Colts defensive line the fourth best in football?
I'm not a fan of Yahoo! Sports Jason Cole, and I've made that clear in many previous articles. It's nothing personal. I just find him intellectually lazy and woefully ignorant of how football is played despite his extensive work covering the sport over a period of 15-plus years. He also seems to have a near pathological dislike for Peyton Manning. Maybe Big P told him to "f@ck off" after an interview request several years ago, and Jason has held a grudge ever since. Or, maybe it's because Jason spent too much time working for a south Florida newspaper, absorbing the now hilarious "Peyton can't win in Florida" banter that infected sports journalism world during the early part of Big P's career. Who knows.
What I do know is that anyone who thinks Ben Roethlisberger is a better QB than Peyton Manning is not someone who should be taken seriously, let alone paid real money to write about football. My 2 cents.
However despite Jason's often bizarre tracks of thought when it comes to evaluating football and NFL players, it is nice to see that he values something related to the Indianapolis Colts: Their d-line. In his off-season rankings series (aka, something for Jason to do in order to justify his salary during the "dead" time), Jason ranked the Colts as the fourth best defensive front in the NFL.
I wasn't quite sure whether or not I agreed with Jason on this point. I mean, I'm about as homer as it gets (and unlike most paid "journalists," I'm more than happy to admit my bias), but even I don't necessarily think the Colts have a better d-line than teams like the Patriots, Steelers, and Cowboys. For Cole, the reason the Colts rank ahead of these teams is because he is not counting people like DeMarcus Ware as "lineman." They are linebackers, no different than, say, Clint Session or Brian Urlacher.
And thus, with one slight caveat, Cole's d-line rankings become pretty much worthless.
I realize he has to write something during the off-season, but Jason should, at least TRY to make an interesting article using rankings. Why not include players like Ware, Joey Porter, and Calvin Pace as part of the d-line evaluation for certain NFL teams? What's the differecne between a 3-4 rush linebacker and a 4-3 rush end?
The stance. That's it.
Rush linebackers in most 3-4 defenses are not valued for their coverage skills. Their job is to rush the passer from a stand-up position, not a three-point stance (ala Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Jared Allen, etc.). Thus, in essence, they have about as much in common with coverage linebackers as wide receivers do with running backs.
Also, if Cole is only listing down linemen as real "d-linemen," then it's insulting to list the friggin NY Giants d-line ahead of the Colts. Their d-line was awful in 2009. Absolutely awful. Osi Umenyiora is done (working with the second unit now), Mathias Kiwanuka is over-rated (3 total sacks last season), and rookie Jason Pierre-Paul is a major project player. This line was routinely blown off the ball in 2009, and their pass rush was non-existent. Trust me, I watched many Giants games last year (almost as many Colts games), and to call their d-line better than Indy's is a piss poor job of evaluation.
Hell, I'd almost rank the Rams d-line ahead of the Giants. At least the Rams hustle.
But, whatever. It's Jason Cole. At some point, I'll stop torturing myself by reading his columns. If I had to rank my top lines, I'd have the Colts in the top 10, but with the Cowboys, Ravens, and Steelers ahead of the Colts.
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True the Giants D line was very bad in 2009 but do we know if the rankings were for this last year alone?
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by TheAngelsColts on Jun 29, 2010 12:07 PM EDT reply actions
He does say that they were bad last year.
I don’t agree with it either.
BTW, I have no issue with ranking the d-line’s this way. I guess the criteria that you are judging a 3-4 DL and a 4-3 DL are different, so they are hard to compare, but technically Cole is correct in his judgement.
EVH+DLR=BFFs........ God I Hope So!!
Osi is done?
That’s a shame, he was absolutely beastly before he blew his knee. He was supposed to anchor their D-line after Strahan left, to lose that for good is a pretty heavy blow.
This is a joke right?
Hell, I’d almost rank the Rams d-line ahead of the Giants. At least the Rams hustle.
Rankings are stupid – they don’t hold any value because everyone can interpret them different ways. They’re just there b/c everybody loves to see who is going to be #1 this week, month or year.
The Giants had a bad year, doesn’t mean they won’t bounce back and be good this year? I don’t think they’re better than the Colts but they’re not going to be as bad as they were last year.
I also have no problem with the 3-4. 4-3 distinction. If he’s being consistent with it, what’s the problem?
"Rolled up aces over kings. Check-raising stupid tourists and taking huge pots off of them. Playing all-night high-limit Hold'em at the Taj, "where the sand turns to gold." Stacks and towers of checks I can't even see over."
Eh, it's Jason Cole, what do you expect.
He rated the Pats 10th and then as much as said, that Wilfork will be bloated, Warren was “aging” and the line is in serious decline. Not arguing the rating (what’s the point?), just arguing that with all the bad things he said, he rated them tenth.
Seriously there are 22 worse lines than one with a bloated NT and a support staff that is aging and in decline? Man, must suck to be them if the Pats are so bad. He made 29 year old Ty Warren sound like he was on geritol. Find me a football player that isn’t aging. Ok, I know – when they’re under 25 they’re “maturing”, when they’re older they’re “aging”.
Comparing a 30 line to a 40 line without looking at the rest of the front seven is asinine. Most, but not all, 30 lines are two gap with no penetration. Most, but not all, 40 lines are one gap – those guys get better stats. That still doesn’t tell the whole story because a porous secondary and a QB with a quick release will negate a good pass rush (see Manning, Peyton) leaving good players without good stats.
Cole spewed some words, got his paycheck, and moved on. Move along; nothing to see here.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 29, 2010 1:33 PM EDT reply actions
I agree with your post.
With so many teams switching to 3-4 and with all of the hybrid looks and zone blitzes, I think it would be better to compare front 7s.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
Let me premise this by saying I'm not apologizing for Cole
When he said defensive line, the first thought in my head was Defensive Ends and Defensive Tackles, but then again, I am sort of a nub like that. You did bring up a good point though, any 4-3 “defensive line,” is going to be more effective than a 3-4 scheme because they’ve got an extra player, and in a 3-4 it tends to be more of 3 DTs and 2 standing Ends, and DTs tend to have lower sack totals than the ends.
I can’t really say much about other teams because my time really was not such that I could objectively look at many other teams during the season, but I would say this. Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis…. I know alot of media types don’t have a high opinion of Mookie or Muir, but they were very stable and solid at DT last year, and when you combine Solid DTs with THE BEST DEs you are gonna have a great line overall. That would be my only reasoning for putting our front 4 higher up.
All that said though, Mathis and Freeney do very little against the Run, especially Freeney, and our DTs can’t get after the QB, so we have a tale of two sides here. Our DTs provide nearly all of our front 4 run support, and our DEs provide nearly all of our QB pressure, and that is why a wildcat offense can control the ball 45 minutes during a game.
"I shall not fear. Fear is the Mind killer. Fear is the little death that leads to total obliteration. I will face my fear and let it pass through me. When the fear is gone, there shall be nothing. Only I shall remain."
-Frank Herbert "Dune" (1965)
great points.... :)
If you see my smilieys, think of E.M.H. - our COLTs King of Smileys!
by Manning4ever on Jun 29, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with your main point BBS
That this is strictly dead-time internet-fill, with Cole just throwing something out there because there is NOTHING going on. It will be long forgotten by Training Camp (what, 4 more weeks?)
Keep the faith!
Not nearly soon enough for the football starved.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 29, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
This ^^
"I shall not fear. Fear is the Mind killer. Fear is the little death that leads to total obliteration. I will face my fear and let it pass through me. When the fear is gone, there shall be nothing. Only I shall remain."
-Frank Herbert "Dune" (1965)
Luckily the World Cup is around this year to provide some variety
I couldn’t imagine what this summer would be like with no World Cup and my shitty as Diamondbacks playing the way they are. I love ’em, but is it football season yet?
Blogging about my summer at a Chinese law firm.
NEW BLOG, as my original one is blocked by the Great Firewall.
http://ajinshanghai.wordpress.com/
Jared Allen??
When you start with the best defensive end in the league (Jared Allen)
Um…..no. Allen posted 7.5 sacks against the Packers (14.5 sacks on the season) and was spotty the rest of the season. Hard to rate a player this high when the most of the stats they accumulate is against a team with a less than solid O-line and a QB who holds the ball for a lifetime. He also disappeared in the NFC Championship game. I’d be more concerned with the Williams boys in the middle, than with Allen on the edge.
Honestly, the Colts D-line is very solid and does more than enough to get the job done. QBs around the league fear Freeney and Mathis, and lest we forget how we shut down the #1, 5, and 6 ranked rushing teams? It starts with the D-line.
by BlueEv on Jun 29, 2010 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I like mountain dew
Blogging about my summer at a Chinese law firm.
NEW BLOG, as my original one is blocked by the Great Firewall.
http://ajinshanghai.wordpress.com/
mountain dew for me is a mountain don't
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 30, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
i hate to say that....
somehow i like this Pats fan……![]()
until…….
If you see my smilieys, think of E.M.H. - our COLTs King of Smileys!
by Manning4ever on Jun 30, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Like your smileys, though.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Jun 30, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
haha..... thanks to EMH....
and if you get to know me more, you may like me more… aside from…… (fill in the blanks….)
If you see my smilieys, think of E.M.H. - our COLTs King of Smileys!
by Manning4ever on Jun 30, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions

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