XX1090 Radio in San Diego: Colts actively pursuing Chargers left tackle Marcus McNeill
by Brad Wells on Apr 4, 2010 12:21 AM EDT
in Colts News
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PrintEither this is a huge story with serious implications for the Colts and the NFL Draft, or it is just another silly reporter blowing a lot of hot air in the hopes that stupid bloggers like me pick it up and run with it.
On Friday, local San Diego radio host and columnist Lee 'Hacksaw' Hamilton offered up a pretty big topic of conversation for the listeners of his XX1090 radio show "Sportswatch." According to Hacksaw's sources, Bill Polian and the Colts are actively pursuing Chargers restricted free agent left tackle Marcus McNeill.
I don't have an article link to this story. You can listen to Hacksaw talk about it here. He mentions it in the first 10 minutes of his radio show.
McNeill was tendered by the team as a restricted free agent. Any club wishing to sign McNeill to an offer sheet that is not matched by the Chargers would need to surrender a 1st and 3rd round pick to San Diego. Hacksaw's sources tell him that an offer sheet for McNeill would need to be in the neighborhood of 5 years, $35 million with $12-15 million in bonus money upfront. If the Colts sign McNeill to an offer sheet like this, the Chargers would have 7 days to match it. If they don't, McNeill is a Colt, the Chargers get Indy's 1st and 3rd round picks in the 2010 NFL Draft, and Tony Ugoh officially goes down as one of the all-time biggest draft busts in Bill Polian's career.
Now, some in San Diego warn that people like Hacksaw are blowhards looking for attention. Rarely do his "sources" hold up, and it is possible that Hacksaw is only mentioning this scenario because PFT's Mike Florio wrote an article for Sporting News suggesting that McNiell to the Colts is an off-season move that should happen.
However, after listening to Hacksaw's radio show, I do not get the sense that he is floating this out there because of something Mike Florio wrote. He files the rumor in with the other hard news that involves the Chargers, such as Darren Sproles signing his tender and LaDainian Tomlinson slamming Norv Turner. This rumor may have legs, and if it does it would be one of the biggest OMFG! moments in Bill Polian's career as President of the Colts.
Hacksaw makes some pretty interesting points as to why this deal is churning:
- The Chargers are clearly dragging their feet in re-signing McNeill. They have, roughly, $30 million in freed money (in an uncapped year), but they are being cheap heading into 2010. Management and ownership are hoping players like McNeill simply sign their tenders, play for one year, and next year (if a new collective bargaining agreement is reached) the Chargers would work to extend McNeill long term.
- Bill Polian and Chargers GM A.J. Smith go way back. Both were part of what Hacksaw refers to as the "Buffalo Mafia." Smith comes from the Polian tree of executives, along with the late-John Butler who brought Smith to San Diego in the late-1990s.
- The Colts have cleared $10 million in veteran contracts and are looking to totally overhaul their offensive line.
- Quite simply, a player like McNeill will not be there at the 31st pick in the 2010 Draft. McNeill is considered by some to be one of the best left tackles in all of football. Maybe he's not Joe Thomas or Bryant McKinnie, but he is a serious upgrade over Charlie Johnson and Tony Ugoh. Surrendering a 1st and a 3rd for an impact player like McNeill is a win for the Colts.
Obviously, from my vantage point, if this story is real the Colts should aggressively work to sign McNeill to an offer sheet. There is no salary cap, which means I don't care about budgets and salary ceilings and all that crap. No cap means that, from a fan's point of view, if you are not doing anything and everything to sign the best players to my team, why should I spend higher prices on tickets?
McNeill is an impact player at the one of the most important positions on any football team: Left tackle. There is no guarantee that someone like Charles Brown or Bruce Campbell will be available at pick #31, and, if they are available, there is even less of a chance they will be 1/10th as good in the future as McNeill is right now.
So, if this deal is viable, the Colts should absolutely go for it!
The other thing to factor in here is that signing McNeill weakens a rival team. The Chargers are a passing-oriented team and quarterback Philip Rivers cannot run. Take McNeill off that roster and you hurt the Chargers offense. It is literally that simple.
If the Chargers do match the offer the Colts give McNeill, then fine. For the Colts, it's as if they never pursued the deal. They keep their picks and move forward enhancing a team that won the AFC Championship. Meanwhile, the Chargers lock up a player they should have already locked up a long time ago. How Smith could let a cornerstone player like McNeill go into an uncapped year as a restricted free agent beats me. Sounds like owner Dean Spanos is getting cheap, which suits me fine.
The deal sounds fantasitcal because when have you ever seen or heard of a rumor like this associated with Bill Polian? If this happens, it trumps the Corey Simon signing. It would go right up there with the Booger McFarland trade as one of those HOLY FLYING DOG TURDS, BATMAN! moments that comes along once in a blue moon for Polian. It would also send a VERY clear signal that management thinks the o-line from last year was crap. McNeill is 6'7, 336 pounds. Getting him, along with jettisoning Ryan Lilja (290 pounds) and signing Adam Terry (335 pounds) and Andy Alleman (304 pounds), would spell the end of Indy's trend of bringing in smaller, quicker lineman.
McNeill is also only 26-years-old, and signing him to a 5-year-deal would lock up the left tackle spot for the duration of Peyton Manning's career. So, yeah, if this deal is really something working in the background, I am all for Bill Polian pulling the trigger. This would be a major story if it happened, and it would significantly upgrade an area of weakness for the AFC Champs.
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I think I'd rather have Gaither for just the 1st
"Winning isn't everything, but it beats anything that comes in second."
--Paul "Bear" Bryant
"All winning teams are goal-oriented. Teams like these win consistently because everyone connected with them concentrates on specific objectives. They go about their business with blinders on; nothing will distract them from achieving their aims."
--Lou Holtz, former Notre Dame football coach
I'd rather have Gaither
"Not stoppin' there, that's not in store. Push it to the limit, we want more."
-Gordon Hayward a.k.a. G-Time
Also
Gaither is more than 2 years younger than McNeill.
He may not have reached his prime yet.
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Gaither has concerns about intelligence, character, and work ethic
I wonder how many times this has to be said until certain people get it.
other than that, Mrs. Lincoln
how did you enjoy the play? ;-)
How can you not love a team that does this?
Eleventy billion.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: That sucked.
So you'd say...
we’re half way there???
Movie Quote of the Week: "He better be worth it. He better go home and cure a disease, or invent a longer-lasting light bulb."
I'd say we're
living on a prayer.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: That sucked.
Same here.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: That sucked.
Im one of the few that would prefer McNeill
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As long as we have Peyton (and no surprise gay onside kicks are made) we will always have a chance to win.
Not for a 1st and 3rd
Traded for #31 and given a new contract for 5 for 35 would be great. Will have to think about where the line specifically is, but for now it’s somewhere between a 1st and a 1st and 3rd.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
Just how deeply can your senses be wrong? With some VR goggles, a camera and a touch on the back researchers were able to overcome a person's sense of being inside their own body.
This deal will happen
I am also one of those who would like Mc Neill on this team. Indy does not lose much by surrendering the picks. Most of the impact players will be done by the time indy picks and the Oline is in need of a huge upgrade.
Polian will make this happen.
by Horseshoe_Tsunami on Apr 4, 2010 1:19 AM EDT reply actions
You're pretty sure of yourself.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: That sucked.
Mehhhhhhh....
Would I complain if we got McNeil? No. Would I prefer we get Gaither, who is younger, bigger, and has the same quality stat sheet as McNeil last year? Absolutely.
That said, if the Colts are going to waste a first rounder on a LT that may or may not pan out, which is what I’ve been saying for a long time now, then I’d rather see them waste it in a trade or signing scenario where they get a proven LT. I’m just not sure about the 3rd rounder. We are already without a 6th rounder (Totally worth it for McAfee), but that would bring our total number of draft selections down to 6, including our compensation picks. Just having 2 and 4 seems so much worse to me than 2, 3, and 4. If we go for McNeil, then I may not mind so much letting Bullitt go so long as a Safety becomes our 2nd round pick.
My question though, say we get McNeil or Gaither, then lose Bullitt, who becomes our number 1 pick in the 15-25 range? Then what about our second?
Bullitt is a very good young safety who has heart and wants to win....
don’t think losing him and get a 2nd round for a rookie safety is a sure bet….. just look at his words after the SB loss….. he wants to win and I believe with such a desire, he will play even better this year.
If McNeil is proven, can really help with pass and run block....
given the lack of quality late round LT in the draft… and if we don’t have to lose Bethea or Bullitt…. it should be a great move.
This is fascinating, provided that it's accurate.
It’s such an un-Polian move that it makes you wonder what Bill thinks about McNeill’s talent level versus the potential of anybody we’d target in the first round, regardless of position. Giving up the picks makes me twitch a little. I’m almost as conservative as Polian in regard to trusting the talent you develop over some other coaching staff.
It also really makes you think about why he’d target McNeill over Gaither. Maybe it’s just about trusting A.J. Smith, but I can’t help but wonder if there’s something about Gaither that sent up a red flag (medical issue, etc.).
Anonymity breeds inhumanity. In simpler terms, don't be a troll.
Yes make it happen, it would be the smart move
McNeill is proven talent, he’s better than any thing available at 31, and worth the 1st and the 3rd round picks required. Even if Brown is there at 31, and even if he starts at LT, he won’t be as good as this guy is for a few years, if ever. There’s no guarantee that Brown will be better than Ugoh, this guy is. If McNeill is there and he wants to work with PM and the Colts, then management should try and make this happen. PM isn’t going to be playing for ever; he deserves to have a real pro bowl talent at LT watching his back.
Defense is more important than breathing.
It's a big give-up
but think about it. The most important position on the field is the QB. The second-most is #1 pass-rusher. And the third-most important is the guy that protects against the #1 pass rusher, IE LT. Paying out for proven pro-bowl talent is not a bad idea. That said, I really doubt this goes through, Polian being who he is.
Ain't Gonna Happen...
Hacksaw has been fired from other radio jobs here in SoCal for making stuff like this up. He’s notorious for this kind of flyer. It’s so bad, the other radio talking heads openly laugh at him live on the air when he does this. He’s treated like your wino great uncle that shows up to thanksgiving smelling like Thunderbird. Don’t trust a word that comes out of this guys mouth.
How do we know when Hacksaw is lying? When his mouth is moving in public.
yeah exactly
Hacksaw is simple a hack. You know when Jim Rome says something like “SHOW ME YOUR LIGHTNING BOLT!” or “HAVE I GIVIN YOU ENOUGH TO TALK ABOUT!?” or starts randomly naming places in San Diego “POWAY, OCEAN BEACH, MISSION BEACH, ALPINE, DEL MAR” he is simply making fun of Hacksaw because he has so little respect for him.
Kevin Acee of the union tribune in SD hates hacksaw because he simply just makes stuff up.
Really good read but just take everything Hacksaw says with a grain of salt.
Life is like riding a bicycle, to keep your balance, you must keep moving.-Einstein
Jim Rome doesn't respect him?
Suddenly I feel like this Hawksaw guy is much more intelligent than I previously thought.
"Not stoppin' there, that's not in store. Push it to the limit, we want more."
-Gordon Hayward a.k.a. G-Time
i was just giving you and example
there are plenty of people who think he is a baffoon
Life is like riding a bicycle, to keep your balance, you must keep moving.-Einstein
yep exactly
thats why Rome only does interviews live (Hacksaw records them first all the time), and why rome takes so few phone calls.
Life is like riding a bicycle, to keep your balance, you must keep moving.-Einstein
Then Hacksaw sounds enjoyable
"Not stoppin' there, that's not in store. Push it to the limit, we want more."
-Gordon Hayward a.k.a. G-Time
They aren't getting it.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: That sucked.
I agree
From someone who listens to a lot of San Diego talk radio…
not to say that Hacksaw puts out false rumors, but I think that he takes any little rumor and treats it like its valid. He’s enjoyable and all, but you just can’t believe everything he says.
You cannot match a full tender
It’s too much for any player. I really can’t think of anyone in the league I’d give up a 1st and 3rd for (except Peyton Manning, and he’s already on the team), especially in this draft, which is a deep one. Now working out a trade now that they’ve tendered him, that’s something different all together. Just like Gaither, now that McNeil’s tendered the Colts could offer up the 31st overall and maybe a future 1st, or a couple mid-to-late rounders in this draft. Long-terming him would be no problem, so there’d be no reason for him to not want to do it. It’d be all about how much the Chargers realistically think they can get for him versus possibly losing him for nothing during his UFA year.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
Come visit The Fantasy Ninjas. We'd love to hear from you.
1st and 3rd
That’s a lot to give up when you’re trying to build some quality depth at as many positions as the Colts are. I think the 3rd may even be a tougher one to lose because of how well the team usually picks talent mid-late rounds. That would mean more spots would have to be filled with udfas….ugh. Was really counting on that spot to help find a cb, de or lb.
1st and 3rd
Unless that’s Jake Long or Joe Thomas, I’m not buying.
"Not stoppin' there, that's not in store. Push it to the limit, we want more."
-Gordon Hayward a.k.a. G-Time
Or Ryan Clady.
I’d be ok with the 1st, but thinking about giving up both the 1st and 3rd makes me stop breathing.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Apr 4, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't stop breathing unless it actually happens.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: That sucked.
Same here.
Only franchise players are worth that. McNeill isn’t one.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: That sucked.
Yes he is.
But there’s no way the Colts can have him for any sane amount of money. Getting McNeill to sign for $35m would be a gift to AJ Smith, as he’d match it and save a bundle. Of course, Mac and his agent know this… all smoke, no fire.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Apr 7, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel
But somehow I missed that McNeill was tendered at a 1st AND a 3rd. Seems too high a price – if Polian is truly pursuing him, I have to believe it would be in trade, which means potentially losing a player… likely in the secondary where the Chargers are exposed.
How can you not love a team that does this?
Same here.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: That sucked.
Question:
If we are actually going bigger on the OL, how does everyone think these bigger guys are going to handle nearly 60 minutes of no huddle? The one advantage of having a smaller O Line was that the no huddle tired out the opposing defenses because of their size.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
Good question
We’ll find out in training camp.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
That's very true.
Never even thought of that.
Movie Quote of the Week: "He better be worth it. He better go home and cure a disease, or invent a longer-lasting light bulb."
Tarik Glenn
Kind of survived. He was about that big, was he not? I do know for sure he was 330+ but can’t remember the exact number.
University of Pennsylvania '14
Yeah,
he was about 330. Maybe that was the reason for all of the false starts. I can see one guy on the line, but so far it looks as though there will be more than one guy that size.
I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
19 days…
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Apr 4, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
He might be the exception to the rule
instead of the rule itself.
Movie Quote of the Week: "He better be worth it. He better go home and cure a disease, or invent a longer-lasting light bulb."
And by "might be" I meant "might have been"
Movie Quote of the Week: "He better be worth it. He better go home and cure a disease, or invent a longer-lasting light bulb."
Glenn was big, listed 332lbs and often got to spend the start of camp cutting weight to get back down to that.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
Just how deeply can your senses be wrong? With some VR goggles, a camera and a touch on the back researchers were able to overcome a person's sense of being inside their own body.
What can I say, the brother's Samoan....
Yes, TG had weight issues—one camp near the end there he was asked to leave and not allowed back for almost two weeks—now logic always told me he was more likely to lose the weight working in camp than sitting around his house, where he got into weight trouble in the first place….
Regarding McNeill, I don’t know if there is enough hot water in my house (tankless water heater, so it’s infinite) for me to shower away the scum I’d feel after the 2009 playoff game. I snipe at the guy every chance I get for his blocking “technique” of putting his hands on Freeney’s facemask and driving it up to the ceiling (and the dickhead refs somehow not noticing, even though the TV cameramen clearly did).
Would he improve our OL? Yes. Would his loss hit a key rival? Yes (at least in the short term). Could I ever bring myself to cheer for him? Probably not.
Leaving emotion out of it, I’d be okay with it.
I hate Joe Namath. That's how long I've been a Colts fan.
LOL
@ “leaving emotion out of it…” Like that’s possible.
I totally forgot he was the @ss who face masked DFree. Thanks for the reminder. ;)
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Apr 4, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice CSC move there.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: That sucked.
hmmmmm
i love the draft and this signing would dort of kill the excitment
i think its okay for him, but im not thrilled about the picks..
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
why did I listen to that clip? He actually said “Frisco”! AAARRGGGHHHH!!!
How can you not love a team that does this?
I take it that you don't like that.
"I am in favor of censorship ‐ not against what is supposed to be sexy or dirty, but against what is idiotic." -Jean Renoir
Random fact of the week from the empty void that is my mind: That sucked.
Why not a 1st & 3rd?
IF the Colts are thinking of spending a 1st, 2nd, OR 3rd round pick on an O lineman, then they are really only giving up one extra pick to obtain a guy they know can do the job. The single pick could be a bust—AKA Ugoh—that the Colts would pay for for YEARS! And McNeill can start immediately and play well. He won’t need a couple years of seasoning to get up to speed.
This radio show host is a complete Dbag
He got this story from this
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/02/sportingnewscom-five-moves-that-should-be-made-before-the-draft/
Which is nothing more than pure speculation.
I
IMO
35 million, a 1st and a 3rd...
for a slightly above average player? No thank you.
At least Gaither has elite talent.
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slightly above average?
The guy is entering his 5th season and has been selected to two pro bowls (granted, as an alternate). And he has the intangibles that Gaither lacks (proven to be committed and dedicated, no injury problems). How do you figure that is “slightly above average?”
He might not have quite the upside that Gaither has, but at this point he has proven a lot more than Gaither and is much less of a risk. Either one is a huge upgrade to anybody the team currently has, or what we could get in the draft with the 31st pick.
And do you honestly believe Gaither’s contract would be any less than $35 million?
McNeill is as good or better than Gaither anyway.
The guy’s out of his mind
"A lot of times, Kenny, we have no idea what we're doing. But the DEFENSE doesn't know that we don't know what we're doing.....and that's next level." -Peyton Manning
What are you basing that on?
Could you tell me?
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If you must know....
McNeill’s credentials- 2x pro bowl selection, first team all american twice in college, has more experience with still plenty of good years left to protect Peyton for a long time. He helped make the brown/williams tandem at Auburn the most dynamic running duo of the past ten years, one of the best tandems ever (and yes, I know that Brown and Williams were insanely good and should get most of the credit, but you can’t run without a line). As a Charger, he was key in a dynamic run game (until LT started sucking) and the pass game. I absolutely hate the Chargers and would love to see this guy elsewhere, and would love it if it were for us.
Gaither’s credentials- he’s young, better than anyone we have now, also key in a great run game, and has big upside. That’s about it. Maybe my math’s a little shaky, but it seems to me McNeill wins out clearly. I would be pumped with either, but McNeill is clearly more proven. I’d be much more comfy giving up a first rounder for him than Gaither.
So what exactly are you basing your opinion on?
"A lot of times, Kenny, we have no idea what we're doing. But the DEFENSE doesn't know that we don't know what we're doing.....and that's next level." -Peyton Manning
“proven to be committed and dedicated, no injury problems”
It’s been reported here in SD that the two sides were close to a deal during TC in 2008 until the Chargers backed away when he hurt his neck. Thats why he’s wearing that giant neck roll in the picture above. Oh and the reason he fell to SD in the draft is because teams were scared off by a spinal condition he has.
by Natrone Bomb on Apr 4, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
He can pass block
That is about it. He only made the pro-bowls on name alone. He had a pretty good rookie season. That is it.
Joe Thomas, Jake Long, Jared Gaither, D’Brickashaw Ferguson, Andrew Whitworth, Ryan Clady, Max Starks,
All are AFC left tackles that are better than McNeill.
But lets look at the actual 2009 numbers here:
McNeill(on 959 snaps) gave up 6 sacks, 9 QB hits, and 23 QB pressures while being a below average run-blocker.
Gaither(on 828 snaps) gave up 4 sacks, 3 QB hits, and 6 QB pressures while being an above average run-blocker.
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So you're saying since Charlie Johnson gave up less sacks
he is the better OT? Peyton Manning is better than Philip Rivers. Much, MUCH, better. McNeill would not have to lock an end down for 30 seconds like he does with Rivers.
"A lot of times, Kenny, we have no idea what we're doing. But the DEFENSE doesn't know that we don't know what we're doing.....and that's next level." -Peyton Manning
Plus Rivers
tends to hold on to the ball longer. He’s more of a Big Ben.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Apr 4, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah Not sure he understands the Chargers offense
Adjust McNeills stats for the avg pass the team throws and it becomes apparent that he is one of the best LTs in the league.
Peypey release is so quick, he would be going to the HOF if he completed his career with the Colts
IMO
No it isn't
incorrect. Do you watch the games? Rivers hold onto the ball longer than say someone like Peyton or even Eli for that matter. Rivers scrambles about as much as Ben.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Apr 5, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow
Rivers scrambles about as much as Ben.
I just cannot comprehend how one could formulate this opinion. It’s mind boggling.
Backs away slowly
Its called
watching the games. I live in So Cal so often times I don’t have a choice.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Apr 5, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Try not to be condescending
When you’re so compeltely and utterly wrong.
I watch every game. Rivers absolutely does not scramble about as much as Ben. That’s a ridiculous statement.
LOL.
Yeah, it’s completely ridiculous.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Apr 5, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Career stats:
Roethlisberger: 228 attempts for 698 yards (that’s about a 3.1 YPC, if you’re interested) with 12 rushing TDs
Rivers: 139 attempts for 210 yards (1.5 YPC) with 2 rushing TDs
Big Ben scrambles not only more often, but far better than Rivers.
Yup, I'm the nut who believes Mark Loretta is a possible future Hall of Famer.
by StrangeBroP25 on Apr 5, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
How many sacks
do they both take? I’d guess Ben takes more.
Movie Quote of the Week: "He better be worth it. He better go home and cure a disease, or invent a longer-lasting light bulb."
In the last 4 seasons
Ben has been sacked 189 times with a low of 46.
Rivers has been sacked 99 times with a high of 27
You guys aren't seriously comparing the Steelers line to the Chargers?
That’s silly.
Rivers isn’t amazingly mobile, to be sure, but he needs a fair amount of time because he likes the bombs. He’s certainly not a Big Ben style scrambler, and he doesn’t have to be, because his OL is pretty solid.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Apr 7, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
No. I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth.
Charlie is not very good.
Yes, he gave up only 2 sacks, but that was only because of Peyton.
He also allowed 26 QB pressures.
The elite pass-protecting Left Tackles gave up less than 10 QB pressures.
------------------------------------------------------------
I'm just saying
if Peyton could make Charlie Johnson, who I agree with you is nowhere near all-pro level, look that good, imagine what he could do with a big body like McNeill?
"A lot of times, Kenny, we have no idea what we're doing. But the DEFENSE doesn't know that we don't know what we're doing.....and that's next level." -Peyton Manning
I think the lack of run game in
SD (if you can really call it that, ours was MUCH worse) was due more to LdT being injured. As I recall, Sproles ran over us pretty well in ’08.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Apr 4, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
What about in 2009?
Sproles averaged 3.7 ypc
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He was pretty much an every down back
until the end of the season. When LdT came in he had success – until the Jets. Sproles is too small to be an every down back. Little Bastahd.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Apr 4, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
But none of this matters.
It isn’t going to happen.
When your biggest free-agent signing in years is a kicker….you can sense a trend.
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This is a position of HUGE need and there's no guarantee Brown or Williams
will be there in round 1. We haven’t made any big free agent signings because we didn’t have to make them. This year, we may have to if we want to significantly upgrade the LT position. You need to think about the logic behind “trends” before you type.
"A lot of times, Kenny, we have no idea what we're doing. But the DEFENSE doesn't know that we don't know what we're doing.....and that's next level." -Peyton Manning
We NEEDED better DT play in 2009.
2007 and 2008 were awful in that effect.
By far the biggest need of the team, but we did not grab a free-agent DT. We drafted one in the second round.
You need to think before you type.
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McNeill would be the equivalent of a top 15-20 pick
maybe even higher. So, what….we give up our first pick for player as good as most high first round caliber linemen with already pro bowl caliber ability, and also give up our third round, which has not historically been Polian’s strongest round, aside from the obvious recent picks of Jerraud Powers and Phillip Wheeler.
Um……? GET THIS DONE. Get a pass rusher in the 2nd, or hell, if we’re comfortable getting FAs, sign Alex Brown, too, and then get a return specialist in the fourth or beyond (Arenas, if available, or Holliday late).
This would be a fantastic move. Our o-line would drastically look different, but in all liklihood, much better as well. We’ll all have to live with the bust that was ony-TAY goh-UTAY, but whatever. Water under bridge. Bring on McNeill. Let Donald and Joe run wild and give peyton a little more breathing room.
"A lot of times, Kenny, we have no idea what we're doing. But the DEFENSE doesn't know that we don't know what we're doing.....and that's next level." -Peyton Manning
But
He was a second rounder. We’re all acting like him and Gaither (um….5th round supplemental pick) were like first rounders with talent we’ll never see again. At some point, someone thought these guys both sucked enough to pass on them in the first. What makes us think this won’t happen again with tons of guys who could potentially fall to us? Seriously, it won’t be the end of the world if we can’t bring in a vet. There’s tons of talent out there and while Polian might not be the best at evaluating o-line talent, there’s guys out there who will be available in the mid-rounds who have the potential to be stars in this league. And if you want big, there are some big ones:
Tony Washington-6’7 315 Abilene Christian: Once thought of as a high riser with 2nd round potential. Now he’s falling in most mocks because it came out that he had sex with his own sister when both were teenagers. This is creepy, and makes me really uncomfortable, but he has no less star potential now than he did before the story broke, he’s just a much bigger bargain.
Sam Young 6’7 320 Notre Dame: Rising draft boards since the Senior Bowl, he’s no longer considered a slow run blocking specialist, but a potential starting RT with tons of experience who’s being projected in the mid rounds.
Jared Veldheer 6’9 320 Hillsdale: Stupidly athletic freak Veldheer, as much as we’re all scared of his bust potential, won’t be much of a risk from the mid 2nd to mid 3rd rounds, especially if we were considering taking on a huge contract and giving up 1st and 3rd rounders for similarly sized guys who were just as obscure four years ago (only they went to bigger schools, they just had similar draft position).
Anyway, there’s tons of options. No need to freak out and blow the wad on big vets.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
Come visit The Fantasy Ninjas. We'd love to hear from you.
Left tackles
take time to develop. Personally, I don’t want to wait to see that Lombardi go to Indy. I want it this year. Who even knows if there will be football in 2011?
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Apr 4, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually believe the opposite is true
I think if you have a good LT you know it pretty early. Granted, most LTs people think are going to be good are drafted really high, and this causes a high bust percentage.
But McNeill (again, a second rounder) made Pro Bowls in each of his first two seasons. If there’s no football in 2011, by the way, that’s just one more year everyone else will have to wait to try to win a Super Bowl anyway.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
Come visit The Fantasy Ninjas. We'd love to hear from you.
in response to McNeil falling to the second..
Like someone previously posted, he had a spinal cord condition and thats what scared teams off.
The chargers were pondering taking him with the 16th overall pick (which turned into Cromartie) and were amazed he was still there in the second.
Life is like riding a bicycle, to keep your balance, you must keep moving.-Einstein
Yeah AJ looked smart their
Too bad he took Paul Oliver in round 4 of the same supplemental draft that Gaither went in the 5th in.
IMO
reason he was a 2nd rounder
He has spinal stenosis, or a narrowing of the spinal cord. This has not proved to be a problem. Otherwise, he would have easily been a top 15 pick. Chargers got a steal with him in 2nd.
This is the same condition that
prevented Cooper Manning from playing even college ball. I’m curious about this. Thanks for the info.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Apr 5, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty expensive fix
All it takes is a somewhat serious injury and this fix for the OL puts the Colts back to square one, minus the draft picks.
I like the basic idea but I think the price is just too high.
This seems like a panic move to me and it’s premature.
The reason we are persuing big time players is
because Jim and Bill feel that they need to win one NOW. I feel that they figure that Peyton has only a few years left and want to get the best players around him as possible. I am feeling a sense of urgency from the front office. It could be very benificial in the short run but costly in the long run.
It's easy to accuse the Chargers of being cheap
When they have so many big RFA’s they need to resign and have recent signed Philip Rivers to a $92m contract. They have tendered several players with the 1st and 3rd conract. Some of which they’d possibily be looking to trade, some of which they want to lock up long term. McNeill most definitely falls into the latter.
The reason he hasn’t been offered that big contract has little to do with the Chargers penny-pinching and a lack of faith in him, but rather waiting until they have a better idea of who they want to sign long term for big money, who they’d rather let go or trade and who they are able to draft so they have a much better idea of the big picture going forward. They simply want to be better prepared before heading into negotations with all these players.
They absolutely do not want Brandyn Dombrowski or a rookie protecting Rivers’ blind side.
by gman87 on Apr 4, 2010 11:45 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Oh come on
McNeill is the left tackle, and arguably the best offensive lineman on the team. Who the hell else other than the left tackle on a passing offense-oriented football team are you going to re-sign long term? Darren Sproles? Nate Kaeding?
They’re being cheap. Smith either wants the guy or he doesn’t. It’s that simple. For four years, McNeill has protected the blindside of a QB who moves like an old lady in the pocket. Other than the QB, no one else on the entire friggin roster is more important than the left tackle.
McNeill is also a premiere, high-caliber player at LT. He knows this. If if a team like the Colts offers him 5 years at $35 milion, he will sign the offer sheet. Thus, the Colts would be dictating how much the Chargers would re-sign McNeill for if they wanted to.
Again, this whole thing is avoidable if the Chargers just sign the dude to a long-term deal. There is no cap! Thus, nothing should stop them from re-signing him to whatever he wants… unless Spanos is penny-pinching, which is a kinder, gentler way of saying he’s being cheap.
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They are being cheap in a certain respect
That goes without saying, but isnt the whole story
McNeil is 2nd in line for a big deal behind Gates. I have not clue why thats the priority list, but thats what has been said by the beat writer that acts as the Chargers GM mouth piece.
The amount of $ the Chargers are saving with this CBA non sense is huge compared with the club average, they have the best RFA class by far. At this point none of the RFAs have received deals because they actually welcome other clubs making them offers to give them the option of matching or the draft picks.
IMO
Second in line?
Why would you put an old, past-his-prime tight end ahead of your left tackle? That makes absolutely no sense.
Also, by treating key members of your club this way (only signing them to restricted tendors), it really sends a message that the Chargers just don’t give a crap about them. Rather than sign a player to what he is worth, you dangle him out there and hope someone else will offer something for him? Gee, if I was Marcus McNeill, I’d be kind of pissed.
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I didnt say it made sense
Of course the Chargers arent going to sign their players for what they are worth. You’re talking about an owner who made his money ripping off illegal aliens, while the federal government turned a blind eye. You really think he gives two fuks about making a couple of athletes play on one year deals?
IMO
LOL
Good points. Spanos is garbage.
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
Gates is a whole lot cheaper, and has said he would take a home-town discount.
Don’t believe this McNeill business for a second. It’s extremely fishy. If the Colts signed McNeill to any reasonable offer sheet, AJ Smith would just match it and thank the Colts for saving them all that negotiation effort.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Apr 5, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
They actually were about to sign him two years ago
I mean the contract had already been negotiated, and then he had to have neck surgery; so they pulled it. And now its going to cost them three times the dough to lock him up. But yes you are right, the Chargers arent cheap (at least not always); they are just simply waiting to see which of the high profile FAs they will end up keeping.
IMO
Can you guys please trade us your 1st round pick for Gaither?
My comments aren't random, you just can't think as fast as me....
I'm going to agree with the people above who offered the caveat "DON'T TRUST HACKSAW"
as well as those who believe the Chargers would sooner trade McNeill and those who think the Colts would be giving away too much. However… if the Colts made a big offer, the Chargers would have to match it, which could cripple their cap space (we spent $7 million on a gadget back already). Interesting means of weakening a big-time conference rival.
Yup, I'm the nut who believes Mark Loretta is a possible future Hall of Famer.
What cap space?
There’s no cap this year. Sproles’ $7 million has nothing to do with next year’s cap, either, assuming there is one (not a safe assumption).
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Apr 5, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I am an dumbs.
But still, there’s a certain amount we’re willing to spend. $35 mil? Yikes.
Yup, I'm the nut who believes Mark Loretta is a possible future Hall of Famer.
by StrangeBroP25 on Apr 5, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
$7M/year for a franchise LT? Good money, but not scary.
If there were a cap, it would be about $2.5M per player now, and $3M per player per season over 5 years. Dropping 2-3x that for a franchise LT is nothing to freak out over.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Apr 5, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Now, that's what they're paying Sproles. THAT is good for a "yikes" from me.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Apr 5, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
From an SD fan
Nobody in SD pays any serious attention to Hacksaw. He’s a total blow hard, bs’er. That’s the truth. He was fired by the Chargers when he was their radio voice years ago, and he’s got a serious h#rd on for them ever since. McNeill is a cornerstone player for the Chargers and he’s going nowhere. Especially he’s not going to our #1 conference rival. So you all can just quit getting so hot and bothered. It’d be a great trade for the Colts, which is why it’s not happening.
by hankster on Apr 5, 2010 12:23 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Rec. Absolutely correct on all counts.
This is like that April Fools’ Day piece on BFTB about the Chargers trading Rivers to Denver for Brandon Marshall and two draft picks. It’s just crazy talk: there’s no way McNeill is going out the door for less than 1000 points of draft value, no matter how much funny money it costs the Chargers.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Apr 5, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
No way he’s going out for more than 1,000 either: I’m just pointing out that the Chargers wouldn’t consider that deal for any longer than it takes to draw in a breath to laugh.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Apr 5, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Perfect complement to Polian's regular style
I love the idea of getting McNeil. At the 31st pick, there are less “sure things” in the draft and obviously more risk. Hell, Tony Ugoh is a perfect example of the risk in the draft.
I love Polian’s style of building through the draft because it usually ensures a less painful “rebuilding” phase as older talent retires or moves on.
That said, every once in a while, teams need to take a chance on a proven talent. McNeil is a perfect case. He’s still young enough to have an impact throughout the life of a 5-year contract, he’s a top 5 player at his position, and the Colts would give up late picks not early picks in each round.
I also think the under-rated part of the acquisition would be the impact on the running game. Sure, McNeil is a good pass blocker, but he’s also a very good run blocker and has the size to lead on power-running plays, where the Colts struggle.
Ryan
Front Office Fans &
http://sports-opinionated.com
Don't hold your breath.
The reason this deal sounds so attractive is that it’s too good to be true. McNeill would probably want more than $7M to jump ship: if he took that deal, AJS would laugh and match it, rubbing his hands with glee at saving so much money on his franchise OT. Admitting so soon that Ugoh is a bust would also reflect badly on Polian: two firsts and a third for what’s supposed to be a sure thing pick?
Unless… and this is a big unless… there’s something else going on that we don’t know about. If AJ is considering trading Sproles and #40 for a mid-first (like Seattle @ #14), then all of a sudden it makes sense, as the Chargers would take a top LT in the draft, saving money and probably not falling too much on the left side of the OL, while moving their #40 pick up ahead of the Chiefs, improving their odds of getting two guys they really want, like Ryan Mathews, Terrence Cody and Taylor Mays. I don’t see it happening, but it’s possible.
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders!
by Neoplatonist Bolthead on Apr 5, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
At the risk of no one caring anymore
The site that was linked earlier as being the probably beginning of the rumor has addressed it.
Last week, we included in a “five moves that should be made” item for SportingNews.com that the Colts should sign Chargers left tackle Marcus McNeill to an offer sheet. Apparently, the item somehow morphed into a report that the Colts planned to do so….We’ve since learned — and confirmed — that the Colts have had zero contact with McNeill.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/09/colts-have-had-no-contact-with-marcus-mcneill/
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