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Yes, the two-point conversation call was indeed a blown call

The Saints scoring on the two-point conversion was indeed a blown call.

Does that "devalue" the Saints winning the Super Bowl? No, but it was still a pretty big blown call. The radio announcers for Westwood One were particularly upset with how the refs overturned the call on the field of an incomplete pass, which it was. Lance Moore did not have complete possession of the football as it crossed the goal line plane when the Saints were trying to take a 24-17 lead. A ref was right there, watching the catch, two feet away and made the correct call. Replay over-turned it, but the explanation for the over-turned call was very poor.

Here's the official explanation from outgoing NFL V.P. of officiating Mike Pereira (via NFL spokesman Greg Aiello):  "By rule, when a receiver with possession of the ball is in the act of going to the ground and performs a second act by reaching out to break the plane, that completes the process of the catch and the ball is dead when it breaks the plane."

But that's not what the rule says.  Here's the operative language:  "If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone.  If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete.  If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete."

Basically, Pereira is applying an interpretation based on the assumption that Moore, while falling, secured possession and pushed the ball deeper across the goal line, before losing possession.

Again, that's not what the rule says.  It says that if the player is going to the ground in the act of catching a pass, he must maintain control after he touches the ground.  Not during, but after.  In other words, he must keep the ball until he comes to rest.

In the end, it was not a major play that necessarily decided the outcome. It's just another example of how all the breaks went the Saints way.

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Wasn't sure on that either

but it turned out not to matter. If the Colts would have lost on a play like that I would be sick. However, because it wasn’t a gamebreaker its not a big deal.

Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.

by AJforAZ on Feb 8, 2010 12:04 PM EST reply actions  

Agree here...

I think they got it right. No biggie anyway.

"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado

by TRDean on Feb 8, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

It doesn't matter if Lacey kicked it out

it is the receivers job to maintain possession.

Anyone who has a problem with Joseph should stop watching Colts football. It's unfair to expect a back to replace Edge, and Addai has been excellent in all areas when he is healthy.

by DontHateAddai on Feb 8, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

That responsibility ends when he breaks the plane after establishing possession. It was a 2XP. Stop whining

by DeSean Is My Anti-Drug on Feb 8, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

^^

We’re just discussing the play. Now that the season is over there isn’t a whole lot to talk about.

Anyone who has a problem with Joseph should stop watching Colts football. It's unfair to expect a back to replace Edge, and Addai has been excellent in all areas when he is healthy.

by DontHateAddai on Feb 8, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Bitching about a call that was called correctly is whining, in my view.

by DeSean Is My Anti-Drug on Feb 8, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s relevant how? I got as much a right to call you guys out on whining as you do to whine. Deal with it.

by DeSean Is My Anti-Drug on Feb 8, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

qwitcher bitchin

The ball was in Moore’s possession, across the goal line, before being kicked out. Correct call was made, and you guys sound like a bunch of bitches for whining about it.

by Hell Toupee on Feb 8, 2010 8:01 PM EST up reply actions  

if you read through the post only 2 or 3 guys are bitching

I’d say everyone here thinks the call was made correctly.

by jegcelticfc on Feb 9, 2010 7:57 AM EST up reply actions  

No way was that a catch

And if it’s not a catch, how can it be a touchdown? That’s the part that got me. At least the pick6 made whining about this fairly irrelevant.

by beckmania on Feb 8, 2010 12:32 PM EST reply actions  

Completed Pass Rule

There is no rule stating that the player “must come to a rest”. That is something you are fabricating. I actually wanted the Colts to win so I’m not biased either. According to the rule you posted, a second act of securing the ball completes the pass. That happened. It was in the end zone. Good 2-pt conversion. The instant the ball crosses the plane or is in the endzone during a completed pass it’s play over. That happened. It was clear as can be on the video replay.

by Johnnymsu on Feb 8, 2010 12:39 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Exactly

Yes he bobbled it, but he regained firm control with the ball across the line. The play is instantly over at that point. The defender kicked the ball out of his hands after the damage had been done.

Good call.

by Tex34 on Feb 8, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

You're missing the part of the rule that says "going to the ground."

The receiver was going to the ground and so needs to “maintain control of the ball after touching the ground.” Basically, you need to come down with the ball. You can’t catch it, in air, then lose control before hitting the ground. That’s what the rule states.

Did he lose control before hitting the ground? I don’t know. Does it matter? But let’s not get confused here. The play does not end while you’re in the air. That would mean I could jump and catch the ball with the momentum taking me out of bounds but it would still be good. Does that make sense?

by ActionOxford on Feb 8, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

He was already touched down

He bobbled the ball, he regained control coming down, his arm, upper body, and right leg and knee hit the ground when he regained the Colts player then touched him.

That means he’s down by contact with the ball firmly in hand across the plane of the goalline.

It was then kicked out.

by Bunnyhat on Feb 9, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, this.

Exactly correct. Saying that the player “must come to rest” is just BBS doing his usual poor job of spinning the facts as they are. Moore was on the ground, with what seemed to be possession of the ball. There was absolutely no problem with the rule application. The only possible beef you could have is whether or not Moore had it long enough to constitute “possession” before Lacey kicked it. I’m a big Colts fan…the call was fine.

by billp73 on Feb 8, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

blown call

dream on pony boy. Call reversal was correct. Try reading the rule AGAIN

by Robertvt on Feb 8, 2010 12:47 PM EST reply actions  

Call

Can BigBlueShow be any more biased??? How about you just make it obvious that you wanted the Colts to win! You obviously did not watch that whole play! It was obvious Lance Moore regained possession of the ball after hitting the ground. The ball did not hit the ground. He regained full possession of the ball until it was kicked out of his hands. He had possession of it when he crossed the plane anyways so that should have been the end of the play anyways. It really does not matter because he had full possession once again before it was kicked out. This was one of the best called Super Bowls in awhile when it comes to the officials. It’s a shame you were too biased to see that!

by TribePride on Feb 8, 2010 12:47 PM EST reply actions  

"How about you just make it obvious that you wanted the Colts to win!"

Ya think?

Correct me if im wrong but does this website not read, “Stampede Blue – An Indianapolis Colts blog”. I think its fairly obvious that we wanted the Colts to win

by metal_militia on Feb 8, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Half the posts on this thread are profiles that were created today.

One troll. One troll with many faces.

"Between the wish and the thing the world lies waiting."
— Cormac McCarthy (All the Pretty Horses)

by Addai Another Aday on Feb 8, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

catch

I am a raving lunatic of a Colt fan, and even I can say that was a catch. Lacey kicked the ball out when Moore had clear control. Words can only go so far in describing every possible situation for a catch, but you know one when you see it. That was a freaking amazing catch-

by BenD on Feb 8, 2010 12:55 PM EST reply actions  

Come on now.....

Is it so important in football to individually call out every call you don’t like?

Especially since the play had absolutely no impact on the game? The Colts would still have to make a Touchdown afterward, they just wouldn’t be playing for a tie. It was either lose or win at that point.

It’s hard to not look bitter when doing that. It doesn’t do any favor forthe game of football either. Looks like a lot of people are not going to be satisfied until a team of video booth referees, lawyers and accountants review every play in a football game. It’ll take 8 hours to finish a game. Football is teetering on the edge of becoming boring now, with the endless delays. I’ll bet at that point, instead of crying about the refs, every time a call goes against whoever you are rooting for, you’ll want the rules changed. We saw it this season when the Viking fans started complaining that the sudden death playoff is so terrible. They want the rule changed so that Farve gets to go back out again.

Anyhow, as I read the play, he had it, in his hands when crossing the goal line, then bobbled it after he hit the ground. But in the end, it made no difference, Saints would have beat the Colts by 2 less points.

by emmjay on Feb 8, 2010 1:03 PM EST reply actions  

Saints Troll here

The fact that colts fans here on the whole are defending the catch speaks very highly of your fan base. You guys have a class organization, and I pull for you all year except when we play you.

Good luck next year.

by Zandor435 on Feb 8, 2010 1:05 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks.

You’re too classy to be a troll.

"Between the wish and the thing the world lies waiting."
— Cormac McCarthy (All the Pretty Horses)

by Addai Another Aday on Feb 8, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

not trollish at all

thanks for the comment

I was actually confused on the conversion – sure looked good to me, and I was surprised that the commentators and PFT were questioning it.

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Feb 8, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks for the opinion some don't agree with the call but we do know it didn't decide the game and it is just something to talk about

thanks for not trolling

Draft Mocker/ Co-Leader of yearly 7 round live mock draft at MtD
previously known as (ANGELSFAITH)

by TheAngelsColts on Feb 8, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I've met many trolls in my life and you sir (or madam) are no troll.

Hey, we lost. What else are we going to discuss?

Visit us often. We would love trolls like you! And congrats on the Super Bowl.

by diagenesis on Feb 8, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Another Who Dat

I echo these thoughts. It was a clean, well-played game throughout. Neither team dominated and it was decided by a couple of plays the Saints made that the Colts didn’t. The Colt fanbase is far more pleasant to deal with than the Viking base.

by jpspear on Feb 8, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Really??? He had possesion and the ball crossed the plane

They got the call right

Bad pick Peyton "Regular Season" Manning!!!

by Athletic on Feb 8, 2010 1:06 PM EST reply actions  

That was a catch.

He had the ball, bobbled it and regained control across the goal line all BEFORE Lacey kicked the ball out of his hands.

by Richard Hill on Feb 8, 2010 1:06 PM EST reply actions  

The bad call of the game

Was the playcalling, not trying to score with 2 minutes left in the half, and our kick return teams being a joke every year. Next year is gonna be great, but we just lost. Do I think the world and the NFL wanted the Saints to win? Yea, but, if we had played any sort of good outside of Joseph Addai, it wouldn’t have mattered.

by Bippal on Feb 8, 2010 1:13 PM EST reply actions  

+1

Bad pick Peyton "Regular Season" Manning!!!

by Athletic on Feb 8, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

happy for Addai

I am a huge LSU fan in addition to the Saints, so I am glad to see Addai do well. He really put a move on Sharper at one point.

by Zandor435 on Feb 8, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

It was a catch. He regained control while on the ground and the ball broke the plane.

by MikeA13 on Feb 8, 2010 1:21 PM EST reply actions  

Are you frekin kidding me?!?! Did we not watch the same game? The guy had complete control of the ball! Hell, he even rolled on his back,upside down with the ball breaking the plane and the only reason he lost control is b/c the defender knocked it out of his hands. The saints get all the way to the superbowl and still can’t get their props.I guess they have to do it again next year for people to stop saying" Are the New Orleans Saints for real?"

by Aaron H on Feb 8, 2010 1:23 PM EST reply actions  

Probably

Yeah, Aaron, they probably will. There will be some detractors even then. Fannish football, the type preached by ESPN and some others has their stars, and Drew Brees and the Saints aren’t on that list. The Colts with Manning just barely make it onto that list. Want proof? The Steelers, who’ve won more SB’s than anyone, are hardly mentioned, yet Dallas, despite only winning one playoff game since forever, are the subject of half their material. They even crowned them “the team to beat in the playoffs” this year.

ESPN follows:

Dallas Cowboys
The Patriots
Brett Favre and whatever team he’s playing on for the moment
Whoever the controversial player of the moment is, like TO or Michael Vick.

They kind of reluctantly followed Manning due to his great abilities, but you could see that the wind was out of their sails, they soooo much wanted a Dallas/Pats setup this year – probably would have been promoted as the game of the Gods or something like that.

So yup, the Saint’s will need maybe 8 more super bowl wins to get any “serious” cred. Doesn’t matter, they won, and they won well.

It was a very good game. Both teams played well. Gave us good entertainment, So Congrats both Colts and Saints

by emmjay on Feb 8, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Big Ben has 2 Rings and he still doesnt get cred. Brees just won his first one and he is already elite

by PCISteeler on Feb 8, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

???ok

yeah not to the media

by PCISteeler on Feb 8, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

you guys will be known as the Atlanta Braves of football then

the playoff runs you guys have but only 1 ring to show for it. It sucks to lose a Super Bowl. You guys had a hell of a year.

by PCISteeler on Feb 8, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh Yeah?

Tell that to Terry Bradshaw. Rings DO define quarterbacks. Dan Marino is no doubt a hall of fame QB. But he NEVER won a Super Bowl. There’s no trophy or points for 2nd place. If you win a Super Bowl, it means you have accomplished the goal every successful NFL team sets for itself at the beginning of the season: Win the Super Bowl.

by dougalmac on Feb 8, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry

but Marino is a much better QB than Bradshaw.

by ActionOxford on Feb 8, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

No Way Jose!

He ain’t got the rings. Terry does. Case closed!

by dougalmac on Feb 8, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope.

Marino way better. Rings were for the Steel Curtain. Case closed.

by ActionOxford on Feb 8, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Geraniums in your craniums.

Success is defined by winning the Super Bowl. Terry (and ALL the Steelers on those teams share in that success. Marino had ONE shot and couldn’t cut it. Bradshaw was part of team that won 4 SB’s in ^ years. You clowns are full of it!

by dougalmac on Feb 8, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Jumping to conclusions

I never said Bradshaw was the best-YOU put those words into my mouth. I said Bradshaw was the most successful. Learn to use logic. 4 Super bowl rings in 6 years. Figure it out.

by dougalmac on Feb 8, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I said Marino was better.

You have now stated Bradshaw was “more successful.” Bradshaw was more successful, but he was not better than Marino in skills.

My first post was “Marino is a much better QB than Bradshaw.” Where did I write more successful? I didn’t.

by ActionOxford on Feb 8, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Ignore that total idiot.

That is unbelievable. I doubt anyone could truly believe that drivel. Just trolling.

by coltsfanawalt on Feb 8, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

statwise

Then Tim Tebow should be number 1 on the draft. Someone should go and sign Graham Harrell

by PCISteeler on Feb 8, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

i get your point and agree, but one thing...

Ben isn’t near the qb that Brees is. Ben is a solid qb, but he hasn’t demonstrated the consistency that Brees has w/ being able to thread the needle.

But again, the Steelers are awesome, and I get your overall point of ESPN’s favortism.

by Zandor435 on Feb 8, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

what.. consistency

what are you looking for in consistency. Ben won 2 Superbowl in 6 years. Brees has only one. ESPN is looking for a good story so lets give it to Brees who got shoved out of San Diego. They had Rivers so i really cant blame them. Brees went to the Saints made the NFC championship once. A couple of lame seasons went by and now they are the Champs. Sounds a bit like Ben but with Ben having more Super Bowls.

by PCISteeler on Feb 8, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Silly Colts Fans...

Don’t you realize the Steelers have the best players in the NFL at EVERY position???Clearly, Big Ben is the Best QB, Hines Ward is the best WR, Harrison is the best LB, Polamalu is the best S, and the reserves on the Steelers would start for any other team in the NFL. I don’t even know why the Steelers play games during the regular season, they’re an automatic bid to the super bowl every year!

Why doesn’t anyone outside of Pittsburgh realize this???

by lobsterfest on Feb 8, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

As a Saints fan, I have to give you guys credit in your opinions about this catch

it’s classier to be honest about you all thinking it was a correct reversal than whining about everything like the Vikings fans did. Moore made a great, acrobatic catch and twist/roll to get in the end zone. I am glad they reviewed it and were able to come to a conclusion.

"I think we agree, the past is over" - George W Bush
"The greatest enemy of knowlege is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking

by Philinwood on Feb 8, 2010 1:30 PM EST reply actions  

it sucks really bad

since the colts only lost by 2 points…oh wait.

by dudebro on Feb 8, 2010 1:35 PM EST reply actions  

LOL….2 touchdowns !

by Aaron H on Feb 8, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Yet another reason Mike Florio sucks at life

The rule just says that he must maintain possession after touching the ground. The strictest interpretation of that would be to say that the receiver only needs to have possession the point and moment his body contacts the ground, that of which Lance Moore did. The only timeframe the rule gives is the word “after he touches the ground”. Not “after he touches the ground and has come to a complete stop” or not “after he touches the ground and his momentum has ceased”. Just “after he touches the ground”. Define the word after! Florio defines it as a “complete rest”. The rule does not say “complete rest”. Florio pulled that part out of his ass!

Now during the game, Phil Simms argued that because Moore had it, lost it, got it back across the goal line with possession, and then lost it, that it should count. While it may seem like a liberal interpretation at first, read the last 2 sentences again and you’ll see that Simms was arguing the rule literally.

“If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.”

Did Moore not have it, lose it, and then have it? If you are going by the rule by the books, the point at which he regained the possession after he lost it, it is a complete pass. And where was the ball after at the point of Lance Moore regaining possession? Over the goal line. Was there a “2nd act” by Moore needed to affirm possession, that while not in the rule Florio quoted, as been discussed a lot last night and this morning? Yes. Moore, with complete possession, stretched the ball over the goalline.

If you go by that rule word for word in assessing it on this 2-point try, like Florio claims he is doing in his criticism, it’s a good conversion!

My personal opinion is that the rule should say the second you have complete possession of the football with the football over the pylon and in the endzone, it’s a touchdown/good 2-point conversion, but thus is the way with the NFL and vague rules.

Good game Colts. Congrats to the Saints. The Eagles are going to take it all next year!*

  • - wishful thinking

Proudly supporting a Flyers team with "no honor".

by JFein on Feb 8, 2010 1:35 PM EST reply actions  

The dot at the end should be an asterisk

noting that my claim the Eagles are going to take it all next year is wishful thinking. Andy Reid sucks.

Stupid SB Nation formatting.

Proudly supporting a Flyers team with "no honor".

by JFein on Feb 8, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

2 Point Catch

According to your own argument, the rule states, “If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.” This is what happened. Once across the plain of the goal line with the re-control of the pass it is complete. It’s all good! Geaux Saints!

by drbillcox on Feb 8, 2010 1:37 PM EST reply actions  

Help me clear this up,

because I was wondering last night: If the same thing happens in the back of the endzone, then the receiver has to maintain possession all the way to the ground. But in the case of the play last night, the ball is dead once it breaks the plane? That seems terribly inconsistent considering a catch in the back of the endzone has broken the plane as well.

by RussT on Feb 8, 2010 1:50 PM EST reply actions  

the writer contradicted himself

“If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.”

lance moore did that. he lost control of the ball, but he regained it before it hit the ground and still broke the plane. the colts DB kicked it out of his hand. 2 pt was good. saints won. deal with it.

by e_rockx on Feb 8, 2010 2:05 PM EST reply actions  

The "writer"

is the official NFL rule.

Seems clear to me.

Catch, lose control, ball hits ground = incomplete
catch, lose control, regain control then hit ground = complete.

by ActionOxford on Feb 8, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

2 point coversion was good

Not a fan of either team, but looked clear to me that he had control of the ball and was stretching across the goal line. The Saints won by 14 points and were the luckier, healthier and outright better team on that day.

I’m much more skeptical of the “catch” at the end of the NFC title game. Looked like he trapped it. Saints were super lucky to even be in the superbowl, the Vikings had everything go wrong that could(watched that game with a Vikings fan… it was HILARIOUS)… but hey, congrats Saints.

by YourHero on Feb 8, 2010 2:19 PM EST reply actions  

2 point play

yo people it doesnt even matter if it was good or not. actually forget that play because if you took 2 points off the saints score it would be 29-17 and they still win!

by Patti S on Feb 8, 2010 2:22 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah, we know that.

We acknowledge it wouldn’t have changed the outcome, but no harm in discussing it. And I disagree that it wasn’t good. It looked good to me from the start.

by diagenesis on Feb 8, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

saints dont make playoffs next year

and texans win the AFC south

ill take 1 out of 2

"Its like a silk bag filled with puppy ears"

by Allen-OU on Feb 8, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

re: Ya' just gotta live with it.

I understand where this guy is coming from. You invest your personal emotion and energy in your favorite team. They make it to the Super Bowl. They blow it. The conscious mind has to make sense of an outcome that your heart just can’t accept. So you start dissecting this and that about the game. But in the end, you gotta face facts: The Saints played better than the Colts. And the Colts still could have won the game, 2 point conversion notwithstanding. The visual evidence is consistent with the interpretation of the rule after review. The Colts blew a field goal and then Manning threw an INT that was returned for a touchdown. Saints win. Case closed. QED.

by dougalmac on Feb 8, 2010 2:35 PM EST reply actions  

THAT WAS NOT A BLOWN CALL

he clearly had possesion and the ball was over the goal line. ANYONE could clearly see that.

i was hoping you guys would win because down here in houston there are TONS of saints bandwagoners and i want to run them all over.

at least BUSH was outshined by and undrafted FA and even addai played way better.

i think the atlanta braves comparison is not a good one, but how do you throw that pick peyton ???

and i think it is safe to say that WAYNE is not even close to ANDRE JOHNSON in the reciever dept. dude quit……IN THE SUPERBOWL…..not good

"Its like a silk bag filled with puppy ears"

by Allen-OU on Feb 8, 2010 2:37 PM EST reply actions  

two great teams

 As a fan of football I want too tell y’all fellas something,Yesterdays game was truly one of the best Superbowl’s I have ever had the pleasure of watching, Two great Teams, with great coaches, and great players, Now I am a Lifelong Cowboys fan, and have saw some great players play this game. The call in question here IMO was called right by the booth,And I am glad it really had no bearing on the outcome of the game, To all you Colts Fan I say congrats on Another Great season. And to you Saints fans I say Job well Done!!!!

by Wendell L on Feb 8, 2010 2:41 PM EST reply actions  

"It's just another example of how all the breaks went the Saints way"

Really? All the breaks went the Saints way?

Replay, in this instance prevailed, as it does with almost every other single time it has to be used. It’s to get the calls right. If the evidence witnessed by the lead zebra was conclusive, the call on the field is confirmed.

Now, back to all the breaks going the Saints way… ummm, what? I assume you want to bitch and moan about the referees actually letting football players play football and only calling 8 penalties throughout the entire game. As a fan of neither team (although my username will probably have you thinking quite the opposite, Chiefs fan though), I thought the game was well called by the refs.

So full of sh*t that toilet bowls have to wipe.

by IISaiNtII on Feb 8, 2010 2:42 PM EST reply actions  

indeed

well called game by the refs. Saints won fair and square.. Season over and bring on the draft madness

by PCISteeler on Feb 8, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Who Dat!

The call was correct….why attempt to “tarnish” the Saints victory.?….even the Colts conceded that the call was correct. New Orleans simply kicked the Colts butt to become Superbowl/World champions. New Orleans was too clever for the “way too cocky” Colts.
The saints proved all the “haters” wrong!

by Uxobi on Feb 8, 2010 2:44 PM EST reply actions  

same saint team that needed 8 fumbles to squeak by the vikes

they got lucky on the onside kick.

not too clever just extremely lucky

but lucky is good.

your obviously a bandwagoner with no actual ties so enjoy your pathetic little self

"Its like a silk bag filled with puppy ears"

by Allen-OU on Feb 8, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Looked like a good catch to me.

I chose water over wine... Jars of formaldehyde... think of all the things I missed... Why'd you make me a scientist?

by Ninjames on Feb 8, 2010 2:54 PM EST reply actions  

Sour Grapes

It was the right call. And the Refs explained it perfectly, unless you happen to be someone who doesn’t WANT to understand. The guy hit the ground while the ball was still in the air, and regained possession with the ball in the endzone.

by Jadib on Feb 8, 2010 2:54 PM EST reply actions  

That wasn't the explanation, though.

Their determinative factor was that he stretched the ball while in air. The rule doesn’t say anything like that.

Looked good to me too, but their explanation kinda sucks. They should just say he regained possession and hit the ground then Lacey knocked it loose.

by ActionOxford on Feb 8, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed*

not the best explanation but the right call

"Its like a silk bag filled with puppy ears"

by Allen-OU on Feb 8, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

great catch

that had to be one of the best catches ive ever seen.. Replay ruling was excellent.. I am a Patriots fan first, then an avid football fan. I am happy the saints won. They were the best team all year, they are the best team now, they will be the best team until 2010 reg season thursday night kickoff. Typical colts fans crying about calls.. You should be crying about Peyton’s moronic pass to wayne that went for a pick 6. Im sure your ownership will get with the NFL Comm and have some more rules changed like he did with the 5 yard chuck rule. Thats right sports fans, it was the colts who cried about recievers being hit leaving the line of scrimmage, not the Vikings. The “colts”, “fans”, “owners”, “manning”, all cry babies… who was calling the plays for them, Addai averaged 13 ypc in the 1st half, got 5 carries in the second.. LOL.. LOL.. Manning choking like usual makes me happy.

by plaistow party group on Feb 8, 2010 3:14 PM EST reply actions  

Deion Sanders, and people like him are entitled to there opinions...

I don’t think people are talking as much about Peyton’s delivery as they are talking more about the heads up play that Porter made. There was absolutely nothing
wrong with the read and delivery from Manning. Potter made a great heads up read on the throw
and timed it perfect. Wayne should have stepped forward towards the throw. That
would have blocked Porter out. But I don’t think Wayne even new that Porter was
that close behind him.
Ive seen receivers standing on the 1st down mark in tight coverages and forced to
step into a throw and make a catch and not make the first down for that exact reason!
But, like Ive said… I don’t think Reggie new that Porter was that close.

TEXAN FAN…
Respecter of the Colts fans!

  

by bluezzball_sports on Feb 8, 2010 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

BBS - you're SO wrong buddy....so wrong.

First off let me preface this with I am a Colts fan…a huuuuge Colts fan. I am incredibly bitter today but I cannot let something like this just slide by BBS. I call it as I see it.

FIRST SOME NFL RULES FOR YOU***

Article 1
It is a touchdown (3-38):
(a) when a runner advances from the field of play and the ball touches the opponents’ goal line (plane); or
(b) while inbounds any player catches or recovers a loose ball (3-2-3) on or behind the opponents’ goal line.
SUPPLEMENTAL NOTES
(1) The ball is automatically dead at the instant of legal player possession on, above, or behind the opponents’ goal line.
(2) The Referee may award a touchdown when a palpably unfair act deprives the offended team of one.
(3) For a foul after a touchdown (between downs), see 3-11-2-a and 14-5.

Article 7
A player is in possession when he is in firm grip and control of the ball inbounds
(See 3-2-3).
To gain possession of a loose ball (3-2-3) that has been caught, intercepted, or recovered, a player must have complete control of the ball and have both feet completely on the ground inbounds or any other part of his body, other than his hands, on the ground inbounds.
If the player loses the ball while simultaneously touching both feet or any other part of his body to the ground or if there is any doubt that the acts were simultaneous, there is no possession. This rule applies in the field of play and in the end zone.

The terms catch, intercept, recover, advance, and fumble denote player possession (as distinguished from touching or muffing). A catch is made when a player inbounds secures possession of a pass, kick, or fumble in flight (See 3-20; 8-1-7-S.N. 5).
Note: It is a catch if in the process of attempting to catch the ball, a player secures control of the ball prior to the ball touching the ground and that control is maintained after the ball has touched the ground.

THE BREAKDOWN***

before you read this watch the replay here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV0l9VqG1NM
The replay you want to watch starts at 1:03 and at 1:08 – 1:09 you see his hip/thigh/knee hit before his arm/elbow.

If you watch the replay Moore catches the ball before the goal line, rotates his body and pushes the ball across the plane of the goal line then his knee hits the ground. The bobble didn’t come until his arm hit the ground after his knee.

Since the ball had crossed the goal line first the play would have been called dead the moment of legal player possession (which even his arm hitting causing the bobble would rule him down and being in the endzone the play is stopped immediatly) which happened the moment Moore’s non foot body part hit the ground. The catch was a brilliant catch and a display of great athleticism.

The explanation we received from the head ref on the field was dumb.

What is even dumber is Mike Pereira’s explanation he gave us. Mike this isn’t NFL pre 2007 – the absolute ridiculous "football move" rule has been thrown out. A catch is not completed when a receiver stretches out his arms.

That is all.

by jegcelticfc on Feb 8, 2010 3:28 PM EST reply actions  

The call was right.

This is not the time for this. It just seems whiny. Unless this is all about site hits again….

by coltsfanawalt on Feb 8, 2010 3:37 PM EST reply actions  

It was clearly right.

They got the conversion fair and square. The three big momentum breakers and game changers were clearly the three and out running plays at the end of the first half (which led to a 3 point score prior to half for the Saints), the missed catch by Garcon (which would have been a huge gain), and the onside kick recovery. Those three things led to the loss in my opinion. And, even with those three things happening, the Colts were still in the game until Manning’s pick. I’m sad for the Colts players. But, if there is any team I’d like to see get a championship (which wasn’t the Colts), my pick would be the Saints.

by Ayrshire on Feb 8, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

momentum

This may have been the call that changed the momentum of the game, it sure changed the outlook of the people I was watching the game with. “Our” Saints never GET the call. This call may be debated for a long time….but when it’s all said and done….“our” boys won the game. We won with dignity. There plane should be on the ground now….let the real celebrating begin. There’s still time come celebrate with us…..even if you were rooting for our native son Peyton Manning. It was great to see us win….but it’s kind of sad that we had to beat one of our own to do it……everybody should come celebrate with us.

by Wendys on Feb 8, 2010 3:58 PM EST reply actions  

Not a blown call at all

Moore juggled the ball, but it never touched the ground. He had posession of the ball with it clearly across the line in the end zone. The ball was jarred loose by Lacey, but they play was already over at that point. Had it not been in the EZ, then yes, it would have been incomplete.

Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever.
Napoleon Bonaparte

Stampede Blue's Resident Steelers Fan

Oneil Cousins is the Steelers' best Offensive Lineman
Frank Walker is their best CB.

by LV Steelers Fan on Feb 8, 2010 4:00 PM EST reply actions  

Actually it would’ve been complete and then a fumble out of bounds had it not been in the end zone.

by RWILLY on Feb 8, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Upon further review, you are correct

Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever.
Napoleon Bonaparte

Stampede Blue's Resident Steelers Fan

Oneil Cousins is the Steelers' best Offensive Lineman
Frank Walker is their best CB.

by LV Steelers Fan on Feb 9, 2010 12:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Didn't see this one coming...

After impressive defeats over good defensive teams in Baltimore and New York, I never thought that it would be the offense of the Colts that would let the team down.

Tough break!

by lobsterfest on Feb 8, 2010 4:02 PM EST reply actions  

It wasn't just the offense.

The offense played pretty Colt-like for much of the game. The defensive backs inability to defend Brees was a big factor, as well as the defense’s inability to get pressure Brees very much. Also, special teams (Baskett/Simpson) were a major factor. And, last, but not least, the coaching was a problem. Offense was the best area of the four.

by Ayrshire on Feb 8, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

That was the right call...!

As soon as a player has control of the ball and it breaks the plane of the goal line, the ball is dead and it is a touchdown. That rule applies to youth, high school, college, and pro ball at any level. I don’t know where the hell some of you guys come off thinking you know the rules when you don’t. As a licensed football official of 15+ years, it astounds me how many of you clowns get on a public forum and bash officials when you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Replay did exactly what is was put in to do…get the right call. Which it did.

This article makes you look like a clown….that’s why you’re not writing for SI or Sporting News.

Go write about something you know about….

by Sturno on Feb 8, 2010 4:04 PM EST reply actions  

Really??

For some reason you think that even though you you used the word “conversation” in your TITLE when the term is clearly “conversion” that people will still listen to you. Not this chick. You need to grown up and get your facts straight.

by Cajun Queen on Feb 8, 2010 4:06 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Can't believe I missed that.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: Even though the Colts lost, it was a good season. Random facts will resume next week when I recover.

by Cassieper on Feb 14, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Blown Call?

Firstly just let me say that I am not a supporter of either team, and as a visitor to your shores, the only reason for watching the game was that my wife,a Vikings supporter, insisted that we watch the game as she was hoping for some divine retribution for the Saints who had killed the dream of her beloved Vikings appearing in the SB. So I do not have any particular biase towards either team.There seems to be a lot of debate as to the validity of the 2 point conversion and the overriding sentiment seems to be that it did not matter as the winning margin was some 14 points anyway. The point, I believe, is that had the original on field decision stood, the whole dynamic of the following minutes would have changed, not saying that the outcome would have been any different, but we will never know. This would explain why a number of Colts fans are upset with the decision. As an aside to this, I cannot think of any team sport where the result is so dependant on the performance of one team member, namely the QB, it seems to me that no matter how well the rest of the team play. if your QB is having a nightmare then you are in trouble as aptly shown by The Saints, who have a lot to be thankful for for two monumental errors by the opposing teams QB in the two games I watched.

by notafootballfan on Feb 8, 2010 4:32 PM EST reply actions  

They made the right call. To think otherwise is showing your complete bias as Colts fans (I understand taking the loss is hard). He regained control of the ball and as Phil Simms explained the rule, that means it is a completion. Plus, it was kicked out, completion.

ps They won by a lot more than 2 points

by gimpsta7 on Feb 8, 2010 5:26 PM EST reply actions  

It was not a blown call

I had a good look at the replay and I knew the call would have to be changed. The player had possession when he hit the ground so it was a completed catch. The ball was hit out of his possession after he was down but it was the same as when a Colts player spilled it on landing. He was ruled downed by contact. Since it was a completed catch the fact that while falling the player reached out and broke theplane with the ball had to be considered even though he landed outside of the endzone.

by RoderickT on Feb 8, 2010 6:09 PM EST reply actions  

No way it was a blown call

He had clear possession after he bobbled the ball. Once it crosses the line and it is securely your hands, it is a score.

You have to hate losing more than you love winning.

by Mr MaLoR on Feb 8, 2010 6:14 PM EST reply actions  

Sorry, but you are showing blue blindness. I saw the play as a football fan, not a particular fan of either team, and immediately said “challenge that”. The explanation of the call was not particularly good, but the call was 100% correct.

First, you need to understand, that the rulebook is not the bible. It is the basic rule, not the pages and pages of directives and clarifications that refine those rules. Just because you quoting to a rule does not contain the exact phrasing, does not mean that an addendum does not. Even if that is not the case, common sense is used to expand. The second move wording goes with the wording that has often been used before, “a football move”, do demonstrate control.

Next, the actual act of plunging the ball forward, which is the move they sighted as demonstrating control, is debatable. I personally did not think he demonstrated enough control to overturn the on-field on that. If on-field called it control, I could not over-rule the other way either. That is opinion though. They called that adequate. Had they not called that adequate, they still would not have hesitated to call the play a completion because after the bobble the regained the ball and showed clear control, over the line, for a catch. The ball was then kicked out. Play was already over. You cannot kick the ball out of a player’s hand, even by accident. You cannot strip the ball from a player who is already on the ground, using your foot or any other part of your body. And you cannot fumble after the ball crosses the plane. The overturn was a no-brainer, and thus the Colts did not refute the call, only a few fans are.

If it is worth doing, it is worth doing wrong.

by Gooseman on Feb 8, 2010 6:16 PM EST reply actions  

The overturning of the call was a perfect example of this poorly officiated game. Earlier in the game the Colts receiver with number 17 catches a pass and is driven out of bounds. The Saints player tries to strip him and when they are out of bounds he punches him in the stomach. Dwight Clark was clearly hit early on a pass that should have been pass interference. The constant holding by Saints tackles against the defensive pass rush. On the play Garcon is called for pass interference, you can see on replay he was clearly held by the defensive player. Yeah, that is his straight arm keeping Garcon away from the ball. Not to mention the Indianapolis player that was clearly kicked in the helmet after the end of a play.

The reason I mention this is the officiating clearly affected the game’s outcome. I cannot remember the last professional football game I have seen where offensive holding or defensive holding was not called at least once in the game. Two unsportsman like calls on both team and a couple of illegal procedures against Indianapolis.

I am not a Colt fan, however, I expect the refs to call the best game possible. They failed to do so.

by Larry575 on Feb 8, 2010 6:40 PM EST reply actions  

“If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.”

Where is the NFL operative language for “the Ball Breaking the Plane?” because that is the issue, NOT the completion of a pass as it is said above. But, indeed, the pass was complete according to the operative language exhibited above because the receiver maintained possession and the “ball” never touched the ground before the plane was broken.

by LToya on Feb 8, 2010 7:02 PM EST reply actions  

A good group conversion about the 2-pt conversation

 The 2-pt conversation play was gutsy. Do you try to make the conversation by running or passing? Is that called a “conversation in passing”?

Nice to see so many people joining this conversion. Always a positive thing when people are converting. My family enjoys a good conversion nearly every day.

I am certainly glad we had this conversion.

by goode speler on Feb 8, 2010 7:22 PM EST reply actions  

Play that decided game

When Manning threw the interception, it was over. This 2pt conversion had nothing to do with the momentum of the game. Good overturn by the ref.

by R1c3H45WH173 on Feb 8, 2010 7:30 PM EST reply actions  

Some just can't quite reach those straws...

It was a good call. He got possession after he hit the ground and while the ball was across the line. It was then kicked out of his hand.

by Paydirt on Feb 8, 2010 7:43 PM EST reply actions  

The conversion was good . The only thing blown was Peyton walking off the feild without a nod , a handshake or anything, just pouting like the big baby he is.

by bushes are thieves on Feb 8, 2010 7:59 PM EST reply actions  

Whether the call was right or not...

It would be nice if the NFL would write the rules so that it isn’t open ended like this. When a rule leaves anything open to objective interpretation, then you will get people that want to take it to the extreme, and that’s what Mike Florio does here.

Florio blasts Periera because his explanation “isn’t what the rule says.” But when Florio says the receiver “must keep the ball until he comes to rest” for the pass to be complete, that isn’t what the rule says either. Florio’s interpretation of the rule is on one extreme of the spectrum of how it can be viewed. The truth is that it was a judgment call. Any judgment call is going to leave someone feeling robbed.

I am a Saints fan, and am in no way impartial in this conversation, so I’ll just say that I’ll be the first to join you if you want to say that the NFL needs to clarify its rules. I will not however join you in saying it was a bad call.

"I want to hand this trophy to the MVP of the Super Bowl -- and the MVP of the entire league.''
-- Saints coach Sean Payton, handing the Vince Lombardi Trophy to Drew Brees after Super Bowl 44.

by VAsaintsfan on Feb 8, 2010 8:41 PM EST reply actions  

omg……… the saints deserved to win!! they played a much better game. I am sure Manning was too busy crying in the locker room to admit he was outplayed.

The All-America Football Conference was created in June of 1944 to compete against the NFL. Even though the league outdrew the NFL in attendance, the continuing dominance of the Cleveland Browns led to the league's downfall.

by J. W. on Feb 8, 2010 8:44 PM EST reply actions  

Not a Blown Call

      I had no preference as to which team won the game . But anyone with any athletic knowledge that viewed the replay of the 2 point conversion would come to the same conclusion. It was a catch .

by Tomms53 on Feb 8, 2010 9:16 PM EST reply actions  

yes-the analysis by the author was blown. IT WAS A CATCH

Who writes this stuff? Perhaps the NFL didn’t quote the rule correctly, but it was indeed a catch. Doesn’t matter that it was bobbled if the player regains control before it touched the ground. It was obvious to anyone with even decent vision he had control of it. It only came loose after it was kicked out of his hand and by then the play was over. Sounds like sour grapes from an unhappy Colts fan.

Disclaimer: Not a Saints or Colts fan, but a non-bias football fan.

by RWILLY on Feb 8, 2010 10:17 PM EST reply actions  

Man BBS

you really opened this post up to all the post game trolls didn’t you? This could work in your favor…just ban them all at once…I see what you did here

So, apparently "Adult Language" isn't allowed in sig lines, so I suppose my new sig will be clean and "G" rated so I can openly discuss football with other blogs. Shame on me for not understanding!

by coltsfan723 on Feb 9, 2010 12:35 AM EST reply actions  

2 POINT TRY WAS GOOD!

The 2 point try was ruled good…Get over it…Life goes on…Even “IF” it was called an incomplete pass…The Saints still won… So here is what I have to say to all the sore-losing colts fans…WHO DAT!!!!!

by SAINTSPACKERS FAN! on Feb 9, 2010 1:37 AM EST reply actions  

Manning won

A son lost, the patriarch father won even if it was a bittersweet feeling. The saints in all their glory filled season has to reckon that Archie Manning is THE qb the saints had wasted by not giving him players that could have made the saints taste the superbowl way earlier than forty plus years of being aints. The saints organization should, I hope, award Archie Manning in a way they deem appropriate.

Gotta feel for Archie. His son losses, yet the team that he played his heart for and all the work his foundation has helped New Orleans has to count for something.

Im a steeler fanatic, but the true saints fan base would know more than I would about this and I truly hope that the saints organization pay him his due respect.

As a steeler fanatic. I was happy that the steeler organization gave due respect to Rod Woodson during the first game of this season when the steelers played the titans.

Every steeler fan knows that Rod played for the ravens and won a superbowl. He ended his career with the raiders but the steelers only had love for Rod and his services rendered.

Would be nice that the saints do the same in their own respect with Archie Manning.

Congrats to the saints on their championship season.

by pistonsteelers on Feb 9, 2010 6:34 AM EST reply actions  

Reggie Wayne sucked!!

I honestly think Reggie played a part and threw the game for the Saints to win. I believe my points are valid…he’s a Louisiana native and if he had a knee problem, I didn’t see him wearing a knee brace to try and stablize it as he came out of his routes. He ran a route like a rookie when Peyton got intercepted and he acted like a scared bytch azz ROOKIE, AGAIN, when he ran that route across the middle, closed his and dropped a touchdown pass. At least he could have made up for his lack of running a crisp route by catching the damn ball. Maybe somebody from New Orleans threatened to put a price on his relative’s heads that remain in the Louisiana area??

What the hell is up with Colts veteran receivers in big games? These 6ft receivers act scary. Marvin Harrison also played like a scary bytch back in Jan. 2008. He was dropping passes, fumbled his first catch after being out 3 months and look as if he was scared to take a hit. I think the Colts should purse Vincent Jackson from San Diego….he’s tall, fast, strong and can take a fvcking hit in big games!!!!!!!!!!!!

by coltscantbestopped on Feb 9, 2010 1:52 PM EST reply actions  

OK, granted I’m probably hyper-sensitive because of all the idiotic bull the Viqueen fans spewed after their game and the idiotic misinterpretation he spewed about GW’s words even after he printed the correct wording… but seriously guys, Florio is an idiot. I mean, once again he prints the exact words to prove he’s full of bull crap, and then tries to say something else.

So lets review those words, shall we? And I’ll highlight the key words to make it blatantly clear for all.

If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

Unfortunately for Florio, those highlighted words alone are enough to prove that the reversal was correct.

Sad thing is, he would have had a point if he’d pointed out the honest truth that the 2pt conversion was good but that the explanation was crap. Because that would have been a legitimate story. Pierra must either be getting senile or just losing his mind/memory because the explanation was at the very least rather questionable. Now had Pierra pointed out that having possession BEFORE entering the end zone and then losing possession afterwards makes a difference in the call, then his explanation might have held water. As it was, it was just worthless hot air.

by FriarBob on Feb 9, 2010 10:19 PM EST reply actions  

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