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People bash Peyton Manning because it's fun... and because they have no life

The annoyingly obvious result of a Peyton Manning Colts team losing a Super Bowl is the inevitable haters that will crawl out from their hiding places and throw their own dung at the best QB in football. Again, none of these cowardly buffoons had the stones to bash Manning when he was carving up the Ravens, Patriots, Jets, and pretty much everyone else in the NFL in 2009. But, after throwing for 333 yards and a TD (88 QB rating), the haters come out of the woodwork to attack Manning for throwing an INT with 4 minutes left in a game, calling him the same names he's been called since he entered the league in 1998.

As I have always maintained, such people are losers who likely do not get laid on a regular, consistent basis, and thus need to let out their anger and aggression at something beautiful. And, what is more beautiful in the NFL than Peyton Manning? For loser-football-Manning-hater fans, like this guy, they choose Peyton Manning because he is an easy target and because the guy throwing for their team is so obviously inferior that they need to tear down the Great Peyton rather than, you know, hold their own guy to a higher standard.

Per usual, when we need sage football advice from somebody who knows what they are talking about, we go to Trent Dilfer.

No really. I'm serious.

Show me a better on-air TV analyst. Show him to me! Dilfer was a VERY welcome change to the Sean Salisbury element ESPN had polluting their already bile-filled river of content. Dilfer is the flower drifting effortless down that bile river. Yes, I just called Trent Dilfer a flower.

From Don Banks at SI.com:

"The thing is, I would argue it was a much better play by Porter than it was a bad play by Wayne and Manning,'' Dilfer told me. "I'd say it was about 80-20 in that regard. The thing that [ticks] me off is that we have so many different platforms to explain the game to people, and yet they still don't seem to know that you can do things right as a quarterback at times and still have things go badly.

"Other guys make good plays too. I've seen that interception now on film, and I've seen the replay a million times. I've talked to coaches on the [Colts] staff. Porter jumps the pattern. He's recognizes the pattern, and he jumped the throw based on his film study. It was a great play by Porter based on being prepared. That happens in football. The other guy can make a better play than you make.''

Trent, baby, come here and let's talk.

You see, for idiots like this guy, it's not about "analysis" or "recognizing patterns" or educating the public on the game of football. Nobody supposedly cares about that. This is all entertainment, not "journalism" or anything like that. It's much easier, and generates more eyeballs to the screen, to boil everything down to silly catch phrases like "The QB choked," or "Roethlisberger is better than Manning."

You know, dumb crap that makes no logical sense, but is written and said anyway because it's "edgy."

Again, I'll just point out the obvious: Anyone who says Peyton Manning "choked" in the Super Bowl is a f*cking idiot. Anyone who says the Super Bowl "damaged his legacy" is a f*cking idiot. Anyone who did not have the stones to bash Manning before the Super Bowl, but is doing so now, is not only a f*cking idiot, but a coward to boot. This is not about "lowering the conversational discourse" or any stupid crap like that.

People who bash Peyton Manning are f*cking idiots.

They are the kind of people who think Vince Young can still play QB; the kind of people who thinks Drew Brees is now guaranteed to go to the Hall of Fame; the kind of people who think "Redskins" is an appropriate team nickname in a country that elected a black president.

F*cking idiots.

I apologize for the language, but not the intent. We are all surrounded by idiots in our daily lives, from the boss who asks you to do his work for him to Jets fans next to you in the bar who says that Rex Ryan is the next Bill Parcells. Rather than kindly and passively ignoring their obvious stupidity, it is sometimes best to point a finger at that somebody, call them a f*cking idiot to their face for their opinions that they share with you without you even asking for them, and walk away from them as their stare at you, stupefied that anyone DARED to call them out on their BS.

Again, this goes without saying (but I'll say it anyway, because no one else is): We Colts fans make no apologies for Peyton Manning because no reasoned, logical football fan needs to make apologies for greatness. He is the best, period. He defines greatness. Anyone who disagrees is either a Patriots fan or an idiot.

Logical and simple to remember... unlike anything written by Jason Cole.

Peyton has kicked far too much ass for 12 years for we Colts fans to apologize for it. In a league where multi-million dollar players are routinely called out for being lazy, stupid, and uninterested in winning, the guy running my team's offense lives and dies with every loss. Every tiny little mistake he makes he kills himself for, and he never, EVER is satisfied with anything he does.

Apologize for that? Please. Keep throwing it, Peyton. F*ck anyone who hates on Peyton Manning. Haters gonna hate, and anyone who hates on Peyton Manning is a f*cking idiot.

Manning_medium

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I love how Indy was one drive from tying the game, but they say Manning "choked".

I also love how they fail to analyze the Porter pick. Most of you saw the various analyses in previous threads, but in short: Manning read Wayne one-on-one with Porter. As I said before, since when is he not supposed to take advantage of that? Donnie Banks was right; Porter made a great read. That’s as far from “choking” as you can get; Porter was on an island with a Pro Bowl caliber, #1 receiver on a Super Bowl squad. But Porter elevated his play, and that’s where we are today.

People want to cry “choke!” because they want to hate. Not because they’ve intelligently analyzed the game. I’ll give Manning criticism when it’s due, but it wasn’t due there. Believe it or not, I think there were worse throws in the game. This one did the most damage, but as far as decision-making, I think there were other throws that you’d have to classify as poor. Not this one. This one was a decent throw that got outplayed by the D, and yes, there is a difference.

------

"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."

Roger Ebert, Transformers review.

by E.M.H. on Feb 17, 2010 1:16 PM EST reply actions  

A few thoughts

A. Dilfer is way better than Salisbury. Plus, he doesn’t show people cell phone pictures of his junk.

B. I still think VY can be a good QB. I just think he needs a little time.

C. Porter jumped the route. He gambled and it payed off. Why can’t people see that?

D. Redskins might be wrong, but I don’t see what the connection is between the people of India and the city of Cleveland, or why everyone thinks Irish people like to fight.

"If you define your personality as creative, it only means you understand what is perceived to be creative by the world at large, so you're really just following a rote creative template. That's the opposite of creativity. Everybody is wrong about everything, just about all the time.

But ANYWAY..."
— Chuck Klosterman

by Addai Another Aday on Feb 17, 2010 1:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Porter studied some film

In my recollection, just about every time a team fakes an injury like the Saints did, the next play is generally the one Porter picked off. It may have even been a setup. The Colts are very much and in many ways creatures of habit.

As far as Redskins, I am an American Indian from the Miami tribe. I generally do not have a problem with the idea of American Indians as mascots, so long as it is done respectfully. A model for the way it should be done is Florida State.

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Faked an injury?

Dem Saints sure are huge cheaters faking all those injuries…whaaaat?

by Brothersko on Feb 17, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Oh shocking

Yes they are cheaters. When we had the momentum on offense, your guy faked an injury to catch his breath. Same thing several other punk teams did during the course of the year. I am sooooo looking forward to teams lining up next year kicking your precious Saints ass.

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

this is true

but I wouldn’t put the loss on that. It gave them a chance to regroup but they still had to execute. Shit happens

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Never said that was the reason for loss

just that Porter had done his homework on what plays we run when an injury is faked. There are plenty of reasons for the loss. Most are missed opportunities by the Colts.

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Never said that was the reason for the loss...

just another excuse.

So basically you’re saying:
Porter studied the game film and knew of the many, many players that fake injuries against the Colts. And what play do the Colts ALWAYS run after a faked injury? The 10-yard comeback to Wayne of course. Porter then told his team-mate to fake an injury because he knew that Manning would call this exact same “fake injury” play?

That sounds pretty plausible. Just one question: You said Porter knew what fake injury plays the Colts run, but do the Colts have seperate plays that they run after legit injuries?

by Brothersko on Feb 17, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I was pointing out Porter did his homework

not excusing anything. I am saying that the Colts are known for running the play that was intercepted after players on the oppossing squad fake injury. You seem awful defensive of the Saints for a non-fan and you didn’t show up over here until after the Saints won the SB. The Colts failed to execute properly in order to win the game.

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

If you look at my past posts

you’ll see that I’m not a Saints fan. I don’t even know why I’m responding to personal attacks when we are debating a football game. I don’t give a shit what team you think I root for, it doesn’t make your point any more or less valid.

What you’re saying is that the Colts often run the same play after a fake injury, but I am wondering if the Colts also have a “go-to” play to run after real injuries as well. Is there certain plays that the Colts run after ACL tears as opposed to PCL sprains? How about the go-to play that the Colts run after an opponents breaks his leg?

I’m very interested in why a team like the Colts would run plays differently if an opponents injury is real or not.

by Brothersko on Feb 17, 2010 7:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Personal attacks?

Boy I have even got to warm on that. When I attack you, I promise you will know it.

Peyton is well known for NOT allowing defenses to substitute. So when he is in that mode, you find alot of teams fake injuries. Normally we make said team pay for it. It is punishment for cheating. They are getting a free time out and hoping to stop our momentum. As in the case of the Saints player, after they catch their breath, they jump up and run off the field and then return the next eligible play.

Peyton does some plays to humiliate the other side when warranted. I can think of an occassion this year where a player was excessively celebrating a nasty hit on Addai and Manning almost caught them in the backfield and made them take a time out to avoid offsides.

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard

The basis of your point is that Peyton calls plays based on whether an opposing teams’ injury is fake or not. If the Colts have momentum and an opposing player tears his ACL, will Peyton call a different play than he usually calls after an opposing injury?

by Brothersko on Feb 18, 2010 12:20 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Tell you what asshole

How about you let me tell you when I am interested in your opinions.

by FineClub on Feb 18, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions  

How about

No.

Are you the moderator? No? Then I think i’ll say whatever the fuck I want.

by Brothersko on Feb 18, 2010 2:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Right

and I am really Bill Polian out here in disguise.

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Bill you're kinda a dick to everyone

you should lighten up

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

True that

“What?! You don’t agree with everything that I say? Saints suck! You’re a Saints fan, I know it! Everyone is gonna kick the Saints ass next year! Haha, you suck! Wait, what? You’re not a Saints fan? Bullshit, I’m gonna believe whatever I want with no evidence, Saints fan. You’re team is full of cheaters because one person may or may not have faked an injury. Everyone in the NFL cheats except the Colts because they all fake injuries to try to beat us! No , I don’t need to provide any evidence or examples of this widespread cheating that many teams do against the Colts, if I claim it happens, then it happens”

by Brothersko on Feb 18, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

well put

No one could be that oblivious to the pot/kettle thing, could they?

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Feb 17, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Love the quote from Pro Football Prospectus, might have even been written by a Pats fan (Aaron Schatz)
Choke is a four-letter word, an angry little expletive thrown around by individuals who need to make themselves feel superior to professional athletes

by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2010 2:44 PM EST reply actions  

That's awesome.

My theory as well.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Damn BBS, tell us how you really feel

and don’t hold back this time. Seriously, of course people hate Peyton, he doesn’t play for their team so they will trash him. The fear of what he is capable of drives them nuts. They know he can take their team out on any day of the week and so they hate him for it.

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 2:44 PM EST reply actions  

BBS..

While I agree with you on Peyton… Get the hell over it and try and maintain some minuscule form of professionalism for once. Please?

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 17, 2010 2:48 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

This is a blog

we don’t want to challenge society’s expectations now do we?

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I almost wish Peyton would retire

so the Colts could go 1-15 without him and MAYBE… just MAYBE the world would wake up to the reality that the Colts team is basically a big steaming turd without him. I hate to be so harsh, but someone, anyone, point out to me how the Colts win a game without him. The defense wouldnt hold too many people down, and without Manning to worry about, imagine what kind of aggressive game plans the Colts would face. No one would care about field position, no one would care about NEEDING to try a 52 yard field goal because of 18.

Opposing teams would just take the most +EV action in every situation because they know the Colts couldnt make them pay for their aggression.

The only way the Colts were winning the SB was with a perfect game from Manning, and that probably wouldnt have been enough, as we saw with the Garcon drop, even perfect QB play requires some fuckin help.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, but I know what Im talking about.

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 2:55 PM EST reply actions  

That may have been the best blog I've read on here...

BBS, you just achieved elite blogger status in my eyes. F*ck anyone who hates on Peyton. The whole f*cking football team doesn’t rest on his shoulders. There are 50 something other dudes on the roster there to f*ck sh*t up too! F*CK F*CK F*CKIDY F*CK D*CK SH*T APPLE C*DER!

by etid5353 on Feb 17, 2010 3:23 PM EST reply actions  

Would it surprise you to hear I agree?

Brady faced much of the same criticism after our SB loss to the Giants. It was a bit ridiculous, to say the least. That being said, I tend to agree with Don Banks. Porter did an excellent job and was clearly prepared for a Colts bread-and-butter play, one that is money in the bank on most occasions. Were there things that could’ve been done differently? Sure. Wayne stutter stepped too much before turning in, making it easier for Porter to jump the route. Manning locked onto the left side of the field and never looked elsewhere making it easier for Porter to figure out where the ball was going.

Choke artist? Please. Seconds before that play, I was still thinking to myself that Indy was still very much in the game. Down by 7? 3 minutes left? With the ball in Manning’s hands? He’s proven the game’s not over.

Blogger at SBNation's Patriots blog, Pats Pulpit

by MaPatsFan on Feb 17, 2010 3:35 PM EST reply actions  

I think that was more backlash for all the talk about clutch (the opposite side of the coin) before the Giants ended 19-0

I mean, personally I thoroughly enjoy seeing Brady play poorly in the postseason because it’s a high profile demonstration of what’s wrong with the choke/clutch concept.

by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmm...

…Manning passed for 333 yards on 31/45, with 1 TD and 1 interception
Brady was 29/48 for 266 and 1 TD.

Those are fairly comparable “successes”. So if Brady played poorly in the Super Bowl, Manning played just as poorly.

I probably misread what you said (if you’re referring to Brady playing poorly in the Super Bowl, see above. If you’re talking about this year, I fully agree. He lost us the game).

by Richard Hill on Feb 17, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

he's just saying in general

he enjoys Brady not playing well, such as this year. Not necessarily in SBs

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah yeah.

When Manning threw the pick I went “Ugh, bad throw” and then I realized who threw it and was happy.

by Richard Hill on Feb 17, 2010 7:45 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I know the feeling

I had a whole pub in Ireland screaming and cheering for Brady’s interceptions.

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

I hate it when I forget who I’m supposed to root for!

/I was rooting for the Pats when they played the Saints, therapy was required after that. ;)

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

haha

my husband recused himself to his office for the AFCCG and literally couldn’t decide who to root for. I think he was actually rooting against the Colts no matter what, but either way it hurt him.

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Feb 17, 2010 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

*relegated, not recused

he’s not a judge, lol

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Feb 17, 2010 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Who were you rooting for in that game?

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 8:36 AM EST up reply actions  

in that particular game (God help me)

I rooted for the J-E-(cough, hack, gag)-T-S Colts to lose.

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Feb 18, 2010 8:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Sounds painful.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I couldn't bring myself to root for the Pats there.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 8:35 AM EST up reply actions  

easy for me

I never root for the Pats

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Feb 18, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm sure your husband appreciates that ;-)

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

note that that's not to say

that every once in a while I root against the team they’re playing for, in the event that the outcome positively influences our playoff seeding…

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Feb 18, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

When that happens,

i root for both teams to lose. :)

Careful what you wish for... a government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take everything you have.

by teej813 on Feb 18, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

yes

commonly referred to on this board as a “meteor game”

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Feb 18, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Or a "car sized rock game."

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Tie!

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi

by gizzardfanny on Feb 18, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I still want to see one.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Ask McNabb if it's possible.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi

by gizzardfanny on Feb 18, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

He says only in the playoffs.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Then it must be true.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi

by gizzardfanny on Feb 18, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

That's how I read it too.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 8:34 AM EST up reply actions  

I think he was talking about the Postseason in 2007.

Brady was inconsistent in the 07 playoffs. He had one historic game (Jags), one bad game (Chargers), and one off-game. (SBXLII) Granted most of his ineffectiveness in the SB was due to his lack of protection yet he was a little innacurate on some throws even when he got time. That probably was b/c of how many hits he took. Either way, the O-Line was the reason the Pats lost in SBXLII. As was Belichick’s terrible defensive play-calling on that last drive. (An all-out blitz on first down against a three wide set from the 13 yard line? Allowing the slot receiver to get separation on a sideline pattern on 3rd and 11?)

"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning

by P0RKINS2 on Feb 17, 2010 11:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I don't have anything productive to add...

I just wanted to say I like your comments! I find you to be in the Top 5 “Most Respectful Fans of Other Teams” and I just thought I’d say thanks. It’s nice to see that you maintain a level of respect, especially when some of the Colt fans on here can be downright nasty.

by racer39girl on Feb 17, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't tell him that!!!!!

you’ll make him feel good about himself. He’s a dirty no good Patriots fan!

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Thought the exact thing

but that’s just us mean ol’ nasty Colts fans.

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe...

but BBS didn’t include Patriots fans in the “idiot category.” That’s practically a compliment!

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Feb 17, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

He is saving that for next week

no reason to alienate everyone at the same time

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

well

dont you remember that comment in left last week @ our site….the one that was deleted by SMP

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
i love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.....159mph is my top speed
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
(formerly mathew.40)

by NinjaZX6R on Feb 18, 2010 1:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I came in right after

and saw your comment asking SMP about it. But I missed the original offering from him so to speak. A rant?

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Feb 18, 2010 7:53 AM EST up reply actions  

just a nasty angry rant

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
i love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.....159mph is my top speed
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
(formerly mathew.40)

by NinjaZX6R on Feb 18, 2010 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

He made a special category for your kind ;-)

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 8:38 AM EST up reply actions  

You do realize that claiming Manning to be the best is outright fanboyism, right?

For the past two years my QB has outperformed your QB. The NFL is a “what have you done for me lately” league, and even though Peyton has put up some great stats over the years, he has been outdone the past two. I know some of you will want to toss crap back at my QB and team, and that’s fine. I expect it. But… head to head in Superbowls, your QB has more yards and INTs, mine has more TDs, completions, and wins. I’m not saying that Peyton isn’t a great QB, and one of the best in the league right now, I’m saying straight up that he is one of the best in the league right now, he just isn’t THE BEST. If he was, then he would have won that big game against the #25 defense while having a better completion percentage than the guy on the other team.

Let’s take this out of perspective for a second… Player 1 completed 32 passes with only 7 incompletions for 2 TDs and no interceptions playing against the league’s #14 pass defense. Player 2 completed 31 passes with 14 incompletions for 1 TD to go along with 1 interception playing against the league’s #26 pass defense. Without attaching names to these players, which one would you say is the better QB?

Both had great games in the SB, but one is clearly better than the other, especially when you adjust for defense (as some of you like to do around here). If the stats and outcome of the game were reversed, there’s no way you would even think about hearing that the other guy was actually better. You’d LOL ‘till you fell on the floor and died of laughter. Again, I’m saying straight up that Peyton is one of the best in the league, but try not to let your admiration for your QB blind you to the fact that there are others that have performed just as well and better. It’s okay to say he’s your favorite and claim him as one of the best, but calling him the best in a year when he was clearly not is a slap in the face to the players who outperformed him.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 3:36 PM EST reply actions  

I knew you'd go beyond this season shake...

Did you notice that I started with the past two years, and didn’t go beyond that? Peyton WAS the best, but he hasn’t been for the past two years. He’s still one of the best, but he isn’t the absolute best RIGHT NOW! You can talk about legacies and past accomplishments who was the best QB for their career when they retire, but when they’re playing, you have to talk about what they’re doing NOW.

p.s. I see you like to touch yourself when you talk about Peyton… the smile says it all!

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Shake did you not notice that he took a 32 game sample size that would prove his point?

Since you want to adjust for defenses in the Super Bowl let’s take a look at the last 32 game sample size.

Peyton Manning has been the 2nd best QB in the league the past 2 years according to the highly advanced FootballOutsiders and their DYAR stat. He was number 1 in DVOA in 2008 and 5th this season. Over that 2 year average Peyton has been the highest performing QB in the league. What have you done for me lately? Just been the best most consistent player in the league for the last two years.

Drew Brees was 4th this year and 1st last year in DYAR and 3rd both years in DVOA. Average those babies out compared to the rest of the league QBs and that puts him as the second best over the last two years.

Sorry your argument over the last two years of Drew Brees greatness seems to have run into the Iceberg Manning.

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Hmmm... funny thing is, the MVP voters over that same timeframe seem to disagree with you

------

"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."

Roger Ebert, Transformers review.

by E.M.H. on Feb 17, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I know... but that's about to change.

In order to beat Drew for another MVP, Manning will actually have to have a better year statistically. I’m not saying that it can’t be done, I’m just saying that it will have to be done, instead of him getting the nod for being close and having better career stats.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

you mean like this year?

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I love when you bring up FBO

They have an amazing ability to make you believe that up is really down, and red is actually green. If they weren’t so obscure, as compared to, say, ESPN, Sports Illustrated, Yahoo Sports, hell, even Fox Sports, then they might be the authority on such matters.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow.

You actually take ESPN, SI, Yahoo Sports and Fox Sports seriously? How’s that kool aid working for ya? lol

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

mind you they're all full of shit when talking about the Saints Defense

you know cause they don’t know what they’re talking about

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Cherry pickers greatly annoy me.

Almost impossible to have an intelligent conversation with them.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 8:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Shake, I've said before and I'll say again...

I don’t make the stats, the QB’s do. The MVP is a vote, the stats are made on the field. I’m not siding with the media about the stats, I’m siding with the stat over the media vote.

p.s. The media doesn’t produce the stats either. They just display them on their websites.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

"I don't make the stats."

No, you just choose the stats and timeframes that help your QB and disregard those that don’t as being obscure or invalid.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 8:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Not the commentators, they're only good for picking the obvious...

I was refering to the statistics that they track. They’re all identical because they all record what was actually done on the field. Putting Manning & Brees side by side for the past two years, comparing their raw stats, Brees has been better.

This year Brees has been where no one else has been in terms of accuracy, and last year he set the record for completions in a season as well as being only the second person ever to throw for 5000 yards. Brees threw for almost a thousand more yards and seven more TD’s than Peyton last year. There is no argument that you can make that trumps that. Peyton won the popularity contest, but he was not the most productive QB, nor the one that meant the most to his team. Again, I’m not saying Peyton is a bad or below average QB, I’m just saying that when you compare his raw stats to those of Drew Brees, Peyton isn’t even close.

This year was a lot closer, but as I said before Drew went somewhere that NO QB has ever gone in terms of completion percentage, without the benefit of a single Pro Bowl receiver to throw to. At least Manning had Wayne, and Clark.

Give your arguments for why Manning won the 2008 MVP over Brees, and see if those same reasons hold up when you compare their stats for 2009. I’m willing to bet you’re either going to have to leave stats out of it altogether, or practice some Orwellian double-speak to justify your position.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

For the record,

most of us here like Brees and agree he’s a damn good QB. For me, personally, when he’s able to maintain the level he’s played at for the past two years, for say, another 8 then I would put him up there with Peyton, Brady and the others. That’s all.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, yeah.

That’s a little much for my tastes…but hey, whatever floats your boat.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't hate Brees

because I do not feel we lost the game because of what he did. We lost the game because we didn’t do our thing.

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Too true.

That was the sloppiest I’ve seen our boys in quite some time.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Every time Session missed a tackle,

i died a little.

Careful what you wish for... a government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take everything you have.

by teej813 on Feb 18, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, believe it or not, I agree with you.

I would not put Brees in the same category as Brady in terms of legacy. That guy is a solid winner that does it in the post season as well. My hat is off to him. I wouldn’t put Brees in the same category with Manning in terms of regular season legacy, that guy has been great for over a decade, while Brees is just now going beyond good into greatness. My argument isn’t about their legacies, it’s about how they are playing right now. You won’t hear me argue that Brees has a better regular season career until he actually does. Just to put it in perspective, we all know Adrian Peterson is a great running back, but there’s no question that this year Chris Johnson was better. AP has a longer and better legacy, but this year in particular, he can’t be called the best RB in the league. That’s my argument. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

AP has only been playing for 3 years...

but you know what? Legacy is subjective. I think Peyton is the best to ever play the position. I think that he’s changing the way the position is played. Another argument for another day.

Brees is a damn good QB and, even more importantly, a damn fine human being.

And really, Brady’s post season success hasn’t been recent. Plus, I’d argue that his defenses during those great SB years were the best in the league at the time.

But like us here on a Colts’ fan blog, you are entitled to your opinion. Just don’t think you will get any of us to agree. Just like we wouldn’t win any arguments at the Pats’ or Saints’ blogs. ;-)

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Please explain to me

why raw stats are better than rate stats?

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

because they don't support my argument

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

But of course.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 8:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Rex, I'm looking at FBO right now

Some of you site DVOA and DYAR as reasons Manning is better than Brees the last two years. I’m sorry, but something is wrong with the stats when in 2008 the Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement between Manning and Brees is only 19 yards, even though Brees threw for nearly 1000 yards more than Manning during that season. We didn’t have a Pro Bowl calibur back up QB in 2008. As a matter of fact, we all prayed nothing happened to Brees because if it did our season would tank even worse than it did. C’mon man, even you have to admit that there’s something screwy there.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sorry, YAR is only 19 yards, DYAR is less than 200.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 8:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I feel I must point out who our back up has been

for 6 (?) years – Jim “Clipboard holder” Sorgi, hardly a Pro Bowl calibur back up. Plus, for the first 6 games of the season, Peyton played on one leg in 2008. That’s right – one leg! Amazing, really. lol

So, every year, we pray nothing happens to Peyton. Otherwise we’d go 4-12 or something close to that. And that’s no lie.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Have you seen Mark Brunnel play lately?

He got some good playing time in for us during our three game losing streak to close out the season. He hasn’t thrown for more than 3300 yards since 2001, and his QB rating this year was around 45. Sorgi was around 88 in 2008.

p.s. Don’t bash Sorgi, when he did play in 2008 he was 22 for 30 with no INTs and you guys won 23-0. It isn’t his fault he’s playing behind a perreniel Pro Bowler. Ask Aaron Rodgers, Mark Bulger, Tom Brady and Phillip Rivers what that’s like.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I'm not a basher, believe me.

I missed him sooooooo much when Painter went in v. the Jets and the Bills.

He did ok in week 17 even if it was against Tennessee’s practice squad. Just kidding, but no starters played on either side of the ball after a few series. So basically, our back ups were better than the Titans’ back ups. lol

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

You're going to argue with 1 game sample sizes now?

Ryan Fitzpatrick played better against the Colts than Drew Brees did, according to QB Rating. Is Fitzpatrick better than Brees?

And don’t argue about playing against backups, because that’s what Sorgi did last year against Tennessee.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

he's not the brighest bulb in the bakery

he only agrees with what supports his argument.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 8:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Spaz, thanks for sharing your opinion.

Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t mean I’m not more intelligent than you. Of course, you would be able to figure that out if you were even half as intelligent as you think I am.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

HOOHAAA

You’re not intelligent.

This has nothing to do with the fact that your opinion differs from mine.

It has to do with the fact that you’re not intelligent.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 8:45 PM EST up reply actions  

and you base this on the fact that I don't agree with you?

Or because I picked the Saints to win for all the wrong reasons, even though it did go down the way I said it would?

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

First

you keep bringing up the fact that you picked the saints to win. I did as well. Would you like a cookie?

(Here’s a hint: I didnt pick them to win because of Drew Brees)

Second, no, I don’t base it of the fact that you don’t agree with me. Since thats the 4th time you’ve said that after I’ve said thats not the reason, perhaps you can start to realize that:

I’m saying you’re not intelligent because of the fact that every time you post you come off as ignorant. I’m not saying this as some sort of grade 5 insult. I’m saying this as, well, truth. I’ve yet to see you post something even remotely intelligent.

From ranting about your big burly muscles to your ignorant, uninformed fanboism, nothing you post would prevent me from getting you a full refund from whatever school kept advancing you to keep you out of their hair.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

or is it simply because I picked the Saints

When you and everyone else you agree with was picking the Colts, and your favored stats at FBO proved that the Saints would lose… despite the fact that the raw stats said that the Saints were a better offense than the Colts, and Drew Brees was a more accurate passer who threw for more TDs in fewer attempts?

Did I mention that the Colts’ offense played into the strengths of the Saints defense? They give up yards, but cause turnovers, especially in the passing game. I remember your argument about how the 25th ranked defense didn’t stand a chance and that you beat the Jets and Baltimore, who were supposed to be so much better defensively than the Saints defense. Hey, how did that turn out for ya? Which one of them held you to fewer points than we did?

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I picked the Saints to win

I picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to winI picked the Saints to win

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

since you seem unable to read

I made sure I plastered it enough times for it to sink into your superior army head.

My opinion of you has nothing to do with who you thought would win the Super Bowl. Each time you post, you validate my opinion of you.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

hold on let me get this straight

YOU picked the Saints to win?

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

unfortunately.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah I remember thinking you were being

sarcastic at first. Then when you were serious I got a bad feeling about it all

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

har har funny

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm serious

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

that's what he said...

I’d like to know why, and if he was being facetious. I remember him saying so over at CSC, but in the same post he spoke rather sarcastically about the guy he claims is better than Brees. If I remember right, his reasons were because the Colts wilt under the bright lights… am I correct Spaz? Is that the real reason, or were you just being facetious?

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

more validation.

Here’s a hint, Mensa:

I can both think that Peyton Manning is infinitely better than Drew Brees AND think that the Saints have a better team than the Colts.

DUCY?

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Uh uhhhhh....

You haven’t answered the question… especially considering that you are one of the FBO stat guys. What part of the Saints did you think made them a truly better team than the Colts?

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

special teams

running game
pass defense

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

dwight freeney's foot

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm still pissed that they had Freeney's foot playing for them

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

it was an unfair advantage

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm convinced we would have won

if Freeney hadn’t injured his foot against the Jets.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 9:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Ironic, isn't it?

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

We can share in that hatred.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Why didn't you pick the Saints to win

in the Super Bowl prop bets then?

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 9:11 AM EST up reply actions  

i didnt wanna get shit

for picking against ‘my team’.

In real life, I picked the Saints. I mean, i bet on the Saints.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 18, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Banned!

/jk

If I were a betting woman, I would have taken the points myself. I mean, I thought we’d win but by less than 5.5.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 18, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

No, and you of all people

should be able to look at Sorgi’s stats and compare them to Brunell since 2005. You have to admit, when Sorgi was in to play, he wasn’t a complete slouch. In the 14 games he played for the Colts, he had almost a 90 QB rating. I know it’s a small sample size, but he was playing behind Manning. I’m sure he’d have a larger sample size if he played for Washington during that stretch.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

If Sorgi was so good

somebody would have traded for him.

Sorgi has never played with a first team offense, and has rarely played against a first team defense.

And arguing who has the better backup has absolutely no bearing on whether Brees has outplayed Manning in ‘08 and ’09. You and me could have been the backups, and it wouldn’t change anything.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 8:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't say he was great, I just said he wasn't a complete slouch.

As for the argument about the better backups, what exactly does the DYAR on FBO examine? Am I reading it wrong? If I am, I apologize. Please enlighten me… seriously. I’m not being sarcastic.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not comparing the QB to his respective backup

It’s comparing their play against a league average player.

For example, according to DYAR, Seneca Wallace would be that player in 2009, as he has 0 DYAR. So DYAR is measuring how much more value QB X has than Seneca Wallace. In 2008 it was somewhere between Gus Frerotte and Brian Griese.

It doesn’t help as much when comparing in the same year, but when you compare say 2006 Brees vs. 2009 Brees, it gives it a good baseline for the comparison.

FO is all about taking out the “error” that inherently exists in any statistical study. Of course you can never get rid of all of it, but it does a much better job than simple stats.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

if Sorgi was so good

perhaps his current team wouldn’t accept trade offers

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Feb 17, 2010 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Huh?

are you making a funny?

If Sorgi was so good, why wouldnt they take the first round pick and upgrade some part of the team that will see the field.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I wonder who would be a better backup,

you or ArithMatic.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 9:17 AM EST up reply actions  

First of all,

1 game sample sizes are bad, and Sorgi played against the Titans backups on defense.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 9:02 AM EST up reply actions  

There is absolutely nothing screwy there

It doesn’t matter what kind of backup the Saints had. It is above an average replacement player in the NFL. They explain how it works, and I’d suggest reading their explanation, as it does a much better job than I could ever do.

DYAR takes into account the opponents faced,so if DYAR difference is bigger than YAR, then that means Manning faced a tougher schedule than Brees. Do you not think that is relevant?

Brees threw for nearly 1000 yards more than Manning

How many more passes did Brees throw than Manning? It might explain why Brees threw for more yards. And according to FO, those Passing Yards weren’t as valuable as the ones thrown by Manning.

As one example…say the Saints face 3rd and 18. Brees makes an excellent pass for 15 yards, but they have to punt on the next play, because they didn’t get the first down. Call this Play A.

Play B: The Saints have 3rd and Goal from the 2. Brees completes the pass for a TD.

According to the simplistic “Yards” stat, Play A > Play B. According to FO stats, Play B > Play A. Which play do you think has more value?

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

which one helps my argument again?

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 8:10 PM EST up reply actions  

See, this is exactly why I don't agree with this site

“And according to FO, those Passing Yards weren’t as valuable as the ones thrown by Manning.” The Saints put more points on the board than anyone the past two years, and accumulated more yards than anyone the past two seasons, yet somehow those yards don’t count, or don’t matter as much. WHY? Is it because they didn’t lead to more points… no… they actually did lead to more points. Is it because the two offenses were close? No, the Saints scored about 6 more points per game than the Colts in 2008, and about the same in 2009 as well.

You say that it’s a simplistic “Yards” stat, but it ignores the obvious and disregards the fact that Drew NEEDED to do all that he did just to keep the team from being under .500 for the season. He accounted for over 75% of the Saints offense. How is the offense he accounts for worth less than the offense Manning accounts for?

Look, I know we may never see eye to eye on this, but even you have to admit that if Peyton had put up those same numbers and had to endure an 8-8 season because your defense couldn’t stop anyone (not even Jason Campbell), you’d be very upset if someone who threw for 1000 less yards and seven fewer TDs was considered better by the voters.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I gave you a very simple example

of why their “Value” is different, yet you didn’t answer my question.

Which play was more valuable?

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

You know the last NFL MVP to not make the playoffs?

the 1960s. Look no further why Brees did not win the MVP in 2008.

Manning has endured year after year of defenses who couldn’t stop anyone, including this year, but has won at least 12 games each of the past 7 years. I don’t care at if if Brees NEEDED to throw for 5000 yards, as I’m guessing a good chunk of them came with the Saints losing, and opposing defenses playing prevent defenses.

Oh ya, that plays into FO “value” too. Yards aren’t as valuable down by 2 scores when the opposing defense is playing prevent, just trying to grind the clock out. Wouldn’t you agree it’s easier to pass in those situations, than in the 1st quarter? Since the Colts have won so many games by the start of the 4th quarter, Manning doesn’t have the “pad the stats” passes in the 4th quarter down by a lot.

Again, for an example, the Colts last drive after the INT would fall into this category. Saints were letting them catch the ball underneath, staying away from the big play. Those 60+ yards were exponentially easier than the 96 yard drive in the 2nd quarter.

Every passing yard is not equal. Once that clicks, we’ll be seeing eye to eye. If you can’t see that, there is no sense arguing this further.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with you about players who don't make the playoffs.

I know they don’t win MVP’s. That’s because it’s a vote, not because they didn’t deserve it.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

if we're going with that argument

then CJ deserved MVP over either QB

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

AJ, for once we agree...

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

2008 we lost 5 games by 3 points or less.

that’s the difference between 8-8 and 13-3. We averaged 3 more points than we gave up, which means we blew out more teams than blew us out. I know you say yards aren’t as valuable when down 2 scores, but that was NOT the case for the Saints in 2008. We averaged 28.9, we gave up 24.6. We lost 5 games by 3 points or less. Do you see why I have some contention with the stats you’re using?

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, Mensa

I answered your question above… I understand that hit and run was a common tact taught to you in the military, but I assumed along with those big ole muscles that are going to make mush out of my face came a pair of testes.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 9:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Sapz, this is the last time I respond to you.

You aren’t worth the time.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 10:23 PM EST up reply actions  

by not worth the time you mean

every time you post I make you look like a buffoon… so you’ve decided to just stop posting?

That’s a fine result for us.

HOOHAA.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Not at all

While everything you said is true (I assume), I just used an example of Passing Yards having different value. There are many, many more, like the

I don’t know everything that plays into those stats, as it’s proprietary to them. But I do know that they take more things into account than any other stat out there. Plus the things they include make sense, like the examples I’ve given.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

So, mgrex, even you admit that you don't completely understand it...

meaning you don’t know everything that plays into those stats, as it’s proprietery to them. Can you understand how I, someone who also doesn’t understand them and doesn’t know everything that goes into them, would be skeptical of them, considering that the results they post are so different from what has traditionally been used as the measuring standard?

Wouldn’t you be skeptical if those same stats somehow made Jason Campbell a better QB than Manning? It’s great if you’re a Campbell fan, but not so great if you’re a fan of other QBs that statistically performed better than Campbell.

I’m not saying Manning is Campbell when compared to Brees, I’m simply using Campbell as an arbitrary player that we can both agree has performed worse than either of our QBs.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Im pretty sure

that if the stats the mgrex uses (including his own) to form his arguments said that campbell was > Manning in a game, or over a season, or lifetime, that mgrex would use those stats.

Its called conviction in ones beliefs, or some such.

The brainwashed have no need.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I understand enough

to know that FO is infinitely better than saying QB A > QB B because he threw for more yards.

Manning threw for more yards in 2009 than Brees. If anybody around here uses that as a basis why Manning > Brees, I’ll call them out for using a dumb stat.

I also understand that not everyone can understand what they are doing. I just don’t know every single thing that goes in, but understand what they are trying to do. They have no agenda, just to find out who is playing the best each year.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

but you can understand why I'd be skeptical, right?

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really

You haven’t really given a good reason to be skeptical, other than it isn’t as flattering to Brees as Passing Yards is.

Believe me when I say it is the most comprehensive set of stats in football. They wouldn’t get linked to every major outlet if they were cooking up worthless information.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

mg, you know like I know most of the media gave the Saints no chance.

But looking at the raw stats, you could see that they had a very good chance to win. I think it would have been an upset if they LOST. They had a better offense that scored more points (even against common opponents), their QB was more accurate and their running game was better, not to mention that their defense was more successfully opportunistic. The raw stats say the Saints could win, but when people started adjusting stats for defense (completely arbitrary, btw) suddenly people believed the Saints couldn’t score enough to keep up with the Colts. The number 1 offense in the league somehow wasn’t going to be able to keep up with a team that averaged almost a touchdown less than they did. How is that possible, and why didn’t it happen?

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 11:06 PM EST up reply actions  

There were a lot of factors

One, the Saints did play an easier schedule than the Colts. They also had lost 2 games legitimately, which the Colts had not.

I think the biggest factor was how bad the Saints played against the Vikings, and how well the Colts played against the Jets. I don’t think it is unreasonable to look at those 2 games, and say the Colts had a better chance of winning.

Adjusting for defense is not completely arbitrary. It is a well-known formula that has actually been around for a very long time. Saying things like that can make people who read your argument completely dismiss it.

Anything can happen on a given Sunday. The Saints played better than the Colts. Because the “experts” didn’t pick it doesn’t make raw stats better at determining the better team than Advanced Stats. Many, many times an inferior team beats a superior team.

And for the record, my overall standings have the Saints 3rd, the Colts 6th, mainly because the Saints defense was much better than the Colts defense. In my previews I didn’t shy away from the bad numbers the Colts defense had.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't take it on blind faith that they are impartial,

just as you don’t take it for granted that some other sites are impartial. I know you don’t think the Packers are a better team than the Colts, and you don’t need FBO to prove it. Normal stats will do. Win/Loss will do. Seeing the teams play will do. Sometimes intent gets lost in translation. Sometimes people need others to call them out before they realize they’re making a mistake. If you don’t know what’s going into kool-aid, how do you know you aren’t being poisoned?

Okay, aside from that, do you think Manning was the better QB this year? If so, what are your reasons? If you’ve already done a breakdown you can just point me to it and I’ll go read it.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

They've been doing it since 1996

They have no agenda, and have made improvements to their formula every year. It’s really impossible for them to be partial to a certain team over the course of 15 years.

Just like my stats, I believe them to show me an impartial view of teams, without my personal bias. It said the Colts finished 6th this year, and the Patriots finished #1 overall. Do I think that’s correct? Not really, but that’s what it says impartially, so I’m willing to go with it. Needless to say I’ll be looking to improve it next year, but not looking to just make the Colts look better. The numbers are what they are.

I’m sure FO feels the same way about their stats. If you look around their site enough, you could probably find who they root for (many of them not the Colts). I can guarantee you though they don’t create their stats trying to make a certain team/teams look better than others. That would be very dumb.

I do think Manning was better than Brees this season, for a variety of reasons. I said before the Super Bowl I’d come back over to CSC with my argument within a month or so. I haven’t done it yet, but without a deep dive, Manning outplayed Brees in several categories. I’ll have a full analysis soon.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 11:27 PM EST up reply actions  

So,

what you’re saying is that since the stat you looked at doesn’t support your preconceived notions, there must be something wrong with it.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 9:01 AM EST up reply actions  

According to the FBO stats, the Saints back up QB would have thrown for 3100 yards

and the Colts back up QB would have only thrown for about 2200. Doesn’t that seem odd to you?

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Where are you getting that from?

Link please, as I don’t know what you are talking about.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I may be reading the stats incorrectly, but I'm interpreting

Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement as the number of yards the QB posts above that of the replacement (whomever that may be). If that’s correct, then 5069 – 1921 comes out to around 3100 yards.

Here’s the link:
http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2008

I’m new to FBO, so there may be some subtleties I’m unaware of. If I’m wrong, again, I apologize, but please explain this to me so that I can see what you see and we’re comparing apples and apples instead of apples and oranges.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I explained it for you up above

Basically, for 2009, how much better was he than Seneca Wallace.

A negative DYAR means you cost your team more than you helped your team.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

For this one, I used 2008 as the example.

FBO doesn’t figure into MVP voting, so this is strictly about stats. Can you honestly say that the 2008 Seneca Wallace would throw for 3100 yards as a Saint, but only 2200 as a Colt? There’s something that they’re accounting for that isn’t explained. Until it is, I don’t see how you can honestly accept that as a better indicator of quality of play than straight forward stats. What if their secret ingredient is their personal feelings about the team? What if they’re averaging the last three years and using that as the great equalizer for that particular season? My point is, if you don’t know how the stats are calculated, how do you know their methodology is sound?

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't subtract anything

That’s where you are getting confused.

Passing Yards, as a raw stat, have very little to do with DYAR. Until I work for FO (which I don’t see happening), I’ll never know exactly how they calculate it. All I know is it compares QBs against what a league-average player would do.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

And

I know their methodology is sound because they explained enough about how they came up with their numbers, without giving out the gory details.

Plus the results pass the “smell” test, so I’m willing to go with it.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

hey, it works for you...

but it doesn’t pass my smell test. Granted, I am a Saints fan, but I don’t see how there isn’t a 1000 yard difference in DVAR between Brees & Manning in 2008. It isn’t explained, and it doesn’t smell right. Not in my opinion anyway. Have a good night.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 11:12 PM EST up reply actions  

There isn't a 1000 yard difference

STOP SUBTRACTING THAT NUMBER FROM THEIR PASSING YARDS!

DYAR is a stat all by itself. It is the total value that QB was over the course of the season. They explain it here.

What they are saying is this:

The simple version: DYAR means a quarterback with more total value. DVOA means a quarterback with more value per play.

All adjusted for situation and opponent. So Brees had more total value in 2008, but Manning had more value per play. You can infer from this that Brees had more plays than Manning.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 11:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay, here's the raw stats from 2008

Name Team G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD Int Sack YdsL Fum FumL
 Drew Brees NOR 16 96.2 413 635 65.0 5069 316.8 8.0 34 17 13 92 6 1
 Peyton Manning IND 16 95.0 371 555 66.8 4002 250.1 7.2 27 12 14 86 1 0

In 80 more attempts, Brees had 1061 more yards than Manning. He also had 5 more INT. But his Y/A is 8.0, while Manning’s is 7.2. Considering that Brees also threw for 7 more TD’s for the season in only 80 more attempts, how exactly does Manning have more value per play? Brees had a higher TD to pass attempt ratio, Manning had a higher completion percentage, but as far as yards per pass attempt, it isn’t even close. If Manning threw the same number of passes, he would have still been short by almost 500 yards.

Again, something smells fishy about the way they do their math and determine who has more value per play. What are they throwing in there to make Peyton more valuable per play than Brees during that year?

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 18, 2010 12:16 AM EST up reply actions  

I gave you an example already

See the 3rd down example I gave above. Without context, it would like like the 15 yard pass would be better than the 2 yard pass. With context, the 2 yard pass is better than the 15 yard pass.

Again, I don’t know everything they put in there. Maybe a question to them would help you out. They are pretty responsive to questions. They can give you a better idea why it is, because they have the actual calculations they used.

Again, they look at every single play, and give a value based on the situation and outcome, based on years and years of data, not some bias for any certain QB/team.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 18, 2010 12:32 AM EST up reply actions  

mg, thanks for trying to show me your point of view.

Unfortunately, I still don’t get it. Are they valuing 3rd downs more than points? I will ask them some questions about their methodology, and I’ll be sure to let you know what response I get. If it makes sense, it makes sense and that’s all there is to it. If not, well, then I guess nothing will change. Have a good night.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 18, 2010 12:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Every play has its own value

based on situation, from -5 to 5 (I don’t know what it actually is, but I’m guessing it is somewhere in that range).

They don’t value “points” per se. I’m sure a play has more value when it scores a TD, and I’m also sure a 20 Yd TD Pass with no YAC is better than a 10 Yd TD Pass, because it is harder to do.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 18, 2010 1:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I'm curious to know what you think about these rankings

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teameff

especially concerning estimated wins. I give them credit for sticking by what their analysis told them, but if the results are wrong, do you chalk it up to any given Sunday? Or do you admit that sometimes their conclusions can be a little off.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 18, 2010 1:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Nothing is end-all be-all

I agree with it in as much as the methodology is sound, so I don’t think it is wrong.

No specific stat can tell you anything. I think this tells you more than simply Yds/Game, or Pts/Game. Certain situations and stats tell you a lot more about the game, and they have proven it statistical (as have I).

The Estimated Wins aren’t supposed to be exactly the same as actual wins for every team. Sometimes teams who play much better overall get beat because of an extreme deficiency in one or two areas (see Turnovers in NFCCG). My guess if you looked at just that game through the FO lens, the Vikings would come looking much better than the Saints, even though the scoreboard said otherwise.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 18, 2010 1:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Good thing

2 of the 4 ‘media outlets’ you listed have never, ever employed or currently employ FO for their advanced stats.

(Hint: http://search.espn.go.com/bill-barnwell/)

Im a douchebag, an asshole, but I know what Im talking about.

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

and if im not wrong (and hey, am i ever?)

a third, Yahoo, employs Mike Tanier (writes at Shutdown Corner), who is either still a part of FO, or is like their bastard love child.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, but I know what Im talking about.

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions  

You do realize I'm talking about stats, right?

Not opinions, not commentary, not DVOA or other stats that require adjustment, just plain old raw stats, like they use in baseball and basketball and hockey.

If you kept track, you’d know that at least 80% of the commentators on all sites were wrong about the Super Bowl, and I didn’t agree with them about what the outcome would be long before the game was played.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

like they use in baseball?

have you been around the baseball world in the last 5 years? Its far from raw stats. Very far. Sabermetrics? No? OK.

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

You're right about baseball.

Sabremetrics has changed the way teams evaluate players. But that’s because they take a players defense into account (more than just the number of errors), instead of just his offense. That really does give you a truer sense of a players worth on the diamond.

Football, well, I don’t see any glaring omissions on the scale of sabermetrics, since players usually only play on one side of the ball and besides line play and blocking (downfield or other), everything else is pretty well recorded at the skill positions. Of course, they can start taking propensity to create turnovers into account when they rank defenses…

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 18, 2010 12:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow
not DVOA or other stats that require adjustment

Let’s not compare them on a level playing field. That would just be ridiculous.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

hey douche mcsaggy tits

I’m tired of you tooting your own horn.

I predicted before the game that the Saints would beat the Colts 38-21. I predicted that the saints would score a defensive TD and would get a big special teams play. It’s not rocket science.

you’re still a moron.

You do realize I’m talking about you being a moron, right?

I use the same stats as basis for my arguments. I don’t cherry pick the ones that support me. I do not believe in using level 1 stats that don’t tell the whole story. I believe in using advanced stats. Thats what I do.

Your team won. No one here agrees with you. No one here cares about you. Go back to your hole.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah! Shame on them for relying on stats and analysis, instead of surface impressions on watching snippets of games.

Man, if they’d only drop that whole objective measures thing, then they could be completely authoritative!

Photobucket

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"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."

Roger Ebert, Transformers review.

by E.M.H. on Feb 17, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

MVP

is not about stats alone, genius. It’s just as much about what you do with the team you have and how you do it, i.e., intangibles. If it were about stats alone, there is no reason Chris Johnson should not have gotten it. Brees did not lead his team to the playoffs last season. Manning led them to 12 wins on one leg, no running game, and a past his prime receiver. Brees led the Saints to a 13 win season, but struggled against jokes of teams like the Rams and Redskins, and got clobbered by the Cowboys in a game where he needed to play well to cement his MVP candidacy. He played poorly. Manning led his team to a 14-0 start, did not lose any game he played fully in, and in the thursday night game on the road against the Jags where he needed to cement his candidacy, he did that and more. Brees had a great run game, a solid veteran defense, a good o-line, and an array of talented receivers. Manning had no run game due to poor run blocking, lost two of his three starting receivers and had to replace them with no-name young players that he turned into stars, also dealing with three season ending injuries to three key defensive starters, and led several comebacks when the odds were always against him. Brees couldn’t match that. The only thing you could say about Brees in the reg season that puts him ahead of Manning is that he clobbered the Pats where Manning had to comeback and beat them. Yet, the feel of a rivalry game is a bit different.

Manning was the better player this year. He was the better player last year. He was always the better player. He still is, and always will be, better than Drew Brees. He got you guys a ring, and that is teriffic. Manning did that three years ago, and would have this year as well if it were not for a severly hurt Dwight Freeney, key drops by Wayne and Garcon, penalties, a botched recovery attempt at an onside kick, and Wayne half assing the route that gave Porter an excellent play on it.

You all won fair and square and be proud. I respect Brees fully, and he certainly has passed Brady as the league’s #2 signal caller in my book, but saying he is better than manning is stupid, juvenile, and you know it. Take your SB victory and be happy, but don’t get delusional.

Manning > Brees. Manning > anyone of this era. Deal with it.

"A lot of times, Kenny, we have no idea what we're doing. But the DEFENSE doesn't know that we don't know what we're doing.....and that's next level." -Peyton Manning

by npb1985 on Feb 18, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Manning > Brees. Manning > anyone of this era. Deal with it.

Quoted for truth.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi

by gizzardfanny on Feb 18, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Manning > Brees. Manning > anyone of this era. Deal with it.

Quoted and Rec’d for truth and beauty.

Careful what you wish for... a government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take everything you have.

by teej813 on Feb 18, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Almost forgot...

“And, what is more beautiful in the NFL than Peyton Manning?”

NFL Cheerleaders. Any and all of them.

If you drink O'Douls, you don't drink. But if you drink 20 O'Douls in a half hour, then you're a [bleep]ing non-alcoholic. Non-alcoholism is a problem too. And there are symptoms, like when you fall down, does it always hurt?
- Mitch Hedberg, April 9, 2002

by ArithMattic on Feb 17, 2010 3:49 PM EST reply actions  

no

the answer is clearly saints fans.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, but I know what Im talking about.

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Personally,

I like the Giants’ view toward cheerleaders…don’t need them. I mean really, are you going to watch the game or the girls? If you want to go watch girls, just go to a strip club.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I have a DVR

I go back and watch the girls. They did put alot of time into their routines and getting all dolled up so it would be rude not to watch!

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, right.

lol

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Ewwww...

Female here, don’t make me go all “objectifying women” on you. lol

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Male here, I'm sorry, it's what we do.

Photobucket I mean, I’m sorry but… we do.

Hey, fellas: Anyone look at Tampa Bay’s squad? Meeee-ow!! Photobucket

------

"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."

Roger Ebert, Transformers review.

by E.M.H. on Feb 17, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok, you guys are going to force me to post

that yummy picture of Peyton. I’m warning ya!

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 8:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I believe earlier you were the one

wanting to be his glute therapist. I showered twice after that post.

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

His... *glut therapist*??

Photobucket

------

"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."

Roger Ebert, Transformers review.

by E.M.H. on Feb 17, 2010 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that LovinBlue, Indy Lori

and yours truly were willing to take on that task!

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 8:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course....

you bet…sure thing…..

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Remember: Both hands on the keyboard AT ALL TIMES!!

Photobucket

------

"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."

Roger Ebert, Transformers review.

by E.M.H. on Feb 17, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Crap like this

Is why the mainstream media doesn’t take you seriously. Everybody knows Peyton Manning is a great QB but the fact is he threw an interception on a game saving drive in the biggest game (so far) of his career.
So some people out there think he might not be Jesus. Really. How dare they. If everybody just agreed with you this world would be a much better place. And there wouldn’t be so many “f*ing idiots” out there. Unbelievable.
 I love this site it’s the best place ever for Colts news but If I was a president of an NFL team I wouldn’t allow you media access either. But this is just a blog right?

by Bleed__n_Blue on Feb 17, 2010 4:01 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

hmm

so let me get the MSM checklist ready:

1) Only a big game if Peyton loses it (check) (there’s no way any other super bowl or championship game could be bigger)

2) Because a QB throws an interception, its a choke job. It can never be anyone elses fault. It can also never be because of a plus play on the other side of the ball. (Check)

3) Don’t give any in depth knowledge of the situation or game, or other factors, boil it down to the least common denominator and then make quick, baseless statements, (Check)

Im a douchebag, an asshole, but I know what Im talking about.

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Haters?

What I hate is any amount of criticism by an individual that is directed towards Manning is met with Colts fans(mainly just BBS) calling that individual a “hater”, “troll”, “fucking idiot”, etc.

“What was that? You said Peyton might have made a mistake or be imperfect in some way? Fuck you fuck you fuck you fucking stupid idiot HATER! You’re just a fucking jealous fucking hater troll, fuck you, stupid dumb idiot!”

And is it possible for BBS to post one blog entry where Michael Tunison isn’t mentioned in some way? Get off his dick already.

by Brothersko on Feb 17, 2010 4:27 PM EST reply actions  

yeah something like that is always disappointing to read

both sides really lack perspective at times.

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean media and Colts fans

we all have our faults

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

he said f*ck, not fuck

as our friends at the Saints site tell us there’s a big difference

by shake n bake on Feb 17, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Damn

you beat me to it…

"If you define your personality as creative, it only means you understand what is perceived to be creative by the world at large, so you're really just following a rote creative template. That's the opposite of creativity. Everybody is wrong about everything, just about all the time.

But ANYWAY..."
— Chuck Klosterman

by Addai Another Aday on Feb 17, 2010 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL.

Nice one.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

woah

its like the last 15 minutes of my life didnt happen.

Is there any way we could market this? I have a few years of my life I’d like back.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, but I know what Im talking about.

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 4:38 PM EST reply actions  

yeah I've found a lot of that with my families Navy background

the Marines especially

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

wow

family’s****

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sorry, but my Marine friend says I must refer to you all as "squids", or he'll beat me up.

Photobucket




(Ps. Sorry!!)

------

"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."

Roger Ebert, Transformers review.

by E.M.H. on Feb 17, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

The only cadence we called in the Navy in basic

was “If you have a low IQ, you can be a jarhead too.” We would always call it passing their barracks and they would grunt and groan like animals over there so I’ll just consider the source. LOL

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I wanted to call him "Fruit Jar Cranium" to see the look on his face...

… but I’m too scared. Photobucket

________



LOL… actually, I’m just funnin’. I really do have friends in the Marines, and one of them I do know is a football fan (Chargers, da communist!), but I’m just sort of pokin’ fun at them wanting to call you all “squids”.

I need to email the guy this link… It’s been years, and I sort of miss poking fun at him. You know, asking him to add 2 and 2, explaining the rules of grammar, that sort of thing. Photobucket

------

"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."

Roger Ebert, Transformers review.

by E.M.H. on Feb 17, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

As an Army guy...

I LOVE Navy bashing…

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
i love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.....159mph is my top speed
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
(formerly mathew.40)

by NinjaZX6R on Feb 18, 2010 2:01 AM EST up reply actions  

So which is it?

In Don Banks’ article, Trent Dilfer says

“I think Peyton Manning has the greatest burden on his shoulders of anyone who has ever played in the NFL, at any position. He has to do more for his team than any player I’ve ever watched, studied and or heard of. He took a 6-10 team and took it to the Super Bowl. The Colts are completely dependent on Peyton Manning’s greatness.

If you agree that that statement is true, and that Manning has had to single handedly carry the Colts year in and year out, how does Bill Polian get credit for being the greatest drafting genius there ever was? By this argument, all he ever had to do to achieve that status was to draft Manning. Seems like it can’t be had both ways.

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Feb 17, 2010 5:22 PM EST reply actions  

i agree 100%

its all Peyton.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, but I know what Im talking about.

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Peyton has to carry the defense through the offense

because of the price of players put into the offense that leaves little to none left for the defense. The entire defense has to be built through the draft and the fact that the D has remained serviceable for this many years is a testament to the talent he can find in the late rounds to supplement the few defensive play makers.

Hence you can have your cake and eat it to.

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

But with the exception of this season

there has been nothing but complaints about the Colts’ defense over the years. No cake for you. (well, maybe once slice.)

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Feb 17, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

oh yeah there are complaints

because they’re nothing more than serviceable. There has been tons of talent over the years, there just isn’t any money to keep them so as the draft fills one need, another need leaves in FA.

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Now you're just trying to stir the pot....

sneaky, sneaky.

btw, its 82 degrees outside!! hahaha ;-)

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

damn!

you’re killing me here. Had to shovel yesterday (the heavy wet stuff) and I just ignored the fresh inch this morning hoping the sun would melt it. Ugh!

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Feb 17, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I lived in Germany as a teen...

I do NOT miss shoveling snow. ugh

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Watch it turn into ice instead.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Blrarghin.... Frippppkin.... BLHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Photobucket

Curse you and you’re… wonderful weatherPhotobucket

------

"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."

Roger Ebert, Transformers review.

by E.M.H. on Feb 17, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't feel too bad.

We have a totally inept state government. (NO POLITICS)

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 17, 2010 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, and you can fret about it

while lying on the BEACH!!!

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Feb 17, 2010 8:45 PM EST up reply actions  

well you can

but no one is going to listen to your complaints

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 8:47 PM EST up reply actions  

what complaints?

sunburn? not enough snacks? jellyfish?

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Feb 17, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

snacks

lack of snacks is definitely cause for concern

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

^This

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh, and Indiana's is some paragon of competence!

I say again: Photobucket

------

"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."

Roger Ebert, Transformers review.

by E.M.H. on Feb 17, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

i hate you

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
i love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.....159mph is my top speed
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
(formerly mathew.40)

by NinjaZX6R on Feb 18, 2010 2:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, that was a pleasant read.

It’s always fun to come here and see people swearing at each other and accusing them of all sorts of unpleasant things.

Makes my day

really, really, enjoyable

/could we recover a bit of decorum, please?

Careful what you wish for... a government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take everything you have.

by teej813 on Feb 17, 2010 6:04 PM EST reply actions  

there are only 2 reasons to visit stampede blue

1) reading BBS cuss someone out

2) Have sex with me

3) open threads.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, but I know what Im talking about.

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

3 out of 4 dentists agree about Trident

And the other two prefer Tic Tacs. ;)

------

"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."

Roger Ebert, Transformers review.

by E.M.H. on Feb 17, 2010 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I prefer Tic-Tacs too.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow

That is some intense Peyton love. I will take Mr. Brees anyday of the week and twice on Suberbowl Sunday!

For your information Viking's and Colt's fans, no matter how much you say it, you were not the better team in 2009.

by Grumps on Feb 17, 2010 6:17 PM EST reply actions  

garts

Im a douchebag, an asshole, but I know what Im talking about.

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

You can have him

I’ll take the playoffs every year and 4 MVP’s over Brees.

Our heads may be bloody, but they are unbowed. We will be back next year better than ever!

by coltsfan723 on Feb 17, 2010 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Easy There Big Blue

Disclaimer: I’m a Pats fan.

You have every right to defend your QB, but as I’ve said on this board before, until Manning’s playoff record improves, he doesn’t belong in the discussion of greatest QBs ever. I think that reservation belongs to those QBs who succeed when it counts the most: playoff time. Manning’s .500 record pales in comparison to Starr, Montana, Brady, Bradshaw and Aikman.

Until he improves his playoff record (and there’s still plenty of time for that), he doesn’t belong in the discussion. My humble opinion is that Manning belongs in the great but not one of the best category occupied by Farve, Marino, Kelly, and Fouts. He’s a Hall of Fame QB for sure, but not one of the greatest ever.

ps. SB losses suck and take a while to get over. I’m sure you guys will be back in the hunt next year. Good luck.

by JayzDC on Feb 17, 2010 7:38 PM EST reply actions  

you said your a Pats fan

therefore your opinion doesn’t count. :-)

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

But he's so nice

and well-mannered…

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Feb 17, 2010 8:49 PM EST up reply actions  

thats your opinion and you're a Pats fan

so that doesn’t count either :-)

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

wait...why is favre on that list

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
i love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.....159mph is my top speed
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
(formerly mathew.40)

by NinjaZX6R on Feb 18, 2010 2:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Beats me.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

Let’s boil down 12 years of an entire career into one stat and say that he has to improve that before he can be in the discussion of best ever. Yeah, that makes sense.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Measuring QB success by playoff/Super Bowl TEAM wins is retarded

You’re telling me that you’d rather have Bradshaw than Marino QBing your team?

by Exystence on Feb 19, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Uh BBS

If you are going to write this stuff then seems like you can come help deal with the inevitable trolls and what not it brings with it.

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 8:06 PM EST reply actions  

man he won't read this

if the reaction isn’t within 5 minutes of him posting it he doesn’t read the comments. Usually cause they’re bashing him.

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 17, 2010 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

haha

I’ve noticed that too. He’s like my brother – throwing stuff out there and then leaving the room to let everyone else mix it up. Hmmm… maybe… no.

Keep the faith!

by Marima on Feb 17, 2010 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey look!

A Patriots fan came here to troll! Watch it, Marima.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Feb 18, 2010 8:57 AM EST up reply actions  

LOL.

You didn’t deny being Marima’s brother…….

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 8:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I deny it

But I did sleep with his sister.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Feb 18, 2010 9:02 AM EST up reply actions  

OK

That’s a lie. I admit it. :(

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Feb 18, 2010 9:02 AM EST up reply actions  

For shame.......

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 9:06 AM EST up reply actions  

This is, of course

I complete load of shit. Just because I do not comment in the comments doesn’t mean I do not read them.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Feb 18, 2010 8:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Busted!

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 8:58 AM EST up reply actions  

You just act like you don't read them

That is so much better.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi

by gizzardfanny on Feb 18, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

To all trolls and Saints Fans

We know you think Peyton sucks. We know you think your QB, whoever that may be, is better for whatever reason. We will gladly allow you to have your uneducated opinions. Since this is a Colts blog, you will most likely NEVER make an argument to make us believe Peyton Manning is NOT a great QB. So save us all the trouble and return to your teams blog forthwith.

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 9:01 PM EST reply actions  

Translation:

If you aren’t a Colts fan, your opinion is uneducated. No matter what you say to me, I will not change my opinion because I do not give a shit about opinions that differ from mine. I come on to this site to agree with people and have people agree with me, not have intelligent discussions where opinions may differ. So if you don’t agree that Peyton Manning is perfect and the best QB of all time, then take your differing opinions elsewhere.

by Brothersko on Feb 18, 2010 12:42 AM EST up reply actions  

exactly...

don’t like it? leave

Our heads may be bloody, but they are unbowed. We will be back next year better than ever!

by coltsfan723 on Feb 18, 2010 12:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Nope

That’s fine. Ignorance is bliss for some people.

by Brothersko on Feb 18, 2010 2:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Translation

No one thinks Peyton Manning “sucks,” unless that someone is a fucking idiot. No one thinks Drew Brees is a better QB than Peyton Manning, unless they are a fucking idiot, a Saints fan, or both. And based on your comments, from your account created all of 7 days ago, you’re the last person on the planet to be bashing anyone for a lack of intelligent discussions. Your account has been warned because all you’ve done is troll.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Feb 18, 2010 9:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Good.

That’s all he’s done since the SB. This blog would be much better without him.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't think I've ever said

that Manning sucks. In fact, I said I thought he was the best QB in the NFL. I agree that Drew Brees is an inferior QB to Manning.

If you don’t want me or others antagonizing fans here, perhaps you shouldn’t antagonize people with your blog posts. Every other post of yours is concerning a comedy writer who you are trying to goad into a blog war. And if any writer, fan, sportscaster, analyst, etc. says a single bad work about Manning or Polian, then they are “fucking idiots.”

If you’re a disrespectful prick who calls anyone who dares to disagree with you a “fucking idiot”, then other fans will take offense at that, and when they post on your blog they probably won’t be very respectful. You reap what you sow.

by Brothersko on Feb 18, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Fuck off troll

Your own words “I joined this site To drink in the sweet, sweet tears of Colts fans after the Superbowl loss. I haven’t been disappointed, either.” Go fuck yourself. I hope BBS kicks your ass out of here.

by FineClub on Feb 18, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

This is exactly what I'm talking about

You and BBS are complete pricks to other fans, yet you expect those other fans to share in the same opinions as yourself, and if they don’t share in the same opinion, they better fucking shut the fucking fuck up, fucking idiots.

“What? You don’t agree with us? Go fuck yourself, fucking idiot! BBS, make him go awayyyyy!”

by Brothersko on Feb 18, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

News Flash

Chronicle Street posters saying Drew Brees best QB ever. I say good for them. They are Saints fans. Anyone care to go argue with them? Anyone want to change their mind?

by FineClub on Feb 17, 2010 9:37 PM EST reply actions  

I spent 2 years in a spanish class

and learned to speak spanish.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Huh?

That was random.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

if you spend enough time around something

you’ll be infected with it.

If i go to CSC, I’ll be infected with their dumbs.

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 18, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah, OK.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Speaking of stats

Here is an interesting factoid:

Drew Brees threw 102 passes during the 2009 playoffs, the highest total in one postseason by a player who didn’t throw an interception. The previous high was 89 by Troy Aikman in 1992. In his pro career, Brees has thrown only two interceptions among 225 postseason passes. That interception rate of one for every 112.5 passes is the lowest in NFL history, ahead of Bart Starr’s rate of one pick for every 71 passes.

Peyton must have similar stats in the post season right? Probably just as good as Brees was this post season. Ooops. Sorry must have overlooked that part about NOT throwing a pick.

For your information Viking's and Colt's fans, no matter how much you say it, you were not the better team in 2009.

by Grumps on Feb 17, 2010 10:31 PM EST reply actions  

OH HAI PEACESIGN GUY

Im a douchebag, an asshole, wanna fuck? (and by fuck, i mean have sex)

by SpazMo on Feb 17, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Certainly impressive

Brees has played 6 playoff games.

Manning has played 18.

For now, I’ll take into account the small sample size. When/if Brees gets to 12+ games, and still is on that pace, then we’ll revisit.

Creator and developer of the Winning Stats.

by mgrex03 on Feb 17, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

You could also take into account

that Manning threw the ball over 42 times a game during the playoffs compared to the 34 times a game that Brees had. So the odds that you throw more interceptions will probably go up.

"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning

by P0RKINS2 on Feb 18, 2010 12:00 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Just a thought

You have to admit (or if you can’t see the similarities you really need to take the blinders off) that Peyton and Brees are very similar. Both very intense and passionate about the game. Both take losses extremely personal. Both masters of their craft. To disregard Brees as an elite QB is lunacy. While in NO, he has had staggering results with little known talent. Peyton has had Harrison, Wayne, Clark as his targets. While i love the talent we have in our receiving corps Brees spreads the ball around to everyone. Take away a target and someone else will get the ball. 19 different Saints scored TD’s this year (granted some on D). That is a crazy stat.

While i don’t “hate on Peyton”, i will be the first to admit he is a great QB, but my opinion is that if you “hate on Brees” you are about as big as an idiot as you claim all the Peyton haters to be. The man is all class.

For your information Viking's and Colt's fans, no matter how much you say it, you were not the better team in 2009.

by Grumps on Feb 18, 2010 10:41 AM EST reply actions  

I'm down with this

Brees is a great QB who has had an amazing year (I can’t speak for prior years only because the media didn’t focus on the Saints until they started 5-0, 6-0, 7-0, etc.). I also watched his Media Day interview looking for some nugget to grab and say, “SEE?!?! LOOK!!! That guy is an ASShole!!!” But it just didn’t happen. He’s upfront, honest, clearly loves the game, and is a good guy.

I don’t think he’s been consistently great, like Manning has, but I don’t doubt he has the ability as long as he has decent weapons. Would love for Brees to get into that discussion.

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Feb 18, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Who hates on Brees?

Other than Chargers fans, who really should hate on their stupid GM, who hates on Brees?

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by BigBlueShoe on Feb 18, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really anyone.

Brees is very likable.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 18, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

No one in their right mind should hate on him

He ended up taking a bad situation – being turned out by San Diego’s front office as a has been – and turned it into a great story, not only proving he was no has been, but that he deserved to be mentioned among the top tier quarterbacks in the NFL right now. And he helped a city experience it’s first Super Bowl. He’s hardworking, decent, had nothing but praise for Manning and the Colts in that Pro Bowl interview, and not only managed to not alienate the fanbase (a-la Vick in Atlanta, or George for Indy way back when) but get openly embraced by them as a good citizen and football player.

Anyone who hates that story needs to go looking for their soul. They obviously lost it somewhere.

------

"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."

Roger Ebert, Transformers review.

by E.M.H. on Feb 18, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

as one of my friends, who's a Raiders fan, pointed out

Eli and Brees have more rings than Rivers

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Feb 18, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

in a perfect world,

everyone would have more rings than Rivers. :)

Careful what you wish for... a government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take everything you have.

by teej813 on Feb 18, 2010 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I still need a ring to be better than Rivers :-(

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 19, 2010 7:11 AM EST up reply actions  

If spell-checking was a professional sport,

you’d have every ring, bro’.

;)

Careful what you wish for... a government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take everything you have.

by teej813 on Feb 19, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Yay!

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: I miss football already.

by Cassieper on Feb 19, 2010 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

heh

Careful what you wish for... a government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take everything you have.

by teej813 on Feb 19, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Peyton deserves no bashing, only praise

for what he accomplished. People tend to forget that we made it to the big game without Marvin Harrison, Anthony Gonzalez, Adam Vinatieri, Marlin Jackson, Bob Sanders, and Tyjuan Hagler, not to mention our Hall of Fame caliber former Head Coach. His new receivers were a relatively unknown rookie from BYU and completely unknown 2nd year player from a non-D1 school. Tell me one other QB that could have overcome all that nearly single handedly. Brady lost welker for one game and look what happened to the Pats. That was a paper cut in comparison to what Manning faced this season.

In the game itself, people will ignore that Freeney played in severe pain which clearly diminished his production, Powers was clearly rusty and extremely nervous, and I don’t need to remind anyone of the key drops by Garcon (completely shifted momentum), Wayne, and Hank Baskett with the biggest bonehead play in SuperBowl history. Baskett wearing that jersey is an insult to Bryan Fletcher. And also, I stomached re-watching the pick six, and in my opinion, although nearly all credit should go to Porter, Wayne clearly ran a crappy route. It looked lazy as hell. Manning threw it wear it needed to be, but wayne, whether he was tired or just had a brain fart, ran a half-assed route that gave Porter all he needed to make that play.

Anyone who blames Manning for anything at all this season is a complete fool and is just a hater. This team will be back next year, healthier, more seasoned, returning several key players, and hopefully have a re-vamped o-line. There is no reason we cannot make a return appearance. Go Colts, screw the Manning haters.

"A lot of times, Kenny, we have no idea what we're doing. But the DEFENSE doesn't know that we don't know what we're doing.....and that's next level." -Peyton Manning

by npb1985 on Feb 18, 2010 2:31 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

Great points, all.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Feb 18, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

As a Jets fan (so ignore this post lol mirite guys)

I pretty much agree with your analysis of Manning. Except for the beautiful thing, I mean come on let’s be honest Manning is a fucking ugly chud of a guy. I mean, he’s luckier than Eli in that department at least, but dang.

Also, I’ll ignore your slights against Rex Ryan. :P

by Exystence on Feb 19, 2010 11:07 AM EST reply actions  

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