the team w. tOSU players.
but i dont root for douchebags ..ie-S Holmes or Shane Olivea etc
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
oh
btw imo, Asante Shamuel is a pos
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
i dont care if it was a play that decided the super bowl.. there is a person out there with family (collies wife if 7 months pregnant) that is motionless on the field. lets discuss the penalty on monday and just give him the respect he deserves when hes motionless on the field at that moment.. this gives the enitre wold a look at what its like to actually play for philly.. i like mcnabb even more now and will be cheering the redskins for the rest of the year..
penalty was right
..while I doubt it was intentional, 42 did go into Collie helmet first. That is a personal foul. Another player ALREADY HAD HIM TACKLED and this was the third defender in .. Collie WAS defenseless at that point as he had no way to evade or brace for that hit as he was already going down. This is exactly the sort of thing the league is trying to crack down on as the hit was TOTALLY UNNECESSARY. I would be shocked it there wasn’t a fine or even a suspension.
There is NO WAY that should have been a turn over when a player loses the ball because you knock him senseless with that kind of hit.
Yes, I understand the philly players were frustrated, but they should have shut up as soon as they realized Collie was down. They were still running around screaming and the fans were booing when he was clearly lying there potentially seriously injured.
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing...
Here's the hit.
He’s not going for Collie’s body. He went for the head. If you can look at that and tell me 42 didn’t know he would hit helmet-to-helmet then you are delusional.
by ActionOxford on Nov 8, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
You can't be serious
I saw a shoulder hit by #27 (Quintin Mikell). I saw #42 (Kurt Coleman) coming in as reinforcement in case Mikell misses. When Mikell made the hit, he changed Collie’s direction and pin-balled Collie into Coleman’s helmet, who had no chance of holding up. Don’t go by still photos when the proof of what happened is in the video. What happened to Collie was unfortunate. What happened to Collie was a clean and legal football play.
Answer this question for me: Did Austin Collie make a reception on that play?
I didn't perform well when it mattered most.
by Justin F. on Nov 8, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Appeared to be a reception and fumble to me
Also don’t believe that 42 was trying for helmet-to-helmet.
However, helmet-to-helmet did result and 42 clearly could have avoided the situation by trying to tackle (use arms) rather than hit (with shoulderpads).
If the league is serious about trying to cut down on damaging hits, then 42 must be fined or suspended.
yes, but the fumble is negated by the penalty
as the penalty happened in the course of causing the fumble or just before, so yes it was a fumble, but you can’t drill a guy in the head to get one.
42 made no effort to tackle he drove in with his helmet low. watch the replay. That type of action will inevitably lead to helmet to helmet contact. Had his arms been out to tackle Collie instead of drill him, this wouldn’t have happened.
Leading with your shoulder is dangerous when the runner is already wrapped up with another defender as he has NO WAY to protect himself.
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing...
I am serious.
42 is looking right at Collie’s helmet. He didn’t know he would strike helmet to helmet? Really?
Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VESKYKlcDo
Right before he hits 42 puts his head down and goes for Collie’s head.
And yes, it was a reception.
by ActionOxford on Nov 8, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
If you believe it was a reception, any argument you put forth about it being a “dirty” hit is null and void. He has established possession, therefore Austin Collie is not a defenseless receiver ,per the NFL Rulebook. Furthermore, helmet-to-helmet contact can be permitted in some situations, per the NFL rulebook. Under the guise that was a completed pass, helmet-to-helmet contact can be permitted, per the NFL rulebook. The proper ruling on that play, per the NFL rulebook, is a fumble, Eagles ball, with no penalty called and no later consequences for Kurt Coleman (#42).
Yes, I am an Eagles fan, but what I have stated above are not observations or opinions. They are facts.
I didn't perform well when it mattered most.
by Justin F. on Nov 8, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Quit saying "per the NFL rulebook"
There are a lot of “can be permitted” in there. When is not permitted? If it is sometimes not permitted then what about Coleman’s hit to the head escapes the impermissible hit to the head? Stating, “per the NFL rulebook” does not actually distinguish what makes one hit illegal and one legal.
In other words, your attempt to form a syllogism sucks, because you didn’t say why the specific facts here meet the standard NFL rule.
It's a lot easier to make an argument
When you don’t need to be bothered with silly details like facts.
Someone please answer this for me (honest question)
Would Phil Simms’ comment that there cannot be a helmet-to-helmet personal foul penalty if the receiver has established possession and become a runner imply that, if a WR were to catch a ball and run 10 yards and then be contacted by a safety who launched himself helmet-to-helmet agains the WR, it would not be considered a personal foul?
Dumb question, but that’s what I didn’t really understand about Simms’ comment. I understand the difference between a defenseless receiver and a receiver established as a runner (I think Collie established possession and it should have been a fumble), but what difference does it make when it’s helmet-to-helmet? It’s the same whether that contact is made at the catch or 20 yards after the catch, isn’t it?
Writer for Stampede Blue.
by Collin McCollough on Nov 8, 2010 11:29 AM EST reply actions
I agree.
Had Collie put his head down (as RB’s frequently do) when a defender is coming in, and they contact helmet to helmet, that is just bad luck.
Problem was here, Collie was already being tackled by another defender, so coming in leading with the helmet and shoulder is just dangerous. Collie COULD NOT alter his path to stop the collision and did not move so the defender couldn’t avoid it.
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing...
Helmet to Helmet is allowed
on a runner. The rationale is that the runner can tell when it is coming, and should defend themselves appropriately. Also, even with good form, helmets may hit each other. The difference is the guy who has the ball knows it’s coming.
Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.
by mgrex03 on Nov 8, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks!
Answer I was looking for.
Sets it up for such a gray area, though, in terms of when the receiver has possession versus when he is a runner. If you can make a football move as Collie appeared to, does that necessarily mean you’ve established yourself as a runner and are able to adequately assess the defensive situation? How do refs determine when a receiver has adequate situational awareness of the defenders around him? Even if Collie made a football move, I would have to think his concentration was still on securing the ball rather than looking up and being able to see defenders and make a move to protect himself.
It’s just a messy rule, I think.
Writer for Stampede Blue.
by Collin McCollough on Nov 8, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Distinction
Runners, which most always account for running backs, are generally going to lower their head when running forward into a tackle. This is to prevent a player for being fined/suspended/flagged for a helmet to helmet strike. That was the case in the Addai injury in Washington. He was tackled and inadvertently struck in the helmet.
The rule is not generally applied to WR’s until they are already running across the field with the ball in hand. Even in this case, it was such a bang bang play that you could rule either way and it would have been a split decision call.
by DevilsReject on Nov 8, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
It is a messy rule, I agree.
But it was pretty obvious that Collie made a football move, secured the ball, then lowered his head/shoulders to brace for contact. At that point he’s no longer a “defenseless receiver.”
Having said that, it was such a bang/bang play that you can’t completely fault the refs for calling it. The problem I have is after people see the replay, some of them still try to argue that it was a dirty play and dirty hit.
It was not. It was just an unfortunate hit and outcome for Collie (and the Eagles as a team).
I have the same problem with people who claim it was clean.
Went for the head and got it. Philly fans love that shit. At least no one puked on him.
by ActionOxford on Nov 8, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, I shouldn't have said that.
That was beyond the pale.
At the same time
42 had the ability to see where Collie was heading, and then lowered his shoulder and head, thereby hitting Collie’s helmet with his own. 42 at that time was the player in the best position to avoid the HTH. Collie had been wrapped up and was no longer capable of avoiding the hit or changing his body position which does render him defenseless.
exactly...
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing...
the problem I have
Is 42 was NOT the first player to contact Collie. clearly two of his team mates were already there and he was going down, so lowering your head/shoulder and going it is unnecessary and dangerous, as he equally as well could have hit is own team mate. It is just a stupid thing to do.
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing...
"Football move"
Tired of a player taking two steps being considered a football move. In no way was Collie’s first two steps a ‘football move’ … it was the only two steps he was able to take before getting obliterated and it was the two steps he took to secure the catch, not to avoid contact or make a juke move.
by nickfromnaptown on Nov 8, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
The hit was clean...
The Eagle players and fans reaction was not. I wasn’t surprised.
Stay classy, Philadelphia.
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