Polian: No new deals for Reggie Wayne and Robert Mathis
by Brad Wells on Jun 9, 2010 9:29 AM EDT
in Colts News
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PrintThe Colts President, Bill Polian, throws down the gauntlet regarding the contracts for star players Reggie Wayne and Robert Mathis:
"What I told both representatives was that given the current status of both our budget and the labor negotiations, it is not possible to do anything at this point," Polian said on The Sirius Blitz. "I recognize that they are both very good players, that they are great guys, that we respect them highly, that we value their contributions, and when it's time to do that, when it's propitious to do that, when it is possible to do it, we will."
Translation: Don't expect a new contract in 2010, gents.
The source article for the quote above comes from NFL.com, graciously brought to everyone's attention by coltsfan723's FanShot. In the article, it seems Polian specifically refers to Mathis and Wayne. I see no mention of Antoine Bethea, who is the only player on the roster with a legitimate reason to be pissed about his contract situation. Bethea is one of the best safeties in all of football, and the tender the Colts offered him is peanuts compared to what other top NFL safeties make.
The article tells us that Polian and the Colts view Peyton Manning's new contract as the higher priority. Like Wayne and Mathis, Manning clearly wants to make more money. Unlike Wayne and Mathis, Manning attended OTAs and the mandatory mini-camp.
So, to put it bluntly, nothing was accomplished by Mathis and Wayne holding out from OTAs and mini-camp, except creating an unnecessary distraction and, possibly, stunting the growth of the team by not spending valuable time with new teammates like Jerry Hughes and Blair White. Polian has, essentially, told both Wayne and Mathis to shut up, lace up, and get to work.
The next mandatory event scheduled on the calendar is the Colts 2010 Training Camp at Anderson University on August 1st. Will Reggie and Robert holdout from that? Polian doesn't think so:
"I don't think (Wayne) will stay away from training camp because there is a rule this year in the uncapped year that if you do not come in by Aug. 10, you get an extra year tacked onto your contract," Polian said. "So, that is the last thing he wants. He's got two years to run on his contract. So, I presume he will be in."
Uh, yeah. I think it's pretty safe to say Reggie will show up, because that uncapped year rule is a pretty good incentive not to hold out. The status for Robert Mathis and Antoine Bethea is less certain. What is certain is the Colts have sent a message to all parties involved, saying that no new contracts are planned until the labor situation is resolved. Mike Florio thinks that the Colts are possibly using the "labor situation" as an excuse:
So why would the Colts or the Jets fear paying fair market value to their most important players simply because the specific rules for 2011 and beyond have yet to be determined?
The easy explanation comes from the possibility that teams have decided, either on their own (which is permissible) or jointly (which isn't) that they will hold down spending until a new deal is done, in order to put maximum pressure on the players.
If it's the latter, it's collusion. And at some point the union should be prepared to aggressively explore the possibility that teams have decided to rein in spending for 2010 in the hopes of making it harder for players to take a stand in 2011.
We're not saying that collusion is occurring. We're only saying that the superficial evidence at least justifies the union looking into the possibility that it is.
Whatever the reason, with Polian's ultimatum (of sorts), the ball is now in Reggie's, Robert's and Antoine's court. The expectation now is that they better show up to training camp, and they better be ready. If they aren't, then other players like Anthony Gonzalez, Jerry Hughes, and Melvin Bullitt should (in theory) have an opportunity to win the starting jobs occupied last year by Wayne, Mathis, and Bethea, respectively. If Jerry Hughes shows up to camp in better shape than Mathis, and looks better on the practice field than Mathis, how can he not have an opportunity at Mathis' job?
In the end, I think all parties will show up to camp and perform quite well. However, Polian's comments make it clear that the Colts have no interest in re-negotiating the contracts of certain players right now. The next move by those players could make a big impact on the 2010 season before it even starts.
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Collusion
We’re not saying that collusion is occurring. We’re only saying that the superficial evidence at least justifies the union looking into the possibility that it is.
Good luck getting to court with that. Bell Atlantic Co. v. Twombly, 550 U.S. 544 (2007).
It could just be that they are worried about paying players too much then coming in way over next years cap and having the team explode. Or, the owners may not want to spend too much because then the team that spends the most will just push for the cap to be at their level making a salary cap useless.
There are a lot of reasons why they may not want to just pay whatever amount a player demands which is why there is a heightened pleading standard than just Rule (8)(a)(2).
Just to expand on Bell v. Twombly:
Bell Atlantic Corp. v. Twombly, 550 U.S. 544 (2007), was a decision of the Supreme Court of the United States involving anti-trust law and civil procedure. Authored by Justice David Souter, it established that parallel conduct, absent evidence of agreement, is insufficient to sustain an anti-trust action under § 1 of the Sherman Act. It also heightened the pleading requirement for Federal civil cases, requiring that plaintiffs include enough facts in their complaint to make it plausible — not merely possible or conceivable — that they will be able to prove facts to support their claims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Atlantic_Corp.v.Twombly
So in short, there must be arguable evidence of collusion, not merely the appearance of disparate entities moving in the same direction. And that makes Florio’s post somewhat surprising: Wasn’t he a lawyer by profession? If so, it’s surprising that he didn’t grasp or mention the distinction. I’d easily give any other writer a pass for missing it, but you’d guess Florio would be the exact sort of writer to pick up on that.
To be fair, possibly he does understand the distinction and is calling for an investigation to determine if there’s any further evidence anyway. That, I’d condede, would be an educated opinion. It’s just that his line "… superficial evidence at least justifies the union looking into the possibility " doesn’t make it seem as though he’s paying attention to the threshold; it implies that he’s suggesting a digging into things merely on the appearance of collusion. And “appearance” would fall short of the standard.
Feh. Maybe he’ll clarify at some point.
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by E.M.H. on Jun 9, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
all u had to do was
click on this heading " Wayne and Mathis shouldn’t expect new deals anytime soon "
posted 17 hrs ago to read the entire article the quotes are taken from , just do to main page , see this main topic and click on heading to read enmtire post by coltsfan723
Please Read My 1st paragraph of profile to realize my multiple disabilities making it hard to type correctly if there are many typos etc
Here's the thing that jumped out at me...
“I don’t think (Wayne) will stay away from training camp because there is a rule this year in the uncapped year that if you do not come in by Aug. 10, you get an extra year tacked onto your contract,” Polian said. “So, that is the last thing he wants. He’s got two years to run on his contract. So, I presume he will be in.”
Is he sure of that? I’ve kinda had it in my head that Reggie’s motivation here is to get longer contract; not necessarily a bigger (read more money per year) contract.
He may… but i get the sense that what he’s really after is to avoid what happened to Marvin. I think he really wants to retire as a Colt and would like to have another 5 yr contract. If he gets more money per year, that’s great, but i think it’s the longevity he’s really after.
Of course, I still believe in the Tooth Fairy, sooo…
Careful what you wish for... "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." Gerald Ford, 38th US president
From a player’s perspective, what is the point of just a longer contract? They aren’t guaranteed anyway.
maybe a longer and at least partically guaranteed contract??
guarante\ed to what extent I have no clue…. but definitely will be nice in Wayne’s situation. Of course having a shorter but larger contract may have the same effect….. so I don’t know. I do “think” that what transpired for Marvin is on Wayne’s mind….
If you see my smilieys, think of E.M.H. - our COLTs King of Smileys!
Like M4 said... partially guaranteed
I’m just trying to put myself in Reggie’s place. I wanna play… i wanna retire a Colt… I just watched Marvin, one of the best ever, sit and wait for a phone that never rings.
I just want the team to make me a Colt for the next 5-6 yrs so i don’t have to go through what Marvin did. I’ll play for the same money; i just want more time.
Careful what you wish for... "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." Gerald Ford, 38th US president
But Marivn
could have retired a Colt. The Colts wanted him to restructure his contract (read: take less money) with the contract length being the same. He refused, so they released him.
Stampede Blue post regarding release
NFL.com report
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
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by peytonsthebest on Jun 9, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the contract would have run
through the 2010 season. He would have been 38 – that’s old enough to retire, imo.
"I throw, you catch. It's NOT that hard!"
Peyton Manning, SNL, 2007
by peytonsthebest on Jun 9, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
yep, you are right....
so Reggie could have agreed to a re-structuring at that time and opt to remain a Colt. Maybe he wants a long contract like the one Marvin has, just that he may have handled the situation a little differently…. or put in different terms etc etc. We are all not NFL contract experts of GM so we can only conjecture….. :)
If you see my smilieys, think of E.M.H. - our COLTs King of Smileys!
by Manning4ever on Jun 10, 2010 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions
What are you talking about? The years are never guaranteed. You can get guaranteed money in the form of a signing bonus, but you can’t be guaranteed time. You can be cut at any time. It doesn’t matter how many years you have left on your contract.
hmm..... a longer contract will in some way keep him as a Colt for a considerably
longer time until he gets cut. We are only guessing here, and don’t know for sure…. he may just want a longer contract, pure and simple…. so he can retire a Colt… since his current contract expires 2011 and he will be about 34, old for a receiver…. anyhow, we are only thinking out loud here.
If you see my smilieys, think of E.M.H. - our COLTs King of Smileys!
by Manning4ever on Jun 10, 2010 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions
no need to be rude
i’m just speculating how i might feel
Careful what you wish for... "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." Gerald Ford, 38th US president
Are the Colts really expecting Bethea to sign a tender ?
Although with the 30% rule that may be the only way he can play this year.
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by LV Steelers Fan on Jun 9, 2010 12:32 PM EDT reply actions
I agree that those players deserve a new contract. both reggie and robert probably feel that with aging their window in the colts (and in the league) to make some money is closing, so the want to make some extra cash right now. But that does no mean that they can forget professionalism for a second and behave like kids.
ask for a new contract, but honor your obligations with the organization and with the fans.
by glassprisioner on Jun 9, 2010 12:46 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
DZ wrote a great recap
of this from the player perspective. All three holdouts make perfect sense from their end, Bethea’s especially. If Antoine signs his tender and then there’s a work stoppage next year, he’s done. He’ll never make big dollars. Reggie and Mathis have decent gripes mostly just because of their ages, but at least they’ve had big paydays. Bethea hasn’t. Not even close.
That said, he also acknowledges that the players have no leverage whatsoever. What’s fair to them and what’ll actually happen are two entirely different things.
The Colts don’t seem to have a replacement lined up for Bethea though, so it’s still in their best interest to get him signed. But it might not be worth quite the contract he’d get in FA to them. Something in between should eventually get it done though.
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