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Around SBN: Bracketology 2012: Duke Finally Steps Up To The No. 1 Line

OK, now it's your turn: Grade the Colts 2010 NFL Draft

I gave this draft crop a "B."

Mel Kiper Jr.: "C"

Rick Gosselin: "C"

Scout.com: "C-"

What's your grade? Keep in mind that, for many people, draft grades are all about how people perceive the picks based on what limited information they know. It's a way to gauge interest and excitement going into the 2010 season. You might recall that, after the 2007 Draft, I wrote this:

This was a masterful draft by Polian, and puts the Colts in the position they want to be in: Recharged and ready to repeat with fresh bodies and hungry football players.

Now, three years later, Anthony Gonzalez has not lived up to expectations, and likely has lost his starting job to Pierre Garcon, a 6th rounder from Mount Union in 2008. Tony Ugoh was a complete bust, as were third rounders Quinn Pitcock (out of football) and Dante Hughes (out of football). Roy Hall has done nothing but be injured, and Michael Coe's career seems to have been cut short by a knee injury.

Again, by every objective measurement we know, the 2007 Draft was an utter failure. Yet, when it first happened, the draft grades were positive across the board. I remember being very excited about that draft. Now, I shake my head at it. Polian passed up on guys like Paul Posluszny, LaMarr Woodley, Le'Ron McClain, and Jay Alford. Does this mean Polian sucks and he should be fired? NO! What, do you think I'm THAT crazy?

I'm just pointing out that no one is perfect going into the draft, and even the best can make stupid decisions on draft day.

With that, grade away. Be harsh. Be honest. Don't ever think that your opinion is "meaningless" if it conflicts with the great Bill Polian, who was responsible for the horror show that was the 2007 Draft as well as the seemingly brilliant 2009 Draft, which featured Austin Collie, Jerraud Powers, and Pat McAfee.

Poll
Grade the Colts 2010 NFL Draft
A+
35 votes
A
37 votes
A-
77 votes
B+
171 votes
B
228 votes
B-
188 votes
C+
68 votes
C
34 votes
C-
24 votes
D
21 votes
F
23 votes

906 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 137 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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It's not all "Gentleman's C's" out there in mainstream media land

MSNBC, for example, gave Indy an A-.

------

"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."

Roger Ebert, Transformers review.

by E.M.H. on Apr 27, 2010 12:05 PM EDT reply actions  

What prevented us from winning the Super Bowl?

1) Lack of pass rush. Check, Jerry Hughes appears to be a perfect fit for our defense. Hughes, will rotate in with Freeney and Mathis, and according to Polian, we may se him on the field with Freeney and Mathis. A new wrinkle, designed to pressure the opposing QB. 2) Lack of running game. Check, Alleman, Terry, McClendon and Brody Eldridge should help remedy that. 3) Lack of depth at the CB position. We lost Marlin and Jennings, but, we drafted. Kevin Thomas and Ray Fischer, acquired Brandon King, Terrail Lambert and Thad Turner. 5) Lack of TE depth. Check, Brody Eldridge. He should help with Goal line and short yardage running situations, and can develop into a better reciever over time. I think our draft was great, it will be nice to see Addai be able to run for a first down on 3rd and short, taking some of the burden off PM’s shoulders.

If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?

by whardiek on Apr 27, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've gotta disagree with you on this:
Now, three years later, Anthony Gonzalez has not lived up to expectations, and likely has lost his starting job to Pierre Garcon, a 6th rounder from Mount Union in 2008.

Just a little premature, imo.

I think Gonzo had lived up to expectations before his injury. I mean, he was a rookie filling in for Marv when he got hurt. As far as losing the starting job to PG, well perhaps in the beginning of the season but I have a feeling Gonzo be starting before the end of the season.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Apr 27, 2010 12:24 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Same here.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: Dead week just might be the best college invention ever. Now if only we didn't have any classes during the week at all......

by Cassieper on Apr 27, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think saying AGon is a bust

is like saying Pierre is a bust if he got hurt and didn’t play all next season. Injury doesn’t equal failure

insert signature here

by JustAJ on Apr 27, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Looks like many of us agree to disagree on that

When I first read it my response was WHAT!?!? Who the eff says 11 lost his job to 85? That’s insane.

Not living up to expectations? That too seems FAR off the mark.

Per FO’s advanced metrics, he was one of the best WRs on a per play basis his first two years, and missed the third due to injury. BBS, if you catch a cold do you get fired? Say you break your hand and cannot type?

No roster spots are guaranteed, of course, but assuming AG is 90% back, he beats out PG.

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Apr 27, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi

by gizzardfanny on Apr 27, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, D-Brown is a bust too?

"We’re only going to score 17 points? haha...OK" - Tom Brady

Leonard: "Sheldon, why is this letter in the trash?"
Sheldon: "Well, there's always the possibility that a trash can spontaneously formed around the letter, but Occam's Razor would suggest that someone threw it out."

Last piece of Colts merch added to my collection: iPod Touch skin.

by BlueMark1821 on Apr 28, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I dont know...

He cant heal for shit. Even now Polian says he’s behind schedule (rehab-wise) I think it’s fair to say he hasn’t lived up to expectations. If Peyton develops ANY chemistry at all with Blair White Gonzo is the obvious 5th wheel.

by naptown_ninja on Apr 28, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Durability means something is all I'm saying

AG is a better pure receiver but PG makes plays, takes a licking and keeps on ticking

by naptown_ninja on Apr 28, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have to respectfully disagree on Anthony
Now, three years later, Anthony Gonzalez has not lived up to expectations, and likely has lost his starting job to Pierre Garcon, a 6th rounder from Mount Union in 2008.

I’m not sure what the sudden displeasure with Anthony Gonzalez is going around the blog-o-sphere. I’ve heard that he is injury prone from several posts. As far as I know, he’s only been hurt once as a colt. Yeah it was for the entire year unfortunately but it is only one injury. Not living up to expectations isn’t something I think you can argue except that nobody expects to get hurt. But, it’s part of the game. The fact that Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon stepped in his absence isn’t his fault. I would also argue that I would rather have Anthony on the outside oppose to Pierre in some situations. Anthony has better hands than Garcon and is faster than Collie. Anthony didn’t produce the numbers in his 2nd season that the wonder twins did last year, but I not willing to say he’s a bust yet.

Release the Kraken!

by Believe in Blue on Apr 27, 2010 12:31 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I give it a C+

Based only on my perceived view of the players picked. However, if Jerry Hughes pans out as most of us think he will or Angerer proves some of us wrong, it becomes an A. At this point we have no idea what they will become, thus my grade.

My reasoning is that the Colts system is so sound that most positions on the defense seem replaceable and offensively PM will lift the level of whoever is brought into the fold. Therefore if a great player emerges from a class at one of these positions it becomes an A: QB, WR, LT, C, DE, MLB, S.

by GonzoBlue on Apr 27, 2010 12:44 PM EDT reply actions  

C+

Hughes: was the BPA and could turn in to an elite pass rusher. Doesn’t get full points because it wasn’t the biggest need and he won’t start right away. B+

Angerer: would have been available at least a round later (maybe 2.) Will be a career backup but a solid player. Good depth behind Brackett. C

Thomas: Tim Jennings 2.0. Whenever a guy’s work ethic is questioned it is a immediate red flag. I do not have a good feeling here. C -

McClendon: Not sure where all the McClendon love is coming from all of a sudden. This guy was barely draftable on most boards. We needed a quard, but he feels like practice squad to me. C -

Eldridge: Not a bad pick up but a pure role player. Not sexy but functional. B.

Matthews: Camp fodder. Too small to be that slow. D.

Conner: Should push Wheeler for playing time. I question is pass coverage though. Was the one pick (other than Hughes) where I felt we got good value. B

Fisher: A real kick returner! Yay! …but there is only so excited I can be about a kick returner who might get beat out by an UDFA. B.

by invisibulman on Apr 27, 2010 12:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Can't remember where I read that...

but the knock on Thomas is that he hasn’t played to his potential. I took that to mean lack of effort. Perhaps they were referring to injury setbacks. Either way, the pick does not instill a lot of confidence.

by invisibulman on Apr 27, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

It could be that he's a great physical specimen who has problems focusing/learning

As a youth baseball and football coach, man, I see that all the time. Kids with perfect mechanics who, never the less, cannot throw the same pitch twice, or have the prettiest Ken Griffey swing yet never connect with the ball. And other kids, for all their horrible mechanics, seem to put it together anyway for the tackle, the hit, the strikeout.

Not playing to their potential. Sometimes it’s an internal problem (brains, chemistry, ADD, desire, motivation) and sometimes the coaches’ fault. In fact, the guys may have been coached in exactly the wrong way in the past—making a “cure” as simple as showing them another way to get from A to B.

It CAN be fixable, but not always. Think of Michael Oher—up to age 18 he was all untapped potential. He needed to learn how to learn FAIRST, then learn both regular academics as well as football. It took a whole family and a private tutor and loads of cash (and love/support). Everything fell together just right for him. If we get somebody in the door who does not live up to his potential, it’s now the responsiblity of the organization (as well as the individual) to figure out how to best tap that potential. They might decide it’s not worth it and cut him, or keep trying. They might succeed (at which point he surpasses expectations) or semi-succeed (5 seasons as decent depth) or fail and he’s out of the league in two years.

But like any investment, they need to support it and work to make it maximize return. If it is truly a black hole of suck, then you cut your losses and say goodbye. (Can anyone tell I am struggling with an investment business, a seriously down real estate cycle, AND youth sports?)

Let’s let Thomas get a year in the system before we label him. To quote Linus Caldwell from Ocean’s 12, “I don’t think we want to be the type of organization that labels people….” (and yes, I am joking—the guy with agoraphobia WAS indeed a freak.)

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Apr 27, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

2007 was a perfectly good draft.

What about Clint Session? Gonzo was among the most productive WRs taken in his first two years, before blowing a knee last year. He’s expected to be the 2nd or 3rd WR this year. Ugoh and Dawson both started. Ugoh still might start again before all is said and done.

I swear you have no sense of what most draft picks should turn out to be.

Calling the 2007 draft an “utter failure” is ignorant at best, and completely irresponsible. It was a solid B draft.

If you want to see a bad draft, check out Philadelphia or New England from that year.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Apr 27, 2010 1:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Again

Thanks for continuing to be an ass in the comments, DZ. That said:

Gonzo has been injury prone, and he has likely lost his starting job to Garcon. This guy was drafted to eventually replace Marvin Harrison as a full-time starter. Since that has not happened… he has not lived up to expectations. I mean, ask yourself, will the Colts re-sign Gonzo when his contract is up? Right now, the answer is no.

I noticed you avoided talking about Ugoh, Coe, Hughes, Pitcock, and Dawson. Selective on your part, and typical.

I personally do not care about the Philly or NE drafts from 2007. Philly and NE sign free agents. We don’t. So, it’s not comparable.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by Brad Wells on Apr 27, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

...

Meanwhile, you continue to ignore Session.

"We'll put em in the pot, shake it up and see what comes out." - Howard Mudd

by McAfee#1 on Apr 27, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

He doesn't count.

He doesn’t fit BBS’ claim and therefore he should be ignored.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi

by gizzardfanny on Apr 27, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I haven't ignored him

Try reading all the comments, not selecting the ones you think make you sound smart.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by Brad Wells on Apr 27, 2010 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm Selective?

You didn’t even mention Clint Session because you know that no draft that produces a good starting LB is an “utter failure”

I only comment on your posts when you make horrible mistakes of fact.

Stop making mistakes and I’ll stop ripping you.

I talked about Dawson. He was late round pick who played quite a bit. That’s massive value from a 7th rounder. He started for a season and played in 42 games. That’s great 7th round pick. That was a great pick.

As for Gonzo, he didn’t “lose his job”. He got hurt in a freak way. He’s not injury prone as I noted above.

I assume you aren’t making these mistakes because you don’t know your stuff. I assume you are just being controversial for the sake of picking fights.

You are better than that. Being controversial isn’t the same as being good. You of all people should know that.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Apr 27, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

DZ

You can cry and scream and rant all you want. Gonzo is indeed injury prone. Adam Shefter called him so, as did many other NFL people I’ve talked to.

When Clint Session is the only person you can “salvage” from the 2007 Draft, that pretty much tells me all I need to know.

Keyunta Dawson stinks, according to everyone on this blog.

Gonzo is not the starting WR anymore. Garcon is. Hence, he lost his job… due to injury… because he’s injury prone.

You have an annoying habit of assuming your opinion is always the “correct” one and that everyone else is just “wrong.” You should work for Bill Polian.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by Brad Wells on Apr 27, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

arent you the same person who compared gonzo to reggie?

Wayne also had that same label and turned out just fine. You cant judge Gonzo yet and give him the permanent label of “injury pron and bust”

by metal_militia on Apr 27, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't think you know what opinion means.

If Gonzo is injury prone, so is your counter example Posluzny (opinion). Gonzo has missed exactly 1 more game than him (fact).

The last time Gonzo was competing for a spot with Garcon, Gonzo got on the field, that means he is the starter (opinion). The Colts have not released a depth chart for next year so we don’t know who the starter is (fact).

Dawson stinks (opinion). Dawson has managed to be on a nfl team for 42 games (fact) more than all but 3 other 7th rounders taken with him (fact).

by kasey_junk on Apr 27, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Dawson doesn't stink...

for a 7th round pick.

I’m glad that NFL people “you talked to” called Gonzo injury prone. It’s too bad the evidence doesn’t really support that.

My assumptions aren’t wrong because I back them with numbers and facts.

And yes. I love Bill Polian. I love everything about him. He’s absolutely my kind of guy.

Study more, talk less.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Apr 27, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

In 2007 Rodney Harrison broke Gonzo’s finger, probably on purpose. I think that was his only injury.

In 2008, he got nicked up in the SD playoff game, and couldn’t play the 2nd half.

And 2009, we all know of.

I don’t think he is injury prone. That’s another category.

by Ty46 on Apr 27, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

Gonzo was tearing up the SD playoff game in the first half. I never really heard what happened to him, but there was definitely some injury.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: Dead week just might be the best college invention ever. Now if only we didn't have any classes during the week at all......

by Cassieper on Apr 27, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think that Dawson stinks.

I think he’s a better version of Josh Thomas. He’s been valuable to put at DE in the case of injury and got lots of time there which is good for a 7th round pick.

Oh, and that first paragraph is a classic argument from authority. Just because someone says it’s true doesn’t mean it is.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: Dead week just might be the best college invention ever. Now if only we didn't have any classes during the week at all......

by Cassieper on Apr 27, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yet you don't address his main point.

By what standard are you judging a draft? What objective measure are you looking at? You’ve yet to enumerate what it is, nor compared it to other teams (if you don’t care about other teams, how do you even know what your objective measure compares to?)

Further you keep making completely unproveable statements and passing them off as facts. Gonzo is injury prone, Gonzo lost his starting job, Gonzo was drafted to replace Marvin Harrison.

Like DZ, I think that you are making controversial statements just to make them (or to drive page views). That is the definition of “being an ass”. You call out others when they do it, yet continue doing it yourself. There is a growing distaste for your articles, and I’d think you would start to at least pay a little attention to it.

by kasey_junk on Apr 27, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Controversial statements

WTF is so controversial about saying Ugoh, Pitcock, Hughes, Coe, and Hall all sucked and were disappointments? What so controversial about saying gonzo hasn’t lived up to expectations? He hasn’t. Does he stink? No, but he isn’t going to get re-signed by the Colts when his contract is up. Does that sound like a first round WR living up to expectations?

Again, it was a crappy draft. DZ doesn’t like it when people challenge him. He then starts name-calling and getting pissy.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by Brad Wells on Apr 27, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't call you names

I just pointed out that you were wrong. It’s a habit you’ve developed recently.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Apr 27, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

ignorant and irresponsible

I believe that is what you said. Again, your selective memory and inability to realize you are not “right” about everything hurts your arguments.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by Brad Wells on Apr 27, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

ignorant and irresponsible...

are not names. Rather, they are observations. “Ass” is considered name-calling, which is what you called DZ.

@lefpsyd

by lefpsyd on Apr 27, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

BBS not trying to be mean but just in this one post you are saying of DZ exactly what you do a lot of times.

Name calling and getting pissy when someone doesn’t agree with you. You also tend to at times feel you are right no matter what also.

Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator

by TheAngelsColts on Apr 27, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Rec'ed.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi

by gizzardfanny on Apr 27, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Guily

Though, in my defense, it is not done with the same regularity.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by Brad Wells on Apr 27, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

The controversial parts are the expectations in the first place.

You keep making expectations that are not in line with reality, then when players don’t match those expectations you say it is a crappy draft.

Further you continue to make unproveable statements and act like they are facts. How do you know that Gonzo won’t be resigned? Do you have some insider knowledge, do you know what next year will bring?

Finally, the only one that called someone a name in this thread is you. Grow up, deal with it and move on.

by kasey_junk on Apr 27, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gonzo isn't going to be re-signed by the Colts when his contract is up?

That’s news to me. Polian and the Colts have said or hinted nothing to that effect.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: Dead week just might be the best college invention ever. Now if only we didn't have any classes during the week at all......

by Cassieper on Apr 27, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Also his play has not even said he wouldn’t be resigned.

Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator

by TheAngelsColts on Apr 27, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

How was he being an ass?

I’d suggest your grasp of facts and argument structure is tenuous at best (yes, that’s ass-like because it insults YOU and not your opinion).

You state “This guy was drafted to eventually replace Marvin Harrison as a full-time starter. Since that has not happened…” Careful consultation of your Gregorian calendar will indicate that the first full year without Marvin was the year Gonzo blew out his knee. Hey, he DID replace him for the one series he was healthy.

So how exactly was he supposed to replace a HOFer while the HOFer was still on the roster, and how was he supposed to replace him from the freakin’ hospital? Okay, I didn’t replace Marvin either, I guess I am a failure as well.

What’s with the freakin’ Gonzo hate? Irrational at best. What, did some random Cuban run over your puppy when you were a kid?

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Apr 27, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Si!

When he was drafted, there were some great immigrant family stories in the press. His granny is a judge and I think both parents are lawyers, which is what AG plans to do in 15 years as well. He was called Tony his whole life but Granny called him one day at college and said “The NFL already has one famous Tony Gonzalez who catches passes, you shold go by Anthony from now on.” Who’s gonna argue with a judge.

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Apr 28, 2010 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

forgot to mention this

I think, like DZ, the ’’07 draft can be salvaged/ This is the final audition, at least for me, for players like Ugoh (im giving Gonzo a pass as he was productive and I think if healthy he will have a mind blowing season). If Ugoh can reclaim his starting job and prove he can be the player we expected him to be this year, this draft was a success

by metal_militia on Apr 27, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

If Gonzo and Ugoh turn things around, it’s no longer a horror show. However, you and I are talking about “salvaging” that draft while DZ is giving it a “B.” “B” grades usually don’t involve “salvage.” 2007 was a dud draft.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by Brad Wells on Apr 27, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

See, but unlike you

I dont see Gonzo as a bust. I see two productive players (Gonzo, Session), a guy that is borderline (Ugoh), and a serviceable player (Dawson)

by metal_militia on Apr 27, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gonzo

I believe I called Ugoh a bust. Gonzo has been disappointing because he hasn’t lived up to expectations. That’s not necessarily a bust. And again, if Gonzo and Ugoh turn things around in 2010, the 2007 Draft is likely “salvaged.” Right now, it’s pretty sunk.

SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.

by Brad Wells on Apr 27, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well if anyone has the expectations

that a football player will not get hurt then their expectations are a tad unreasonable. In fact, I generally have the expectations someone who is vital to the team will get hurt.

I just think its a tad early to come to any conclusion about Gonzo.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Apr 27, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

^^this

with the sheer physicality of football and the lengths to which these athletes push their bodies, I would consider it a minor miracle if each team does not have at least 1 significant injury to a starting caliber player per season.

the unfortunate thing with gonzo was that it was a freak non contact related injury.

"Nothing's complicated if you understand it" - Tom Moore

by scottishcoltsfan on Apr 27, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Expectations? what expectations.

Also I must say Gonzo has ABSOLUTLY NOTHING to turn around only needs to come back from his injury and continue what he was doing before. He was playing great and just cause he got hurt doesn’t mean he hasn’t lived up to expectation. Someone can not fail expectations (don’t know what they were unless you set them) just by getting hurt.

Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator

by TheAngelsColts on Apr 27, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Salvage?

Gonzo played great. He contributed for two seasons. That’s not nothing. The Colts made the playoffs for two years because he was there and playing great.

His injury may (or may not) keep him from becoming a star, but you can’t just ignore what he actually did.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Apr 27, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps "salvage" was a little strong

I think what i was looking for was more in the form of a phrase. Something along the lines of, “this could be one of the more successful draft” if Ugoh pans out.

by metal_militia on Apr 27, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Gonzo plays

If Gonzo repeats his 2008 season, this draft becomes a massive hit.

Let’s assume Ugoh gets cut, Gonzo and Session alone make this draft a solid B.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Apr 27, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

according to the AV value

The Colts out performed league average in the following rounds:

1, 2, 4, and 7.

They only performed under league expected value in two rounds (3 and 5).

Gonzo (even missing a year) is 14% better than what should have been expected.
Ugoh is 42% better than the typical guy picked in his spot.
The fourth round value was 105% better.
Dawson is 400% better than the typical guy picked there.

The problem is that expectations don’t match up with reality for the draft.

18to88.com

by deshawn zombie on Apr 27, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

the crux of the issue

When you start looking at objective measurements, it becomes obvious that the expectations are wrong, not that the draft is bad.

Unfortunately, even though BBS mentions objective measurements he doesn’t tell us what they are.

by kasey_junk on Apr 27, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok, here they are

Tony Ugoh was drafted to be the starting left tackle.

Anthony Gonzalez was drafted to be the starting WR.

Quinn Pitcock was drafted, and groomed, to become the starting DT.

Meanwhile, Michale Coe did very little, Dante Hughes stunk, and Keyunta Dawson is hated by just about everyone here. Again, just because the guy is “starting” doesn’t mean that he’s good. This team does very little in free agency, and when undrafted players like Melvin bullitt have had a greater impact on this franchise than anyone drafted from the 2007 class, that alone should tell you how bad it was by Colts standards.

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by Brad Wells on Apr 27, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your objective measurements are

Ugoh was drafted to be the starting left tackle – check did that his rookie year, and may do that this year.

Gonzo drafted to be the starting WR – check last time he was healthy he did that. And probably will again this year.

Pitcock drafted to become a starting DT – you got me, that didn’t work out. Of course that doesn’t address the issue that it is nearly impossible to find a starting DT in the 3rd round of the draft.
Finally, the fact that everyone hear hates Dawson, is the exact opposite of a objective measure. He performed well above the expectations for him as set by others taken at the same time in the draft.

by kasey_junk on Apr 27, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

What?

Who gives a crap what Ugoh did in his rookie year?

Again, “when he was healthy” is not that often with Gonzo.

People hate Dawson here because, in their opinions, he hasn’t played well. There’s some truth to that. Had Pitcock worked out, Dawson would not have needed to play so much.

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by Brad Wells on Apr 27, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again

You are comparing apples with oranges. Ugoh has to be considered a first rounder (not a second rounder) because that’s what the Colts gave up in 2008 to get him in 2007. Again, selective on your part.

Gonzo was drafted to replace Marvin Harrison as the Colts starting receiver. He hasn’t done that. If you feel that is an unrealistic expectation, fine. your standards are low. Everyone else’s are higher.

And again, when you are throwing out there that Keyunta Dawson is some kind of success story, you don’t make your argument look any stronger.

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by Brad Wells on Apr 27, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

why isn't Dawson a success story

By every objective measure we can find a 7th rounder that makes the team, stays on the team and gets into games is a success.

You saying other wise doesn’t make it so.

Also no matter how many times you claim that Gonzo was drafted to replace Marvin Harrison, that doesn’t make it a fair expectation. You are talking about replacing a Hall of Fame receiver, and not even giving the player 2 years as a starter to prove he can.

by kasey_junk on Apr 27, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was drafted to replace Marvin

Gonzo was never that great in the slot.

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by Brad Wells on Apr 27, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let me see if I get this right

Rather than:
1. Back of the unproveable statement or
2. Back up the unproveable statement

You are just going to keep repeating it? It’s a wonder people haven’t started agreeing with you yet.

by kasey_junk on Apr 27, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dawson

Ask anyone around here. Is Dawson a starting, or even a good back-up DE or DT? All I read in comments is how much Dawson sucks.

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by Brad Wells on Apr 27, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

a 7th rounder even seeing the field to suck is an upset

is the point being made.

Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
Just how deeply can your senses be wrong? With some VR goggles, a camera and a touch on the back researchers were able to overcome a person's sense of being inside their own body.

by shake n bake on Apr 27, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

only reason i complained about dawson

was because he could rush the passer from the DE position, which is the position they used him at for pretty much the whole time during last years preseason. If they would have kept him at DT, I would have been fine

by metal_militia on Apr 27, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

BUT DAWSON DOESNT NEED TO BE A SUCCESS!

he is a 7th freaking round draft pick. How many of those guys have become dominant. pro bowl, HOF, players? Seldom few.

7th round picks are
a) projects
b) Special teams/serviceable players

Given the two, Dawson was letter b). We got decent results from him. Thats all we could have asked

by metal_militia on Apr 27, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

You forgot

c) cut in training camp and never heard from again

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: Dead week just might be the best college invention ever. Now if only we didn't have any classes during the week at all......

by Cassieper on Apr 27, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

That expectation for Gonzo is wrong. He was not asked to take Marvins spot Reggie was.

Second then you would move and say ok Gonzo replaces wayne right? He did (or was) but then got hurt. Again I ask you can a person because they got hurt have failed expectation? I say know we still don’t know if they will meet the expectation set.

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by TheAngelsColts on Apr 27, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Excellent point.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Apr 27, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

A B draft does need salvaging

Because a B is not high enough.

I have high standards. As do the Colts.

Now if all the guys in your B draft are truly at their potential ceiling, then there is no salvage possible. You smile, and move on. But if they have injuries that they might have put in the rearview mirror, or change positions or get a new coordinator or whatever, and ther is a chance, then “salvage” is a reasonable thing to hope for.

Saying “salvage” need not imply a low grade—just one that can be improved. (And where I come from, a B is unacceptably low, but it’s gotta be judged in the context of the rest of the league..)

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Apr 27, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

A Solid B?

Trust me, after reading that, I have no intention of ever wasting my time reading the blog you are advertising.

by Cole Farrington on Apr 27, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

then you, sir, are an idiot

"We'll put em in the pot, shake it up and see what comes out." - Howard Mudd
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by McAfee#1 on May 3, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

This draft was a B for me

All solid selections, non that truly stands out (sans Hughes, I think he is a home run). I really like the Angerer pick (to the chagrin of some. im looking at you brad). Eldridge was a very smart selection and i think McClendon will surprise a lot of people. the only pick im not too fond of is Fisher. Yes he is a kick returner and i have been clamoring for one, but with that knee injury and a 40 that wasn’t blazing, I just fear that he wont have any break away speed to get past defenders and could be run down easily

by metal_militia on Apr 27, 2010 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

If he's with the Chargers

He might as well be out of football. :)

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by Brad Wells on Apr 27, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

So..

Any exciting debates going on around here???LOL

by GonzoBlue on Apr 27, 2010 1:48 PM EDT reply actions  

annnnnd

welcome to the pissing contest! lol

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Apr 27, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm pounding pints of water to restock my "ammo"

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Apr 27, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always enjoy debates involving DZ.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: Dead week just might be the best college invention ever. Now if only we didn't have any classes during the week at all......

by Cassieper on Apr 27, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

BBS, you're getting out of hand

Has Gonzo’s production matched our hopes? No, not really. But that doesn’t mean he hasn’t “lived up to expectations”. He blew his knee of a freak accident. That’s not HIS fault, that’s not Bill Polian’s fault, and it’s absolutely NOT a knock on the 2007 draft either.

People get hurt, you can’t plan for it or guard against it, and you can’t hold it against a draft pick that he might get his head knocked off or his knee cut out three years down the line.

That’s like saying that Marvin Harrison was a bust because a decade later he got his knee rolled. When Gonzo has been on the field (which, notwithstanding 2009, was basically every game), he’s been lights out. That’s a damn good value at #32

by slash196 on Apr 27, 2010 1:49 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

One more thing

When your rookie WR tops FO’s charts of receiver effectiveness…and then does it again the next year…posts 70 percent catch rates…and delivers some of the most memorable highlight plays of ANY Colts receiver…

how on earth can you call that a disappointment with a straight face?

by slash196 on Apr 27, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

and garcon spent most of the year under performing

We forget cause we like the kid, but by the numbers he was worse than a replacement player most of the year.

So all this talk of Garcon being a starter over Gonzo is way premature.

by kasey_junk on Apr 27, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't forget the drops

Garcon’s catch rate got better but didn’t crack 60 percent.

I mean, I’m no Jim Caldwell, but I sure as hell know who I’D start.

by slash196 on Apr 27, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Garcon, but he plays the deep ball.

He is going to have a lower rate than Clark, Collie or Gonzo. With those 3 guys Manning can tell if they are in a position to beat their cover and be able to make a reasonable play on the ball. With deep pitches, alot of skill is required, but sometimes the cover is just better than was thought, or the ball is placed a little too far out of reach, or Garcon didn’t get the hint quick enough and was a little late to play fetch. Still, there were a number of times he just flat out dropped the ball for no other reason than he just doesn’t have the hands to haul it in like the slot receivers do. Garcon isn’t a Randy Moss type guy, or a Classic Marvin Harrison who could pluck amazing catches out of the air. Garcon is a prototypical deep man who depends more upon the ball falling into his arms than on using his hands to haul the ball in. Still, Garcon is a great player, and will continue to be great on the team. I think the real battle will be Collie/Gonzalez. They are both good in the slot and have the hands and route technique to pull it off where Garcon can’t. Garcon has the speed to get downfield, and the toughness to outlast alot of guys, so I think his position is safe. Wayne will get first nod day in and day out (as he should do and deserves to), and will get just about anything he wants in terms of routes. If Gonzo can come back and show he has really great speed still, I’d love to see him play deep with Collie playing slot and Wayne doing his thing, with Garcon coming in to add another dimension to everything. Then line up Clark, with Addai in the backfield and you’ve got no possible way anyone can stop you.

Inside Mannings head during a game
Whats this? Wayne’s being double teamed? Garcon’s being hounded? Gonzo and collie are covered? Ahhhh… But you for got about my man Dallas. BOOOM. 18 yard pickup. Next play. Oh, you’re bringing the rush are you? BANG. Addai gets a nice 7 yard carry/short pass. Now you’re confused. Rush or not to Rush, that is why I own you. Still riding Wayne and Garcon? Fine, You have missed Gonzo’s route! 23 yard pickup. Ahhh, now you’ve eased off Garcon. BOOOOM, 33 yard TD.

A team would need its whole secondary, and every LB just to cover the Colts receivers, and at that point dump offs to Addai would be picking up 5-10 yards a piece. As soon as they bring any kind of Blitz a seam opens and Clark/Collie/Gonzo gets a 10+ yard pickup. As soon as they bring in someone from the secondary to cover the midrange ball you now have left yourself open to either Wayne’s or Garcon’s vengance, and they will burn you! I say just screw the run. Play a 4WR+TE out of the shotgun with Addai in the backfield, or in a singleback formation and not even the Jets and their insane secondary can stop us.

by Jamkel on Apr 27, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That gave me

an awesome visual! Rec’d.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Apr 27, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would be fun, but I'd be a little disappointed if Sorgi-Time

(a registered trademark, soon to be re-trademarked Painter-Time) started at the half of every game because #18’s 5 TDs were deemed “enough already.”

We’d suffer through a second half of backups, but well, we’d manage to get throgh it okay I guess….

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Apr 28, 2010 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

GO CAPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: Dead week just might be the best college invention ever. Now if only we didn't have any classes during the week at all......

by Cassieper on Apr 27, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I gave the draft an 'A'

simply because it was Polian making the decisions

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Apr 27, 2010 2:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Homer alert!

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Apr 27, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Being a homer can be fun sometimes!

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: Dead week just might be the best college invention ever. Now if only we didn't have any classes during the week at all......

by Cassieper on Apr 27, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I could just as easily give it an 'F'

because these guys haven’t taken a snap yet… BUST!

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Apr 27, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now THAT's the old Philadelphia resident in you coming through

Hey, Santa, you fat tub of goo, what the hell have you done for me the other 364 days this year? Screw you ! Boooooooo!

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Apr 28, 2010 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure why BBS's comment on Gonzalez is causing such a commotion

I agree that he has a lot of talent and isn’t a bust at all, but he hasn’t had the impact that was expected of him. That is due in large part to injuries, but he may never return to full strength due to his knee. Anyway, whether he recovers from his injuries or not doesn’t change the fact that the Colts’ 2007 draft was arguably the worst of the Polian era, much like the Steelers’ 2008 draft, whose only non-busts have been Mendenhall and Dixon, a 5th-rounder.

Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever.
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"[T]he Steelers have been evil pieces of crap for a long time who play dirty and seek to injure their opponents, and one day there will be a reckoning."
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by LV Steelers Fan on Apr 27, 2010 2:05 PM EDT reply actions  

I think mainly because

BBS’ comment about Gonzo is premature. We won’t really know anything until this season plays itself out. At least, that’s where I take issue.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Apr 27, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

2008 draft was worse. Nailing Garcon on a flyer was good, the rest was…not so good.

by slash196 on Apr 27, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hart, Wheeler, Tamme, and Santi have stuck around and made... some plays.

Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever.
Napoleon Bonaparte

Stampede Blue's Resident Steelers Fan

"[T]he Steelers have been evil pieces of crap for a long time who play dirty and seek to injure their opponents, and one day there will be a reckoning."
FriarBob

Can't you just feel the love?

Cornell University Class of 2014

by LV Steelers Fan on Apr 27, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

the commotion is all about the expectations

I would say that Gonzo has had the impact that was expected of him. If you look at his stats, his highlight reel, etc. he is a great player. We’ve forogtten this because he was injured last year. If the injury finishes his career (which I doubt) that would be a real shame, but it would not impact my impression of the draft class one bit.

Further, even if the 2007 draft is the worst of the Polian era that doesn’t tell us much. How does it compare to the average draft, and how does it compare to other teams in the same draft (in case the whole year was bad) are more telling information, but we haven’t even agreed on how we are going to judge these things.

With all these unanswered questions, instead of exploring the interesting thing here (how do you judge a draft, what are realistic expectations for a draft) BBS continues to spout opinion as if it was fact, and rant when people disagree with him.

by kasey_junk on Apr 27, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Apparently BBS and DZ hate each other

Which is a shame because DZ is always right, and I mean always.

by slash196 on Apr 27, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Hit the nail.
Maybe it’s good marketing, but it’s lousy analysis.

BBS obviously cares more about stirring the pot and get hits than about good analysis.

Quantity > Quality.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi

by gizzardfanny on Apr 27, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

your third recc of the day

from me

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Apr 27, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

oops reply fail

that was to slash 196

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Apr 27, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

No,

you did reply to slash.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: Dead week just might be the best college invention ever. Now if only we didn't have any classes during the week at all......

by Cassieper on Apr 27, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Either I am stupid or my one giant finger (8 inches wide) is just too fat to type right

What was the Simpson’s gag when Homer was on disability because of obesity? He had to type phone numbers using a pencil… “or just mash the keypad with your whole hand at the tone.”

No, wait, my initial “3rd of the day” response lines up as a reply to slash. Just that after DZ it doesn’t look as if it’s to Slash. Come over here, I’ve drans lines on my screen with a Sharpie and a ruler… see? clearly they line up.

aw, crap. Why’d a I use a freakin’ Sharpie?

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Apr 28, 2010 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

You could just use the up button

that SBN provides for you.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: Dead week just might be the best college invention ever. Now if only we didn't have any classes during the week at all......

by Cassieper on Apr 28, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

What up bu.... oh look... there's an UP button.

Careful what you wish for... a government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take everything you have.

by teej813 on Apr 28, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Go figure.

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: Dead week just might be the best college invention ever. Now if only we didn't have any classes during the week at all......

by Cassieper on Apr 28, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's because

People don’t like to admit Bill Polian sometimes screws up.

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by Brad Wells on Apr 27, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope.

Not. at. all.

C’mon, BBS, a few people have provided strong arguments here. Please don’t throw out the “homer” card just because some of us disagree with your statement.

"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007

by peytonsthebest on Apr 28, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Even the Colts actual Draft

got a higher grade the “expert” Kiper’s mock draft.

Our heads may be bloody, but they are unbowed. We will be back next year better than ever!
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by coltsfan723 on Apr 27, 2010 2:25 PM EDT reply actions  

All in all,

the poll produced a lovely bell curve

@lefpsyd

by lefpsyd on Apr 27, 2010 3:14 PM EDT reply actions  

looks a lot like

the grade distribution for most of my classes ;)

"We'll put em in the pot, shake it up and see what comes out." - Howard Mudd

by McAfee#1 on Apr 27, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate bell curves.

/random

"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir

Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: Dead week just might be the best college invention ever. Now if only we didn't have any classes during the week at all......

by Cassieper on Apr 27, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do wonder..

It was good we got some backup for Freeney and Mathis but for the rest of the draft give them a C. In the second round we got Angerer a productive player but we could have got Charles Brown or traded some 7th rounders for Brandon Spikes or Carlos Dunlap.

In the third Kevin Thomas is he not injury prone, after last year and all the injuries I was suprised we took him. I would have took Akwasi Owusu-Ansai or Everson Griffen. Jacques McClendon in the fourth not a consistent starter, I would have taken Cam Thomas as our DL need more help.

Eldridge Brody a project with a 5th round pick ? couldnt we get a blocking tight end as a free agent and some back up for Manning, Painter won’t cut, I would have gone for LeFevour. As we all know the 7th round is the biggest hit & miss round of the draft so we will just have to see how they go. I guess the good news, they addressed draft needs OL CB DL. I hope am proved wrong.

P

by palco on Apr 27, 2010 4:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow man, talk about pessimism. I think we all agree the Hughes pick was a coup because I don’t think any of us expected him to be available at #31.

I was a bit confused by the Angerer pick when it happened, but then I began to do some research. What I found, and ended up being confirmed by McShay when he talked about the Colts draft, was that not only was Angerer a physical and mental fit for the Colts, he was also the last true top-tier MLB before a major drop-off in talent. Angerer will be a back-up and a special teams player at first, but 2-3 years from now, the man is going to be the new captain of the D when Brackett hangs it up or is cut for financial reasons. I really wish people would stop talking about Charles Brown. 31 teams passed on him twice and they did so with a reason. The guy clearly wasn’t franchise LT material or he would’ve been snatched up far earlier by a team like Buffalo. CARLOS DUNLAP DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE A COLT!!!!!! Not only does he get a DUI the day before the biggest game of the his college career, there are major questions about his attitude and desire. Seeing him in the horseshoe would be a blasphmey.

I’ll admit I didn’t know alot about Thomas, but it sounds like he’s a scheme fit. Just because Scouts Inc had a guy rated higher, like AOA, doesn’t mean he’s the best fit for a team. Only the Colts scouts know that, and they decided Thomas.

McClendon could be the steal of the draft. Alot of great players aren’t identified by the giant scouting corporations. Apparenlty McClendon generated interested from 5-7 teams, including the Steelers. The OL needed more help than the DL, and McClendon seems like an athletic and intelligent lineman. A Colts O-lineman.

Trent Williams, the #4 overall pick, called Brody Eldridge the best blocker on the Sooner squad. The guy was so good that he played center when they needed him to! That is the the kind of dedication the Colts look for.

All in all, I think it was a good draft of players who fit the Colts scheme. It was a draft with an eye to the future, which is what a squad that came within a hair’s width of the Lombardi Trophy does. While there will be little immediate production, 2-3 years down the road I think this will prove to be a productive draft

by 2ndBlueGeneration on Apr 27, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not even sure I count Ugoh as a total bust

He did start a full season at LT, after all. And while that has failed in the long perspective, he could still become a starter at guard or RT.

I’m not going to grade this draft class this soon. It doesn’t make sense to do so before they have played a single down in the NFL.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi

by gizzardfanny on Apr 27, 2010 5:14 PM EDT reply actions  

And hindsight has shown that 2007 was an allround weak draft class

Most teams sucked in that year.

We got a starting WR, a one-year LT, a starting LB and a back up DT/DE. That is not “utter failure” in a weak draft class. It is a weak draft class by Polian measures, but there simply weren’t many good players that year.

But I guess that was Polian’s fault?

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi

by gizzardfanny on Apr 27, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree about Ugoh

In 2007 we lost in the playoffs because of (1) Freeney’s and Mathis’s injuries and (2) probably would have struggled against the Pats juggernaut, though they were fading at the end and maybe we WOULD have gone to the SB. Our 2007 team was excellent.

So say the DEs are healthy and we DO win the SB that year.

The season after our old pro bowl LT retired and a new rookie fills his shoes. Remember, we were the #2 seed in the AFC that year—we had a LOT of wins with Ugoh taking on the other teams’ best pass rushers. Polian’s pick is heralded as beyond genius. It’s mystical. Psychic.

How would Ugoh not be a total HERO in those circumstances?

Yet he is considered a pariah now, partly because the Pats had an up year and Freeney and Mathis got injured. Go figure.

I am exaggerating to make the point, but his rookie campaign mattered and still matters to me, and was sorely disappointed in Ugoh’s career trajectory after his rookie season. But if we won the SB that year, Ugoh would be getting free meals in Indy restaurants until he’s too old to remember his own name, because our rookie LT took on the NFL’s best and won us a Lombardi.

I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.

by Bobman on Apr 28, 2010 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe I'm just stupid or something...

But writing off this injury to Gonzo, he is performing exactly like I thought he would. He lived up to my expectations and more actually. He played 3rd WR behind Harrison and Wayne. He was the 4th or 5th target usually because dumpoffs to Clark and Addai prevailed when options 1 and 2 didn’t pan out, yet he still put up 1,240 yards in 2 years. I’d say thats quite impressive for a guy that low down on the pecking order. The thing that always sold it with me is that Gonzo had good hands. Even on bad days, Gonzo could be relied on to catch to balls he was supposed too. In the SB this past year, how many of our drives were doomed because Garcon dropped an easy pass? How many times did Clark let one go through his fingers that he normally plucked from the air like a cherry blossom? How many times was Collie just that much off his route and the ball just didn’t stay in his fingertips? As I said, even when Gonzo was having a bad day he would make his normal catches consistently, and he’d always get a few yards extra.

The reason we had such high hopes for Gonzo last year was the simple fact that even though he was so far down on the pecking order, he was productive (as any good colt should be). You’d look at game tape and you could see Gonzo getting separation, or being wide open for some nice gains if he had been a first or second look. We expected Gonzo to be amazing last year because he showed he had much more in the tank to put out than his 4th option status dictated. BBS, I respect your writing, and value your input, but if you feel that Gonzo’s injury last season has ruined him as a Colt Reciever, then I offer the challenge to wait and see. We won’t know how Gonzo WILL do until we see it. All I know is that with the kind of work ethic I saw him put up with Manning in Offseason workouts, I have faith that unless some serious career ending knee failure has befallen him that he will atleast equal the value of Collie and Garcon. Only time will tell though, but regardless if Gonzo crashes due to the injury to his knee, that is not a draft failure, but a freak dumb luck failure. Gonzo showed potential for the position he was put in. Gonzo put up comparable stats as a starter as Reggie Wayne did in ‘08, and in ’07 had better stats as a backup than Harrison did as a starter, and put up numbers on par with Reggie’s career average as a starter.

Basically, this is how I see it. Gonzo had similar numbers as Collie while play a similar position (3rd or 4th option). Gonzo put up similar numbers as a starter to those of Reggie Wayne. Gonzo combined the highest catch completion percentage, with the highest ypc, and yac of all colts receivers during his time, and the only real knock on him is he tore a knee ligament that put him out for a year. 1 freak serious injury does not make him injury prone. Sanders is the definition of injury prone. Unless Gonzo comes out and misses half the games over the next 2 years this is just a statistical outlier. Still though, with Gonzo’s production and the lack of a sufficient enough sample period, either the whole of the colts receiving corps are busts, or the tag being placed on Gonzo is premature. Its not like we are dealing with Tim Jennings here. We are talking about a 1st round WR that was on a team behind 2 HOF 1st round WRs. Harrison may have been old, but how many times was he thrown the ball and didn’t make the play? Harrison was given the opportunities over Gonzo in ‘07, and ’08 and so Gonzo can’t be blamed for Manning looking to Harrison as 1st or second option.

As for the draft I gave it a B-. I give the Hughes an A, Angerer and McClendon a B, Thomas an F, Eldridge a B-, Mathews and Conner a C, and Fisher a B. On the US GPA grading scale that works out to about 2.5, and as I like the Hughes/Angerer/McClendon picks more than I hate the Thomas pick, I favor the B- over the C+. This response is already over-long, but I’ll give justification for my grading if anyone wants it.

by Jamkel on Apr 27, 2010 6:14 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Thank you.

Well written post.

"It's the greatest job in the world until Peyton comes off the field and you think his thumb might be broken and there's three minutes left in the AFC Championship Game and you're down by three to New England and you haven't taken a snap all year. Yeah, it's a great job until that point." - Jim Sorgi

by gizzardfanny on Apr 27, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm gonna go with B-

Why? Because I am giving Polian the benefit of the doubt. I want to give it a C at best, but I’ve rarely had extremely positive feelings about any of our past 5 or 6 drafts (as far as I really remember). I have had at least one WTF?!?! shout per draft. Last year was exception, as I liked nearly all of them (I had doubts about Brown, but only because it shocked me). Yet, he is smarter than all of us, and nearly always proves me wrong.

Of course, remember how stupid draft grades are. Remember how much a steal Brady Quinn wa, and everyone gave Cle A+++++ grades? Or how Jamarcus Russell was a given at #1? I myself was pissed we went with Gonzo over Dwayne Jarrett (the USC hate hadn’t set in for me yet as it has now). We will now a few years from now what grade this class really is. For now, B-.

I LOVED the Hughes pick, love Angerer, but hate where we drafted him and the fact we passed on a supposed 1st rd talent in Brown (position of supposed major need) for him. I hate the Thomas pick, but will withhold judgment as he is talented, fast, we need a corner, and polian hit 3rd rd gold last year with a DB. Why can’t lightning strike twice? Love the McClendon pick and think he can start at guard right away. Think he was a steal to make up for the Angerer reach. LOVE the Eldridge pick for all reasons everyone already knows. Conner is a good ST caliber with steal potential and Fisher was obviously a steal in the return dept. Not drafting a LT is the move making me question this draft, which seems to be filled with down the road impact guys as opposed to right away (and opposed to last year with Collie, what should have been Brown had he not gotten hurt, etc.).

The non-draftee signings once again separated BP from the pack. To say Brandon James is a steal is an understatement. Not only is he an incredibly dynamic return threat, he has Darren Sproles 3rd down back capability for us. Thankfully, size always still raises questions, even if the person in question was an all american at a top tier SEC school. The Cincy LT could also be a great find, and I am really rooting for James to make the squad as well, for sentimental reasons.

"A lot of times, Kenny, we have no idea what we're doing. But the DEFENSE doesn't know that we don't know what we're doing.....and that's next level." -Peyton Manning

by npb1985 on Apr 27, 2010 6:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Seriously

BBS, do you work for the coaching staff?

Unless Caldwell or Polian or someone inside told you directly that Gonzo won’t be re-signed or any of that stuff, don’t assume any of that crap.

Plenty of times last year, Polian, Caldwell, and even Manning said (paraphrased) “we did so and so [on offense] WITHOUT GONZO” a bunch of times. Now, what does that tell you? Seeing how Gonzo was a better receiver than PG (prior to the injury, anyway), I wouldn’t assume crap if I were you.

All sorts of people here say this kind of stuff all the time (you included BBS). This player will surely get cut, this player will surely suck, etc etc etc. Dan Muir, CJ come to mind. Seriously, you all can predict like crazy all you want, but don’t bet on it because a good number of times you will turn out to be wrong.

2007 Draft horror show, etc etc etc. Sure, you are the person to judge. I laugh when everyone outside gives A or B or C or whatever to drafts (even after couple years), because no one outside (especially those media chumps) is qualified, with the exception of few guys who were ex-GMs and successful.

Oh, Quinn Pitcock wasn’t a bust in my view. Dude quit, he didn’t get cut by being terrible.

I never grade Drafts. It’s just plain stupid. No one knows what’s going to happen, who will be busting, who won’t be. I’m going to wait for a minimum of 3 years (preferably 5) before I even bother to look.

University of Pennsylvania '14

by Bluedude on Apr 27, 2010 6:42 PM EDT reply actions  

I graded this Draft a B+

Because we got some talented players that really filled some holes well. I don’t feel we really addressed all of our need though. Although I do like the Thomas kid, I think picking Mardy Gilyard would have been a better selection in the last 3rd round. Thomas would have been there a round later, as well as mclendon a round later. That would have filled the need at 5th WR, as well as solid returner.

~SHaFF!~

by SHaFF87 on Apr 27, 2010 9:42 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m liking Blair White to fill that role. Gilyard is a bit of a show-off. White was a walk on with a great combination of speed and good hands. I look for him to crack the roster

by 2ndBlueGeneration on Apr 27, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Blair White was an absolute steal

I’m betting he pushes for a roster spot, and we’ll at least see him in preseason.

by slash196 on Apr 28, 2010 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

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